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Drew and I got a rather interesting email from a reader today, who had happened to be listening to a Cleveland game on radio last night, as the club’s broadcasters absolutely went off on the Toronto Blue Jays, calling the club out for its smugness after their splashy off-season, for the coronation-like atmosphere at the Rogers Centre on Opening Day, and for the treatment John Farrell received on his way out the door.

The first couple things might actually be entirely fair criticisms– they claim a member of the Jays’ organization told them the club would be in the playoffs a minimum of three times in the next five years– but John Farrell’s treatment? From the Blue Jays? The hell?

Check out the audio itself, as well as a transcript, after the jump…

“Guy #1,” is the play-by-play guy, Tom Hamilton, making “Guy #2″ analyst Jim Rosenhaus. Have a listen:

Guy 1: When does the countdown begin for John Gibbons to get fired a second time up in Canada? 8-0 Red Sox in the 7th. Mike Napoli’s hit 2 homers.

John Farrell has Boston at 18-8. Best record in majors.  Red Sox drilling Toronto 8-0 in the 7th.

The Blue Jays can’t lose enough.  Boy the smug attitude they had when we were in Canada to open the season, it was like a coronation.  “Yeah, I guess we gotta play 6 months of baseball but everyone knows what what we did in the off season makes us the greatest team in the history of baseball.”

Guy #2: It was amazing after the first 2 games of the season and they were asking Gibbons about if he was worried about the season and it was just two games in at that point.

Guy #1: Yeah they’ll be deep into their Labbatt’s in about half an hour. The ice is just starting to thaw in Canada and they’re already mathematically eliminated.  Obviously they’re not going to be mathematically eliminated but if they lose tonight they are 9 and a half games out of first , and you’re basically one month into the season.  The old adage that you can’t win the pennant in April or on May 1st, but you sure can lose it.

Guy #2: What has to be concerning is their pitching has really struggled and they were counting on that to be a strong suit. It sounds like RA Dickey is hurting right now.

Guy #1: Mark Buehrle has not been very good coming back to the American League. We had a member of the blue jays organization tell us, Opening Day!, that in the next 5 years the Blue jays will be in the playoffs a minimum of 3 times and the world series twice. That was before they had played one game and this was a member of the blue jays organization.

Guy #2: Confidence was not a problem.

Guy #1: You know though, Buck Martinez, the outstanding television broadcaster, and former manager in Toronto said, “Look, as Herb [Score, longtime voice of the Clevelands] used to say ‘This is why we play the games’ but as great as it looks on paper it hardly ever works in baseball, doing what Toronto did in the off season.”  Basically go out and try to buy a title.

Guy #2: And the fact that they were trying to do it with players that Miami tried it with the year before and then got rid of after their disaster.

Guy #1: Then again, it is only May 1st, And they certainly can get hot, but we’ll be rooting against them.

Guy #2: Keep those cards and letters coming folks, from north of the border.

Guy #1: Nice people up there, but.. what they did to John Farrell was a travesty. Guess that’s where my bitterness comes from. They threw John Farrell under the bus. They blamed john for everything including their current medical plan in Canada.  And now John has Boston in first with the best record in baseball. But the shots they took at John Farrell this off season, were way below the belt.

Like… seriously? I mean, if you’re going to be dicks, guys, at least have the common courtesy to not be laughably off-base– y’know, about the Farrell stuff that is, though, as an ex-member of the Cleveland organization, maybe they’ve heard some of his one-sided pissing and moaning? But, you know what, also about the whole “buying a championship” nonsense too. Didn’t Cleveland spend way more in free agency this year than the Jays did? Or was that my imagination? Also… I just… I don’t even know. Like, WTF, Cleveland?

 

Image via Smithsonian Magazine. Crotch grab in the direction of reader Ryan (aka @handyarrow) for the transcript, and commenter Jim In Ohio for alerting him to it.

Comments (97)

  1. Laughable.

  2. Is this the same guy that lost his shit last year when adam lind hit a homer in cleveleand, after which he blasted the Indians, then he mimed Lind waving his arms through with a shit eating grin on his face? i wish i had a video

  3. I’m sad for them.

  4. Umm…what?

  5. “The ice is just starting to thaw in Canada and they’re already mathematically eliminated. Obviously they’re not going to be mathematically eliminated”

    We’re smrt.

