Dr. Rosen Rosen’s latest for Fox Sports openly ponders the question that’s been on most of our minds for most of the day: whether or not the Jays will deal one of their catchers. Specifically, JP Arencibia, who he says “is the most likely to be moved — and the Jays previously have talked about him in trades for pitchers such as Tampa Bay Rays right-hander Wade Davis and New York Mets left-hander Jon Niese, major-league sources say.”

Now, that’s not exactly earth-shattering news– Anthopoulos, as we’ve long heard, talks to everybody about everybody.

“He’s in the middle of everything,” says Josh Johnson’s agent, Matt Sosnick, in Brendan Kennedy’s excellent Anthpoulos profile in the Toronto Star. “When it comes to turning over stones, he’s an animal. I bet he makes 20 calls to one, compared to some other GMs.”

So, perhaps its nothing to get too worked up about, but the names involved certainly make sense. Or, at least, Niese’s does.

Davis seemed to find a new lease on life in 2012, working out of the bullpen– the shorter stints allowing him to throw harder than he had in years previous– which is great for his career, but doesn’t really make him the kind of return the Jays would be looking for if they dealt Arencibia. I mean, Davis was more valuable– per fWAR– in 70 innings for the Rays last year than in the 184 he pitched for them as a starter in 2011.

Niese, on the other hand, makes plenty of sense: worth more than five wins of the the last two years, 190 innings pitched in 2012, 3.40 ERA, 3.80 FIP, 3.64 xFIP, struck out 20% of the batters he faced and walked a shade over 6%, and he’s cost controlled, making just $3-million in 2013 on a $25.5-million deal signed last spring, which escalates yearly to $9-million in 2016, with a $10-million club option in the year following.

Of course, all of those are excellent reasons for the Mets to want to keep Niese around, as a core part of their rotation with RA Dickey, Matt Harvey, Johan Santana (for now), and eventually Zack Wheeler and Jeurys Familia. But with Harvey and Familia having already debuted in the Majors last year, and top prospect Wheeler slated for the club’s Triple-A affiliate– now in the dreaded Las Vegas– maybe the Mets will be inclined to roll with the kids.

That said, Rosenthal figures “the Jays might need to offer more than Arencibia to acquire such a pitcher, but aren’t necessarily eager to make that type of move.”

That’s because of the whole d’Arnaud thing, of course, but… uh, yeah, I totally make that deal, assuming that whatever additional piece is needed is reasonable.

Right?

Comments (279)

  1. Niese or davis dont really excite me. They seem more like #4 starters at best. I would be much more interersted in a deal with texas for holland or ogando. Those two have more upside.

    • Agreed. If you’re going to trade JPA, go bigger and make it worth it.

    • I’d like to point out that Holland is massively overrated on these forums, and I still can’t figure out why. He had a HR/9 in 2012 of 1.55 on the road, and again over 1.0 in 2011. Only once did he have it under 1.0 in his career, and that one time was in a 57-inning season.

      Ogando is the better choice, but he didn’t start last year. JPA for a reliever is kinda.. dumb.

      • It has everything to do with their stuff. Both were also fantastic in 2011 and both are young enough to still get better (especially in Holland’s case).

  2. I wouldn’t trade Arencibia for either Niese or Davis. Neither are definite upgrades over Happ. Better off just keeping him if that’s the best they’re getting in trade.

    • Ogando for jpa + would be really good trade

    • Agree. For me the book is still out on Niese as I’ve stated a few times over the last couple of weeks. Though to be fair I think there’s more upside in Niese than in Happ. I’d be in no hurry to move JPA if Rogers would be so nice as to let me sign McCarthy, Haren or Marcum.

      That said, if I was the Mets and I saw just how strong the Nats and Braves are right now and likely for next year as well, I’d be moving Dickey and keeping the guys I have under control for multiple years. Control of JPA for 4 years would suit that strategy far more than Dickey for this year and next.

    • Niese is a pretty clear upgrade on Happ.

      Last year:
      Niese: 190 IP, 3.40 ERA, 3.80 FIP, 3.64 xFIP, 2.4 fWAR
      Happ: 144 IP, 4.79 ERA, 4.01 FIP, 3.92 xFIP, 1.8 fWAR

      Over two years:
      Niese: 347 IP, 3.86 ERA, 3.60 FIP, 3.48 xFIP, 5.1 fWAR
      Happ: 301 IP, 5.08 ERA, 4.36 FIP, 4.27 xFIP, 2.1 fWAR

      • Happ also played for Houston. Anyone would play like shit knowing they will top out at 60 wins

      • Yeah, if you think Niese can repeat that kind of performance in the AL East in a hitter’s park as opposed to Citi Field. I’m not so sure myself based on what I’ve seen out of him.

        I’d rather just keep the starting catcher and sign a Marcum type for #5 (if you’re not content with Happ, though I pretty much am).

        • Fair points, and while I can’t claim to have looked at it before you said so, turns out Niese’s road peripherals have been considerably better than Happ’s each of the last two years as well.

          I do believe he’s a tangible upgrade– and not just an upgrade on your #5, because slotting Happ back a peg gives you a massive upgrade on your #6, as well.

          • I’ll admit that I’ve never been a fan of Niese. His stuff is just underwhelming. Despite the good peripherals, I’ve always felt that wouldn’t survive as well against better competition in more offensive parks.

            He’d probably be better than Happ, but I’d just as well just sign somebody else (or just sign depth) and save the potential JPA trade for something that would provide a more significant upgrade elsewhere on the roster.

        • +1

          Bring Marcum home. If Marcum is your 5th starter you have a world series calibre pitching rotation.

          It would give the Jays insurance in case any starter went down with injury.

      • Another way to think about it is that Niese isn’t as much an upgrade over Happ as he is an upgrade over Jenkins or whoever the 6th pitcher would otherwise be. Given a reasonable expectation of injuries (>20% of starter innings pitched) you’re looking at effectively a 6 man rotation over the course of a season.

    • You’re nuts if you think Happ is anywhere near the pitcher Niese is.

      • Yup, the mets would want jpa maybe for the riccardi factor in a package for niese

      • Yeah. Like I’ve been saying, Laffey has been better than Happ the last 2 years if you look at things from an ERA+ perspective.

        http://tinyurl.com/c7m3ax7

        Laffey doesn’t play out so well with FIP but again that’s an estimator and not something I like to use to measure actual results. ERA- is FanGraphs versions of ERA+ and in this case a number bigger than 100 is bad. All 3 haven’t been so hot the last 2 years. As far as FIP goes, at least Happ isn’t that far off from Niese for 2013 predictions.

