Hold the phone, what’s this? Mike Puma of the New York Post has some juicy details about the R.A. Dickey trade talks, and a deal that was “on the table” this morning, which… well, let’s just see what he’s saying before we go calling it nuts, OK?

Except… before that even, let’s all take a deep damn breath and think for a second about what “on the table” means.

No, I mean it. Think about what it means, please.

Ready?

Puma’s Post colleague Joel Sherman offers some much needed sense…

So… that’s crazy. But not necessarily in the “oh my fuck he can’t possibly do it” way, I don’t think. At least not until we hear some more names here– or until we get clarification as to whether “on the table” actually means something the Jays were seriously considering, or something the Mets floated and then got shot down.

It’s crazy because it’s huge, and because Syndergaard and d’Arnaud are such huge talents.

But so is Dickey, and if this really is something resembling the deal, I think we can expect that the player coming back from the Mets will go a long way towards evening it. And I think it’s reasonable to start thinking that the Jays might be looking for a big pre-arb arm who has options and can be slated for Buffalo– of which the Mets have a few.

Jon Niese is a name a bunch of people are throwing out there, but I just don’t see how it can possibly be a fit unless you’re moving someone like Ricky Romero– and while I very likely would take Niese over Romero, I highly, highly doubt that’s a thing the Jays are about to do.

Zack Wheeler and Matt Harvey could fit the bill, but they’re much too good for the Mets to be giving up along with Dickey, I suspect, meaning everybody is looking to someone like Jeurys Familia or Jenrry Mejia– a couple of hard-throwing 23-year-olds who might be best suited for the bullpen, thanks to a lack of secondary stuff, but who are still starters for now, and who have crazy power arms that surely must tantalize the Jays’ front office.

There’s certainly value in having someone at the Triple-A level, with so much of the Jays’ best minor league prospects so far away– and with the move out of Las Vegas possibly changing the development path, as the club no longer has to try to avoid sending their best arms to the PCL. Syndergaard is a fantastic arm, of course, but add one of those Mets pitchers and you actually have someone to call on, other than Chad Jenkins, Deck McGuire, Joel Carreno or making the big reach down to New Hampshire for Sean Nolin, in the event that a starter or two gets hurt– and also possibly to help bridge the gap to guys like Nolin, Aaron Sanchez, Robert Osuna, Matt Smoral and Dan Norris in the case that the club isn’t able to keep Josh Johnson around.

That said, expanding the deal to include Syndergaard isn’t going to do anything to make those losing their minds at the thought of giving up d’Arnaud feel any better, but so what? Their hissy fits at this juncture are just collateral damage in the Jays’ grand scheme of hoarding and lionizing prospects– thereby building a prospect-frothing fan base– then dealing from this massive pool of strength in order to improve the big league club in ways, and on a timeline, they’d have been incapable of doing otherwise. The club has shifted gears, acting like the Yankees and the Red Sox used to– with a supreme confidence that whatever gets depleted from the system will be built back, and that the pipeline is so strong as to be unshakable.

That’s not to say it doesn’t hurt to think of what maybe headed to New York, but the big league club is so ridiculously better for it in the near-term, and with at least Dickey (presumably), Buehrle, Romero and Morrow locked in for the next few years– and possibly Johnson before all is said and done, too– the necessity of holding a Syndergaard in the hopes that he can break through into their midst likely is lessened, given the fantastic short-term gain, and the host of other lottery ticket arms the Jays are still holding.

It’s horribly reductive to make blanket statements against a deal like this by pointing out that all prospects are unproven and the attrition rate is staggeringly high– you really need to look at each player you’re referring to on his own, I think– but it sure is funny to see so much consternation over these guys possibly being moved, so soon after the Jays got Brad Stinkin’ (see what I did there?) for Travis Snider– as stark a reminder of how hard prospect value can fall as we’ve seen around here in a long, long time. I’m certainly not saying Syndergaard and d’Arnaud will bust– I think there’s a good chance that they don’t– but this is by leaps and bounds a better return than the club got by holding onto their Great White Hope, and these prospects are certainly no more “can’t miss” than he was.

Not every prospect is destined to be Travis Snider, but at some point on all of them you have to roll the dice. Do you sell at what you think is the high point– say, offering David Wright for a half season of Jose Cruz Jr.? Or do you hold them tightly and refuse whatever ridiculous offer comes your way– like someone trying to pry your studs Jesse Foppert, Jerome Williams and Kurt Ainsworth away with some bum named Halladay.

You know?

Uh… I don’t know. R.A. Dickey!

(And maybe one of those other pitcher. Amazin Avenue’ has interesting posts on both Jeurys Familia and Jenrry Mejia, which you should probably go ahead and read).

 

Image via Simon Druker.

Comments (905)

  1. If we don’t get back Matt Harvey I’m flippin tables.

  2. Gulp!

  3. sherman’s right maybe a familia???? comes back with dickey + davis?

  4. Significant = Wheeler. Kthanks.

  5. Harvey or Niese and I wont be too upset

    Anything else could be robbery

    Not too keen on Duda, much prefer Ike the JewBear!

  6. Sherman provides some sense by using the all important “IF”

  7. It’d have to be Wheeler or Harvey, no?

  8. Better be Harvey or wheeler

  9. As much as I want to get angry about the idea of this I really can’t see it happening. If the Mets include one of their top prospects it would be possible but I feel like even that is unlikely.

  10. If expanding the deal was the compromise for relenting on D’Arnaud, expanding the deal would have to be for the benefit of the Jays, I think. Upgrading one of the Lansing Two to Wheeler or Harvey is basically the only possibility that fits that if Puma’s source is correct.

    • I agree.

      Wheeler is closer to MLB. He can step in for Johnson next year and be depth this year.

