Nick Cafardo, sports

Something that I just can’t bear to allow to slip through the crack around here is a piece from the Boston Globe last week, wherein Nick Cafardo tried to caveat his way out of looking too terribly ridiculous while indulging in some Jays-related insanity as part of his winners and losers column as the season reached the one-quarter mark.

Did he fail? And how!

In an “Updates On 9″ section, which if you’re familiar with Cafardo’s work, you’ll know he often concludes columns with, he leads off with a note– if you want to call it that– on Blue Jays slugger Jose Bautista.

1. Jose Bautista, RF, Blue Jays — File this under “way too early” because who knows if the Jays will get back in the race. But teams like Texas are already looking at a potential power bat for the second half of the season, and Bautista and fellow Toronto basher Edwin Encarnacion certainly fit the mold. The Jays certainly don’t want to give up on what they started, but at some point, do they try to get the most for these guys?

We mentioned this on a podcast last week, but it’s certainly worth repeating: “way too early” caveat or not, this is a giant steaming load.

The Jays– the Toronto Blue Jays– who in 2014 will have starters R.A. Dickey, Brandon Morrow, Mark Buehrle and J.A. Happ under contract, with Drew Hutchison, Kyle Drabek, Sean Nolin, Marcus Stroman, and eventually even Aaron Sanchez knocking at the door;  who have core position players Jose Reyes, Melky Cabrera, and Brett Lawrie in place, in addition to the aforementioned Bautista and Encarnacion… are going start dismantling things at the 2013 trade deadline?

Uh… bad start or not, in what universe???!?

Yes, the status quo still would leave the Jays with “holes” at DH, at second, in centre field, and behind the plate. But… am I missing something here? Because it’s not like they won’t also still have Colby Rasmus, Anthony Gose, Emilio Bonifacio, Maicer Izturis and J.P. Arencibia under contract if they are unable to find upgrades. Plus, astoundingly, by the time 2014 rolls around, picking up Adam Lind’s last option may actually not seem completely nuts.

I know a lot of people want to take the hopelessly easy route of looking at the record and concluding that this team, as constituted, doesn’t work, but the 10-17 April has become a 12-13 May, so far, with the appearance of better things on the horizon. No, they may not be able to get themselves back into the race this year, but how does that possibly mean that, with a fresh start and some tinkering, this won’t still be a very strong club come next year? The Boston media empowering this dumbfuckery is pretty rich.

But OK. Sure, Massholes (or Texas Rangers fans, I guess). Be my guest and start getting all excited that you might trade for Bautista or Encarnacion come July. That’s not a colossal waste of fucking brain power at all.

Comments (82)

  1. If Texas came knocking and the Jays could get Profar in a deal for Edwin (or conceivably Jose), would that not be worth considering as a means of re-tooling? Just tossing it out there…

  2. Profar, Olt and Derek Holland and I’ll do it.

    • I dont usually indulge in this nonsense, but sure why not!!!

      • The only players who are untradeable are Mike Trout and Bryce Harper. Otherwise, make the right offer and there’s no reason you couldn’t have Bautista as far as I’m concerned. It would just have to be a pretty preposterous offer.

  3. I Agree, this isn’t a win this year or dismantle type of team.

    there is no way to justify trading bautista at this point, especially to texas, who’s top prospect is a SS which is one position, (barring health issues) we don’t have to worry about.

  4. Exactly my thinking!

  5. This is because he forgets AA is not Kevin Towers, and thus even one of EE or Bautista still in there prime will cost more than Reyes did, because Reyes was traded away in a salary dump. And I say reyes, because JJ has been average, Emilio is Emilio and the good Emillllioooo (see night at the Roxbury). Although Buerhle has been good, he cannot keep this up forever can he?

  6. I proposed this possibility to my fantasy baseball league earlier in the year (when Bautista was still struggling pretty hardcore – he’s not anymore). With Gose coming up through the ranks, and holes at 2B and DH, Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt might seem like some attractive options. If the Jays aren’t in the running anymore, it wouldn’t be a hopelessly awful idea to try to acquire the #1 prospect in baseball to be your everyday second baseman. A middle infield of Jose Reyes at SS and Profar at 2B could be pretty crazy good for several years to come.

