Welcome to your Sunday afternoon Dickey watch / a liveblog of my family Christmas, live from beautiful Saugeen Shores, Ontario. Home of Ontario’s finest sunsets. There’s a chance that the Jays will end this afternoon with the reigning Cy Young winner on their roster, and a near guarantee that I’ll end this afternoon with Egg Nog in my digestive system.

Dickey Update: Looks like most of the updates today are going to be updates about how there aren’t any updates, but if you’re into reading between the lines it appears that this trade is making a transition from NY media style where every offer and detail is leaked immediately, to TO media style where nobody tells you anything until it’s done.

Family Christmas Update: I have arrived at my Mom`s house. A lot of my Aunts and Uncles are here already and I have been reminded that I`ve lost quite a bit of hair in the last 12 months. Great start to the Sunday, guys.

If you haven’t checked Fangraphs today (why are you reading about baseball on the internet if you aren’t checking fangraphs, nerd?) and need to be calmed down a little bit due to the package coming back and everyone asking you how this trade is different from the Royals overpaying for Shields, the great David Cameron has two articles up about it. First about debunking Dickey as a one-year wonder, and a second that is a reassuring opinion that this is the best possible time for the Jays to be going for it. Both make for good reading and should simmer your nerves a little.

Family Christmas Update: We have those plastic champagne glasses that your office buys at the dollar store when you have to work on New Years Eve, except ours are full of salsa. I’m digging it.

  Oh, cool Joel Sherman. That’s fine. I don’t have anything important to do anyway. I’m going to keep telling my family that this is important so I don’t have to field questions about being single. (Those two things aren’t related at all, are they?)

Family Christmas Update: We have our first sighting of a significant other making their inagural “Meet the family” visit, in the form of my cousin Jessica’s new boyfriend Jeff. Jeff is in over his head. Just keep your head down and don’t get in between me and the shrimp ring, rookie.

  Don’t fool yourselves, guys. If we trade d’Arnaud his leg is going to explode like Buck Martinez blocking home plate to turn a double play. And JPA is going to raise his OBP by like 75 points.

Family Christmas Update: I have been discovered by my fellow cousins in the upstairs rec room. Football and small talk. I bribed my niece with candy to go downstairs and score me more shrimp. Keep your eyes on me if you want to learn, Jeff.

 

Don’t twist “Good trade for the Mets” to mean “Bad trade for the Jays”, but if you think about how high we all have been on d’Arnaud and Syndergaard since we learned to spell their names you can understand why the general consensus is that the Mets are doing well to get maximum value on their incredibly low-risk investment of bringing in Dickey in the first place. You could do a lot worse for a guy you’ve only paid $5 million a year.

Family Christmas Update: My brother-in-law is selling his car. It’s a 2006 Honda Civic SI. 117,000 km, manual transmission, never in an accident. If you’re in the KW area you should check it out.

 

OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY

YOU GUYS!!!

Family Christmas Update: Smorgasbord style lunch. The turkey is off the hook. Like whoa. What a great 10 minutes. My Mom just made a nice speech about family, it was moving. DICKEY!

 

I know that has nothing to do with Dickey but could you imagine if the Yankees got Vernon Wells? Could anything possibly be funnier than that? Instead of booing him we could all just laugh collectively every time he’s up, swinging through high fastballs and popping up first pitch strikes.

Family Christmas Update: I have been banished to the basement. I was distracting everyone by having a laptop in front of me and literally half of my family has been talking about Dickey for the last 10 minutes. SORRY I’M A PROFESSIONAL, MOM. Whoa, I’m literally blogging from my Mom’s basement right now. Such a stereotype. Shameful.

 

So this is happening. It really is happening.

Family Christmas Update: Cousins and brothers-in-law have discovered me in the basement. People who don’t come here much are just realizing that there’s a whole room full of beer and an HDTV down here and that it’s secretly my favourite part of the house. My Mom’s macaroni casserole is as good as ever. Really need to figure out what she does different because I can’t quite get it the same when I try to make it.

 

Right before my Mom’s speech, Jeff turned to my sister’s husband and jokingly said “Let’s hear a speech, Avis.” which was met with a chorus of “Watch it, new blood. You need 5 years tenure and a pledge of long-term commitment before you’re allowed to crack jokes.” My cousin Emily’s boyfriend Chris laughed and nodded because this is his 4th year and they are engaged. Looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table in 2013.

 

We obviously don’t know who either “Prospect” is, but you can probably assume it’s nobody of note or they’d include that name too.

Family Christmas Update: Lunch is over and the nieces and nephews have come down here because this is where all the toys are. I’m watching kids play with my old toys. It wouldn’t be a big deal, but like… They aren’t making the right noise for some of the cars. I’ll do my best to block it out. My niece Camryn says hi.

 

I knew this would happen while today. I just knew it.

Family Christmas Update: My newphew Noah was looking for markers so he could do some colouring. I told him to go upstairs to ask my Mom if he was allowed and get me a beer in the process. I knew he was allowed to use the markers, I just wanted a beer. I’m very good at being an Uncle.

 


Seems like Dickey is fully aware that that team is owned by some rich motherfuckers. This could be a long process.

Family Christmas Update: Everyone wants to know about Jeff, so I feel obligated to let you know that Jeff has located an acoustic guitar. He’s one of the people that knows how to strum and slap the sides at the same time to make rhythm with the body of the guitar. Needless to say this is an incredibly risky move so early on. Jeff has 80 Want. We are all Jeff.

 

So it looks like no matter what, RA Dickey is going to be playing elsewhere in 2013. That gives me some measure of confidence that this deal will be done fairly quickly. Regardless of how much the proposed price is raised from the 2/$26 the Mets refused to give, it seems likely that it’ll be a pretty good deal for a Cy Young winner.

Family Christmas Update: We have our first crying kid at 3:30pm. Chris and Jeff taking turns playing guitar now. Seems like Chris isn’t going to let the 4 years of work he’s done sitting quietly at family gatherings get shown up by some new guy who slaps the side to make rhythm. I’m not picking a side. Chris is a proven entity, and Jeff is still showcasing new tools and potential.

 

Feel good about that, everyone. Read it twice if you have to.

Family Christmas Update: This is the last one from me, I’ve got to shut the laptop down and get back into a car soon and get back to the city. It was nice to come back home and see my family, or at least I assume it would have been if I actually spoke to anyone about anything other than this trade. I guess what I meant to say was it was nice to use a different computer for a while.

Comments (600)

  1. Remember a week ago in the Elliot chat where he said he was told Arencibia and Gose would get it done?

  2. It seems AA may have told Ny that he wasn’t happy about all the leaks. Hope this means AA is back in ninja mode and gets the best deal possible

  3. Remember the lustful yesteryear of Friday where we were certain TDA wasn’t going to be necessary? Sigh..

  4. Please let this deal fall through

  5. Eggnog with some rum will put hair on your chest Archi. Dunno about your head though.

  6. Such a great combination. Please tell me more embarressing stories! Where exactly is Saugeen Shores?

  7. thank god AA busted some ass and media is shutting the fuck up now….2 days ago was awful, too much stress about possibly nothing

  8. The beard… The liberalism…. I always figured you for a Jew on the mother’s side. Who knew.

  9. Give ‘em Gose instead of Syndergaard please & thanks.

    • I’d definitely prefer that. Gose seems more redundant to me than D’Arnaud does, as Rasmus has shown signs of greatness, sporadic as they may be, whereas Arencibia hasn’t strung together much in his time. I see Gose being blocked to a much greater extent than D’Arnaud is.

      But this may not be possible. If the deal goes through as is, assuming the ‘other prospect’ isn’t another top ten guy, I definitely like this deal. AA built up prospect capital, and waited for the right moment to expend it. Some may develop into something, but this deal, the MIA deal, and even the Happ trade all show a willingness to cash in at once, rather than to reluctantly dispense prospects while making marginal upgrades.

      AA has gone for broke, and I’m ok with him taking the risk here. It’s calculated and well-timed, and if it doesn’t work out, there will be plenty of criticism because of the prices that were paid out to overhaul the roster were high. However, I’ll take this strategy over a risk-averse one where we all watch with baited breath as the young names we’ve come to learn go by the wayside as prospects tend to do.

      Close the deal.

      • The thing I like about keeping Gose is that he can fill in if any of our three outfielders gets hurt. If Melky or Bautista have to miss time for whatever reason, Colby slides over and Gose gets called up to fill in at center. TDA has a better bat but has less positional versatility, and his value drops considerably if he becomes a 1B/DH.

        AA is going all-in for 2013, and I think that Gose will be more valuable as depth for next year than either TDA or Syndergaard. I also don’t mind the higher prospect cost (Syndergaard) as much, now that we know that the deal is contingent on an extension. For only one year of Dickey, it’s too much, but for three at a reasonable cost, it’s not too much of an overpay. Happy to see it get done!

        • Completely agree!!! Go Jays Go!!! Is AA done now, what more do we need beyond Oliver coming back? You’d think AA is all in now so if there’s more we need he’d just do it all now??

  10. Damn hipsters lining up for Sunday brunch at Aunties and Uncles….

    • That place is obnoxious. In fact, any business remotely related to the service industry that employs snarky hipsters should be shut down on principle.

      • Have you ever seen Stoeten? Beard, plaid, biking around Little Italy all the time? That, my friend, is a hipster. Perhaps you should find a new blog if you hate them so.

        • It’s not a general hate, it’s contextual. “Here’s your poutine…ugh, whatever” is no way to do your service job.

  11. Sunday Dickey Sunday…like coming down off of a weekend heroin binge.

    No dead babies crawling on the ceiling just yet.

  12. Great, now maybe somebody will write about debunking the myth that knuckleball throwers pitch longer then your average bear. Without mentioning Hough, Wakefield and Niekro as the only knuclkeball pitchers not from the “deadball” era to pitch into their 40′s.

    Not that Wakefield and Hough were even any good into their 40′s. In fact 38 WAS the lat year Wakefield pitched ANYTHING of substance.

    Dickey wouldn’t bother me being a Blue Jay so much if people wouldn’t just keep telling a lie that has been told so many times it’s become the truth.

    • You can add Hoyt Wilhelm, Wilbur Wood and Tom Candiotti to the list. Which I think brings it up to almost 10% of all knuckleballers.

    • Wakefield never won a Cy Young. Do you understand what an aging curve is? its not a direct comaprison its a coeffecient of their peak output. we dont have a large enough sample size for pitchers like Dickey, which leads to stupid direct comparisons like yours.

  13. Not thrilled with the latest trade reports. D’arnaud and Syndergaard is too much. Maybe AA is feeling like he missed out on Gio Gonzalez last year because he balked at the price, and now he wants to make up for that. Maybe he feels that in one year, Johnson will be gone, and they’ll be back at square one for pitching. But its too much. D’arnaud plus small pieces should get this done. Not more. I don’t believe that AA is worried about these guys developing (Syndergaard’s third pitch, D’arnaud’s knees) because then they would have been the ones moved in the Miami trade.

    Chag Samayach.

  14. Just informed that I’ve been traded to the Jays…can’t wait to get to T.O. Cheers everyone…

  15. I trust AA to know if someone is animorphing into travis snider, so I assume that TDA is sliping into a burger induced coma as we speak

  16. Great way to break up the monotony of a 3 day trade rumourfest Archi! You don’t let your family read this stuff do you?

  17. is a thole, JPA combination really that much of a step down from the great and almighty TDA? both still have plenty of control

    • uh, yes it is. “control” of a player is only important if the player is good as well. Thole is a nothing, his only value is catching knuckleballs. So really you’re comparing JPA to TDA, and it’s not really debatable.

      • Thole is not “nothing” before this past season the guy had a career 350 OBP over two seasons, the description actually reminds me alot of Greg Zaun as a player, great plate discipline, little to no power, decent contact ability, great receiver, terrible arm.

    • I can live with JPA’s low BA and OBP, as long as his defence improves. I think that Gibby will be good for him, as he won’t put up with any of his chirping if he gets pinch hit for. And even with his below average plate discipline, he can still mash. If he put up a full season that was relatively injury free, he could hit 30 dingers and get 90 RBI (to go along with his .230/.285/.430 line)…not bad for a #8 hitter.

      If TDA get you Dickey, go for it. The inclusion of Nose is the painful bit…

    • Both still have plenty of control?

      Is this what your argument hinges on? Jesus Christ.

  18. Figures, I post on the 834 post article, and then a new one gets put up, diverting all the traffic. I said:

    Regarding the “Dickey sucks in the AL thing”

    Interleague since 2010 (in other words, since he perfected the knuckleball and became what he is now)

    2010 – 21 IP, 1.29 ERA, .225/.271/.250 slashline good for OPS vs. .521
    2011 – 26 IP, 2.08 ERA, .198/.274/.365 slashline good for OPS vs. .638
    2012 – 24 IP, 1.88 ERA, .088/.151./.127 slashline good for OPS vs. .278

    And for the record, those opponents were NYY (3), Bal (2), Det (2), TBR, Oak, Cle

    Sample size is obviously small, but not without meaning. BAnd it certainly fits with the rest of the narrative…that is, since 2010, Dickeys been an elite pitcher, one of the best in baseball.

    That said, considering nobody else is all that interested, and we’re mostly bidding against ourselves, TDA+NS is too much.

    Arencibia+NS, Gose+Arencibia, Gose+NS, TDA straight up is all fine. But not the deal as is reported.

    And honestly, I’d be surprised if AA agreed to this. Everyon in the world knows that’s a huge overpay. Not sure why we assume AA doesn’t either. Especially considering all the leaks are coming from the NY side. In other words, we’re only hearing what NYM wants us to hear…and it’s in their interest to have the narrative that the price for Dickey is only going up. They know AA won’t contradict their story with his own leaks. I’m not buying it.

    • The whole NL to AL discussion is bizarre considering that the guy is a knuckleballer. That’s the kind of conventional analysis that has to be tossed.

    • Shields = Myers + odorizzi
      JJ = nicolino+ hech
      Dickey= d’Arnaud+ Noah S.
      Dickey > JJ and Shields
      Dickey salary is only 5 , JJ is 13.75 and Shields is 10.25
      Dickey is prepared to extend 2 for 26 . That is one year of Greinke contract
      So starting pitching cost players or money
      To play the game , better understand the new rules

    • I agree 100%. Going for it shouldn’t mean ripping apart the farm unnecessarily. Look at Philly. They went all in a few years back, and were baseballs consensus best team. But they haven’t even made a WS since the Halladay trade. And now, they’re buried under a bunch of bad contracts, with no young players to turn to.

      • Yup. This trade makes the model even more severe. It’s a great three year window but i’d rather cheer for a consistently good team than one that might have a ten year, post playoff lull, of futility.

        • Why is it being stated like Toronto isnt allowed to add depth and prospects after this point? Do the jays also lose to right to acquire future prospects? Holy fuck this is sounding retarded

          • Sure they can add. Currently, they’re empty. Whats so hard to understand about that? It takes a few years to rebuild a system, more with all the current caps on draft spending and international free agency you moron.

        • You’ve been cheering for a team with a post 20 year playoff run. Get over it! The jays have made some amazing trades that have put them back in contention. Nose Snygard won’t be in the bigs making an impact for five years. Just roll with it.

    • :That said, considering nobody else is all that interested, and we’re mostly bidding against ourselves”

      Where the hell do you get that from?

      Apparently many teams were checking in for him including the whole AL east. Also, there aren’t any other top pitchers available for trade. On top of that, free agents don’t tend to sign in Toronto for a variety of reasons.

      This seems to be AA’s ONLY option and he went for it rather than masturbate to prospect porn.

  19. If there’s an extension window this deal is happening. Have a feeling Arencibia is going over to his Nashville neighbour to do that selling job as we speak.

  20. Is Archi always this good? Does he post often? This stuff is brilliant.

  21. The other part of the long drawn out equation is if the Jays are sending cash the other way to cover Buck, nothing becomes official without league approval (If it’s over a million)…..I think.

  22. I don’t want this to be the trade that gets AA universally laughed at by the rest of MLB. If this a deal that slides in the Mets’ favour, it would double bother me if it involved a significant part of the Jays’ future.

    • Ken ken says deal is done blue jays now have window to extend

    • If an extension is worked out that changes the complexion of the trade. Remember, the deal is contingent on the Jays working out an extension. So if Dickey doesn’t sign on for a few more years the deal is dead.

    • …it won’t be…have faith in the Ninja.

    • @ fastball: The future is now! Who cares what the rest of the League thinks! There are probably more than a few teams out there that would very quickly trade GM’s with Toronto. Get over the doom and gloom.

    • @OP fastball. Remind yourself of this when you are slouched over on Young street in a puddle of your own urine and vomit…just sayin.

  23. So there you have it, the Jay wouldn’t bite without an extension window.

  24. My dad just made a face when I told him John Buck would be traded.

    Where did I go wrong?

  25. It’s a done deal if he signs the extension. Still have to note Kne Rosenthal has stayed pretty far way from this and says what the trades believed to be. Right now it is what it looks like but could end up being different tstill don’t no the other two players in this deal if it’s the deal everyone thinks it is.

    • Rosenthal also expected deal to go through without extension window.

      • Jjust no Syndergaard, I’m guessing. Just TDA non elite prospect, Buck for Money, Thole Dickey. I’ve heard we are giving mets money for Buck, I’m fine with this but not sure why we would. He makes what a million more than Dickey if they kept him……. Pay all of Bucks contract ya cheap bastards, the cost of getting Synder and TDA pay Bucks contract.

        • Money should be on the the side the Mets are getting but again why the Mets can’t eat Bucks contracts as the part of the deal…. Fuck Jason Bay.

  26. remember when we thought gose and arencibia was an overpay??? those were good times.
    Even still I don’t think its that bad a trade even if what is being reported is accurate.

  27. This deal would have been have been a lot more palatable had it taken place prior to the new cba. AA can’t just go and throw 10 million dollars at the draft and pick up a new Syndergaard. The avenues to acquire young cheap talent and do a quick rebuild are now severely restricted.

    • if we do overpay dramatically, we lose next year’s first rounder, correct? it’s not impossible to think of circumstances where that would be worth doing, especially since it’s not going to be a very high pick in the 2014 draft…

    • totally agree. this rumoured deal is not AA’s MO. the Florida deal was still his MO as, although it involved dealing away prospects, it still involved getting premium value. several talented players in their prime for several good prospects (but not their best prospects). that deal wasa great oppt. this deal involves dealing away literally their best prospects for one pitcher who is 38, has a highly unique pitch and has only succeeded in ther NL. for all we know, their staff could be quite good without him. the mets article has this quote: “…one AL executive said if the deal went through it would be ‘highway robbery’ in the Mets’ favor”.

      • So, yeah, sour grapes. What would you expect him to say? We screwed up by not having a good farm system to try and deal from. ….You can expect rival Gm’s to be jealous of this deal, and will say anything to justify their own lack of trade chips.

  28. So we’re at something like this then if it goes through..

    1B 4 yrs EE
    2B 4 yrs Izturis
    SS 5 yrs Reyes
    3B 5 yrs Lawrie
    LF 2 yrs Melky
    CF 2 yrs Rasmus
    RF 4 yrs Bautista
    DH 1 yrs Lind
    C 4 yrs JPA
    BN 2 yrs Bonafacio
    BN 4 yrs Thole
    BN 1 yrs Rajai
    BN 6yrs Gose

    SP 3 yrs Dickey
    SP 1 yrs JJ
    SP 3 yrs Buehrle
    SP 3 yrs Morrow
    SP 4 yrs Romero

    Getting a platoon partner for Lind (or replacement) and extending JJ are the only issues left and the Jays still have the ability to make trades even after this.

    • Gose won’t be on the bench, he’ll be in AAA.

    • I agree with you on everything except Bonafacio. I don’t think he will be on the bench. I think you have to have Reyes and Bonafacio at the top of the order. You could have 50 steals, 50 steals, and 50 Homeruns at the top of the order.

    • It’s a pretty good visual illustration for people to look at as they wet themselves over the thought of losing d’Arnaud and Syndergaard. The team is set pretty much everywhere for 2 years at minimum. Lind is also under control with the options they have on for longer than one year.

      In addition to that they’ll nearly unmatched pitching depth with Happ, Hutchison and Drabek to backup the starting 5 with Nolin and Stroman right behind.

      • Stroman seems to project as a (hopefully late inning) reliever no??? and Moises as a platoon with Lind (And final bench guy) would be good enough with the surrounding lineup and he crushed lefties in a SSS last year…if Lind/Sierra, JPA/Thole, Izturis/Bonifacio/Rajai are 7-8-9 we’ll have a very above average lineup…

  29. Even after the Rosenthal tweet I still feel we’re in the same place as we were yesterday. Wonder what the hold-up was if the negotiating window starts now. Maybe a 2nd trade? Flipping Buehrle to another team?

    • As what? A salary shed?

      If that happens, my brain wouldn’t be able to digest the process of trading top prospects for win now pieces…and then trading win now pieces for salary relief.

      Thankfully, i’m confident that Anthopoulos isn’t using the off season to mindfuck his fan base.

      • I’m still holding out hope on getting one of Wheeler/Harvey/Niese

        Which would leave us with too many starters

    • Trade him for Garza, he’ll be back in Chicago and we’ll have a better, younger, cheaper pitcher.

  30. http://bit.ly/ZzIwvy if MLBTraderumors says it’s true it must be.

  31. I don’t know about everyone else, but I love the family Christmas updates. At this point they’re more fun than the Dickey stuff. Well done, Archi!

  32. Fucking Josh Thole…

  33. Gose, Sanchez all that’s left for center pieces in a trade at the trade deadline. If we still put money in this team which it looks like Rogers will continue doing to plug holes as we go along then…… prospects might be irrelevant in terms of the big league roster will still need to draft and develop to continue making trades. Who knows a playoff berth could be what makes tons of free agents want to come to the blue Jays.

    I read an interesting article about the Dodgers tv deal can’t remeber where but in the article it mentions that if the Dodgers owned their own network a hell of a lot less money would go into the revenue system for all of baseball from the tv deal. Meaning you get to keep more money from your tv deal.. It’s kind of interesting because Blue Jays and Yankees are the only two that own most or all of the network their tv deal is with, meaning if the Jays tv revenue keeps going up in numbers and I think it will with this roster we could be spending in the 150 million range one day which is incredible. (they get to keep more of the tv revenue than any other team in baseball of course it still isn’t worth the 2 billion or 6 or whatever the hell the dodger tv deal is) Makes me exstatic even with losing our number 1, 3 prospect because we should have the money to fill holes later on and who knows resign Josh Johnson.

    Have to wonder alittle if this means AA will now begin talks with Josh Johnson on an extension seeing how they’re talking to Dickey. I know Dickey is asking for far less but maybe it begins talks with JJ because his price is only going to go up.

    • Because of JJ’s injury history it’s likely that an extension now (1 year of possibly getting injured away from free agency) would have to be discounted. Seeing as how Greinke got paid all the money I’d think JJ would wait. until next offseason. That said, I hope they extend him now.

      • JJ will be looking for 5-6yr. Doubtful AA offers that to a guy with his history of arm problems. More likely, JJ gets a qualifying offer and a handshake. AA gets a top 50 draft pick as compensation and either Hutch joins the rotation or they go out and get another guy.

    • um, beavis…. i think you have a poor sense of the talent in the system. there are guys in rookie an low-a that no one is chatting about, but who had great years. it’s just the system is stuffed full of guys who “have a pedigree” that it’s hard to notice how deep the system still is. gonzales, dejong, del rosario, labourt….the jays have lots of TEENAGERS who can hurl.
      the scouting on nose snyden wasn’t that he was the next roy halladay…and even if he is – that doesn’t help the jays in 2013…

      • Well said Carbuncle. His view is typically short sighted. He’s forgetting about Drabek, Hutchison, Stroman and Nolin for one thing. Add Osuna, Tirado, Smoral and Norris and as you said lots of younger guys in rookie ball that have a chance to grow into something else.

  34. last 3 years

    dickey 39 wins
    marcum 33 wins while being injured

    I would have rather signed marcum. He’s a much better risk. I hope this deal never happens.

    • You’re going on pitcher wins?

    • Are you actually counting wins? Like the one a pitcher gets when his team scores runs?? WTF man!? What year are you from???

    • Except the last 3 years Marcum played on a really good Brewers team that made the playoffs while the Mets were average.

      Wins don’t mean a whole lot in that context

    • you must be new around here! Who had more rbi’s?

    • I love Marcum, I do. But you’re comparing Shaun Marcum to RA fucking Dickey? And using fucking WINS to do it? Come on man. You’re better than this.

      Or maybe you’re not. I don’t know. I’ve just met you.

    • Dear Gary,

      Please go back to commenting on TSN where you will feel more at home with all the puckheads and you can discuss the NHL lockout all day.

      Sincerely,

      All DJF commenters with more than two brain cells.

      • Wow! Some people need to fuck off with the self-importance, pompous losers.

        • And still others need to recognize a recurring joke with respect to evaluating pitchers based on wins and not take it so seriously.

          • It’s hypocritical, unless your name is Bill fucking James then you thought on the exact same level as Gary here at one time. Have you watched a baseball broadcast before? The very first stat they list for a pitcher is wins. Just not sure why someone is automatically dubbed a “retard” cause they haven’t learned advanced stats yet.

    • @Gary didn’t I ask you to stop licking the inside of your ass the other day? Please go and do some reading.

  35. http://aleastbound.com/2012/12/16/breaking-down-ra-dickeys-past-three-seasons/

    good break down on his past three years in terms of strikeouts, velocity etc.

    also another story under that one has a good link to Dave Cameron’s piece.

    basically he had a HUGE increase in swinging strikes and contact rates were way down in 2012, red flags??

  36. Amazing. Hurts to part with two fantastic prospects, But with the Miami trade we were clearly gong all in for the next couple of years, and the whole point of having prospects is to move them for talent. We’ll sign Dickey for 2 more and we’ll be favourites for the East this year. I can’t believe I even wrote that sentence.
    Who knows what will happen with D’arnaud or Syndegard, but either way, I’m cool with it if we’re playing ball next October.

    • +1M if we are playing games in October.

      This had to be the most exciting off-season in memory. If you start with Farrell leaving and then follow the sports pages, the Jays aren’t just part of the conversation. They are the conversation.

  37. I 100% want this deal to go through. Top notch prospects are cool and all, but so is an RL ace and a real shot at winning

  38. This is redick. If the jays are ready to dish out ten million a season for RA, then just sign markam to alittle less and keep the prospects in question. Markham might be not as good at the moment but he holds the same risk as dickey. The key here though is you keep TDA and cindy. Thoughts.

    • If you think Marcum is even comparable to Dickey than you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    • Marcum’s best season by Baseball Reference WAR is 3.8 in 2010. So the upside just ins’t there the same way as it is with Dickey and I don’t believe the risk is the same, knucklers don’t have to throw as hard as conventional pitchers. As Dickey loses arm strength as he ages he’ll throw a more conventional knuckler (if there is such a thing) and probably still be effective.

  39. TDA is no Harper and Syndergaard is no Strassburg.

    There are NO other top pitchers available.

    Sign a FA you say? They don’t sign here. Try again.

    The rotation is done now. Romero #1 last year, potentially #5 this year.

    Fucking relax prospect porn masturbaters!

    • This is such bullshit and gets parroted by everyone….

      Notable free agents that signed in toronto include:

      Roger Clemens
      Jack Morris
      Paul Molitor
      Frank Thomas
      BJ Ryan
      Jose Canseco

      • So six guys in the last 20 years, two of them when the Jays were perennial contenders? Not exactly proving your point there…

      • Frank Thomas was long past done when he got to Toronto and your list is missing some big names.

        AJ Burnett
        BJ Ryan
        Dave Stewart
        Troy Glaus
        Lyle Overbay
        David Eckstein
        Scott Rolen

        Sure a lot of these guys didnt necessarily shine as Jays but they were all reputable free agents when they signed.

        • He already listed Ryan, Overbay was a trade acquisition, Rolen was a trade acquisition, Glaus was a trade acquisition, and Eckstein kinda sucks. Looks like you need too do a little more research before making a list like that…

        • Traded for glaus. Then traded glaus for rolen

  40. Hey I live right by Saugeen Shores! Welcome to Bruce County Archi, unless you have family here and you’re here all the time. Either way, hooray

  41. So, what are the chances this gets done? 90%? I’s day so. Unless Dickey will be like I want 2 yrs and 40m from you guys because Im going to canada and your not the mets.

    • I’s day so too.

      A fait accompli? I’d say ‘fingers crossed,’ but 72 hours of that would be unbearable.

  42. I’m not a huge fan of this deal. With that having been said, fuck it. All in. Let’s start the season.

  43. It looks like a bit of an overpay but the end result is the Jays have arguably the best rotation in the division (at least post-Shields trade), right?

  44. Even if the additional prospects are, in fact, “non-elite”, I have to believe the Jays are getting the better prospect back.

    But even if the two prospects are a wash, AA has definitely earned the benefit of the doubt.

    Prospect evaluations are obviously a crapshoot. Every prospect guru and every MLB team fuck up on a regular basis.

    However, I would suggest it is far easier to evaluate if a prospect is going to miss their “ceiling” as opposed to hit it.

    And AA has a pretty good track record to date of trading top prospects that have yet to come back to haunt him.

    There’s Brett Wallace. There’s Zack Stewart.

    And now, perhaps, it is TDA & Syndegaard.

    Remember AA and his scouts have far more info on these two than anyone. The fact that he is trading them may very well allude to the fact he values them less than the industry.

    I believe this is the 2nd transaction that AA has made in which he has been blasted on the internet.

    The 1st was the Jose Bautista extension and that has worked out pretty well.

  45. Oh and I would feel good about Carlos v. By the trade deadline you could then do a trade if needed around when CV usually fatigues. Have a feeling though, he will not fatigue as soon though with the experience he’s had now. The difference in wins would not be worth giving up our best prospects

  46. Nolin, Stilson, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Smoral…

    All’s not lost. But I sure would love to catch wind of a Jj extension before opening day. I wonder what it would take, or if they’re even interested given his injury history.

    • gonzales, dejong, cardona…

      and then a shitload of guys getting no attention but who had nice years in rookie ball: guys like labourt, yeyfry del rosario, and more…and…that’s JUST the pitching depth.

      let’s not forget that hutchison looked good before he got hurt. drabek isn’t nothing (yet)….

      today is a good day to be a jays fan.

    • Or if JJ’s even interested given what Greinke just got on the open market BEFORE teams start getting an extra $25M a year from the national TV deal.

  47. People say that this is an overpayment but they are idiots. The Blue Jays have a sweet team and a chance to win it all. The only people who get excited about prospects care more about stats and projections than actually watching baseball anyways, so they can all go fuck themselves.

  48. as much as im infatuated with d’arnaud i try to think if this as the kent cone trade.

  49. The Dome is gonna be full of interesting signs, fans and shit this year:

    Melkman/Got Juice? jokes
    Los V and other latin-carribean references
    Dickey/Johnson and the plethora of penile puns
    Pitbull masks for Buerhle

    Going to be one hell of a place for fans of the sport of baseball to come watch a good, fun, and competitive game in the most competitive division in pro sports – good times indeed

    • unfortunately, you’re assuming:

      1) the majority of Jays fans/BJ marketing department are creative (they did after all, completely drop the ball on wearing/handing out undershirts to all fans after the ‘man in white’ controversy).
      2) the staff at the dome have surgically removed the pickels from the asses and have developed a sense of humour about allowing risque signs.

      sigh…

    • Dickey loves BJs!

  50. @gary is right, who would you rather have dickey or marcum/darnaud/synd? that’s a no brainer

  51. Your not an idiot if it’s true. Way overpayment. Hey I’m with you on having dickey. Seeing how hard it is to get things done I will embrace this trade. I just see other options there.

  52. ZUBER! come visit me at the Port Elgin Walmart I work in the backroom!!!

  53. So apparently Syndergaard is NOT in this deal, Its TDA, Snyder, Buck and low level prospect for Dickey, Thole and prospect.

  54. Anyways, what was that earlier shit about Reyes wanting to go to the Mets (TSN) ?? If this is the final deal, then Reyes didn’t get his wish. What’s leftover, however, is the awkward residue that he didn’t want to be here……..

  55. This is silly. Buster Posey is the only good catcher in all of baseball. D’Arnaud is unproven at the major league level. Arencibia can’t hit for average but crushes the ball when he makes contact. Who cares in this lineup?? Arencibia needs to call a good game, let Buck catch once a week, and smash the ball once in a while. The Jays are obviously all in now, why not get Dickey??? Catcher is such an overrated position, and if D’Arnaud isnt going to be Posey, who cares? Win now! The AL East is vunerable. Take it now and stop caring about the future. The future is now for the Jays. PS im a Tigers fan and half drunk watching NFL football on a Sunday afternoon. This is just my take. Cheers!

  56. anyone else worried that Dickey has basically only had 1 great year and the rest average to below average years??

    • Want to look at the stats again? his last three years have been awesome.

      Greinke won the Cy once and he just got signed to a gagillion bagillion dollars. Dickey wants 2-3 years and a case of beer in comparison.

  57. World Series, here we come baby ! Jays odds now @ 8-1 with this deal.

    • The leaks have all come from the NY side. There just isn’t reason to believe everything 100% just yet.

      • True.

        AA would neither confirm or deny any of the rumors.

        Hopefully the TDA/Snygen talk is just NY leaking to drive up the price if this deal falls apart.

  58. This report suggets that Thole might not even be in the final deal.

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8752226/ra-dickey-toronto-blue-jays-extension-all-remains-trade-new-york-mets-report-says

    Which really means many of the secondary pieces might not even be accurate at this point.

    Are we really going to put all our faith in Joel Sherman? You know, the guy who originally suggested that Dickey would not sign an extension with TO and that if Syndegaard were added the Mets would have to also give up a “significant” prospect.

    I still think the pieces being reported may very well be inaccurate.

  59. Plus when healthy the Jays now have a serious excess of SP’s. Josh Johnson is going to leave after this year? Golly! If the Jays somehow arent in contention at the trade deadline they have so much talent that could be dealt. Fuck, trade a few SP’s and bring back Doc for fun. If they dont win, AA has lots of room to fuck around. Who cares about a couple prospects????

  60. So how long until JA Happ starts whining again about being shifted to the bullpen?

    • Happ could be dealt to a team that wants a backend guy but don’t want to pay for much

      Maybe the Angels take him and another piece in exchange for Morales?

      • Hmmm thats interesting. I wonder if the angels could do better than happ but I would do that if im the jays. Plus, Morales is a switch hitter so he can actually hit against lefties. Then resign villanueva for long relief/ 6th starter.

        • I like that move. I think Villanueva is a descent pitcher and as a sixth starter or swing man he is perfect.

          • I like Villi too, prefer him as 6th guy, he has been a good character guy for Jays too

        • Yea they wont deal Trumbo IMO – they will deal Wells first, but if no takers, they could cave and trade Borjos for a pitcher, in which case they probably wont deal Morales

          1 yr of Morales for 2 yrs of Happ and maybe give them Cooper? or Sierra?

      • No he won’t be. We needed depth at SP. We have that now. If we trade Happ, we no longer have it.

        He can whine all he wants, he’s not going anywhere. He’s still going to get a decent amount of starts anyways.

      • You would not have to give up that much , contollable pitching will get you more

    • I think Happ will take it in stride because his still Arb so he’s still our property….. pimp Talk. Really who the hell is Happ going to throw under the bus in making a case to Gibbons of why he should be in the rotation, the only one is Romero and Romero has a better track record and in the AL. Happ can’t even bring up the left handed thing; Romero left handed too.

  61. i actually hope the Jays hang on to Happ and try to unload Buehrle and his albatross. Happ will provide very similar value for much cheaper, in my opinion. Maybe Buehrle plus some cash could bring something useful back (Mike Morse anyone?)

  62. Funny thing is we wouldn’t even need Thole in the deal if the Marlins didn’t want Mathis. Marlins paid the difference between Bucka nd Mathis but now we’re giving the money to Mets for them to take buck….. Loria screws people over again. Don’t see the money as a problem probably not very much, just funny that we wouldmn’t even need to throw in Bucka nd Money if we just kept Mathis.

  63. Is thole good at catching the knuckle? is that the thought behind bringing him in over Buck?

    • I believe so, in his scouting report it says he’s a good defensive catcher who has a decent average but has no power. Caught alot of Dickeys starts over the years. I like that he’s left handed too. If JPA struggles vs RHP. He gonna sit vs them.

  64. Regarding the overpay(and it is), generally speaking baseball trades tend to favour the lesser(rebuilding) team over the shopping(contending) team. The Jays have changed modus operandi and set a course where there is no turning back.

    • AA knows he’s gone if the MIA trade doesn’t end up working out (if the pitchers get hurt/can’t transition to the AL/Reyes tears a hammy). That was the moment he went all-in. This move is, aside from being a good baseball trade, the equivalent of throwing your car keys, Rolex, wedding ring, and wallet on top of the stack of chips you already pushed in. If you lose, you’re fucked anyway, so you might as well risk absolutely everything.

      The flipside is, if it all works out, you’re golden. But that’s what gambling is all about. For every story year hear about some dork that lost everything, don’t forget there’s the other side — the guy who played his hand perfectly and won it all.

      • If everybody gets hurt (Reyes, Bautista, EE etc and a bunch of pitchers) I don’t think it’ll mean the end of AA but if the team just doesn’t perform or Gibbons fucks something up, then yeah, AA will be just about out of time here.

    • Think you’ve got it mixed up. Baseball trades generally favor the team getting the established MLB stars (the contending team) over the team getting the touted prospects (rebuilding)

      • +1

        Especially if you take salary out of the equation.

        Best player almost wins every deal.

      • What I’m trying to say is the contending team usually is the overpayer in the long term.

        • I would argue that the contender always appears to overpay on the day of the trade, but in the long run it’s always a coin flip because prospects are involved.

  65. Also, given comments about how shocked other execs were that d’Arnaud was/will be moved, and that multiple teams had asked about him, what do you put the odds at that TDA actually starts the season on the Mets’ 40-man? If there’s that much interest, think how much quicker the rebuild would be if you flipped him to one of the other teams that was interested…

  66. [...] of this trade is what’s happening online: Jays fans are freaking out online and in the comment sections of blogs, saying the team is giving up too much. And over at Mets blogs and the like, fans are saying the [...]

  67. Hmmm, now there is talk that Dickey could be asking for $40-45 mil and 3 yrs

    I wonder why this all of sudden popped up.

    I think we all figured Jays could toss him 30 mil or slightly more than what he wanted and he’d be cool but 45 for 3 years, thats going to start the whole complaints about why not just Anibal and Haren etc

    Could be the media being fucking dicks again

    • ESPN.com’s Buster Olney tweeted three years and $40-45MM for Dickey’s 2014-16 seasons would be fair market value in the assessment of one longtime agent.
      Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#r1jXCZi8g4gjJXs6.99

      • But why would we give up all those prospects only to pay him market value? That’s idiotic.

        We could just get market value pitching in the FA market right now.

        Overpaying in prospects only makes sense if we underpay in dollars.

    • Of course he’s going to ask for more, he’s got a lot of oeverage now. Although considering the overpay in prospects, it’s probably not as much as DIckey thinks.

      The only reason we paid so much in prospects was because of the expectation that he was going to sign cheaply. We’re not giving up a ton of prospects just to be able to pay him a lot of oney. If we want to do that, we’d just keep prospects and sign someone in FA.

      That’s why the Mets are idiots. They should have extended him and tehn traded him. Extending him greatly increases hi trade value.

      • If he want’s way more than what was reported then Jays can walk away or trade for him for one year and deal less prospects.

        • I wonder how much over the 2/26 will be considered too much? Good thing AA got that clause included in the trade.

      • I’m guessing Dickey would have wanted some kind of no-trade protection with his extension. If he didn’t get that and the Mets traded him right after extending him, that’s would have been a good way for the Mets to torch any of their goodwill with their own players and send out red flags to agents and free agents around the league. That is not how you do business in this industry in good faith.

      • i’m not sure that TOR is doing that or not. every time i think this deal can’t get worse, it does. if they don’t get dickey cheaply and thereby reduce their chances of re-signing josh johnson by making this trade too, then i don’t like it at all.

      • He’s 38.

        Throws a knuckleball.

        At the peak of his value.

        Bridges are burned between him and the Mets.

        Jays are reportedly paying big in prospects.

        Jays can likely walk away at little or no cost.

        This all adds up to zero leverage for Dickey.

  68. What’s for dessert Stoeten?

  69. The franchise is ruined!!! The franchise is ruined!!! The guys we traded were totally gonna put us over the top and bring us to glory in 2015 or something!! Possibly!! Guys!!

  70. Wells in a Yankee uniform heh ☂

  71. It’s very odd that I’m refreshing every 5 minutes for Christmas updates, knowing there’s no Dickey updates/

    • Announcer (eating popcorn): “Jeff appears to be attempting to fast track the 5 year family acceptance window. Is Chris feeling the pressure to up his game in 2013? Will he crack and attempt to make his move in 2012 instead? Stay tuned folks…”

    • I just realized this as well. I think I have entered a dark place in my life. I am going to go now….

  72. Who wouldn’t want a reasonably priced dickey extension, get it done AA!!

  73. All your Jeff are belong to us

  74. Why would anyone boo Vernon? He was a total class act and did a lot of positive work for the city. I am so disgusted how we boo anyone that ever played here. How is that helpful to anything?

    • Paying customers of an entertainment product? Are you free to applaud or give a standing ovation? Why would booing be any less appropriate if the product is poor and not worth the price of admission?

      • News flash: he isn’t on the jays anymore. While he was actually here he made top 10 in a number of all time blue jays offensive stats. Only a petulant idiot would boo based on his last 2 injured years with us.

        • Thanks for the update. That stick uncomfortable to sit on?

        • The fact that he ISN’T on the Jays anymore is reason enough to boo. I boo Derek Jeter because he isnt a Jay, not because he sucks, which he doesnt.
          Go cheer for the Angels or BoSux, you would fit in there…
          I never really see positive Jays comments from you, only defending the trash on the way out, whats up with that?

  75. Jeff seems to be the Bryce Harper of your family with his brash upstart ways,

    Does this make Chris your Cole Hammels? Is violence imminent?

  76. About Vernon Wells, most people forget that Bernie Williams of the Yankees was nearing the end ( he had 1 year left on his contract and the Yanks were not bringing him back ). Paul Godfrey negotiated the long term extension for Vernon to keep the Yankees from getting him as that would have sent a horrible message to the Blue Jays fan base had Vernon departed Toronto to sign with the Yankees. So Yeah, it would be funny to see him land with the Yanks in light of that notion.

  77. I’ve been sweating about giving up TDA and Synderawesome, but then I read this on Old Time Family Baseball:

    “[in 2012] Henderson Alvarez lead the team in innings and wins despite a 4.85 ERA and 3.8 K/9.”

    That’s how fucked the Jays pitching rotation was after all the injuries. Now? Rickey Romero is the fifth starter.

    The only way we were going to get here is by overpaying. So fuck it. Game on.

  78. Alright so this has pretty much been confirmed now. As of now, I cant say whether this is a good or bad trade for the Jays. That will depend on the extension signed and the prospect received from the Mets. I am not by far one of the delusional idiots out that that actually believes the Jays will get Wheeler or Harvey but a prospect ranked between 7-12 in the Mets organization would sure be nice. Some random ass unheard of 24 year old AA prospect doesnt get this deal my personal thumbs up. Bobby Parnell while not a prospect would seal the deal for me.

    Now, moving on, Ive said this before but to all you morons shitting all over JPA, seriously, show some fucking love for your team. Were talking about a power hitting catcher going into his 3rd full year. His on base skills and defense will surely be targets for the Jays coaching staff so why not show some support for the guy. Seriously, you all act like hes the worst hitting catcher in the show. When you have a guy in the fucking NINE hole that has 20-30 homerun power, life isnt exactly bad now is it? Wake up…

    To anyone dogging on this deal, yes, TDA and Syndergaard is a heavy price but we all banded together and demanded moves be made for the good of the franchise. We wanted to see the Jays compete in the East and now they will. So many trades have made the Jays and AA look like ninjas, its about time you all learned what a proper trade looks like.

    Spare me the TDA is a future Posey bullshit please. If the Jays get the 2012 cy young winner, extended cheap, a good back up catcher signed cheap long term and a good prospect I think the Jays paid fair value for that.

    • Really hoping on the prospect.

      You’re right it’s likely not Harvey or Wheeler, but I don’t think Familia or Meija is out of the question.

      Or Nimmo. High upside OF that would give the Jays farm a little more balance. Very light on the position players right now.

      • “we all banded together and demanded moves be made for the good of the franchise.” – thats pretty funny – its like you actually believe this, and you might actually believe that it matters to the blue jays – all i demand from my free entertainment is a “youre welcome” when i say thanks for a lifetime of free entertainment

        • Really man,,, I tell you what, go back through the last oh…say 2 years or more of entries on DJF alone, especially last summer and look at the thousands of posts from fans fed up with the mismanagement of the club. Everyone was sick of AA sitting on his hands and his big pile of prospects. And if you dont think the organization felt the frustration of the fans as well as the team’s star players, youre nuts.

    • This guy fucking gets it. i don’t know why everyone is so keen on waiting for prospects to develop when we have a chance to dominate a weak american league east. its like some of you guys want the jays to keep losing. Wake up we have a chance and in AA I TRUST.

      • Its very very wierd but I never did get to see TDA and I’d venture a guess most of the people posting here didnt either. Still I’m gonna miss him like an old friend…WHAT IS that anyway?

        Even TDA was going to have a learning curve, not to mention. as Archi said in the post, a wonky knee. And Syndergaard wasnt going to be in the show for a few years. So I can handle it. We’ve still got Sanchez and Osuna.

        The rotation after “the Trade” was 90% in place and ready along with Reyes and Bonifacio. You cant go wasting that.

        And lets not forget all those bozos who wanted to trade JB because he wouldnt be at his peak when they started to contend.

        O ye of little faith…..

    • Yeah good point. The marginal utility of DArnaud over Arencibia (avg and a bit better D for power, really), since they’re both young, is not enough to justify being ok with JPA being traded but not DArnaud. And JPA is really well liked by his teammates. Not to say they wouldn’t get along with DArnaud, and its not a deal breaker, but its gotta count for something. And how many times are they this close. And how many times does a Cy young guy, regardless of what pitches he throws or how old he is, become available the very next offseason.

      Think about where this team was when we received Mike Aviles for John Farrell. Seems like ages ago, doesn’t it?

    • If the Mets can build a championship team around TDA and Syndergaard, more power to them. I’ll be rooting for them. Meanwhile, if the Jays put a World Series banner into the Rogers Centre, it will be cause for euphoria. The two kids can become hall of famers and I won’t care one little bit. If the Jays are not successful in winning a division or two while making a deep run into the playoffs, it will be costly and disappointing. But we won’t be able to say they didn’t try.

    • I agree JPA is a totally acceptable catcher for the league minimum salary. And his d was a lot better last year. And aren’t fans supposed to support their team? Otherwise what is the point?

      • Its annoying,,,,

        People are acting like TDA is SOOOOO far above JPA… why? Because of some small minor league differences in numbers?

        JPA is cheap, effective and like I said… to have a guy with that kind of power in your 8-9 hole isnt what I would call a hole in the organization.

        • Nice post hair swoosh…can’t say that I’ve agreed with many of your previous ones but you put the dick to the nail on this.

  79. Isn’t a bit politically incorrect to refer to ‘christmas’ on the blog?

  80. Anyone know how to instantly go to the bottom of this forum

    • hit reply

    • Instantly no, but I hit the PgDn key a few times and then hold it down and I’m there in a couple seconds. If there is a keystroke that does it I’d like to know too.

      • The ‘end’ button, after clicking on the black margins of the page (for whatever reason) gets me to the bottom of the comments section, if that is what you are looking for.

        • Got it, thanks. Excellent. I think maybe some posters are on mobile devices and the page works differently — at least, the REPLY click doesn’t move me anywhere down the page.

    • Try clicking your heels together three times while saying “Open Sesame.”

    • Cntrl and end.

