padrestacobell

The team from north of the border plays north of the Mexican border versus the Padres tonight in game No. 2 of three game set. Let’s hope this one doesn’t end in a Jesus Guzman walkoff in the bottom of the 36th.

No Melky tonight, so Anthony Gose gets some reps versus a left-hander. Might as well just go ahead and speed bag my own balls.

Scuttlebutt

In case you missed the shit that went down earlier today… Brandon Morrow to the DL and Ricky Romero outrighted to Buffalo. Yup.

Ramon Ortiz has risen and will start tomorrow, Barry Davis tweets.

Maybe you’re unwilling to click-through Barry Davis’ tweet linked above, so I’ll let you know that he also notes Juan Perez and Todd Redmond are both unavailable tonight.

Esmil Rogers will start on Friday, and could see some innings in relief of Ortiz tomorrow, Wilner tweets.

Scott MacArthur tweets the latest on Jose Reyes’ rehab. He’s going side to side, turning, and stuff.

Via Gregor Chisholm, John Gibbons intends to have Chad Jenkins back with the club for a start on June 11.

At Gamereax, Chris Toman takes an in-depth look at the successes of Casey Janssen this season.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at theScore.comAnd for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with theScore app

Toronto Blue Jays

LF Anthony Gose (L)
RF Jose Bautista (R)
3B Edwin Encarnacion (R)
C J.P. Arencibia (R)
1B Adam Lind (L)
2B Mark DeRosa (R)
CF Colby Rasmus (L)
SS Maicer Izturis (S)
LHP Mark Buehrle (L)

San Diego Padres

CF Chris Denorfia (R)
SS Everth Cabrera (S)
3B Chase Headley (S)
LF Carlos Quentin (R)
2B Jed Gyorko (R)
C Yasmani Grandal (S)
1B Kyle Blanks (R)
RF Jesus Guzman (R)
LHP Robbie Erlin (R)

Comments (371)

  1. So are we going to be fooled by Colby again like we were during his hot run last year..or are we going to do the right thing now and trade his ass while he is hot?

    • @Cricket. I like Colby & he is getting hot with the bat, but AA could replace him with Gose, save 5 million per year & trade him for a 2B, or another pitcher. It would have to Colby + to get a good 2B or pitcher.

  2. Ice Cream Jonsey gets it. I wish i could buy you a beer.

    People like Jesuscristo and adfg aren’t worth the time of day, ignore them, they aren’t intelligent, they aren’t well spoken, they don’t have good ideas, and they aren’t worth the 2 seconds it takes to read their posts.

    Just be thankful you don’t have to chat with these inbreds in everyday life. They don’t have anybody else’s attention, why give them yours?

    • Nailed it

      case of beer

    • Spoken like a true gentleman and scholar, whose opinions and insights merit consideration over his peers. “Yer one of dem der inbreds, I reckon” is what someone with superior logic and vision would utilize. Winning?!?!

    • Actually, Jesuchristo can be useful.

      If you make a comment and he agrees with you, it’s a clear sign you were probably being a dumbass.

    • @Kyle.

      Afdg & Jesuscristo can be too negative about the Jays but there are valid criticisms of what AA has done this year.

      If Hayhurst & Zaun are allowed to criticize the team, why can’t people on a message board entitled “Drunkjaysfans” be allowed to criticize the team.?

      There

      • Criticize, please, just don’t be repetitive or whiny about it. Not to mention stupid, as most of these clowns were complaining that the jays never did anything, so the jays did something, and now they’re complaining about that.

    • Those guys are right though, you can’t dispute it. This team was very poorly constructed, our pitching staff is one of the worst two or three in baseball.

      AA has not acquired one player whose contract is better than his performance. EE and Bautista are the only good productive players on good contacts and he didn’t acquire them.

      You can’t escape the truth. No matter how much you hate those two, the Blue Jays are not very good and will find it tough to finish at .500.

      • Sorry Frank, you can dispute it.
        As constructed, on paper, the Jays were expected to do much better by a majority of experts.Where were these guys preseason? It’s easy to be an expert in hindsight.
        I was listening to a call in show last night and a Tigers fan was hoping the Tigers would trade for Jannsen.Even he wondered WTF about the Jays.

        • I’ll admit I was pretty excited for the season too, but still didn’t approve of the Dickey trade.

          AA has had many opportunities to trade for a top starter over the years, but has declined since the time wasn’t right. As a result, when he was ready to go all-in, the market wasn’t there and he had to overpay for Dickey.

          Sure, he built what looked like a good team, but that team didn’t work out because like last year there’s no depth. I was worried before the season that if one or two starters got injured everything would fall apart, and that’s exactly what’s happened.

          This is AA’s fourth full season as GM. He hasn’t acquired any players who perform better than their contract over that time, shouldn’t that be a huge red flag? None of the trades that have given him the ‘ninja’ tag (Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, Lawrie) have been wins, yet the tag still sticks. I like AA and think he deserves a few more time to prove us doubters wrong, but nobody should believe in him blindly like some still do.

        • “Majority of experts?”

          These so called experts don’t know shit.

          It didn’t take hindsight to realize the pitching staff was full of uneven performers with history of injury, inconsistency, or they were just getting old

          the defensive construction was clearly going to be a problem.

        • Listen to some of the commentary from Stoeten and the DJF podcast where they slam people who didn’t like the Marlins/Dickey trades from the Blue Jays end. They weren’t universally accepted.

          Best team on paper? Well shit, if only the Jays played more games on paper rather than the field, they could sniff the playoffs.

      • @Frank

        You say the team was “poorly constructed”. What do you mean specifically?

        I asume you realize that AA had to get Buehle & Bonafacio in order to get Reyes?

        Would you not have gone after Josh Johnson?

        the RADickey deal was a bit tougher to defend, but Dickey was the best knuckleballer available on the market. The prospect cost was steep.

        • There’s just no depth. AA has proven time and again that he believes a team is the nine starting players and five starting pitchers. There’s no regard for what happens if everything doesn’t go right, and a couple guys get hurt like they have.

          Other teams have cheap young arms sitting in triple-A. When injuries strike, those guys come up, perform and the team keeps rolling. “Injuries!” aren’t an excuse, overcoming them is a skill and AA doesn’t possess it. Pitchers get hurt for the Yankees, so they use David Phelps and Vidal Nuno. The Red Sox use Franklin Morales and Allen Webster. Other teams have cheap quality options too.

          I don’t mind the Marlins trade, Buehrle’s contract will be okay as long as he’s churning out 4.00 ERA innings.

          But the Dickey trade was pretty stupid and I said so at the time. It was a product of him not acquiring a top pitcher when there were many available in previous offseasons. Dickey was the entire market last winter so AA had to greatly overpay.

        • The problem I had with the Josh Johnson/RA Dickey trades is that they both relied on extensions to look good. I don’t think Johnson will get extended… nor is he worthy of one.

    • @ Kyle Z. and 2b are better than homeruns.

      You are both fucking losers who likely live in their moms basements, collect money from the government are just too drunk most of the time to be productive human beings. Firstly, I fucking love the jays. Thats why i come here. The team is 10 games below .500. Ten Fucking games. If the team was 10 games over and I was being negative, then yeah im a negative twat. Also, when am I wrong in terms of my negativity? Meaning, i usually dont come on here to preach doom and gloom. Most of the negativity comes from hating certain players on the jays (ie boni, jpa) Just try to defend those two awful baseball players. They suck. Also, dont put me in the same category as JC. He posts waaaayyyy more than I do. Although he does make some valid points.

  3. This was pretty much the best post ever.

    I spend way too much time thinking about what guys like JC and afdg are like in real life…. why are they here? They are such miserable, insufferable assholes… why do they even come here?

    • From Richard Griffin in today’s Toronto Star. It looks like Gibby was not aware that Morrow was hurt at the same time.

      “The Morrow situation, with no time frame, does not seem to have everyone on the same page. After working just two innings in his May 27 start vs. the Braves, Morrow, after the game, said he had first felt the problem in the final innings of his previous start. Manager John Gibbons claimed, on the other hand, to have only learned about the forearm problem that same day of his shortened start when he was forced to leave early, handing seven innings over to an overworked bullpen. ”

      I thought AA would run a tight ship communication wise so everyone had the same talking points about injuries.

    • Because they may provide a counterpoint to others who understate or ignore the obvious.
      The team, as constructed, should have a better record.
      The reality is, they aren’t playing as well as they should be and the win/loss record reflects that.
      Somewhere between Jesuscristo and the “happy happy joy joy” others, lies the truth.
      It is amazing,to me, that ICJ is the “glass half full” guy.
      BTW. Where’s BFF and all the others who lamented cheap fuck Rogers to spend more money to gaurantee wins?They disappeared.Conveinent.

      • What happened to night manimal?

        • @ Will

          Dunno.
          I can only speculate,based on his last posts, but I have no idea.
          His links provided some excellent insight into Jays related things that were off the radar( pun intended).

      • @Radar.

        I agree with you that there has to be a balanced approach to analyze this team.

        The Mike Wilner ‘s of this world say that we shouldn’t count the Jays record 1-8 against the Yankees etc, but focus on otherfactors.
        I liked BFF because he knew that Rogers had to spend more to compete.

        I agreed for years that Rogers was running this team on a cheap budget & it wasn’t working.

        The Jays have good players now, but what is alarming & unexpected is that the home grown Jays are falling apart.

        Ricky Romero goes from all star in 2011 to barely able to get AAA batters out in Buffalo.

        JPA is homegrown & is a poor defensive catcher.

        Homegrown talent like Hill,Rios,Wells, have much better careers elsewhere after flopping with the Jays.
        The injury situation is worrisome. Young pitchers can’t stay healthy. Veteran pitchers get hurt.

        It’s a recipe for a 75-80 win season.

      • I’ve barely posted here this season, not because of how the team is doing, but because I moved and don’t have cable anymore, so I don’t watch as many games.

        I agree with you though RADAR, the team as constructed was supposed to do much better. I thought if a few guys underperformed (or performed to their past levels of ability – Lawrie, JPA, Rasmus etc.) and some injuries occurred they would at least still be a .500 team. Aside from EE and Jose playing about as well as they did last year, literally everything else has gone horribly awry.

        I don’t think that takes AA off the hook, he’s obviously responsible for some of this, but to me, every pitcher has grossly underperformed and nobody could have predicted that. That’s the biggest reason they’re in this mess. If the pitching was anywhere near league average so far, the Jays would probably be at least .500 and not completely out of the race already.

        • Gotta say, I’m surprised they still haven’t brought up Thole to catch for Dickey.
          Reunite the battery that resulted in a Cy Young award last year and see what happens. What have you got to lose at this point?

    • Just don’t read them. They’re here because you validate them. They feed off stuff like this. You can’t win an argument with a sociopath.

  4. Okay, so where did AA go wrong? Well, he didn’t really. We all counted on Romaro, Morrow to be good and that didn’t happen. Dickey has been okay and JJ is, well, injured again and not great before the injury. Happ was doing better than all the starters but is lucky to be alive after his terrifying injury. If I’m AA, JJ is not signed, Morrow is traded or is my #5 pitcher or goes to the BP permanently. Romaro is left where he is to hopefully sort it out. Mark is old and costly but I’d still try to cut a deal with someone. He dispatched Wells, maybe he can do it with Mark too? So, back to the drawing board for the pitching staff.

    • You could ask the same question of the Dodgers and Angels.

