Kinda says it all, doesn’t it? I mean, I’m not sureĀ why it would say that, but that sure is what the Jays have been taking on baseball fundamentals, and what many fans are taking down the team’s throat right now.

Shit, and it’s kind of justified! If, y’know, often misplaced *COUGH* offence “massive dump”-ing the bed against Chris Tillman *COUGH*

Tonight I can even rationalize sparing you (mostly) the “it’s early” and “shit happens” stuff– even though, y’know, it is and it does. But yes, that was a tough one, albeit an entertaining, if crushingly frustrating, game to watch. They’ll get better, though. There’s pretty much no way that they can’t.


Screengrab via @iammattz.

Comments (108)

  1. But I want them to be better nowwwwwwwwwwwww.

    • *slow clap*

      That’s pretty much the attitude, huh?

      • It really is.

        I’ve been reading some books lately (Thinking Fast and Slow is the most well-known one, though You Are Not So Smart is also good) on the two different parts of our brain.

        The first part has evolved over a long time. It’s intuitive, emotional, fast, and operates largely outside of our own control. The second is slow, deliberative, rational, and takes effort to train and use.

        We all are great at using the first brain. Many of us suck ass with the second.

        So we all feel the “But! But we are stacked! Why don’t we win 140 games!” stuff because it comes naturally, based on expectations and hype (and talent), as well as impatience.

        The ability to zoom out, understand sample size, appreciate the length of the season (etc etc) takes effort. It takes applying our rational brains.

        There are lots of people who are bad at that part. The people better at it also tend to be quieter/slower to jump to conclusions. So you aren’t hearing much from them just yet.

        • @wiper blades.

          I think a big problem is that fans have been waiting for 20 years for a team on paper to be this good.
          I remember the excitement of November after the trades, when the Jays finally became a big market team & stopped having to rationalize every contract move. I remember trying to rationalize what they were doing with Rajai Davis contract to save a few hundred K . Now the team has a 125 million payroll with a key player out till July & its regular lineup playing for 4 days.

          The good news is that the pitching is keeping them in games & the offence has shown some signs of getting better, not tonight though. hopefully the defence can get better .

          This was a good game to watch if you like pitching duels. Tillman was pretty good last year.

        • @ Wiper

          Very well put. It’s hard to rationalize right away that even though a loss like this feels far, far worse than a 9-4 in the 7th inning or whatever, it’s still mathematically equal to any other loss.

        • Good post Wiper.

          Interestingly enough, what you typed also happens to be very similar to the main differences between extroverts and introverts.

  2. Lead off Walk in the 8th to the top of the order and they didn’t even come close to scoring. Brutal.

  3. Anyone see the girl doing the big bird impression in orange behind the 1B dugout?

  4. When are we gonna get to the fireworks factory???? *sobs*

  5. It can’t get worse than this shit, right? This season so far has been some of the worst baseball the Jays have played in years. Haven’t had any luck either for that matter.

  6. What is weird is that the entire team is playing horribly on an individual level….maybe aliens like space jam

    • No it’s just the hitting, pitchers have been pretty damn good, both the starters and especially the bullpen

  7. Happ was pretty good

  8. At this point, there is no where to go but up, we can’t get much worse than this

  9. Group therapy!

  10. You guys like how i erroneously ruled that passed ball on JP a wild pitch such as to elevated Happ’s ERA?

    well, just so happens im related to ricky romero.

  11. No worries we got Dickey tomorrow. ..he can hit right?

  12. The losses sting.

    But the great part is that the team is loaded with players who have proven track records.

    There isn’t a single rookie on the team, So it’s a lot easier to say Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Johnson will pitch better (or have some more luck from the baseball gods) than to expect that from Drabek, Alvarez, Cecil, Jo Jo Reyes etc.

    To me, the defence is the most worrisome thing. Mainly because the Jays don’t have any great options to start at 2B regularly and the fact that they don’t plan on shifting as much this year.

    The first thing is hard to fix. Acquring an everyday 2B (or even a guy who has the potential to do it) isn’t likely to happen this early in the year.

