Oh hey, more of this VTRN LDRSHPPPPPP noise, as the Jays have signed journeyman infielder Mark DeRosa, to presumably fill their right-handed bench coach void. Cue inspiring first bio line from the club’s press release:

DeROSA, 37, batted .188 with five doubles and six RBI in 48 games for the Nationals last season.

They’re giving him $750,000 for this season, with a club option for the same amount in 2014, and have designated Sam “Best Stuff In The Organization” Dyson for assignment to clear room on the 40-man.

For what it’s worth:

Welp. At least he’s good for something– y’know, beyond making Mike McCoy miserable– because the numbers over his past three seasons have been pretty damn fugly.

Granted, he still hits lefties better than Adam Lind, posting a .323 wOBA and 103 wRC+ over the last three years (albeit in just 121 PA), compared to Lind’s .236 and 34. But DeRosa has been about that bad against right-handers, and hasn’t been great in the field when asked to play the outfield or at third base. He’s been OK at second over the three years, in a tremendously small sample, but that’s not the point is it? The point is leadership-y bullshit, and DeRosa is making a mint off his reputation for providing it, and the coincidence that his teams keep making the playoffs.

Talk me off the ledge, Drew:

All statistics are another way of measuring worth.

The same applies for leadership and intangibles. We can dismiss it and laugh it off and whine about the inability to capture and place value on these skills, but the front offices of Major League Baseball teams obviously value them. So “the thinking fan” must as well. If the front office thinks having “veteran presents” in the clubhouse, it’s because they believe it will help the team win more baseball games.

It might not make sense to piss away a roster spot when extracting value from every player on the 25 man but that which a player like Mark DeRosa offers is valuable to someone. The manager, the highest earner, whomever. If Mark DeRosa was the only mascot in the league, then we could wonder if Alex Anthopoulos is off his rocker. But he isn’t (and he isn’t.)

Fair points, all. Though I can’t pretend that I believe that because everyone else is doing it, it must be OK. Most NHL teams have enforcers, too. Doesn’t mean it’s not dumb.

However, given that DeRosa won’t be called on too much, and offers something close to enough from an offensive standpoint to be a useful 25th man on a club with a deeper bench than we’re used to seeing, I can understand choosing him and the experience he can share over someone like McCoy, who’d simply be happy to finally be there, and not able to offer a whole lot more on the field. (Yes, I can accept that there really may be something to that, all else being pretty much equal.)

Mike Wilner of the Rogers-owned Rogers Sportsnet gets to the same nut in an extensive column on the Rogers-owned club’s latest acquisition, that was posted a whole eleven minutes after the press release went out in an email. Man, that guy works fast! Especially since he often tweets that he files his columns with his editors, and they don’t show up for quite a while after that point. Hmmm…

Anywho, since it’s January, I suppose I can get on board with all this. I mean, it’s not like there was some wonderful pool of elite talents vying for this kind of role. It’s just… when August rolls around and we find that the club is actually pressed into using him, or into playing guys when hurt in order to avoid it– not that I can ever think of an example of that sort of thing happening *COUGH* Omar Vizquel *COUGH*– I’m not going to be as kind to the idea as I might be right now.

No, DeRosa certainly didn’t kill his teams the last three years, and the equation has changed a bit for the Jays, to the point where it almost makes sense to not absolutely maximize the sheer on-field talent on the roster, but… colour me a bit skeptical.

Comments (123)

  1. NO! Not the innings vacuum!

  2. Does he have good splits or something?

  3. well he’s better than mike mccoy,

    lots of room to improve from last year, but meh, whatever, lets just play baseball

  4. Um. I don’t get dropping Dyson? I get that they were overly hyping their prospect, but……..

  5. Probably should have saved that speech for game 5

  6. Should of expected some piss on our otherwise tasty cornflakes during the off-season.

  7. Also sign of how dubious a signing it: Wilner is questioning it openly?

  8. Derosa is getting his obligatory Blue Jay playing experience before graduating to the broadcast booth?

    And as for Dyson and having the best stuff in the organization, let’s consider the source of that comment now shall we?

  9. I remember when Mark DeRosa was fantasy baseball material… with the Indians? That was a LONG time ago.

  10. Drew said it best over at GB “Mark DeRosa is the mascot to the stars”

    I read that a whole 5 minutes ago and i’m chuckling still!!!!

    • Yeah, definitely a “clubhouse” pickup. No matter how much you hate/discredit the intangibles in baseball, most winning teams do have these types of character guys. So why not…

      • I’m sure the Jays could have found somebody better for the 25th spot. But it’s not like this is gonna make or break the team.

        • From what I can see, the Angels’ 25th man is Vernon Wells. As far as I can see, at this point, the difference between DeRosa and Wells is only about $20M, so from that perspective, the Jays could have done a lot worse.

          And once more, thank you, LA. Thank you very much.

      • I prefer Character guys who also are good at baseball…. But… I can’t bring myself to get upset over this deal unless Gibby starts giving atbats away to DeRosa.

      • Most NHL teams have enforcers, too. Doesn’t mean it’s not dumb. (Hmmm… think I’ll add this to the post!)

  11. Fire AA.

  12. The last time he was healthy he was a useful player. With a limited number of at bats I think he’s a useful piece. However, I would agree that he’s mostly a clubhouse pickup.

  13. To be honest, i would have rather them used this spot on a platoon partner for lind like baker. However, I dont necessarily blame AA for taking this route.

    • Delmon Young signed with the phillies 750k. Mind you, Young brings a “different” veteran presence, it’s the same money as ponDerosa

      • Associated Press

        Toronto Blue Jays INF Mark DeRosa headed to the 15-day DL for what team officials are calling a “dead” tooth.

  14. They need someone else to give speeches causes stories about the jedi council of knuckleballers are bound to grow stale very early on

  15. I was hoping that Rusty Canz was going to work out for the last spot…oh well. At least Derosa comes cheap…

    • He was already claimed away I believe when they tried to sneak him down to Buffalo.

      • Its too bad…RustyLind would make a reasonable DH.

        • The Yanks claimed him. What is neat is that Russ Canzler might actually be getting lots of AB’s with the Yankees lineup, with injuries to ARod and an all lefty hitting outfield.

  16. “veteran presents”
    I love presents.
    I’m hoping for a bike.

  17. Maybe his main role will be to make “constructive suggestions” to young Mr. Lawrie. If so, it might keep Gibby out of Lawrie’s grill and lead to a longer life span for young Brett.

    As for his bat, it could be very useful….but only if someone else takes it to the plate.

    As for the “what if they need him in August or in case of a long term injury” concerns, with a $750K contract, he can be DFA’d in a heartbeat and a more suitable guy acquired.

    • Here’s hoping. I don’t want to see any “I told you so”s from Stoets come late summer.

  18. Did we see how this worked out last year with Omar Vizquel?

    Why the 40ish year old that is terrible offensively a necessity to this club?

    • There is a big difference between the two. Omar was on a farewell tour so they couldn’t just dump him without a bunch of PR backlash. There would be no such problem with DeRosa.

  19. Ya, but can he pitch?

  20. So I guess we’re not signing Michael Bourne…

  21. guys like this make me wish it was a 27-man roster. can MLB hurry up and do that soon?

  22. So is there a chance the jays might look at a thome type invite to spring contract left yet or not?

  23. DeRosa in 2012 (stats can be fun and misleading)

    .364 avg in September (when the Jays will be finalizing their division title in 2013)
    .400 against the pitching staff of the SanFran and .364 against NYM (look out TB)
    .500 hitter in the lead off position (look out Reyes)
    .500 with bases loaded (Reggie, Reggie…)
    .389 as a pinch hitter

    • Those are fun and misleading!

      • yeah, definitely cherry pickin’…we all know he’s there to add some glue to a lot of different personalities and that’s difficult to measure value around in my opinion…his track record suggests he wouldn’t be an Omar in that department, which I think is the point

  24. Even if I buy into the DeRosa signing, why haven’t the Jays DFA’d McGowan yet? I don’t think Dyson will be Mariano Rivera, but where’s the downside in putting McGowan through waivers?

    • Because he’s not un-injured yet, so they don’t have to. If McGowan is ever healthy again, though, I have no doubt he’ll be optioned and clear waivers – I don’t see anyone picking up that poison pill of a contract AA gave him 2 days before his heel/shoulder injury.

      At this point, I think Dustin has to get through 50+innings of injury-free minor league pitching before he should see any MLB action.

  25. What does Egypt predict this guy will do in 345 games next season?

  26. Don’t really understand this ‘clubhouse signing’ considering how well that went last year with Omar Vizquel. The guys he was there to mentor/rub off on in the infield: 1) took the field with a gay slur on their face written in his first language 2) threw a batting helmet at an umpire 3) ran into outs on the basepaths. Vizquel himself took a run at the record for most plate appearances without an extra-base hit and then aired the team’s dirty laundry instead of addressing issues directly with his teammates/management.

    Give me a piece of shit that hits right-handed well for slightly more anyday. Delmon Young/Scott Hairston/etc. Clubs overvalue intangibles IMO. Clubhouse issues typically spawn as a result of losing which stem from having a average to below average team talent-wise. Put the most talented team on the field and worry about veteran bullshit if the team fails to show up by June.

    • 1) Because Vizquel was unsuccessful on the field and in the clubhouse in 2012, all veterans are therefore useless and unnecessary? Have you considered that maybe he was just a shitty leader.

      2) Delmon Young will make about 10 times what the Jays signed DeRosa for. Nobody is saying the Jays valued him more than a productive player… we just have no idea how much Rogers was willing to spend on the 25th roster spot.

      3) Have you played competitive sports? Having played on a collegiate team throughout college, I have seen first-hand how a team with tremendous talent but no leadership can seriously underachieve.

      • +1

      • Agree with #1 and #3, but you clearly overestimated how much Young would sign for. Knowing now that the Jays could get Young for exactly what they paid DeRosa (assuming he’d be willing to sign with Toronto), which of the two would you choose?

        • Also agree with 1 and 3, except if he can contribute. We already have cheerleaders that come out for the seventh inning stretch.Still need power Rbat, dh/pinch hit. I don’t want Delmon Young either Philly took a flyer{man they suck} but Gomes would of been fine…

          A trade for Goldschmidt would be too much to ask for so I’ll settle for Gaby Sanchez for RDH/bench 25th roster spot.

        • Oh man, you guys are right, I didn’t realize Young’s value had depreciated so much. But still, no need for a racist head-case with a sub-.300 OBP on this team.

    • One difference between Vizquel and DeRosa is that DeRosa has more of an inspirational clubhouse guy rep while Vizquel has had his share of confrontations over the years (right, Jose Mesa?) and didn’t have the same sterling clubhouse rep.

  27. He’s battled injuries for a while now mostly wrist problems. I think it was only three years ago when he killed lefties maybe him and lind can go have seasons of three years past to bring the Jays to a world series. Maybe a guy like Derosa can get guys motivated it’s a long season. In reality he doesn’t probably add much but at least he can play in the OF and IF., granted it’s poorly defense everywhere.

  28. Does he mean #GlueGuys in the racehorse sense?

  29. I don’t know that you can knock this signing with it being less than 1m for this year and then there’s an option if there’s any sort of performance there. I like it.

  30. Most analysts is baseball’s top concern with Toronto is team chemistry. I don’t get it, but people who get paid to know baseball seem to think its a legitamite problem.

    That being the case, Toronto just took a big step forward in solving their “biggest issue”. So yay, I guess.

  31. DeRosa is Hunter Pence except old and also bad at baseball.


  32. inside info on the Nats??

  33. Well maybe this isn’t so bad. I mean can’t have too much motivation right? On thing in baseball that gets me is the lack of appearing to want to win…if that sounds right.

  34. He’s the 25th guy, so regardless, its a minor move. If the Jays are forced to use him in any kind of significant role, its likely the season has gone down the shitter anyways, so I don’t think that should be considered an issue. I get the leadership side of it, especially since Ponderosa has spent recent season with the highly successful Nats and Gigantes. He will bring that winning mentality to the clubhouse. The pitchers have their leader in Buehrle, the hitters didn’t necessarily have a similar voice until now.

    Since there likely won’t be another Vladdy Guerrero experiment anytime soon, and since its the final roster spot, I don’t mind it.

    I’m still glad that Oliver can’t bluff for shit. Nice try, Black Magician. See you in Dunedin.

  35. Wow is there ever some straight up fucking morons in here, more so since the Dickey signing. Are you people THAT spoiled now after only a month or so that you have to talk shit on a signing like this?

    This is an extremely experienced and versatile player that has been on some incredibly successful teams and he is coming to Toronto to be a mentoring bench player and a leader in the clubhouse.

    Sure he is a bandaid when teams try to use him in a full time role but in a bench role what could it possibly hurt to pay this guy 750K to play the corner outfield positions, all the infield positions, be a pain in the ass to lefties and help with the bumps in the road down the stretch?

    EVERY team needs a guy like this.

    • Probably the type of guy who could cooly tell Lawrie to simmer the fuck down on stealing home with the leagues biggest power hitter at the plate.


      • I love how people think Lawrie is some loose cannon with no brain who will continue to be a liability on the base paths and continue to be a hot head. You don’t think Lawrie is intelligent enough to learn from his mistakes? I think he’ll be just fine, and the DeRosa move is not targeted at him (not that you were suggesting that), its because he’s played on so many great fucking teams, and thats never a bad person to throw into the mix.

        Im taking the kids to Ponderosa steak house tonight to celebrate.

        • Not necessarily. Lawrie has been said to have a god complex type attitude by people that have played with him and coached him in the past. He was once deemed an uncoachable player. There are players around the sporting world that dont learn from mistakes because they view everything they do as perfect.

          Having veterans around to show him how its done and help out is never a bad thing. I believe he will learn from the base running errors but what about when it comes time for someone to speak to him about the hitch / pump in his swing that has almost virtually stolen his homerun production?

          Anyways… Derosa = great for this team.

        • Ponderosa is still around?

    • Wow your my hero BM, i just arrived 2 sec ago from the bandwagon, yup 25th player insults how enlightened. can you please be my mentor, I’ll fetch you the paper and coffee every morning, and will read you the boxscores of every game evan the west coast one’s cause I know which paper to getz…

      • What the fuck are you even talking about ass hat?

        • what the fuck is an ass hat??? ive heard of fart beards, titty picklers, and bush mufflers but never heard ass hat. i think jeff frye is an ass hat cause i dont like the cut of his jib!!

  36. I seen Gibby on a rerun of Hee Haw last night, mutherfucka plays a mean banjo.

  37. Dont like this move at all but I will just go ahead and trust A.A.

  38. I can’t believe we signed him instead of Young. Wow this team would’ve been good with Delmon Young. Did AA just not even bother to call Young’s agent? I have trouble believing that, but also can’t believe that he know Young would take under a million and decide to look elsewhere. Fuck that would’ve rocked

    • Young is a horrible human being

      • True, and we all saw how his character issues sunk the Tigers last year. If only they’d replaced him with someone like Omar Vizquel.

    • It’s an interesting comparison though. We need a RH bat for the end of our bench. Two guys sign on the same day for a base salary of $750K.

      One is a 27 year old, limited positional versatility, with a career .284/.317/.425, career .307/.341/.483 against LH and last year hit .308/.333/.500 against LH. He’s also almost universally thought of as an a-hole and clubhouse cancer.

      The other is a 37 year old, lots of positional versatility, with a career .270/.340/.412 , career .294/.368/.475 against LH, but who only hit .225/.326/.325 against LH last year. He’s also thought of as a great clubhouse guy.

      Which one would you rather have, all things considered?

      • Young for me. Give me the best players possible, especially when the team still has holes. Platoon for Lind was more important than signing PonDeRosa

        • You don’t think maybe Young would pick the Phillies over the Jays because he’d play a lot more on that team?

  39. My general feeling on these types of “character” signings is that the people who turn this into a dichotomy are insufferable.

    I can’t stand Pat Tabler acting like it makes this gigantic difference.

    And I can’t stand people who act like it makes very little if any difference simply because it can’t be quantified or easily seen from the outside.

    Mark Derosa may serve a purpose as a RH versatile 25th man with allegedly good clubhouse presence. For $750,000 with a club option.

    Omar Vizquel may not have “worked out”, but people seemed to believe John MacDonald “worked out” for $1.5 mil a year.

    To quote the great Alex Rios, who gives a fuck.

  40. Why not just hire Mark DeRosa as a coach if his clubhouse presence means so much. Not big on this signing, but it’s the 25th guy, so whatever.

  41. Just like the All-Star team bullshit final roster vote horse crap nonsense, they should let us Jays fans vote on the final roster spot, from a group of misfits who would fit the 25th man type of role. So no stars would be eligible, only feel good fan friendly guys who provide that intangible, unquantifiable, indubious extra value that only a 25th man could.

    Potential candidates would include DeRosa, Vizquel, Johnny Mac, Vladdy Guerrero, Mookie Wilson, the Ice Cold Beer guy who got fired a couple seasons ago, JYD (former Raptor), Tie Domi, Mike Pinball Creepishly Way Too Positive Clemons and the high energy drummer who plays outside the Dome before every home game. Love that guy.

  42. Whatever. My dream was to fill the last spot with Manny Ramirez, but DeRosa has hit lefties quite well in his career and seems to bring the intangibles in any case.

  43. First off, been reading this site for a while. Love the Jays, but I have to admit, haven’t made enough time to watch the games, growing family and all. But must say, will make more of an effort to get some games in this season. Now that that’s out of the way.

    I like the signing, just lots of ups on it, with not a lot to lose. And what type of stud did we think we were going to get to be the last option to go into a game, maybe a couple times a month? Hmm? So why not, and if he doesn’t make the opening day roster and the outright him, maybe he will come on as a “club house coach”. Can they make that position?

    • PVR works magic when trying fit in games around family. Lets you fast forward those commercials, Buck and Tabby comments and if we have another CoCo on the team and you just can’t bare to watch.

      Agreed on the decent upside with not alot to loose. But not too sure on that whole ‘clubhouse coach’ thing. What does he do? fetch red bulls and give pre/post game pep talks? I see much more value in hiring a team of cheerleaders to give a bunch of happy ending massages pre/post game.

  44. Nice to see that Ray Lewis has decided to play another year…

  45. you poindexters who have never played a fuckin sport in your lives, yet are sure that intangibles do nothing to help a team, make me shake my fuckin head. get a clue

  46. Clubhouse/random infielder signing, like Omar Vizquel or Kevin Millar…

    Nah, whatever, DeRosa could be alright.

  47. Another bridge partner for Slick Dickey and the Black Magician?

  48. There are several photography programs obtainable, prior to you make a decision which a single to go to it is critical that you look at out testimonials and references. other options are also available in the market among them you can compare the best regarding features and costs.. This is why conceptual photography is so often used in the design industry. In case you are a new comer to this field and want to learn more about it, you can very well do it.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *