Former Mets and Orioles GM, and current MLB Network analyst, Jim Duquette knows where his rumour bread is buttered, as he lays this Jays-related nugget on us:

He follows it up by responding to a question:

Now… the equivalent of Bogaerts and Bradley it is not– that’s more like d’Arnaud and (were he still here) Marisnick– but that’s still a damn hefty price. Moises Sierra? Now you’re talking.

But, I mean, you keep Gose in the minors long enough and you’re looking at six years of control of him, plus four for Arencibia. I still don’t get how even that’s a reasonable price for a single season of Dickey, but… maybe it is.

Dave Cameron of FanGraphs tries to suss out what Dickey’s trade value might really be, and he figures that he’s not just a one-year player– that an extension will be likely with his new club, and that the Mets need to factor that into their asking price.

“If Greinke goes to one of the LA clubs, then maybe you’re asking Texas for Mike Olt and Leonys Martin,” Cameron writes. “If he goes to Texas, then maybe you’re asking the Dodgers for Zach Lee and Joc Pederson. If the Mets are willing to move Dickey, this is the kind of price they should be asking.”

Uh… yikes. So maybe that’s really the price. Of course, the Jays’ involvement is all just rumour, and probably meaningless.

So… there’s that.

Comments (187)

  1. Let’s assume Jim Duquette has an accurate source, though with AA’s cone of silence that’s a big assumption.

    The “maybe Gose too” part just sounds like spitballing.

    Though I agree with Dave Cameron that it probably won’t be hard to extend Dickey, I still wouldn’t give up both Aaron Cibia AND Gose.

    JPA, Happ & Sierra sure.

    • The interesting thing regarding rumors about the Jays in a trade is there’s always the other team.

      I definitely don’t agree with Cameron on his value. Kind of thought the conclusions were silly imo.

      • You also don’t like FIP, so…

        • Yeah not a huge fan. In this case Cameron didn’t even want to use it and rightly so.

          • The only reason he doesn’t he didn’t want to use FIP (if that’s true) is because it underrates knuckleballers, who might have more ability to limit hits. Its a perfectly fine measure for 99.9% of pitchers

          • That’s the whole problem with FIP it treats different kinds in an unequal manner so it’s not fine for 99.9% of pitchers. There’s plenty of good reading material out there that shows FIP is far from perfect.

          • Of course FIP is “far more perfect,” all baseball stats are. Its still one of the better measures of pitcher performance and a shit-tonne better than ERA

            I’d love it if you could point me in the direction of some of this material though

      • A metric shit-tonne.

    • That’s a fringe starting catcher, a #4 starter, and a fourth outfielder…. don’t see that happening.

      • Woah no need to round up Happ to a #4 starter.

        This is for a 38 year old Cy Young winner, not David fucking Price.

        Nobody is giving up the moon for him.

        Heck, it would not surprise me if on Wednesday night Alderson tells Dickey he’s going to trade him unless he signs for X amount of dollars and Dickey accepts the Mets’ offer.

        Maybe that’s the endgame to all of this.

        • Problem is that you’re competing with other teams with needs. Yeah, you might think Dickey is only worth Arencibia and some spare parts, but other teams are going to be able to top that easily.

          No one said Dickey was David fucking Price, but he does have significant value if you believe that what he is doing is sustainable (and a lot of people do). Even with some regression, you’re looking at an above-average starting pitcher who is going to eat a lot of innings with low risk of injury. That’s valuable.

          • For one season, though.

            Look at what the Brewers received for Greinke from the Angels as a comparison.

            Even at a higher contract and without the potential for draft pick compensation, I have to believe Greinke was worth more than Dickey is now.

            I just don’t see a huge bidding war for Dickey involving multiple top prospects/young major leaguers.

            I guess we’ll see.

          • You’re missing one minor detail – 13 starts of Greinke vs. an entire season of Dickey. Just a minor consideration

    • I assume too, that there is no source, pure spitballing IMO.

      Wouldn’t AA want to have an extension pre arranged before pulling the trigger on a Dickey deal. Then giving up that much makes some sense.

      • And for all the fuck we know AA is already 2 days into his 5 day window in hammering out a deal with the Dick….for all we know.

  2. third dickey post i’ve seen today

  3. would a domed stadium be a negative or positive for a knuckleball?

    • i bet he’d be lit up like a christmas tree at rogers centre

    • some have suggested he wouldn’t be as adversely affected as most knuckleballers because he throws it harder (or something to that effect)

    • I got mixed results when I looked it up yesterday. Some say that more wind helps some say a humid environment is better. Dickey might be an interesting case even among knuckleballers because he throws it so hard compared to the traditional knuckleballer.

  4. i cant see AA trading JP and Gose for 1 year of Dickey

  5. Im with Stoeten…not worth it if its not just JPA…their whole thing is Cy Young…but age 38 trumps Cy Young award for me at least.

    • As Cameron’s piece says, aging curves on knuckleballers are quite different from the norm.

      • I would assume so as its less on the arm…but still..38.

        if he was 33 maybe.I like him and would love him on the team. I just dont know what i would give for him

        • The thing is that a knuckleball is a pitch that takes years of mastery and as of 2012 he was still getting better with it. He only has to throw at 80mph tops and that isn’t difficult for an aging major leaguer.

  6. Just going to put it out there that Dave Cameron really shouldn’t be talking prospects. Dodgers equivalent isn’t the same as the others, its considerably lower price.

  7. how about this Rays-ian move – they want Yunel as their everyday SS, talking to Marlins.

    18 times a year – 18!!!!!!

    Thee Dollhouse and Mons Venus are likely offering “Eyeblack Night – Everynight”

  8. I’ll be shit upon for saying this, but I’m not a believer in Gose. He may never, ever, learn to hit.

    • He has some value even if he doesn’t, but you’re not wrong.

      • His strongest skills are also not in high demand on the Major League roster. There is plenty of speed with Reyes, Davis and Bonifacio on the roster. Colby Rasmus is a more than adequate defender and will contribute more offensively.

        There’s also more high-ceiling CF prospects in the pipeline including last year’s 1st-round pick, top IFA Franklin Barreto, (former) S Miss 4th-string QB Anthony Alford, and Dalton Pompey in the system. There would be a gap, but one of those players should turn into a Major League regular.

        • Not saying it’s a reasonable price, but it’s probably the market price. Remember what one year of Josh Johnson was going to cost us straight up? RA Dickey was much better than him last year in the same division.

        • All of those guys are far, far, faaaaaar away. Gose is probably a half-season away, a full season at the most. Look at what free agent CFers are getting right now… it might be the biggest position of scarcity after catcher in baseball. Colby’s gonna have to get better if you think he’ll provide more on offense. 85 wrc+ in 2012? 90 wrc+ in 2011? That’s not entirely unrealistic for Gose

  9. Arencibia+rajai+jenkins

    • That’s the whole thing: such an offer is not even close for the Mets.

      • Really?

        It may very well be something like that from some team.

        Good for Alderson for aiming high on the first day of the winter meetings. It doesn’t mean he gets anywhere near that,

  10. We need to think about the marginal value of WAR here when we make assesments of value…

    6+ WAR season is much, much harder to acquire and harder to replace then 6 years of cost controlled 2ish WAR. This isn’t an addition question like some people are treating it as, you need superstars because you only have so many roster spots from which to acquire WAR.

    JP+ for Dickey? I’d take it, why the fuck not? Its dickey!

    • That’s assuming a trade like that gets done in a vacuum. Obviously there are a lot of other factors in place like payroll and years of control. Don’t get me wrong, if an extension was doable then I’d be willing to move quite a bit. On one hand 3 years of Dickey protects you from Johnson leaving in 2013, it protects you for having to rely on Drabke or Hutchison who might not make it back to anything close to their potential and that’s saying something in Drabek’s case because he wasn’t exactly brilliant to begin with. Finally just how good would a 1-2-3 of Morrow, Dickey and Johnson look in the playoffs?

  11. on a side note, is anyone else finding JP Arencibia’s confident stance on the topic of being traded a little unusual? most of the time a player will say “i havent heard anything” or “its not in my control” JP seems to think he knows something we dont.