    When Lind was starting out the season, I didn’t see much possibility of the Jays renewing his contract.. I’m not sure how much that has changed now, but Mike Olt is another uber prospect who could nicely split time with Edwin at 1B and DH (altough admittedly, he hasn’t been good this year). Bautista for Profar and Olt, et al, might be worth pursuing (depending on whether you figure Bautista remains a huge offensive force for years to come).

    • By all accounts Jpros D is excellent.
      Reyes would in all likelihood be a better fit at 2b.

      Dont make the same mistake baltimore did with Machado!!!!

    • Olt is terribly overrated, defensively he doesn’t have a strong position and doesn’t have the bat to survive at 1B.

      He was 23 years old last year playing in AA. he’s more mature than the majority of prospects which is leading to his hype.

    • Ya, but the point is that Texas would never give the Jays the insane price we would charge for Bautista, and the Jays have no reason to let him go for anything below insanity.

  7. Encarnacion for Darvish? I’d miss seeing the parrot being taken for a walk but I’d survive.

  8. I’m not sure why you are so up in arms about this Stoeten.

    If a trade can make the team better, AA will do it.

    The current investment in the team and other values/factors that the player brings will adjust the price of the asset and make it higher, but not take it off the market.

    JB and EE are special players on great contracts, they’re could be a team that is willing to pay the price.

  9. Trading Bautista would be a bad idea whether it’s now or in July. E5 on the other hand I wouldn’t miss quite as much but of course he wouldn’t fetch nearly as much on the trade market.

    All in all the Jays would be better off keeping both as they are not burning a hole in their pocket and are productive. The Jays should worry about the players that aren’t productive first.

  10. The bigger question is what happens to JJ, does he get moved at the deadline, resigned at a VERY cheap price, or let go for a sandwich pick?

    • Maybe wouldn’t even tender him at this point.

      $14 mill is a lot if the guy can’t prove he’s healthy and somewhat effective by the end of the season.

  11. Bonifacio and Izturis? Fuck that. Kawasaki!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. Poor Stoeten. Even a post meant to clear up this insanity instantly turns into a dozen ridiculous trade scenarios! We are doomed.

  13. I’m certainly not happy about how the season has progressed to this point (who is?), but the season is far from over. I have been following baseball since 1969 and I can remember many a great comeback after horrifying starts. Any of us who were around remember the Tigers rallying to steal the division (and possibly a World Series championship) in 1987 from the Blue Jays. How many remember that the Tigers were 7 games under .500 and 11 games out in May of that year? Very few, if any. In 1973 the Reds were 11 games behind the Dodgers on July 1st. The Reds won a doubleheader from LA that day and rallied to take the division lead on Labour day before finishing 3 1/2 ahead. That same year the Mets were 12 1/2 out on July 8th and 10 1/2 out on August 1st and came back not only to win the division, but upset the Reds in the NLCS and came withing one game of upsetting the A’s in the World Series. In 1978 the Yankees trailed Boston by 14 1/2 games at the All Star break and not only won the division, but the World Series as well. The 1995 Mariners were 13 games out on August 2nd and won the division in a one game playoff, and finally we all remember last year when the Oakland A’s were 26-35 on June 10th and 13 games behind Texas and everybody know what happened there. In short, I’ve seen too many clubs rally to save their season. This is not a time for subtraction, but rather a time for addition. The Tigers overhauled the Jays in 1987 because they added Doyle Alexander ( who I believe went 11-0 after he was acquired) and Bill Madlock (who was picked up off waivers and hit .279 with 14 home runs and 50 rbi’s in half a season) Those were some kick ass acquisitions. Do the Jays have issues? Certainly. The 3 starting pitchers we picked up over the winter have been marginal at best, 2nd base is a black hole and Brett Lawrie needs a babysitter among other things. I can not just throw this season away. I’ve seem too many teams rally from their deathbeds to save the season. It can happen. It happens all the time.