    • whoa-let’s be a little more realistic here.
      While I am not disputing they have all been a greyer shade of pale ( sorry, Procol harum), some of it has been due to our horrid infield defence, which collectively, like last night, might be the worst I have seen in 52 years of watching BB ( and I remember clowns like Coco Laboy trying to play 3B for the expansion Expos). I figure each starter’s ERA is roughly 1 full run higher than it s/b because of this. No prrof , just gut feel from being a former pitcher and seeing the infield bleed ground balls.
      I have posted that I thought Morrow might be traded as I personally see him as a .500 pitcher ( or approx no4 on staff, but maybe a 3 somewhere else) and we might get a MLB ready 2b for him.
      AA cannot get rid of them all, that w/b crazy and besides, we don’t have adequate replacements.
      I do agree with your premise that they will waive bye bye to JJ, but I believe they will keep Buerhle as he is not far off normal if you subtract that 1 run I alluded to and Dickey stays as well-He’ll be Ok as soon as he can increase the velocity on the knuckler and strike more people out. Happ is satisfactory and stays
      So…I can see 2/5 going ( one in a trade) and if no trade they probably bring back 4/5 and hope, hope, one of Hutchison /Perez/? can carry the ball. Drabek is dogshit and belongs in AA so forget him

    • Where did AA go wrong? I think it’s when he said he’s “All in”. The trade with the Marlins was fine, but he should have stopped there, found a decent 2B and put a proper bench in place. Then you start the season and see what you need in July. He was gambling and got rivered when Reyes went down, he got rivered again with the SP performing so poorly and then rivered again when the defensive depth at middle infield was exposed. That’s a lot of bad beats.

  5. For those that believe that Jays fans or those that attend games at the Rogers Centre are the worse fans in the world, take a read of these two knuckle heads:

    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/01/shocking-camden-yards-assault-sends-man-to-hospital-in-serious-condition-police-say

    Please don’t judge me for perusing the Toronto Sun :-)

  6. The disappointment has become part of me now. I am at ease and no longer feel the pain. Baseball is a bitch.

  7. Jesuscristo and Afdg are right on!

    When the leader of a company buys/trades for high priced employees, he expects them to perform according to their salaries. But if the man in charge over-estimates talent, he is held accountable. He went to Rogers and asked for a payroll of 120m. He got it. Rogers expects some returns on the investment. Sure attendance is up, but production is down, way down. Last season with young and upcoming talent on the farm, patient fans over the years fully expected the youngsters would slowly develop and we’d have a winning team within a few years. But AA traded away all of that young talent we were all waiting for! The players he acquired have not produced, in fact they have sucked. When a GM makes bad moves, he has to pay the price. Rogers wants to know why they have greatly increased salary and are in last place. It doesn’t matter if injuries are having a toll on the ballclub. Other teams have injuries too. The Yankees looked dead on paper, but they’re a dead contender, way up on the Jays. Rogers wants a winner just as much as any Jays fans.

    AA has made numerous mistakes in the past few years. Bad deals, calling up youngsters who are not even close to being major leaguers, ruining their development.

    I don’t think its Gibbons fault because I think Gibbons is a puppet for AA. AA calls the shots, telling him who goes in the starting lineup, who gets called up, sent down, who plays, who doesn’t.. Why are deadbeats Blanco and that 2nd base combo playing? Why is JPA playing? JPA is pathetic, he’s not even close to being a pro catcher. He can’t throw, catch, frame, hit, but he can hit homers. If they bring in any other catcher, he could do better. And at least if they brought in a real catcher, it would not only help the pitchers, but also guide the young pitchers. JPA is actually harming development.

    Why didn’t he re-sign Kelly Johnson? He’s a solid 2B and we can overlook his strikeouts if he plays a steady defense. I bet we could have added some wins with just some good defense earlier in the season.

    Romeo? Why is he even taking a roster spot on the AAA club? Some developing pitcher could be pitching for Buffalo and learning. Not some has-been or never was.

    Why isn’t Lawrie in the minors learning how to not only hit, but learn to be a professional?

    If AA really still has Rogers confidence, why doesn’t he make some waiver claims for pitching help? Instead of bringing up kids way too soon, he could as easily scoured the waiver wires for pitching help just to get through this year, without harming the youngsters. He needs to pick up a decent catcher and let JPA dh or send him back to AAA to learn how to catch.

    AA needs to sign some free agents to fill up the holes at 2b and c at the end of the season. The Braves have a young catcher up now so veteran McCann is a free agent at the end of the season. He would look good in a Jays jersey.