    • its jp douchincibia, he doesnt give a fuck

    • it’s almost like he knows it makes more sense for the Jays to trade him than not at some point down the road, and he’s normal confident attitude has trouble coming to terms with it

    • Something that it’s pretty hard to imagine that he knows– or even that Anthopoulos knows. Even if he wants to keep him and doesn’t see the value in the deals out there, he just can’t say now that someone isn’t going to change his mind and make some offer that the Jays didn’t previously know is out there.

      I just can’t imagine AA being dumb enough to tell Arencibia there’s zero chance he’ll be moved.

      • right, and thats my point – most pro athletes understand that, JP seems to almost be in denial about it, of course it is touching that he likes playing in Toronto enough to outright dismiss trade rumors like that

        • Do you think he just tells us all he’s not going anywhere because his level of self importance is so high he’s fucking oblivious? I don’t think AA would tell of all people JPA that he is a lock to be in Toronto come April. There is a legitimate prospect coming up the ranks behind him and a capable vet waiting to handle the job. So he is the mostly likely to move.

      • Agreed. Arencibia gets moved. AA would never tell him he wasn’t moving him with TdA on the cusp.

    • With each stupid tweet or quote I hate him more & more….and he was already my least favourite player on the team.

    • I’m sure he feels that he’s appeared in enough interviews with a hockey stick, or has been sighted at enough hockey games that he’s endeared himself to the fan base to such a degree that he cannot be traded without serious fan backlash. Of course, that’s not the case.

      • I honestly think he is hurt by what fans are saying about him. But being an oft injured/inconsistent one dimensional player (no matter how much your face is on T.V.) is what really turns fans against him.

    • @OP; What the fuck else is the guy gonna say? I am sure if he says it enough times he might actually believe it.

  12. arencibia mccoy davis mcguire

    • Here Mets, please take our giant pile of shit…

    • Fatpuppy:Faatchance for fuksakes. Basically 3 fukstiks and an OK catcher for a pitcher? sheesh

      • they get two outfielders in rajai and mccoy, a high upside pitcher, and a great catcher they cant say no

        • I think if JP changes his selfish mindset of trying pull everything for extra base power, he can be a good hitter. But he knows and so do we, if he can hit 20 hrs and 70 rbi regardless of OBP and average, he will still be a commodity with mediocre defense.

          His problem as mentioned is that TDA is lurking. But I think JPA can be a better player if he changes his hitting approach.

  13. Wouldn’t do it for 1 yr of Dickey. W/ an extension? Maaaybe…but if I’m gonna have to part with a guy like Gose, than I either want more from the Mets or…I dunno…maybe I’d actually want to be trading for a guy I’m more confident in going forward than RA Dickey. Dickey is tough to gauge.

  14. duquette can suck my big brown flute, so can alderson, riccardi, farrell and cherrington…its possible because I was born with 8 cocks!!

  15. I remember every time Tim Wakefield pitched at the RC the consensus was that the air inside the dome made the knuckleball really hard to hit.

    61 49 21 15 3 1 1 1 1 316.0 279 169 147 37 139 227 4.19 1.32 .235

    That’s Wakefield’s career line indoors. 316 innings pitched, which is a pretty big sample size. And to consider that Dickey was significantly better than that the last 2 years (including a 1 hitter at Tropicana Field vs the Rays) I think this is a pretty significant aspect to any deal.

    Looking at Dickey the last two seasons, he’s definitely been one of the best in all of baseball. Let’s do this Alex.

    Let’s fucking do this Alex.

    There’s no question this adds a significant aspect to any deal involving Dickey to T.O.

    • Love the enthusiasm but I’m having trouble reading your stats line, it looks like you tried to round off Pi to a trillion decimal places.

  16. Isn’t it 6 years of Gose regardless of how long he’s in the minors? If they keep him down long enough they can get MORE than 6.

  17. Jays still need to be prepared for the possibility of this current roster falling apart and having to hit the reset button in say, 2015 (knock on wood, like a million times). It’d be nice to hold on to the only two position player prospects that project to make any kind of big league impact anytime soon in Gose/TDA.