    • I will never get over 1987. Never. Damn Tigers.

    • +1.

      This is very positive news.

      I do think its unlikely the Jays can make the playoffs this year, but I wouldn’t dismantle the team & especially not trade Bautista & Edwin.

      Josh Johnson is an intriguing decision.

      I think the safest thing is to put him on the market & see what you get at the trace deadline. If it’s nothing but prospect scraps, then keep him. Make him a qualifying offer & if someone else takes him, so be it.

  14. Why does everyone keep acting like we have some incredible core under contract? Melky, Lawrie, Morrow, Drabek and Happ are being counted on to be productive and that’s silly.

    Reyes, EE and Bautista are the only players we have who can be counted on. Third base, CF, second base, catcher, DH, and at least two rotation spots are holes.

    “Status quo” isn’t god enough, the Jays will have to make a lot of tweaks before the start of next year, and there’s not much left on the farm. Trade Bautista for a couple young players, and use the money you save on a FA.

    • Dumbest.

      • If Morrow, Lawrie, Happ and Drabek were on any other you wouldn’t think much of them.

        Lawrie hasn’t done much since 2011 and has looked terrible this year, and Morrow’s underlying stats last year weren’t exceptional – he hasn’t been his dominant self since 2011.

        I like Melky and he’s a decent player but isn’t a cornerstone. Buehrle and Dickey are good but nobody else in the rotation has stepped up and those guys haven’t quite performed either.

        This was a good team pre-season, but you can’t just say “small sample, the talent is still here”, because it’s not. Many assumptions were made: Lawrie will be good, Melky will be a 4+ win player, Morrow can step up, JJ will be a #2, Colby and JPA will be good enough… none of these things have remotely happened.

    • if you trade Bautista, then you have do to a complete strip down and rebuild

    • Agreed with everything up until “trade Bautista”.

    • I wouldn’t trade Bautista unless the offer was crazy (like Holland and Profar, which would never happen in a million years). Anyone else, why not?

      Lawrie plays great D, but has shown little with the bat since 2011. He’s shown he can’t stay in the lineup, and I can’t see how his antics (Twitter, calling out teammates, etc.) aren’t hurting the chemistry of the team. He might be an All-Star or even an MVP candidate too, but people were saying that about Dustin Ackley two years ago too. The chances of his missing 30-50 games a year because he’s too stupid to figure out that its not worth it diving headfirst into the stands when you have an 8-run lead are greater.

      Morrow was great last year for 21 starts. In the other 56 starts he’s made as a Blue Jay, he’s been a 4th starter at best… but, but, the 17 K game! Jonathan Sanchez threw a no hitter, what’s your point? Besides that, he’s extremely injury prone.

      Rasmus should be a 4th outfielder. If he proves he can hit at some point in limited action, he might deserve a chance to start again, but he can only milk 2010 for so long.

      JA Happ. Seriously?

      Drabek? A project at best. No longer a prospect. He’s never showed that he has the control to succeed at the major league level.

      All along, this Jays team was one that might have challenged for the division if a lot of things went right at the same time. The likelihood of that happening a year from now is lower than it was this year, not more. These players are getting further and further away from the years in which they put up numbers that gave us hope.

  15. reddit infestation

  16. My takeaway from this post is that, excluding Dickey and Morrow, the Jays’ 2014 starting pitching should result in rising anxiety levels for us all.

    • After the past two years, no pitching staff could cause my anxiety to rise anymore.

    • Buerhle is blah enough to keep the heart from pumping too fast.

    • Why is Morrow excluded? I like pitchers who actually pitch well, Morrow’s never done that over a large sample.

      And Dickey’s walks are alarming, maybe the low walk rate in New York doesn’t come back.

