Because so little happened during this week’s Winter Meetings in Nashville, apparently we’re still right in the damn thick of rumour season, and this RA Dickey stuff certainly doesn’t appear to be going away anytime soon.

Today’s slice of nothing new comes from Buster Olney:

Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star also hears that the Royals are interested in Dickey, “but not for Wil Myers.” That tells us something about the asking price I suppose– both that it’s pretty astronomical, and that teams are balking. Which… makes total sense.

As has been pointed out to me numerous times, there’s the old saw about the Jays and rumours and nothing that you ever hear about beforehand will possibly come to fruition, but… y’know… that’s kinda horseshit. And I think it’s especially true when it comes from an event like the Winter Meetings, where there’s just so much media presence, and not a whole lot of places for Anthopoulos to hid.

I could entirely be wrong on this– and it’s even more possible that the Jays won’t end up landing Dickey– but as I outlined yesterday, there are a lot of reasons to believe that Dickey in play, that the Jays have interest, and there are a lot of reasons to understand why that interest might be as great as the constant reporting makes it seem.

Yes, his age, trademark pitch, league and ballpark are all concerns that the Jays would surely have, but the cost, in dollars, the fact that they may be able to get a deal done with surplus, and the quality the pitcher who would be coming back in return make it a very enticing proposition– and perhaps it helps that JP Ricciardi is now in the Mets front office, and undoubtedly has a few players in the Jays’ organization that he likes.

I dunno… it’s pretty much the same story as yesterday, and while I know that there are a lot– far too many, if you ask me– who don’t see the point of going after Dickey (he’s really good), or think that the rotation is good enough (it’s not, especially beyond Happ), or worry about the prospects they might have to give up– a valid concern, but a palatable if you use a little perspective and remember that we know Dickey’s long-term cost isn’t massive, and that there’s simply no way both Travis d’Arnaud and JP Arencibia or Anthony Gose and Colby Rasmus can really coexist on the club’s 25-man roster without one of each pairing taking a massive hit of value by playing out of position.

And, y’know, a damn Cy Young winner.

So… there’s that.

Comments (332)

  1. Apparently, Youk to Yanks, 2/$22

    lol gotta love em…..they let guys go cheaply that would do just fine filling holes (Chavez/Keppinger platoon) then sign an old and broken down gold cart for 2/$22

    I love how they’re making it SO much harder to field a competetive team in 2014 while staying under the cap…..for Keving freaking Youkillis

    • FYI I’m using this as a source…..upon closer inspection, it’s not MLB affiliated…so, probably not true…

    • Youk made perfect sense for them for 1 year.
      for TWO? if they’re insisting on dropping under the tax line next year? that’s going to be interesting…

      i really hope we throw a godfather offer at Cano, one of the few players worth busting all payroll parameters for. even if all we accomplish is driving his price up, great. but if they actually lose him…

  2. Are the Jays WS favorites if they acquire RA?

    • Depends on what they have to give up to get him… but even still probably not…

      I’d say to win the AL East though…

    • Quite possibly.

    • Rangers if they get Greinke and Upton or the Nationals perhaps. Even Tampa if they upgrade their offense.

    • No. Texas is, especially if they trade Young, Sign Greinke, and trade for Upton (like the rumours suggest).

      Just favourites for the AL East Crown.

    • The important part is to get into the playoffs, the rest is a bit of a crapshoot.

      So, good enough to win 95-ish games?

      With good health across the board, I think so.

    • Apparently, the Rangers are now the favorites to sign Greinke. If they don’t sign Greinke, the Rangers will likely push to trade for Dickey and are prepared to offer a package centered around Mike Olt.

      Then there is the whole Justin Upton trade which involves the Indians, possibly the Mariners and of course the Diamondbacks. Dunno what the Rangers are prepared to give up to get Upton, but it might again be a package centered around Mike Olt.

      I think if Jon Daniels is able to accomplish his goals, he will net Greinke and Upton without giving up Andrus or Profar. That would make them the AL favourites.

      Verducci argues in favour of a JPA + Gose deal to get the DIckey in his SI piece:

  3. I think he’d be a great pickup, obviously depending on the price.

    If ever there was a time when it would be okay to over-pay in futures, it seems like now might be it. Especially when it seems like other teams are balking, and that the “overpay” won’t have to strip the system.

    Also, I’d still like to see Villaneuva back as a swingman to add depth. With Charlie V and Happ as depth starters/bullpen swingmen, this Jays team goes from rather good to very solid.

  4. i would give up JPA and Gose in a second to get dickeyed

  5. The “nothing you hear is true” thing doesn’t really hold, but the signal to noise ratio is so low it’s probably best to bet on anything you hear being bullshit.

    • In terms of specifics, I definitely agree.

    • its mostly holds no weight because even if the Jays are silent doesnt mean the other teams they have been approaching about deals will be…so what we hear usually wont be out of anyone from the Jays end but the other teams. pause. So yeah.

    • IMO, most of it comes from being the right fit. The lawrie trade is a good example. Brewers need pitching, jays have pitching, holy shit check it out, the brewers have a quality prospect who is also Canadian. A lot of people saw that shit coming a year in advance.

  6. Few questions I’ve had floating through my mind since these rumors started:

    if if the Jays are willing to part with an Anthony Gose and JP Arencibia along with a B or C Level prospect, what type of return could the Jays hope for on a market outside of Dickey? AA has talked about the Jays will never be a team not actively shop players around the league but I do wonder what type of value a Gose/Arencibia/Prospect package could get them.

    Is Dickey likely the best return they could hope for? I think he’s the only pitcher you’d get who could be a true #1 for that type of package but could the Jays get a younger #2 or #3 for Gose and company?

    There’s no way the Jays make this trade without a window to negotiate with him or knowing close to 100% that he’s willing to sign an extension in toronto, right?

    Do we believe Rogers is willing to pony up $12-15 more million for Dickey? If you have that money to play with, would the Jays be better off being aggressive in the free agency pitching market?

    • Valid point — what does JPA/Gose get from other teams. Would it be enough to get Jamie Shields for 2 years? Would the Rays trade within the division?

    • We havent had any indication what Rogers is prepared to pony up. On the other hand with a good year (playoffs?), Dickey would be a bit nuts if he didnt go FA and try for as much cash as he could get. Remember he’s staring down retirement in a few years. If that happens, and the Jays make a qualifying offer that gets turned down, the Jays would get an extra pick in the next draft: win/win !

  7. I still think it takes JPA and Gose to get this done. He’s worth more to the Mets than just JP Arencibia and middling prospects even if they just let him play out the last year of his deal at $5M and receive draft pick compensation. I don’t see them doing a deal unless there’s good upside coming back their way.

  8. JP take Chad Jenkins, David Cooper… ya jerk! Guy had great draft results.

  9. 2 years and 26 million is not a ton when you consider how much Haren and Kuroda brought in on one year deals.

    The Jays can afford the first year of Dickey’s salary of 5 mil easily with the chump change brought over from Marlins

    Jays would basically be paying off the first year with JPA + and avoiding what Dickey would likely net on the FA market next year – probably starting at 2 yrs, 30 mil – so they would save an additional 4 million there

    Gotta figure out if the difference (i.e. whoever they give up) is worth that additional salary should they try and find him next year on the market. Plus you cant put a dollar value on risk but if you don’t trade for Dickey you dont know if someone else gets him or overpays him next year (should Mets not re-sign him)

  10. Heard the Jays might be interested in this Dickey guy !

  11. Probably just being cynical, but I almost feel like JP’s association with the Jays would make him less likely to want to make a trade with us. Along the same lines as he crapped on AA after the trade “oh, anyone could have done that trade!” there’s part of me that feels he’s petty enough to not want to give the Jays the talent to put them over the top.

  12. Has anyone tried to teach Kevin Ahrens how to throw a kunckleball?

  13. Trade for Dickey than when the Rangers lose out on Greinke because Dodgers throw the moon at him you toss Dickey to the Rangers for Kinsler!

    Haha, not gonna happen, but that would be hillarious

    I have a huge feeling that Dickey’s fate is tied into that whole 4 team trade so until one of the pieces in that proposed deal is traded or signed we won’t see any progress

  14. Ok, so don’t shit all over me because while I would describe myself as a bit of a hardcore fan, my knowlege of baseball outside the American league is reserved to Fantasy Baseball. So I want to know this: 1) Why are people so reluctant to give up on Gose when we have Rasmus, who is a + defender in his mid-twenties with such massive untapped potential? Based on our lineup, Rasmus can hit .220 with 20 hrs and 200ks and still be valuable with his defense, which, I think, is Devon White-esque., but theres a 100% chance he’s already a better hitter than Gose will ever be, and Bonifacio, Davis and Reyes make his skillset irrelevent.
    2) While Dickey sounds nice, couldn’t you get someone like Shields or Price for JPA, Gose and a bit more? Shit, I would trade D’Aunald in that situation, b/c JPA is still pretty good. Dickey seems antithetical to everything AA does or has done. I.E young, controllable etc.
    3) Wouldn’t Brandon Mcarthy be a better pick up than Dickey? I mean, if you really think you can win it all this year, then ok, no, but why put all the eggs into a single basket?
    4) Why not work on a blockbuster trade where by you get Kinipsis and Masterson/Jiminez?

    • The stats don’t back up the idea of + defense for Rasmus.

    • Rasmus has two years left before free agency. Gose has six, is a better defender, and was better with the bat in August and September than Rasmus was. Colby has the power potential, but there’s a lot to like about Gose, and the contract stuff puts his value ahead, probably.

      Price, no way you can get for that. No way at all. Shields… maybe. But as for antithetical to what AA has done, he’s changed now. It was all by design to get young and cheap to start, but it was never going to last.

      McCarthy has big red flags– not just the head but the shoulder. I like him, but he’s more expensive and wasn’t as good as Dickey last year. I like that you don’t have to give up prospects, for sure, and would definitely be tempted, but I get the other side of it too– especially surplus prospects.

      Puke all over the Cleveland idea. Ubaldo is awful, and the other two… meh.

      • Stoeten – what do you think McCarthy is looking for? Cots has him at $4.25M last season. I assume raise – but how far for a guy with as many injuries.

        Just asking because the assumption has been that McCarthy would be more expensive than Dickey – but he is looking for 2 yrs $26M which would put him at a 3yr avg of about $10M.

        • At the very least with dollars per games started, McCarthy will have a higher ratio simply because he can’t stay healthy.

          I’d love the Jays to sign McCarthy, but trading for Dickey makes far, far more sense in a comparison.

          • But all of the talk outside of the Blue Jays bubble is that McCarthy is drawing interest because he isn’t looking long term and will need to prove himself. To me that smells of the type of opportunity that AA usually looks for – for high value.

            The thing is – I would love Dickey to pitch for the Jays. I just don’t know I would pay the price that the Mets want. That is why I think McCarthy would make a lot of sense for the Jays. He’s not going to be a contract that kills you because even if it goes bad – its not long term.

          • I agree that he should be looking for a small deal with incentives to build his value back up. But it’s not wrong of him to see if he can get more guaranteed dollars/term, if that’s what he’s doing.

            But, I’m thinking McCarthy hasn’t signed with anyone yet because he’s unhealthy still, but that’s just me spitballin’.

      • Gose better that Rasmus with the bat in August and September… that’s not saying much… look at the long term stats, minors and majors… he can’t hit. Lets stop assuming because he’s young, he’ll learn to hit (not saying you said that, but many of his supporters tend to use his youth as a reason to believe in him). He’s certainly an athlete, speed demon and solid defender, but he severely lacks talent the greatest tool of them all IMO. Strikes out way too much. He’ll be a career pinch runner and defensive replacement. Trade him while he has value.

      • Fair enough, youre the expert, but I was under the impression that Kinipsis is some kind of superstar in the making.

        • “you’re the expert”? lets not get too carried away, its a fine blog and a fun place to keep up with the jays but do yourself a favor and trust your own opinion, especially with the commenters in here, who often bully anyone with an opinion not shared by the majority – dont believe me ? – take a look at what happens when a guy would like to see the jays add kinsler – “righteous mob, attack!”

      • McCarthy signed with Arizona, but his wife is real hot

    • 1) Rasmus still has too much to prove
      2) If you start with an offer of JP, Gose, and a bit more, for either Shields or Price, you get laughed at by Tampa. Plus resigning them costs much much more.
      3) Dickey is better than McCarthy, plus McCarthy has some major question marks regarding his health. Plus McCarthy is gonna command more money this year, and have a lot of offers.
      4) Jimenez sucks, Masterson is overrated. Cleveland probably doesn’t deal Kipnis.

    • That’s my train of thought. The wildcard being we have no idea if McCarthy or any other free agent pitcher would sign here, but if you’re willing to take on 12-15 million in Dickey, why not go after a Brandon McCarthy and not lose a valuable asset in Gose.

    • If a guy is striking out 200 times, that generally means he’s creating waaaaay too many outs, and isn’t that great of a hitter.

      The home runs are nice, but they aren’t the end all, be all for power numbers. Even if Gose figures the MLB level partially, 20 triples and 40 doubles isn’t out of the realm of probability. Rasmus doesn’t have Gose’s speed to realistically put those types of numbers up.

  15. If anyone remembers JP Riccardi at all they won’t be surprised that there is media all over this. Not even AA can keep his yap shut.

  16. Imagine a rotation with Romero as the #5 guy…

  17. Would be fun to have Dickey just to watch an eighty mile an hour knuckler arc right into Youk’s big ugly melon.

    Seriously, how awesome would it be to brush a batter back with a fucking knuckle ball?

    …I’m drunk

  18. assuming aa is being honest when he says he’s not going to add payroll from here does anyone think its possible a buck/gose/cecil deal would work? That would give us good coverage in case TDA somehow falls on his face. I love the idea of Dickey with an extension as I do not believe the Jays will match the dollars or years JJ will ultimately get and will get the pick back. I just think JPA and Gose is too much.

    • Don’t think he’s ever said that definitely, just said it’s not likely.

      That deal would result in a in a hangup. Then the Mets would call back just to laugh hysterically for a few seconds before hanging up again.

  19. So lets say the asking price is JPA and Gose.. and lets also say that along with the deal, you are able to sign him to a 2/22 extension with an option.

    Im still very much reluctant to trade gose and the jays don’t have much position player depth at all. but you have to give to get..

    I guess what i circle around to, and why I dont end up doing it or on the fence about it atleast is the possibility that JPA+Gose maybe plus another piece, could be used for something else.

    I know divisional trades are usually a no no, but is JPA+Gose not the beggining of a Shields trade? or a Masterson Trade, or a Skaggs/Bauer trade?

    • i shouldnt have written masterson, instant regret.

      • D’Backs unfortunately aren’t looking for a catcher. It would be some kind of awesome if the Jays somehow landed Bauer in a 3-4 team deal with Upton going to the Rangers, Shields and Profar going to the D’Backs, and prospects going everywhere.

      • Why not masterson? his ground ball rate would play fantastically with the Jays infield, Just sayin…

    • I don’t understand the reticence to trade Gose. He isn’t even a full time player yet and Dickey is the current NL Cy Young winner. We need the arms. Gose is a prospect. Dickey has figured it out.

  20. That’s it, I’m sold, let’s make this happen. If they would take Arencibia and Gose, in my mind that’s a steal.

    I’d do D’Arnaud+ as well. I wonder how high the asking price really is…

  21. If I was the Jays and I really wanted Dickey I would try something interesting. If the jays could find a trade partner for Buerhle, I would offer JPA, Rasmus and Norris for Dickey and taking all of Santana’s salary. From there swap Buerhle, now I say Buerhle because that would give the Jays 6 starters Dickie, Johnson, Morrow, Buerhle, Romero and Santana. Note, that could give the jays 3 1 year pitchers they could extend!!! Dickie, Johnson and Santana if he is ever healthy.

    I think by taking Santana and all 25 million of his salary (damn that is alot for 1 year) you make it easier for the Mets to trade Dickie’s 5 million. you free them of 30 guaranteed commitment and you offer a starting cf, c, and pitching prospect . I see Gose overtaking Rasmus anyway in a year or so (otherwise Rasmus shifts to RF or LF, Buck and Eli White… can cover catcher for 2 months till TDA is ready. Then swap Buerhle for 2 B to B+ prospects. If you cannot trade Buerhle for much keep him and trot out a 6 man rotation till either someone gets injured or if Romero stinks again (giving 2 starts) you can send him down to AAA till someone gets injured.

    The Risk in doing this is going with a shortened bench, but the Jays already have some utility guys in Bonifacio and Maicer..

    Biggest risk in doing this is you go old (Dickey), injury prone (Johnson, Morrow, Reyes, Santana)and unproven (Gose).

    • That’s actually a pretty interesting idea. The issue is finding a partner for Buerhle. I’m pretty sure he has negative value if we’re not eating some contract. Having him off the books would give me a lot more confidence in our ability to sign JJ long term too.

    • I see the Jays valuing Gose more than Rasmus and to me Gose offense plays better in CF where as Rasmus is a prototypical LF or RF. Gose in 56 games according to Fangraphs had .6 WAR Rasmus in 151 had 1.4. if That continued for a whole season Gose would give 1.8 War for 2013. baseball reference gives Gose a .4 war in the same period and Rasmus a 1.4 according to bbrefrence Rasmus is more valuable, but I still think Gose’s dWar would be much higher for a full season.

      • These defensive statistics are pure crap. Using your eyes and your brain just watch the guy play. Rasmus is a ++++++++ defensive centrefielder. In fact, I would say that he is so good that if there is a better centrefielder than him, the difference is imperceptable.

        • I have used my eyes jimmy he is not a +++++++++ defensive centerfielder. Watch him overthrow the cut off man but not make it to the catcher fast, or hard enough. See him miss throw to the catcher.

      • Rasmus is far from a prototypical corner outfielder. His arm won’t play in right and his bat isn’t likely to play in LF.

    • That would push this year’s payroll to north of $140 million or an increase of $60 million over last year. Doubt that would fly even for a second.

      For another $10-12 million they could have had someone like Haren or McCarthy and kept the players.

      Still it’s not entirely different from what I’ve been talking about for the last couple of weeks regarding flipping Buehrle. Imo flipping Buehrle isn’t ideal for 2013 but is far more practical going forward.

      With Arizona sitting on 8 fucking starters in McCarthy, Kennedy, Cahill, Miley, Corbin, Skaggs, Bauer, Hudson I bet AA is doing back flips trying to insert himself into that big 4 way trade so he could get his hands on some of that pitching.

    • I think if you are offering to take Santana, you won’t have to give up JPA or Rasmus. $25 mil is a lot of cake. They might even be able to send Lind over in such a deal.

  22. Why are you all still talking about me?

  23. ChiSox now dangling de Aza and Vicideo

    looks like everyone’s jumping in the CF market now

    • Trade Idea:
      Homer bailey for rasmus/gose;
      the jays need depth plus potential and control, reds need a outfielder for the long term they could match up on a similar deal like this

  24. Don’t get me wrong, I would love getting Dickey for Arencibia and Gose. It’s just that I don’t see that being the highest bid for him; and if it was, I see the Mets choosing to re-sign him over trading him for that.

    And I don’t love the idea of trading for Dickey if it’s going to cost more than Arencibia and Gose.

  25. shit, mccarthy to the snakes, young pitchers in ‘zona probably going to be moved

    • Man if McCarthy stays healthy that puts the Haren deal to shame. You have to wonder if all the Dickey stuff is actually true, and say the Jays do eventually trade for him, why not just throw a couple of extra million at McCarthy and keep whoever they were going to trade for Dickey? Of course that’s predicated on the very large premise of McCarthy even wanting to pitch here.

      Still a very nice deal for Arizona. I am sure a lot of teams are wishing they had him for less than $8 million.

      • however hes VERY injury prone and you wouldve have to gotten himo and marcum instead of dickey then

        • Meh McCarthy would make 5 starters with Happ being your 6th. I’d be more than happy with that especially considering I’d still be deep at C and CF for more trades come the all-star break.

          McCarthy’s breakdown on his contract makes the deal look even better. $2.5 million signing bonus (stash it under 2012′s budget) $4 million in 2013 (just what the Jays needed and is likely what they’ll spend on veteran relief help) and $9 million next year (not that expensive at all).

        • I dont believe pitchers are injury prone. I believe that every pitcher risks his career every start and that one is no more likely to get injured than another. Plus, I don’t think taking a ball in the face has anything to do with being injury prone.

          • I dunno, I think some pitchers’ mechanics definitely put them at a much higher risk, making them more injury prone than others. That’s not to say there’s any way to pitch that will 100% prevent injury, or 100% guarantee it, but some guys make you cringe to watch.

            You’re right that taking a ball in the brain doesn’t mean you’re “injury prone” but there’s no way to know how a brain injury may affect future performance. Hockey is full of examples, but baseball has had it’s share as well.

          • + 1

          • Dustin McGowan might be injury prone Jimmy.

  26. If Dickey has another three years of baseball left in him close to the previous three years than he is probably worth more than Gose + JPA. If they wanted one more piece I would give it to them, as long as it would be reasonabve. Sierra, Cooper, Cecil, a less important bull pen arm, etc. Dickey could be the difference between a 90 win team and a 95 win team.

  27. yawn … wake me when the Arizona fall fantasy league is over …

  28. just one more (player, drink, you name it) …. Just one more … an then I’ll quit for good, I promise.

  29. This whole Dickey business is giving me a headache. The Mets wont get the world for him like theyre trying to do but I understand the whole textbook start high and see what happens approach. The Jays COULD get him and extend him with little effort but AA is being smart about it. Me, personally if I was the Mets, Id take Gose for JPA but we will see what happens I guess. I would love to see that knuckle ball in the dome.

    The Wakefield / Dickey comparisons are understandable but not accurate. For starters, Dickey has a fastball in the upper 80s, a two seam fastball in the mid 80s, a change up, and two styles of knuckleballs. Whereas Wakefield had a knuckleball and a batting practice fastball with the once in a blue moon curveball (like once a year). There was also days where Wakefield’s knuckler was notorious for not moving well and on those days it would get hit into orbit, Dickey throws his so hard that it always moves.

    And honestly,, what in the holy fuck are the Royals thinking? They FINALLY after how many years of completely awful ball clubs have a good looking line up with a lot of young talent and they want to trade away this talent? Dumb fucks… seriously, KEEP THESE PLAYERS morons…

    • Dickey said on tv that his fastball and knuckleball both max out just over 80 mph. I don’t think he can reach the mid 80s let alone the upper 80s.

    • No one will read this long winded garble. You’re no Stoeten (sp?) homeslice

      • No, to be Stoeten I would have to be nothing but negative all the time and use nothing but ridiculous advanced metric stats.

        I just remember him pitching a ways back and having his fastball sitting at around 87-88 most of the time. But regardless he has two fastballs and a change up in addition to two differently thrown knuckleballs thus making him in my opinion different from wakefield.

        Bottom line is, Dickey should be a blue jay, I believe in Happ but I also believe the injury bug will give Happ some starts this season so no worries there. Having Dickey sign a 2-3 year extension would be great because by that time Syndergaard will be ready.

        So far teams are balking at the asking price, I think AA should put a package on the table but I am not sure what I am comfortable parting with, it really depends on whether or not an extension is possible or not.

  30. This is admittedly cherry-picking, but just look at Phil Niekro’s WAR from his age 38-40 seasons. It’s a shade over 25 for that three years.

    Age clearly has to be looked at differently for knuckleballers. I honestly think the next three years should be looked at as likely being part of Dickey’s prime. If he would agree to 3/30, I would give up Gose and JPA in a heartbeat.

    • You can’t compare baseball from diff eras

      • Sure you can. That’s the entire point of WAR and other adjusted stats.

        • I think the game was different far beyond numbers. Different bats, balls, stadiums, philosophies.

          • That’s not not true, to double negative it up, but at the same time offensive output is used to adjust the + stats, as is park factors. Also, you’re comparing across generations by comparing against contemporaries, so to the extent equipment matters, it’s the same for everyone in the same sample.

            But most importantly of all, his point was just that there are historical examples of knuckleballers being far above league average into their 40s, which doesn’t much require comparing eras anyway.

      • The only point was that knuckleballers can have their most effective seasons in their late 30s and early 40s.

    • Knuckleballers whole “schtick” is swinging strikes, strikeouts and weakly hit ground balls. Given that, I’d think they would be easy to compare. Baseaballs differ from era to era but the seams in a baseball differ just as much from day to day and that’s where the ball gets it’s movement. As long as it’s not players from the “dead ball era” of course you can compare them.

  31. Please tell me there isn’t anyone out there who thinks our rotation is amazing, that we don’t need Dickey or even another arm. There is potential to be really good but you can’t ignore the fact that the rotation also has the unignorable potential to bust

    • Agreed. A lot can go wrong. I think JJ will pitch well, but who knows for how long. Romero is still a big question mark. Buehrle might not have the easiest move to the AL east. Morrow is also an injury worry. Who knows if Happ could pull his on weight for 30 starts. A guy like Dickey solidifies the rotation. Plus if the Jays do make the playoffs, JJ, Morrow and Dickey wouldn’t be fun for the opposing teams.

      • not to mention an extended Dickey keeps the rotation intact if JJ walks and could be worth well over market value.

    • Dickey gives you innings. Same as Buehrle. Both these guys are like two extra days off a week for the BP. They also have a psychological effect on the rest of the staff, who know that one either one of them throwing that day means a better than average chance at a win and significantly less pressure on themselves..

      • Dickey just puts this team over the top. I don’t think there is any team in baseball that is clearly better than the Jays if they get him.

        • Agreed, if everything or if even 80% of things go right with the current rotation, the Jays will have one hell of a year. However that being said… if Johnson gets hit with the injury bug, if Morrow and Romero pitch on the shitty side of their tendencies and if Happ cant step it up a notch then theyre in for a rough ride. Buerhle is near automatic most years so him, Im not worried about, Dickey would be the same if he came aboard.

          I love Romero but I dont want to see his pouty face and see his little tantrums all season again, if he shits the bed through his first 5-6 starts, POOF, hello Buffalo to get his head and skills in order. The AL east isnt a place to figure shit out.

  32. Really McCarthy for 2 years and 15.5 million dollars?

    That is too good a value to pass up despite the risk.

    he’s had alot of injury issues but come on, the head injury ? its not an arm issue, it was a freak thing and he has no deficits. so basically, exluding the head injury issue from last year, i think this is an excellent deal,

    • And if you just “exclude” my uncles nuts he’d be my aunt.

      How the hell can you just exclude the head injury when there’s no telling how it will affect his future performance? That’s an absurd statement. Sure getting hit in the head was a freak accident, but the after effects of a brain injury are no joke and can’t just be “excluded” as if it never happened.

      I agree that it’s a great value either way, but you the brain injury can’t just be disregarded. Might not affect him at all, but it certainly could.

  33. Richard Justice of was on XM tonight and said the Jays and Mets have talked Dickey for Arencibia plus but Alderson wants to see where Greinke and Sanchez land before he accepts just to see if he’ll get a better offer from the clubs that missed out on their FA pitching target

    • So this is likely going to drag on for a while. If I was a GM I would destroy a team do to my lack of patience.

      • At one point I was thinking if Alderson doesnt like what he’s offered it could go up to the trade deadline next summer. It looks like Grienke’s going to Texas though so things may heat up soon.

        • Boy this is getting Interesting. Now Greinke’s about to sign with LA. Wonder if that means Texas will be all in on Dickey? On the other hand I think the Mets are looking for catchers so Texas may have problems matching up.

          Are we having fun yet????

      • hahaha you and me both.

    • I want to believe!!! But so much else could happen, and who knows how true this is. Another team could overpay, and I doubt AA matches in that case. They could just decide to keep him. Who knows. I just hope AA doesn’t lose other opportunities if he is waiting to see what happens with Dickey.

  34. My new trade idea w/ the Mets

    Wheeler and Harvey for Gose and D’Arnaud.

    What do you guys think?

  35. Some downside to consider with Dickey is weather JPA can handle a knuckleballer. Plus guys will steal a bunch more on Dickey’s slow delivery to the plate

  36. Jays catching IMO is suspect, if Mets took Buck instead of JPA thats ok too, as it saves a ton of dough. AA then needs to get a vetran backup catcher.