        • I don’t know if you quite have a handle on this “estimator” business.

          • I believe I do. I really believe a lot of people misuse FIP and other estimators when they are discussing past performances. Again don’t get me wrong, I like them just fine if we’re talking about who is likely to do better in the future but I find that people tie past performance and FIP together without making the proper distinctions. It’s all about context. Using FIP for multiple years worth of data is also another example of how it is misused imo.

            The fact that stats like FIP totally neglect that pitchers pitch to contact on purpose and then penalize them for doing so is a huge oversight imo.

          • What are we talking about, if not who is more likely to do better in the future?

            Of course, more importantly, that’s not really what’s meant by “estimator.” These stats are attempts to be as context neutral as possible, which is why, even with inherent flaws, they’re generally much better.

    • completely agree. Arencibia for a #4 SP (or #3 on a bad team) is a terrible trade. If the Jays need to give up more than JPA for a middle of the rotation SP, I’d hang up the phone

      • What the hell do you possibly think Arencibia gets you?

        • If he doesn’t get you more than a potential minor upgrade on your #5, there’s not much reason to trade him right now.

        • a #2 on a bad team or a #3 on a good team. How many 20 HR/70 RBI catchers are out there? How many of them can hit .295 with RISP?

          • lol any more useless stats you want to throw out there?

          • Batting average with RISP is so Buck and Tabby. You had better bring better info than that son.

          • Batting average with RISP is so Buck and Tabby. You had better bring better info than that son.

          • Wow rbis and risp in the same post….ur stupidity is impressive

          • “How many of them can hit .295 with RISP?” is one of the funnier things I’ve seen written here in a while.

            Talk about mining a guy’s stats to find something with which to hang your hat.

          • Maybe avg., rbi’s, etc…aren’t given much importance here, but I would have to argue that many in the baseball world still value those statistical measures. Why did Miguel Cabrera win MVP over Mike Trout??

        • Arencibia on his own doesnt get you a mid rotation starter. Arencibia + a decent prospect or reliever does.

      • Don’t forget how bad the team played after losing both Bautista and Arencibia. Any idea how much their ERA spiked with Mathis getting regular starts?

      • You do realize JPA isn’t that good right? A solid number 3 for JPA is a great trade and if you think the jays are gonna get more than that for JPA you are fooling yourself

    • It’s crazy how valuable people think JPA is. The guy does one thing above average and many things below average. If you could STEAL Niese for JPA straight up…. YOU DO IT!! Then try to get off the hpone before you start laughing.

      My favourite are the people that think JPA could go to first. His bat is brutal as a first bagger.

      • yea people are overvaluing JPA for sure – I tried looking up similar catchers traded at his age with a similar skillset and it was hard, because he’s already 27 (in a month)

        Chris Ianetta was 28 when he was traded from the Rox to LA for Tyler Chatwood. That year he put 3.1 WAR,, his best season to date. He doesnt slug as hard as JP but he’s better on base and they have similar batting avg.’s. Big difference is Ianetta was a free agent in 2012 if I can recall correctly, whereas JPA’s obviously got a number of years to go before that.

        So considering Niese would be more valuable than a Chatwood, because JPA is “potentially” better than an Ianetta and under contract for longer, I don’t see how a JPA-Niese swap is that outside the realm of realism based on a similarly aged/skilled catcher

        • Markets aren’t static though and after Martins new contract it is definitely a SELLERS market for catchers this off season!

    • Wow.

      An average catcher for a #3 cost controlled starter is pretty alright.

      Especially when you have the heir apparent at Catcher with very little SP depth and Johnson only signed thru 2013.

      I’ve always liked Niese and wouldn’t give him up for just JPA. I’d want a pitching prospect to go with him.

      If I’m the Mets i would start with JPA and Syndergaard for Niese and work my way down the Jays SP prospects.

  3. If only I could say what I know douchers!

    #NOTGOINGANYWHERE

  4. Seems like anything can happen with AA as GM. The thing about trading for a pitcher is that it will almost certainly create a hole somewhere else. Even trading JPA creates a hole until d’Arnaud is ready. I think it’s only worth while if it is a really good pitcher, i.e. Dickey. Instead of trading JPA+ for Niese the Jays could just sign Marcum and probably be better off with a starting catcher and #3/4 type guy.

    • Maybe they sign a backup like soto in the case jpa isn’t ready and platoon him with buck?

    • They have two starting catchers who are not terrible bets to be not much worse, and Niese has been pretty clearly better than Marcum both this year and over the last two, at least.

  5. Anybody know how Niese did against the AL east? Given that Buerhle didn’t fare that we’ll against the east in the past, I would think a priority would be to get someone who can hold the Jays in the game against the east teams

  6. Niese
    innings FIP
    191 3.80

    Happ
    144 4.01

    I appreciate the depth, but the upgrade from niese to happ, and yes it is an upgrade, is not worth jpa. Especially in a world where russell martin gets 2 years 17 million

    • The upgrade looks far bigger when you look beyond just the last year.

      • out of context yes..

        but happ turned a corner towards the middle of last year, a mechanical change allowed for more zip. Which was part of the reason the jays went after him in the first place.

        I would much rather sign mccarthy or haren or something on a 2 year, and save JPA for something a bit more worthwhile when TDA comes up mid season

      • I just think JPA should be saved so that TDA can get some swings in buffalo first, get back in game shape.

        holes might open up during the season, it could still be the rotation, but just in case, if he’s your next chip to be moved, there is no real rush especially during the free agent season.

        • Buck, back in this park, could certainly be better than he was last year. He was better on the road, at least.

          For a couple months, it’s certainly a passable scheme.

          • Agreed. I suggested that having Buck and Wilson start the year until d’Arnaud is past his super 2 cutoff point a couple of weeks ago. Of course now that Wilson has been non-tendered that option is on hold for now. However, just because he’s non-tendered, it doesn’t mean the Jays still can’t sign him to a contract.

    • Happ’s FIP only dropped that low because of a sudden spike in K rate (partially due to working out of the bullpen) and a Gb% way above his career rate. Unless he suddenly became a much better and significantly different pitcher (he didn’t) he’ll regress back to the pitcher he’s always been.

      Meanwhile Niese performed to exactly what he’s been his whole career (a number 3/4 starting pitcher) and is controlled for 5 more years at very reasonable terms.

      • I’m not debating happ vs niese, there is no debate

        i’m debating whether or not that the upgrade from niese to happ is worth JPA.

        starting catchers are in high demand. again, refer to russell martins deal

        • Bingo. Niese probably would be better than Happ going forward, but is that potential upgrade big enough to trade a starting C? Not at all.