  17. It would be nice if these guys wrote about someone the Jays would be willing to trade, if they are too far back by the deadline. Guys like Izturis, Rasmus, Lind, Happ or Josh Johnson. Heck maybe even Melky Cabrera or Mark Bhuerle. But the core guys signed for ultra cheap, and a few more years? Why would they?

  18. So I’ve thought about this too much.

    Jays have 3 distinct stretches in their schedule before the All Star break.

    20 games of non AL East games
    10 AL East Games
    13 more vs. AL Central and Baltimore

    Records in these stretches of:
    12-8
    6-4
    7-6

    Gives the Jays 47-48 at the break.

    Would need 43 of the last 67 (65%) to break 90 wins.

    With Reyes back, hopefully a more stable pitching staff and arguably a bit easier schedule. Atleast we get 7 against the Astros.

    Doesn’t sound as bad that way eh?

    Help me out here guys. Trying to stay positive for 2013.

  19. You’re over estimating AA’s knowledge. What major trade has he ever done that have actually worked out? I’m surprised he”s still around.

    If Joey Bats and/or EE are actually traded, it would indicate that a complete rebuild is in order for the club. Would AA actually do that and admit he got fleeced in the Marlins deal?
    If AA lasts another year, he’ll keep the club as is just to prove his deal wasn’t so bad. His handling of youngsters is atrocious.

    The Jays primary needs are at 2b and c, possibly 3b. They have nothing to trade with. Free Agency is their only option if they continue on this mission of winning at all costs now.

    C Brian McCann will be available.
    We can dream about 2B Robinson Cano but with the Yankees and Dodgers probably in a bidding war offering in the range of $25m, we’re out. Ben Zobrist is an option but the Rays will most likely exercise their option.
    3B Chase Headley is also interesting.

    • The trades everyone used to rave about (getting Escobar, Lawrie, Rasmus, Morrow) worked out because we didn’t get up much, but those guys haven’t really turned into much.

      Next year’s rotation isn’t going to be any better than this year’s. Morrow is a #5 starter, Buehrle a #4, and there’s no guarantee Dickey will get back to 2010-12. Who know about the prospects.

      AA didn’t even acquire Bautista and EE himself, they’re the only ones producing. The Beeston-AA era has been a massive bust, time to turn the page.

      • Idiots. Both of you.

        No explanation necessary

        • That.

        • No, you do need to explain. That’s how this whole discussion thing works.

          Where are all these assets AA has acquired? How is the rotation suddenly going to be any good next year?

          • 4 roughly league average starters under contract, johnson likely coming off the books so some money to play with. hutchison, nolin, drabek competing for starts as opposed to laffey, romero, ortiz, jenkins who were the first call-ups this year. possibility of sanchez as well.

            the rotation isnt all of a sudden going to be one of the best in the league, but it shouldnt have to be given the strength of the starting lineup.

          • @Frank.

            Don’t poke the AA apologists. They get very annoyed.

            I do think what AA tried to do this offseason was a good idea.In retrospect , he should have done it a year sooner getting Darvish or Fielder, but for whatever reason, Rogers wouldn’t spend the money for the 2012 baseball season.

            If AA can convince Rogers to keep payroll in the 125-140 million range , then that should allow AA to get some free agents or do some trades, to rebuild for 2014.

      • Frank, just ignore him. He won’t realize AA is the problem until its way too late.

  20. Watching the Red Sox last night and announcers were talking about the Blue Jays. They said their home run power is explosive but only if they had any starting pitching, they’d be right back in the race.

  21. I’m not sure why we’re spending so much time parsing what Nick Cafardo has to say. It’s crap.

    • because stoeten is too lazy to pen an original article. He takes other people’s articles and trolls them on the DJF site. The last piece of sunbstantial work he did was last Thursday./Friday. Wonder what the score is paying him for.

  22. never say never, every thing is for sale, just depends what you get back will it happen not likely but its fun to think about

  23. Never say never.
    I have no problem ever trading an asset at it’s assumed peak.
    I hate holding diminishing assets.

  24. I know you guys hate Lind and JPA but both are good enough for the money.

    • They have been so far this year.