      Other players could be Wheeler/Harvey and Lind/Rajai.

      Makes the whole thing very palatable.

      • Wheeler’s 33 innings at AAA (with the Bisons) are in no way whatsoever closer to the majors than Harvey’s 59 major league innings, in which he matched Dickey’s 2.73 ERA. Don’t get me wrong though, I think that Dickey/Thole/either Harvey or Wheeler for d’Arnaud/Buck/Syndergaard/some other guy (Moises Sierra?) is probably a pretty good deal for Toronto.

        And as much as I’d love to have him off the books and add a better all-around hitter, Adam Lind is not going to the Mets. They already have a better defender/power bat at 1B in Ike Davis, who is also a lefty. That said, I’m sure that it any team could do so, only the Mets could subject themselves to a whole season of Adam Lind in LF, which hasn’t been his primary position since 2008. Rajai Davis would definitely be interesting, but I’m not sure he’s what the Mets are looking for (young and controllable or aging and John Buck).

        • Sorry.

          Meant Wheeler is closer to MLB than Syndergaard.

          Bridges the gap if Johnson isn’t extended.

          • Oh, okay then.

            Yeah, and I believe that’s where the Jays can win the trade in the long-term. Wheeler and Harvey may not (even then, that’s debatable) have the same ceiling as Syndergaard, but their floors are lower too. Either one, especially Harvey, would add the AAA-level (or with Harvey, possibly Villanueva-type) depth the team needs in the somewhat likely event that Johnson goes to the DL this year.

  11. Where’s Kenny Ken…. Him and JPM are the guys I trust.

  12. Who the fuck is Thole and don’t we want Davis also?

    • Thole is a bit worse than Arencibia and a shit lot better than Buck

    • Thole would be acquired to be the backup and Dickeys personal catcher. The latter is pretty damn important considering JPs reflexes are nothing to write home about.

      • Yes, and it’s not a bad idea. Greg Maddux, who of course wasn’t even a knuckleballer, had his own personal catcher (Charlie O’Brien) for years; the guy came along when Maddux was moved to a different team. I like it. With JPA or Buck back there the ump will have to wear extra protective equipment for every Dickey start.

  13. When will the madness end?!?

  14. Oh no, what will we ever do without our lottery pick prospect pitcher?

    • Nice attempt to be cynically mature, but I don’t think most are freaking out over losing the next Halladay, but rather wondering what the value exchange must be if a prospect with such stock as NS is also part of the deal.

      • I think some people need to stop pretending they know what the trade value is of a pitcher they’ve never even seen (or really that they even know anything about said pitcher).

        • I think we can get a pretty good idea of prospect value from the talent evaluators out there. They find their ways into front offices. So, we can have a reasonable idea of how front offices are valuing prospects.

          Recent deals also give us an idea of what similar prospects are worth. It’s obviously not the same for every team, but we’re not operating in a complete vacuum.

          Syndergaard is a flamethrower with improving secondaries. He is less valuable than a flamethrower with plus secondaries, but more valuable than one without any average/above average offerings.

          • My point, though, is that there is no objective standard of value with these kids. It’s subjective interpretation and perception built mostly from scouting reports that often differ.

      • Oh and that should have said “lottery ticket” not “lottery pick.” It was a failed attempt, indeed.

        • No, there’s no objective value. However, I trust AA’s subjective value. If he believes there’s more to be had from Dickey+, then I lean that way as well is what I’m getting at.

  15. TDA
    Snygen
    Buck
    Rajai

    Dickey
    Familia
    Thole
    Davis

    I know all

    • going out on a big limb here, but this might actually be a mutually risky flavor of fair:

      Dickey
      Thole
      Harvey

      for

      TDA
      Snydergaard
      Buck
      Ricky Romero
      $6M

      • I wouldn’t do it.

        You’re basically giving Romero away for nothing.

        • You’re giving up an increasingly expensive Ricky Romero away for a pre-arb bluechip pitching prospect with success in the majors in a SSS. I’d do it, but I doubt they would.

          • yep, nym wouldn’t do a harvey for romero straight-up trade — no reason to. BUT as a part of this deal, this makes sense. it might be the grease that nets them the top prospects they want. plus romero is a much more affordable replacement for dickey over roughly the same time period the extension would have covered, and is not without upside.

            if AA is concerned romero is not going to return to form, he could pull the trigger. romero is a former riccardi darling, and he’s slid from no. 1 to no. 5 since this time last year. maybe time for a fresh start.

  16. Puts the Jays as the best team in Baseball (on paper)?? But where is the depth in the minors if someone gets hurt?

    • Syndergaard was in low A last year. Him and Sanchez are nobody’s MLB depth in the minors until 2014 at the absolute earliest, more likely 2015 or 2016.

      • I was thinking more of what have they traded this winter that was “supposed” to start the season as depth. Hech, Marisnick, d’Arnaud. Yes they upgraded signifigantly but the positional player depth is nearly gone, in the high minors anyway. Gose and Sierra are outfield depth and Bonifacio (if you consider him a non starter), Cooper and Goins as infield depth.

        If the starting 9 or 10 players stay relatively healthy the Jays look fantastic but any long term injuries, specifically to Reyes, Lawrie or Benafacio would crush the depth on this team.

        This trade puts the Jays as #1 contenders for the next 2-3 years with the roster and Starters looking solidified for a few years. Now AA can restock the farm to make this team sustainable.

    • Just win, baby! – Al Davis

    • The minor league help really made a difference last year.

      • The only help the minor leaguers made last year was they allowed us to field 9 players! none of the call-ups made an impact other than a few good plays.

  17. I need some information on Wheeler, Harvey and Thole

    • HINT: One of the names doesn’t belong. At all.