    • Actually that’s the beauty of this team imo. It’s set for a much better run than the 06-08 group by far especially if Rogers continues to spend at normal MLB levels.

  18. i know im in the minority here but Gose is a guy i would absolutely not part with. i’m sure i’ll get blasted for this but he’s right there with tda in my opinion…i love his game…if he learns how to draw a walk and can hit .265 he is a star in the making.

    love the idea of acquiring dickey but if there’s 2 guys i would not part with in our farm its sanchez and gose.

    love all this baseball talk.

    • I agree, the knock on Michael Bourne when he was coming up is that “he was not allowed to steal first base.” He managed to figure it out enough that his other skills have turned him into a star.

    • Agreed.

      And the Bourne comparison is a pretty good one, but Gose should have a bit more pop.

  19. Looking forward to watching opponents wiff on Dickey cheese.

  20. Way too much for a possible one year rental knuckleballer. I’m afraid he’ll get eaten alive in the American League! I’d offer Buck,Sierra and Happ!

  21. On an earlier post the Smasher mentioned KLaw tearing up dumb commenters on his espn pieces. Anyone know of any awesome examples? Much obliged

    • I’m having trouble coming up with them off the top of my head but he’s well worth the Insider fee to read his articles. You also get Buster Olney and Jim Bowden, not to mention the magazine itself emailed to you.

      He’s very quick witted, he can carve a guy horribly, yet it will come off poetic.

      He’s Small Potatoes lite.

      I still say S.P. needs his own blog.

  22. I can run like the wind but I also swing at only wind… Blow me away before others catch my drift.

  23. Every time the Jays are rumoured in something, nothing happens. I’d have more hope for the Jays to land Dickey if no one was mentioning them as a potential landing place.

  24. If the Jays were to pick up Dicky, who would catch? Can any John Buck or TDA catch a knuckleballer?

    • It would be cool if it turned out to be Whiteside’s claim to fame.

    • We could call up Sal Fasano every fifth day and DH for him. Dickey can smash with the twig, .182 average, or better known as Lind against a lefty.

      • Nice one Smasher. Of course the sun is over your yardarm 3 hours earlier that out here on the best coast, giving you a sometimes insurmountable advantage.

  25. fuck it, lets just sign Charlie Hough. dickley or dickels or whoever he is is almost the same age as Hough! its the old Bundeeb switcharoo trick, thats how I acquired my 12th wife Sanjeet

  26. The problem with Dickey being 38 is not that he’s in decline, it’s more that it took him 38 years to learn how to be a good pitcher. There is just so much risk of regression there that I don’t even know if I’d give up JPA for one year of him. He might end up being worse than Happ

  27. i have more confidence right now in Happ than I do from what Romero was bringing all last year

  28. I mentioned this already but if Dickey is anything like Wakefield, he will pitch like an above average pitcher for another 4 years – Wakefield averaged 2 WAR over 4 season from age 39 to 42. I dont imagine the Jays extending Dickey anymore than 3 with an option for 4th

    So let’s imagine JP turns into a consistent 2 WAR catcher for the next 4 years of control – have to work from the basis of how possible it would be JPA can indeed sustain a 2 WAR over 4 years vs. Dickey becoming significantly shittier than his last 3 years where he definitely was more than a 2 WAR pitcher and figure out what the difference would cost the Jays in terms of pieces to add

    Sierra? Yea, I’d do that without blinking

    Rajai? Looking at a 1 WAR type of 4th OF’er – valuable, but expendable for the Jays – I’d do it

    Gose? If he learns to hit we’re looking at a possible 2 WAR player in his last 3 years of control – he put up almost half a WAR just stealing bases and playing D in limited time this year – I’d question whether I want to do that

    But from the Mets point of view, they see Dickey as a guy who will probably be worth 3 WAR for the next 3 years so I can see why they’d demand a Gose and JPA and then work down from there based on what offers they get

    • should read better than avg above replacement

    • The problem is the Jays already have a 2-3 WAR pitcher in Happ. So if that’s all you think Dickey is, then that’s a bit of a waste, no?