      Once JPAs arb kicks in I have my doubts.

      He should talk to Lind about kitten faces new patient approach.

  25. Didn’t Bill Clinton have to have a Cafardo cut off his dick after banging Lewinsky?

    Nick that greasy little wart.

  26. For all you Fantasy players from the top, you’re not even targeting the best prospect out there.

    Oscar Tavares is going to be the name everyone remembers a decade from now.

    Either way, I still don’t do it. There’s too much in place to start subtracting pieces that are in their prime.

  27. Add in the fact that EE and Bautista are under totally reasonable contracts that the Jays can easily absorb, and it REALLY makes no sense.

    There’d be no point in trading those two unless you did a full Marlins style tear down and set your sights for 4 or 5 years down the road.

    This year is going to be tough, but I see no reason why this team can’t aim to compete in 14, 15, 16. Especially if they keep kicking up payroll.

  28. I don’t know for sure but I don’t think that many fans here are really getting just how good Bautista is and how that wouldn’t be something that is easily replaceable with prospects.

    The fact of the matter is that if you deal Bautista you are probably going to lose the deal.

    The guy has like a 165 OPS+ over his past 2000 PA’s, maybe Delgado did that but I really doubt it. This is probably the best run for an individual position player in franchise history.

  29. Usually power numbers in the ballpark of edwins and jose’s cost a combine total of $40 million annually… i believe we’re paying less than half of that. What the fuck would be the point of getting rid of them if you just have to replace them

  30. i’m hiding under the bridge, napping, until the trolls go by …

  31. most of the dicks in here would stomp on green tomatoes because they weren’t ripe yet and trade their ripe ones for more green ones and then …

    mother of jesuschristo!

  32. Not getting all the Rasmus hate.

    A .750+ .OPS from a good defensive CF is alright in my books. More walks and less Ks would certainly be nice but so far this year he’s alright.

    And people saying the trade for him was a bad one?

    The only piece we gave up that would still be here was fuckin Mark Rzcepzynski (or whatever). He’s currently unable to make the Cards ultra shitty bullpen and is spending some time in AAA.

    His numbers aren’t 2010 good but let’s keep things in perspective.

  33. i agree with stoeten. although in a vaccuum a Bautista for Profar type deal would make quite a bit of sense, the optics of such a deal makes it virtually impossible as does the timing right at the beginning of a supposed 3-5 year contending window.

    just wondering here, but should Josh Johnson finish with disappointing numbers this season, say ERA of 4.00 or a bit higher, what do you guys think the chances are that the jays a) extend him a qualifying offer ($13mill or whatever it is) and b) that he accepts and plays for the jays again with his focus on having a good season and making more money next year?

    • A starter with an ERA of around 4 would be the Jays staff ace at this point.
      Of course we have to at least try to sign him.
      If he bolts, we’d have to replace him.
      But don’t worry, AA will easily replace him with a waiver claim.

      • We’ve got 3 TJs coming back. Best guess is 1 of those 3 is the 4/5 starter next year and the other two are AAA ready-to-be-callups.

        I make JJ the qualifying, though, if he’s good in the 2nd half. Gotta assume you’ll get the pick, but otherwise you end up next season with JJ and the 3 Bisons as a (hopefully with a happy ending) fairy tale.

    • I think they extend an offer if he’s in the 4 ERA range.

      He’s around 6.8 now do would have to pitch pretty alright to work that down.

      I think if that’s the case he would probably decline. Some pretty shitty pitchers got some OK 2 or 3 years deals last year.

      Who knows though. Both decisions would be tough calls.

  34. No player should ever be off limits. Any player can be had for the right price; in this case the price for E5 or Bautista would be very high.

    If Texas would entertain an E5 + Izturis for Profar + other goodies AA would be foolish to not even talk about it. Bautista would be even more expensive, probably Profar + Holland just to start.

  35. What’s up my mates, how is everything? Here it is in fact pleasant Video game games collection. i enjoyed a lot.

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