  6. “Buck Martinez, the outstanding television broadcaster”
    annnnnd scene.

  7. Some of this is fair. Til the end. Farrell was with the Indians for a while; it is no surprise their sympathies lie with him.

    • Yup. Farrell was a golden boy in the Indians front office in a while, these guys obviously still have a crush on him. That’s gotta be the basis behind this whole thing.

  8. But now that our heel turn is complete it should no problem taking the title away from Boston’s own John Cena.

    • I see your point, but the nerd in me is compelled to point out that John Cena is Boston’s own John Cena.

  9. haters gonna hate.

  10. Any iota of credibility they may have had disappeared with this statement:

    “You know though, Buck Martinez, the outstanding television broadcaster…”

    • They probably love him because he praises other teams players when we are doing horrible, pretty much the opposite of Jack Morris.

  11. fuck off cleveland jesus christ

  12. “The ice is just starting to thaw in Canada”? Dude, you are in Ohio, not Mexico.

  13. Outrageous… “Buck Martinez, the outstanding television broadcaster”??????

  14. I will agree that the opening night festivities were over the top bordering on disgusting.

    The rest is off-base.

    • I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way.

      Not to mention Stephen Brunt’s ridiculous ‘video essay’ or whatever they called it. It made me want to puke.

      I knew all this “HEY GUYZ LOOK AT OUR NEW AND IMPROVED TEAM” would do nothing but set us up for failure.

  15. I guess the Indians game was so thrilling that they had to spend a full 3 minutes ragging on the Blue Jays?

  16. It was me that transcribed it, but credit to “Jim In Ohio” from the other comments for pointing out that it happened so I knew where to look. @handyarrow if you care. although i’m a boring tweeter :)

  17. “They blamed john for everything including their current medical plan in Canada.”

    This bothers me more than anything they said. Open your eyes to the woes of Obamacare, assholes. The majority of Americans would repeal it.

    OHIP FTW

    • I think it was anti-public Heath care in general, actually

    • And that right there is why I’ve been getting my baseball news at this blog and GB. I’m so done with sports media occupied by Teabaggers like those depicted here.

      The GB/DJF podcasts in particular are really just a breath of fresh air for me, it’s the only alternative to broadcasts like the one linked above that we’re going to get for this team.

      Like I feel like if I shouted ‘INDEED’ in a David Lo Pan voice, at least one of the hosts would know what I’m talking about. I would expect 0 broadcasters in the mainstream sports hemisphere to know that, I just can’t relate to those folks at all.

      I really hope these shows stay on the Web air for a long time.

    • actually, im pretty sure that Obamacare is a step towards public healthcare, which is what he was bashing. The guy is pretty clearly your typical Republic, xenophobic moron.

  18. This reminds me of when I saw a Leafs game at TD Garden and the Bruins fans yelled USA USA! in my face after Boston won.

    These morons with mics think this is demonstration of American superiority, as if Jays fans had no reason to be confident, and called it smugness to be excited about this team.

    And of all things they thought we could be upset about, they chose the Canadian health care system? I wouldn’t wish an up close and personal experience with US healthcare on anybody, but if I did, it would be these idiots.

  19. I guess you have to consider the source on this one…Pretty sure there’s something in the water in Cleveland…

    • There’s an oil barge winding
      Down the Cuyahoga River
      Rolling into Cleveland to the lake

      Cleveland, city of light, city of magic
      Cleveland, city of light, you’re calling me
      Cleveland, even now I can remember
      ‘Cause the Cuyahoga River goes smokin’ through my dreams

      Burn on, big river, burn on
      Burn on, big river, burn on

  20. As if we drink Labatt’s…

    • We don’t drink Labatt’s OR call it Labatt’s.

      • i will drink scope, cough syrup, raisons fermenting in rabbit piss, a jar of fuckin seagul turds, whatever gives me a fuckin good buzz eh i need it to watch them jays play on the radio

  21. They are right about the coronation thing and the smugness. We heard people on here losing their shit when baseball prospectus was pegging us for less than 90 wins and a 4th place finish.