    This is constructive criticism.

    I am a Jays fan for a long time. But AA needs to go. We need a GM that is experienced and can actually build a ballclub with a combination of home grown youth and some veterans. The way AA runs this club is harmful to the organization.
    Yes we actually can rebuild (the right way) this team in 2 or 3 years to a winning club if we had someone who is knowledgeable.

    • You know it’s bad when the revisionist historians are asking “why didn’t we resign Kelly Johnson after last season?”…. like everyone in the fucking world was calling Kelly Johnson’s agent to get him signed up. KELLY FUCKING JOHNSON. I’d love to go back 12 months and hear what you idiots were saying about Kelly Johnson. Seriously.

      And no Atlanta does not have a “young” catcher up. They have a 27 year old Evan Gattis. Evan Gattis quit baseball to become a parking valet, a pizza delivery guy, and a FUCKING ski lift operator. Maybe that should be a hint to the self declared “smarter than AA” crowd that baseball is really fucking unpredictable and weird and crazy shit happens sometimes.

      • AA has overseen four lost seasons and has acquired nobody who outperforms their contract.

        GMs try to develop or trade for players who will produce for lower than market value. AA has acquired zero such players. Why are you so enamoured with him? I want a GM who brings results. AA has not being that guy.

        • @Frank

          AA took over the 75-87 team in 2009 & produced immediate results with 85 & 81 wins.

          Last year was a 73 win team, but chances are that the team will win more than 73 wins this year.

        • pretty sure bautista and EE are far outperforming their contracts

      • @Likes 2B.

        It’s true that no one wanted Kelly Johnson.

        Did anyone else want Maicer Izturis?

        It’s sad that the team has no proper 2B

    • Also appreciate the irony of you bashing on AA for these moves and then, in the same breath, suggesting the Jays sign free agent Brian McCann. Jesus Christ I need to stop reading this shit.

      • As a catcher, Brian McCann is a good hitter. He calls an okay game, he’s tough, but defensively he’s not all that impressive. Now that he’s getting older, he’s been injury prone. A catcher that has had shoulder surgery is probably never going to be quite the same anyway. If they were able to get him on a one year make good contract, yes. Otherwise, no.

        If the Reds would part with Ryan Hanigan, he would be a great help. He’s a good defensive catcher and tends to have good OBP skills. Oh, and the Reds staff that is pretty good from top to bottom all prefer to work with him because of his framing ability and his umpire nurturing skills-a really smart, underrated player if you ask me.

    • @Mendoza.

      I think Rogers will give him 2 more years to fix the team. After 2015, the team will be able to rebuild with a new GM, if AA fails.

  8. Last night Wilner was asked what will the jays do if they continue to play like shit come the trade deadline.

    Genius says “they will shop Mark Buehrle”

    I nearly had a hernia from laughing so hard.

    Shop Buehrle? This is like saying you are going to shop Estelle Getty to playboy magazine

    what are you going to send with Buehrle to get someone to take him off your hands? Bautista and Sanchez?

    • Estelle Getty? Heeey Yo! Topical shit right here.

    • @Cricket.

      Wilner said that Josh Johnson, Melky Cabrera & Buerhle would be shopped.

      I am surprised that AA would trade Melky.

      • Well,ok, I could believe he will be shopped as the Bjs have him signed thru the end of next year, so the acquiring team would have him for 15.yrs not .5 yr which would up his trade value significantly if he continues to hit .280+.
        Rather than trading Rasmus, they c/b thinking of moving Gose to LF, having Davis as the 4th OF and saving Melky’s 8m for next year and 4 m for this year for a total of 12m. They jettison JJ’s 13.4m and now you have saved 25.3m plus oliver is off the books,and now you are at 28.3m saved. A team with good pitching but poor offence would love Cabrera, never mind the steroid BS, except SF of course.
        So yeah I can believe it. Buerhle? they might shop him but unless there is a “blue light” special going on, can’t see anyone taking that huge contract at face value ( m/b Melky+Buerhle?).
        There will be more conjecture soon I am sure

        • @fukstik.