          • please don’t agree with me, I instantly begin to doubt myself

          • You shouldn’t. I’m rarely wrong (well except about Rogers eventually spending money, but find me anybody who honestly believed that).

          • I’m right here.

          • Ah, but were you really a true believer? You were growing pretty skeptical of Rogers in your tone over the last few months until The Trade.

          • Is Neise as 5th and Happ as 6th and Buck as starter better (worth more) than ??? as 6th and Happ as 5th and Arencibia as starter, for this season?

            Gotta pull everything to the equation.

            • Yes ther are better with Niese than Jpa if you consider having Niese for the entire season whereas you would likely only be starting Buck for 6 weeks

          • Ahh BFF.
            I’ve been hammering you for years about Rogers and yet you forget about me
            Am I that forgetable?
            Or do you just kick in your selective memory whenever you desire?
            You’re a smart knowledgeable guy,you don’t need to stoop back to being a condescending ignorant prick,like you used to be..
            Don’t let your ego cash cheques that we both know are gonna bounce..

          • I also believed in AA. He said Rogers would spend when he needed the money for something special. I believed him and said as much.

            So instead of making blanket statements just admit that you were wrong. Horribly wrong, and that you’re wrong about Arencibia.

          • I’ll certainly be wrong if Rogers doesn’t just pull back on this immediately after one year like they did the last time they went on a mini spending-spree in 2005. But I’m not going to give them that much credit yet, nor should anybody who’s being honest with themselves.

            And I’m not sure how I can be wrong about Arencibia when I haven’t said anything about him (beyond my belief that it wouldn’t be worth it to trade him for a guy like Niese).

    • Jesus. People aren’t suggesting DFA’ing Happ. We would STILL HAVE HIM for depth if we trade for Niese. Its not strictly Happ+JPA vs Niese

  7. Would the djf commenters give their opinion on Jeff karstens, a good competion for Happ in the rotation

    • http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/assessing-jeff-karstenss-value/

      Karstens would be great starting pitching depth. I’m not sure you can really guarantee him a job over Happ, though.

    • The only thing I will really say in Happ’s defense is that I have to wonder if AA and his scouts haven’t seen something else in him that the stats just aren’t reflecting at this point. I guess that’s the biggest danger when you’re just comparing statistics prior to a new season.

      As for guys like Karstes, if they come Laffey cheap, then I suppose it doesn’t hurt to try and sign them. If can’t beat out someone like Happ at least you’ve have decent depth.

    • Well for what is worth, I went to the game on 6/29/11 against Pittsburgh and karstens started that game. I realize a 1 game sample is hardly evidenciary, but he toyed with the BJs. Impecabble control walking no one over 7 innings ( but then we had guys in that game like JPA & davis & patterson that would swing at anything). He did give up 2 solo bombs in that game, one to JPA aand one to Escobar. Sort of a CV type but better control, so as say a No7 he would be great.

  8. I make the Niese deal if they than go and pursue a final DH/platoon for Lind – would be basically saying we want to go from wild card potential to division potential right NOW

    Happ can stick around as insurance in case an arm blows and the Jays won’t be that screwed, they’d have good depth

    • I hate kevin youkilis

      but i hope he could be that platoon.. sadly I doubt he would commit to that little playing time.

      it would be a nice fuck you to the red sox as well

  9. I think this article makes a reasonably compelling case that Davis figured something out last year, and that his success might not have simply been a matter of throwing harder due to shorter outings. I’d be interested in the Jays getting him.

    http://www.draysbay.com/2012/11/15/3627390/wade-davis-rays-rotation-vs-bullpen?ref=fangraphs

    • Jeff karstens is better than davis

      • And you also don’t have to trade for Karstens.

      • But that’s because Davis sucks as a starter.

        Karstens has lost games to shoulder issues each of the last three years, so he’s only a guy you can look at for depth, I think, and not someone to count on. But he definitely had a nice 2012 when healthy.

        • Which is why Karstens would probably go elsewhere, unfortunately. You’d have to think somebody will guarantee him a starting job after last season’s 3.32 FIP and the Jays just can’t do that. Not this year.

          • Karstens has been playing in this generations version of the Polo Grounds. I think his numbers are skewered pretty severly by that park.

            Keep looking, Karstens isn’t the answer.

          • He’s certainly the answer if all you are looking out of him is SP depth. Pitching park or not, his stats show that much.

  10. Just fucking sign Greinke and let’s get this over with already.

    To paraphrase Mike from Breaking Bad: Fuck a half measure. This year needs to be a full measure.

    Rogers obviously has the money. One more strike from AA’s nunchuks is not too much to ask for.

    • You make a good point and it wouldn’t even necessarily have to be Greinke. Why trade anything of value at all for a minor SP upgrade when you have an owner seemingly going all-in this year? Just push it to the next step if you want another SP.

  11. Guys Jpa is not that great. Trading him for any pitcher who would be in our rotation (an upgrade over haap) would be a solid deal. Also like to trade him for a dh like Kendry morales or Carlos Quentin.

  12. Some people really have a skewed sense of JPA’s value holy shit.

    • Not really.

      JPA isn’t exceptionally good, but the current crop of mlb catchers makes him valuable. I’m not sure why people can’t understand that.

      I mean Rays like Jose Molina and his .640 OPS start 100 games last year
      Marsen, Norris, Suziki, all with OPS’s in the low .600′s started

      • League average wRC+ over the last couple of years at the postion has been around 95, I just read (somewhere re: Russell Martin), and Arencibia has been at 92 and 89 with weak defence (albeit much improved in the second year).

        On the plus side, a shade below league average is still valuable, and he’s young enough to improve, plus he’s got four years of control left.

        Defensive metrics for catchers aren’t without their problems, but if you combine offence and defence into a tidy number via WAR, Arencibia was 21st of 28 catchers with 300+ PA last year (with John Buck right behind him). So… he’s not THAT valuable.

        Niese seems like a great return for him to me, but obviously I’m much higher on Niese than others.

        • If Niese turned out to be 2012 Niese going forward I’d be all in on that with you for sure. However, none of his peripherals improved over noticeably over 2010 or 2011 except his BABIP. I keep wondering if he just wasn’t luckier in 2012 than anything else.

        • i hate defensive metrics for catchers, so i can’t buy in on that, but the other stats confirm that JPA is an average to below average young cheap catcher with 4 more years of control.

          given the fack that guys like martin are signing for 8.5 a year and given the fact that many contenders are the ones with catchers worse than JPA, yes he is valuable.

          he’s not going to bring back a top of the rotation starter on his own, but can be used in a trade for one for sure.

