Monday was not a particularly eventful first day of the Winter Meetings, though that didn’t seem to have much of an impact on the post count around here, as all kinds of things happened quickly, and all kinds of interesting tidbits came to the fore. Some of them, it turns out, may have gotten a bit lost in translation– or, at the very least, lost when being condensed into 140 characters– as, thanks to the excellent work of Gregor Chisholm at his North of the Border blog, we can see a full transcript of comments Alex Anthopous made when speaking to the media earlier.

Here are a few spots that ought to be noted, given some of the other things posted here over the course of Day One…

Payroll Parameters

Those old ominous feelings started creeping into our previous post, after Shi Davidi suggested over at Sportsnet that it would be “a tough sell” for the club to go back to ownership for more money, after leaving the previously-set payroll ballpark in the dust after the Marlins trade. The raw quote, as Gregor transcribes it, however, softens Davidi’s harsh buzz considerably, I think.

The relevant passage begins when Anthopoulos is asked about adding “depth to rotation, minor league free agents, why not aim higher?”

I think you can do both. I always get asked about payroll and it’s not a bottomless pit and we talked about the parameters or the areas, and for where we’re at now, we blew by whatever the area was, that’s in the dust, the rear-view mirror of where I thought we were going to be. The Marlins trade really changed that. It’s not a bottomless pit but I also know the right trade, the right player, I always have that ability to have the conversation with Paul and he in turn takes that up to ownership.

I mean… that doesn’t really sound so bad at all, does it? And it seems to be all assumption– a fair one, knowing how they’ve operated– when Davidi suggests adding dollars will be a tough sell (assuming that all he’s basing it on is the quotes given).

In fact, he adds that, “if somebody came up that would push someone out of the rotation, great, I just don’t necessarily see that occurring, and we’re happy with the talent of the starting five.”

So… J.A. Happ is spared from being thrown under the bus, but I’m not sure anything else has really happened in this statement.

 

Adam Lind

Well holy shit, here’s where Twitter’s limitations really come into focus, as the notion– which maaaay have set me off earlier in the day– that Adam Lind is again being gifted some ridiculous amount of rope appears to be pretty much entirely untrue.

To wit:

Platoon partner for Lind a top priority?

I think Davis certainly can do that. We’ve talked about it, I think Gibby’s thought – we were talking about it a little bit today – I think his thought would be to give him one more crack at facing some left-handers early but knowing that obviously we have some other options. But his thought today, and obviously he’ll make those decisions going forward and he could change his mind in the spring and during the season, but he did bring it up today that he thought you know what, maybe to let those guys get the Abs early even against some left-handers, take a look at the results and maybe then make the adjustment, but clearly you look at the left-right splits and we do have some options with some right-handed bats and we’ve looked at who’s our 25th guy going to be and it might make sense to get a right-handed bat. We don’t really have anybody right now who would be the 25th guy.

I mean… that’s way, way softer than the hysteria-inducing tweets we were fed on Monday afternoon.

Gibbers is just kinda sorta thinking about giving him “one more crack,” but only “early,” and things can still change, and there are lots of other options– because “clearly you look at the left-right splits and” Adam Lind fucking sucks against left-handers– and a right-handed bat still to come for the bench???

Fine!

And… uh… y’know… that stuff from earlier… um… disregard?

 

Arencibia

Not to too terribly pound the living fuck out of this dead horse, but as you may have sensed earlier, JP Arencibia’s confidence thoroughly confuses me– which, again, isn’t to say I think he must be wrong, just that the guarantee he’s expecting us to believe he’s received doesn’t seem like something the club would have given.

This exact kind of issue was addressed during the media scrum when Alex Anthopoulos was asked about Carlos Villanueva– currently a free agent, but a player with whom the Jays appear to have had at least some level of contract discussions during the season.

“I told him this during the summer, that the reason I couldn’t lock into a spot is one, if I did, I would keep my word to him,” the GM explained, “but I didn’t want to be prevented if a trade presented itself, all of a sudden we made a commitment and I had to turn down a trade.”

Right? Because nobody could possibly know what kind of fantastic deals might come about as teams move forward, acting and reacting to each other through out the off-season, and it would have been horribly irresponsible of him as an executive to make some kind of verbal guarantee that could have prevented him from making his club better– just as he ultimately decided it would be irresponsible to let the fact that he’d signed Jeff Mathis to a multi-year extension prevent him from making The Trade happen.