          The team is weaker with Gose/Rasmus/Bautista. than Melky/Rasmus/Bautista.

          On the other hand , what do you get for 1.5 seasons of Melky?

          Young pitcher?, 2B?, prospects?

          I think Gose needs some more at bats in the minors.

          If AA wants to take a shot at a playoff spot in 2014, isn’t he better off keeping Melky?

          If we the Dominican Quattro in the lineup, healthy & performing, the tam is much better.

          Reyes,Cabrera, Bautista & Edwin are a fearsome foresome.

          • Melky has a .705 OPS on the season. Among projected qualifying LF, he’s 20th out of 23 in that statistic. 15th out of 23 in OBP. You can point out his more recent performance as a positive, but there’s no telling where he’ll actually settle at, as this could be a comparative hot streak in a season of below average performance. He also has hammy concerns, and his speed has suffered as a result.

            Given that the talk around the league was that he was being shopped one year deals, and the Jays came through with two years, and given his overall performance with the Jays, to date, I don’t think you’ll get much of anything trading him. And if he’s kept, he could be a liability.

            • @Bojangles.

              Thanks for the info. Travis Snider plays LF & has a higher OPS than Melky this year ?

              Snider gets paid 500k & has played above average defense.

              IMHO, Melky is a consistent hitter so that’s why AA wanted him.

          • Persoanlly I’m kind of 50-50 on the guy. I was merely mentioning some possible scenarios given that Wilner claims Melky will be shopped.
            As I said, come July 1 if they are last still, then anyone can be dealt off this team. You don’t sit in last place for the year and do nothing-that is a way to get fired for sure. If Melky gets moved so be it. He’s been decent but hardly lights out, maybe partly due to sore legs, I guess, as every fuckin guy on this team seems to be hurt.
            I think it is safe to say that likely one of Gose or Rasmus or Melky gets dealt, just a question of time

            • @fukstik.

              Do you get more at the trade deadline for Melky or Gose?

              I think a playoff bound team wants Melky. Melky on grass may not have as many injuries.

              I give props to Melky for playing through poor hamstring issues.

              • my guess is he won’t trade him unless he gets at least one MLB ready prospect in return which w/b true of all of them. However, Gose is controllable for 6 years so I doubt very much he would ever be dealt at 7/31. 7/31 is more for dealing “provens” for prospects to those in contention

      • Let’s face it, Anthopoulos took a gamble, and he lost. It looked great on paper to begin the season, but literally every single player that was brought in is either hurt, or has underperformed drastically.

        Every. Single. One.

        It’s illogical, and quite frankly, beyond borderline retarded for anyone to think Anthopoulos should be canned for the teams’ shortcomings. The problem is deeper than beyond the names on the 25-man when the bed-shitting began (before the injuries were rampant). The problem is how well these names are actually performing. That’s out of Anthopoulos’ hands.

        If anyone has to be the scapegoat, it should be Gibby, and likely Pete Walker. I don’t blame Gibby for any of the Jays’ problems, but the manager is usually the one to go. As for Walker, well, I can’t say if he’s part of the reason why the Jays’ pitching is so atrocious. It’s not hard to think of him as a pink slip (RE: not slit) candidate when the pitching wasn’t this bad when Bruce Walton was here.

        • That wasn’t meant to be a reply to anyone, but fuck it, it’s the weekend and I’m fucking dimed.

          • So does a GM sign names or does he sign attributes that contribute to a winning team. It is the Gm’s responsibility to use information at hand to PREDICT what will happen in the future. Any moron can look at past performance and then tell you if it was good or bad. A gm has to be able to see the future to a reasonable degree, otherwise they are no better than a fantasy baseball manager.

            Who would have thought that Melkey’s legs would suffer on turf?

            Who would have thought that Buehrle and Dickey would regress..both are old…both are guys that rely on guile and fringy stuff. that does not play well in our league and our division.

            who would have thought morrow would be inconsistent and hurt ? (happens every year)

            If Reyes was so great that it was worth taking on bloat in contract form then why didnt we just sign him when he was available? fuck it was only a year ago..what changed so much that suddenly its time to get reyes?