          Angels, Texas, Tampa, Yankees, phillies, etc all contending teams with worse catching situations either now or moving forward that jpa.

      • Arencibia’s CEILING is a 2 win catcher. The Jays have two in house options available, one with a similar ceiling (Buck) one with a much higher ceiling (TDA) and a similar floor.

        Meanwhile, You can get a guy in Niese who is cost controlled at a crazy good contract until 2016/7 who is at least a 1 win upgrade over Happ and a ceiling where he is more like a 2 win improvement. Plus, he’s signed for the next half decade which allows for cost certainty which is extremely valuable. Like I don’t think people realize how valuable a 3win pitcher like Niese is on that contract.

    • I think there are a lot of intangibles at the catcher position that most fans just don’t appreciate compared to how managers and GM’s do. Now I’m not saying that JPA is rich in that category himself but just look at the reluctance AA had in trading a veteran like Mathis. Again it might be an old baseball narrative that gets played up too much by old timers but for me I don’t necessarily think that’s the case.

      Also if you’re looking at everything involved like years of control and cost and his stats in relation to the league average at catcher JPA’s value starts to increase. The average catcher in MLB for 2012 had the following slash line: .248/.318/.400/.718 and in 2011 it was .245/.313/.395/.710. JPA has been .720 and .718 the last 2 years.

      • Agreed. AA clearly liked Mathis a lot. Traded for him, extended him for two years (!) and then supposedly almost called off a monster trade because of his inclusion. I don’t know if it’s his pitch framing or something else that made him valuable in the Jays’ eyes, but it was clearly not something that comes up in traditional WAR (where Mathis is -0.5 for his entire career).

      • Slugging is less valuable than OBP though, and JPA will never OBP over 290 unless he gets crazy lucky.

      • But Neise is cost controlled for years too. Not easy to find decent cost controlled pitchers either.

        Not saying JPA isn’t valuable, but controlled good pitchers are more valuable than catchers to us, given TDA. We’ll be moving JPA along at some point in the next year or two. Why not now, when we need more pitching more than we need the slight upgrade than JPA represents over Buck.

        • JPA definitely has value.

          Big power, cheap contract, years of control, potential upside, improving defense and by all appearances a great guy in the clubhouse.

          There is definitely value in that.

          Enough for a straight up trade for a guy like Niese? Don’t think so. Could he be part of a package for a top guy? Sure.

          • He’s 27, how much upside do you think he has left? He’s not enough to land a guy like Niese straight, but, he could be part of a package for a middling rotation guy.

  13. Reposting this from my earlier comment above since it took me a while to find something similar to compare JPA’s value to – it’s not perfect so feel free to pick it apart but it should shed some light on what he could considerably net:

    – I tried looking up similar catchers traded at his age with a similar skillset and it was hard, because he’s already 27 (in a month)

    Chris Ianetta was 28 when he was traded from the Rox to LA for Tyler Chatwood. That year he put 3.1 WAR,, his best season to date. He doesnt slug as hard as JP but he’s better on base and they have similar batting avg.’s. Big difference is Ianetta was a free agent in 2012 if I can recall correctly, whereas JPA’s obviously got a number of years to go before that.

    So considering Niese would be more valuable than a Chatwood, because JPA is “potentially” better than an Ianetta and under contract for longer, I don’t see how a JPA-Niese swap is that outside the realm of realism based on a similarly aged/skilled catcher -

    • JPA and Ianetta aren’t really similar players though.

      • though I agree with your conclusion.

        • yea they arent similar but i couldnt find anything in the last 10 years that was as close as this but you get my overall drift though

          @ dexter – definitely – the idea here is that JPA is still in that “intangible actualization bubble” – the thought of what he could still do yet, whereas with Ianetta it was pretty clearcut what he would offer – thus, it’s almost like the reverse – Angels got a known entity and gave the Rox a young pitcher with “potential” while here we have a young JPA who “could” still get better defensively and has 30 homer pop for a guy in Niese who we’re fairly certain what to expect of him based on his peripheral #s

          • I guess.

            But Niese is a year younger than JPA.

            He’s more valuable now and probably just as much room for improvement.

    • Except Niese is way better that Chatwood.

      It’s not completely ridiculous I guess but the Mets still ain’t gonna do it. If they were I’m sure it would be done.

      You don’t “explore” a trade like this, find out a straight up swap works and then not do it. It would make way too much sense for the Jays.

  14. JPA is a rare commodity, of course he has lots of value. There aren’t many catcher in the MLB who can hit for power. He is young and still controllable. I would look to get a pitcher like price. Maybe a package like noah, jpa, sanchez, + gose.

    • “you know with a catcher, I’ll take the guy who does the damage. I don’t want someone who can hit for average, I want the damage.”

      Buck Martinez

    • A rare commodity? Please. His pop is negated by his shitty plate discipline. He is average all the way around and we have a replacement who looks to be MLB ready. I’m not saying trade him for a tube of eye black but Fuck Me a rare commodity? C’mon.

    • rod barajas and john buck have pretty similar profiles to JPA… we’re talking about a guy who can hit for power but won’t get on base 30% of the time. fringy defender.

      i’d be pretty happy if AA cashed in whatever value JPA has…

  15. I still wonder how much it would cost in prospects to pry Jeff Samardzija away from the Cubs. Then again we wouldn’t have to do that if AA could ninja sign Haren or McCarthy first.

    • Now you’re talking.

      I like Niese, but Samardzjia is a monster.

      And would cost a lot more. Syndergaard for a start.

  16. if JPA is traded, AA will have to sign McCarthy just to make up for the large Twitter void JP will leave – McC is the only guy i can think of who uses social media on a similar level to what JP does

    • Twitter void? My god, if AA has to sign guys to placate needy fans than we’re in trouble. Arencibia comes across like a dumb, over sensitive fuckhead. The less he opines via twitter, radio & print the better. JPA is terrible on twitter & pretty much everywhere.

    • on a similar level?

      Arencibia’s twitter is garbage. McCarthy is the god of twitter athletes

  17. I’m not the greatest fan of JPA as a player, but I do think he has a fair amount of value on the trade market. He is a legit major league catcher, he’s young, making the league minimum, with many years of control. That is definitely worth something.

    I do tend to side with the faction who wouldn’t want to “waste” a JPA trade on someone like Niese. I think we can aim higher here.

    I base this on absolutely nothing but my gut, but I think AA has one more fairly substantial move this off season to surprise us with. Maybe a FA signing but more likely a trade.

