Bob Elliott chatted with readers today over at the Toronto Sun, and while it may┬ábe true that I took something of a mocking tone yesterday when I linked to a previous chat, today I’m going to go with a different approach, because it turns out he’s let loose all kinds of interesting tidbits in there.

To wit:

On starting pitching:

“They are looking for better than Marcum.”

Names of interest on that front, he says, are “Dickey, Niese, [Wade] Davis.”

“It would be nice [to keep Arencibia and Rasmus], but they are looking for a No. 1 guy. Right now they have a lot of No. 3s or maybe Morrow is a No. 2 and Johnson could be if his shoulder allows him to add missing MPH.”

Related to that, he explains that he’s “talked to a GM who said Gose was best long term, Rasmus best to have for this yr. Another said Tor has enough offence it could move both Gose and JP.”

“They have been trying on Dickey, but as the old saying goes you need 6 starters to start spring training — only 5 will be healthy opening day.”

And as for Arencibia and Gose for Dickey, he is “told yes it gets it done, but Mets still looking for better offers.”

“Have not heard his name of late,” he says of a potential play for Brandon McCarthy. And on Joe Saunders he adds, “they spoke to his agent at GMs meetings.”


On position player rumours:

“They were this AM,” he says when asked whether the Braves want Emilio Bonifacio. “They think he would steal 75-80 bags. But the Jays are not trading him.”

Responding to a question about a crazy Cliff Lee for Jacoby Ellsbury suggestion, Elliot notes that the “Phillies have looked at Fowler, Rasmus and other CFs.”

“Unless someone has a no trade clause why would GM ever guarantee trades or non trades,” he says of the confidence JP Arencibia has displayed regarding his place on the team.

“They did talk to Texas about Profar and were told no,” he says.

Asked what the big deal with d’Arnaud is, Elliott explains that “they say he is a better receiver, has a better arm, will hit for a better AVG, but JP has more pop.”


On payroll:

“That’s a secret,” he says of what’s left. “But they could handle Dickey’s $5M.”

“Think he can add some … but they’re roughly at $120. They won’t go a lot higher.”


There is a lot more in there than just this, so go have a read of the whole thing– especially if you’re not quite finished pining for RA Dickey– who, incidentally, and as many have pointed out, mentioned the possibility of landing in Toronto last night in an appearance on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Now, it was an entirely off-hand comment– frankly, it sounded like he mentioned the frightening (to him) possibility of landing in either Toronto or L.A., due to all the godless heathens– but still… interesting. Maybe he an Elliott have some of the same sources. Because there sure seems like there might be more interest there than the club is letting on. And the stuff that makes it sounds like a Arencibia/Gose deal is possibly even on the table and the Mets are fishing for better returns? That’s very interesting– y’know, if you can be bothered to buy it.


(c/g to @BringVottoHome for the tip)

Comments (70)

  1. Last august I was in the underground parkade beneath the dome an hour or two after a game. Bob Elliott was just leaving and sort of gave us an awkward wave as he walked to his car, as if we were all waiting around just to see him come out. I waved back. It was awesome. That is the end of my story.

    • Reminds me of the time I saw Tabs after a game. I was pretty drunk and yelled “TAAABBBS!” from a few meters away, and he waved. I can’t remember much else from that game, or even how I got home, but I saw Tabs.

      • I passed Billy Martin outside Exhibition Stadium before a Jays Yankee game. He winked at my breasts.

        • I’d love a chance to do the same.

        • heh – digression from the Jays…. but that reminds me of the time my wife and I ran into Burt Reynolds in a NYC hotel – he must have been 5’5″ / half built of silicon / + had a tall blonde on each arm… and still had the cahones to give my girl the breast winks…

          I told her to go for it but she declined… sigh…

  2. This stuff is interesting but how often is elliot accurate? 2% of the time? He is good for collecting info after the fact like the jays marlins trade but hes no rosenthal. Come to think of it, no one on the the jays writers team is.

    • he broke the news of something big recently, can’t remember what it was though. maybe the farrell trade, but I thought it was more significant than that. regardless Bob is for sure on the more reliable end of baseball guys. if he is 2% accurate the rest are 0.000001% accurate

  3. I asked Dave Cameron in his chat at fangraphs:

    JP/Gose for Dickey….overpay for the Jays?

    His response, simply was “not enough”

    According to Elliott’s chat, it’s enough to get the trade done.

    I just cant get over that…not sure how i’d feel about the whole thing if it actually happened

    • I also tend to think its not enough. Jays would have to add a pitching prospect I think. Sean nolin?

    • Did you add up the WARs?

    • I dont see how thats not enough.. if anything its too much.

      no one is going to pay the ‘ace’ demands to the mets, because if you were going to give an ace like package for a pitcher, you’d want someone younger and with more control of those younger (peak) years

      JPA+Gose is the beginning of a deal for Latos or Gonzalez last year. Just doesn’t add up.

      • I think you are overvaluing gose and jp. Gose cant really hit. He strikes out a ton and doesnt have much pop. JP could very well turn out to be a backup catcher because of his poor approach at the plate and suspect d.

        • you trade your prospects base on potential.

          its irregardless that gose may never hit and JPA might be a back up catcher, their potential, age, and skill set make them valuable

          Travis Snider hasn’t hit much, doesn’t mean 3-4 years ago he didn’t have massive trade value.

          Don’t let your opinion of him influence what he currently is.

          • this is the reason why I think it would be a good gamble. hell even throw in a low end pitching prospect if they have to.

            odds are that Gose won’t be an above average every day player. I love the guy but with Melky, Bonifacio, Rasmus, and Davis he doesn’t figure well into the 2013 or 2014 picture.

            • Completely wrong.

              Gose is a highly ranked prospect because the odds are very good he becomes more than an everyday regular.

              And if he does improve his hitting (which he reasonably should) Davis, Melky, Bonifacio and even Rasmus will not block him

              Hell his OBP was higher than Colby’s last year. In his first year. At 21 years old. After a wicked bad start.

          • thats the reason you don’t do the trade

            because then when the trade deadline comes around, and teams like the phillies, or A’s or other teams fall out of the race and want to trade off impeding free agents or some salaries, you don’t have the depth to move anyone.

            you can’t blow your load to early to put it eloquently.

    • That’s because Cameron has equated Dickey to Adrian Gonzalez and thinks teams should pay a price similar to what the Sox gave up for him.

    • Dave Cameron, besides Alderson, is the person *most* saying, teams should pay big for Dickey.

  4. Does JP really have more pop?

    • That’s about all JP has going for him. He has a lot of power for a catcher, which provides the majority of his value.

      • but he’s mostly a mistake hitter


        2008-AA- SLG-.496 (Age 22)
        2009-AAA- SLG- 444 (Age 23)

        2011-AA- SLG- .544 (Age 22)
        2012-AAA-SLG- .595 (Age 23)- 67 games

        JP might hit more homers, but TDA hits more extra base hits

  5. They should trade Gose while the rest of the baseball world thinks he has value. I think he’ll be a major bust cause he can’t swing the bat. Doesn’t matter how fast you run when your destination is typically a trip back to the dugout after a feeble swing and miss. Get rid of him while you can, and go for gold. I’d include him on any deal for a top end of the rotation starting pitcher who can help now.

    • Why don’t we just trade all of our prospects right now in case they don’t develop.

      D’Arnaud will always be hurt
      Sanchez will never throw strikes
      Stroman will never get off the supplements

      • Gose is a clear step below d’Arnaud and Sanchez.

        • Gose ranked higher than Sanchez last year on most top Prospect lists.

          Most had TDA, and one of Gose/Marisnick ranked above the Lansing 3 last year.

  6. I think it;s great how little attention Edwin Jackson is getting. That means AA can swoop in in January and sign him on a short term deal! :)

    … or as soon as Greinke signs all of the other SPs will fly off the shelves at ludicrous prices…

    • Leaning towards the latter. None of the better FA pitchers have signed other than Haren. Tons of options still out there.

  7. Interesting post. I’m really starting to get excited about seeing Bonifacio play next year. I had him on quite a few of my fantasy teams last year while he was healthy.

    Again hats off to the way AA has created depth at the middle of the diamond of positions. While he he lost a little bit of it at SS he certainly got more of it in CF.

    • depth is the key, thats what i’m probably the most excited about.
      Last year’s starting 9 was really good… the problem was everyone else after that.
      I really cant figure out why everyone is in such a hurry to trade away our major league depth.

  8. I would much prefer to see an Arencibia, Sierra/Rajai Davis, with some low A ball pitcher type for sweetener in the mold of a Griffin Murphy or Danny Barnes for Dickey

  9. None of Dickey, Niese or Davis are anywhere near true #1 guys, and all probably should be slotted behind both Morrow and JJ.

    Don’t really understand what Elliot is thinking

    • What do you consider a #1 guy? By how hard they throw or the results they put up for a number of years?

      • what are you getting at?

        are you insinuating that Niese, davis, Dickey are going to be better than Morrow/Johnson in 2013?

        Thats a really tough argument to make.

        • Where did you get that? For one thing putting Dickey in the same group as Niese or Davis is just silly. As for Dickey, the results over the last 3 years speak for themselves. While they might just be outside of true #1 results he’s right up there.

          As for him being better than Morrow or Johnson where did I say that?

          • night_manimal- Elliot said that JJ and Morrow were #3′s and possibly #2′s at best (which I don’t agree with), so if Dickey is in you opinion worse than them, he is surely not a #1.

          • @jaysball Ah ok got you now. Yes I don’t agree with them being #3′s at all. To me both of them are currently #2′s with #1 upside. Of course they would have to stay healthy for a full season first to have a chance at that.

      • Both? Dickey has had one #1 type year with inflated K numbers.
        Niese has had 1 injury shortened great year.
        Davis was in the fucking bullpen last year.

    • The way I saw that is and how Stoeten presented it was the Jays are looking for pitchers better than Marcum. Dickey, Neise and Davis are better than Marcum, separately JPA and Gose could be used to get a #1 that is not saying those are number ones. makes so much more sense

    • I dont know, there is something about winning the CY Young Award that may just mean you are a #1.

      Maybe even the #1 in your entire League, gasp!

    • Dickey just won a Cy Young…. best pitcher in the NL. I coulduse him for a substitute #3 until a real one came along.

  10. Seriously though, where is the idea of Dickey as an intolerant hick jerk coming from? The available information points to him being just about the opposite.

    • Pretty sure he was just kidding. He already pitches in New York, he’s not worried about ‘godless heathens’

  11. Angels signed Sean Burnett, so one less bullpen piece on the market. Randy Chode also signs, with the Cards

    • I like what the Angels did with the pen this winter so far. If they can get a couple more starters they will have a really good team imo. Man the AL is going to be fucking tough this year.

  12. Yanks looking at Reynolds, interesting

    Indians talking Dee Gordon, means that big trade still brewing

  13. I don’t get the boner for Dickey. If you’re going to unload for an ace you have to look at the whole league and not the one guy you’re guaranteed to overpay for with all of baseball watching. He had a good year last season but there are younger guys who could work better.

    • And all of those guys that would cost a huge amount more. The appeal of Dickey is his cost relative to his ability. If the Jays are gimped on payroll for 2013 his $5 million is golden.

      • Ya and he’s not going to be anywhere near 5M in the extension that he’ll get from any team that signs him. I’m certainly not trading Gose, JP + for one year of Dickey. Again, he’s going to cost as much as one of the 2nd tier guys anyway, so why not go for a guy like McCarthy and save the prospects? Or wait until later in the season and deal once you have teams that are out of it? There is no point in getting a guy at the absolute pinnacle of his trade value..

        • If he’s still undervalued, which Dickey may very well be, why not make a play for him?

          On the one hand, I agree with Dave Cameron that Dickey has the potential to provide a lot of surplus value, espescially since he seems amenable to an extension with his new team.

          On the other hand, I still wouldn’t pay a premium for him like he was Halladay or even Mat Latos.

  14. Why is no one talking about Kyle Lohse? He would be an excellent FA acquisition and the Jays don’t have to give up a thing…it’s sooo quiet on that front…just the way AA likes it!

  15. I think Dickey is worth trying for this year — good price and as likely to be a top performer as anyone in the crazy starter world of injuries and variability.

    But the price.Could the jays could still meet the Mets needs with more bodies? Say, Rasmus, with DJ Davis, plus Buck (and pay his salary) with Jimenez or Nessy.

    Money is even. A little for now, a little for later. Wouldn’t hurt our immediate future, nor our depth, but would help both for them. Just spreads out their chances of someone turning out.

    • cant trade dj davis i dont believe…gotta wait a year before you can move guys that u have drafted.

  16. Does anybody else worry about the effect pitching half his starts indoors would have on Dickey’s knuckleball?

  17. If it’s true that NY thinks JPA and Gose will get the trade done but they’re holding out for a better deal, it sounds to be that they’re in no hurry to a) sign him or b) do a deal with anyone just yet. This may also be dependant on things like Greinke signing. Hell they could go til the 2013 trade deadline. Of course anything could happen to affect the asking price by then.

    • It could also mean that the Jays are not willing to part with both JPA & Gose.

    • Waiting till the deadline would be a massive mistake. Its painfully obvious the Mets won’t contend until 2015 at the very earliest and Dickeys value will never be higher.

      They have to move him in the next few months. This is all just posturing.

  18. I think Bob’s suc(k)cess with getting scoops is mainly due to his propensity to trade oral favors for rumours. Many within the industry know that when you need relief go to Bob and for the small price of a feeble random rumour he will polish your tool under the bleachers no problem

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