It just doesn’t make sense that things are the way Arencibia says they are, especially because– as Anthopoulos himself points out– the market is extremely volatile and constantly changing. Asked if acquiring a front-line starter was a possibility, the GM told reporters he felt it was unlikely, but made clear to leave open the possibility that even he doesn’t know everything that’s going on.

“If something changed tonight, tomorrow, the day after,” he said. “I just think there is so much going on. There’s so many teams having dialogue it’s hard to really pin anybody down.”

Right? And certainly not pre-arb catchers who’ve yet to crack the .285 OBP mark and have two viable-ish replacements already on the roster.

I’m not saying Arencibia will get dealt– odds are he won’t– but, again, I refuse to believe that because he says so there’s zero chance of it happening. I’d believe Anthopoulos, if he said it, but I have a ridiculously hard time imagining he ever would– certainly not publicly, and  probably not privately, either. I could be way wrong on that, but saying he knows things just seems to me to be a somewhat clever way for Arencibia to deflect the torrent of innuendo that’s flowed in his direction. At the moment, I simply can’t believe it.

So… there’s that.

Comments (103)

  1. wow new posts everytime I look, epic DJF day

  2. Fake trade scenario Jp Aaron Sanchez, Rasmus ?, ? For Nolasco and his contract and Giancarlo ( call me mike one more time Beinfest, I dare you) Stanton. Melk man play CF, yes willing to make that sacrifice for Giancarlo and I’m not alone, eh Drew.

  3. Stoeten, do you sleep? Seems Luke you’re working around the clock. Keep up the good work

  4. Great post Stoeten. If you look at where the Jays were at the All Star break, and how much they’ve improved, while giving up very little in the way of impact players, there’s real reason to be excited again. I don’t think AA is done yet but what do any of us know? Thanks for the insight on what was said versus what others said AA said! Well said!

    • I don’t think even AA knows what will happen. The Trade seemed to develop very quickly. Anything can happen.

  5. So it wasn’t even bullshit posturing from AA about Lind. It was just the media fitting the response to an easy narrative.

    There’s absolutely no way AA lets Lind cost this team runs by hitting him against LHP in 2013.

  6. With Arencibia, I think it’s pretty obvious that AA would never tell a player he wouldn’t be traded. Doing so would be goes contrary to everything he has ever said about trading players and how there are never any “untouchables.” He just can’t make that kind of promise. No, I imagine he just told JPA after the trade that he was the starter and that Buck was the backup to clarify the situation (as Buck was the more expensive veteran with an actual history of starting in front of JPA).

    JP is likely just responding to the trade rumours in a way that many in his situation would…defensively. I wouldn’t waste any more words on his words.

  7. AA has become a compulsive liar. It’s quite comical. Both the pitching coach and trainer are fired but AA says the injuries had nothing to do with it. Riiiiiiigght

  8. People don’t seem to understand that maybe beeston is the one that said JPA will not be traded? Beeston is the one that looks at the big picture like marketing and ticket sales and he’s not going to trade the golden goose. So it’s pretty much assured that beeston told AA not to trade JPA unless he got something ginormous.

  9. Jays have offered contract to reed johnson.

  10. stoeten seems incapable of understanding basic concepts. AA told JPA that the only way he would trade him is for a young front line controllable starter which isn’t happening so OBVIOUSLY he isn’t going anywhere. No other GM is giving that up for JPA. When’s the last time AA traded a young controllable starter? Never happened. Is this too difficult to understand?

  11. I’ve previously written somewhere (not gonna link) possible useful pickups that AA can get for the DH.

    Mark Reynolds as fantasy dream (provides depth at corner infield positions, will have higher value from not shitting it up in the field every day, can easily take over).

    Ty Wigginton as realistically possible option (again, provides depth at corner infield as well as emergency options almost everywhere else, high walk rate and OPS against lefties, Phillies declining $4M option meaning he might sign for that or less).

    Juan Rivera as begrudging acceptance option (very low strikeout rate/high contact rate could have him perform well in very limited role, would be very cheap but provides little 1B experience).

    Finally, Lind + whoever for Justin Morneau as “Muh Maple Dick!” option.

    Thoughts?

    • Should note, I prefaced this saying that AA doesn’t need to make a move and all of these options would be roster niceties.

    • mark reynolds is a worse 3B than EE.

      • Reynolds fantasy value is not same as his on the field value – power always gets the highest nod which is why he – and guys like Lind – continue to see mostly full time at bats.