    • I would love for the NYM to take Buck and his shit ass defence and his .192 avg. Trouble is he is signed for just the 1 year at 6.1m so not only is he overpriced, but at the eoy the Mets are back looking for a catcher again
      No, my guess is JPR in the background wants JPA because he knows his ability, drafted him and so on.
      To get them to take Buck, we would have to include a good arm like a Sanchez I am afraid, and that might be with Gose thrown in as well

      • Buck hit the ball like a mule and out of the park quite a few times when he was here. He wasn’t that bad of a defender either and Gibby likes his leadership. Add the fact that he was liked here by the team and fans, and didn’t want to leave in the first place. The Jays catching situation needs an experienced guy to take the reigns if JPA is traded. Travis D’Arnaud might be ready but I can’t see AA and Gibby going into the season with him as the #1 without a veteran presence to help him.

        • Im with you on this. Are people so retarded that they dont remember Buck having a pretty awesome year in Toronto? The pitchers apparently loved him, the coaches loved him, the fans loved him etc.

          Every homerun he hit at Rogers center was a BOMB, remember that time he damn near put one in the skydeck? I personally cant wait to have him back on the field.

          • Well he’s going to be reunited with Murph and maybe even Cito at ST. He gave Cito all the credit for getting his swing started early and Murph is nothing if not a Cito clone. I think Buck will be just fine.

  37. Seriously? How many times does a GM have to say there is nothing going on before every guy with an iPad who once walked on a ball diamond stops thinking he knows better? Yeah,I know, maybe he is lying.

    • Well aren’t you pleasant.

    • Not sure if the GM you are talking about is AA, but when JPA saind he was going to remain a Jay, “Anthopoulos said he hadn’t given Arencibia any such assurances”…Dec 4. So trading JPA is a possibility, unless of course thats not what you meant by nothing going on. What did you mean anyway?

      • also would AA ever say “oh yeah there’s a trade in the works right now”

        also as we saw with The Trade, things change fast, and one phone call can lead to a trade within a few hours. We know almost for certain that AA has asked the Mets about Dickey.

      • Didn’t AA say that something was on the table, but that he didn’t think it was going happen? So, there’s that…

    • You are an idiot.

  38. Cant watch the b jays with out a dickey

  39. Been reading Metsblog the last while…some funny / sad stuff over there. Matthew Cerrone has put forth this notion that the Blue Jays are interested in trading Arencibia for (get this) Mets pitching prospects. And sadly, many of the posters over there have run with the idea.

    • Yikes at least Gose + JPA seems to make sense for the Mets. They get young controllable guys at positions they aren’t deep in. Why would the Jays trade their starting catcher for prospects in a year they are looking to compete?

      • And that’s the amazing part of that “Amazin’ Mets” blog. I don’t necessarily expect fans of other teams to know all the in’s & out’s of other teams….but open your eyes just a little here. Does anything about the Jays off season (and the off-seasons of their AL East rivals) say: “We’re looking to trade a starting catcher for prospects”?

    • I mean, don’t get me wrong…who wouldn’t love to have Matt Harvey or Zack Wheeler…but I don’t get the sense they’re talking about either of those guys.

      You can keep all your Jenrry fucking Mejia’s Mets fans.

    • I don’t know, seems all they talk about is spelling mistakes.

  40. I think they could offer JPA + B grade prospect and agree to take Santana’s money off their books and have the deal work out. Put Santana in the pen to begin the season and then see what happens. lol worth a mention

  41. Tom Verducci is pro JPA & Gose for Dickey:

    “What the Mets should do is send Dickey to Toronto for catcher J.P. Arencibia and outfielder Anthony Gose, which would net them two young, major-league-ready everyday players. The Blue Jays aren’t enamored with the basic math of the deal: one year of Dickey for 10 years of control of two young players.

    But here’s why the Jays should do it: Both Arencibia and Gose are reserves right now and are blocked by young players who should be in Toronto for at least two years. Those “10 years of control” are not all years of full-time duty.

    More than that, Toronto made a blockbuster move with Miami to rejuvenate baseball in the city. Manager John Gibbons said the goal is to get the franchise into the postseason for the first time in 20 years. If so, you need to go all in — just as the Nationals are doing by trading a front-of-the-rotation prospect (Alex Meyer) to get a centerfielder (Denard Span) and by paying their fourth starter $13 million despite coming off a down year (Dan Haren).

    The Blue Jays are not all in if they regard years of control for bench players above the chance to get a Cy Young Award winner. Think Toronto would have a better shot at the postseason with Dickey making 32 starts instead of J.A. Happ making 32 starts? Of course. But Toronto is hedging its bets.”

    FWIW, I consider his logic bullshit for a number of reasons.

    First off, this notion of “all in” is going to be a constant moving target.

    Second, the Blue Jays are not trying to be Philly and burn all their prospects for a short window. Sustainability is very important to AA, Beeston and Rogers.

    Third, this all or nothing dichotomy with Dickey representing the only commitment to winning is pure bullshit.

    There are a number of ways to improve the rotation that don’t necessarily involve trading JPA and Gose.

    I feel very confident that JPA & Gose is better than anyone is offering for Dickey and that Alderson would gladly accept that deal right now.

    I also feel fairly confident that AA won’t be doing this, Dickey extension or not.

    Based on what we’ve seen from AA, everything points to preferring to pay 3/30 – 35 for Edwin Jackson as opposed to 3/30 – 35, JPA & Gose for RA Dickey.

    • Nice link up, thanks

      I also agree with you to some extent – AA will never fully go all in. He knows he needs to keep some prospects for future trades in case some “all stars” dont pan out

      And the moving target part is true, never know how quickly the league catches up with you or if areas of weakness emerge

      I can’t say for certain AA would rather do that E Jax over Dickey tho, mainly because AA has always been creative in using players to leverage spending money but Dickey’s situation is so unique

    • Don’t count on a Jackson contract if the Jays wouldn’t outbid 2/$15.5 million for McCarthy.

      Maybe they just don’t value McCarthy that highly but I can’t see valuing Jackson twice as much.

      A sign that the payroll ceiling has been hit?

      • Or that they would have had to pay him significantly more than that to get him to come play here. Perhaps enough more that the risk/value equation didn’t work. Maybe there’s no reasonable dollar figure that would have done it. Trade or no trade, that’s still a reality for the Jays signing FAs.

      • here’s how it works.

        Teams with a lot of pitching depth can take a high risk high reward on a good pitcher, with a bad shoulder. IE the D’backs.

        Teams like the Jays can’t take as much risk because they need innings, they need stability, because they lack depth. .. had hutch, drabek, mcgowan been healthy maybe that changes, but they’re not.

        So it made a lot of sense for the jays to not be in the Mccarthy market.

        • Hope you’re both right.

          I’d love to see Jackson here on a 4 year deal.

          Then try and swing a trade for Bauer, Skaggs or Corbin and the rotation de

          • Rotation depth would be looking good then.

            Morrow, Romero, Johnson, Buehrle, Jackson

            With Happ and Bauer or Corbin in reserve?

            What would we need to give up for one of the DBacks starters?

    • Not sold on Edwin Jackson. Jays can’t afford to play fix-it on this guy for a whole season when they’re trying to get into the post season and make a run fo the championship. I don’t think Edwin Jackson is can be solved by this team.

    • I like this way of thinking.

      Personally, I would love Dickey in the rotation however, I agree that Jackson could be a better investment. However what worries me about Jackson is the amount of teams he;s been on in his short career. Is there a problem with him? Does he have a clubhouse cancer ego? Whats the deal, there has to be a reason that he has moved around so much.

      Yeah sure the Jays COULD go for it all and get Dickey on board but at the price of Gose and JPA for one year? I dunno about that really. Something about that deal bothers me.

      Personally, I would all in all prefer a trade for someone like maybe Masterson over both of the above options or for a free agent signing I would like to see Marcum back because we know he loves toronto, we know he can pitch, we know he’s a likable team mate but if you put him on this team on familiar ground he would pitch his ass off.

  42. “I feel very confident that JPA & Gose is better than anyone is offering for Dickey and that Alderson would gladly accept that deal right now.”

    The only thing Alderson has said the whole time about the Dickey situation is patience. I don’t know why you “feel very confident” about something which we really have very little insight into. Only about two weeks ago Alderson said he was going to wait for the winter meetings at the earliest to make a move with Dickety. For example Alderson could be waiting for Greinke to sign and hope that the losing teams will offer up more for Dickey. Kansas City could get desperate and put together a better deal.

    Also sure there are other rotation options, but Dickey appears to be the cream of the crop, as far as realistic options go. I would roll the dice and take Dickey over Jackson+Gose+JPA. Why? Because Dickey is something Jackson is not. Jackson stunk in the playoffs, Dickey is coming off of a cy young award. Dickey was worth almost the same in WAR in 2012 as Jackson was in 2012, 2011, and 2010 combined. Not to mention Dickey makes the Blue Jays rotation dynamic as hell. A variety of skill sets including probably the major league’s most unique and difficult to adjust to pitcher.

    I know that all of the Dickey discussion has been based heavily in speculation, but I don’t know why you could have such a strong opinion based off of so little.

    • Sorry if I wasn’t clear about the fact that, of course, I have no hard evidence to be so confident; it is simply based on me piecing together different rumours and quotes.

      There is no way of knowing until Dickey is traded. And perhaps a team will pay more in prospects once Greinke is off the market.

      I also feel ultra-confident that the Mets will not receive a Myers or TDA prospect in return for Dickey. I don’t have any evidence, but I just don’t see the precedent for it.

      As for Dickey vs Jackson, JPA & Gose, I don’t agree with the emphasis on Dickey’s 2012. Espescially since we are more concerned with the performance from 2013 – 2015.

      Considering Dickey & his hard knuckleball are an unprecedented case, I can’t see any reason to expect Dickey to provide substantially more value than Jackson over the next 3 years. And certaintly not so much more value that it is easily justifiable to lose JPA & Gose in the process.

      I’ve been pumping a JPA-centred Dickey trade for weeks and I’d still love to see it. But I don’t add in Gose as though he is Brett fucking Wallace.

      I also don’t see any reason to be married to Dickey as though he is the only path to an upgraded rotation.

  43. “Considering Dickey & his hard knuckleball are an unprecedented case, I can’t see any reason to expect Dickey to provide substantially more value than Jackson over the next 3 years.”

    This is where we will just have to disagree. His hard knuckleball is one of the most unique pitches ever thrown. I don’t know if there is anyone else that ever played in the bigs that could ever throw a knuckleball at 80mph. Plus Dickey can locate it, he has a low bb/9 unlike past knuckleballers, and a few pitches to supplement his knuckleballs. Dickey’s 2012, 2011, and 2010 are very strong reasons to believe he could be massively valuable over the next three years. Not to mention the supposed value of throwing off hitters timing, his ability to go deep into games and add up innings.

    What I see in Dickey is a player that can be a difference through the season, but also as an important threat in the playoffs–afterall the Jays are ultimately trying to win the world series. Jackson has been awful in the playoffs his whole career. He is not a stud that strikes fear in the opposing team. Dickey has been for 3 years. Of course he hasn’t pitched in the playoffs in his career, but neither did Roy Halladay before recently.

    Just looking at the numbers, considering the scouting reports, understanding his uniqueness, Dickey is a much more valuable asset than Jackson in my opinion. Teams that have won the world series have pretty much always done so on the backs of great pitching. If it comes to the playoffs and the Jays can throw Dickey out there instead of Jackson then I think he is 100% worth JPA+Gose. There is not a single sign that Dickey is slowing down. He could add a full run to his ERA next year and still be more valuable than Jackson.

  44. Gotta be careful evaluating Dickey! He is coming off a carreer year at 37 years of age. The guy looks like Jekyell and Hyde in his AL vs. NL stats. Looks worse than average in his AL years. Now he’s rippin’ it up against the weaker NL bats (you know cause pitchers hit in this league right). Give them JPA but not Gose.

    • If the deal is going to be JPA+ then besides Gose they might be interested in Cooper, Sierra, Bonifacio, a bull pen arm, or they might found value in Hutchison, Drabek, Lind, Cecil, or Davis.

      I could see JPA+Sierra+Cooper or JPA+Bonifacio. Whatever it takes to not give up Gose is probably worth it, although it would suck to lose Bonifacio.

      • For what it matters, Dickey has 7 years of service in the AL and his weighted ERA is over 5. Give him credit for the past 2 seasons, but it could be the flash in the pan is gone. He is a lot of money, and if you start throughing in additional players from our side you will probably regret the decision

  45. DBacks just signed McCarthy.

    Better chance of pulling Skaggs or Bauer away from them?

  46. The Great Professor Parks disagrees with his hero Verducci:

    @ProfessorParks If you were the Mets, do you really think that you’ll get more for Dickey than Gose + Arencibia after Grienke signs?

    @FlightsimGeek Hell no. Thats almost too good of a package as it stands

    • Thanks for posting that. Professor Parks is bang on I think.

      JPA + Gose for one year of Dickey might be too rich. The Mets are courting other teams, namely the Rangers, so until Greinke signs, its best to wait.

      AA is not rushing things with Dickey as he understands how the market is shaping up. The asking price might go down if Greinke signs with the Rangers. If that happens, I think AA needs to upgrade the rotation somehow as the Rangers will be a beast if they have Greinke and Upton. Fuck Josh Hamilton. He wil likely end up trying to hit mooshots in Safeco or will be hitting cheap HR’s in Yankee Stadium.

      • the thing is that the Mets aren’t going to just give Dickey away to the highest bidder. If they don’t get a package they like they could easily keep him or even sign an extension. I can’t believe they’re so cheap that they won’t give their cy young winger market value for two years.

        • “I can’t believe they’re so cheap that they won’t give their cy young winger market value for two years.”

          That should tell you something.

          Alderson has made it clear he prefers the situation to be resolved ASAP.

          Wilpon keeps mentioning allowing Dickey to play out the year, but Alderson has indicated that is his third choice.

          There is a pretty good chance the Mets will just give him away to the highest bidder as they don’t seem particularly enthralled to give him an extension, even one that seemingly will come with a hometown discount.

  47. The Cano situation with the Yankees just got mind-boggling hilarious.

    “He’s not giving them a hometown discount, and they seem to be more interested in keeping their payroll down than winning,” said one source while another added: “He knows he’s the best player on the Yankees … There’s no reason for him not to be paid that way.”

  48. Bob Elliott had an interesting tweet about Ashby going to Houston. If so, would Wilner take over play by play with Jerry Horwarth??

    “Jays broadcaster Alan Ashby, Houston native, in the mix for one of Astros vacancies in the booth?”

  49. I’m making a deal with God….he’s giving me 10 dollars for every time the names Dickey, Gose, Arencibia or Rasmus were mentioned here in the past 10 days.
    So far, I’m up to a villa in Spain and Bill Gates is shining my shoes.

  50. Here….. Dickey, Gose, Arencibia, Rasmus. You owe me.

  51. looks like Young to the Phils is almost done deal

    takes Youk out of the picture for them

    • I guess one thing that does is shut the up the people who think Doc can be traded for. So I am in favour of this.

      • What the hell does Michael Young have to do with Roy Halladay?

        If a top 10 prospect was offered for Halladay, he’d be asked to waive his NTC by Amaro.

        If you are trying to point out that the Phillies are trying to contend in 2013…well, no shit.

        It doesn’t mean paying Halladay $20 million in 2013 after an injury-prone season is the only way to do it.

        • No, I think it does, This is Ruben Amaro acquiring a veteran player for young players. I don’t think he’s the kind of GM who makes another trade right away doing the opposite,

          • Someone on Keith Law’s twitter feed: “They traded for him before Christmas because he brings veteran presents” ha


    Interesting story from Dirk about the 2009 51s. At first, I thought Brice Jared was Snider, but looking more into the biographical details, Cecil seems to fit better. No one seems to match perfectly, so Dirk’s memory is probably a little hazy on some points. Not sure who Shy Country is. Brad Mills?

    • I’m calling Cecil and JPA or Scrabble, as much as I want to pretend I don’t care (but, of course, I do).

    • “Like all my books, the bad guys are composites. Same goes for this (next) one.”
      ~~~~~Twitter Feed~~~~~

    • Wow, that was interesting. Makes me want to read Dirk’s books.

      Brice Jared doesn’t SEEM like Snider of Cecil, who both seem to come across as pretty quiet guys. I could see either of them as ‘Shy Country’.

      Guesses for what players make up the ‘composite’ of Brice Jared? Jeremy Accardo? Not a hotshot prospect, but was up and down around that time and kind of seemed like a douche. Bobby Ray? Scott Richmond?

  53. Interesting stuff here. Phil Niekro, Tom Candiotti, now the potential for R.A, Dickey?

    Wonder if AA is going to add to the legacy of the Blue Jays having a knuckleballer on the roster. Niekro and Candiotti didn’t work that well but the third time might be the charm. Niekro, Hough and Wakefield’s better years came near 40 and after. Dickey could be hitting his prime in that respect, and his fastballs are not just the get me over bullpen types either. Might be a nice trick in the rotation to throw at opposing teams but I like the prospects of the rotation as it is. Morrow, Johnson, Romero, Buerhle, Happ. I like both Gose and Sierra too and I don’t want to see them go either. I’m guessing if AA pulls the trigger, one or the other would likely be put in a package with JPA for Dickey.

    I think there was a lot of pressure on Romero to pick up the slack with all the arms going down. He always looked to be fighting to get in rhythm and his delivery looked off from start to start. He should concentrate on his delivery and release point and put a lock on it. Pitch command starts right there and every time Romero took the mound, something was different about him. I think he’ll be fine this season coming.

    • Also there was the suggestion that there were too many people trying to fix him, Farrell having been a pitching coach and all…

    • If the jays get dickey and Romero bounces back: holy fuckballs

  54. mets want a catcher and an outfielder. my guess is we would do buck+gose OR JPA+Sierra but NOT JPA and Gose. I believe JPA+Sierra and maybe throwing in Cecil would be better than other offers for Dickey but maybe not enough for the Mets to trade them.

    • If the Jays landed Dickey with an extension for a JPA + Sierra and a C+/B- prospect, I would be nearly as excited as I was after the Marlins trade.

  55. Sounding like the Dodgers may get Greinke afterall. Probably not good for the Jays if the Rangers then turn their attention to Dickey. Then again, I think after all is said & done, the Mets find a way to retain Dickey.

  56. One way to look at what the Jays need to do is to ask yourself what teams are obviously better than Toronto.

    Answer? Texas, Washington, Cincinnati.

    The only trouble with that is that the playoffs are usually a crapshoot, because anyone can get hot and make the World Series.

    In which case AA shouldn’t concern himself too much about sacrificing even more of the future in an attempt to make this year’s team an “unstoppable juggernaut,” provided we’re capable of making the playoffs as is. The number of “unstoppable juggernauts” that go on to win the world series year after year is a low one–really not since the late 90s Yankees.

    If, as presently constructed, we’re a strong bet to make the playoffs, then we should be done. If there are any other obvious weaknesses we need to fix at the trade deadline, we can do it then.

    • Dickey for JPA+ could be a move that sells young players while their stock is high while adding a very good pitcher for 3ish years assuming they extend him. This is potentially a good move for the next few years of their playoff window, not necessarily a knee jerk attempt at building a one and done juggernaut.

    • you seriously think thosee are the only teams better than the jays

      we finished 22 games behind the yanks last year, and sabathia didn’t have a full great season.

      you homers need to relax.

  57. Done deal,Greinke signs with LAD for 6/145$.
    Likely now that Texas goes after hamilton ( no surprise really) and Dickey.
    They also claim to be trying to engineer a trade with AZ for upton which might fizzle now that they go for Hamy, and they claim to m/b want shields from tampa. Maybe AA should tag along with Jon daniels of Teaxs for a few days and pick up his scrap,
    Note, LAD apparently now going after Sanchez too-payroll will be 220m especially if they also sign the Korean dude. These guys are fuckin nutz

  58. LA is fucking nuts. The thing is, I don’t even think they’re that good considering all of the money they have spent. Don’t get me wrong, they are a very good team, but they might end up having the biggest payroll in history and I don’t think they got good bang for their buck.

    Also hopefully this puts the Dickey situation to rest soon. The question is, out of Toronto, Kansas City, Texas, and maybe the Angels, Red Sox, and a few other mystery teams, who can put together the most attractive package together for the Dickster and be willing to pay the price? I hope we find out within a week, or maybe even within a day or two.

  59. Anybody who pays 4 years control of JPA and 6 years control of Gose for 1 year of Dickey is out of their mind.

    • What if it is on the condition that Dickey signs an extension? Each of his last three seasons have been better than Greinke’s last three. If they sign him to the extension the Mets wanted they could have him for a total of $31 Million over three years. That is 40% of the cost with half the term. He could be insanely valuable in the new world of bloated contracts.

    • This must be Fake Oakville post. The real Oakville has never spared a thought to years of control.

      • +1.

        It was a fake oakville post.but I agree with Fakeoakville that it doesn’t make sense to trade both JPA & Gose for 1 year of Dickey.

        It’s a different issue with a 3 year extension.

        However, do the Mets want a catcher & pitching prospect more than Catcher & CF?

  60. I imagine LA must be looking at flipping Capuano or Harang now. Maybe they even package them in with Dee Gordon.

    I wonder if LA can jump in that 4 team deal somehow – send Gordon and Capuano or Harang to the Indians, Indians send Asdrubal to AZ, AZ ships Upton to Texas, Texas ships ? to LA? Some combination of those pieces, obviously not that very specific deal, but something involving those players.

    Indians might be looing at replacing their outgoing SS and also got some pitching help. AZ clearly wants Asdrubal, Tex wants Upton, who the hell knows what LA wants though – salary relief? lol

    • Wouldn’t surprise me if AA isn’t going crazy talking to each one of those teams and trying to insert himself in the trade.

      Greinke was a huge overpay but we knew that was coming. Now I can’t wait to see the fallout from that contract on the rest of the free agent market. Imo even after you factor in the risks for injury cases like Haren and McCarthy they are still far better deals than Greinke. That said, with Dodgers payroll it doesn’t matter too much to them. Personally I was hoping the Rangers got him because that would have likely meant payroll issues down the road for them like you’re seeing with the Angels to a certain extent. Of course that works against you in the short-term too because they would have had Zack Greinke.

      It’s certainly going to have an interesting effect on Josh Johnson’s possible extension especially if he pitches like he’s capable of doing. In light of the Greinke numbers, a possible Dickey extension at 2 for $30 million is looking like a potential steal, or at the worst a very healthy discount. Obviously that is if he performs like the last 3 years.

      • Dickey could slow down considerably and still be worth $10 Million a year.

      • manimal-you beat me too it. I was just going to comment about JJ and I think the time to sign him to an extension is b4 spring training when you might still be able to get him to go for say 4/64 or something.
        Christ if former teammate and less worthy pitcher Sanchez scores 15m/per ,the” cost 18m per year or 4/72. Do it now and take your chances on how he does as you already invested alot now anyway.
        In 2 years Hernandez, Verlander and Kershaw could hit free agency ( after 2014).
        Who becomes the first idiotic 35m/season pitcher or likely 200m man for a pitcher!. If the yanks and these crazy LAD people start bidding it could be the end of baseball as we know it-these guys are creating hyperinflation

        • Yeah it’s going to be interesting to see what the Jays and Johnson’s agent do over the next couple of months. As his agent said, any deal done now needs to share risk and the Jays would be taking some for sure considering his health record. Obviously, Johnson’s side would be settling for less than he could possibly get next year.

          Trading for someone like Dickey would sure go a long way to making Toronto seem more viable for the next couple of years imo. It might not be the most cost effective way of doing things but I think it would make more of an impact on someone thinking of signing here for the next few years.

          • Four years for 60 mil?

          • 4 for $60m for Johnson? Hmmm might depend on what Anibal gets and go from there. I bet his agent will think that a risk discount on their part equals less than Greinke but still more than someone like Anibal and I wouldn’t say that he’d be wrong. I was thinking more along the lines of 3 or 4 years at $18m per season.

            Even though he’d be giving up his right to free agency, you just have to look at what other guys like Cain and Hamels got when they did the same thing. I know he hasn’t been as healthy as those guys but the results are easily as good or better.
            It’s definitely an interesting decision for AA and for Johnson. The silly thing is, without this trade none of us would have been in our right minds thinking an extension like that would even be possible under Rogers.

        • Well they could try to extend him before ST, but I doubt he’d bite. If I’m JJ I’d want to get a feel for playing in the city before I’d sign anything. If it was me, I’d play in Wawa at 4/60. Alright maybe Sudbury, but Barrie for sure.

  61. Saw this over at FanGraphs in the Mike Newman Prospects Chat on 12/7. Not sure if this was from our own DJF Bret or not or if the response was posted by anyone else earlier in the thread. If so my apologies.

    Comment From Bret
    JP Arencibia and Anthony Gose for RA Dickey – who says no?

    Mike Newman:
    The Jays would, but Mets fans will want my head for saying it. There’s something to be said about control and JP/Gose combine for a decade of cost controlled seasons. A Dickey extension will come relatively cheap considering what Anibal Sanchez is likely to earn on the open market, so that helps offset any concerns about his age and knuckler — if any. Personally, I’ve always been a huge fan of Anthony Gose and think his athleticism will allow him a great deal of MLB success even if he never adds all of the polish. He’s a 2-win player for me next season with everyday time and that’s his floor IMO.

    Then there was this

    Comment From Douglas
    Who’s the better prospect – Leonys Martin or Anthony Gose?

    Mike Newman:
    Gose. It’s not close

    • That’s why however less popular jpa/or gose will be more possibly moved for a younger pitcher instead of dickey

      • I would love to know what it would take to get someone like Jeff Samardzija from the Cubs. He reminds me a lot of Brandon Morrow a year or two ago. 3 more years of control left. I don’t know if I would trade a Sanchez or Syndergaard or even a Gose straight up for him even though that’s the kind of prospect he’d possibly command. I guess that’s where the scouting departments really play such a big part in the process.

        • Holy shit.

          Syndergaard straight up for Samardzjia is a ridiculous steal. Cubs would never do it.

          Syndergaard may never be better than Samardzjia is now. If his breaking stuff doesn’t develop he’s a future reliever.

          Bird in the hand in this case.

  62. Possible AA pitching game plan:

    Do what it takes to get Dickey, unless they insist on d’Arnaud. JPA, Gose, Bonifacio, Cooper, Sierra, Cecil, and a few other possible players/prospects are all availible. Re-sign him to an extension, something I don’t think will be hard even if they don’t make it a condition in the trade.

    If the Dickey move fails Jackson or Marcum seem like the most realistic higher end free agents. I’m not sure if there is anything else on the market AA would be interested in, meaning the next possible move would probably have to be some kind of trade.

    The final move is trying like hell to sign JJ before he gets a Greinke contract.

    • yep-that’s what I’m hinting at.
      If his former teamamate Sanchez gets, say 5/15, the before dec 31 I would do my damndest to get him even as high asa 4/75 (18m.5/yr) as shit we are going to be paying Buerle that for fuksakes.
      An LA Blog says the dodgers want to go after sanchez and that Korean mut.too-for fuk!

  63. Put the panic button down.

  64. Greinke didn’t get a no trade clause so I guess we know who the Jays are trading for next offseason :)

  65. These escalating costs are steering MLB in a dangerous direction.

  66. Ken Rosenthal weighs in on JPA + Gose for Dickey:

    What Ken implies, and what I think many of us agree on, is that JPA isn’t enough but JPA + Gose is too much.

    So what’s the happy medium?

    I’m not sure that Alderson would be amenable, but it would probably be something like JPA & maybe 3 or 4 more ok prospects in the Sierra/Cooper mold.

    Alderson wants major league ready contributors and we know AA doesn’t mind giving up quantity.

    Fingers crossed!

    • If the Rangers are willing to give up Olt we are screwed. The Mets probably want the best overall player not a bunch of mid level young players. But if AA is willing to do what it takes, something like JPA + Sierra + Cooper might get it done, and if it doesn’t, maybe AA could add another bullpen arm like Lincoln or Loup. A package like that would require a conditional extension I would think though. Unless Texas is willing to part with Olt the Jays have a good chance at getting Dickey, it all depends on how much AA values him. He has what it takes to get it done.

      • Will Olt replace Wright or ike Davis? Don’t think so, so where is the match?

        • Surely there are a couple of teams in need of a 3rd baseman. They can always flip Olt to a team wanting a young third baseman in exchange for a young catcher or outfielder. Maybe Scott Rolen doesn’t come back & the Reds trade their young catcher Mesoraco for Olt? Mesoraco was very highly regarded not long ago.

      • @Jimmy

        The Jays aren’t “screwed” if the Mets are willing to part with Olt.

        It’s not Dickey or bust.

        And I’d be pretty surprised if Olt were used to acquire Dickey. The Rangers seem more inclined to use him in a 3 way to get Justin Upton.

        Teams would rather use premier prospects to get young, controllable players like a Latos.

    • Jpa + rajai Davis + a reliever like a Lincoln/ Delabar that is the trade . This provides an outfielder ( lead off hitter) at a reasonable price , a catcher for 4 years and a reliever which the mets need

    • No one wants Cooper and Sierra. They have no value

  67. Ok.. a little Yankees rant…

    Does anyone else in here find Yankee fans as delusional as it gets in sports these days?

    For example, SO many Yankee fans feel that they will win the division again this season even though they have holes at RF, DH, C and 3B. In addition to those holes, theyre over 170 million with only 19 million left to spend tops which surely wont get them much for all those positions. On top of that even, there’s not much left on the market that they can afford that will fill those holes to a competitive level. I see them signing Youkilis or Reynold perhaps which would both be classic yankee moves.

    Then come season end, they have two franchise players and a useful pitcher hitting free agency and then four more that could possibly retire or at least will be getting very close to retiring. They wont have enough money to extend.

    I dont feel bad for them at all because they decided to throw around blank checks and now theyre being handcuffed by that spending but seriously, how to Yankee fans possibly believe that this years Yankee team will out perform the other teams in the division.

    • they are Yankee fans they hardly know what a season of baseball without playoffs is like.

    • Yeah, a definite sense of entitlement from a lot of them. It’s true, if all their injured/aging players return and play up to previous years’ levels, and if they make a couple of smart acquisitions, then they’ll still be the goddamned Yankees.
      But you look at them and there’s not a single player (except maybe a full year of Gardner) that you can reasonably expect to be better than last year. They’re an old team with a lot of questions marks. Filling those question marks is a huge IF.

      • The Yanks have to stay under the competition cap this year. Otherwise their tax is 50% of the amount they’re over. If they get that overage to zero there’s no tax and they get to start all over again. I dont see them making many moves at all.

  68. just for kicks look at the amount of WAR the yanks have lost

    soriano 2.6
    martin 1.5
    swisher 3.5
    arod 2.0
    chavez 1.5
    jones 0.2

    that’s 11.3 of war gone! good luck with that

    • plus many of their old guys, even CC and Teixeira, are probably due to decline sooner than later. If CC doesn’t put together a huge season like he always does, but instead just a pretty good one, even in that case they lose quite a bit of what made them good.

    • How much WAR have the Jays added?

    • you realize ofcourse that people will be taking those AB’s and positions. right?

      so they didn’t lose 11.3 wins.

      with mariano coming back. soriano is a wash.

      Martin, arod were shit

      only thing they may miss is swisher’s 3.5 WAR but they get gardiner back for the full year so it might be a wash.

      how can ‘baseball’ fans,seriously be this stupid?

      • Because not all “baseball” fans understand sabermetrics AND their values.That doesn’t make them stupid.Even your heroes Stoeten and Parkes get it wrong from time to time.Corcoran from SI butchered his use of the WAR stat in one of his columns at SI and got reamed in the comments section.
        People forget that these stats are to be used for comparison and are tools.
        Use sabermetrics with a grain of salt, as a tool to take some of the emotion out of the equation of evaluation.

        • “how can ‘baseball’ fans,seriously be this stupid?”

          he just pointed out they lost some value, not that “oh look they lost 11 war that means they will win 11 less games next year!!!111!!!!”

  69. Dear AA,

    Remember when Texas won the Darvish sweepstakes? Please do not let that happen twice.



    • We arent staring at the same bare cupboard as we were last year. Not the same deal at all.

      • all I’m saying is if the Rangers landed Dickey it would be twice we lost out to the Rangers for a good pitcher when we were rumoured to be the front runners

        • Rumored to be front runners? I don’t think that’s true.

          I’d be completely shocked if the Jays traded for Dickey.

  70. Why are we only pursuing dickey. With Gose and JPA not needed as starters (Buck/Darnaud) and Rasmus easily replacable with Bonifacio we should like at the pitcher who is younger, more consistent and under control for longer. We could try for Hellickson (if the Rays will trade inner division).
    Or we could package any combination of the 3 guys (or even the pitchers down in single A) for pitchers like wade miley, mat latos, jarrod parker, matt harrison, or yovanni gallaro.
    And id like the jays to remember that edwin jackson and marcum are getting no attention on the fa market, so they could come cheap and short term (2 yrs/22 mil)

  71. I still think JPA + Gose is too much for Dickey.

    Gose’s ceiling is pretty fucking high, despite his undevelopped hit tool. Look at what Michael Bourn is looking for in free agency. Bourn is basically a speed guy, with little or no power, with a decent hit tool, who can steal bases with the best of them and can play solid defence. If Gose develops his hit tool and plate discipline tools to reach a .330ish OBP, he might be dynamite. Plus, Gose has some decent power. I am all for seeing him blossom in AAA to push Colby.

    I know that flags fly forever, but with Dickey, if the Mets insist on Gose, I would rather pass and try my luck with a FA pitcher. EJAx, Marcum, Lohse, Dempster are still available. Sanchez will likely land in LA somewhere. Warts and all, the remaining FA class would slot in nicely in the 4th or 5th spot.

    • Agreed Ballsdeep.

    • I don’t know why the perception is out there that the deal could only be JPA and Gose for Dickey. It’s as if Gose is the only attractive piece the Jays have on their roster, and completely ignores the trade that just happened where AA expanded the deal when he didn’t like the price for JJ. Rosenthal noted the Jays answer for that trade would be no – but that doesn’t mean they could t put together a package that would still be good for the Mets – or that they couldn’t add to the Mets side to mitigate the loss of Gose. Frankly I bet AA is calling a billion other teams right now digging for the value trade that no one is talking about.

    • +1

      The more I think about it, the more I think the Jays should roll into the 2013 season with the lineup they currently have, then reassess at the trade deadline and next off-season. They really only need some depth at AAA.

      The off-season is still young, but I still like the Jays’ chances with the Yanks still standing pat, Orioles standing pat, Red Sox overpaying for modest pieces, and the Rays still with no offense (though I suspect they’ll make a big trade).

  72. Probably gonna get crucified for this one….

    But why wouldn’t the Jays trade D’Arnaud?

    I know he’s a stud but the Jays did pretty well offensively the last few years with JPA. Despite his deficiencies, he’s not exactly a black hole in the lineup… Especially for a catcher.

    Good depth in the system for C. Maybe they ride it out with JPA. It seriously would not be the end of the world.

    Not saying necessarily for Dickey, but for young pitching why wouldn’t he be on the table?

    • TDA and Davis for Zach Wheeler, Daniel Murphy and Cesar Puello?

      There’s your pitching depth and a long term project in the OF. Davis speed is redundant with Bonifacio and Gose. Murphy’s OBP isn’t.

      Just a thought so we can atleast talk about something other than JPA+ for Dickey

      • I don’t see the Mets giving up any of their young pitching. It’s why I see them far more likely to deal Dickey than Niese who is under control at a very decent rate for the next few years. If the Mets are smart they have to see just how strong the Braves, Nats and Phillies are right now. There’s no way they can realistically compete in that division this year and likely next year too. Why not bite the bullet and get your core talent lined up for 2014 or 2015? Dickey alone won’t change their fortunes substantially this year or next.

        As for those wondering about Olt from Texas for Dickey. The Mets see themselves set at 3rd and 1st for the short-term. They would have to turn around and try and and trade Olt or possibly Davis for another piece. Selling on Davis now after his health plagued 2012 season would be selling from the bottom. I’m ruling it out obviously, but it would just be a lot more work for them.

        • Maybe true, but they’ve got a few nice young arms and nothing at catcher in the organization.

          And I mean nothing.

          Nothing at the MLB level. Nothing in their prospect pipe.


    • It would have to be for the perfect piece, and I have no idea what that would be. The Jays’ system has already taken a good hit and fallen out of the top 10, and it would probably be a good idea to hold onto him in case one of the MLB catchers goes down with an injury.

    • I do think he is on the table, but it would take a pitcher the calibre of a Pineda pre arm injury. In other words, a flame thrower who gets it up there at 97-99, preferably left handed so….is there such an animal?

    • i’ve advocated for this, but it wouldn’t be for Dickey. it would be because you’re making a move on high-end young pitching – part of a Price package or such.

      if we offered D’Arnaud straight up for Dickey and the Mets didn’t say yes in two seconds, they’re the dumbest org in baseball.

  73. Zack Greinke from 2010 to 2012:
    604 IP, 3.83 ERA, 106 ERA+, 3.78 K/BB.

    R.A. Dickey, 2010 to 2012:
    616.3 IP, 2.95 ERA, 129 ERA+, 3.12 K/BB.

    Numbers like that are pretty compelling imo. Considering it would highly unlikely for the Jays to attract a free agent with those kind of numbers on their own without massively overpaying (yes I know the perception has changed somewhat since the trade), it really seems like the kind of deal AA would make everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

    The more I think of it, the more I wonder about the payroll being tight for next year as well. I know the numbers are actually pretty good, in relation to 2013 that is, but I can’t help but think that the length of AA’s leash for next year is dependent on how well the team does revenue wise this year and by that I mean largely the attendance numbers.

    What I find really interesting is that the trade completely overshadowed what the payroll was going to look like. From AA’s comments about blowing past his old payroll numbers, you have to think the Jays were going to actually come in a lot closer to Davidi’s $95 million number than anything else. How much of a travesty would that have been in light of the dollars being thrown around this winter? I hope that’s not the case. The chance to get a top notch starter at these prices doesn’t come along that often. One thing we’ve seen is that if you’ve got a good pitching staff, then the rest of the payroll doesn’t matter nearly as much. Tampa and Oakland certainly demonstrated that.

  74. I wouldn’t trade either D’Arnaud or Gose for Dickey and I doubt AA will either. He worked too hard to aquire them and hold onto them the last few years to give them up now just when they’re about to ripen into the bigs. Keep that strength up the middle and add to it. He’s more likely to give up JPA plus secondary prospects, relievers or one of our bench guys if he does the Dickey deal at all. I wish he’d go after Kipnis or some other good young second baseman with more upside than Bonifiacio and Izturis. The Jays already have a pretty deep rotation and they can add to it easilly enough if they need to, when they need to, probably in June or July at the trade deadline. They need to save some resources, both money and players, for when injuries do occur, and they no doubt will. You can never have too much pitching, but right now the Jays have enough to start the year. If they resign Villaneuva, as they should, they’re fine even if Romero continues to suck.
    If AA is going after anyone, I hope its a top young second baseman, or Upton. I know we have Melky but Upton is better and he’s the best player on the market this winter, not Hamilton or Greinke. It also looks like the Jays can afford him now too. AA’s philosophy in the past has been to get the best athlete and then worry about how to fit him into the lineup (eg Rasmus, Gose, Marisnick,etc all at center field). I hope that continues and that AA’s main focus is on Upton, not Dickey. There’s not much of a fit with the Snakes, who need a SS, but I’m hoping AA finds a way to squirm into that 4 team trade they’re supposedly working on.
    Having said all that, if JPA plus Sierra or Bonifacio or Davis nets Dickey, I’d be all for it, but let’s keep the farm until we see how the season shakes out a bit. I want the Jays to compete for years, like the Rays are set up to do, and like the Jays will be if they stay smart and keep those blue chip prospects. Let somebody else overpay for Dickey if it takes an overpay like Gose plus Arencibia to get him. I’d rather see Arencibia plus going for Kipnis or Altuve or someone like that. With all that in mind, I predict that AA’s next major deal will involve Kipnis or Upton coming to the Jays.

  75. Not going to happen, imposssible. They have enough to play at 2B and Cleveland will not unload a guy they can control for 4 years while they build their team back up. We would be overpaying in prospects now, just to get another one , really.
    As for Upton, not only would we pay a fortune for a position we now have relatively stocked, but Toronto is 1 of 4 teams on his no trade list. ain’t happening

    • Agreed on everything. If the Jays have a glaring hole, it’s the bullpen*. It’s heavily stocked with hard throwing, unproven talent.

      An argument could be made for DH/1B- whichever one Encarnacion isn’t playing.

  76. Fuck, are we ever going to get a resolution on dickey or what? From the mets perspective, it makes a lot more sense to trade him than to keep him because quite frankly they suck and will be bad the next 2-3 years. Dickey is 38 yrs old. However, if they are going to sign him to an extension, they should just do it already and end all this speculation. Its getting kind of annoying.

    • that was also the reason to cash in on david wright, maybe send him with santana, get some prospects, clear up some space and accelerate the rebuild.

      but they signed him to an extension.

      they also didn’t trade reyes 2 years ago for some odd reason.

      mets defy logic

  77. At one point I didn’t really care if Villanueva signed elsewhere but now I’m inclined to think the Jays should be making him a serious offer. With the new blood on the team and various health question marks that might arise, it would be important to keep him as proven in house talent.

    • +1.

      Carlos V or Marcum would be welcome additions to the roster. Carlos v would be cheaper & he can be a swing man whereas Marcum would be a full time starter.

  78. The Dodgers signing Grienke probably means the Rangers are much more motivated to get Dickey, IMO.

    They can definitely beat our package if they want too. It’ll take Olt+ though.

    • yup although I like how Rosenthal suggested they might go for Shields instead.

    • The Mets want catching though and the Rangers are thin there. Moreover Olt is a 3rd baseman and the Mets just extended Wright til 2020. Having said all of that, watch them trade Wright and do the trade Olt for Dickey, straight up

  79. Yikes:

    The Rangers have expressed a willingness to include Mike Olt in a deal for Dickey, sources tell Andy Martino of the New York Daily News. But, Martino tweets it will take more than Olt for the Mets to move Dickey.

    I can’t see it happening for less than JPA + Gose. I still think those two are worth it.

    • Dickey’s value does not go up because someone else overpays. Take a pass and go after another guy.

      • it’s not about Dickey’s objective value, whatever that is. it is about his value to the blue jays, whatever that is. what is AA’s maximum price? we may never know

        • I misread your intent, thought you were suggesting that the Texas’ offer was better than the Jays, and thus AA should up the ante. Guess not. Olt doesn’t look as good as Gose, or better said I’d never trade Gose for Olt straight up

          • fair enough and I honestly don’t know as much about Olt as I do Gose which might change my perspective, a grass is greener type situation

    • Agree however change Rasmus for gose then yes

  80. Not saying there should be a hard salarie cap, Dodges singing Zack G and Ryu this is there starting rotation.

    With Bills and Lilly coming back sometime in 2013 ridiculous. Over 120 million in Sp.

    • I used to think that crazy spending was bad for the game, but we’re far from a time where only teams that spend win.

      Even if the Dodgers have practically unlimited funds, they still can only field 25 guys. And only have one starter at each position and five starting SPs.

      Getting stuck with a financially unmovable guy for 6 or 7 years if he flops really mitigates things (see Yankees).

      • Unless you don’t give a shit about payroll.

        But fuck it really. It’s been shown the past three years that any contract can be moved.

        Wells, Crawford, Gonzalez, Reyes, Beuerle.

        With FAs all you’re giving up is money for a few years and if it doesn’t work out unload them for a AAAA bag of mediocrity and move on.

        No harm no foul. You know. Unless you’re trading a bunch of prospects for them instead of signing on the open market.

      • Can’t wait till Cano is playing 2nd for them next year

      • I don’t think it means the Dodgers are going to win the World Series or even make the playoffs. But word is Dodgers don’t care at all about payroll, that’s what would make me hate them in the Nl West is that they don’t care how much money they spend….. Media throwing words like unlimited. First team ever to have 4 20 million dollar players on one team( only one is worth it according the baseball players marketplace) First team to spend well over 200 million a season on payroll. They are worse than the Yankees. Have committed more than 300 million dollars in player salaries in less than a year since new management.

        I just think the amount of money being thrown around is ridiculous and with new spending caps on international free agents and the draft it makes it almost impossible to convince your fans you have a shot(Diamondbacks,Padres,Rockies) Not saying it’s impossible Rays,A’s have competed recently with high huge payroll spending teams and have success but the Rays used high draft picks and spending more in the draft than anyone…. Rules have changed. Scouting in development which was already important to small market teams is now crucial. A’s and Baltimore had a shit load of luck and players playing beyond their career norms to make the playoffs.

        I think it’s still possible for the A’s and Baltimore compete if a lot of things go their way but in the Nl West it’s going to be really difficult if the Dodges have an unlimited payroll. Now with set slots in the draft competing with the big boys is really hard thanks to huge tv contracts. The new collective bargaining agreement won’t expire for a while(10 years?)

    • Their, salaries, signing…. I know.

  81. The 2012 Dodgers and Marlins will make an interesting read 10-15 years from now. Someone will inevitably write a book about these 2 contrasting tales.

  82. This is what I want the Jays to do: trade for Matt Moore. Kid is a stud. Exciting to watch. Will be a star in 1 year. Trade D’Arnaud and Rasmus for Moore + a Sean Rodriguez or Mcgee for the bullpen. Or more likely, offer up Lawrie and change for Matt Moore cause that’s the only way the Rays will even consider it. Matt Moore = new David Price for TB. Get this guy AA.

    • Why would the Rays move him when hes signed an 8 years contract last year

      • Because they’re the Rays. I can see them taking an offer of Gose or Rasmus and 2 stud pitching prospects + change. Similar to trading away Garza when they did for all those players. Player for player it doesn’t make sense to trade MM but if you get a bunch of players back to help sustain your business model of fielding a competitive team without much payroll then it makes sense. I think it makes sense to overpay for him because his stock is the lowest it will ever be right now. I know it’s not low at all, I’m saying that he’s gonna take off next year and be the best pitcher in the AL with Hernandez. I also predict Verlander’s arm will fall off.

        • you can’t be serious , because if you are I will let Stoten sum up the thought process on this one.
          I’ll end up with the dream police at my door ( I know , that’s a cheap trick)

        • Since when has the Rays model been to trade young, cheap controllable talent AWAY?

    • Why would the Rays trade a guy that they just signed to an extension?

      Dumb post.

      • People, it’s wishful thinking for Christ’s sake. We’re not broadcasting to a nationwide audience here. For a minute I guess I was mistaking in thinking this was a comments section of a fan site. Shit.

        And if the Rays trade away cost controlled talent for more cost controlled talent it makes perfect sense. 8 years of MM for 30+ years of other prospects works out better if you’re spread thin on a budget.

        Or I could’ve just posted on the RA Dickey speculation…not that there aren’t 300+ posts on that already.

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