  81. Sounds like dickey wants 40 to 45 mill now for going to the jays. Makes sense with the tax hit and moving unconvince

  82. Nice. Works. That last forum was getting out of control with the thousand messages left.

  83. I still think parnell is going to be part of this somehow. AA doesn’t usually only fill one need but at least two

  84. Fuck, have people forgotten the two huge additions the jays made today with all this dickey talk? Buddy Carlyle and Greg Smith. Playoffs!!!!

  85. Jeff sounds like a douche.

  86. The Thole for Buck part seems to be underestimated. Miami sent money to pay Buck’s salary so if the Jays send any to the Mets, it’s probably just that.

    We’re going to need a backup other than Buck anyways soon enough and Thole is under control for 4 years. Even though he lacks power, except for last year, he’s hit for a decent average and has pretty good BB/K ratio unlike JPA.

    Thole’s a left handed, high contact/on base catcher and JPA is a right handed, high K/power bat. Both under cheap control for 4 years.

  87. Josh thole could be better than JpA

  88. This is the best weekend post ever!

  89. I’ve had more than a few too many and I hate myself for saying this but: WE’RE GETTING FUCKING FLEECED

    • Totally agree!!

      You guys all have your heads of up your asses, trying to look on the bright side of what you all know deep down is a terrible trade. He’s 38 fucking years old and the price is WAY too high! AA is mortgaging the future for what? 2 maybe 3 years? We have no one besides gose left in the minors. We’ve got nothing to keep this team alive now, after 3 years we’ll be back at the bottom of the division for another 20 years. That old loser doesn’t even want to come here! 26 million was enough to play for the Mets but to play in Toronto, he’s demanding more money?!? F that!

      • Yup

      • “mortgaging the future” is the #1 cliche for people who don’t know what they’re talking about.

      • here’s the deal, though. What you say would be true (possibly) if we went back to being a small/medium payroll team. The truth is we do still have minor league assets (yes, not nearly as much)…but we have a shit tonne of major league assets. We can trade and buy players when we operate the way we are showing we want to operate now. Were playing with the big boys…not with Oakland and Tampa Bay. Get used to that reality! We may be ‘losing’ this deal to some degree, but we are going to winning a lot of wars! We need to stop acting like losers and start thinking like winners: this means knowing how ‘assets’ minor or major league work, and the kind of money that winning can bring to a team.

        • Were = We are

        • We don’t lose the trade if we win a World Series. Who would complain about this pickup if Dickey pitches to his average metrics for the last 3 years. I don’t particularly care if he’s a number 5 starter in 3 years if we have hit the playoffs 2 years in a row.

          Here’s a tautology for everyone: you can’t go all in if you don’t go all in.

    • Perhaps Jays should just entertain signing Edwin Jackson instead.

  90. Dickey, Parnell, and Thole would be a nice package worth giving up TDA, Syndergaard, and whatever else pieces.

  91. Since some people (though not here, at least not lately) have brought up the spectre of Young-for-Loaiza, I thought I’d have a look and see just how bad that trade actually was. After the trade, Young’s best fWARs have been 4.5 and 3.9. Loaiza’s were 7.2 and 4.6–they just happened to have been after he left the Blue Jays. If Loaiza had had his 2003 season (7.2 fWAR, and runner-up for the Cy Young, to Young’s 2.9) in Toronto rather than Chicago, nobody in this city ever would’ve been harping on about how awful that trade was.

    Incidentally, the White Sox signed Loaiza for almost 50% less over two years than the Blue Jays paid him in his last year here. Based on results alone, the bad move the Jays made with Loaiza wasn’t trading Young for him; it was not re-signing him after 2002.

  92. Man, I read half this post trying to reimagine my Stoeten perception. Then I read the byline.

  93. I wish Adam Lind was part of this deal instead..

  94. So how much egg nog ended up in ye olde system, Archi? More importantly, how much rum and/or whiskey ended up accompanying the egg nog?

    Even MORE importantly, did Noah “ninja up” and come through with the beer for Uncle Archie?

  95. Jeff is the man.

    Wicked post Zube Pube!

  96. I don’t think I’ve learned more during an offseason than this one…. Lets see…

    Ontario pit bull ban
    Taxes in Fla
    Jose Reyes’ rapping career
    Josh Johnson’s dad is a Canadian
    The art of the knuckleball
    Missing UCLs
    John Farrell’s value on the market is Mike Aviles
    Old managers not named Cito can come back
    Bug Selig is one slow worker
    How to spell Syndergaard
    Jeremy Jeffress loves the sticky icky
    Darren Oliver’s nickname is Black Magic

    • Does JJ’s dad being Canadian make him Canadian? Just curious if he qualifies for citizenship due to that.

      • No…but I believe he may be allowed to play for Team Canada in the WBC, if he hasn’t previously played internationally for the US.

        Don’t know, but it may make it easier for him to become a Canadian, if he chose to at some point.

        • I ask since I qualify for American citizenship even though I was born in Canada because my dad was born in the States. Just assumed it’s possible the other way too.

          • You can definitely hold both, and I don’t think you can ‘lose’ citizenship by birth from either country.

      • Josh Johnson is likely a Canadian citizen.

        From Wikipedia:

        “Every person born outside Canada after 15 February 1977, who has a Canadian parent at the time of birth, is automatically a Canadian citizen by descent”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Canadian_citizenship_by_descent

        • haha it would be weird if he played for Canada after having been there maybe one time in his life? I think he said he visited Toronto once before

    • Nice summary. You can probably add:

      Arencibia claims he’s the confirmed 2013 starting catcher after THE TRADE, and he was actually right.

    • Loving this trade as a Mets fan!!!
      Sad to see dickey go and jays are getting a great pitcher, competitor and person. But we need a few top level young guys right now, D’arnaud AND syndergaard… That’s crazy, we hit the jackpot !!! Both teams benefit.

    • My Yankee cousins had til they were 21 to decide if they wanted to be Canadians or Americans becase they had a Canadian Mum and an American Dad.. They’re great but they’re Americans..and NFL fans.

  97. 1.72 ERA indoors over the past 3 years?! The dude who operates the roof at the Skydome is going to be looking at some serious overtime this Summer.

  98. Brandon Fayhe forever

  99. Great post Zuber, very funny stuff. Maybe teach that to one of your miserly colleagues.

    Speaking of Stoeten, he must almost be at Whoville by now.

    • Given that Whoville is located within a floating speck of dust upon a clover flower, and apparently moves around, I find it easier to believe that Whoville in already embedded in Stoeten’s weird beard, along with God knows what else.

    • Second the great post comment. This was very enjoyable to read

  100. If the trade goes down as is presently rumoured, the part I don’t understand is Syndegaard and the yet-to-be-named prospects.

    Because it implies that Alderson would have refused trading Dickey & Thole for TDA & Buck. Or perhaps that was the “acceptable” trade he has had on the table for a while but he held out for a little more and got it.

    Either way, I’m ultra excited for this even if it is a bit of an overpay.

    And there is still time in the offseason for AA to trade Buehrle and Romero for Halladay!

    • Jays fans won’t care about D’arnaud or syndergreat when they see what dickey can do every 5th day.

      • This deal is fair for a reigning cy young , only thing I don’t understand is why jays are giving us 5mil towards the buck contract, that seems excessive

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