            If Dickey was so great..why would the mets make him available when its darn near impossible to pry any other Cy young award winner away from their team? perhaps they knew something that the Jays should have? Something like as you approach 40 you might lose something and as your knuckle ball is seen more and more by the league..it might tend to catch up to you? People act as if being old will not affect Dickey because he throws the knuckle ball. well guess what, turns out he has to be able to throw it with quite a bit of velocity (for a knuckle ball) in order to be a top guy. Getting old takes miles an hour off any pitch..his pitch is not different.

            My basic point is that for everyone that says “no way you could see this coming” I would argue that there were many that did see this as a possibility and that perhaps a more even handed approach would have been in order (such as doing the florida trade or the mets trade but not both).

            • I’ll tell you when I really started to question AA. It was back in early 2012 when I was perusing Fangraphs and came across this article:

              http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-francisco-cordero-doesnt-have-a-job/

              Take note of the date. January 12th. The Jays go ahead and sign this assclown on February 1st. The article is absolutely fucking correct on Coco’s shittiness, but AA signs him anyway for DA SUPER PEN!

              I was pretty ticked off to see that fucking Fangraphs was able to predict Coco’s lack of success better than a fucking major league organization. Failure on the scouts? Ignoring the scouts by AA? Unable to open up a browser window? Who the fuck knows.

              • And clearly Fangraphs is right about everything and their writers’ opinions should always be trusted.

                Cordero wouldn’t have looked nearly as bad if he hadn’t been used in high leverage situations over and over again, and AA dumped him on Houston a few months later as part of the JA Happ trade, which looks pretty solid right now given Happ’s contributions and the way the prospects have performed in the Astros system.

                • Ok, just ignore the data. He worked out.

                • bingo, it was more usage than anything. former closer long past days of being effective should have been confined to middle relief only, especially with the sublime casey janssen as an alternative in the closer spot. AA did not sign him to close.

                  and you are correct about good value coming out of the happ trade.

        • Encarnacion’s parrott

          Very good points. I don’t know if Gibby should be blamed. He seems to be willing to make changes to the batting order, plays matchups well. Very few bullpen errors.

          I guess Pete Walker could be the sacrificial goat. I don’t know what he has done wrong.

    • Yeah, GMs chomping at the bit to get at Buehrle. lul.

  9. On an unrelated note Stoeten is going to be on the Fan in studio at 2 pm…..

  10. Everyone has a shelf life. I’m not saying dump AA now, but how many years does he have? How many losing seasons are acceptable before he gets the axe? Its looking like he isn’t as smarty as we all thought.

    • if 2014 goes by and they don’t compete, he will probably be gone.
      gibbons will stick around for next year, but if they have a 2013 start in them, he will be fired

    • AA is still a young GM and is going to have his growing pains. I like a lot of his trades, regardless of whether it works out, because the reward side tended to be lopsided as opposed to the risk side of the equation (Rasmus, Lawrie, Morrow…).

      But you need to take off the fucking rose-colored glasses for one second and take a hard look at this team.

      From a draft standpoint, top picks like Chad Jenkins and Deck McGuire should have been cementing the 4/5 spots of the rotation, and have ultimately failed to produce. The Jays absolutely SUCK at drafting and developing in-house talent and have been since… what… Halladay? Casey and Cecil seem to be the only two recent exceptions. Successful teams like the Rays and Rangers have massive amounts of depth that the Jays simply don’t have. These teams can handle and adjust to inevitable injury much better than the Jays can. Moreover, they don’t CONSTANTLY rush their fucking prospects to the Show.

      From a trade standpoint, it’s 50/50. You have to love the Wells trade, but hate the Napoli one. The jury will still be out on the Dickey/Marlins trade for another few years… but I don’t see how it gets much better. The Jays desperately need help in the rotation as well as at 2B. You have to think that they are near their payroll limit, but obviously I don’t know that for sure. Johnson is coming off the books, but Buehrle and Reyes are getting nice raises, so that is already spent money. I doubt AA looks to free agency, but is he willing to bet the entire farm on this team by trading Osuna/Sanchez for additional help? If it doesn’t work out, not only does the team not compete but you are looking at a rebuild for the next few years. With the new draft rules, it’s going to be a lot longer than the most recent one.

      Windows are closing for the players too. Melky is only here for another year, and I can’t see the player replacing him being much of an upgrade. Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes… they are all getting older and probably further from their primes. From an emotional standpoint, I would hate to see the Jays get rid of Bautista and Encarnacion, but if AA doesn’t believe he can shore up this team for 2014, he may start a rebuild early. This could be a Herschel Walker style move… talent like Bautista and Encarnacion on these types of contracts (fuck, even Melky), does not come around very often.

      I would say the biggest mistake I’ve seen AA make over the past few years is not acquiring international players or players through the posting system. Ryu, Darvish, Chapman, Puig, Cespedes, Soler… Regardless of how these players turned/turn out, they are the ultimate value. It’s only money… no impact on the draft and the transactions don’t require trading prospects. Obviously there is an issue of information asymmetry here… maybe the money simply wasn’t available at the time. But think about adding a few of those players, increasing payroll to 120 million, and still having the farm system in tact…

      • @jesus

        +1.

        I agree that AA should have gone after Darvish, but it seems that Rogrs only authorized extra money for 2013 forward.

  11. My one recent big hindsight regret/fantasy is Mat Latos.

    There were tons of reports that the Jays chased him the offseason he was traded but that San Diego simply liked Cincy’s offer more. I wonder if D’Arnaud was on the table for those talks. It would be a shame if the Jays didn’t want to part with him at that time only to change course the next offseason.

    Oh well. It’s silly to think about it now but missing out on Latos eats away at me a little bit. I wish we knew what names the Jays were discussing.

    • I would imagine you are spot on about this… AA didn’t want to include “too many” top prospects in a trade for Latos. I think the same thing was said about the Gonzalez package.

      The dynamic of the market changed and AA had to start overpaying for questionable SP.

  12. They won their last home stand, and if they win the next 2 of 3 they are .500 on a mostly west coast trip.

    Considering the injuries and lack of performance by some I’m not ready to sell on this team yet.

    They are hanging in fucking tough.

    If they slip into the 12,13 games under .500 and beyond territory, then yeah, it’s just a matter of math and reality, but so long as they find a way to stay afloat until the injured return, and performances improve, I will continue to support this team as currently comprised.

    #stayontheboat

  13. jesuscristo = afdg = mendoza’s line = a cunt.

    Fuck off like you were told.

  14. The 2013 Rotation had a lot of potential but a lot of questions, which can be summarized thusly:

    Q: Could Dickey continue dominating after having three good years but still essentially coming out of nowhere?

    A: Not dominant, but not bad either – mixed results, and hopefully will get better.

    Q: Will Josh Johnson be able to come back from injuries and be as dominant as he was in the past?

    A: No.

    Q: Could this be the year that Brandon Morrow consistently puts it all together?

    A: No

    Q: Could the ageing Mark Buerhle compete in the AL East?

    A: Not very well.

    Q: Could RIcky Romero put 2012 behind him?

    A: Not even close.

    Q: Could Happ be a serviceable 5/6th starter?

    A: Yes, yay.

    • Wilner was fired up today.

      On a side note;

      Why is it Karl Sagan as of recently, with a C it was proper.

      • @fakeoakville69.

        What are you taking about.? I haven’t posted this

        Wilner called a bluejaysmessageboard poster a jackass & idiot on last night’s jaystalk.

        The caller said Wilner was a homer & attacked the poor pitching performances of the starting rotation.

      • Marxist joke from a while back.

        • @gsmc.

          Got it.

          Karl Marx vs Carl Segan, the astronomer/space guy on 1970′s PBS shows with turtlenecks.

  15. Walkoff hit by Travis Snider in extra innings!. Good Job Travis!!!

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_06_02_cinmlb_pitmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=pit

  16. Gonna be a barn burner tonight.

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