    The second thing, though, is fucking annoying. These defenders need to be put in the best position to succeed. Espescially since there is probably only one position (3B) that has a plus defender. The rest are a bunch of average to below average fielders.

  13. There’s no way they can’t get better? What are you basing this on?

  14. Should Gibby have used Janssen in the 9th?

    • No point in using Casey. Were the Jays planning on scoring any runs?

    • What would it have changed? Kawasaki had an EASY play and fucked it up about as hard as something can get fucked up. I still don’t know why he didn’t just flip to 2nd..

      • Agreed, but eschewing the assumption of predetermined outcomes, using your best reliever greatly reduces the probability of the winning run getting into scoring position. Last thing Casey’s going to do is hit a guy to lead off the inning.

        • Probably the last thing Loup was going to do too. Looking at his career walk rates, dude knows how to command and control the strikezone. As Stoeten is fond of saying, “Shit happens.”

          It sucks now, but in a month I’ll bet the shirt on my back that the Jays will be the main course of the AL East, and not the leftover scraps we’ve been fed so far in the early going.

    • At shortstop, yes as it turns out.

  15. Sooooooo sorrrry fans. Sooooooo sorrryy

    i was about to get ball but then i see GODZIRRA out of corner of eye….take eye off ball.

    you know…..GODZIRRA was coming for me !!!!!

  16. Racist, yet strangely amusing.

    I vote to allow the comment to stay!

  17. Some closed door team meeting may help turn things around? No need this early into the team’s struggles, although from this fan’s naive take on things, the team’s reliance on power would’ve come at the expense of contact and obp. The pitching seems to be as advertised, go Jays!

  18. No problem, this team will get rolling soon. In the heat of summer these bad first three weeks will be but a distant memory.

    But it will suck if they end up 2 games out of a playoff spot. Then the memories will come flooding back.

    • That could happen, but the “it’s early ” meme would have to be retired. On the other hand any loss hurts.

  19. I dunno, Im a fan and ill watch every game all year regardless…..I hnestly think that this team as its currently constructed just isnt that good. They def have some high end talent, but they also have some huge flaws and a lot of low end talent too.

    -29 run differential? I know good teams have had similar records in the past due to some bad luck and have come around. But have ANY contenders ever had the combination of being beaten so often and so badly, before turning it around?

    My guess would be no. Basebal is a game of inches and so good teams can go through bad stretches of 20 games or so where theyre just not getting breaks. But thats not the case with us. Were just getting flat out outplayed, by a good margin, by everybody.

    • It’s actually the opposite. 20(?) of those runs came from 2 games. We’ve lost 1-run games against the Indians, Red Sox, Royals, White Sox and now Orioles. Win two of those and we’d be sitting at .500.

      Tonight, the Orioles scratched out 2 runs from poor fundamental baseball by the Jays. Our pitching is keeping us in games but we’re just not getting the run support consistently.

      • I love when idiots trot out the “we lost so many one-run games bullshit”.

        And if we’d won “just” 20 one-run games last year, we would’ve won the World Series.

        Good teams win those games, shit teams lose them. The Blue Jays lose them from 1994 to 2013.

    • To further that point…..its not like the offense has shown flashes of anything good. We went from bad with Reyes to horrible without him (less then 3 runs/game since he got injured). Do any true good hitting teams get completely shut out for 20+ games? I dont think you can keep a truly good hitting team so far down for so long.

      Im not talking about a bad 20 game stretch where you just dont get the biunces and end up going 5-15 or whatever. That happens. But to be so throughly dominated (mostly by not elite pitchers) I dont think is common.

      Thank god our outching seems to have turned around, because I think without them our record would be a lot worse.

      • I feel like we lead the league in outching!

        But for reals Rob, you seem reasonable: take heart! Starting pitching and bullpen have been dominant. In spite of what you’re seeing, this offense cannot remain below league average. I guarantee it’ll be above average for the 3 months Reyes is back and possibly sooner. Things are looking up given the strength the pitching has shown!

  20. Zaunie’s having a tough night on Twitter tonight after his “zaunese. the official language of misogynists worldwide” tweet earlier tonight. If only the haters knew about his charitable work and dedication to the community.


    Uh, about that, yeah…

    • Zaun is a professional troll. He doesnt mean half the things he says..and the other half are wrong.

    • “Zauntorage”

      ffs. I wish Rogers/Zaun would stop trying to make Zaun a thing. Hes never going to be a thing.

      Don Cherry happened organicly. Theyre trying to manufacture something, and its stupid.

      • Zaun > Don Cherry, but that’s not saying much

        • #1 Zaun is far from > Cherry. If you’re not a hockey fan than maybe you could get a pass, but Don Cherry has done more for the game and knows more about the game than any human on earth.

          #2 Zauntorage girls LOL what a joke. A bunch of whores basically.

          • What exactly, has Don Cherry ever done for hockey?

            • LOL really? Do you want me to start with the junior level or just NHL? Not the place to discuss it really. If you don’t know it’s probably a waste of my time anyhow.

              • You’re right that it’s not the place to discuss. let’s just say I’m not one that is happy the CBC and NHL pushed him as the mascot of Canadian Hockey.

  21. Maybe if the Angels keep struggling we can get Pujols off of them?

    …then we could trade our team to the Dodgers at the end of the season and start again next year

  22. I’m still calling World Series. You can quote me in November.

    These Jays are too good not to turn this around. They’re not defined by this record anymore than that Jays team a few years back that went 28-14 by late May, and then faded into oblivion.

  23. How do you think tabler or buck would react if they read even one page of these threads? you think they would be forced to rethink their lives? become introspective? or do you think they would look at the title of the blog and feel as if we are the idiots?

    • “How do you think tabler or buck would react if they read even one page of these threads?”

      Tabler would compliment Stoeten on how big and strong his blogging is before declaring that Zubar blogs “The Right Way”.

  24. Does ortiz serve any purpose in the bullpen… Rather have somebody who can get some quality outs in a close game. There is no way in hell anybody would feel comfortable with him in a close game. He serves no purpose, get someone who does and maybe loup doesnt have to pitch an inning and 1/3 every second day

    • The bullpen is the last thing we should be worried about right now.

      • Offense will come around as long as they stop trying to hit hr’s on every pitch and start going up to the plate with a better approach (jose, edwin) but by the time mid season comes around the bullpen could be in deep sh*t with their workload thanks to the starters inability to go deep into games and lack of depth as of right now

        • But Ortiz is there to be a mop-up guy specifically to save the bullpen in blowouts. Kind of get the gist of what you’re saying though, it feels like Loup’s going 1+ IP every other game or so.

          There is no way Gibby is going to use Ortiz in any sort of high-leverage situation.

    • Being a professional pinata that takes a beating when games get out of hand is a perfectly reasonable and valuable purpose.

  25. I want to see a glimmer of hope that this team iant as bad as it looks. By that i mean a 3 or 4 game win streak. The rays and angels had similarly slow starts over the first 15 games but have been on win streaks lately. Those are teams expected to be AL contenders along with the jays. I really question how good the offense is. I see obp as a fundamental problem that wont improve overnight. Especially when you have hitters like boni, jpa, and davis who have no clue what to do at the plate. Granted, its early but this is brutal baseball.

    • The way this team is/was constructed, those top 4 hitters have to be carrying the bottom 5. There is no reason we should be expecting >300 OBP from our 5-9 hitters based on historical performances. They’ll surprise us every once and a while… maybe they’ll even get on a hot streak. But if those top 4 hitters aren’t hitting, we’re going to really fucking feel it.

      • Id say less than. 300 is a little low unless were talking about jpa. But how many hitters are capable of reaching a solid obp of .350 in this lineup? 4? 5? Thats a problem.

        • 4-5 players capable of a .350 OBP is a huge upgrade over what the Jays have had in the past.

          If the pitching can hold up the way it looks on paper, 4-5 guys with a .350+ OBP is all the Jays will need, as long as Rasmus, Bonerface and Aaron Cibia don’t completely shit the bed (again).

          • I’d be fucking thrilled if ramsus could even get a .330 obp. JPA getting to .300 is just as likely maicier izturis hitting 20 bombs.

      • I haven’t looked it up but I doubt many teams have a majority of hitters with .350 OBPs! Also, Rasmus and Lind have been putting together some good at bats. Bonifiasco has been terrible, but don’t forget he basically missed all of last season. Izturis is the one I have a bad feeling will be a black hole all season – him and Aaron CeeYaBia.

        • This.

          You have to adjust your expectations so much because offense has declined from what it once was. I think the average OBP in the AL is something like .317.

        • @ Gman

          Last year 10 teams had an OBP of .330 or higher. Yankees had fiver players over .350; Red Sox fiver players over .345; Giants four players over .340; etc, etc. This is just a cursory look at the data and unfortunately Fangraphs applies 2013 rosters to 2012 data when you go to player profiles so it’s skewed. But if league average is .320 I would say for a team to be decent offensively you would need around 3 guys at around .350 and quite a few around the .330 mark. I think Reyes, Bautista, Melky and EE can OBP more than .350 which averages the team to around the .330 mark (which is elite) when you take into consideration the .300 – .325 everyone else will put up.

    • +2 man. The odour coming from them on offense is worse that week old chicken ribs from KFC. Most of them look very overrated at this point. They areplaying very bad baseball in many respects, and we got on Farrell for letting it get out of hand and not nipping it in the bud. You know, bad baserunning by LAwrie, Sierra not weraing glasses and losing balls in the sky. Well, fukin DAvis and Boni have been doing that too and fukin Gibbons keeps playing the cunts so some of this is on Gibbons. Fuk when Boni and Davis are out there together it brings back barfy recollections I had when I used to see Davis and Corey “wrong way” patterson out there 2 years ago FFS

      • Give Gibbon Ape a bit of slack man. What choice does he have? Izturis had to sit after that horseshit performance yesterday. Davis had to play with Bautista’s injury – and he acquitted himself just fine. So what the fukk is Gibbons supposed to do??

        What I find interesting/amazing is how bad Izturis has been in the ABCs of hitting – didn’t the genius manager Sciocia teach him how to get a lead off double over to 3rd??

  26. That’s my favourite picture ever.

    ‘Cause that kid is about to go all barehand on your ass.

    That sounded mad sexy.

  27. I like the patience, and the realism in equal measure. With how terrible the Jays have played, it’s great they’re a couple close losses from .500… That’s what talent does, it keeps thing from getting out of hand during the bad times.

    Having said that, there are already things to be legitamitely concerned about at this point:

    1) the defense in general
    2). 2nd base
    3). dH
    4). Josh Johnson
    5). Ricky Romero
    6). Team OBP & approach at the plate

    I think the defense can be cleaned up (I’d argue we miss butters) but items 2 through 6 were all question marks going into the season and thus far have gone south. I’m not sure they’ll get all of them turned around without personnel moves.

    • Funny, my take is the exact opposite – I can see 2nd being a shitshow all year long and therefore the defense. I’m ok with #s 3-6.

      • Not really the opposite, I think we agree mostly. I think JJ, defense, and maybe even Ricky will come around eventually. But you’re right about 2B and I also think DH and OBP will be replacement level all year outside of two or three players. This team is, and has been a team that puts mistakes in the bleachers but does little else. They’re doomed to fail against quality pitching.

  28. So today on the podcast they were basically trashing the 45 thousand plus fans from cheering and going nutz until the team actually did something.

    well good on the fans. Its one thing to spend most of the podcast every week trashing the small sample size idiots…although that grows weary after a while, but why should fans have to cheer like morons when the team is playing like shit?

    they paid their money and fuck, ,you trash them if they boo, you trash them if they say nothing. what the fuck.

    you went off on beeston when he basically said ‘come to the games..and then well spend money’

    well the fans are saying..do something..anything positive and we will cheer. but if you require their cheers to improve your performance, despite the fact that you are

    1. a professional

    2. paid handsomely to fucking perform..

    then you got big problems.

    • @Boni.

      Aren’t Toronto fans for all sporting events in general more reactive than proactive?

      They cheer after a good play, but don’t know when to encourage chees.

      I don’t think the rest of fans should be blamed for the few that throw beer on the players.

    • I agree. All of these online fucks think they have the right to tell fans how to act. LOL, you pay $50+ for a ticket, $11 a beer, $20 parking, $35 in food…but you better not boo anyone or you’re not a real fan. You better not get upset when the team is playing like shit, or you don’t understand the game.

      Funny thing is, I’m not even a boo bird, but I have no problem with it. Now the fucking morons throwing paper airplanes are an embarrassment to our city, but unfortunately they are apparently allowed to stay.

  29. yeah this team could get a lot worse. They can’t hit shitty pitching. They missed CC, verlander, scherzer, got what 2 hits vs shields? 1 run vs lester and masterson.

    And the chemistry seems real bad. Too many latin players signing their stupid lo vista. Is this high school? It’s like last year with yunel’s eyeblack. Players need to start acting professionally.

  30. congrats to the jays and astros for 1st to give up 100 runs!

  31. same old bullshit calls…a couple early ones were not even close. i saw dirt (and a lot of it) b/w the ball and the plate on one called strike.

  32. Does anyone realize that we have a line up of one year wonders, a crazy youngster, an underwhelming, offensively challenged CF, utility players, a SS who although is a superstar, can’t stay healthy, an ego maniac who has strung together a couple good years, but now thinks he knows more then the umps, and a catcher who thinks he is an all-star. We are using a patchwork system at second base, rather then get a second baseman in the off-season. Edwin is not going to replicate last years success. Rasmus is never going to break out. Arencibia is what he is, an average catcher with some power, who thinks he is a true all-star, Davis who is quick, but shouldn’t be playing everyday. Reyes, who is a joy to watch, when healthy…Lawrie, plays with reckless abandonment, but goes a little to far.

    I love this team, but if it wasn’t for the pitching, which has come around, God knows where they would be. This team is offensively challenged, and will continue to be so all season long. Runs will come in bunches, or not at all. That’s how it is. There are no players on this team who are going to hit for average, save for Reyes. No one. Bautista and Arencibia can hit for power, but Edwin won’t do it again. Lind is hopeless, Rasmus is hopeless. Maicier and Benny are utility players at best. Lawrie may turn into a star, or he may not. Just because he plays with the dial turned up, doesn’t mean he’s going to break out in a big way. He did nothing to overly impress me last year.

    …But hey, what do I know. I could be dead wrong. We shall see.

  33. that was pretty much a lunch bag let down last night. It may be early and the Jays may go on a 40 game winning streak yet, but man it would be nice to see some errorless baseball for a change.

  34. At 2nd i think the says could swap over kawasaki when reyes gets back and dump izi to a nl team.

    I also think the bs we were sold about luis improving hitter in AAA was just that. The says have the same problem as last year not hit for 5 games then explode for 1 and repeat.

    SP is coming around and i find it funny the BP has been more consistent than both and that was supposed to be the weakness this year…

  35. At this point who do you keep, Izturis or Kawasaki when Reyes comes back? I lean towards Kawasaki. He may have worse career numbers, but he`s cheaper and the Jays are going to need every penny to augment this offence.

    • The contract for izturis means that he stays

    • Keep both. Dump DeRosa.

      • They don’t get this offense and team going there going to be dumping more than Derosa.
        I think things are quiet til the end of April, if the shit show is still on then, then some moves will be made.
        Unfortuantely, with Izturis on a 3/10m deal he ain’t going anywhere unless the jays eat about 7m. Don’t think AA would want to present that option to the BJs Board

        • They will never dump derosa this year because of the optics it will create. How will we ever get a gritty, gutty, knows how to win veteran mascot to sign with us if he thinks we might dump him when in need of an actual able bodied MLB player?

  36. Totally frustrating loss. Still love this team and I know things will turn around.

    BTW I can’t stand Chris Davis. He’s just horrible and somehow he manages to get an RBI and score the winning run. Damn Orioles!

  37. How is this post categorized under Awesomeness?

    • Post was about someone bringing a sign that says “MASSIVE DUMPS” to a ballgame – could there be anything more awesome?

  38. glass half full – we showed that we can roll with a playoff team from last year

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