    • #3 ceiling, #2 ceiling, #3 catcher (or knuckleballer catcher.)

    • By looking at Thole I’d say he’s a defensive catcher. Okay average and it seems like he has no power.

      • Thole has caught Dickey and that’s something to keep in mind. JP isn’t very good defensivly and then you ask him to catch a KNuckleball disaster.

        • Yeah you’d think we would have all realised earlier that with TDA being traded there would have to be a catcher incl cuz there’s no fuckin way Arencibia’s catching a knuckleball.

          Considering Buck as the piece of shit he is.

          • Thole would be an upgrade probably on Mathis, Wilsom, and Whiteside – has caught Dickey knucklers – and is locked up a lot longer term

            Plus AA has a fetish for backstops!

        • so what you’re saying is make JPA linds other half?

        • Excellent point. I’ve been worrying about the kind of mess JPA might make catching Dickey.

          Just out of interest, did Wakefield have a personal catcher

      • Thole is not a good defensive catcher.

        He was drafted as a first baseman, and the Mets converted him to catcher because he didn’t hit for enough power to be considered a good prospect at 1st..

        Throughout the minors, he was always a good contact hitter and showed good ability to get on base. He did have some promise at the plate, but after two years of mediocre production the Mets have given up on him. He also has suffered a concussion last season which effected his overall performance.

    • Look it the fuck up. It’s called google

    • Scoutingbook.com has Zack Wheeler as the #21 prospect in MLB. By comparison, d’Arnaud is #14, and Syndergaard is #37.

      Matt Harvey has had some experience playing for the Mets last year, and is, therefore, no longer ranked as a prospect. He did well at the top level, though. His stats with NYM last year are as follows:

      W-L 3-5, ERA 2.73, G 10, IP 59.1, SO 70. fangraphs.com has his FIP at 3.30 and xFIP at 3.49 for 2012.

  18. this is getting really scarey really fucking fast. holy mother of slutcakes

  19. I can’t even handle twitter anymore. The amount of “think they know it alls” is beyond hilarious. You have 20 year olds trying to tell the world AA is getting fleeced etc….such a joke haha. Fucking live with the trade and root for your team, go Jays!

    • Fucking A man I agree. Fuck these retards on twitter.

      • More irritated by the idiots saying stuff like Jays should trade Hech or let McGowan start – like they’ve been under a rock for months

  20. Bad Luck Buck. Convinces his Marlins teammates Toronto is a great place to play, then is traded almost immediately.

  21. We really need to calm the fuck down until this is finalized, I think.

    I mean, if TDA is a little too much for Dickey but Alderson really wanted him, then maybe adding Syndegaard and Wheeler makes it closer to “balanced” in AAs mind.

    Or maybe Lind and Ike Davis need to be added for it to be balanced.

    Who knows until it is final.

  22. if thats what the jays are giving up, I want david wright. move lawrie to second

  23. No idea how credible this guy is but I’ll throw it out there:

    Dave Phillips ‏@davephillips41 @cvelardi Hearing Dickey Thole & a Class A minor leaguer going to Jays for D’Arnaud, Buck and two high end 20-year old minor league pitchers

  24. I’m liking this deal less and less as all these damn reports come out. Most NY sportswriters like to conjure up random rumours too though. Where is Marty York when you need him?

  25. We need better than Familla guy is a reliever.

  26. i’ve always wondered how negotiations take place when guys names are just thrown out there………you’d have to have encyclopedic knowledge of the other team’s entire roster in order to engage and negotiate. ????

    • You put together a file on each team/player and have a book labeled Mets and take it out and look at each of the guys in the file. Just have to do that and keep it updated.

    • That’s what scouts are for ;)

      • well, thats what i wonder. its OK to a “book” on people, but i wonder if there’s a name thrown out there and then AA has to get on the horn ?? Does he have a person/team of people he can call and defer to for intimate details on said person ? does he need to back away from negotiations temporarily while he makes that call ???

        • “Does he have a person/team of people he can call and defer to for intimate details on said person?”

          Those are called “scouts.”

    • That’s why it is taking so long. They probably have to look at each name tossed out there that’s maybe beyond what they were expecting.

  27. Matt harvey is good as wheeler?

    • Put up 1.6 WAR in limited time last year.

      Not sure who to compare him to really, but his play last year kind of reminded me of when Alvarez had his first cup of mlb coffee, turned in a better sample size then people expected and gave the idea that he could be a future #2

      From all accounts that I’ve heard he’s a #3 at the moment, kinda like Alvarez, but who knows. Henderson really struggled after his initial success.

      • Different style of pitcher of course

        • Way too early to judge either but Harvey is a strikeout machine with a more extensive repetoire. That 98mph heater doesn’t hurt either but I wouldn’t be jettisoning Alvarez or anything.

    • Yes.

      They were basically interchangeable at 1 & 2 on Mets prospect lists last year.

    • If Alverez had an out pitch. Harvey Ks all day long.

  28. This guy writes for the Star-Ledger (7,800 followers fwiw)

    @McCulloughSL

    Because I guess this was unclear: The Mets wouldn’t get BOTH Syndergaard and Sanchez back. Just one. If at all.

  29. The jays are crazy if they give up TdA and Syndergard !

    • AA is stingy with his assets, until I know for certain what the trade is, I have faith that he’s going to make the right move.

    • If Dickey signs an extension, which in a trade is likely, and the Jays are able to resign JJ, Syndergaard would be blocked basically for the next 3 years, Romero (assuming he doesn’t completely suck) and Morrow are here long term, and Buerhle has 3 years on his deal, and Hutchinson and possibly Drabek will be back and fighting for a spot, not a lot of room in the rotation over the next 3 years.

  30. I take Wheeler and run like a goddam thief.

  31. AA must love the Met’s front office leaking like a sieve. The way the media in NY is trashing Dickey makes me think this deal won’t be the treasure haul for the Mets that we’re being led to believe.

    • If you’re saying what I think you are — that trashing Dickey is a means to temper Mets fans’ expectations of a huge return for him, I 100% agree.

  32. Would Harvey or Wheeler be upgrades over Syndergaard. I know they are closer to the bigs, but it doesn’t mean they have more upside.

  33. Well so much for having a future. Trading the entire farm for a fucking 38 year old pitcher.

    AA is not a fucking ninja. He’s Omar Minaya.

    • Because this is a confirmed deal, yes. Indeed.

      • Sure we’re not getting Bartolo Colon back?

        • The Colon deal is one example out of many where all of the prospects turned out. What’s the point in cherry-picking it. What about the Halladay deal? What about Latos, or Gonzalez, or Lee?

    • Fuck off jesuscristo.

    • Giving up the whole farm? Giving up a couple great prospects, yeah, but the Jays have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball. Fangraphs had their top 15 with a note that another 12+ were in contention. It’s why he built up a huge inventory of young talent.

  34. I find it strange you guys think that one of the guys coming back would be Harvey or Wheeler, wouldn’t that defeat the purpose for the Mets? Give up a good young pitcher to get one? I think it would be more likely they would trade from a position of strength. Like flipping one of their 2b or 3b prospects.

    • I’d love if it was one of those two but I think a more realistic guy would be Wilmer Flores.

      • Wilmer Flores has less than 300 PAs above A-ball, doesn’t have a position, is blocked at the ML level at any of his obvious positions, takes up a 40-man roster spot, and is already burning his 2nd option year in 2013. I don’t like him that much for the Jays.

        • He seems more plausible then one of their super arms. I’d love it if we got Harvey or Wheeler but it makes no sense to aquire a top prospect arm and give up one in the same deal.

          According to his scouting report at Baseball America Flores should be ML ready this fall. I think his bat would play quite well at 2b.

    • I think the logic is that if they are getting d’Arnaud then AA wants to trade his stud prospects for stud prospect closer to the bigs.

      • This.

        And young pitching is a position of strength for the Mets.

        Harvey, Wheeler, Familia. Even Dillon Gee.

        • Yes but Harvey and Gee are curently in their starting 5.
          Subtracting Dickey and Harvey would leave their rotation a great big Oprah sized hole.

        • I most definitely think it would have to be better than Familla. The Guy is going to be a reliever.

    • This could be the price for including d’Arnaud though. It depends on a lot of things. Top prospects are flipped for other prospects all the time. (Brett Wallace for Anthony Gose)

    • Yeah, makes sense. Hope you guys are right, those 2 guys look like they could be great for many years.

  35. I hope we can all agree that the upside of this trade is undoubtedly all the traffic Stoeten and DJF are getting.

    But if we don’t get Wheeler or Harvey I’m gonna start breaking shit

  36. Lots of Mets fan can’t even fathom Wheeler being in the package. Said to be one of the best pitching prospects for them in a loonngg time.

    My best guess is that it would have to be a decent, young arm. So in that case, it would likely be Harvey. Great pickup either way IMO.

    • but does AA see more value in Harvey than Syndergaard? Also over the last few weeks most Jays fans dreaded at the thought of parting with d’Arnaud, including myself.

      • trading prospect with a 2-3 year projected impact vs. a prospect who could produce this year or next is not a bad move in my mind

        still aligns with the win-now mentality – kind of like acquiring Rasmus, he was still raw, but he had enough mlb experience that you weren’t getting a complete mystery – you knew what his potential could be and what his worst was and anything in between is still good enough on a contending team

        i dont think AA wants to simply do 1:1 for the hell of it, doesnt move forward – he’s not gonna trade Synder for a guy in the same timeline as Synder unless it’s a better prospect or it’s a guy AA has a massive liking for

      • Harvey would be much more important to the Bluejays this year. if there’s an injury to one of the starting rotation he could immediately step into that role, Sydergaard is unable to do that, and the Mets aren’t competing for anything this year anyways so pushing their pitching prospect back 2 years doesn’t really hurt them at all.

        I think basically swapping Harvey for Syder would be a fabulous move for the Blue Jays in looking to compete now.

  37. How dare the Jays try and win now?!

    • I know! After 20 years of hearing complaints, the team nearly moving…it’s fucking bullshit.

    • Trying to “win now” almost never works in the MLB these days.

      Ask the Tigers, Angels, Marlins or even Dodgers about last year.

      • @jaysfan. Yes, thank-you for your insight-fullness. I guess we should go the way of the Baltimore’s and put together a mash of 23 shitty players with one or two good ones and see what happens. 1 out of 50 season’s you may make the playoffs.

      • Tigers didn’t win, I guess, but 2 WS in a row is impressive. Good chance of play-offs in 2013.

  38. Harvey would be awesome pickup simply for the fact that Rogers could run a Harvey’s promotion and give free burgers or something – maybe if he gets 9 k’s or more in a game everyone gets a free Harvey’s burger?

  39. Remember when Drabek was supposed to be awesome.

  40. I wonder if they are still working things out at this very minute, or if it has been agreed to. It would be brutal if things fell apart, if only because I’ve spent the last 24 hours on internet alert.

    • lol…ya. can you imagine the crash everyone will take. There will be a run on burritos and jager!

  41. That deal fucking blows

  42. wow, maybe i was wrong. if the jays get more than dickey (maybe without trading syndergaard), then that would be alright with me.

  43. where did GingerCampbell go?

  44. Adam Rubin (ESPN New York) going on TSN 1050 right now, fyi

  45. Thole makes a lot of sense, catching knuckleballers is an art in itself. (Remember Varitek, his inability pretty much kept Mirabelli in the bigs). I kind of liked having Buck with zero expectations, I had a feeling he was going to find his stroke again but he and Arencibia are pretty much the same bat.

    • also Buck knew Buehrle and Johnson well. But I can’t see JP catching Dickey, so thole makes sense.

      • Agreed. I didn’t want to say it because as it’s become evident that JP is going to be here for years I vowed to quit saying anything negative about him. Making JP try to catch Dickey would probably qualify as cruel and unusual.

  46. That’s it, i’m not for this trade, TDA+syndergaard? for dickey and his catcher? Just sign a free agent and screw the additional 1 or 2 war

    • reports have said that if Syndergaard is included in the deal a significant prospect/player is coming back. put some faith in AA.

  47. jp arencibia ‏@jparencibia9
    Just involved in a huge trade… Traded 4 blue M&M’s and a color to be named, for a Purple G2 Gatorade and cash for a snicker bar! #Rumors

    • I wouldn’t be surprised if half the trolls on these threads are JP

      • LOL thats actually funny from JPA

        JP would have to be bored as hell to troll DJF all day long

    • JPA is a fucking tool & a douche.

    • It is tweets like these that make me want to see JP get dealt. Smug mother fucker.

      Just shut up and stay off twitter man, does he know he doesn’t HAVE to reply?

      • So the guy’s got a sense of humour. Can’t blame him for fending off the hoards of trolls now and then. Throughout this whole ordeal with the trade possibilities, commenters here have had very little good to say about him in terms of his baseball abilities, etc. It’s fair to do that with objectivity (looking at the stats).

        I don’t see that it’s necessary to also get out the pitch forks and torches and run him out of town attacking his character too!

        • I mean it’s fair to objectively criticize his performance as a ball player, given the two years he has been here. Who knows, though, maybe this year some upside will leak through and he’ll raise his OBP.

    • not gonna lie, Arencibia’s kinda awesome

    • I’m not fond of JPA at all especially his posts on Twitter

  48. Question: When R.A. joins J.A. in T.O., does he pronounce his name “Ray”?

  49. I have been travelling all day and I’m not thrilled about the latest rumours.

    Shermans tweet sounds about right though. Sending syndergaard? Better be getting a top prospect back!

    Like, the fuck?

  50. All in with pocket Aces. Fux with that.

  51. I’ve always wanted a knuckler

  52. wonder if we could get Masterson for D’Arnaud? better or worse than Dickey?

  53. Dickey/Thole/Harvey for TDA/Buck/Buehrle/Syndergaard+Cash.

    I’d go for that.

    • why trade buerle? I thought its the SPs the jays need

      • and buerle is reliable brings experience

      • Because Buehrle is going to cost the fucking Jays almost 40 million between 2014 and 2015. He is going to seriously hamstring the Jays’ ability to extend both Dickey and Johnson. Harvey is cost-controlled.

        Sure he may not be as reliable as Buehrle, but fuck, that arm has to give sometime doesn’t it? Buehrle will get exposed in the AL East.

        Dickey/Johnson/Morrow/Harvey/Romero with Happ as a swingman (Jenkins waiting in the wings) is a good start.

    • minus buehrle would be a realistic deal imo

    • Yes sir.

      I would take that in a second.

  54. Got a question for yall, is it certain that Dickey would sign an ext. w/ bluejays?

    • No way they do do the deal with TDA if no extension.

      Unless of course Wheeler or Harvey are in cuz if they are, who gives a flying fuck

    • it seems like a given, yeah. only question is whether we can get him for a bit less than 2/$26 but that’s not a bad deal anyway

  55. It’s 9.30pm where I am. Time to crack open the hard liqour, it’s goin to be a long and probably unsatisfying night

  56. I find the radio silence from the major national writers a bit disconcerting. It’s completely possible (maybe even likely) the the NY writers have better local sources, but it’s also completely possible that JPR is leaking streams of steaming bullshit just because he likes that kind of shit.

    in the end, providing AA doesn’t get completely jobbed, it will be great to have Dickey in the rotation. Going from Romero as the ace to Romero as the potential #5 in one offseason is just fucking fantastic on AA’s part. 2013 could be THE YEAR.

  57. Say no to RA Dickey! DO NOT trade if asking too much!

  58. Some people need to wait until the trade details come out before jumping off a bridge.

  59. Hey at least Jason Bay can’t be in this trade!

    Every cloud…

  60. NO TDA!

  61. I have a feeling the “Dickey is old, keep the precious prospects!” group also belongs to the “Is the deal done yet?!?!” group.

    • Hopefully resolved soon,,,, for me its not the old thing, it’s more about knowing in the back of your mind that being consistently competitive after a 3ish year window would be hard to keep up after trading away top prospects. Nothing has happened yet, so whatever, time will tel.

  62. Let the ny media Dickey bashing commence. Here’s some context: mlb.sbnation.com/2012/12/15/3768600/the-many-crimes-of-r-a-dickey-against-the-new-york-mets

    Dickey really seems like an AA kinda guy

  63. Hey at least someone’s getting with the program! @JoeyBats19 “@jparencibia9 i want the red m&m’s so make sure you send them to my locker! #SeeYouLaterJP”

    • Jose wants red because he sees the blood of the AL east on his team’s hands this year!

  64. Jays fans don’t make any sense.

    “Trade Buehrle while we can!”

    “Dickey is old and bad”

    “AA fucking blew it”

    For fucks sake. Rogers is willing to sustain a big payroll. Buehrle might be overpaid, but he is still good, and they more than make up for his extra dollars with 3 or 4 other contracts on the team, including Dickey if the trade goes through. And we don’t even know what the trade is, and people are asking for AA’s head. People are turning a dream off season into a nightmare.

    • AA is turning a dream offseason into a nightmare. He saw Dayton Moore’s fuck-up and thought, “ME TOO!”

      • Shutup you fucking retard.

        • y u mad?

        • Rogers is willing to sustain a big payroll…

          Just because they are going to have ONE YEAR with a large payroll means they are sustaining it? What if attendance sucks next year and AA gets the order to cut salary? Lets see a few years of 120+ million before saying they are willing to sustain it, shall we?

          • Attendance was up last year with a losing team and no faith in the Rogers ownership group, how in the hell do you think it will be down next year? If you haven’t noticed the Jays have gotten MUCH better, are in talks to land the NL Cy young winner, have a new coaching staff and added marketable players like Reyes, Melky and EE has a new popularity. Barring the economic apocalypse there is NO way the attendance is going down.

          • Lots of assumptions being made there Thole.

            Shit can hit the fan… Don’t think many people could have foreseen what happened last year.

          • And your “What If” scenario isn’t an assumption? Why you are considered a troll is the absurd comparison between AA and Dayton Moore. Your different opinion is hilarious. What do you have against trading away a top prospect for the NL cy winner? If Syndergaard is included there will have to be more included in this trade. If it isn’t who cares. The low minors is chalk full of potential and Syndergaard style has a question mark in his developing breaking ball. We are trading a low AA high risk stud with a great prospect for not only Major league talent but a guy who was incredible last year and very very good two years before that. and potentially more with what has been said.

          • *still

          • low A,

          • *chock full of… not chalk full of.

          • @GSMC thank you. Chock.

      • @jesuscristo You are such a fucking troll

        • If anyone has a differing opinion on this website, they are a fucking troll… nice.

          All I’ve said since the news broke about this trade is that I don’t believe the Jays will realistically be able to hold onto Buehrle, Johnson and Dickey after 2013. Dickey will be the easiest to extend, as Johnson will probably command more years and a higher AAV.

          If you fail to extend either Johnson or Dickey, both trades are going to look like shit. This is, of course, assuming that TDA is included in any trade for Dickey.

          • I dunno if the Markins trade looks too bad without a Johnson extension.

            Still have Reyes, Buehrle and Bonifacio… Albeit at high AAVs for 2 of them. Plus you get a pick back for Johnson.

            Realistically what you gave up for them was Hech, Nicolino, Alvarez, Marisnick and Escobar. Do you get 1 superstar and 2 above average guys out of this? Maybe.

            Debatable whether that’s an overpay in my opinion.

    • @jimmy.

      Agreed. For the first time in 20 years the Jays are relevant ( except 2005 mini splurge).

      The team is a world series contender with Dickey.

      People are now complaining about losing some prospects that they have never seen play??

      • I’d like to state that I watched at least 60 of TdA’s 69 games this year and saw Syndergaard once (which is the same amount of full games I saw Dickey as well). Not making a point other than I like to comment on Oakville69′s comments mostly because I think you are an idiot.

  65. I see that the jays and mets are having trouble getting a deal done. Let me offer my assistance. I have 20 years experience facilitating these types of transactions.

  66. once again wilner on twitter doing his condescending I am so smart you are so dumb routine to fans: “baffing how fans are so upset…”

    • why the WIlner hate? sure he can be a prick, but it’s funny listening to him interact with some of the callers on his show

      • Fuck wilner that arrogant douchebag son of a bitch

        • @Ron.

          The problem with Wilner is if the trade was going the other way, & the Jays were acquiring prospects, I know he would be bashing fans that wanted to keep Dickey.

          Wilner is a very recent convert to valuing MLB all stars over prospects.

      • Wilner is a mudflap

    • Wilner is a piece of shit.

      • Wilner is the fly that eats the piece of shit.
        No!…he’s the shit that the fly shits after eating the piece of shit.

    • He’s more connected than anyone around here. Big deal. And he calls out morons. Who cares.

  67. This trade will not happen, bad news bears for yoooooou!

  68. Another team in on things? A last minute suitor? I keep hearing this shit from ESPN and people are quietly talking Dickey to Boston. WTF is going on? Is there a turd in the punch bowl?

  69. RA (y) Dickey
    JA (y) Happ
    Johnson (Josh)

    This retro commercial has it all:

    You can call me Ray . . . .but you doesn’t have to call me Johnson

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LztZu5s0-QU

  70. After the deal goes through, and AA holds his presser, someone is going to ask whether Gose was ever part of the deal. I guarantee AA will say yes, but they were reluctant to part with Gose, because of how valuable he is, his “tools”, blah blah blah. That’s how you’d expect any GM to handle a question like that. Pretty sure the reality was that the Mets wanted nothing to do with a future strikeout champion, and the Jays were simply hoping Alderson was caught up in the Gose hype and he would take the bait.

  71. RA and JPA both Tennessee Volunteers alum – go Orange

  72. it’s now 5pm day 2. If this supposed deal is done then wtf. If we don’t here official in the next few hours then I say there is no deal. I can’t wait to hear alex’s next interview wtf this was all about.

  73. I can’t wait to hear mike puma’s next article “deal is off the table, mets didn’t like darnaud’s medicals”

  74. Romero tells JPA to grow some balls:

    Ricky Romero ‏@RickyRo24
    @JoeyBats19 @jparencibia9 Damn son get over the trade rumors. We already know u ain’t going anywhere ur #TheUntouchable Haha.

  75. Did AA and Stoeten go grab a burrito together? All’s quiet on the Western front . . .

  76. Matt Harvey would make sense since Toronto is infatuated with players from southeastern Connecticut…..Paul Menhart, Pete Walker, John McDonald, Rajai Davis.

  77. Whoever upthread said there were no tweets from national reporters is right. Nothing from the big boys for hours. I hope that deal is still going through…

  78. If this trade isn’t finalized tonight I’m gonna go out to 20th street and fight 6 indians.

  79. I take it you from S’toon ,KelvimEscobar?

  80. i just dont know anymore….everyone needs to remember this is the same AA that made that HORRIBLE deal for JA Happ. Sometimes he makes mistakes. Just dont kill yourself over it.

    • How was it horrible. What have the guys he sent to Houston done? Anything? That’s what I thought.

    • dumdumdumdumdum

    • The deal for Happ was good.. Happ looked fine last year and none of the prospects look too promising at this point.

      • omg are you kidding me? regardless of what they became, we gave away a 1st rounder and much more for JA HAPP??? You guys and your AA dickriding will never end

        • you two have GOT to be fucking kidding me. Turned a bunch of HIGH A spare parts into two MLB players… fack off

      • I like AA moves but that Happ trade was bad. There was no reason to even do it.

        • Stop talking Thatguy…you are clearly just a drone. That deal was terrible on so many fronts. Even a 10 year old could get more for what we gave up.

  81. If Yankees or Red Sox were making moves like this, people would be losing their shit yelling why AA didn’t do anything. Can’t win sometimes.

  82. I can’t see the Mets giving us one of their two pitching prospects, who are so close to the majors, for a high upside guy who hasn’t pitched above single A.

  83. So the rotation with dickey wouldn’t have RR in it?

  84. Gonna try and name as many catchers as possible that AA has signed or dealt for over the past few years…..

    Olivo
    Mathis
    Buck
    Whiteside
    Wilson
    Thole
    Napoli
    D’Arnaud
    Torrealba

    Did I miss anyone?

  85. Face it with AA really all rumors have to be taken with a grain of salt. The only guy we can be certain is in the deal is RA. Even TDA might not be involved. AA is the master at keeping a deal quiet and you know he would have let Alderson know that any leaks would threaten their deal

  86. Fuck the NY media/Mets, I prefer to have deals just magically appear so we can all just marvel in the ninja’s abilities and celebrate without spending hours refreshing Twitter…

  87. This looks like it’s going to be the biggest hoax in mlb history. If this was any other team than the mets with JPR you might believe it. JPR has more leaks than the titanic. Alex has said numerous times that deals fall apart becaus of leaks.

  88. OK, I’m sitting in Pearson International…waiting to board to Heathrow Airport….and this crapola airport takes fucking hours to connect to….and I’m going out of mind waiting for shit to happen. Can we get to the meat and potatoes here….I board in an hour!

    • Humblebrag about going to UK.

      • HAHA +1

      • bullshit…just sayin’ that I’m going to be out of touch for 10 fucking hours, and my only lifeline to the jays is you fuckwits.

        • It’s not gonna take you 10 hours to Heathrow. 6 30 max. And look on the bright side, the weather is nasty and you might get delayed.

          • ok, we’re splitting hairs now. Just sayin’…trying to get the scoop before I have to turn off all electronic devices so my fucking iPod doesn’t crash a sophisticated piece of machinery like a 777.

        • Hope you get seated next to a hot chick who likes to talk baseball. Have a good flight!

  89. crapola airport WIFI, I mean.

  90. Man I cant wait for the Jays to play the Angels and have Dickey pounding Trout and Johnson stuffing it to Pujols. lol…. that joke had to be made sorry. Perhaps another? Apparently word of Dickey’s coming is due to some loose lips…. (im here all night)

    Now… onto pressing business. Syndergaard…. yowsers… this may be getting a wee bit off the rails here.

    I am probably like a lot of you out there in that I dont know anything about the Mets farm system because in all honesty it’s the mets and from the day I was born Ive given zero fuck about that franchise apart from maybe bringing HoJo or Gooden out into one of our wiffle ball games as kids. So like many of you I am going to right now check on the mets prospects…. be right back….

    (hold music, preferably some god awful Pat Matheny style elevator jazz)

    Alright… so Im back.. and here’s what I would like to see back in this deal.

    1. RA Dickey – obviously. But I want to see him immediately signed to a 2 year extension worth no more than 26 million dollars and then perhaps a team option for a 3rd year.

    2. Bobby Parnell – throws rockets, misses bats and according to baseball reference he is signed cheap long term. This guy to me is a MUST in this deal. The Jays need a guy to help lock down the pen and Parnell is the guy I would almost guarantee that AA is looking at. Especially if Syndergaard is involved here.

    3. A prospect – now forgive me here but again I am only just learning of some of these players but I think Wheeler would be great though probably unattainable so Ill say Harvey or Familia. However I am not sure either of these fellas will be on the table as they seem to be valuable parts of this Mets rebuild… not sure what to add here.

    I dont see the need at all to require a catcher in return here, especially Thole because whoever they obtain would surely be headed to Buffalo immediately, does Thole have options left to be sent to AAA? if not then surely he would be claimed so it would make more sense to just sign a reasonable free agent catcher to a minor league deal and invite to spring training over asking the Mets to include a catcher from their system.

    • Parnell would be great, I said that before as well. They want Thole because he has experience catching the knuckler.

  91. When is fucking trade going to actually happen?

  92. i have a icky feeling about this trade

    I mean darnaud and syndergaard is the beginning of a trade for david price or felix hernandez.

    sure those guys aren’t on the table as of now, but a deal like that almost certainly perks ears.

    • We also dont know what will come back for prospects. There is absolutely NO WAY that Syndergaard and Darnaud are both going to the Mets for dickey and spare parts, give AA more credit than that. You can expect young pitching and probably Parnell (elite reliever) in return which to me is worth it.

      • doesnt make much sense.

        a trade involving syndergaard , for lets say harvey. its a wash.

        so if we are including syndergaard it almost certainly wont be to get back harvey

        • Not really.

          Harvey or Wheeler could step in for Johnson next year. Syndergaard is like melt another year or so away.

          Similar talent but Harvey and Wheeler are depth now for the big club.

    • another reason i dont like this is that with drabek and hutch coming back mid season, + our prospect pool, jays pitching depth far exceeds position player depth.

      no reason to overpay now.

  93. Stoeten I can’t believe how hard you’re trying to rationalize giving up TDA and Noah. I’m fine with shipping out d’Arnaud for Dickey but no way should one of our elite pitching prospects be included.

    • He says with no fucking idea of what the return would be…

    • Fuck Josh are you ever dumb

      • Initially we thought dickey might be had for jp and rasmus/gose which would have been great. Having to trade d’Arnaud sucks but dickey is probably worth it. The mets really lack any other players that would make including Noah necessary. Davis suffers from the same problems as Lind, their other positional players are hardly enticing. Wheeler and Harvey project similar to Noah and are both ready, they won’t be included. d’Arnaud should be more than enough to get Dickey, if they insist on Noah I’d be walking away.

  94. Dickey won’t come without his personal catcher, so Buck goes too. Fuck, we get stuuck with JPA

  95. Dickey will most likely be traded to Jays WITHOUT an extension in place according to both Rosenthal and Shi Davidi. That makes the deal a lot more risky for the Jays imo. The Mets better be giving up something very good on top of Dickey if that’s true.

    • Neither have tweeted in three hours. Stop spouting bullshit fuckboy.

      • They both just said that on interviews on Sportsnet’s Sportsdesk. Grow up with the cheap, unwarranted attacks kid.

        • I think (hope) Dickey would be an easy guy to sign though. Although I’m not sure why the condition of Dickey signing first wouldn’t be included.

          I too have weird feelings about this trade, I kind of hope it is nothing like everyone has speculated, but we will find out soon enough.

  96. Apparently the deal is now dead so all you losers crying about d’Arnaud can continue sucking his dick.

    • You have no source here, just because there hasnt been any updates on MLBTR doesnt mean shit. Either the Jays office told the Mets to tighten the lips or the writers are just out of speculations and bullshit to post on their twitters.

      The deal is still on.

    • Have you read that “CharlieBurkNYC” feed? He’s hilarious! He has 345 followers and “many insider friends”.. He also followed up his announcement of the dead deal with:

      “@martinonydn ill smoke you out bro how mucu you tryna pay for an eighth?”

      Yes!

  97. I love how all of you retards are giving up on JPA. What a bunch of horse shit. Were talking about all the same people that were gobbling massive PILES of his knob when he was wrecking shit in the minors and then when he first came up. Now youre all turning on him for what? A kid that put up better numbers IN THE MINORS and hasnt taken a major league at bat? What a load of crap.

    Seriously,,, can any of you people be fucking positive here? Maybe look at the fact that there’s a contact oriented hitting coach coming into the fold this year that will likely work with all the blue jays hitters to increase OPS and OBP. Can we also look at the vastly improved lineup around guys like JPA and Lind that will ensure they get more to hit. Not to mention with Mottola these guys wont be looking dead red on the inner 3rd of the plate at all times, theyll be looking all over the field.

    We all know JPA has potential and holy fuck the guy is coming into what his 3rd fucking year in the big leagues, thus meaning he has a lot of time and room to grow as a hitter and a catcher.

    Wah wah wah wah all the fucking time. NEWSFLASH not every god damn trade is going to be something for nothing. Why not count the blessings that once upon a time the Jays got Brett Lawrie for Marcum and then absolutely raped and conquered the Marlins, AA also got rid of Wells contract and so on and so on.

    I am sorry but when the biggest problem on the team is a young power hitting catcher with poor OBP,,,, I really think life is pretty fucking good, wouldnt you guys?

    • No, JP is pure garbage and can’t get on base too save his life and has piss poor defence. He blows.

      • Under Dwayne Murphy, sure. But whats to say he doesnt bring a more contact oriented approach this year? Who’s to say his defense doesnt improve? Surely the Jays organization knows this and will help him during spring training.

        Point is,,, there are far worse problems to have.

        • lol oh please.

          do you honestly believe that murphy is the reason that JPA isn’t that good? you’ve got to be shitting me

          yes the jays feel that with the absence of murphy that jpa will break out with 100 BB. fuck sakes u people

      • And I agree, I have no problem having JPA as the opening day catcher. His defense is getting better, and hopefully his bat will improve and he will start taking walks. An improved batting order should help this cause.

        Is he the greatest catcher? No. But having an elite catcher is one of the rarest things to have in baseball. He is better than Mathis or Buck as a starter in my opinion, and if we were to ditch him and didn’t have d’Arnaud, it would be a bitch to find another starting catcher (look at the contract Martin just signed).

      • I’ll take 20-30HR out of the 7,8,9 slots any day of the week. He doesn’t need to get on base, he’s there to inflict damage. OBP guys bat in the 1-3 and the Jays have multiple options there.

    • I don’t remember ever gobbling massive piles of JP’s knob. Maybe I was roofied? That bastard. Another reason for me to hate him.

    • Not everyone is enamoured with JPA and there good reason. He is not the guy you want with an all-star caliber starting rotation. Appears Dickey will bring his own catcher with him in the trade. Morrow also prefers tossing to someone other than JPA. Spend your time arguing with Kelvim

  98. Unlike The Trade, this trade has brought more assholes than ever to DJF.

  99. Forget Moneyball, Hollywood is already planning a movie called Knuckleball, the storied life of MLB pitcher R.A. Dickey, starring Jeff Bridges

    http://pleasurephoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/jeff-bridges-by-marco-grob.jpg

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