Uh… missing out suddenly doesn’t seem so bad.

If this isn’t the last post about Jason Grilli in the history of this site, I will be shocked, but I think this tweet from Bob Nightengale of USA Today requires a full-on look, rather than just burying it as an update in the post below…

So, it’s hardly a shit-tonne of money that the Jays have still remaining to spend, but apparently there is some.

Though the other side of this is that maybe it’s a sign they don’t think Darren Oliver’s $3-million will be on the payroll next season– especially since, even though he’s a right-hander, Grilli had reverse splits last season, holding lefties to a wOBA of just .217. Then again, Grilli had never been a reverse split guy before in his career, so I’m not sure the club would have banked on it continuing, if that really was the plan.

Meh.

I dunno. Judging by the photo, Grilli has some obvious, heavy problems. I mean, who in their right mind could share a laugh with the tool from Train. Though I suppose we can’t be 100% from this angle that he’s not grinding his teeth into dust, so… maybe there’s hope.

Comments (198)

  1. Kudos to being loyal…but the fucking Pirates? lol

  2. Meh

  3. Grilli who? oh..who gives a shit. Meh sounds about right.

    • You don’t find it interesting that the Jays had money to offer when a bunch of people are suggesting they don’t?

      • I remember Wilner said last week at the Winter Meetings they probably didn’t even have 2M left to spend. Who could have predicted that he’d be wrong again?

        • Maybe this money gets put into a frasor/lyon, or a lower level pitcher i.e. Charlie V and Marcum etc….

          • How accurate is Nightengales claim that AA put in a higher salary? Sounds like the Darvish story all over again

          • Maybe they don’t like Lyon’s price tag or demands to be an end-of-game reliever, or whatever, and tried to grab Grilli instead. If the upshot here is that the Jays re-sign Lyon to a 2yr/8MM deal (just messing around with numbers here), and there goes the extra money, so be it.

          • Please god no more frayzore

        • People actually still pay attention to him?

        • Maybe they are thinking that Oliver isn’t coming back, so they are trying to get other relievers??

          How much more did AA offer Grilli? What is the after tax money that Grilli gets if he accepts the Jays offer?

          Does Grilli have dogs that are banned in Ontario or a pet monkey?

        • +Billions and Billions

      • Just because AA is trying not to piss money away on just anyone, doesn’t mean there isn’t money to be had.

      • What he said was who gives a shit about Grilli, he didnt say anything about the money end of it.

  4. Interesting that a professional athlete actually turned down more money. Also, fuck Train.

  5. Train has some mad catchy songs. And I’m secure enough to say, for the whole world to.hear, that sometimes I like to sing along

  6. What is this “Train” of which you speak?

  7. Definitely suggests they’ll sign another reliever. Maybe they just liked Grilli more than Frasor or Lyon?

  8. Man, that IS the dude from Train. I thought he was some random fan on heroin who was miraculously selected by chance to win a car by way of an on-field promotion or something.

  9. But the Jays have at least, what, $4M still to spend.

    Hmmm. Who to spend it on?

    • Brandon Lyon?

    • The dodgers still have 100m apparently. their payroll is a modest 225m as we speak and they are still talking to free agents. They are truly nutz, as thye now have a payroll that will be about 125mMORE than the Jays and Tor have spent money.
      “daydream believer ” or what

  10. If we were going in the reliever direction would have liked to see the jays go after Soria for the 2 year 8 mill mark. Looks like the relievers are getting shafted more so than it looked like they would after big deals for Broxton and League… or maybe these are guys that only had a shot at one year looks and now they’re getting multi-year deals…

  11. You would think grilli would pick the jays over the shitty pirates esp after aa said free agents want to sign here after the big trade. Ummm so what free agents?

  12. I really thought Stoeten would pretend to actually like Train, to prove his ironic hipsterism. Looks like he’s one step ahead of us.

  13. His dad’s career ended in Toronto, he’s not taking the chance.

  14. What confuses me about them offering a contract to a free agent reliever is who are you going to demote?

    Here’s the projected relief corps as I see them

    Janssen, Santos, Lincoln, Delabar, Rogers, Cecil, Loup

    With other possibilities in the form of
    Oliver – if he doesn’t retire, McGowan – if he’s healthy, Happ – if they get another starter

    Because you’re going to have to remove one of them if you sign someone else, who has options left? I know Loup does for sure and I know Cecil is out for sure. Furthermore, is someone like Grilli that big of an improvement on any of those guys that you’d think you’d need to invest $4 million or more a year? I get that there might be issues with Santos and Janssen shoulders, and lets face it, the Jays haven’t exactly been paragons in the injury report department, but wouldn’t it better to reach into the minors for a temporary arm and spend the money on a starter? By doing so it would fill the spot you were going to give to Grilli anyway and also adds a little more versatility to the group by bumping Happ down as your long relief man.

    If they could go $4 million for a reliever, why not $7 or $8 million for a starter? Surely the starter would give the Jays the greater bang for their buck especially when it’s far easier to find someone from the minors who can give you an inning here or there. I worry that spending $4 million here or there on a couple of relievers is going to be a repeat of last years debacle with Coco and Frasor. The Jays spent $8.25 million between those guys in 2012. Money imo that would have been better spent on a starter.

    • Holy fuck have we forgotten how good mcgowan was supposed to be.

      Anyways, would you rather have Marcum or CV and Lyon/Frasor/Other Reliever?

      • I’d rather have Marcum any day of the week over one of CV, Lyon and especially Frasor.

        My point is, the Jays could potentially be blwoing an opportunity cost to add a starter over a reliever. Relievers which imo can be found with the minor league system. Stroman will miss the first month sure, but there’s got to be a decent enough arm to throw a single inning here or there. Again by adding a starter over a reliever you bump Happ back to the pen. Now for those Happ defenders here, are you telling me he’s good enough to be a starter but not good enough to beat out someone like Grilli for the a relief role?

        As for Cecil, he would not make it past waivers imo. His numbers vs left handers have been better than Oliver the last 3 years and that’s as a starer.

        • Brett Cecil numbers haven’t been better than Oliver, they’re not bad but it’s also a smaller sample size the last two years especially. Then you factor in Oliver’s numbers vs righties leaving me to say if Liver comes back I have no problem going with Oliver, Loup in the pen as my lefties for 2013. If Cecil gets claimed who cares. Finding left relievers that shut down left handed hitters are out there… A lot of them. It’s finding lefties that won’t tie your hands if a Right handed hitter comes up to bat, that are hard to find.

          • http://tinyurl.com/anspfg8

            VS LHP 2010-2012

            Better AVG, better OBP, better SLG, better wOBA. mostly done as a starter and having to go through the order multiple times.

            • I was going to look it up but then thought of how terrible Cecil’s been but clearly your right Cecil has been very good against lefties but would still take Oliver I’d just feel you would be handicapped with Cecil having to use him solely against lefties. For what Loup did in his rookie season I think he deserves it over Cecil which is the reason I don’t care if Cecil is claimed. The last few years I have not liked AA strategy of keeping out of option players simply because they’re out of options it leaves you having to throw out guys like Dana Eveland, And Jo Jo Reyrs night after night. Cecil could have. Dominat spring vs lefties and righties and Loup struggles I’m all for Cecil in the pen. But have not liked Cecil’s last two years. Especially the taters he’s given up against righties.

          • Where did I hear that Cecil was going to take the same velocity enhancing course that Delabar did? Should be an interesting ST. Last year he promised he’d lose the weight and he did…..
            hmmmm.

        • Happ and Grilli aren’t serving the same purposes for a team. Happ is best utilized as rotation depth and a long reliever. That Happ is capable of going multiple innings and sliding into the rotation is his value added. That’s obviously not what Grilli would be here to do. So I don’t think that it’s about “beating out” a Grilli-type for a bullpen spot. Cecil’s the one that Happ would seem to knock out of the bullpen in my eyes if the Jays brought in another starter.

        • Christ Frasor is a Fukstik. He’s gone forgetaboutit for fuksakes. They don’t need to spend 4m on a guy who gives up a HR about every 5 innings and takes about 35 minutes to throw 20 pitches. Send him back to his buddy Ken W on the Chisox

    • Santos,McGowan, Janssen are not sure things, maybe their injuries are worse then we’re led to believe. McGowan and Cecil In my opinion would clear waivers. Jeremy J is the one I think wouldn’t. Loup, Rogers, Licoln, Delabar have options, but having said that I think those four deserve a shot to start the season in the pen.

      • I should have said deserve a shot to start the season in the pen if nothing better comes along. I’ll still take Lyon.
        Anyone know what Valverdes price would be for one year… might be worth a look.

      • Cecil would not clear waivers. He has had success as a reliever and he costs nothing.

        • Who cares, Happ, Oliver, Loup you don’t need moree than 3 lefties in the pen especially since that all Cecil is…. Cecil would not face right handers at all.

    • What debacle with Frasor? The guy was fine as usual.

      • 4.12 ERA and 14% HR/FB rate. Or maybe the 4.5 BB/9. All for the bargain price of nearly $4 million a year. Not sure about you, but to me that’s below average for any reliever. FanGraphs had him ranked 121 out of 161 relievers who pitched at least 40 innings in 2012. Combine that with Coco and for $8.25 million, or more than 10% of the opening day payroll, that’s a debacle imo. Maybe Frasor’s share of that isn’t close to what Coco’s was but there’s better ways to spend the money imo especially when the payroll was that small.

        • Frasor had a 4.10 FIP/3.76 xFIP/3.26 SIERA in 2012 in what could probably be described as an off year for him.

          I don’t know what exactly it is that you hate about him, but his presence on the team cannot be accurately described as a “debacle” (and certainly nowhere near what Cordero was). He’s a fine reliever and should continue to be one for the foreseeable future.

          • I hardly hate him. I just think his production for the cost is horrible. He gets a pass from a lot of people because of past production and the fact that he’s a nice guy. That last good production was in 2010. If he was making the league minimum then fine, but 7 times that? Again for me it comes down to opportunity cost. Put the money towards a starter or relievers? Again you’re correct that by himself he probably doesn’t belong in the debacle category.

          • Night Manimal, nobody gives a shit whether or not he’s a nice guy. He’s a good pitcher, and you’re looking at year-to-year samples of like 50 or 60 innings tops. Basically, he’s not that different a pitcher than he was in 2010, and the difference the last couple years is that a handfull of extra fly balls have left the yard.

            Wait, you’re not the guy who doesn’t like FIP, are you?

          • You need to do some research on FIP for relievers and then you’d find out that it’s the least reliable out of all the estimators and especially so in small sample sizes.

            However, lets use FIP anyway for the sake of argument just to make you happy. fWAR, which is largely based on FIP as you know, shows that he’s been about 25% to 33% as effective as his last good season in 2010 in 2011 and 2012. Therefore I don’t know how you can say he’s basically the same pitcher. He still is Jason Frasor I suppose, but all of his peripherals have declined since 2010, some of them quite substantially and the results have been mediocre. His FIP has gone up about 24% over the last 3 years.

            BB/9, HR/9, GB rate, BABIP, HR/FB % all have worsened in the same 3 year time period. FanGraphs had him ranked 121 out of 161 relievers in 2012 by fWAR, 91st out of 161 relievers in 2011 and 52nd out of 163 relievers. There’s a trend and it’s not a positive one.

            Sure the sample size is relatively small but what reliever sample isn’t?

            My whole point regarding Frasor is that he’s not worth the money he made last year especially if he’s set to make more due to the inflationary environment for relief pitchers. If he’d sign for a million then ok, but $4 million?

            Since his FB velocity seems to be fine, it’s entirely possible that he bounces back to 2010 levels but why take the chance when the Jays have possible replacements at a fraction of the cost?

            Maybe I am missing something here when 0.2 fWAR > 0.9 fWAR. The original discussion was never about Frasor in a vacuum. It was about his and Coco’s contributions to the team for %10 of the opening day payroll. Surely a combined -0.2 fWAR for both at such a large percentage of payroll isn’t good? Maybe not quite a debacle, and yeah I probably exaggerated there some, but it’s pretty bad all the same.

        • Why are you citing a pitcher’s HR/FB rate as being indicative of something, let alone a reliever’s HR/FB rate over 43 innings. The walk rate, sure. Although if you’re going to note that, his strikeout rate also spiked last season. If anything, the high home run/fly ball ratio works against your point by suggesting that the ERA that you cite is overinflated from what can be expected going forward.

    • Rogers would seem to be a candidate to be in AAA if he doesn’t pitch well in ST.

      • Yep, he’s had one good half season, basically. Not sure why people are acting like he’s an unmovable piece. Or Jeffress, who is out of options. They gave up nothing for him– he’s like a waiver claim– and while I’m sure they like the arm, he’s not a guy you use to block a quality veteran like Grilli or Frasor or Lyon.

        Even Lincoln… he’s a nice arms with some value, but really? People are confident enough with these guys to turn up their noses at improvements?

        I don’t get it.

        I get that it was beaten over our heads at the end of the season that the bullpen was “fixed,” but a lot of that was Oliver, Frasor, and Lyon, too.

        • I’d fight to keep Lyon. the guy was unreal for us last year.

          but he might get a 3 year deal, which might not make sense for the team

    • they are going to packaging in an arm when they trade arencibia/gose/rasmus for pitching help. Makes it easier to say see ya to Happ after we sign Dickey…hence
      always looking to add pitching depth

    • Maybe they want insurance incase Santos isnt the same? Didn’t like what they saw out of Lincoln and Cecil?

    • … maybe AA’s looking to have a replacement in hand when he deals Oliver (+?) to Texas

  15. Yeah, I’d agree. And by signing/trading for a solid late rotation starter the Jays both improve the rotation, and also strengthen the bullpen by adding Happ. I think we could probably get Marcum for around 2 yrs, 16-18 mil. Or maybe some one cheaper like Bedard or Colby Lewis

  16. He said slightly more money, probably a 2 year 7 mil offer, with the minimal tax difference it’s probably the same anyway.

  17. $20 bucks says at the end of all this, the Jays end up bringing back Villanueva and he makes at least 15 starts this season. He just seems like one of those guys that keeps coming back because there’s no better alternative

  18. I like Trains.

  19. Am I the only one who does not feel confident in our bullpen so far. I mean if your listing cecil as your only lefty I think your in trouble. Look for the jays to add some more depth pushing these scrubs out of our line. Frankly, I hope we realease cecil.

    • They have Cecil, Loup, potentially Happ if they get a starter and potentially Oliver if he doesn’t retire. Add to that guys like Delabar who has reverse splits and dominates left handers. Janssen has also been equally effective vs LHP as he has RHP.

      • That’s why CV is the logical choice heifer you can’t guarantee him 30 starts in 2013 however

        • I realize “Los Del V” is found grating to some ears, but that is no reason to call him a ‘choice heifer.’

      • Loup had a great season last year I totally forgot about him. But Before delebar came to the jays he was having a horrid season with the mariners. Jansen is coming off surgery you never know how he will respond. Oliver will retire. That leaves us with a lot of question marks. All im saying is we need some more depth and a couple more quality guys we can rely on. I really want lyon back.

        • saying delabar was having a horrible season w/mariners before jays is a bit of an overstatement no? either that or you have real high expectations…. casey went in for cleaning, nothing to be concerned about.. loup was solid. cecil had success. rogers should be able to step in nicely,

          jeffress lincoln are ?’s – oliver and retirement (although one would imagine him taking this long is a good thing )

          carlos in the pen is not that bad of a thing but it has to be pen and spot start if need be.

        • I wouldn’t worry too much about Janssen’s clavicle shave procedure. Its not like he had reconstructive ligament surgery on his shoulder or anything.

          Rivera had the same procedure in the 2008 or 2009 off-season and was back in full form the following spring training,

          Interesting that both pitchers have plus cutters (of course, Mariano’s is out of this world).

    • You are not alooooooone
      I am here with youuuuu

      Sorry, first thing that came to my head. I agree wholeheartedly. People tend to prefer the smell of their own shit I guess. Look around the league, especially at the better teams. They all have nasty relievers. The Jays don’t have any nasty relievers. Cecil is a joke, he belongs in the minors.

  20. My favorite part of this post was when you talk about how the jays dominate the world.

    I friggin love THAT!

  21. Is Perez going to pitch at all next season?

    • He is likely on the same schedule as Drabek and Hutchison. I think he had his surgery after Drabek but before Hutchison so maybe by August. I wouldn’t count on any of the three to contribute much to the major league team in 2013.

  22. Why don’t we offer to up Oliver’s salary by a million, and ask him for a decision. If he still is undecided or wants to retire, the Jays can move on. He is so good at what he does, it would be worth a little more.

    And if he wants to go to Texas, the Jays need to get an actual asset back. Do not give him away.

    • i cant see the money being an issue for him..

      i mean he has 3 million on the table and that doesn’t seem to be motivating him at all.

  23. Turned down our better offer??? Well, fuck you very much. I’m feeling somewhat miffed. But I will take it in stride, and be the better man. Enjoy Pittsburgh and I hope your arm blows out.

    • Maybe he wasn’t guaranteed a permanent spot in our bullpen????

    • Once you factor in the difference in tax between Pennsylvania and Ontario it probably wasn’t a better offer – it was probably the same or worse unless the Jays offered a fair bit more than the Pirates.

      In any event, I think the Jays should be fairly happy with the Bullpen as it is right now and if we get Oliver back all the better. Of the right handers we have penciled in right now I’m not sure he’s enough of an improvement over anyone to justify paying ~3.5 million a season for.

    • dude if anything deserves a tip of the hat. rumour was he sought a third year, fairly apparent we didnt offer it. so he decided to stay where he was for less. not many people in pro sports do what we all yell at our pc’s about. showed some loyalty to the team and fans. nothing wrong with that.

  24. Pittsburgh is home to those that can’t handle the American league.

  25. as for pitching, one thing that intrigues me is happ and his #’s PHI vs HOU vs TO – maybe just being on a shitty team and shitty environment caused him to lose focus? if he can maintain a 1.2-1.35 whip 9+k/9 and 2.8 k/bb, as a 5th nothing to scoff at. very possible to see 12-14 W with those peripherals. as for his lower babip in ’12 maybe we can attribute that to better defense? defense will help that. having confidence in your fielders does tend to lead to better pitching and we do have arguably one of the better defensive teams about…

  26. Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the games and form their own opinion on players. All it takes is a little baseball acumen and a lot of free time. In my humble opinion, Brett Cecil has very little value on a championship calibre team. Same goes for Frasor. Watch them in clutch situations. In fact, put a couple hundred bucks on the Jays and try to sit through watching them pitch in a pivotal part of a game. Far too often, they simply fuck shit up. Pedestrian pitchers at best. There’s no excuse for employing these guys if you’re trying to build a winner, other than nobody else wanted to play here. The only guys I like in the pen are Jannsen and Delebar. If Santos can somehow be 100%, and I’m not counting on it, he’s pretty good too. Rogers has some giddy up in his pitches, lets see if he can get on track. Jury is out on Jenkins, Lincoln and Loup. Sucks that we lost Perez, that was a big blow. I liked Lyon too, he always looked in command and poised. Cant see him coming back. Sucks that Oliver might not be back either. All of these questions and losses make the Jays pen a huge question mark heading into 2013.

    • I used to defend Frasor. Then, one time; I was defending him against a friend of mine’s assertion that he was chokeing fucktard. He loaded the bases and then gave up the Salami. The next time I saw him in a game, he did the same shit. So I agree, he sucks.

      • 1.47 WHIP last year… Shakier than Lloyd Moseby in a an earthquake. Oh yeah, so fucking solid. Fuck him.

        • Hasseys face is killin it. Release that googly eyed Brett Cecil. He’s a level 36 shitballer. If he and former klansman Lind are in the lineup opening day, this team will fail. Also train is actually an ok band in small doses!

  27. Got half way through the comments and had it ruined by advanced metrics…

    In regard to Grilli sharing a laugh with the guy from Train, sure that band sucks but wtf is he going to do? walk away and be like “fuck you bro I hate your band” in front of the home town fans? Jesus you really are a moron sometimes.

    As for Grilli, who gives a shit, the guy wanted to stay where he’s comfortable, big deal, his rabbits foot will fall out of his pocket soon enough.

    And for Cecil,,,to whoever brought his name up first, thanks for that, fuck I sincerely hope he isnt part of the bullpen but if he is, I hope this Walker fella can teach him what no one has been able to yet and thats how to keep the fucking ball DOWN IN THE ZONE.

    Jesus….. im a grouchy asshole today.

    • YEAH!!!! Train baby! thumbs up and grrrr!!!! I bare my teeth at you in a weird desperate attempt at smiling. Fuck Train.

    • Fuck Cecil… Seriously, how many chances do we give this guy? He’s not an MLB calibre pitcher. Just watch him pitch. Its fucking scarier than Willie McGee in a haunted house. If he’s back, it’s a clear sign of desperation on the Jays part.

      • ^^THIS^^

        Seriously, AA should have a goal and a goal is to improve the fucking bullpen to the point that Shit Cecil and his patented belt high “crush me the fuck over the fence” ball arent involved in any sort of depth chart that concerns the pen.

        I like the look of the pen however his name should not be noted in any kind of 2013 conversation unless the subject of that conversation involves the Buffalo starting rotation or perhaps an MLBTR blurb about Cecil being released.

        Like said above, how many chances does he get? For me personally I am not feeling confident in any bullpen that involves his name. If AA had $X to throw at Grilli then that money could as easily be given to Lyons or someone else on the FA market that would potentially block Cecil from toeing a major league rubber for Toronto.

        The pitching equivalent to Travis Snider, period.

    • You deserve a good kick in the balls

  28. Fuck Grilli, the Royals are gonna win a few games this year!

    http://pregamesheiza.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/royals-look-legit-ish/

  29. The market for righty relievers is pretty deep, so… Whatever.

    I’d like to take some time to explain why Kyle Farnsworth is worth a decent look, but I am already in my pyjamas…

  30. Why not sign Lyon? The guy was so fucken solid, as good a reliever that the Jays had last year. Sign Villy also

    • It’s not whether the Jays want to sign him, it’s whether Liono wants to be here. He will explore his options as a free agent, he has no loyalty towards Toronto. That’s just reality. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him go back to the NL to try and extend his career.

      • Why wouldn’t the cock sucker want to sign here? Does he want to win or just jerk everyone else off. I think I need another beer

        • Keep drinking big guy, it’s got your juices flowing. Lets see why a guy wouldn’t want to sign here…. Hmm… It’s another fucking country, taxes are higher, I gotta cross through customs and shit, I play in a market nobody cares about in the USA, I have to pitch in AL east parks, against AL hitters…. Fucking DHs….. I’m near the end of my career, not sure how many contracts i have left…. might want to make my numbers look good this year….hmmm… Perhaps a few years in pitcher friendly San Diego might be a better option? Maybe LA? Or how about the NL east. Or anyfuckingwhere in the NL?

          • How many chances do you get to win? All I have to say is Fuck You and your bullshit explanations

            • Fuck your bullshit blue kool aid beer sipping attitude, I’ll have none of it. Like Toronto is the only place where you have a chance to win. On top of that, ever heard of job security? Way better chances of success as a pitcher in the NL, that’s just reality. Can’t blame him one bit. Toronto, unfortunately for some, is not the centre of the universe.

          • San Diego = not so pitcher friendly anymore after they move the fences in at petco.

            • Whatever fence mover update guy, you get my point. Pick any pitcher friendly park, and chances are they’re higher on Lyon’s list than the Jays are.

  31. Apparently the Indians are interested in CV. I hope we sign him. He’d be all kinds of useful.

    • Doubt CV is going to sign in Toronto where 4 rotation spots are already spoken for and the 5th starter is probably going into the spring above him. Especially if Cleveland is after him, where the #1 starter nearly put an ERA of 5.00 last season, the #2 starter was even worse, and rotation spots 3 through 5 aren’t credible major leaguers at this point. It’d be insane for somebody who wants to start for a full season for the first time in their careers to choose the Jays over the shitshow that is the Indians rotation.

  32. Your Awl Rong Aboat Grilly not singing with the jays. Eye herd his gurlfrend dittent want two moove two Canada. Eye think wee should of offered too yeers 20 million two Soreeawnoo. His FIP was amazing and his War was like 18

  33. It sounds like the Red Sox are actively shopping Ellsbury so maybe that cuts into any market for Colby or Grose.

    • Ellsbury will get Farrell a blowjob. Who the fuck cares? The real issue is would you trade Rasmus or Gose in a package for Dickey? I keep changing my mind

      • Gose is worth about as much as a used fly swatter from a garage sale. Quick as shit, but pretty fucking useless otherwise. Like a trip to the Brass Rail, guaranteed bust.

        • Hassey, Gose is worth so much more than Rasmus, it’s not even funny.

          • Oh yeah my bad, cause he had a better September and figured everything out. I should really pay more attention.

          • Hassey, and a better August, and plays better defence, and has six years of team control remaining versus two for Rasmus.

            Maybe you just don’t understand what “worth” means?

            • Oh shit of course, a whole month more of being better than a guy who hit below the Mendoza line woo fucking hoo! Can we control him for more than six years? Lets sign him to a lifetime contract cause of that amazing accomplishment makes him worth so fucking much. Maybe a silver slugger award too. Lets also do the same with Sierra, cause hey, he was unbelievable in July and August! And fuck, defence is so overrated. I’ll take the guy with the skills and ability to drive the ball with authority and a little less outfield speed than a guy twice as fast as Gose with his same bullshit abilities at the plate. He’s a fucking pinch runner nothing more. Unless you like strike outs, then he’s your guy.

              • Hassey, if only sarcasm equalled knowledge, this would be the smartest thing ever written.

                Unfortunately, you’re clueless. What are you basing your supreme knowledge of these players’ “skills” on, exactly? What factors do you consider when projecting future performance? And please explain how defence is overrated– I’ve not heard this before, except from idiots, so I’m very interested in your take.

                • My knowledge is based on stats and watching the game. I base future performance on what they’ve done already. And defence comes secondary to hitting, which is much rarer and therefore way more valuable talent to roster. You can fire Bonifacio or Rasmus into CF, and the drop off in defence (however you would measure that in the first place), is far less than the drop off in offence if you fired Gose into the lineup to replace them. And by fired, I literally mean shot out of a cannon, which I think MLB should institute as their new way of introducing opening day lineups for the home teams this season.

                  • You’re missing important context for stuff about Gose, I think. For one, some of his MiLB stats are skewed by the fact that they weren’t allowing him to bunt, in order to focus on refining his approach when swinging the bat. Yes, he looked horrible in August, but he fixed some things, mechanically, and was a lot better in September– seems to me you’re valuing one month more than the other because it better suits the conclusion you’ve already made. Gose had pretty nice numbers at New Hampshire for the type of player that he is, and while the Vegas ones are skewed and not easy to interpret, they’re certainly not indicative of something being wrong.

                    What IS wrong, though, is your notion that defence is overrated. There probably isn’t much difference between putting Gose or Rasmus in this lineup right now, because Gose makes up as much with the glove as he loses with the bat. I get that Colby has a higher offensive ceiling, but Gose doesn’t need that kind of ceiling to be a very valuable player– a more valuable player than Rasmus, unless we’re talking about the 2010 version.

                    I wrote this in a post the other day: with his horrible August as a counterbalance to the nice September, and defence and base running factored in, Gose was worth 0.6 wins per FanGraphs (0.4 per BR). The FanGraphs number, prorated over 600 plate appearances is better than the 1.4 Rasmus was worth (per both metrics), and the BR number gets him very close.

                    Yeah, Colby can maybe be better if he hits, but thanks to defence I don’t think his ceiling is out of reach of Gose, and I think Gose– especially after we’ve now how bad Rasmus can potentially be with the bat– has the higher floor. And he can absolutely be a much better hitter than your “he is what he is at age 21″ analysis suggests. This is a guy who had his swing rebuilt very recently in the past. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to think he’ll continue to get better– better enough to be more than a Dewayne Wise? I don’t know– but the point is, neither do you.

                    Then you factor in their contract situations and, again, Gose has a hell of a lot more value– in the abstract, at least. You could get a much better player in trade for Gose than for Rasmus at this point, I believe. And if the Jays dealt Rasmus, I don’t think it’s crazy to think that Gose could hold his own in the Majors– there’s just so much value in the defence that, again, the bat really doesn’t need to be much.

                    • Seems like you’re picking and choosing months, not me. I’m looking at both of their entire pro careers. Not just Rasmus’ horrible end to last season or Gose’s final two months. Forget the small sample sizes to draw conclusions on a guys “mechanics”. Doesn’t it concern you that Gose had to rebuild his swing entirely in the first place? Also, remember when Baseball America ranked Rasmus the #3 prospect in all of baseball back in 2009?
                      Also, I completely disagree with your assessment that Gose makes up more more with his glove than he loses with his bat. I think his bat, especially his propensity to strike out, is a major liability to any team’s offence, especially a team that’s supposed to be a playoff contender. He’s not even a guy who can put the ball in play if needed, unless he resorts to the ever so dangerous bunt.
                      Neither of us can predict the future, lets not be silly. I hope Gose figures things out. But if I were a betting man (and I am), I’m not following Wesley Snipes’ advice from Passenger 57 in this situation.

                    • Hassey, Stoeten is right for the second time ever, Gose is going to a good hitter.

                      Give him 300 at bats and another season and he will be a dandy.

                      My dad, Kelly, was fuckin atrocious in his first season, maybe two, and came around nicely, and conceived me me with a lovely lady from south Central Mississauga.

                      You should put you by gigantic jowls to rest on this son, and watch him bloom like a gorgeous spring flower this…………. SPRING!

        • What the fuck you doing mentioning the fucken Brass Rail? Those are good times. Maybe the Jays can get some of those bitches dance during the game or put on a whore show or whatever. Anyway, why does everyone think Gose is shit? He’s young, will get better, could be impact player with his speed. Rasmus? I don’t know what to make out of the fucker. He had a great June last year, otherwise he mailed it in

          • If there was a whore show at the games I wouldn’t care who was on the team. Fuck bring back Coco Cordero and lets see him shake it with some rippers, I’d cheer him on. As for Gose, check his numbers since he became a pro and get back to me on your he’ll get better because he’s young money back guarantee bullshit. The guy sucks at baseball. He can’t hit. Doesn’t get much simpler than that. Hey maybe he’ll take a job to be part of the worlds fastest grounds crew. They still do that shit right? He’d be perfect.

            • What do you make out of Rasmus?

              • Still think he has potential to be an asset offensively. Showed it with the Cards a couple years back, and then here and there in parts of the following season. I thought he was breaking out with the jays mid season (like most of us did), then I think he started putting too much pressure on himself after coming back from the injury. Overall he seems like a streaky motherfucker, and when hes on, hes on. AA mentioned this in an interview ( the pressure thing), and it kinda makes sense. He looks pretty serious out there, and has a jerk off for a dad who is always on his case. I think the bump further down in the order will do him some good. I don’t mind him as a number 6 or 7 hitter with his pop and decent wheels too. He could surprise a lot of his critics with less pressure on him since he won’t be at the top of the order.

          • Gose is on pace to become a Lofton type player. Both started their minor league careers as slap hitters who would put the ball in play and run it out. He will adapt and has insane speed and defensive abilitiy to compensate until he does

          • Oh just shut up already. Youre like listening to a drunken idiot try to explain the meaning of life. You have good points but you deliver them with the tact of a derelict.

          • I like how you use Gose’s bunt restriction as evidence that he can hit.

    • Eye agree. Their are lawts of guys availible still. Guys with lawts of xflip and 23-24War. AA should of singed Grenkee. His UZEr was 12 and his BayPippy was 450 above replacement.

  34. Motherfucker in the pic looks like Jason Bateman from Arrested Development

    • I will ask again before I blow this fucken place up. Where is Hamilton going?

      • Wherever there is the most money, the least pressure and preferably the lowest amount of day games lol

  35. Kevin Correia 2 yr deal with the Twins. Can’t wait to see Edwing and JBau sodomize the Twins in Minny this year!

  36. Grilli is the guy on the left, right?

  37. Ahh, love the DJF comment section.Starts with a post on Grilli and develops into a debate on Rasmus and Gose.
    Of course, the right answer is to have Gose start in AAA Buffalo,out of the PCL and see exactly what you have. If Stoeten’s right about his Sept. 2012,then he’ll rake and get called up when Rasmus is traded for additional starting pitching.
    And you might have to figure something out if Gose rakes in AAA AND Rasmus starts to hit with the Jays.
    Ditto TDA and JPA.

    • @Radar

      Plus 1 as the kids say.

      I have no problem with Gose in Buffalo & Colby starting the season in CF.

      If Colby does wel, which I hope, then he could either be extended or traded depending on requirements in 2013.

      The best news for 2013 is that Colby doesn’t have to carry the team like he tried with an injury in 2012.

      Didn’t Colby have a hamstring issue last year? At one point last August he was one of 2 opening day players on the field.

      Colby & Lind will benefit from less stressful hitting situations.

      • Yeah, it’s probably a little illogical of me to still believe in Colby. I could see him coming out of it, in May of last year.First defensively, then with the bat.
        Since Colby told his dad “to back the fuck off”he’s had a new attitude.He’s now a father and has had to grow up. he ‘s entering his second to last arb year and hopefully that motivates him to earn a big payday by improving his game.
        If not, those are Goses footsteps he hears behind him.
        And I think you’re right, lower in the lineup can only benefit him.

  38. The big fucken issue that you fuckers are missing in regards to Colby is his strikeouts. I think the guy struck out an insane fucken amount like 149 times. He needs to get that below 100. Also, we need about an avg of 260 27 HR 85 RBI. Also 20 SB would be nice. Is any of this realistic? I wouldn’t mind an OPS near 800 also. How about Lind? Platoon him with Davis. Combined avg of 245 21 HR 75 RBI OPS 750. Do we get that? Also, why is nobody worried about Lawrie? He came up in Aug 2011, in 43 games hit 9 HR. He looked like a superstar. In 2012, he looked average. What should we expect from him this year?

  39. More important than Cecil’s lefty/righty splits is the increase in velocity out of the pen. I believe in short spurts last year, he was up to 91 or 92 out of the pen. Cecil’s descent from 3 starter status to bullpen was when he lost his velocity. If he can add 2 or 3 mph out of the pen, he becomes a much more valuable asset.

    • Perhaps after following Delabar’s throwing programme this offseason (which he’s said he’s doing) he’ll come into ST throwing at 95… Winter optimism.

      • The guy who sells that programme could make major $$ if he can get Cecil throwing 95. I thought I remembered (a long time ago) him topping out at 93 They’ve both got lots of incentive.

  40. CV would be an ideal candidate to bring back.

    Also, I think when people talk about rotation depth after Jenkins, most forget about Esmil Rogers who IMO is another example of a swingman type guy who is going to play a bigger role for the Jays than many think. Hopefully he keeps it together as he did in the 2nd half last year.

    • Lincoln too. And Cecil. Both can start in a jam.

      Has anyone noticed that I’ve added my mistress, Kate Bolduan, to the Situation Room? Fuck she’s a hot little slut.

      Did I mention I’m from Buffalo?

  41. Just pay Carlos what he wants to stay as longman/6th starter. The guy has been solid, and having someone reliable to slot into the rotation in case of injury could prove key in a playoff race.

    I’d guess both AA and CV are keeping their options open at this point, but resigning does seem reasonably likely.

  42. Snider must have said something grrr, snider!

  43. Ron Hassey’s gigantic face, is that you Mr. Rasmus???

  44. Two things:

    From MLBTR, I thought this was interesting “The Royals also tried trading Myers to Oakland for Brett Anderson only to be turned down, Passan writes.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#TY1GK2I53FbSRh7Z.99

    Wow, we’re we ever off thinking Billy Beane would trade Anderson for Escobar, IMO.

    And 2; this tweet from Colby Rasmus at the end of the season:

    @Colby_Rasmus28: One more game then heading back home to Toronto for some much needed rest and take care of this nagging injury! And go for it next year, eh!

  45. What/who is Train?

  46. OK — explain Train by way of a baseball metaphor. GO!

  47. Even more shocking than the photo is the fact that Stoeten — with his pathetic poser hipster beard — has the nerve to mock the appearance of the Train guy.

  48. I’d love to pitch in Pittsburgh
    You don’t have to worry about keeping your schedule open in October.
    No pressure as you won’t pitch an important game after the all-star game

    If you do well – you are one of the only ones – added plus for next contract
    If you stink – you can blame it on the poor clubhouse, meaningless games, empty stadiums

  49. Andruw Jones signs in Japan for 3.5 mil – so there goes that thought of him being a DH platoon for Lind – kind of surprised he couldn’t get a job in MLB but maybe he wants more guaranteed at bats? He still has shown consistently good power and on base ability in his last 3 years despite a poor batting average and no defensive range – like, i havent looked too in depth, but how is he much different than Jonny Gomes? Both seem almost identical players and Jones is a few years older – or is Boston just that crazy when they signed Gomes to that deal?

    • Sayonara to one of the dumbest names in baseball history.
      Andrew knows what I’m talking about.

  50. And on the Dickey front

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/latest-on-mets-ra-dickey-1.html

    Seems like he doesn’t want to be a Met much longer unless they meet his demands for his extension

    The fact he wants this done before opening day, however, means this song and dance could drag on all winter long

    • Trade for another starter than as teams will probably be scared off by the mets price for dickey such as smmardjzia

      • Depends what Texas does. If Olt is traded elsewhere or if they sign someone like Sanchez or E Jax, then the Mets have one less serious suitor for Dickey. The longer they wait, the less value Dickey will have, as most MLB teams will become pretty set in their rotations.

        I’m perfectly fine waiting with AA waiting it out, since it’s obvious the Mets dont see Dickey as a long term extension candidate and he’ll become increasingly disenfranchised with the Mets

        If Dickey continues that rhetoric, I think Mets are more likely to take a trade of less desirability than to pony up and pay him – hopefully that’s when AA pounces.

        • still gonna take some good pieces to get him, but I’m hoping the longer this goes, the less it becomes a JPA/Gose or GTFO from Mets brass.

          Or as the Royals trade suggests, it’ll have to be expanded considerably, which i dont think Texas or TOR want to do at this point

        • You could also look at it from the point of view that as FA pitchers dwindle a desperate team might become desperate enough to give in.
          Having said that, I agree with waiting it out. I get the feeling AA gave the Mets and offer he was comfortable with, or a couple of situations and told them to call him back when they accept one of those deals.
          I would be curious though to know how much interest he has in the FA pitchers or if there are any other trade opportunities he’s targeting.
          Maybe he’s loving this attention to Dickey as he’s working something else out.

  51. I really hope there is a new post soon. Tired of looking at crack addict Doug Flutie, every time I visit

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