        Just look at the 3 big CF moves this offseason – Upton gets paid the most, largely because of his power potential

        Some team hungry for power will find a way to play Reynolds every day – he wont be an option for the Jays as a bench bat

      • he’s a 1b/DH now, if I’m not mistaken

  12. Adam Lind is like your current girlfriend who was hot 3 years ago, so while even in the McDonalds drive-thru with her for the THIRD time that day, you refuse to acknowledge that at the very least, she needs a tummy tuck.

  13. If Rogers was willing to take on Morneau’s giant salary, if only for fan service, it would be awesome to watch. The money could be spent in much better ways though.

    • Maybe it’s my maple boner gushing gooey canadian syrup, but if Morneau can be had for just money, I don’t see any reason not to take the plunge.

    • You know what would be awesome to watch? A winning team making the playoffs. It would NOT be awesome to watch a team of Canadian players doing an “average” job of winning 81 games or less…get off the Canadian bacon train!

      • You’re 100 % bang on with that. Fair enough if you disagree but Maple Boner aside, I still think Morneau has something to give.

        We’re talking aboot(eh) a former MVP whose regression is based more on injury than age or lack of talent and who could (potentially) be had for peanuts…..which is perfect since Lind’s a clown.

        • @Rance Mulliniks Morneau is a glorified platoon player at this point as well, his struggles against lefties are just as pronounced as Lind’s are since his concussion. Taking on double the salary to still have a platoon first baseman makes no sense.

        • Even in his MVP year he didn’t really have an MVP-caliber year.

      • the hypothetical was seeing Morneau instead of Lind

  14. The only R.A. Dickey rumours coming your way are from Jack-offs.

  15. Well, maybe AA needs to directly comment on what JPAP has been saying to put this all to rest.

  16. According to ESPN Yunel is hours away from being traded – thinking the A’s.

    • Would hate to see him on the Rays, because that would almost guarantee a bounce-back season. It’s a shame he was managed by Farrell, would have been interesting to see what Gibbons could have done with him.

    • Stark says 4 teams in on Escobar: A’s, Rays, Yankees, Cubs. Take it for what you will.

      • Give him to the cubs, please. We may be glad to have got him out of Toronto, but there’s a pretty good player in beneath the twat-ish exterior.

        • Agreed, please to the cubs. As soon as it came out that the Marlins would be looking at moving him you just knew the Rays and A’s would be all over that team friend contract.

  17. sign delmon young for one year w option, a couple of lower tier AAAA pitchers for protection, carlos V for long innings relief/emergency start, and call it a day.

  18. While I think you’re doing an exceptional job, Stoeten, you might want to take a breather.
    You post the Lind nonsense about him facing lefties, when the entire world knows that it’s just not gonna happen. Of course they’re gonna say that they’ll give him a shot early (it’s called spring TRAINING). What the fuck else are they gonna say about their highly-paid mistake?
    You keep making posts based on vague tweets and you’re gonna have to keep making retraction posts the next day.
    Anyways, great work.

    • …unless you get paid by the word. In which case, fuck it. Get paid homie.

      • This quote from Fantrax

        Blue Jays manager John Gibbons said the current plan is to start Adam Lind at first base against both right- and left-handers. This, despite, Lind’s woeful career .220/.264/.343 batting line against southpaws. Gibbons did note that the Jays could eventually adjust things, which they seem likely to do. Lind batted just .255/.314/.414 with 11 homers in 2012 for Toronto

        Take it for what you want but even if they do make a change due to the likely poor performance of Lind vs lefties, it will be a reactionary change at the time, not proactive.

        Does Lind have pictures of AA and Beeston in bed with a farm animal or something?

  19. Arencibia probably helps AA pick up chicks and the wingman never gets traded.

  20. I wonder now many extra page hits Rogers is getting from the Jays ever since the big deal – with no hockey too boot – Sportsnet could literally churn out an article every hour with all the rumours flying, reflection on the trade, soundbites from AA, etc

    In a way, the longer the Jays do nothing, now that they’ve made their initial big splash, the more people will speculate and keep refreshing the site looking for updates.