      Maybe that’s why AA keeps saying he’s just looking to add depth…

      • Happ’s put up over 2 WAR only once in his career . . .

        Although I think it’s possible he could be a 2 WAR player, that’s more of a best case scenario that involves him winning the last spot on the rotation or not getting bumped off completely by another trade/signing

        Dickey is a 2 WAR player on “average” – not worst case scenario, but if he were to have an ok season he’d be able to put that up based on his last 3 yrs

        • Dickey over Happ is irrelevant unless your assuming no injuries all year long to your starters.

          And Gose is likely a 2-3 WAR player without any value from his bat. If he becomes a .250/.330/.400 guy (which he could) that’s a hell of an asset.

          You’re severely underestimating his potential with your numbers.

          In summary: Get Dickey. Keep Gose. Trade JPA. Bench Lind.

  29. There is no goddamn way the Jays are going to get the 2nd best pitcher in the NL for JPA and Gose.

    • Except, he wasn’t the 2nd best in the NL. Not even top 5.

      • First in strikeouts, first in shutouts, won the Cy Young. Yeah you’re right, not even top five.

        • What, no mention of his win totals either?

          • Lol you think that K’s and shutouts are on par with pitcher W’s when it comes to futility in judging talent/worth.

          • When there’s far better indicators to judge talent/value, yes, I find those stats to be on par- less so K totals, but K% is better.

            Miley
            Lee
            Kershaw
            Gio

            These 4 clearly had better years, and arguments could be made for Wainwright and Cuento. This was also the only year Dickey had a FIP under 3.5. I really like him, but some people seem to overvalue him because of his Cy win.

          • holy fucking baseball snobs…go choke on you Xfip and Dwar scrotum shitballs…EH Must be nice sitting up there on your big sack of balls. To bad one nice placed….oh never mind. Back to more Jays porn.

  30. For a comp what you can expect JPA to fetch in a trade look at the deal that sent Chris Iannetta (a better player, historically, than JPA) to the Angles. The Rockies got Tyler Chatwood. That’s the market for an average catcher. Fans are dreaming if they think JPA is going to bring back anyone very good.

  31. Arencibia gets moved.

  32. Happ is absolutely fine as the 5th starter, just as long as Romero returns to something resembling pre-2012 Romero. If not, then, well…

  33. JA Happ’s one good year in the majors came with a historically high strand rate that proved to be completely unsustainable, like anyone with half a brain could have predicted. He’s a bad pitcher.

  34. I like the Jays rotation as it is now, anyways. If the team is really worried about Romero, they should have him going back as part of the package.

    A lot of this all comes down to how the Jays internally view their own players and prospects. We can identify certain tendencies that they like / prefer but they view it as a competitive advantage to find where values don’t line up between the trading teams and find value.

    Things we know:
    they like taller players over shorter players
    they like at least mid-power arms in the bullpen with a devastating out pitch
    they like switch hitters
    they like speed
    they like pitchers with four pitches or can be taught a change up to make four
    they like make up (but how much is really difficult to determine)
    they like overall athleticism in their players

    • Comparing to my list

      Dickey is 6’2″ so not bad but not great if the team wants to have a huge investment.
      His 2010-2011 k/9 was about five-and-a-half.
      Is his knuckleball a devastating pitch going forward is a good question that pitch f/x guys would need to analyze.
      He could still develop a change-up.
      He’s 38 so his athleticism probably isn’t up there. Buerhle is a veteran but a Gold Glover out there on defense.

      Based on what we know, there is of course a possibility the team is interested as he is available; however, since he will be a significant investment to acquire and sign, I would doubt the club is going to make a move for him.

      • Dickey can throw a changeup, as well as a two seamer, four seamer, plus a variety of knuckleballs. He was a “normal” pitcher drafted in the first round.

    • I’m not trying to be an internet tough guy, but can you name any teams that wouldn’t give an Amen to any and all of your attributes?

  35. There’s no way in hell the Jays should be on any talks for Dickey, he’s 38 yrs old for christsakes! Keep Arencibia, why is everyone in a rush to trade him? And deal Rasmus? Are you fucking kidding me? Let AA run the club, he’s done a fine job so far..

    • Everyone is in a rush to trade JPA because there may be a glimmer of a chance that some idiot GM out there still thinks he’s a prospect based off his gaudy numbers repeating AAA in the PCL and/or thinks that RBIs are an indication of hitting skill and may be willing to give up a player above replacement value for him. IF WE’RE LUCKY. That window isn’t going to be open anymore after he puts up another embarrassing year for the Jays in 2013.

    • I for one do not think Rasmus is ever going to be anything stupendous. In many ways it can be argued he is somewhat like JPA in that everyone has seen glimmers of brilliance and tends to remember those times over the multiple stretches he has had here and in STL where he was just plain shit.
      So.. we could argue that now is the time to trade Colby as well. As i’ve said before I am really ambivalent about it, but if the NYM want him I would have to listen that’s for sure

      • fukstik my friend:

        Whether or not Cletus elevates his game into the ‘stupendous’ stratosphere (just how good does one have to be to achieve this state?), I’d have to guess that we’d be trading him at a low water mark.
        I’m still a big fan–Cletus is NOT a fukstik.

        (Be that as it may, of course AA should listen to any and all offers.)

        • cletus actually has showed signs that he can be a major league hitter, something Gose hasn’t done yet. similar defense, but cletus probably has a better bat.

          • He should also improve by not being in the spotlight as much. He and Lawrie could really be the guys who most benefit from “The Trade 2012″.

        • Point made. As you know I have yet to formerly classify him as a fukstik, but he is on his way there if he has another shitfaced season. I w/b more than happy to eat crow if I’m wrong but if he does shit the bed again he will have no value at all.
          Then AA’s new song would have to be “won’t get fooled again”

  36. It’s so hard to find a catcher that can hit, and it’s pretty obvious at this point that Arencibia is a good example of this so he is going to be moved at some point in the near future with TDA behind him, not even he can be that dumb to not realize that.

    Speaking of TDA, does anyone else think that Darren Fletcher would be a good comp? Darren was very underrated imo.

  37. Over the last three years RAD has thrown 616 innings with an ERA+ of 129. He’s not some one year wonder. Given how much free agent pitchers are demanding (4/48 is an “insult” to Sanchez) The Mets are entitled to ask for a premium.

    I’d go as far as JPA/Sierra/B Prospect. I think someone will top that. Likely whoever loses out on Greinke between L.A/Texas.

  38. RA Dickey is a completely unique case. He throws a pitch that has never been thrown before. He has an arm that has never been seen before. If he ages like a normal knuckleballer then being 38 is nothing…

    Nobody here can really predict how quickly he may regress or what his age means to his worth. All we know is that he’s been extremely durable since 2010 while being a very very good pitcher. Meanwhile our prospects reeeaaalllllly aren’t as good as a lot of commenters here seem to think (d’Arnaud is obviously a Big Deal if his leg allows him to remain at catcher for the rest of his career but after that meh). Give ‘em whatever they want. RA Dickey is a stud and we have no reason to believe otherwise.

    • The reason to believe otherwise is exactly what you say.

      He’s a completely unique case and there aren’t any good comparables to help predict his future performance.

      Which is why, supposedly, teams are willing to give up more for Jon Niese than Dickey.

      Is there a single major league player that has been connected to a Dickey trade other than JPA? To me, that’s an indication that his value obviously isn’t that high. Teams are willing to give their lottery ticket prospects, but probably not even their best ones.

      • The risk/reward is pretty damn high for Dickey. Nothing suggests he is just going to fall off a cliff. If Dickey continues doing what he has done for the next 2-3 years then the Jays could get an ace for non blue chip young players and he won’t even command the $20 Million+ that other aces do. Given that the team is built to win now (the clock is ticking on Bautista’s elite status, Johnson isn’t signed long term) I think going for Dickey puts the Jays over the top and makes them a world series contender.

        • Hey I’m all for going after Dickey if the price is reasonable, which I think it will be.

          But I certainly wouldn’t overpay for him. If another teams wants to give up 2 top 50 prospects & a top 100 prospect, for example, more power to them.

      • If putting a dude’s name in brackets in a tweet is connecting a name to a player then yes, numerous major league names have been connected to a Dickey deal.

        Skewing towards a negative prediction for the rest of Dickey’s career is the reason these rumours are as reasonable as they are and not five of the Jays top 7 prospects like with, say, Sabathia, Lee or Santana (it’s also pertinent to point out that none of those prospects panned out. another reason that prospects are for trading).

  39. Arencibia get moved and it will be a bigger move than just RAD.

  40. I’d rather the club go a different route (I.e. sign a FA SP) than deal our CF, C or the whole farm system we just spent the last 4 years building.) Rogers has the money to sign someone. But that’s just my opinion.

    Love all the discussion on here in any event.

  41. JPA + Gose could be a steal if Dickey is re-signed, I don’t think it is a steep price at all. What chance is there that Gose turns into an above average everyday cf? Or will he be a career 4th outfielder similar to Davis? Gose and JPA could be worth peanuts in 2-3 years from now. I think it is better to gamble on proven elite ability over potential, especially if the team is looking to make the playoffs and then win in the playoffs.

    The chances that Gose + JPA provide more value than Dickey over the next 3 years or so seems very slim to me (that is assuming Dickey is re-signed).

    • Even if that is a fair trade, and it very well may be one, why pay that much more than anyone else if you don’t have to? I certainly don’t think Dickey is so valuable that the Jays should make sure they get him regardless of the cost.

      • I’m not the guy in the negotiating room, obviously if AA is serious about getting Dickey he will only pay as much as he has to. If I were the GM I would definitely put that offer up on the table if nothing else was getting it done though.

  42. Well, I am not willing to give up the farm for RA Dickey but I am open to moving JPA. However, JPA seems awfully confident he will still be here when the season opens, and if there is a rumour of a Jays move, it usually doesn’t happen. Just spit balling, but if this IS real then why not JPA + A far away prospect + a closer less high upside prospect. So I am thinking RA Dickey for JPA, Deck Mcguire or Sean Nolin, and lets say Matt Smoral? Would that satisfy them or no?

    • I think the Mets want major leaguers, or prospects that are quite close. Outfielders are a need for them, thus Gose is probably something they would be interested in.

    • I don’t think the Mets would trade their superstar pitcher for a pile of mid-range prospects and a really really bad catcher, no.

      • funny how several in this thread think that Gose+JPA for Dickey is an overpayment and a bad idea. who knows what the Mets will eventually get? I hope AA tries his best to get him though

    • Smoral cannot be traded yet as one year has not elapsed. Can’t see him being moved yet after giving him 2m

  43. Riddle me this – if A.A. acquires R.A. to replace J.A. in the rotation by trading J.P., will J.J. and E.E. be happy?

  44. Is it possible that the Mets are intentionally leaking some of these rumoured trade matchups to artificially inflate the market? Like, even if 90% of teams say they’re crazy, if just one team bites on the bait that it takes AT LEAST two key prospects to get Dickey, then the Mets come out on top. If not, they’ll just go back to more reasonable expectations.

  45. Go all in Alex. ALL IN! Dickey gets us a ticket to the dance.

  46. I have an idea guys, lets trade JPA and Sanchez to the reds for Homer Bailey.

    • Agreed. People are acting like this is the only possible deal all of a sudden. Not saying this is possible but if the media thinks AA is in on Dickey- he’s probably not.

  47. I still think people are overlooking the fact that Rasmus is far likelier to be moved that Gose. The Mets want proven major league value as well as prospects (Alderson said it yesterday) in a package back and Rasmus fits there better than Gose. Also, I don’t see Alex moving Gose since he seems to value speed and stolen bases much higher (as is most of the league, according to several reports) and couple that with the fact that A.A. seems to believe in Gose a lot (bringing him up before Snider this year). I just don’t see Gose moving, and if anyone is in a package for a pitcher, I think it would be Rasmus.

    And I would give up Rasmus+D’Arnaud+ Sanchez to get Dickey. Yep, I’m crazy.

  48. Why lose Gose and JP when you could sign McCarthy for cash? He’d be cheaper and leave you trade chips to plug holes at the deadline.

  49. The line in one of my posts giving Wakefield’s career indoors is a bit convoluted.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4906/splits?year=career&type=Pitching

    He’s definitely pitched better indoors over his career. Dickey’s the better pitcher now, obviously.

    I think Dickey’s last two years speak for themselves. He’s figured it out, and he’s now one of the best. He’s probably not going to leave on a long-term contract after ’12 because he’ll be 39 at the end of next year. The Mets can’t really demand a ton for him because of his free agent status. He would give the Jays (possibly) the best rotation in baseball (certainly neck in neck with the Rays, and the Jays have a much better lineup)

    Its kind of a unique situation here, and I hope (and I’m sure) A.A. is right in the middle of it.

    • All of a sudden you’re not bat shit crazy.
      That’s damned near eloquent.

      (But not at the cost of Rasmus/D’Arnaud/Sanchez. No siree Bob.)

  50. You guys wouldn’t want one of the best pitchers in baseball over the last 2 years for an average CF (when you have one waiting in the wings) D’Arnaud and an A ball pitcher?

    Before everyone hits me with love for D’Arnaud, compare his minor league stats with Arencibia’s. D’Arnaud’s are marginally better.

    • d’Arnaud+ for Dickey isn’t going to happen

    • comparing their minor league stats means shit…its what u show up with in the The Show that matters. So as or right now we most liekly know what JPA has to offer in the majors. With d’Arnaud having a better chance to gamble on with a higher ceiling projected for his future. Point is. gamble on either end. I’d rather take the gamble on the ceiling than what i already know of JPA.

  51. Well it’s pretty much impossible for the Jays to stay out of rumors now considering what they’ve pulled off the last three weeks. With their payroll where it is now, they’re going to be linked to every big name.

    Also, my point earlier was that if they do trade for pitching it’ll be Rasmus and not Gose leaving, which is contrary to the reports having Gose as a main trade piece.

    • Stop it Petey.
      The Jays are constantly in the rumor mill because of the cloak of silence.Agents and rival GM’s use this to drive up the prices on players,knowing that AA will neither confirm or deny the rumour.

      Psst. my cousin tells me the Jays are trying to trade for Verlander then they’re gonna trade Happ and 2 minor leagers for King Felix.
      And Gose ain’t ready, until he is, Rasmus is your man.

      • Jesus RADAR, how did you do that?

        Stopped him dead in his tracks!

        Petey is one excitable boy, but his heart’s in the right place.
        If he was half as good at recognizing the level of talent he is so willing to throw away for the talent he wishes to acquire, he’d blush.

        • Love the passion he exudes.
          Great to see new people on the site.
          We’re all at different levels of learning about the game ( except for BFF who claims he’s rarely wrong).
          I know it’s cliche but I never stop learning about it.

  52. A friend in Seattle was saying there’s talk of Areincibia and Josh Johnson for Felix Hernandez. It doesn’t make sense though with Seattle solid at catcher. Thought i’d pass it on anyway.

    • Too many Starbucks.
      Too much caffeine.
      Too little sense.

      ~~~although~~~
      Too many arms.

      Make it so, #2.

  53. Anyone else the most excellent trade proposal ever on TSN comments section for the Whiteside pick-up…wait for it…

    Buck for Dickey..straight up!…I even think they were serious.

    • Another idea lets not do anything till the season starts and lose all of our starters to injury again. This is a huge year for the jays which is why I say lets spend more. If they crush the hopes of many fans again, whose to say that these banwagoners will support the jays. Whose to say the jays dont fall into expo territory.

  54. Am I missing something here? JPA and possibly Gose plus others for Dickey? Ok, I get he’s a 20+ win pitcher but he’s fucking 38yo… Why would we give up so much? Not sure if the Rays need a catcher but just for example why not JPA, Gose plus others for Price?… I just get the concept of trading more of our youth for a player that’s a few years from retirement.

  55. Dickey or the Doc? Who would you rather have? Both are free agents after 2013, right?
    I’m certain the good doctor is coming home, eventually…

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