Hold the phone, what’s this? Mike Puma of the New York Post has some juicy details about the R.A. Dickey trade talks, and a deal that was “on the table” this morning, which… well, let’s just see what he’s saying before we go calling it nuts, OK?

Except… before that even, let’s all take a deep damn breath and think for a second about what “on the table” means.

No, I mean it. Think about what it means, please.

Ready?

Puma’s Post colleague Joel Sherman offers some much needed sense…

So… that’s crazy. But not necessarily in the “oh my fuck he can’t possibly do it” way, I don’t think. At least not until we hear some more names here– or until we get clarification as to whether “on the table” actually means something the Jays were seriously considering, or something the Mets floated and then got shot down.

It’s crazy because it’s huge, and because Syndergaard and d’Arnaud are such huge talents.

But so is Dickey, and if this really is something resembling the deal, I think we can expect that the player coming back from the Mets will go a long way towards evening it. And I think it’s reasonable to start thinking that the Jays might be looking for a big pre-arb arm who has options and can be slated for Buffalo– of which the Mets have a few.

Jon Niese is a name a bunch of people are throwing out there, but I just don’t see how it can possibly be a fit unless you’re moving someone like Ricky Romero– and while I very likely would take Niese over Romero, I highly, highly doubt that’s a thing the Jays are about to do.

Zack Wheeler and Matt Harvey could fit the bill, but they’re much too good for the Mets to be giving up along with Dickey, I suspect, meaning everybody is looking to someone like Jeurys Familia or Jenrry Mejia– a couple of hard-throwing 23-year-olds who might be best suited for the bullpen, thanks to a lack of secondary stuff, but who are still starters for now, and who have crazy power arms that surely must tantalize the Jays’ front office.

There’s certainly value in having someone at the Triple-A level, with so much of the Jays’ best minor league prospects so far away– and with the move out of Las Vegas possibly changing the development path, as the club no longer has to try to avoid sending their best arms to the PCL. Syndergaard is a fantastic arm, of course, but add one of those Mets pitchers and you actually have someone to call on, other than Chad Jenkins, Deck McGuire, Joel Carreno or making the big reach down to New Hampshire for Sean Nolin, in the event that a starter or two gets hurt– and also possibly to help bridge the gap to guys like Nolin, Aaron Sanchez, Robert Osuna, Matt Smoral and Dan Norris in the case that the club isn’t able to keep Josh Johnson around.

That said, expanding the deal to include Syndergaard isn’t going to do anything to make those losing their minds at the thought of giving up d’Arnaud feel any better, but so what? Their hissy fits at this juncture are just collateral damage in the Jays’ grand scheme of hoarding and lionizing prospects– thereby building a prospect-frothing fan base– then dealing from this massive pool of strength in order to improve the big league club in ways, and on a timeline, they’d have been incapable of doing otherwise. The club has shifted gears, acting like the Yankees and the Red Sox used to– with a supreme confidence that whatever gets depleted from the system will be built back, and that the pipeline is so strong as to be unshakable.

That’s not to say it doesn’t hurt to think of what maybe headed to New York, but the big league club is so ridiculously better for it in the near-term, and with at least Dickey (presumably), Buehrle, Romero and Morrow locked in for the next few years– and possibly Johnson before all is said and done, too– the necessity of holding a Syndergaard in the hopes that he can break through into their midst likely is lessened, given the fantastic short-term gain, and the host of other lottery ticket arms the Jays are still holding.

It’s horribly reductive to make blanket statements against a deal like this by pointing out that all prospects are unproven and the attrition rate is staggeringly high– you really need to look at each player you’re referring to on his own, I think– but it sure is funny to see so much consternation over these guys possibly being moved, so soon after the Jays got Brad Stinkin’ (see what I did there?) for Travis Snider– as stark a reminder of how hard prospect value can fall as we’ve seen around here in a long, long time. I’m certainly not saying Syndergaard and d’Arnaud will bust– I think there’s a good chance that they don’t– but this is by leaps and bounds a better return than the club got by holding onto their Great White Hope, and these prospects are certainly no more “can’t miss” than he was.

Not every prospect is destined to be Travis Snider, but at some point on all of them you have to roll the dice. Do you sell at what you think is the high point– say, offering David Wright for a half season of Jose Cruz Jr.? Or do you hold them tightly and refuse whatever ridiculous offer comes your way– like someone trying to pry your studs Jesse Foppert, Jerome Williams and Kurt Ainsworth away with some bum named Halladay.

You know?

Uh… I don’t know. R.A. Dickey!

(And maybe one of those other pitcher. Amazin Avenue’ has interesting posts on both Jeurys Familia and Jenrry Mejia, which you should probably go ahead and read).

 

Image via Simon Druker.

Comments (905)

  1. I go to the bar, and return, and this god damn thing is still not settled?

  2. they dont work on the weekend

  3. If the unknown “prospects” in the deal turn out to be something like Sierra and either Wheeler or Harvey, it would suddenly be the Jays who fleeced the Mets.

    I really hope this shit ends tomorrow morning.

  4. I wonder if Gose will still be dangled as trade bait for something else. They seem to want to pawn him off somewhere. Theoretically we still need to upgrade DH, C, and maybe CF.

    It would be nice to package Lind with Gose for a decent DH bat. C and CF might be tough to upgrade though.

    • CF is not a need.

      • Rasmus isn’t a sure thing. Sure he could turn into the CF we need, but at this point we need to accept that’s no certainty.

        That’s what Gose is for. If Rasmus fails this season, we give Gose the CF job. If Rasmus succeeds, we can trade Gose. But that’s a question that won’t be answered until mid-season.

        • That’s probably the right answer. I doubt JPA is going anywhere at this point and the rotation seems set now along with the position players.

          Getting a platoon partner for Lind or a replacement is probably the next thing to get done. Maybe upgrade the bullpen but if Happ is bumped but there may not be many spots to upgrade.

    • We are a team rich in CF.

  5. Bring me Solo and the Wookiee. They will all suffer for this outrage.

  6. Even if it is TDA & Syndegaard in this deal, it’s amazing what AA has accomplished in just over 3 years on the job.

    He inherited a mess of a major league team, mess of farm system and his first big assignment was trading Roy Halladay.

    As much as this could be an overpay, AA is the guy who acquired all of these prospects and obviously he can do with them as he sees fit.

    The Jays would have arguably the best rotation in the AL (certainly top 3 I think) and arguably the best team in the AL as well.

    All on a $120 million payroll with probably still an average farm system with upside.

    Silent assassin indeed.

  7. Wilner is now saying TDA, Syndergaard, Sierra, Stroman & Smoral to the Mets for Dickey, Parnell, Thole and Familia.

    • hrmmmm yikes

    • Good lord, are these reporters just throwing names at a wall and seeing what sticks? Every hour there are different players involved in the trade.

    • yikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkes I don’t know what to make of it

      Dickey and Parnell are nice pieces. Thole is a backup catcher suited for Dickey, nothing special but has some value. Familia seems like a project, but I don’t know much about him besides looking at his minor league stats.

      The Jays give up roughly 4 good to great pieces for 2 established ones. I can live with this trade, and it will be worth it if Dickey continues to play like he does.

    • chum in the water….da na…da nA…da NA
      Fuckoff chum!

    • Set roman could be Parnell. Thole is worthless and Familla is a reliever in the big leagues for Smoral, Syndergard and TDA. Sierra isn’t much but I think he’d be a good return for Thole. Not buying this trade at all.

    • WTF??
      Don’t know how many times we have to go over this but Smoral, Stroman and last years class c/n be TRADED yet!
      They could go as a PTBNL, in theory, but that is it. This w/b such a ridiculess overpay that if wilner did say it, he should put his ass in a sling because he is becoming a fukstik

  8. both prospects are going to be non-elite prospects so low end. see what happening on Monday.

    • So what youre saying is Darnaud, Syndergaard, buck and a low end prospect for Dickey, Thole and a low end prospect?

      That is robbery… wont happen.

  9. Assuming the deal is TDA, Syndergaard, Buck and a non factor for Dickey, Thole and a non factor…both teams get what they need – it’s a win win.
    Id say the mets recieve the more valuable package…but with Dickey the jays go from fringe playoff contenders to possible world series threat. I think we will be able to resign him without much trouble.
    The Jays are certainley making out better than the Royals
    First of all, over the past 3 years DIckey had been better than Shields.
    2. We are giving up the 11th and 83rd prospects (mlb.com) while the royals gave up the 3rd and 30th
    3. The deals puts the jays into a different category, while KC will probably not make the playoffs until after Shilds’ tenure

    As I said, a lot more than i expected to give up (at first i was thinking gose/jpa)
    but the jays did get the best pitcher availible and still have an ok farm system.

    • Youre high,,,

      TDA, Syndergaard, Buck and a mid level prospect

      for

      Dickey (extended), Thole and either a solid prospect or Parnell.

      There is no way around the fact that the Mets absolutely have to include more than a catcher that cant hit and a low end prospect.

      • if TDA and NS are both getting traded, not to mention some other decent prospects, I want Parnell and Dickey.

        but it’s a roll of the dice. the jays could end up with the better players, in which case they win

      • You’re drunk…

        injury prone AAA Catcher w/no mlb experience, low A level pitcher, backup catcher that sucks w/salary paid by miami and a low end prospect

        for

        Reigning Cy Young winner w/comparable stats last 3 yrs to Price, a backup under cheap control for several years w/decent on base skills and a low end prospect

        There is no way around the fact the Jays absolutely have to get the best pitcher available and possibly put them over the top rather than masturbate to prospect porn.

        • So you basically don’t care which prospects are involved as long as the Jays get the reigning Cy Young winner, correct?

          Good to know.

          • I’d say it’s more the quality 3 years and on the upswing but mostly the fact he’s likely the ONLY top pitcher available for the Jays.

          • Cy Young winner to help win WS. Anyone does that. But please.keeo your prospects and see if they pan out in 2016.

        • Talk all you want but for TDA and Syndergaard there has to be a good prospect or Parnell coming back in addition to Thole and Dickey.

          Im not talking Wheeler or Harvey or Familia etc im thinking someone in their top 10 prospects.

          • might as well be Parnell, going with the win now theme, and he is a need

            • Would love to somehow get Lind and Ike Davis in this trade along with Parnell. Last thing I read about the Mets and Ike Davis was report they like Duda more than Davis, how much longer do the mets think they can throw Duda out in the OF.

          • Wheeler is their number 1 prospect.

            • Not knowing all the players involved: I still feel. I can say without a doubt Wheeler and Harvey will not be in this deal.

          • @ Maybe, I agree, I stated a few hundred comments above that there would be no way Mets deal either of those arms in a rebuild.

            My comment about wheeler was meant for Buck when he said that he wouldn’t want Wheeler, he’d want one of their top 10 prospects.

          • @Smasher

            Rebuild or not, would the Mets trade either Wheeler or Harvey for TDA straight up?

            Considering how fixated they are on acquiring a catcher, I think they would. Obviously it’s just a guess, though.

            Would AA do that. Maybe, but we really don’t know.

            It’s entirely possible that AA said “we absolutely will not give up TDA for Dickey, but if we can expand this deal we’d consider moving TDA.”

            A “rebuilding” Toronto team traded Brett Wallace for a supposedly lesser prospect in the time in Anthony Gose.

            It can absolutely make sense for a rebuilding team to trade top prospects if the return is right.

            A return of TDA, Syndegaard+ may qualify.

        • You sir are a trolling idiot. 38 yr old pitcher is a 38 yr old pitcher knuckler or not.

          • Some guys are just freaks. Phil Niekro had excellent seasons from the ages of 39-45. Also lots of pitchers have played well into their fourties, guys who relied on heat even, whereas Dickey doesn’t rely on hit or even control (although he can somewhat control his knuckleballs). Wakefield did pretty good in the AL east up to about age 42/43. Candiotti had a good year at age 39, but had a lot more mileage on him than Dickey. Knuckleballers are a different breed.

          • Jimmy you are being very kind to the idiot caller. Nice example of decency even though Dwayne clearly needs to learn more about pitchers

  10. If the Jays are going all in with an extended Dickey (sorry) by giving up TDA, Syndergard, Buck and Sierra,( more or less), then Dickey and either Davis or Parnell, plus Thole would make more sense coming back than Dickey plus prospects. Still not hoping it goes through though.

    • its high risk high reward. we could’ve just traded travis snider and kyle drabek for an ace and a very good reliever. or it could go the other way. it does make the Jays much better for the next three years, before those prospects will be impact players most likely, if they ever become that good.

  11. Dave Cameron weighs in on all of this…comparing it to the Royals trade.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/how-to-go-for-broke-blue-jays-style/

    • In saying that AA made his move after a bigger move which makes it better..than the royals deal

    • Exactly. We have had too many years of not playing in the playoffs. It’s time to go over the top and win.

    • They also forget to mention that 3 starters when down to injury and Bautista was hurt for the second half.

  12. damn Dickey has been clocked at 59 and 83 mph with knuckleballs. He tries to have 1/4 of a rotation so that the seams of the ball rotate ever so slightly and get a bit more “bite” out of the air. it is a pitch that simply can never be figured out, because it’s always different.

  13. I’m thinking AA doesn’t give a shit who he gives up with impending apocalypse only a few shopping days away.

  14. get Dickey, Add Villneuva and Brian Wilson and someone that can team up with Lind..hell carlos lee, Delmon young or Juan Rivera and you got a pretty good team. I dont see that costing more than 7-8 million this year to add those 3 pieces

  15. For those of you not getting your Dickey wet 2nite here’s some rad nippon league highlights…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oz7GQU0kXc

  16. In comment section below Dickey article on MLB.com Mets fans want OF prospects Gose or Davis rather than TDA. One other met fan agreed but said he’d rather Blue Jays OF prospect Raji Davis….. Yeah guy thinks Rajai is the shit. To be fair to the first guy, I believe he mention DJ.

  17. Kind of agree on Syndergard and TDA for Dickey is to much. TDA with non elite Sp for Dickey…. I feel is fair, in my opinion.

  18. Adding Dickey would be amazing, but … It just feels like we’re giving up far too much. I think I could get my head around trading one, but not both in this deal.

    Only Sherman and Puma has reported Syndergard’s in right? Maybe we can hope theyre wrong.

    • They’re just repeating what they’re being told by the Mets. It’s notable that the more balanced, national reporters are now keeping quiet.

  19. I think TDA for Dickey straight up is fair. Throw in Buck + Sierra for Dickey’s personal catcher and call it a day. Unfortunately the Mets don’t covet TDA as much as we do and don’tsee this as a good trade.

  20. Remember one thing.
    AA isn’t making this decision in a vacuum.
    He has many advisors,cross checkers, sabermetricians and old fashioned baseball people to tell him the pros and cons of all the players involved.
    This shit has been analyzed to the nth degree by people he knows and trusts.
    And those collective minds have thought this out more than everyone on this board put together.
    In AA we trust.

    • Well put Radar.

    • AA has faith in Dickey. He is confident that Dickey will pitch quality baseball for several years to come. Enough so to trade for Dickey using his top prospects. Let’s weigh out the scenarios. In the best case scenario the gamble will have payed off, and d’Arnaud and Synergaard fail to meet expectations, and Dickey pitches like an ace. In the worst case scenario both players become stars for the Mets and Dickey is a flop.

      The timing of the trade also has to be factored in. If Dickey is successful and contributes to a playoff run by the team then his value is pretty immense. This is the reason why we cheer for the Blue Jays. It is not about watching prospects develop, we have watched Halladay, Wells, Delgado, among other players, develop well into their prime but had nothing to show for it. Is it time to sell prospects and compete in the now? AA can fix things down the road, maybe free agents, other trades, and new prospects. We can watch Syndergaard and d’Arnaud grow into good players years from now, but not lament the fact they were let go, because spending them on major league talent was worth it at the time. Of course if they win it all and Dickey is a part of it, then the move is undeniably the right move.

      I hope that AA is able to keep Syndergaard out of the trade. Any young player but Sanchez and Syndergaard should be availible. Trying to get them to take Gose + other prospect instead of Syndergaard perhaps makes the deal look better.

    • I second that Radar.

    • Well said Radar. In a recent BP podcast, Kevin Goldstein, who is now the Pro Scouting Director for the Houston Astros, said that MLB clubs have access to information and scouting reports that are extremely detailed and have further access to medicals, spray charts, video, etc etc etc.

      The information available to MLB clubs is far and away superior to anything that is used by sabermetricians or baseball analysts such as Keith Law, etc.

      I am sure that AA is mining all of the available information on this deal and that he has proper guidance from his staff. As for some in the DJF monkey army, chill the fuck out. Your subscription to Baseball America does not make you an expert.

    • ya wow, that pretty much sums all that we need to know up. I would pretty much feel ok with what ever as long as AA doesn’t have a guilty conscience about it.

  21. Yet more bullshit being fed to NY media by the Mets as an obvious and fairly unsophisticated negotiating ploy. If I were AA, I’d be very tempted, as a matter of principle, to tell the Mets to go fuck themselves (although he has said in interviews that he would never do that, however annoying the leaks were).

  22. Dickey pretty much through a no hitter last year, and followed it up with a complete game one hitter. This guy can be devastating, and he hasn’t shown signs of slowing down.

    • threw*

      Imagine the scenario that he pitches like he did in 2010 or 2011. It’s a huge boost for their playoff hopes. Buehrle and Dickey can be the inning eaters, while Johnson and Morrow throw heat but might spend time on the dl. Romero + Happ battling for the last spot is a good thing too.

      I keep having different reactions to some of these trade scenarios, but I think Dickey is the only option AA has to get that much value without spending insane amounts of money or trading even more prospects for another ace pitcher. I am ok with whatever happens, but I think I want the Dickey trade to happen more.

  23. SP – R. Dickey
    RP – Bobby Parnell
    1B – Ike Davis
    C – J. Thole
    prospect

    for

    1B – Adam Lind
    C – Travis d’Arnaud
    C – John Buck
    RHP – Aaron Sanchez
    RHP – Noah Syndergaard
    OF – Anthony Gose

  24. DO NOT TRADE TDA!

    ‏@Buster_ESPN

    Evaluators around MLB are beyond shocked TOR is talking about trading Travis d’Arnaud for a player with one year on his contract, Dickey

  25. Would much rather see them keep the prospects and spend on Edwin Jackson – Syndergaard barring injury is less than 2 yrs away. Would *never* give up anything of substance for a knuckleballer – coming of a Cy Young year or not. Too much risk here. Unless you are getting Wheeler or Harvey in return this is a foolish trade as currently rumoured.

    • +1

    • sorry…but I call bullshit respectfully. I do not think they have the $$ to sign a FA of that caliber. They will have to compete with the like of Ranger, LAD, Massholian’s et al. for such a pitcher. At least in this case they have the prospects that the Mets covet and other teams do not necessarily have, ie. #1 ranked catching prospect.
      And there is no fucking way Wheeler/Harvey is coming back, it would make no sense for the Mets unless the Jay’s are shoving in more prospects.

  26. Additional Jays prospect appears to be Sierra. Additional Mets prospect likely to be RHP Bradley Holt, former first round draft pick.

  27. Mets have offered to add Ruben Tejada and top pitching prospect Jenrry Mejia in deal if Jays return Jose Reyes back to NY

  28. I also heard that about Jose Reyes. Apparently Reyes is not happy about living in Canada and is angling with AA to get dealt back to NY in the Dickey deal.

  29. Jose Reyes can go fuck himself. I heard that too on TSN. Unbelievable. Is Tejada and Mejia enough for him though? Mejia was going to fill Dickey’s spot in the Mets rotation so they may need to promote Wheeler earlier then.

  30. TSN reporting deal may be expanded to be TDA, Reyes, Syndergaard, Buck and Sierra plus $ to NY for Dickey, Thole, Tejada, Jenrry Mejia and Brad Holt??? Wtf?

  31. Reyes doesn’t want Toronto? Unbelievable.

  32. Tejada is very good and Mejia throws 100 mph but getting Reyes back would be a coup for Alderson.

  33. Get it done AA you idiot!

  34. Don’y you have anything better to do at 7:00 am than to pretend to be various people in order to start a lame false rumour? Go back to bed or have a pop tart or something.

  35. Reyes is legitimately being rumored, I heard it as well

  36. AA is not going to trade Jose Reyes. He’s just not going to do that, even for David Wright. It would undo everything else he’s been trying to do this off-season. If he’s giving up all of that to acquire a 38 year old CY Young winner, then he’s clearly gunning to win now. Trading Reyes would completely undermine his ability to do that.

  37. If the player coming back is Brad Holt, then it’s spare parts. Guy’s 25 and spent 3 years in AA with significant control issues.

    A couple writers (Heyman, Joel Sherman) talked late last night about the astronomical price on starting pitching this year, and that the Jays see themselves as having a 3 year window for many of their key guys. I guess this is what “win it, now” looks like but man it’s not a great feeling to be giving up that much.

    That all being said, I’ll be selling my furniture to buy Jays playoff tickets.

  38. That said, the idea of “legitimately being rumored” is pretty great. I totally understand where you’re coming from with that (as in rumored by legitimate sources), but we’re still talking about rampant internet speculation here……

  39. I think the idea of Dickey, Thole and a prospect for D’Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck and Sierra makes sense. It sounds like a fucking lot, but it at least makes sense. I’m HOPING for Dickey, Parnell and Thole for something like that instead, but I guess we’ll see on Monday or something.

  40. I guess if all of this blows up in AA’s face (as could totally happen), he can always move these parts for other assets (prospects or players) at the deadline.

  41. Reyes is not going to be traded. Period, exclamation point. Sphincter.

    Who would play short?

    Not gonna happen.

    That’s just silly.

    • Tejada would play SS. He’s the Mets SS now – 23 years old and hit almost .300 last year. Reyes will always be remembered as a Met and never wanted to leave there but they were stuck in Madoff mode at the time. He went to Miami to be close to the Dominican Republic but is miserable about going to Canada and playing on turf.

    • Gotta agree with you.
      Aside from “who plays short”, AA has a stated goal to try for an allstar at every position. Reyes is a pure lead off man.Reyes came back from Dubai and the first picture we saw of him, post trade, was a tweeted pic of himself in Jays gear.While Burhles(sp?) and JJ’s reactions were less than favourable,Reyes actually embraced the trade.
      One of the reasons Reyes wasn’t re-signed by the Mets was the money situation with the Mets.
      Rumour makes no sense.

  42. Is this for real ?…….Reyes wanting NY over Tor. ?? It doesn’t make sense at all. Why would Reyes choose the Mets, who are years away from seriously contending. In Toronto he has a real shot, right now, to make some waves. doesn’t sound right to me, especially if he wants to win

  43. Awesome, insightful commentary over at TSN, btw.

  44. I am blown away by all the negativity over this trade. These guys are PROSPECTS people (and one is a pitcher, and we all know the flame out rate for those)…. you expect to get a Cy Young pitcher for scraps? We have not sniffed the playoffs in 20 years, it’s about time we go for it. This is what Beeston promised, now it is happening and everybody is bitching about losing players that have not played an inning of MLB. I don’t get it.

    • +1…The Force is strong with this one.

    • You need prospects to make further deals. So when the media people who cover baseball and cover trades thinks Syndergard and TDA is a huge overpay, then you try to figure out why TDA isn’t enough for Dickey Straight up. I don’t want to give up more prospects if we don’t and I don’t believe we do…..Mets clearly don’t want to sign him and reports are out there that the Rangers and Angels didn’t offer nearly enough in a deal compared to Toronto and that’s when it was Gose and JP. You need prospects to make further moves. Frankly Syndergard and Sanchez should be untouchable since Morrow maybe hasn’t figured it out I think he has but it’s been one season. Romero of old might never come back and 2011 numbers by him are a thing of the past. Buerhle arm kind fall apart. Josh Johnon wants to much money and could walk now your looking at a shitty Romero your rotation, 2011 Morrow, broken Buerhle, 39 Dickey in your rotation and no legitimate SP that can be great other than Sanchez if this deal goes down as reported. If the blue Jays keep spending money than it won’t matter but if 120 million is your budget JJ walks after this year and you have Sanchez in the minors as the only one scouts believe has ace potential. If Rogers is going to spend more money to plug holes in rotation if Romero sucks again Morrow is 2011 and JJ walks then I agree with you this trade and it’s prospects is irrelevant!

    • @Vader.

      I agree but you have to remember that the new generation of propspect hipsters saber geeks are trained to value prospects above all regular MLB players.

      This organization always told fans about the value of prospects & giving a second chance to the Jo Jo Reyes of this world.

      In fact, the main reason why the Jays are in good shape is that they took a chance on Bautista & Edwin, who are now performing well above expectations.

  45. Kenny Ken Ken tweets:

    Can’t judge reported proposals for #Mets’ Dickey until deal complete. At first glance, D’Arnaud-Syndergaard seems overpay by #BlueJays .

    Unless A) #BlueJays sign Dickey to extension and B) #Mets also send back quality prospect. But again, need to see full deal first.

    • Rosen Rosen with a little bit of long overdue sensibility

      This tells me too many parts are still in play to really suggest what’s going on – Mets want TDA but want a pitcher too, AA trying to expand the deal but probably not getting what he wants back in return, hence the delay, although they’ll chalk it up to some bullshit like they are still going over medicals

  46. I think we’re at the ‘throwing names around and maybe a couple will stick’ phase of this process. So are the journalists. I imagine, given how public this has become (thank you JPR!) that the Mets are coat-trailing to see if any other team wants to come to this dance. There was a report on Friday that a mystery team had fetched up. Of course that probably came from old Barnum & Bailey as well but it’s not impossible. Somehow really crazy stuff happens when Ricciardi is anywhere near a Cy-Young-winning pitcher-trade. I have not forgotten the shit that went on at the 2009 trade deadline. Halliday eventually played the season out here and we may have gotten a better deal for him if Ricciardi hadn’t used the media to start a feeding frenzy and pissed-off his lovely bargaining-chip to the point where he refused to go anywhere until after the season was over. The guy just never learned when to stop stirring the pot.

  47. I think that the jumping on people who are criticizing this deal is a bit much. We’re talking about a top-five prospect in baseball, plus a high-upside A-ball pitcher, likely the second-best arm in a strong system. That is a lot to give up for a single season of a 38-year-old pitcher, Cy Young-winning knuckler or not. I recognize that Dickey is almost certainly the best arm available out there, but a package of Nose and TDA has significant value, and I would hope that AA has explored other means of leveraging that value into assets with more present-day value.

    The chance that neither player works out should not be a balm to soothe the jangled nerves of the apprehensive fan; it should be a mathematically rigorous input into the value analysis equation. Ditto this “flags fly forever” nonsense. To what degree does adding Dickey increase the Jays’ 2013 pennant-winning odds? To what degree does the potential trade help or hurt their pennant-winning odds in subsequent seasons? Yes, there are other considerations to be made here, such as fan response and the appeal of Toronto as a free agent destination, but the first consideration has to be whether the Jays are getting fair value for two considerable assets.

    I can’t help but think the Mets are making out like bandits here.

    • A high-upside A ball pitcher… that says it all right there. The attrition rate for these guys is enormous, so you have to account for that in a “mathematically rigorous input into the value analysis equation”.
      I don’t love the trade, but it certainly is not highway robbery for the Mets if it is what is posted by Sherman last night. Look at what the Royals gave up for Shields… this is the going rate for elite level pitching. We know the Jays are not the only suitors.

    • The speculation I’ve seen puts d’Arnaud’s inclusion as dependent on Dickey signing an extension. There’s no doubt D’Arnaud + Syndergaard + … is a huge overpay for 1 year of Dickey. For three years though, it’s a high price, but not crazy.

    • @Matt. I get the overall gist of ur post but when you start it out with a made up fact….well I am not sure where you are getting TDA as a top 5 prospect in MLB. From what I can tell none of the ‘major’ releasors of such list have not released said lists. Best I can find from a few blog posts is #15 and #28.

      All of your question in the second part are good but gotta for the love of the fucking baseball gods think that AA has already run thru these a million times. And for all the fuck we know he may back out of this deal yet.

  48. I hate….HATE that Travis d’Arnaud AND Noah Syndergaard are likely out the door. It’s an overpay & there’s no sugar coating it.

    But again, consider where this team was not very long ago.

    We saw Brian Tallet start ‘Opening Day’ at the Dome. BRIAN TALLET (!) pitching in front of 50,000 to start a season.

    JoJo “Summer of JOJO” Reyes & his 29 game streak of losses.

    5 years ago fans were subjected to Tomo ‘Ohka Crisis’ & Victor Zambrano on the regular.

    Josh Towers serving up meatballs anyone?
    Gustavo Chacin?

    Right now there’s a possibility that Ricky Romero could be the #5 starter. Let that rattle around in your head for a few minutes & think about the years & years of playoff futility. Not even getting a sniff of what it would be like to see the Blue Jays play in October.

    • I have never before seen the nickname Tomo “Okha Crisis”, and I love, LOVE it. Thank you.

    • Gentleman, BRIAN FUCKING TALLET on opening day!?

      Have faith in AA, lads.

    • excellent recap. I had already forgotten ( thankfully) this absolute collection of dung. The one I do remember is tallett and the opening day game ( and then of course we had to take him back from Stl in the rasmus deal ’cause they didn’t want him either).
      I had forgooten JPR trying to sell e’one here on what a steal Okha et al were-fuk. the only decent smell Chacin gave off was his fukin perfume.
      To add to your list of misert, last year we had the C suite walk thru-Carreno, Coello, Chavez, Cordero Crawford, and other assorted shit like Pauley Dyson etc.
      Thanks for the reminder-good job! ( jo jo reyes-jesus H Christ)

    • Bart: “Look, I’m Tomokasu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!” No matter how bad Ohka was, he’ll always have that moment.

      But seriously…the NL Cy Young winner is in Toronto.

    • @fontcrimes well said.

      It would be unthinkable a the beginning of October 2012, that Romero would be the 5th starter in 2013 with all the upgrades to the rotation.

  49. Link is the Jays top prospects from BA for the past decade.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2012/2612728.html

    There’s one guy on the list I would be a little excited to have……. And it’s Alex Fuckin Rios.

    And seriously… Jays fans look at Michael Young as “the one that got away”. That’s the biggest loss from a prospect trade in the last decade.

    Seriously?

    Get this shit done and start re-stocking the farm.

    • I completely agree. Nobody knows how prospects play out, even the best-rated ones. And people during that span said Toronto had a “great farm system”, that JP knew what he was doing.

      Here’ s my question, though – isn’t there another pitcher out there the Jays could be dangling this bait for? Someone who is closer to 30 than 38?

    • Alex Rios was/sorta still is a hell of a ballplayer.

  50. I think as jays fans we are overrating Syndergaard. He is a solid pitcher, who projects to be a #1 or #2 -but in single A ball, hes still 3 years away from the majors. A lot can happen in that span of time.
    Same with D’arnadu – he will be solid but not a Posey/ Mauer type.
    According to MLB.com TDA and Stndergaard are 13 and 83
    According to fan graphs they are 36 and unranked

    • Nothing against you, raptors, (except of course the basketball thing!) but we all have that tendency, to downgrade the guys that are being traded. You can almost set your watch by it.

  51. Here’s what I wrote on another thread: I grew up in a town where the Maple Leafs were on page 10. I grew up in a town where 4 million people showed up to watch baseball. I grew up in a town where baseball meant everything, and baseball ruled the streets. It’s been too long since that existed. I want Toronto the baseball town back, NOW.

    Last night I went out for a friend’s birthday and we spent half the night talking about baseball. The current team, the Dickey trade, and memories of years past. And half the people at this party don’t watch baseball. It was so damn beautiful.

    Toronto is the team to beat in this division, and Toronto the baseball town is back. Re-stock the prospect cupboard, because baseball means something again in Toronto. This is the town I grew up in. A baseball town. I fucking love it.

    • Amen good sir.
      Well said!

    • I didn’t grow up in the T-dot.. nope that was out in cottage country, but I can remember when it was cool and the thing to do to go to a jays game.

    • @sharkey.

      At work people know I follow the Blue Jays closely. They are asking me about getting tickets next year. The dental hygienist asked me last week how to get a flex pack.

  52. @sharkey the NHL being locked out really helps as well

  53. So bonafacio isn’t going to moved for an additional pitcher?

  54. wow one thing is for sure, people have sure got a lot of entertainment value out of these trade rumors.

  55. So if this deal goes through thole is strictly the backup and catches dickey or is he platooned somehow?

  56. WTF is Stoeten Jewish or something? He celebrating holidays right now? How else to explain the non updates? This comments section is a pain to navigate through on mobile.

    I think it’sa good trade for the Jays though I’d prefer to add more pieces and get Hernandez or offer Syndegaard and DArnaud for Matt Moore. Anyone think the Rays would do that? Doesn’t make sense for either team to do that, but from a pure player ranking perspective, a hypothetical…what would it take to get a MM from Tampa especially after they traded away Shields?

    Daniel

  57. Finally managed to get logged on from the U.K…..and STILL nothing!! Aargh!

    • hey I was wondering what your reaction w/b after a night of travelling. How dya think we feel checking every hour or so?
      I think there is still about 1/3 chance this deal falls apart as it just doesn’t smell right to me and watch out for texas or anaheim making a last seconfd raid

  58. Yo HEY Stoeten…Good Morning you burrito eating, cheap wine drinking, blogwritting Hipster! Can we get a new piece of scrap paper to scribble on?!? This one is feeling used and dirty.

  59. I still don’t know how the mets can ask for Syndergard. I know the full details are not out there yet, but so far deal does not look good. It’s not that I don’t like Dickey but every media guy that’s not in New York sees’s this as a huge, drastic overpay. TDA would be a centre piece in a Felix Hernadez deal. No one in the media seems to think the other teams interested in Dickey didn’t offer nearly the package the blue Jays did and that was when it was believed to be Gose and JP.

    • Yeah but you look at the KC Shields trade and how much money anibal sanchez got and you realise how valuable Dickey is. As for a Felix trade, unless TDA and Bautista were included you’re not getting the king for love or money

  60. If this deal doesn’t happen today then it doesn’t happen. Very unusual for a Blue Jays trade to be pending and imminent for days and days like this one.

    I remember when the Marlins deal happened, the Astros deal, the Rasmus deal…basically all of the deals…I heard about them and then before I had time to break it down and decide how much I liked them the confirmations came out. Here, it’s all backwards like Dickey’s pitch.

    • The hold-up could very well be an extension for Dickey. That could take days to accomplish – although if we’re in YOLO mode – sign him for the 2 yrs 26 he was looking for and move on.

    • totally common for deals being worked on/developed over the weekend to take longer, especially if multiple pieces are involved…can be tricky getting the medicals reviewed over a weekend.

  61. Our new rotation will be awesome. The 2013 BJ’s would beat the 1993 team 4 games straight in a 7 game playoff

  62. Screw this trade not giving up Buck:(

  63. The time to win is now… the relatively cheap deal that Dickey wants gives AA a much rosier outlook for the future, as it gives gives flexibility to try and work something out with JJ or other guys during the win-now window.
    And lets not get carried away with predictions on Syndergaard or DArnaud. We need to look at who they are now – high ceiling prospects. The key to this trade, like with most trades, is timing. Morrow and Lawrie could very well both have fantastic years ahead of them, but the rest of the core guys expected to deliver based on their pedigree ( JB, EE, JJ, JR, MC, MB, RAD) probably have their best years behind them. Some to a greater degree than others, and out of them, only RAD is really old. So the iron is hot, and AA is striking.
    Wishful thinking, considering what AA did with Miami, had me hoping they’d land RAD for Gose and JPA. The Mets were having none of it. They know Gose is shit, and you can’t blame them. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. So the up the ante to DArnaud. That should do it, right? Wait, they want Sydergaard too? Holy shit!
    I think the way things have transpired are dictating our feelings more than the actual end result. We were all at first thinking AA and his slick GM ways would steal Dickey. Then, we learn that it’s gotta be DArnaud, so were upset at first, because the trade doesn’t feel like as much of a “win” for AA. Then just as we’re getting over the “tie”‘, we feel like we just lost because Syndergaard is going to NY as well. However, if we stop and look at the trade for what it is and forget everything that led up to it, it’s not all that bad, is it? More of a win-win for all parties, especially if RAD signs an extension with the Jays? The Mets get two great young kids, the Jays get a guy who could perform like an ace for the next three seasons at a respectable price. That’s not the easiest thing to find folks. Considering we’re looking to win now, it’s actually pretty fucking rare to have the stars line up like this.
    So think from a high level, don’t try and predict specific player stats for the future, and at the same time, don’t make blanket statements. Look at timing and opportunity. Think about the current roster, think about what it takes for teams to not just say they’ll win, but actually go out and do it.
    Now that ive had the chance to sleep on it, this trade makes a ton of sense to me.

    • Well and too its not like AA would be giving up all of his pitching prospects.. and the other thing, I think AA would do an extention better than what Dickey wants.. something in the 4 years 45-50 mill range thats what I would do.. i mean thats a little better than the 10 mil a season he was looking for and would give you 4 more years of a pitcher who is baisically coming into his knuckle-balling prime. and the other thing is, would you rather have to wait for Syndergaard to be usful.. I don’t think so.. nope. Plus if AA can also boost a pitcher that can be called up if needed.. or more bullpen help, then damn this would be good..and the last point is.. its teh mets he would be trading with.. not even in the same league.. if it was an AL opponent then this deal doesn’t even get a whiff methinks

      • This all comes down to how much you believe in Dickey. It’s pretty rare territory to try and get a handle on what he’ll bring to the table. Knuckleballer who just won the Cy young at the age of 38. Doesn’t have a UCL. There’s nobody like him. Could mean he’s just a recipient of his easier hitting division, and a decline is forthcoming, could mean he keeps going and continues to pile up wins while striking out 10+ per game for the next few years. What I do know is he’s been pretty fucking good since he became a knuckleballer, knuckleballer arms last much, much longer than every other kind pf pitcher, and they are more effective indoors. All things considered, at the contract he wants, even if he provides a season which is comparable to the past three years, it’s still a pretty fucking good deal.

  64. Really hoping this deal for Dickey is falling through. Why is every guy so high on Dickey? Remember, he’ll be coming to the AL East. So add 0.50 to his ERA and than consider the deal again. Don’t base the deal on his NL numbers, thinking that’s what you’ll be gettting.

    We can do better. Let the team ride to start the season. We should still be near the top of the division as is. Then work out a deal for a much younger arm.

  65. The mets are getting great value but as long as we can sign the extension its a win – win deal.
    Dickey has better stats over the past 3 years than greinke and will be half the price per year.
    Only problem is, if we cant resign RA this deal is a huge disaster…but ik AA and im guessing he would only do this if he was 90% sure we could resign dickey

    • He wouldn’t even have to be “90% sure” he could include in the trade the requirement that the deal doesn’t happen unlesss they agree to it.

      And he’s not making half what Grienke makes next year he’s making a quarter.

  66. I get the impression that, if Lawrie and Gose and Sanchez were also in this deal, people would suddenly be finding reasons why dealing them isn’t the end of the world either. At a certain point, it is way too much. It is not as though D’Arnaud might be the top catching prospect in the minors next year or three years from now. He is the top catching prospect in the minors RIGHT NOW. He may end up always being hurt or otherwise not panning out but being the top prospect at the weakest position has loads of value in the present. Giving up D’Arnaud plus a 95+ mph throwing 20 year old starting pitching who is also ranked in the top 100 prospects seems like giving up more than the mets supposedly were even asking for in the first place (a top prospect and another good young player).

  67. Hmmm I would rather give the reported amount of prospects to the brewers for gallardo. Thoughts?

    • Personally, I mentioned Gallardo as a hopeful target a couple of times, which was before the miami trade. He flys under the radar but is very solid. With Milwaukee down Greinke and Marcum he w/b tough to pry out of there but I gotta believe a TDA and syndergarrd + one other solid piece like Sierra would do it or be real close. Tough to say but I’d be in on Gallardo as he started opening day for the Brew LY ahead of Marcum

    • Yeah that wouldn’t be bad. I’d still add in 1 or 2 more prospects and call Tampa about Price, just to see if they bite. As long as d’Arnaud and Syndergaard is in play, why the hell not ask?

    • How about mad cow disease? It was here for a while and now it’s gone, your thoughts?

  68. price is to high for a 38 year old, if were giving up 2 of our top 3 prospects i want a early 30″s pitcher who we can have around for 5 to 8 years and whos been a stud

    • Or keep the high end prospects, use the money you save on extending Josh Johnson and, if need be, sign one of the remaining free agent starters who you perceive to be undervalued. Or trade Arencebia and a prospect or two to Texas for Ogando who, if healthy, would be quite effective.

    • So we want to win now but we also don’t want to trade away any of the future. Christ people make up your minds, we are getting a Cy Young winner for a couple of prospects. One of which is about 5 years away from hitting his potential if he ever does, the other has been a star in the PCL which may translate into a slightly better version of JPA if he stays healthy.

      You want to win now you have to take some risks you can’t always get something for nothing. As for being 38, he’s a knuckleballer, he could potentially pitch at this level for 5 more years, which is generally the life span of a power pitcher anyway.

      • Who says that they cannot win now with the rotation as is??? As it stands, they should have one of the most dynamic offences in the game. And they have added Johnson and Buherle and, hopefully, a healthy improved Romero. Plus, D’Arnaud isn’t just some prospect. He is currently the “best” catching prospect in baseball during a year when multiple teams are desparate for catching help. You need to look at what else could have been available if teams knew TOR was giving up their two top prospects. At an absolute minimum, what would Texas have given up for D’Arnaud +?

        • Of course they CAN win with the rotation as is but the whole point is to increase the chances of winning and winning more games when all are healthy. Yes last years rotation injuries were on the high side but you have to figure at least one likely 2 going on the DL at some point in ’13 so Happ is the first call and not Jenkins or whatever other scrub they pick up.

        • Dynamic offences, the Jays have had some great offensive teams since 1993 and what has that got them? Pitching generally wins and its hard to come by so why not get a Cy young winner for a couple of prospects. I agree it’s a lot to give up, don’t get me wrong but there is no better time IMO, the Yankees arn’t getting any younger and all of a sudden are not buying teams anymore. The Redsox are retooling, the Rays are betting on the future, do we wait 5 years for these prospects to hit there prime or do we go for it now given the guys we got probable are in their prime now?

          As for a better deal out there, does anyone honestly believe AA would not have talked to other teams. It’s well recorded he is one of the most active GMs in the league. Yes he may have gotten a better positional player for the same package as they are not the same asking price as quality pitching but to your point the offence should be good.

          We need pitching as we should have a pretty good offence and pitching is at a premium right now as everyone wants it. We could go with what we have but as last season showed you are just a pitch or two from an Arron Laffy or fill in the blank being a regular in the rotation with injuries. Having the luxury of deep would be a wonderful thing.

        • @Upshaw If they wait and see it is likely someone else grabs Dickey, competitor or no. What the fuck is the price going to be in the middle of July when other teams are only a piece or two away?

      • When has trying to win now ever worked?

  69. Sign Marcum instead!! He’ll get us to the Promised Land!! No,wait! Even though they say he’s not available, phone Seattle to get King Felix – try and trick their GM into somehow trading him for a bag of magic beans! No wait! Lets now hold on to the prospects we have and hope we win in 2016 or something! Yargh! Hulk head explode!

  70. Griffin is making fun of JPR’s nose on his twitter feed, its driving us all kind of batty.

  71. I can’t believe another GM hasn’t called AA at this point and said he’d be willing to part with Player X for D’Arnaud and Syndergaard. You think Ruben Amaro Jr hasn’t called trying to get D’Arnaud back in some kind of deal, or that Theo Epstein hasn’t called to talk about Garza or even Samardzija if D’Arndaud and Syndergaard are on the table?

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that the deal, or however the rumours have made it out to be, is coming off as a bit of an overpay (as it stands with Dickey on 1 year and all) and that the Jays could surely find another quality pitcher available for the asking price of D’Arnaud and Syndergaard.

  72. I don’t know if this has been discussed but an ancillary point to all of this is surrounding Jose Bautista with exceptional talent to get the most out his peak production years. If you look at the deal in this frame then it’s a good deal. I do hate losing top prospects.

    Also to consider is how much would D’arnuad and Snydergaard net in other potential deals? Is that a basis for something involving Felix Hernandez?

    • To get Felix you’d need TDA, Nose, Sanchez, and Norris to start, then fill in the blanks. He’s awesome, but certainly wouldn’t resign for 3 yr/31M….Dickey’s juice is worth the squeeze…

      …see what I did there?

  73. The Jays’ minor league system supposedly fell from being one of the top organizations to being somewhere between 10-20 after the Marlins deal…which is fine because the impressive part of the Marlins deal was that TOR acquired all of that talent while still holding onto the very best prospects in their system. Doing so was very impressive. That they are now considering parting with two of the top three of (and arguably the two best) prospects in their entire system in exchange for one year (maybe three) of a 38 year-old who relies on a more or less completely unique 80 mph knuckleball and who has only had success in the NL does not make any sense. I love R.A. Dickey but I wouldn’t part with way more for him than Josh Johnson (Johnson netted lesser prospects plus TOR was getting Reyes + back as well). Keep D’Arnaud and Syn and do some other deal if considered necessary. Re-examine Arencebia for Ogando- ask Texas if they want prospects to make that work.

    • come on…you can’t just keep making shit up. Where did you read/hear that the system is now 10-20….why not just say 20-30!? Maybe I am the ass here and too much caffeine but FUCK. I heard somewhere in the last week, either on BP podcast or article also praising what they were able to do in the Mathis trade and still keep a top 5 system. Sure 5 is close to 10 but sure the fuck not 20!

  74. Holy crap, this place has become a wasteland! Are we beyond the Thunderdome yet ;)

  75. I know its Sunday, but we’ve had very little in the way of updates since yesterday evening. Someone must have given JPR a vacation to the Isle of Silence…

  76. @ Happster – I agree with you. Baseball people are all saying they can’t believe TDA is involved for RA Dickey plus Syndergaard given what the Jays are supposed to be getting back? I think RA is great and he comes at a reasonable cost but I think the Jays could get someone younger like Samardzija et al instead…but, we are all really just guessing what AA will decide to do. I mean the thing about AA is his word is everything. He was not going to go through with the Miami deal because of his promises to a backup catcher…in fact, he called the deal off for a bit, so, you never know what promises he’s made to certain players or what he’s being offered by a new team for TDA and Syndergaard OR what the Mets are possibly being offered.

    • They don’t need a shortstop I guess but are we sure that TEX wouldn’t deal Jurickson Profar for TDA and Syndergaard +? The Texas beat writer was talking about the possibility of TDA/Profar earlier in t]he offseason. Maybe they’d rather have Dickey.. But the point is that countless possibilities come to mind if you’re now preapred to give up that much young (and, in D’Arnaud’s case, major league ready) talent …

      • None of this from mlbrumors makes the proposed deal sound overly enticing; “… The broad perception in the industry is that if the Mets pull off the deal, it’s an incredible trade for them. The combination of Syndergaard and d’Arnaud seems like an overpay by the Blue Jays unless they can get Dickey to sign an extension and also land a quality prospect in the deal, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. Rosenthal adds that he wants to see the full deal before making a judgement on it, but Joel Sherman of the New York Post reported yesterday that neither prospect in the deal will be an elite one.”

  77. guys, this is a unique situation in that we have a 3 year window for our 1st wave of competing. We can get RAD signed for those 3 years and when JJ falls off the payroll next year (replaced by Hutch/Drabek/Nolin), we will still be at the roughly 120mm that AA and Beest say is the new parameter. Can’t say the same for other elite and “potentially” available pitchers.

    Is it an overpay in terms of talent and controllability. Sure, but AA always said the time to overpay is when you are competing for a world championship. The fact that he is possibly doing this deal shows you how confident he is that we are close.

    Also consider that we have a top 10 pick this year and will have 2 first rounders next year when JJ comes off, and the future will still look bright.

    Lastly, Jimenez and Osuna essentially replace TDA and Nose as part of the next wave.

    In AA we trust.

  78. I’m jonesing for a new post

  79. I would still make this deal. AA will just have to keep drafting well and making the small moves to keep this team fed. Plus you really can’t wait forever. This off season has been perfect timing to steal back the show in Canada somewhat, and if you have a big summer its even better. Plus having a guy like Dickey who doesn’t require a ton of physical maintenance how can you not value that after a season where we watched so many pitchers go down. Nope, and too I think you see AA give Dickey his Do…(see what I did just there (to borrow Stoetens bracket phrase)) and extend him…if he can extend him for 4 years and Dickey pitches even remotely close to last season.. its a win no matter what you had to give up.

  80. I get that people are saying we could get more than dickey…but we should definitely make some deal
    And who do you guys hope to get?
    Dickey has been one of the best pitchers in the MLB since 2010.
    if you guys think tampa will give price to a division rival or that seattle will part with king felix i dont know what you are smoking

  81. I know its been said on here previously, but i also feel this is an overpay and a deal that AA wouldn’t do. I’m usually not a conspiracy theorist, but I have a suspicion that this deal was dead long ago and the Mets are just leaking false information to their own press to find other suitors. We know AA doesn’t confirm trade talks publicly.

    • I think you’re paranoid. Also this is a good deal for the Jays – mobody is saying a thing about Rogers now are they? Lokks like most bloggers here are chicken s*** when it comes to the sacrafices it takes to win

  82. WTF is this happening? The intrigue is killing me.

  83. does the release of whiteside earlier this week to open up a roster spot, and a catcher at that, make sense that this is more likely happening than not? ie. Dickey + Thole added to roster and TDA+Whiteside off.

  84. Whowe really need as a catalyst in this trade is Jeff Mathis….

    Seriously though, I can live with giving up TDA for Dickey. Not Noah, however. Even if we extend RA for 3 years, the whole idea would be to transition the Lansing duo into the majors when the current members of the rotation begin to decline.

    I admit I don’t know much about the Mets’ farm (or even their current ML roster), but no realistic addition to Dickey excites me enough to give up NS

  85. Can’t help to think that with d’Arnaud & Syndergaard possibly being on the table that we might be able to shake free from the tree one of the ‘untouchables’ around the league like Jeff Samardzija?

    Maybe there is something more than random-chance that sees almost every notable prospect that AA has traded away turn into a pumpkin very soon after (Z. Stewart, Michael Taylor, Molina)

    • I keep seeing Samardzija brought up, but I’m not convinced he’s going to be any better than Dickey over the next three years and perhaps most importantly, Dickey is far more likely to be the better pitcher in 2013, in my eyes.

      • As a Cubs fan as well as a Jays fan, I’m hesitant to believe that Jeff Samardzija 2013 can even be Jeff Samardzija 2012, let alone RAD of any of the last three years.

  86. Regarding the “Dickey sucks in the AL thing”

    Interleague since 2010 (in other words, since he perfected the knuckleball and became what he is now)

    2010 – 21 IP, 1.29 ERA, .225/.271/.250 slashline good for OPS vs. .521
    2011 – 26 IP, 2.08 ERA, .198/.274/.365 slashline good for OPS vs. .638
    2012 – 24 IP, 1.88 ERA, .088/.151./.127 slashline good for OPS vs. .278

    And for the record, those opponents were NYY (3), Bal (2), Det (2), TBR, Oak, Cle

    Sample size is obviously small, but not without meaning. BAnd it certainly fits with the rest of the narrative…that is, since 2010, Dickeys been an elite pitcher, one of the best in baseball.

  87. Why would we trade 2 out of our 3 top remaining prospects for a guy that bounced around the majors most of his career and has only 1 proven season under his belt at age 38 when he finally got good at throwing his knuckleball and won a Cy Young? And if I’m not mistakin he was also cut by the Mets out of spring training a few years back. I mean I’d give up one prospect and 1000 Bucks as in John Buck for Dickey but not both, I really hope this deal falls through coz I’m sure for the players being offered, there’s gotta be a better deal to be had. Or hears an idea.. Hold on to them until the mid season trade deal-line and see what we need to make that final push in the playoffs? Then see what’s available and what’s being shopped around to treak this team. Don’t go trigger happy AA, that’s how bad decisions are made… Treak the bullpen, maybe aquire a Starter with out being stupid about it and let’s see how things begin to pan out starting in Feburary and u still have 2 very nice prospects to hang in front of GMs if we have areas to Improve apon. I do like to idea of keeping JPA, he has the chance and the Capability of seriously improving his catching skills this season esp IF the Jays do get Dickey and has to learn to catch that tricky bastard knuckleball.

  88. Yeah I have that exact problem, why trade two of the top prospects in the game for a dickey. Seriously though, we could’ve prolly got Gio last year with d’arnaud, syn, and gose. I mean i much rather have that happen then aquire a degrading assset.

  89. As a Mets fan I just want to give all of u a few positives about having RAD on your team(likely anyways)..

    He behaves like a true ace. His demeanor and intelligence for the game are beyond incredible. He will communicate what he sees/how he approaches with young pitchers and serve as a mentor of sorts. In the last 3 years he has literally been one of the best pitchers in baseball and since mastering the 80 mph knuckler, he’s reached ace status. He engages the fan base and is active in the community. There is no reason to believe he doesn’t have 3-5 quality years ahead based on the easy arm action and lack of stress involved in throwing the knuckle ball. Your team clearly becomes the FAVORITE to win the A.L. East.

    I say that all because as a dedicated fan I can understand that it is difficult to part with such high quality prospects. Noah is a few years away and d’Arnaud plays a position of strength for your organization. The Mets need Travis like fat kids need cake! The reality is, you’re in position to win RIGHT NOW and your GM is going for it. You’re line up and rotation both look fantastic and Dickey will be the exact glue u need to pull this all together and lead you guys back to the post season. This is the CY YOUNG winner, do not forget or minimize that. He’s a bonafide stud at this point and the type of guy that ends 4 game losing streaks.

    You guys are such an exciting and powerful team and with RAD and Reyes, I’ll be pulling for u over there in the AL. I think it’s a truly great trade for both parties at the end of the day and a total win/win. The Mets BADLY need the catcher/RH stick and high upside arm while you’ve obtained the ace you need to gear up for your run at the world series.

    Good luck Jays fans, I’ll be rooting for u. Well, sorta anyways lol

  90. Jays should at least consider Nick Swisher. They have a protected first round pick, so they’d lose there second round pick to the Yanks.

    Reyes-S
    Cabrera-S
    Bautista-R
    Edwin-R
    Swisher-S
    Lawrie-R
    Rasmus-L
    JPA-R
    Bonifacio-S

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