  18. Please note Niese fWAR 2.4 / rWAR 3.2 while Arencibia fWAR 1.3 / rWAR 1.4 to keep this in context.. Yes WAR isnt everything but to say JPA is worth way more than Niese is a bit far fetched.

  19. “If you hear about it, it’s probably not true.”

  20. The Niese/Happ comparison is largely irrelevant….. Unless you’re counting on the same five starters pitching all 162 games this year.

    If so, good luck.

    After the injury wave last year I’m sure you’ll see the 6th starter get plenty of work and Niese is a clear upgrade on anyone after Happ.

    You can’t push this many chips in and count on Jenkins/Cecil/McGowan/Drabek/Hutch et al. to be your depth.

    Can you?

    • Exactly – its not Niese vs Happ its Niese vs. 6th man shitbag. Unless we have a freakishly healthy season at least one pitcher outstide the opening day rotation will be starting a significant number of games.

    • Exactly. We will almost surely need 25-50 starts from someone not in the original top 5. The comparison isn’t really Niese vs. Happ. It’s whether Niese vs. Jenkins/Mcguire is more of an upgrade than JPA is over Buck for 30-40 starts.

  21. Please explain to me how we trade our only starting catcher? We had two back up catchers and one prospect, now we have one back up and the prospect who’s never had an at bat in his life and has been injured three years in a row. How do we compete without a starting catcher?

    • Because once a starter goes down you’d rather have Buck/Niese than JPA/Jenkins

    • John Buck’s about as good as JPA.

      • So, who’s our back up catcher then? And what if Buck gets hurt..

        • Geovany Soto?

          Who cares.

          They will likely get 10 starts before the break and then TDA gets called up.

          Speaking of which. Is Soto by any chance a right handed lefty masher?

          Two birds. One stone.

          • Jesus Christ, you’re really onto something. Soto’s lifetime splits.
            vs RHP .230/.315 /413/.727 (still better then JPA)
            vs LHP .295/.390/.501/.891

            • JPA + B Grade prospect for a #3 SP maybe.

              Sign Soto as Bucks backup/Lind platoon and we’re laughing. Probably be much cheaper than the 2/$10 mill for Gomes and who knows. Maybe he finds his ROY stroke from a few years back.

        • Geovany Soto?

          Who cares. They’ll get 10 starts before the break and then TDA will get a call up.

          Seriously though. Soto has a career .890 OPS against lefties. Nice backup C that gives AA flexibility and also platoons with Lind at DH.

          He sucked last year but could have a nice bounce back.

    • The idea being that our starting catcher isn’t that much of an upgrade over Buck if he bounces back or d’Arnaud’s potential.

      Look at in equation form

      JPA/Buck+Happ = ? vs return on trade for JPA + Buck/d’Arnaud + having Happ as depth =?

      That’s pretty basic because it doesn’t take into account things like years of control or salary. If money wasn’t a huge issue you’d probably have the best equation with

      JPA/Buck + free agent signee + Happ as depth = ?

    • Buck is a starting catcher.

      He’s been slightly worse than JPA in a worse hitters park. Put him back in the Dome and there is likely no drop off.

      Escobar was our starting SS and we traded him.

      We’ll probably still be OK.

      Probably.

      • we traded our starting short stop for an even better starting short stop

        • And we already have a “just as good” catcher from that same trade. Point is because someone is your starter doesn’t make them untouchable.

          Sorry for the double post above. First one lagged.

  22. AA makes “20 calls to one, compared to some other GMs.” WOW. Good on him. He’s the ultimate baseball troll.

    • All those employee minutes with his Rogers plan, might as well make use of them.

      • FUCKING LOLZ Honestly Buxk though is like arencebia except just a tad worse. By trading arencebia that ‘tad worse’ is much better than Niese compared to Cecil Carreno etc. I can gurantee with our luck Jays would need 7 starters this year. That being said with our current rotation best option would be to add 2 more depth pitchers cuz of injuries. How does AA do that? Well sign a mccarthy haren or marcum and make the niese trade. This is coming from someone who’s not a big fan of the niese trade.

  23. I do not like this idea of trading JP but again I’m not paying the Bills I only watch the games

  24. Danny Espinosa on the market – better 2b option than Izturis/Boni? Or is his horrible avg and less than desirable OBP too much a turn off

    Otherwise that combo of good D, double digit HR/SB looks pretty good

    • uggggggh! a younger version of strike out aholic Kelly johnson. i think AA saw enough of that….unless I fart some magic curry dust in his face…..hmmmmmm

  25. Conpletely off topic …

    What does everyone think of John Lannan?

    Was a spare part for the Nats because they’re SPs were ridiculous. Worth a look for the Jays?

  26. Let’s assume that Dickey isn’t particularly hard to extend (and I can’t imagine that he is considering his career earnings).

    Would the DJF crowd rather trade JPA and a couple of B assets for Dickey with a 2 year $25ish million extension or for Jon Niese?

    I’m with Fullmer. I’m not sure Niese and his 90 mph FB would be that much better than Brett Cecil let alone JA Happ in the Rogers Centre.

    To be honest, I’d rather trade for someone like Ogando or even a AAA prospect with #2 starter potential than go after Niese.

    It just doesn’t seem like enough of an upgrade on Happ to be worthwhile.

    I know a lot of people says “what’s the rush to move JPA?” For me, I’d probably take the best asset I can get and move JPA this winter because I honestly don’t think John Buck will be any worse.

    And I also think 2 months of Buck as the starter followed by 4 months with a Buck/D’arnaud tandem would be better than JPA and Buck for the season.

    TDA doesn’t have to be very good to be better than JPA.

    • JPA + Gose for ogando + bit player would be a good deal for both sides as texas would be fucked without napoli

      • Boo. Too much for Ogando.

        Gose is almost untouchable for me. Way too many tools there to be a throw in for a potential #3 starter. He improved at the plate in a short period of time, especialy at laying off pitches. If he even becomes a .260/.330/.400 guy down the road he’s a fuckin monster asset.

        I think he’s a guy you work with until he either gets it or absolutely proves that he never will. If he never pans out and you waste an asset thats a chance you take because of his ridiculous speed and arm.

        • What you think #3 starters grow on trees? Yeah let’s make a guy untouchable who may or may not develop a solid hit tool in order to be even a viable MLB player. Ridiculous.

          • True. I guess untouchable is a bit much.

            But he’s definitely not a throw in for a #3 guy.

            He finished the year with an OBP just over .300. Nothing to write home about but after his horrible start and considering he’s super young for MLB I think a .330/.340 OBP reasonable to hope for.

            Getting on base 1/3 of the time with super elite defense and speed is not something I want to trade

    • If I was trading for a pitcher off the Mets roster it would be Dickey as long as I could extend him. I’d be happy to move JPA and Davis and a prospect for 3 years of Dickey even if he regressed some. Adding someone like Dickey would give you at least 3 #2′s with the possibility of all those guys pitching like aces. That alone would be very hard to beat over the course of a season when you combine that with a solid pen and offense. It also would give you some protection if you couldn’t get Johnson to sign an extension.

      • @night_manimal

        Please stop this talk of attempting to give dickeys and johnsons long extensions–it’s unseemly, and frankly beneath you. (Sorry, bad choice of words.) Consider a cold shower, my friend–this much rosterbation so early in the off-season has taken it’s toll. Stiff upper lip.

        • I stopped playing video games a few months back so I need another hobby. Regular porn just doesn’t do it for me anymore. Give a guy a break will you?

          • dickeys…
            johnsons…
            long extensions……………………………

            It may not be true comedic gold, but hell, I tried.
            When did you become such a literalist?

            Carry on.

    • I’d have no problem making JPA a part of a Dickey deal.

  27. the jays already have a good rotation. morrow at nmber 1k romero at number 2, beuhrle at 3, happ at 4, and johnson at 5, so yeahh. and arencibia has been playin rlly well

  28. “Melky Cabrera, the disgraced outfielder who slunk out of San Francisco after testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs, was awarded a two-year, $16 million deal from the Toronto Blue Jays. Giving him a $2 million raise over his 2012 salary is questionable enough. Giving him two years seems downright foolish.”

    Why can’t I get paid to write about sports when there are idiots like this in the world?

  29. JPA for Lou Whitaker and Frank Tanana.

    • 18 year layoff for Lou would scare a lot of teams away

    • we can throw in Rance Mulnicks but they need to get Willie Hernandez to give Alfredo Griffin a mash potato hand job on top of the CN tower on Jim Clancys birthday

  30. Niese looks like a significant upgrade. Even when you throw Marcum in, Niese is younger, has been healthier, and has been better in most regards. He might even have upside (maybe a 3-4 WAR guy?).

    http://bit.ly/YkBhZ7

    • I guess AA would have to ask himself how much he values JPA. Niese could be a part of the core for years to come or Marcum could be a good band-aid solution for 2013 and 2014m(unless he wants 3+ years).

      If JPA is traded I do hope they bring in another catcher. What happens if Buck (an older guy) gets injured? d’Arnaud could come in and save the day but I wouldn’t gamble on it.

      • I don’t know, but a two-win upgrade at the back-end of the rotation seems like it would offset having to find a replacement-level catcher if Buck was hurt and D’Arnaud wasn’t ready, notwithstanding the fact that if JPA was traded AA would add a backup before spring training anyway.

  31. ma nig rostenthal know wassup doe. JP aint nuthin but a flirt, i kinda digress doe.. i mean shit how we suppose kno dis tda kid gone stay healthy? anyways Buck can Fuck ppl up when inspired. Wut y’all kno bout Pelfry on da mets? bet you AA signs him. Ill be like bwahwahawahw bitches i got that ish right doe

  32. that AA sounds like a 12 year old

  33. Question.

    JPA and Denard Span. When you factor in their contracts and WAR per dollar and stuff…. Who has more value?

    I’m guessing Span but JPA is really cheap for a long time.

    Just trying to value JPA in terms of a young SP that may add depth from AAA and future upside.

  34. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/21220606/six-or-seven-teams-are-looking-to-meet-with-mets-on-dickey

    Not sure if this was posted today or not.

    Not sure if I would give up JPA and Gose. If anything I’d be far more willing to part with Davis first, obviously, then Bonifacio as a last resort. As much as I am looking forward to seeing Bonifacio play, the chance of adding someone like Dickey is hard to pass up.

    • Agreed NM

      We’ve both been pushing for Dickey…or someone like Samardsjia, Haren or anyone else who is a clear upgrade on Happ.

      But there is no way I’d give up both JPA and Gose. That’s way too much for a 38 year old even if he won the Cy Young.

      I still don’t think a team will beat JPA, Sierra & Happ/Cecil. Unless Dayton Moore loses his marbles and offers Wil Myers.

  35. Jays have invested too much in pitching now to let JPA anywhere near this staff. Morrow has already volunteered to drive him to the airport

    • Jpa + Sierra ?

      • A teams catcher is the most unselfish position on the club – probably why they turn up so often as good coaches later on. The catcher is responsible to make his pitcher as confident, relaxed and focused on the situation at hand. He is at times coach, strategist, psycologist, trainer, and friend to his battery mate.
        JPA misses the mark here. Last year was a disater CERA was 4.8, he ranked 102 in past balls, whatever you want to make of all the pitching injuries, an inemic BA, and his inability to sit still or set up early make him the best choice to be moved.

  36. http://www.azsnakepit.com/2012/12/1/3716188/baseball-non-tender-list-2012?ref=fangraphs

    As the title of article says – Dumpster Diving Candidates

    • First time I read that thought it said Dempster Diving Canadians haha. Figured it was some beaver maple sugar queefing article about AA trying to get Dempster to play for TO based on his nationality

  37. Jeez, I just walked in and it seems as if I have missed an entire lifetime of bullshit. You guys make waiting for a championship fun!

    • ………

    • Tom, you don’t seem to really get T-dot ennui.

    • Just did the same Tom.Did you get your answer about Opera Bobs or were you kidding?

      • No, I was serious. I have never been there.

        • Opera Bobs is a bar,where in the earlier days of this blog, Stoeten would have gettogethers.I’ve never been myself,I had imagined a bunch of guys with laptops discussing splits. At the beginning of 2012 baseball season,Stoeten had the usual invite to a soiree at OB’s and a live broadcast from there.
          Looked like a great time and my fears were unfounded.The place was so packed that they needed an overflow bar down the street.
          Anyways,it’s sorta the official/unofficial bar of DJF
          Although if Stoeten has the same at the start of the 2013 season,he’s gonna need a bigger bar..

  38. I like JPA.
    Trade him if the situation is right … in other words a team who is desperate ovedrpays for a decent catcher…. otherwise hold until a team needs to overpay for a decent catcher.

    Thats the bottom line.

    • … or AA could, ya know, forget about waiting for a team to overpay and focus on making the team better instead. When you’re close to contention, you don’t even have to get full value back for a player in order for it to be beneficial to the club. In the Jays’ case, they potentially have a better option at catcher in TDA. So if by trading JPA, you can fill a hole elsewhere, there is still a net benefit for the team. That doesn’t mean that I think AA should trade JPA right now.. I just don’t think that a trade is contingent on AA finding a ‘too good to be true’ deal. Rather, it’s contingent on whether AA believes TDA is healthy again and ready to step into the everyday role. If TDA is ready, and a trade presents itself where the players exchanged are of equal value but the player coming back fills a hole that improves the team, you make the trade.

      • agreed

      • You do realize that we are a contending team now right? This is it, this is AA’s moment. He’s bought the expensicve car and the problem is he has a 17 year old driver (JPA) behind the wheel. IMHO AA should stop at nothing to get the right catcher for the start of the 2013 campaign. He is cashing his chips now. He’s 80% of the way in, so lets stand back and see how big this thing gets

  39. Lmao I love how overvalued J.P. is amongst certain people. When you look at the entire offensive package, he’s slightly below average, even for a catcher (hits for a ton of power – also is amongst the worst in OBP, if not dead last). His plate discipline actually got worse going from 2011 to 2012, which is almost an accomplishment in and of itself. The fact that he resembled something even close to an average defensive backstop in ’12 had people wanting to keep Wakamatsu for possibly playing a part in something that was nothing short of a miracle

    He’s going into his age 27 season and I don’t see any reason to suspect he’s going to take a quantum leap with the bat. As I said, his plate discipline actually went in the wrong direction. At his best he’s probably a somewhat above average offensive catcher who doesn’t kill you behind the plate, and the best thing he has going for him is 4 years of club control and one year of pre-arb. If Niese is on the table, its not even a discussion

    • The fact that many teams are very interested in him, the rangers in particular, it tells you how valuable JPA is right now. Your focusing too much on OBP blah blah blah. Realistically JPA has the power to hit 30 hrs in a year and get 80+ rbis. Yes he strikes out a lot, however, I much rather have him than a guy who hit in the 190s last year and is old as fuck. We don’t know how TDA will turn out, he could be the next snider. Also, have you taken a look at how JPA hits with runners in scoring position? If not look it up.

  40. Would JPA plus Rasmus or Gose get us Dickey?
    John Heyman is reporting that the Mets are now looking at offers and they need a catcher and an outfielder.

    I would go for this and lock him up at 3/30. It could be a steal.

    • This would be a horrible trade for the jays. Dickey had one great year, hes bound to regress back to the mean which will be aided by the fact he plays in the AL EAST. And you want to give up rasmus and jp? Okay and start who in CF?

      • Bonifacio is a very capable center fielder. And with the friendly contract years left on Joey Bats and EE and the clear win now attitude thats been implemented since the Marlin Trade I would totally consider moving JPA who is totally disposable although I hate that word and Rasmus who nobody knows what kinda game will show up on his end for a Cy young caliber pitcher.

        Im also not as concerned with his age due to his style of pitching.

      • What would “regress to the mean” look like for a 37 year old who has just had his career year. He might lose some velocity and have a 76 MPH knuckleball. Dickey has more proven upside than anyone mentioned in the JP trades. It could be possible that he can duplicate that year again.
        I would take a chance on picking up a potential ace for JP and Rasmus.
        Gose would be the one I hate to give up in any trade.

        • I’d do that trade but not if it costs Gose+JPA.
          Jays can’t trade all of their young potential stars to sell out this year, they aren’t that close.
          Just from a fan of the game standpoint, I’d love to see Dickey in a Jays uniform; I’ve never seen an 80mph knuckleball live.

  41. In addition, hes so fucking old…

  42. Forget Niese, let’s kick the tires on Johan Santana. He has one year left at 25 million.
    Give them JPA and ask for Johan and 15 million.
    Johan was bad in 2012 but it was his first year back from TJ and it was a quick turnaround.
    Guys are stronger the second year and he did chuck a no-no this year.

    A gamble but one year at 10 million, if he goes back to his 2010 numbers…..:

    2.98 era, 199 innings, 1.176 whip

    …..then it’s a fuckin steal.

    Kick the tires, light the fires.

    • Also, you guys who are railing to hang onto JPA because there’s a shortage of catching at the ML level need to realize that this can change quickly. It all go’s in cycles, for years you couldn’t find a SS who could hit and then there was an influx of those, same for CF. Currently it’s hard to find a good fantasy option at 3B. It always cycles and it just so happens that there is a great crop of catchers coming up.

      Lavarnaway
      Zunino
      Mesoraco
      Bethancourt
      Valle
      Joseph
      Hedges
      Realmutto
      Swihart
      Brantley
      Alfaro
      Romine
      Sanchez

      Some of these guys are going to break in in 2013, JPA’s value will never be as high as it is now. Trade him while he has the value because in 6 months or a year he may only be replacement level.

      • 30HR, 80RBI. From your catcher….batting 8th. $500k….he’s 26 years old and about to enter his prime. You really think he’s replacement level? Come on man.

        • I’m sorry, has he hit 30 HRs in either of his two seasons? Or are you looking into your crystal ball and telling us that he’s going to hit 30 this upcoming season based on nothing

          • not based on nothing but yes, I am projecting. He hit 23 his first year, 18 last year. I’ll go out on a limb and say I think he can hit 30.

          • That’s adorable

            How did you get from 23 in 2011, 18 and 2012, to 30 in 2013? What is this “projection” based on exactly?

          • Wishful thinking; Optimism; Or Good Vibrations?

            To Stiebs defense JPA did miss quite a bit of action last year and prolly woulda hit around 24 bombs if healthy.

            30 however is a stretch but not outta the question.

          • logic and hope? He’s 26 so I presume he’ll get better. His HR/PA rate has improved from year 1 to year 2 as has his BA. He raked in the minors and last year, if you look and his May/July splits; he’s shown what he can do when he’s on. His HR/PA rate last year was just short of what it would need to be for him to hit 30 HR on 500 PA. I think he can do it and for 500k, I think it’s worth holding onto him to see if he can; there’s really no risk in keeping JPA.
            Like I’ve said before, I’d trade him for Dickey or another #1 but otherwise; I don’t see the benefit to moving him.

          • Sure, and does he have the raw power to do it? Absolutely. But when a guy strikes out almost 25%-30% of the time and makes as little contact as J.P. does, its hard to see him hitting 30 without either of those two things improving. Lots of things could happen, I just don’t see any probable cause

          • Actually to the contrary Areback. Strikeouts and home runs often come hand in hand. To say he wont hit 30 because he strikes out a lot is actually in accurate in a lot of cases.

            See Jose Canseco or Adam Dunn.

            Same reason Ichiro never strikes out is hes rarely swinging for the fences.

          • Lol you’re kidding right? First of all, J.P. has good, above average power. Adam Dunn has mammoth power – I never saw anyone put an 80 on Arencibia’s power. That’s Stanton, Harper territory. A lot of flyballs for Arencibia are HRs for Dunn. Second of all, Adam Dunn has a FAR better eye than J.P., which is a big deal because he has a better idea of which pitches he can smash

            Dunn’s one of the most unique players in the history of baseball. Using him as a benchmark for anything is ridiculous

      • I agree, if JPAs a finished product then he can’t do it (other than with luck) . I am hoping he learns some pitch selection and discipline. Again, to me; his age and experience suggest that he could do it. We’ll see, it won’t be this year with a health Buck taking ABs away from him.

        • Dude they are just small exmaples of strikeouts/home runs. Nobodoy is comparing JPA to Dunn. All Im telling is to say a guys not gonna hit 30 because of his strike out rate is false.

          Nothing more nothing less

          Your missing the correlation

          • I’m not “missing the correlation.” If you’re going to hit 30 with a K-rate that high, you need an extreme amount of your flyballs to go for HRs. For example – Chris Davis hit 33 with a strikeout rate over 30. But 25% of his flyballs went for HRs.

            Of course J.P. can hit 30…. but his HR/FB was 16% last year and 15% for his career. Fairly certain he isn’t going to get that much stronger in his 27 season without the help certain substances, so the only other way for him to get to 30 is by making more contact. Not sure what’s so hard to understand about that. Either his power has to take a big leap, or his contact ability does

        • “FAR better eye”

          what do you base that on?

          Oh right must be the 190 strikeouts Dunn has averaged the last 4 seasons. Yer right that would explain his FAR better eye.

          Really?

          • agree to disagree

          • Shit, I don’t know, his ridiculous walk rates maybe? You’re not near the top of the walks leaderboards every year if your pitch recognition stinks. The fact that he strikes out has more to do with his swing, which is geared purely to hit for power, not his eye. If he took a more contact oriented approach earlier in his career, he’d hit for a higher average and far less homeruns, which would be a waste of his power. Again, don’t really see how that’s difficult to understand

    • Johnson’s already coming off the books after 2013, you gotta think if AA makes a move for a pitcher he’ll want some measure of control, like he’d get with Niese.

      If you really want to go all-in, why not sell the farm for Price, and trade Rasmus and JPA for Kinsler… And sign Bourn and Sanchez to round out the Winter Meetings.

  43. Weekend post from Stoeten?

    Gotta say, I would trade JPA for Niese. But if Ken Rosenthal is reporting it before any official trade is made, probably won’t happen. And I do like Ken. He is usually good with his reports, as his baseball trade prediction estimator rate (BTPER) is way above league league average.

    • Homer bailey could be a cheap depth trade; as the reds are looking for an outfielder so maybe trade a prospect plus Davis/bonafacio for him?

      • How’s a guy coming off 208 innings of 3.68 ERA ball and huge stuff going to be cheap? The Reds want a starter… if Davis/Bonafacio aren’t going to be starting in our outfield, what makes you think they would for a team that made the playoffs last season?

      • WOW hhahaha. Dude Homer Bailey is a STUD!!

        That would be like trading Morrow or Juan Pierre.

        Not even remotely possible.

  44. Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

    File this away for Thursday: Exec tells me Rule 5 class strong this year, potential impact arms and bats. “One of the best I’ve seen.”

    This got me to thinking about the Jays last bench spot which has remained unfilled up to now. I’m wondering if AA takes a flyer on one these guys for the 2013 season. Maybe we get lucky like we did with Gruber or Bell.

    • Rule 5 no longer fits with the BJ strategy for 2013. Jays are going for it this year so there’s no room for passengers. We will be losing prospects not gaining them.

      • Perhaps non-tendering WIlson was to protect another prospect from the Rule 5 draft by adding him to the 40-man. Or perhaps that’s not how the Rue 5 draft works and I’m a fuckwit.

    • That seems plausible. It wouldn’t suprise me to have AA take a flier on an upside arm or bench bat. His statements indicate that barring a trade, the remaining additions this offseason will be depth type pitching. If there’s a Laffey type going to be signed, there’s no need for them to be on the 25 man unless there’s an injury.

      Let’s say there’s $2M left to sign an end of the bench (or pen) player. If there’s a rule 5 pick with the same upside as that hypothetical player, it might fit AA’s MO to go that route, and save the payroll, either outright or for in-season flexibility..

  45. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/quick-hits-figgins-pelfrey-twins-willingham.html

    A #4 for ol Willy eh?

    wonder if Happ plus ____ would do it? The number of years of control Happ has could be enticing.

    Happ at 4 is a stretch but a lot of people here think he’s more than capable 5 so who knows

    Twins are so wrecked for pitching, they’d probably take a chance on anyone.

    • If that’s all they can get, they might as well keep him. If he keeps raking someone’s likely going to get desperate and overpay at the deadline

      Who knows, it might even be us

    • I dont see how trading Happ who at the moment is the only option for the end of the rotation for a left fielder when the outfield is a position of strength for the Jays.

      Create another hole by adding to an area of strength just doesnt dd up for me.

  46. also not sure if mentioned but the Hammer is a Sosnick agent too, so maybe he puts in a good word for the Jays?

    Happ and Lind for Willingham?

    i guess this all assumes he’d be fine playing DH and not fielding

    • edit: should say client, not agent

    • Yes DH option for Willingham would be def be an upgrade over Lind.

      I do have a feeling though that AA is going with Lind to start the season. And Lind would be very tough to move at his salary and shittyness

  47. What about Reed Johnson as a platoon mate for Lind. He OPS’d about .800 against LHP, though had a drop off in the second half, maybe due to going from Wrigley to Turner Field. Spring training invite?

  48. Jays trade for masterson? Young arm lost of years of control shouldn’t cost too much to get from the tribe

  49. I think the best thing for the Jays to do is to hold onto JPA unless someone’s really, really desperate and wants to offer something stupid for him. Right now, the Jays don’t have to move him: they’re fairly well-set all-round, and catcher is a position of strength for the Jays. That isn’t going to be hurt if TDA starts tearing it up in AAA and both he and JPA (oh yes, and John Buck, too) are all healthy mid-season.

    Then, imagine a scenario in June or July where the Jays are missing someone for the season and another team is down a starting catcher. I think that’s when AA should make a move. But right now, there’s no way to know what piece we’re going to have to replace, and AA would look pretty silly if trades JPA right now and Travis goes down to injury in April.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *