It’s not that I don’t believe that the Jays’ budget has already stretched the ol’ payroll parameters about as far as they can go, but when they’re still handing out $750K each to fucking Henry Blanco and Mark DeRosa, clearly there’s something still left for, say, Brandon Lyon?

Cue Jon Heyman:

Not horribly surprising. Yet, also, not something I’m real keen on expounding a shit-tonne of words on at quarter after five on a Friday afternoon.

So… uh… there’s that.

Comments (71)

  1. Poop dawg

  2. If it’s Lyon on a 2 mil or less, 1 year deal, who can complain?

  3. Please AA don’t sign valverde
    - signed all jays fans

  4. Go home. You have worked too hard this week.

  5. This could be true, or this could be Heyman drumming up the market for a Scott Boras client…

  6. At this point, it doesn’t really make sense to not spend a little extra to sign Lyon and solidify the bullpen.

    It’s like buying a high-end luxury car and then saying that you have to save money by putting 87 grade fuel in it.

  7. What would you expect him to do? Sit back with his feet up or go on vacation? AA is always on the phone, always looking to improve. Knowing the market is part of that.

  8. He’ll have another BP arm within two weeks.

    • Signing. Bourn would be stupid no?

      • incredibly so. Bourn is goong to be the next Chone Figgins. And besides, if we want a great defense/elite speed/no bat/high strikeout CF, we ‘ve already got one (who’s younger, faster with a better arm) in AAA we can play for nothing.

        Why would you pay good money for a guy whos entiregame relies on his speed (sb’s and defense are both going down the tubes when he slows down) whose on the wrong side of 30? We all know speed is the first thing to go and if his speed drops to merely “good” he becomes Rajai Davis Lite. No thanks.

  9. Outfield is completely solidified.

    Even Boni and Davis are very capable if Rasmus shoots his foot off hunting chickens or Melk Man hits a nerve with a dirty syringe

    • Don’t forget about gose/Sierra too

    • Ahh.chicken hunting.
      Brings back memories.
      I remember the great chicken hunt of ’54.There was a fiesty one we tracked for three days,through the snow, in the Laurentians.Laid out some rooster urine and deer antler spray to flush her out but she didn’t cooperate.I think it was the first lesbian chicken we’d ever hunted. Luckily Bubba had a homemade concoction of “hens in heat” that we could lay down and sure as shit,she came out into the open.
      I’m rambling so I’ll leave it for another day.
      First Jays ST game is Feb 24th.

    • When you put it this way I actually do believe the BP may be the biggest weakness depth wise. Especially since we’ve got supersub DeRosa for the infield.


    • Yup

    • His overall point that WAR is useful but can’t be relied upon soley is unarguable. But he built up as tore down a shit load of straw men in the process, while all the while seeming to not quite grasp the purpose or the known issues with the stat.

    • Interesting article. Remember the recent MVP debate? WAR mongerers supported Trout over Cabrera, saying that the Triple Crown Winner’s total WAR was far below that of Trout. Thus, Cabrera was not deserving of the MVP nod.

      I suppose you can debate the MVP issue until the cows come home. In my view, either player deserved the honour. Trout will get his MVP soon enough.

      I do remember a quote from Jason Parks on the value of WAR and who in his mind was most deserving of the MVP award. In supporting Cabrera, Parks said that as a pitcher, he would rather face Trout and not Cabrera. In short, he went with the hitter he deemed the most dangerous.

      • WAR was what everyone who supported Cabrera harped on.

        The folks who correctly felt Trout was the MVP recognized that while Miggy was a slightly better hitter, Trout more than made up the difference with his speed and defense.

        Parks is right that a pitcher likely feared Miggy more, but opposing hitters would much rather hit a ball to Miggy than to Trout and catchers and outfielders would much rather be trying to catch Miggy on the basepaths than Trout.

        It is the overall better player who should get the MVP which oddly enough is the exact reason Cal Ripken won the 91 MVP over Frank Thomas. The funny thing being Thomas actually came third because Cecil Fielder had the most homers and RBI despite only having an .860 OPS.

        • This.

        • Jayfan34 has it right. There’s more to the game than just hitting, and Trout plays a far better defensive game than Miggy ever will.

          Also, their hitting was nearly a wash. Funny enough, they both had 166 wRC+, and their wOBA was only separated by 8 points.

          Should be noted too that Trout played in 12 less games, and had 58 less PA.

          Miggy was deserving to win the MVP, but Trout would have been the more correct choice.

    • My penis is 3 wins above replacement, but he’s been working out so I expect good things this year.

      • Keep up the good work. Practice makes perfect, and you’ll have an all star penis in no time

      • Insanity:
        “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” (Albert Einstein)
        (Don’t let that stop you from keeping the little guy limber, however.)

        Pitchers and catchers report in 10 sleeps.

    • The article is ridiculous. It’s just paying lip service to advanced stats while knocking down straw men in a terrifically ill-informed way– which is precisely why it’s unsurprising that our friend RADAR has decided to hold it up as some kind of validation of his nonsense position.

      WAR was the reason people thought Trout was better than Cabrera? Really?

      Nobody even half serious would ever say that WAR is “THE definitive evaluation of a player’s worth.” It’s a quick and digestible way to try to combine and weigh the stats that best translate into on-field value into a single number, and has great utility because of that. But if anybody ever wanted to go digging into the various components to produce a sound argument that showed something different than the WAR formulas were telling us (like we’ve been doing for two months now when it comes to R.A. Dickey), who on earth would possibly stop them?

      That’s not usually what happens, though. In instances like the Trout-Cabrera thing (I’m not even going to touch the insanity of his mentioning Jack Morris) the people who don’t like what WAR is saying attack it and demonize it. Bizarrely, it’s usually an attack against the concept as a whole, rather than whatever components of it that they think are giving us bad information, since they likely don’t understand that that’s what the stat is in the first place.

      Caple almost seems to get it, and yet completely misfires when he starts talking about mathematical simplicity versus theory and assumption. For one thing, the more simply calculated stats can have just as much noise in them as more esoteric ones. For two, knowing that there is assumption and theory that goes into WAR is exactly why people who grasp the stat would never see it as definitive or something that can’t be quibbled with.

      Wondering how Mike Trout’s defence was calculated and weighed as a component of his WAR is a perfectly valid question for a Cabrera supporter to ask. Knowing those answers won’t ever open the door for Cabrera to come out on top in a rational assessment of the two players in 2012, but it’s a fair question.

      Acknowledging that people who “get” WAR would believe that, however, makes it a whole lot harder to shit on the concept, doesn’t it? Ahhh, but those certain types who absolutely disdain how it questions their precious gut feelings about this stuff need to throw something back in its face, so this is the kind of arguing-in-circles, strawman nonsense that we get.

      • I’ve been trying, for a good 20 minutes, to figure out how to say pretty much exactly that. You must be far less drunk than me.
        He seems to tear down the stat while at the same time pining for a WAR-like stat. His second last paragraph pretty much outlines what WAR tries to capture. It’s not perfect, but it’s a solid attempt on which we can build and create a better understanding of a player’s worth.

        • Well done RADAR you got Stoten responding Saturday night. RADAR WAR Factor 15. Absolutely a great post, but not as good as the Chicken Hunt thing

      • I’d suggest that the people who defend RBIs like Caple are far more parochial than the majority of people who value WAR.

        Yes, some SABR guys act like assholes on the internet. But so do a lot of guys who defend RBIs. Jim Caple, for example.

        Look at any development in any industry. Some people are patient and willing to explain their viewpoint to others. Some people are assholes. This is not baseball specific.

        As for the MVP debate, one need not resort to WAR and understanding how it is calculated.

        It’s very simple. Cabrera was a slightly better hitter in 2012. Trout was a vastly superior defensive player at a premium position. Trout was a vastly superior baserunner. Hence, Trout was significantly more valuable in 2012 while playing 22 less games.

        • Why is it that the Egg heads defend their position by simply attacking the waekest point of an argument – forget the MVP, it was merely an illustrative point and not worth mentionion. Caple made many sound points, including the compexity of calculating WAR. I enjoyed the post and will make my my judgement on a players value and traditional stats that I value and the WAR stat to validate my assessment.

      • @ Stoeten

        You mad bro?
        Where do you see my opinion on the article?
        I thought it was interesting and might evoke a discussion.
        But for a guy who loves to point out my straw man arguments, you’re very good at creating them yourself.
        Perhaps you can show where I’ve used the article to ” hold it up as some kind of validation of his nonsense position.”

      • Stoeten, I think you nailed it on the head. The point I was trying to make is that WAR is too often used as a sword to attack a player or a shield to defend a player.

        The article is interesting only because it shows how WAR can be manipulated like any other stat, rightly or wrongly.

        For the record, I would have voted for Trout in the MVP race. The whole Jason Parks reference was to illustrate how some writers don’t give a shit about WAR as much as others do.

  10. Melky not playing in WBC so that’s good news?

  11. fact or fiction:

    if you sincerely think bieber is a good musician you have no testicles

  12. Lyle Overbay: sexy enough for the Red Sox?

  13. The best part of Super Bowl is that football talk shuts up and spring training stories are inevitable.

  14. lyon gone to the mets for one year

  15. Lyon would be nice, but I would rather beg for more help from Rogers at the deadline instead of right now.

    The Jays might have a more important hole to plug than 7th inning reliever down the line.

  16. You may grow that long hair out and try to act like a vato. But you still smell like chorizo pig!

  17. Elliott’s tweeted that Jack Morris is the frontrunner to replace Ashby,according to his sources.

  18. okay, Black Magic – get ready for your Ray Lewis-moment; retirement this year, fire up the teammates and fans, paint eye black like Bryce Harper and record the championship – Woooooooo!

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