    Although I dont understand this buying a championship bs. We signed one cheap free agent.

    • “They are right about the coronation thing and the smugness”

      The pre-season hype was off the charts. The media shoved it down our throats 24/7. Of course when the city is championship starved.. what else is there to do?

      • “The Blue Jays can’t lose enough. Boy the smug attitude they had when we were in Canada to open the season, it was like a coronation.”

        I knew that Jays season opener pre-game video was bound to offend the Cleveland guys and I’m sure word of it spread quickly around the league. It was so embarassing, like the kind of video you do to celebrate the previous season’s championship, not the championship you expect to win this year. I hate that pre-game nonsense at the best of times, but this was in its own league of ridiculousness and I said to myself this is gonna be bad karma for us. I hope someone in the Jays’ front office got their ass kicked for that one.

  22. At the end of the day, they still have to live in Cleveland.

  23. “They blamed john for everything including their current medical plan in Canada.”

    The fuck?

  24. I actually think it’s kind of funny to be the big spending ‘evil’ team that the others hate. Like the Yankees or Red Sox.

    The problem is we don’t have the record to back it up.

    At allllllll.

  25. No one blamed Farrell for anything other than some crazy baserunning decisions, which were call from the bench. A lot of people found it a bit contemptible to be asking out of a contract after one season, and forcing his way out after two.

    • It’s true. The media here wanted AA to rip Farrell to shreds and he never did.

      The Jays organization seemed pretty accommodating to him.

  26. I think Guy#1 is confused. I think because he’s got Farrell on the brain, he is confused and mixing up the Blue Jays and the Red Sox. I wonder if he’s “misremembering” how the Red Sox treated Indians current manager Tito and somehow merging that into Farrell’s exit with the Jays. He might also be confused about how the Red Sox treated Tito’s replacement one year later.

    I hope Farrell wins AL Manager of the Year this year just to show how meaningless the award is.

  27. Wait I’ve identified their most outrageous statement of all:

    “Guy #1: Buck Martinez, the outstanding television broadcaster”

    I didn’t listen to the audio, forgive me if Guy #1 was being sarcastic.

  28. Farell gets the last laugh

  29. Welp…..fuck Cleveland.

  30. It doesn’t take much IQ to cut and

  31. The hole trying to win with players the Marlins couldn’t win with thing is soo annoying. It’s just 4 players out of a 25 man roster!

  32. What a bunch of assholes, typical arrogant Americans.

  33. It could be worse, we could have signed B.J. Upton:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7333

  34. Things have come to a pretty stanky pass if yokels from Cleveland are looking down their noses at us.

  35. Although we are playing terrible so I guess the premise of the conversation is valid, but how did we throw John Farrell under the bus? I thought he all but demanded to be traded to the Red Sox. Sounds like he threw us under the bus if anything.

  36. Meh, the media in Toronto does get a little out of hand every once in a while, but they don’t do shit like this. Still its what ever though, I still think the Jays can pull this thing out of the ditch, all they have to do is hit the gas and they will be fine.. although, honestly i kinda want to question the validity of some of the bats in our line up.

  37. Also I hope to god Napoli doesn’t keep up at his pace, if only because he never buttons his top 2/3 buttons.

  38. Why is he talking like a robot?

  39. Now, I’ve spent some time in Cleveland & the thing about Cleveland is…well, it’s like a lot of U.S. cities…it’s a fucking shit hole of humanity. Tumbleweed blowing through the miserable, ugly ass streets. There’s next to zero life in the city core. It’s dead.

    Baltimore, Cleveland, Memphis, Detroit & on & on & on.
    There’s just no hope for any of these fucking turds.

    Oh & Cleveland…great job on your baseball team’s logo.
    And the Cleveland Browns? hahahahahaha

  40. I think the biggest joke in the world is that somehow the American government has somehow convinced all of it’s people that we hate our health plan and it’s terrible.

    Friend of mine’s cousin had heart surgery it would have cost them over 200,000 dollars for the surgery with something like a 63,000 down payment if the uncle didn’t have great health insurance.

    We only pay for the medication not the surgery’s and yes medication is still expensive if you don’t have a great health plan through work or your own doing and the lines and waiting times are very difficult and the hospital shortages and our taxes are higher.
    I’ve never personally had a big surgery but I’d still pay the higher taxes and never have to go under the knife over having to worry if I’m really truly covered for certain things and if not come up with thousands of dollars in days so they save my life.

    The amount of higher taxes(for health care) I pay in my life(long life) will still be less than any sort of brain, heart or any major surgery, even a broken leg can be over 30,000.

    Just when I actually started liking Cleveland, although I’ve never liked their broadcast team.

  41. Arseholes

  42. Are people actually paying attention to what someone from Cleveland (aka “America’s Hemorrhoid” has to say? Maybe they should worry about why people are taking their talents to South Beach and shit like that.

  43. The only reason I’m smug is that I can get sick without it bankrupting me and be pretty certain that when sending a child to school, they won’t get gunned down with an assault rifle.

  44. Cleveland’s like shittier a Toronto, I hear, which is really saying something because Toronto is pretty fecal itself.

    The fuck cares what Cleveland thinks? Fuck ‘em.

  45. This is probably Drew Carey’s fault.

  46. I don’t know why the Monkey Army is sore about this.

    If the roles were reversed we would be saying the exact same shit, only with way more swear words.

    If you don’t give a shit what the rest of the league thinks then that’s cool, but if you do, then don’t act angry; act embarrassed. We were cocky as fuck, it bit us in the ass, and now we have to eat humble pie. I might be a “fucking idiot” because we’re only 28 games in, but I’ll still keep my mouth shut until we start flirting with .500.

  47. In fairness they have to watch the indians all season i would be an asshole too. So far this season has been really fucking hard as a jays fan but these guys are completely biased.
    I cant see why they are so upset with how the jays handled farrell because as memory severs he was traded and has no ill feelings. Also cleveland ended up with the player the jays traded for Farrell.

    To me this is just another example of the US media just burying the Jays at this crazy start. The pre season expectations were a little high but fuck you play to make the playoffs and as an organization they should want to be there right??? The Jays don’t make much money for any of the US teams so they don’t give a shit what toronto does and this means they will just bury the Jays while the Angels will still turn it around of course they will they have talent. Well so do the Jays and i fucking hope the Jays do play like they can this season and i would just love to crush the Indians now.

    Then again im just a pissed off Jays fan

  48. Easy boys. We cannot act like we don’t deseVe this. We all falsely ( Stoeten) bought into the hype. We have a terrible team and we cannot fault others for revelling in it. Go jays.

  49. “They blamed john for everything including their current medical plan in Canada.”

    What a bunch of dumb motherfuckers, they don’t even know enough to be jealous of our single-payer medical insurance program. Get a fucking clue people, one more and you might have two to rub together.

  50. They have a point about coronation though. When those fucking idiots in pr put that fucking promo on the jumbo tron saying that they’re gonna win the world series on the opening night. I even said it back then. it was classless and embarrassing to show something like that when the opposing team is watching from the dugout. You guys heard this one but I’m sure that’s what everyone is saying south of the border.

  51. To be truthful, it’s hard listening to Hamilton’s shit everytime I listen to an Indians game. He actually cried on the air after Robbie Alomar hit the home run for the Orioles in 1996 that knocked the Indians out of the playoffs. I got a lot of crap from Indian fans back in the mid 90′s because they thought the Indians were a lock to win the World Series 10 years in a row. How’d that work out? Hamilton’s said other things that i have alerted Mike Wilner about, but Wilner deleted my post and defended him. If I hear anything else, I’ll let you guys know.

  52. To Jim in Ohio and all other Jays fans here, I’ve read all the comments and must say I find all of you a bit restrained compared to how Cleveland “fans” would likely react were the shoe on the other foot. (Not that any broadcaster in Toronto would stoop that low.)