  21. Nightengale calls out a mystery team on Anibal – no mention of the Jays – considering he’s been linked to the Jays before I’m surprised they are not listed as one of the teams “in” on Sanchez

    I wonder if most reporters are giving up on the Jays rumour mongering – seemed like last year Jays were in on every player, whereas this year with the big trade, they’ve only been linked mainly thru pure speculation from media and bloggers, more like fantasizing, as opposed to suggesting something’s brewing. Even with Dickey, it’s been mostly fan fueled speculation and just some “insiders” recently suggesting Jays were interested

    Otherwise most of the sports writers have only been talking about the Jays trading a catcher consistently

  22. Hats off to the Nationals. Awesome pickup in Haren. There’s your NL favourites right there imo if not the WS favourites.

  23. Dan Haren signs with the Nationals for pne year and 13 millon, funny how no one wanted him at 11 million when the angels were shopping him and now after what Guthrie singed for the Nationals are like Harena t 13 million, come on down.

    • $13 M is pretty rich. More than I though he would get which was 8-10M.

      • http://tinyurl.com/ch8lsep

        Considering what Greinke and Sanchez are going to get, $13 million is pretty decent and that’s with the injury risk factored in imo. Even with his down season in 2012 he’s been equal to the two guys that are going to get contracts that dwarf his.

        • I don’t think it’s a bad contract but any team could have gotten him for 11 million for 2013 and a club option for 15 in 2014. He was cheaper when the Angesl were shopping him.
          Dan Haren made more money being bought out for 3.5 million and then signing for 13 millon… good agent.

      • He was almost traded a month ago with a $15m contract. $13m seems pretty reasonable.

        • Angels were going to chip in the 3.5 millon for any team just to get something back in a trade. Meaning Haren would have cost less in October than the now.

          • $11.5m plus a prospect. Now he signs for $13m and no prospect.

          • @Gil Carlos Marmol is not a prospect and since teams knew they were buying him out it wasn’t a secret and told teams they’d chip in the buyout a high or even mid level prospect was not comin gtheir way and they(angels) knew that. I think the Angels just wanted something anything becasue they knew he wasn’t going to be with them in 2013.

  24. AA on Blair, I tell every player to expet to be on the open roster but I promise them nothing, I know trades happen, they come out of the blue. None of our players have no trade calsues. Called JP after Miami trade to tell him that he’s their opening starter, but I don’t promise anyone anything.

  25. AA on Blair, We are not involved in any significant trade talks(Doesn’t say any trade talks, who knows what’s significant to him) Does not see this team being involved in a bidding war for a free agent Pitcher, but then leaves the door open by saying if it’s the right player, and the right amount, maybe but unlikely.(Doesn’t rule it out completely)

    • Unlikely generally means he’s done with the free agent pool. There’s not much money left, and should be allocated toward depth moves.

      • Meaning that Lyon/frasor will only be back if Oliver leaves/retires

      • He clealry left the door open for a free agent SP since the question was asked if you would get involved with a bidding war for a free agent, saying unlikely doesn’t close the door on that or anything. AA won’t tell us what he is or isn’t doing. He’s saying minor depth moves and could be trading Roy halladay like a couple years ago, the beauty of him is he doesn’t steer you into what he’s really or isn’t really doing.

        • @East

          Most likely. Those guys would be commanding ~$5M each, and there’s really no point to going that route when there’s guys who are younger, cheaper, and quite possibly have better stuff already in the pen.

          @Maybe

          What else to you expect him to say? Publicly stating that the FA door is closed is bad for business. Reality is, if the Jays want to take on another contract, they’d have to move salary first, which is highly unlikely given that the payroll has already increased by something like 30%.

  26. Wilner blue Jays will not be involved in any SP free agents at any price.
    REALLY, Happ can’t be your 5 starter if you want to win the divison. Yes you could do worse yes Romero might not bounce back, yes Happ had good starts, but he was fucking terrible in the NL.

    • What’s the ETA on any of our SP arms that were destroyed last summer? Mid-season? Maybe it’s only a half year of Happ.

  27. Nats paid Haren about the same as Kuroda got from the Yanks

    I think that’s pretty good and yea considering what some other guys like Anibal might get, I’d gladly give him that on a 1 yr deal

    Seems to me that Haren went to one of the best teams possible to re-establish himself and hope for a bigger contract next year. No doubt there were other teams with similar offers on the table, but can’t blame him for wanting to go to the Nats, they really do look like WS contenders

  28. Michael Young as a DH platoon/super utility?

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/quick-hits-young-chacin-floyd-royals.html

    He was horrible last year, value could be low – don’t know what the Rangers would ask but it’s clear he’s pretty expendable on that team now

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