    Certainly, when I heard Hamilton’s comments live, I was at first dumbfounded, then embarrassed, and finally angry, that our announcer used his microphone to trash talk the way he did. As a lifelong Cleveland Indians fan, I’ve been painfully aware for years not only what a ridiculous over-the-top and melodramatic broadcaster he is, but that he possesses a mean streak that periodically comes out in form of snide appraisals of other teams, cities, players and fans. And the worst thing about it is that it’s often in the form of a double standard that is never applied to Cleveland even though it could be.. This kind of jingoistic ethnocentrism is broadly typical of the way so many of our citizens generally think, and I wanted all of you to know that it is not shared by all of us.

    To be certain, many of us who have long been rooting for Toronto to take down the twin evils of Boston and New York in the AL East were a bit concerned by the brimming confidence emanating from north of the border this spring. It would have put less pressure on the team had the organization simply stayed quiet and professionally deconstructed the Yankees and Red Sox. But coming from a city that also tends to get way too high and mighty when it’s feeling it (remember the arrogance of our LeBron days? And didn’t we pay a price for that?) I really couldn’t blame Jays fans for getting over-excited, especially when no one in charge was preaching restraint. But hey, I’m for anyone getting excited about baseball, and I wanted Toronto to get jazzed again for the sport. And I know the way the season has begun has to be really discouraging.

    But for Hamilton to kick you when you were down, using specious arguments, innuendo, and not-so-sly jabs, was simply uncalled for, and as someone who has traveled extensively in Canada and encountered nothing but civility, warmth, and good cheer (yes, even throughout Quebec!) I wanted to tell you many of us know Hamilton’s an ass, and to please simply ignore him.

    Oh, and it may not have been the most offensive thing he said, but it certainly was the most inaccurate: while we may be saddled with a buffoon in Hamilton, it may be worse day-in-and-day-out to listen to Buck Martinez. He may not be a jerk, but he is just so thoroughly mediocre. Hamilton praising him only further undermines both men’s credibility, don’t you think?

    Good luck the rest of the way, Jays fans! And, please, don’t hold Hamilton against us, and come to Progressive Field in droves to root for your Jays…we desperately need the gate receipts!

    • Typical American narcissism. You disgust me.

      • Guess I did use a dozen words where one would do…embarrassment sometimes makes a guy stammer in that way. Sorry for the self-indulgence.

        • I think Matt was yanking your chain.

        • Just kidding, buddy. I’m on your side and my sarcasm was just a dig at the tendency of SOME Canadians to take the easy way out and just chalk it up to “arrogant Americans.” It has always irked me, especially as an ex pat.

    • I’m sorry, but I refuse to believe that someone with that level of vocabulary and syntax is a good representation of the a baseball team’s fanbase.

  53. (Oh, and why do we need those gate receipts so badly? So we can buy our way to the front of the line in our health care “system,” silly one!)

    • To Avory- I agree with your points about Hamilton. He has constantly and consistently used the broadcast booth to promote vendettas against other teams, players, managers and umpires. He has on more than one occaision embarrassed himself. I remember back on May, 13, 2007 the Tribe was playing in Oakland. At one point the Indians led 5-1. Eventually the game went to the bottom of the ninth with the Indians up 7-5. Joe Borowski got the first two out before giving up a two out single. Milton Bradley (easily one of Tom’s two favorite people to hate, umpire C.B. Buckner being the other) came to the plate and Tom started ripping Bradley to shreds, calling him a clasless jerk and saying everyone in baseball hated him and in the middle of that diatribe Bradley unloaded a gargantuan home run to tie the game. A few batters later, Jack Cust homered to win it. Later in 2007 during the ALCS against Boston, J.D. Drew came to bat in the first inning of game #6 Hamilton AND Mike Hegan started tearing into Drew. Talking about what a horrible signing he was and how the Red Sox wish they’d never signed him and what a negative presence he was in the clubhouse. On the fifth pitch of that at bat, Drew hit a monstorous blast into the deepest part of Fenway park, the tri-angle in centerfield, for a grand slam home run. The Indians never recovered, losing that night 12-2 and the next night 11-2 and the Red Sox went to the World Series. Hamilton would do well to stop quoting unnamed team sources on the air when he speaks of other clubs and players.

      Finally, about the Indians, many Cleveland fans believed a slew of World Series championships was the clubs Inheirent birthright, back in the mid to late 1990′s. I think Hamilton is one of many who cannot come to grips with the fact that the “era of champions” came and went with no World Series title. In 20/20 hindsight, here are the four reasons I believe the Indians of that era failed to win the World series:

      1.- ALBERT BELLE-. Say what you want about Albert, but while he was there he was not only the face of the franchise, but he was also the straw that stirred the drink. The Indians gave long term contracts to their young players believing they would give hometown discounts and stay when their contracts expired. Belle disproved that hypothesis by leaving as soon as he got the chance. His leaving also made it sexy for Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome to follow suit when their contracts expired. Belle’s departure forced the Indians to deviate from their original philosophy and trade Kenny Lofton a few months later before his free agent year. It should be noted that the Indians went to the World Series in 1995 with Belle, Lofton and Carlos Baerga as the centerpiece of the franchise. Just 18 months later, on opening day 1997 all three of those players were gone.

      2.-FAILURE TO OBTAIN A TOP OF THE ROTATION STARTER-. The Indians went to the playoffs 6 times in 7 years during that era, but ultimately failed because they had no #1 starter to match up against other teams #1′s. Tom Glavine, John Smoltz and Greg Maddux killed the Indians in the 1995 World Series. In the 1998 ALCS it was David Wells (Wells, by the way, had a career record of 25-3 against the Tribe, that’s the best in baseball history by one pitcher against any one team). In 1999 it was Pedro Martinez. The Indians countered with aging veterans like Dennis Martinez and Orel Hershiser, or guys like Charles Nagy, Albie Lopez and Chad Ogea. The mismatch here is obvious. In fairness to the Indians management, they thought guys like Jaret wright and Bartolo Colon would be the answer, but Wright couldn’t stay healthy and Colon didn’t develpoe fast enough.

      3.- THE STRIKE OF 1994-. The strike of 1994 hurt the Indians in three ways. First of all it deprived them of valuable post season experience they would have surely had if the season had been allowed to continue. Secondly, it switched home field advantage for the World Series around. You may remember, the Blue Jays won the 1993 World series on Joe Carter’s home run in Toronto. The American League had home field advantage in the odd numbered years. The strike switched that around. When they played in the next World Series in 1995, The Series opened and closed in Atlanta. The Indians should have been at home for the deciding games of the 1995 and 1997 World Series. How that would have effected the outcome we will never know, but I’m sure you would have preferred to play that infamous game #7 with the Marlins in Cleveland instead of Miami. Finally, the strike gave the Indians a false sense of how good they really were. Most clubs didn’t prepare for 1995 as there was no way to know if the season would even happen. The Indians were ready and it showed on the field. The Indians used the competitive advantage to destroy the competition, not realizing that in the strike settlement the seeds of the Indians undoing were sown, in that the basic agreement was signed with no salary cap, which the other clubs had been planning for. This led to reason #4…….

      4.- THE RE-EMERGENCE OF THE NEW YORK YANKEES AS A BASEBALL POWER.- One nice thing about the Blue Jays glory days was the fact they happened while the Yankees floundered in misery and mediocrity. Once the 1994-95 players strike ended with no financial constraints placed on the clubs, the Yankees were free to spend and spend they did. The Yankees tremendous financial advantage dwarfed the best laid plans of John Hart and sealed the fate of the Indians of the 1990′s. I don’t know if you remember it or not, but back in 1996 (June, I believe) the Indians were still riding the wave of their successful 1995 season and had started 1996 beating the daylights out of everybody when the Yankees came to Jacob’s Field for a 4 game weekend series. The Yankees swept the series, and from that point on pretty much dominated the Tribe. Oh the Indians did beat the Yanks in the division series in 1997 and again in 2007, but other than those two occurences, the Yankees have owned the Indians for the last 17 years. Remember those 4 World series championships the Yankees won between 1996 and 2000, well, those were the championships the Indians THOUGHT they were going to win. As long as the Yankees and Red Sox have money to spend, and as long as there are teams like the Dodgers to let them off the hook when they spend poorly, those two clubs will always be a factor.

      On a final note to you Avory, I get tired of hearing Indians fans rip poor Jose Mesa for the blown save in the 7th game of the 1997 World Series. Yes, the loss hurt, but really the Indians should have won that series in 5 games. You never hear anyone rip Paul Assenmacher or Eric Plunk for giving up 7 runs in the ninth inning of game 3 ( a game the Indians lost 14-11) or Orel Hershiser for blowing a 4-1 lead in the 6th inning of game 5 (a game the Tribe lost 6-5). Had the Indians won just one of those games they win the series and game 7 never happens. The Tribe in 1997 split the first two games in Florida and came home to snow flurries against a warm weather team and lost 2 of 3 at home. That should have never happened. To think Omar Vizquel wrote a book where he used a whole chapter to skewer Mesa was unfair. That disaster against the Marlins was a team effort. Best regards to you Avory, and to the moderators, sorry about the long post, it won’t happen twice.

      • Kudos to Jim In Ohio and Avory for some well written and thoughtful posts.
        If I make it down ( over?) to Progressive this season, first rounds on me.

      • JIm, very little I can disagree with there; certainly anyone–including Vizquel–who blames the Series loss in 1997 exclusively on Jose Mesa is being myopic. While 1997 hurt, the lost season of 1994 and the devastating loss in the ALDS to Baltimore was worse. All of 1997 was a bonus, given the mediocrity of the regular season; it was a painful loss, sure, but the entire postseason that year was found money. To be honest, it was hard to fully enjoy 1995 and 1996–clearly the teams best equipped to win it all–because the regular seasons had no drama. In fact, the AL Central was so bad for so many years during the time the Tribe was good that we sat around all summer waiting for the postseason. We needed a pennant race or two.

        I’d only add a couple of things to the discussion: (1) the vaunted Tribe offense of that era never showed up in the postseason, but unheralded pitching often did and (2) that the entire era has such an afterglow that NE Ohioans tend to revere Dick Jacobs and loathe the current owners when in fact Jacobs left the cupboard bare when he left with his pockets full. The truth is that Dick Jacobs was a businessman first and last, and would have moved the team if it made him an extra buck while the Dolan family, Cleveland natives, loved baseball and the idea of owning the Indians, and bought the team as much as a public trust as a commercial enterprise but who do the “broadminded” Clevelanders have fond memories of and who do they hate? ‘Nuf said.

        May I add one other self-indulgent note to the good Blue Jays fans here..I actually attended the sixth game of the 1992 World Series in Atlanta. It was the only World Series game I ever saw in person, and I don’t think I need to go to another one because the one I saw was an absolute classic. When the Braves tied the game up in the bottom of the ninth with two outs, I was literally lifted off my feet by the wave of humanity that swelled up behind me and I was nearly thrown headfirst by the roaring crowd into seats two rows ahead of me. Only my friend who grabbed my ankles and pulled me back from the brink.saved me from possible injury. It was true hysteria, something not generally ascribed to a Braves crowd. But the crowd’s relief from the unbearable tension of impending loss created one most amazing moments I’ve ever witnessed in sport.

        But a close second was two innings later when Mike Timlin picked up that bunt attempt by Otis Nixon and threw to Joe Carter for the third out as the tying runner ran uselessly across home plate. The crowd in such a crescendo to that point was extinguished like a blown-out match, going so silent you could hear a pin drop, were it not for the exultant Jays that I could clearly hear shouting, even as far down the right field line as I was. The silence truly was deafening…until you started hearing the sobs and sniffles of crushed Braves fans as they started filing out. Wow. What a moment. The next day, the immortal headlines in the G&M: “Our Americans are Better Than Their Amercians.”

        I’ll never forget that night, nor I suppose will any baseball fan in Canada.

  54. Does this broadcaster travel with the team? I would love for him to come to Toronto for a welcoming.

  55. Hey what did we ever do to Cleveland. It is easy to kick us while we are down. He better pray that we don’t get hot.

  56. no wonder most of the world hates americans!!! fuckin plantin my garden soon eh

  57. At least Ichiro never said he’d punch himself in the face if he ever found himself wanting to go to Toronto…

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