ScreamingRomer-woe

Today in unsurprising, yet surprising news, the Jays have made a few roster moves in order to get Brandon Morrow healthy and to shore up their overworked bullpen after last night’s howevermany inning marathon in San Diego. Back comes Ramon Ortiz, Morrow joins the long list of Jays on the DL, and Chad Jenkins goes down for Mickey Storey, but let’s not bury the lede too badly here: in order to get Ortiz on the roster, the Jays have outrighted Ricky Romero off the 40-man.

That means, of course, that any club could have taken Romero and the $7.5-million he makes this year, plus the $15.6-million he’s owed for the two seasons after that. Aaaaaaaand they didn’t. Because… obviously.

It’s a smart piece of business by the Jays, and not entirely shocking, but still a pretty damn strange thing to see in words.

The demotion of Jenkins might seem odd, too, after last night’s performance– though Petco certainly helped him– but with two off-days next week, it makes total sense.

Oh, and hey! Brandon Morrow’s hurt! Fucking great!

Comments (215)

  1. Huh? Why is Jenkins being sent down when Morrow is hurt? Makes no sense to me at all.

  2. oh God yesterdays game was horrible! The hours I could have spent sleeping and then the consequent hours I lost to nightmares about the game I just watched :(

  3. For fuck sakes!! Ortiz again?? Dont they have anybody better than that old as fuck shitballer. How many times does he have to show he doesnt belong in the majors? Also, got to say, morrow is really fucking brittle. How many different injuries has he had the past 2 seasons? 3 or 4 atleast. Im not sure they can rely on that guy to be healthy for a full season.

    • “Dont they have anybody better than that old as fuck shitballer. ”

      That’s healthy? No. Does any team?

    • You should be overjoyed that we even have Ortiz to fill in. Last year it was Jesse Chavez. Remember that start against the Brewers? This year we even brought Aaron Fucking Laffey back to completely implode for a game.

      As far as #7/8 starter shitballers go, Ortiz is about all I could ask for.

  4. Ugh, this team is a joke. What is going on? It’s not like this is a new thing. SP injuries have been haunting us for a few years now. Massive failure. Ramon Ortizis our new…#3? But could potentially be our new ace? Buehrle our ace? Dickey #3? Losing to the Padres? I’m so depressed. Fuck JP Arencibia too, that throw was the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen in my life. Him and Brett Lawrie are something out of a movie. Attitudes of superstars, fucking, skills of a backup C maybe and a utility infielder defensive replacement.

    • Yep, they got to look at what is causing all these pitching injuries. It cant all be bad luck. Some are like happ but others arent.

      • Look at the way a few of these pitchers were used by John Farrell.

      • So I was watching SN the other day and Zaun mentions that the Rays (for whom he played for a brief time) have had a total of 3 TJ surgeries on their team in the last 10 years. He then went on to say that they have an overall philosophy regarding pitchers (which has been mentioned before) and not rushing them is one aspect of it. Not only do they not rush them, they have a club policy that EVERYONE does a specific set of shoulder and elbow strengthening exercises a twice a week. They’re adamant about it and they keep records on who hasnt done theirs.
        It’s not hard to find but I came up with this:

        http://insidesportsillustrated.com/tag/tampa-bay-rays/

        In light of another wonderful season of injuries (including prospects Aaron Sanchez , AJ Jiminez), wouldn’t this kind of programme seem like a pretty good idea?
        There isnt a GM around who doesn’t think the Rays have done well in the last few years and specifically where it pertains to pitching. Why wouldn’t one of them, and particularly AA, start up something similar? At the very least they have the $$ to go out and hire someone away from the Rays.
        The old adage about draining the swamp when your up to your ass in alligators comes to mind….

        • I heard that interview with Zaun, too. He also explained his understanding that TB drafts pitchers with clean deliveries and focuses on fastball command; a focus that takes less of a toll on the pitchers’ arms. In contrast, the Jays draft big arms and focus on adding pitches with a lot of movement so they can get guys out despite not having great fastball command, thus enabling them to get to the show faster. Seems plausible, but is this the Jays m.o.?

    • Dude, if you can’t emotionally cope with the realities of baseball that happen to *every single team*, maybe baseball is not for you.

  5. What do you think the chances are a team picks up Romero’s contract?

    1%?

  6. This is why I’m so hesistant to throw AA under the bus just yet. He hasn’t had the benefit of a healthy team for like a year now

    • Like the Yankees this year? Or the Rangers missing Feliz, Ogando, Lewis and Soria for the beginning of the year?

      Stop the bullshit excuses. This team is awful because it’s badly put together, the players are losers, the GM has made disastrous trades year after year and it’s only going to get worse since we have no prospects of any kind now that Osuna AND Aaron Sanchez have blown out their fucking elbows in the last month!!!!!

      Even 2014 is looking pretty grim.

      • oh, and who else thinks Morrow will have Tommy John?

      • Yes. Disastrous work by the GM. Anybody with eyes could have seen that Vernon Wells, Lyle Overbay and Jason Nix were the wave of the future. How did we get someone who didn’t know to sign those guys?

        • “Some people are fortunate and some people are not, that’s existence for you.” – Clouddancer

          • How did that comment get placed in that chain? Now all I have to do is remember where the fuck it was supposed to go… or not.

        • AA is horrible.He’s never made a decent trade

          We would have been much better with Travis Snider’s 2 homers in RF, Brandon League’s 5.31 ERA , Hech’s .187 batting average & Nestor Molina’s 5.87 ERA in double A

      • “Disastrous trades year after year”? Relax. And please think about what the fuck you’re saying.

      • But Aaron think for a second if all the players performed up to their potential and there were no (avoidable) injuries. It’s my opinion that both are achievable.

      • It has been a disastrous 2013, but the prospects for 2014 are far from grim. If this team is unable to get itself in a position to make a run by the trade deadline, they will reshift their focus to 2014 and take advantage of logical trade bait in Josh Johnson and Mark Buhrle. Buhrle has a lot of coin in his contract, but there should be quite a few suiters willing to take on that contract come July. If JJ comes back healthy on Tuesday, his remaining few months should net something nice for the Jays as well.That leaves us looking for pitching, but, if the payroll stays where it is, it leaves with a lot of cash to spend on free agent pitchers, like Josh Johnson.

  7. Amazing really.
    Unexpected things happen during a season but nobody could have foreseen all this.
    And strictly statistically speaking,is it possible that the 2013 starting pitching staff could be the worst in the history of the franchise?
    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/31/worst-case-scenario-for-blue-jays-rotation

    Would not have believed it 2 months ago.
    It’s 1/3 of the way through the season and things are getting worse not better for SP.

    • It’s basically neck and neck with last year

      • Disagree.
        2013 is worse.
        Statisically anyway

        • Well the obvious point is that it has been disastrous both years.
          Now, what are they going to do about it?

          All those people who have been clammouring about trainors
          and programmes might not be wrong.

    • Radar:
      I mentioned in a post thge other day after the Dickey implosion, that we now have ALL 5 starters with ERAs above 5! Plus Romero, whatever he is at 100+
      It is beyond fuckin ririculous, it is absurd. Not even the 69 expos or 62 Mets had a collection performing this poorly. It will indeed, at the current pace , be the worwst collection of starters we have ever had.
      However, some of the ERA problem is due to our horrible infield defence which has minimal range, and misses many balls that are scored as hits that are outs on other teams and help inflate the ERA of guys like Dickey.
      As a former pitcher I can tell you that some of these pitchers are seeting at the piss poor defence ( never mind JPA as a catcher) bur being respectful teammates are not saying anything–yet.
      We need a MLB 2B and more pitchers of note-not sure where they are
      Forward Soviet!

      • 2fukstick.

        Very good points about poor defence.

        Dickey has Blanco at his request, so he can’t complain too much about JPA.

        AA gave up better defense last year with Kelly Johnson.

    • Radar….How is that possible…how could you?. Who in their right or left mind actually seeks out baseball news from the Toronto Sun?

      • @ Blueballz

        Weak moment and a lack of content, before this post,makes me poke around the interweb.
        Night_manimal and dm used to provide some decent links, off the beaten path.
        Plus, any baseball talk, is better than no baseball talk.

  8. If JPA is on pace for 35HR (with less ABs than the average position player) would some team underestimate how bad he is defensively and give us something of real value for him?

    • I think they would, PR would be good for a move like that. Could still bill him as a player with room to grow.

      • There’s a always a market for catchers who hit homeruns: (see John buck)

        • John Buck can catch.

          • Shoulda traded JPA to Miami and kept Buck – his numbers last year were better too. Maybe Cito had a point to keeping Buck in the line-up day in and day out, other than to inflate his hr #’s for a better free-agent contract?

            • Errr….not Miami, obviously as that’s where we acquired him from…..the Mets (yeah that’s the team)….They should have traded JPA to the Mets and kept Buck. (okay, insert dumbass comments now….)

    • It could be that he’s reached his peak in TO and would be better off with another team.
      The fact that he wont STFU about being a “leader”, indicates to me at least, that he thinks he’s doing fairly well. And that means to me that he doesnt take constructive criticism well.
      It’s very telling that both Martinez and Zaun criticize him both directly and indirectly.

  9. Today in Blue Jay right and left arm shittiness.

    Le sigh..

  10. Nightmare season 100% confirmed.

    I tried to wait it out with some hope but it’s a disaster now.

  11. I gotta say I really feel bad for Ricky…Work ethic has never been in question…just mind fucked…I hope he slithers into obscurity for a couple years only to triumphantly return from the Mexican leagues…

    • Also Kevin Pillar has a line of 323/379/468 with 5 hr and 14 steals so far…lets all just enjoy that instead of crying over spilt ligaments…

    • On the DJF podcast a few weeks ago they mentioned that Ricky wasn’t doing much extra practice in Dunedin, so they brought him back to Toronto to teach him a lesson.

      I find it shocking that Ricky has nothing physically wrong with him, yet he still can’t pitch.

      Could the “mental/emotional” issues be that severe that he’s out of baseball by next year?
      I almost wish that Ricky had a physical problem so that it could be explained better.

      • Where’s his Miss America girlfriend these days? Any thoughts his mental breakdown are related to her dumping his $30.5 million ass? (just asking…..)

  12. Don’t want to sound like a jerk but does Romero take a year off

    • I joked about it before but now I’m serious: he should do the Delabar weighted ball shit. And I know everyone will say “velocity isn’t the problem; it’s his location”. Well if his velocity was better maybe he wouldn’t have to throw at 100% and could focus more on location.

      I mean something is just making him throw meatballs. Can’t hurt to at least throw harder meatballs.

  13. fuck no, he needs to get laid and cum the demons out of his head!!!

  14. Yep, I had hope they could turn it around, and at least play meaningful ball in September. But at this point I think finishing .500 would be an achievement.

    • I’m assuming he’ll have an arm amputation judging by his injury record.
      Jokes aside, one of the awful things about diabetes is being a horrible healer. These injuries will catch up with him, if they haven’t already.

  15. if the jays shit the bed in 2014 does AA lose his job?

    • He should. I’m willing to write this year off, but next year….

      The Dickey trade is absolutely hilarious in the harsh light of games played.

    • As he should. Most of the players that he has acquired haven’t worked out. He’s rushed a bunch of pitching prospects and kept players like de rosa and blanco on the roster. The honeymoon is over

    • I think you have to accept that any GM given his position and those opportunities of the past few years would have taken them. It’s easy as shit to sit here and say he did a bad job in retrospect, but if that were true there would have been signs of him doing a bad job at the time, and there weren’t. Specifically, the only people upset about the Marlins trade were people on that side, not this side.

      Having said that, yes, a sub .500 record this year and next year would likely finish him off. It’s not the work he did that was poor, but the results still need to happen and he’ll go down with those results if that’s the case.

      • @anon,

        I think AA will stay till 2015 when the contracts for Bautista & Edwin expire.

        The team can begin the rebuild in 2016.

        I do wonder why the “tin foil hat brigade” was not attacked in this post for predicting that Morrow would not make his next start.

        The Jays injury predictions are comical.

        AA must take his lessons from Baghdad Bob.

        The problem with Morrow is that he gets hurt every year.

        Since Romero is off the roster, is he not eligible to pitch tonight for the Bisons?

    • You guys are insane. It’s a good team. That’s all he can do – put together a good team.

      Once you’ve done that, then you play and hope it works out. The results aren’t guaranteed. You’re competing AGAINST OTHER TEAMS FFS.

      If any of you even remotely got excited over the off season then HE DID HIS JOB. Nice of you to judge it with hindsight and SSS. Fuck sakes morons.

      • You’re right, let’s just give him a lifetime contract already.

        I can’t help but wonder what another GM would have done with the money Anthopolous was given to play with.

        He’s had some bad luck, no doubt, but ultimately you are judged on results and he’s sorely lacking in that category.

  16. Look at the bright side, 2013 will only happen once. You’re welcome!

  17. The miami deal is still good for us as Reyes > all and Buhrle has been our best pitcher so far.

  18. I’m not defending anybody, so please don’t anybody hear something I’m not saying. Injuries are, and always will be a part of this sport. Brandon Morrow is always hurt, and at some point in time we just have to accept that that’s what is and always will be. I like R.A. Dickey the person, but they should never have dealt for him based on one great season. The argument that he’s a National League style pitcher and his game is better suited for the NL went down the crapper when he got his ass kicked by the Braves in Atlanta the other night. Although some probably wish we still had D’Arnaud, don’t forget he has missed most of this season with a broken foot. D’Arnaud seems to be another guy who is good at getting injured. Brett Lawrie? Same deal. This is the 5th time in two years he’s been on the DL. Guys like JPA and Colby Rasmus are what they are. We shouldn’t be surprised by their shortcomings as we pretty much knew in advance what we had with those two. At the end of the day, I hold AA responsible for this team. This team is his idea and he is the architect. If I could ask him one question to his face, I’d ask him what the hell his was thinking with that 2nd base combination. My best friend follows baseball closer than I do. The day the Marlins trade went down he called me on the phone and asked me “what the heck do they want with Bonifacio? He’s a terrible baseball player”. One-third of a season later, I found out my friend was right. Sorry about the uneven rant folks, I just had to vent. Last night was more than I could take.

    • Fair enough. Everybody is frustrated, but look at the things you are pointing to in criticizing the GM.
      First, look at Dickey’s record for the past 3 years — he’s not a single year wonder. We signed Jose Bautista to a longer term, more expensive contract with a shorter track record than Dickey. And to date, we don’t know that we gave up anything for Dickey — we need to see what the other players amount to.
      Trade with Miami? Take Bonifacio out of it and it’s still fine, but Bonifacio gives bench depth beyond what we would have otherwise had. And barring injuries and Izturis playing as he normally does then that’s what role Bonifacio has. Below average bat and fielding the infield or outfield. You know that aside from this year and last, he has consistently been more valuable than John Macdonald, whom nobody ever complained about.
      It has definitely sucked – I agree, but trading for and signing Dickey, and including Bonifacio in the Miami deals are not indications of poor GM work.

      • Teams that are weak up the middle do not do well in baseball. It’s a golden rule and AA incorrectly assumed that offense would mitigate any defensive issues the team had at C, SS and 2nd.

    • 1) Dickey has had 3 great seasons in a row as a knuckleballer.

      2) Lawrie’s 2 DL stints have been due to freak injuries that have nothing to do with reckless playing. In fact, Gibby and DeRosa have seemingly reigned him in a bit.

      3) Of course we were going to stick with what we had in JPA and Cletus because the Jays had taken on a shittonne of money in the Marlins deal.

      4) While Bonifacio isn’t a fantastic baseball player, he is a good utility guy. Just look at his last full season. Also, he’s been improving at the plate over the last few weeks.

      • Eh, it’s baseball. After all of the injuries on the pitching staff last year you’d think the priority would of been to build a lot of extra depth in that area. They didn’t so now there’s no back up. Ortiz is attractive to them because he is completely disposable.

        I am frustrated with J P. Calling him a catcher is an insult to real catchers everywhere. I am not so upset with Rasmus. He brings a little more talent to the table and damn he has the prettiest easiest looking power swing when he connects. It would be just the Jays luck to trade him and have him another teams Jose Bautista.

        They should do a complete overhaul of how they evaluate and train their pitchers. They should reach outside the organization to get Ricky some help. It seems clear to me that if they knew how to fix him he’d be fixed.

        • How should they overhaul their pitcher evaluation and training? What specific process issues can you point to that need to be fixed? What specific process remedies do you propose that would likely improve results?

          Obviously nobody’s happy about pitchers’ UCLs fucking up — Jays’ training staff included — but saying “we need to blow everything up and try something different” without any idea of what needs change and what doesn’t is far more likely to make things worse rather than better.

    • @Jim,

      Very good points.

      My cousin went to school with him in Montreal at LCC. If AA ever shows up at a LCC Alumni event I will ask my cousin to ask him those questions.

      AA tried to go for broke in 2013 & theoreticaly speaking it should have worked.

      It made sense for AA to explain to rogers that 2013 is the year to spend $$$$ to compete while the yankees & red sox are down.

      Unfortunately, the opposite has happened. The jays rejects are helping the yankees.

      The Jays will have trouble getting to 3rd plce in the AL East this year.

      AA should be allowed to try again for 2014 with a few more $$$ to try & fix 2B.

      Kelly “I wont play LF” is playing LF for the Rays.

      • If 2014 goes to shit a la 2012 -13, there is a very high probability that AA + gibbons get canned

      • As well Oakville, AA will probably go all in again for 2014 as he gets the three tommy john pitchers back (Drabek, Hutch and Perez), and because its the last year of Melky’s contract

        • Of course AA is all-in for 2014. His all-in move was to have 3 consecutive seasons (2013-15) to go for a WS. Even though this year didn’t work out, there’s still 2014 & 2015.

      • Lookit, I still think this team can turn things around and said as much in a post on here two or three days ago. (It was in the story about Nick Cafardo). I’m just not sold on Dickey being a guy to build a staff around. Seasons of 11-9 and 8-13 prior to,last year are not great seasons to me. This pitching staff has got to turn things around or this year will be a disaster. Josh Johnson is playing for a big contract and he hasn’t won a game. I’d have bet my eye teeth he’d have a monster year this year, so I’ll give AA a mulligan there. I’ll tell you a story most of you probably don’t know. About 4 years ago I was listening to a Cleveland Indians pre-game show and the guest interview was Mark Buehrle. He said in the interview that he would probably retire at the end of his current contract because he just wanted to go home to his family and raise his children. I think he might have really done that save for the fact a team in the state where he lives gave him a monster contract. Getting traded out of there one year later wasn’t in his plan. I’ll grant you, he has pitched better of late, but I have to wonder to what degree his heart is in this whole thing. If it weren’t for the money, I’ll bet he’d retire. As for Kelly Johnson, once again I was listening to the Tribe last night and their announcers said he was told by the Rays he’d either play the outfield or he’d have no job. Funny what a guy will do to stay in the majors.

        Yeah, the Jays can still turn this thing around, but the starting pitching has got to come around and they better find a second baseman.

        • Using wins to try to prove that a pitcher isn’t great has just invalidated any bit of a rational argument you had previously put together.

          • That’s not entirely true. There is a reason winning 20 games is a big deal, you still have to be good to get a win, and the longer and better you pitch in a game, the more chance there is of that. Just because middle relievers tend to get the odd win, doesn’t make them bereft of value.

            • No. All a win means is that your team scored 7 while their team scored 6. A win is no determination of how good you are, just that you suck less than the other guy pitching.

            • +5000
              Name one bad modern era pitcher with 100+ wins
              You can’t do it

        • I remember that about KJ. He wasnt too happy about hearing via the grapevine he’d be asked to play OF from time to time and I guess he extracted a promise they wouldnt ask.

        • Jim, the Jays are not going to turn this year around.

    • The facts in your ramblings are largely correct, but your conclusions are largely horseshit. You found a theme, which is that MLB players sometimes get hurt and it’s shitty when they do, and voiced feelings that go far beyond what’s supported by the data.

      [snip]
      > Brandon Morrow is always hurt, and at some point in time we just have to accept that that?s what is and always will be.

      He seemed fine a few weeks ago.

      > I like R.A. Dickey the person, but they should never have dealt for him based on one great season.

      What makes you think AA dealt for him based on one great season and not the other two great seasons?

      > The argument that he?s a National League style pitcher and his game is better suited for the NL went down the crapper when he got his ass kicked by the Braves in Atlanta the other night.

      Arguments like that aren’t meant to be taken seriously. Neither is your rebuttal. You can’t judge a pitcher’s “game” on his performance on a single day with any kind of accuracy; the variance is just too high.

      > lthough some probably wish we still had D?Arnaud, don?t forget he has missed most of this season with a broken foot. D?Arnaud seems to be another guy who is good at getting injured.

      I’m happier with Dickey than D’Arnaud. I’ve got some faith that Dickey will turn things around in the next few years.

      > Brett Lawrie? Same deal. This is the 5th time in two years he?s been on the DL.

      He actually isn’t all that far from the norm for regular major-leaguers if you count days on the DL rather than trips to the DL. (Granted the average and variance are driven up whenever someone gets Tommy John.)

      > Guys like JPA and Colby Rasmus are what they are. We shouldn?t be surprised by their shortcomings as we pretty much knew in advance what we had with those two.

      Yup. Colby’s been pretty watchable this year. I can’t say the same about Cibia.

      > At the end of the day, I hold AA responsible for this team. This team is his idea and he is the architect.

      What the fuck does this mean? You almost certainly aren’t in a position to be holding AA responsible for anything. Do you just mean you’re going to start braying “fire AA” with the other goofballs real soon? (Please say you aren’t.)

      > If I could ask him one question to his face, I?d ask him what the hell his was thinking with that 2nd base combination.

      I dunno. It seemed reasonable at the time. You’ve got two athletic dudes who had success, both offensively and defensively, while playing second in the past. If one fails, you can just use the other. Right? Right???

      Sometimes even the best-laid plans go south.

      > My best friend follows baseball closer than I do. The day the Marlins trade went down he called me on the phone and asked me ?what the heck do they want with Bonifacio? He?s a terrible baseball player?

      He’s strong and athletic. He plays a bunch of positions. He runs fast. Really not a bad person to have on your bench.

      > One-third of a season later, I found out my friend was right.

      You’ve only seen him suck for a third of a season and you aren’t considering his past work. You haven’t pointed out any changes in his game (I mean changes in process, not changes in results) between now and when he didn’t suck, so you’re probably full of shit.

      > Sorry about the uneven rant folks, I just had to vent. Last night was more than I could take.

      Yeah, last night really sucked. I can’t figure out why the Jays weren’t hitting the Padres’ shittiest arms.

      • Hey, when youre that fucking awesome, you should not be anonymous. Great reponses. Fuck that guy.

  19. I thought 2012 was Nightmare on Blue Jay Way
    Now 2013 is the sequel – Nightmare on Blue Jay Way part 2

    Why don’t we get Freddy Krueger to do our telecasts?

  20. I luckily didn’t watch most of the game last night because I knew they were going to lose in the end. It’s just the same thing year after year after dreary year. Everyone knows it’s too late now and we have another injury plagued year filled with what ifs.

    I, for one, refuse to subject myself to this any further. I will not watch another game this year! I will not return to the site again this year!
    Furthermore, if the Jays don’t make it to 70 wins I will also refrain from watching next year too! I keep getting fooled into coming back but I’ve finally learned my lesson and refuse to do so again.

    I’m OUT!

    I encourage many of you to follow my lead and join me.

    • Didn’t you make this exact same post the other day? You’re like the boy that cried wolf

    • Later, hater………………………………..

    • No one misses a crybaby.

    • Ya know, if they don’t make it to 70 wins you might want to check out next years draft.

    • this all over when it’s over guy is hillarious … he used to piss me off, and now I can’t stop laughing every time he posts … why? because he’s funny and a lot of the whiners above are pathetic, so it’s what used to be called ‘comic relief’

    • You knew they were going to lose in the end? How much money did you make?

  21. Brandon Morrow is on the DL yet again. No big surprise as he is certainly prone to injuries. Also, he is very unreliable. Looks like the second coming of Walter Johnson one night and then looks like Josh Towers for his next three starts…..THEN onto the DL…..

    As for AJ Dickey…..He informed the press the other night, after yet another “marvelous” start….That he was going to find “IT.” Yep. He has lost IT and he was sure he was going to find IT…He is now 4 – 7 on the season and he is so hittable. Great guy, apparently, but a top of the rotation MLB pitcher? Really???

    So, to replace Morrow they bring up 40+ years old Ortiz…The SAME guy they just sent down. You mean to tell me that’s all they can do?

    This has gone from a circus to a disaster.

    • Cool it. Nobody keeps Kershaw and Verlander in AAA in case someone gets hurt. Ortiz is pretty much par for the course.

  22. Well, if Jose can manage to not go 0-8 again then i will be happy.. but damn that was aweful last night.

  23. Who is a trade candidate for the deadline other than JJ?

    • I actually thought Morrow wasa a trade candidate if we fell out of it as I don’t think he’ll ever be much more than a .500 pitcher and teams do overpay at the 7/31 deadline. Now, he’ll be like JJ , off and on rehabbing the rest of the year.
      Other than that, as i have said, if they are still last on July 1, then all bets are off and virtually any c/b trade although I personally wouldn’t expect much but I would expect him to trade ONE veteran to show this performance is not acceptable and my choice was Morrow.
      I think you could see Rasmus dealt if he continues hot and all the usual choices like LIND, Boni, Izzi and so on-collectively worth a dozen do-nutz

      • Just my opinion, but I think his diabetes effects him more than they know.
        With an athlete of his ability and his medical history. I’d be seeking out specialists in the field and finding out as much as I could. Bobby Clarke was a great example of a diabetic athlete who performed at the peak of his ability consistanly.

      • @fukstik.

        I think Johnson is the first to go. A trade for a prospect would be equal to what you would get for the compensatory draft pick.

        Colby would be second, since AA has a cheap replacement in Gose.

        Lind is only useful to AL teams.

  24. Would any other team dare try & claim Romero or get the Jay to pay 50% of his salary for the next years.

    Other ex Jays have been successful once they leave Toronto, so wouldn’t someone take a chance on Ricky Ro????

    • only team that would even have 1% chance would be the angels, due to their need for pictures and a endless payroll + he’s the hometown kid

      • @ Joe,

        That’s why I wonder if the Angels or Dodgers call up AA & tell him that they will pay 50% of Romero’s contract & take him.

        Pitching is very expensive, so Ricky at 15 million for 3 years is not a horrible investment.

        Does AA cut ties with Romero& admit failure?

        Does AA decide to keep Romero & hope for a improvement this year & maybe next year?

        • “Does AA cut ties with Romero & admit failure? ”

          In what world is Romero AA’s “failure”?

          Buehrle, Dickey & Johnson can be AA’s failure. Romero…not so much. AA’s biggest issue is that Ricciardi left him with a disgruntled Roy Halladay and not much else.

  25. Yeah, Perkins had it right yesterday when he asked if we couldn’t do a little better than Ramon Ortiz. I know Freddy Garcia is nothing special, but he’s at least healthy and tossing solid innings for Baltimore.

    I don’t know if I am some sort of sick masochist or something, but I enjoyed things more when I knew we were bad, and we had some prospects to look forward to seeing, even if they weren’t necessarily going to amount to anything. It’s really hard to watch this team completely fall apart. I’ve given up on Morrow; a few amazing starts in a few years is just not enough anymore, and I’m ready to let it go. He really is almost identical to Josh Johnson in so many ways.

    It’s very sad to have such a hopeful season go this way, but life will go on, and we still have Reyes, who, even though his contract is awful, is a really fucking good baseball player when he is healthy. You have to figure AA is just as disappointed as the rest of us, I mean it’s his ass on the line.

  26. Morrow shouldnt even be a starter thats why seattle morrow for brandon league. Morrow has been always a bandaid and always will

    • traded*

    • Considering the Phillies wanted Morrow in the Cliff Lee trade and then Seattle did an incredible job of mismanaging his development, I’d say Fuzz’s comments on Morrow are a wee bit idiotic. His numbers last year suggested he turned a corner and this year’s apparent regression is due to injuries more than anything else

      • fine now live and die wit a .500 record pitcher that is proned to injuries, guys like you should stfu we shouldve traded him while his value was up, no its on a steady decline

  27. Brad Arnsberg, anyone?

  28. Morrow being injured and Romero falling off the face of the earth does not equal FIRE AA!

    Considering the ridiculously good job AA did of rebuilding the franchise from 2010-2012, he has earned at least 3 chances at contention with a respectable payroll. If the Jays are still floundering after 2015 then it’s an actual conversation.

    I will say though that while the Marlins trade was great, the Dickey trade always made me a little uneasy.

    When the whispers of the Jays trading for Dickey began, I was all over the idea of building a package around JPA.

    But the idea of trading D’arnaud seemed like too much. And then Syndegaard definitely seemed like too much.

    TDA, Syndegaard + is the type of package that should have been used for someone like a Matt Latos or Gio Gonzalez, imo.

    I still have hope for this contention window. But the pitching will need a tweak. A 2014 depth chart of Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow, Happ, Hutchison, Nolin, Stroman, Drabek & Romero seems a (preferably durable) front of the rotation starter short. But there will likely be a solid group of AAA starters for a change which is huge.

    As long as Rogers remains committed to this contention window, the franchise is still in a much, much better position than it was 3.5 years ago.

    • @Jays2010.

      It will be interesting to see what Rogers does with payroll for 2014?

      Do they give AA an extra 25 million to go out & solidify the rotation, 2B, bench ?

      Do they tell AA to make an adjustments while keeping payroll stable?

      Do they reduce payroll?

      I am curios what attendance/tv ratings will be in July & August once school is out & the team is playing a bit better.

    • I’m on board with everything you said, pretty much. I think people are definitely forgetting that we have Drabek and Hutchison still coming back. The Morrow situation is much more serious to me; I’m guessing we just watched him pitch his last inning for a year and a half.

      Even still, we only gave up Brandon League for him, so it’s essentially a risk free situation. Dickey, on the other hand, I’m quite upset about. I think it was a huge mistake to trade youthful talent like that for a guy over 35. In fact, I don’t think I would ever do that in any situation, in any sport.

      • Common. Morrow pitching his last inning for a year and a half?

        Morrow cannot be counted as anything more than a #3 starter with the durability issues. But to just assume he needs TJ surgery, which is what I think you are assuming, is pointless.

        I know the optics wouldn’t be great, but I’d be okay with bringing back Josh Johnson and going with Dickey, Johnson, Buehrle, Morrow & Happ in 2014. Along with Hutchison, Nolin, Drabek, Stroman, Jenkins & Romero as the depth options.

        The good thing about Johnson’s injury is it will limit his bargaining power in free agency. A 1/14 qualifying offer or even something like 3/42 may be the best contract offers he receives.

        • @jays 2010.

          Does Rogers give AA 40 million for Josh Johnson?

          1/14 seems like the max to me.

          If I were Rogers, I would be weary of paying big bucks for players with bad injury histories.

          • I think whoever signs Josh Johnson should have the same expectations the Jays should have had in 2006 when they signed AJ Burnett.

            In other words, a quality #2 starter with durability issues. The difference being that Burnett was coming off a fairly healthy season heading into free agency. Johnson’s recent health issues could make him a bargain.

            If Johnson pitches 65-75 starts over 3 years, $40 million will probably be a decent investment. But it goes without saying that gambling on health is risky.

          • AA gives him a qualifying offer. I’m George Zimmer and I guarantee it.

      • @Moseby.

        I am hopeful that Hutch & Drabek can help the rotation.

        Aren’t the jays planning to bring Stroman up as a starter rather than reliever?

        There are still 100 games to watch, so I that will be some fun.

        Who will people on this board root for once the Jays are eliminated?

        I like the Rays. they remind me of the Montreal Expos.

        • I like the Rays ideology, but I can’t cheer for a rival. I generally adopt a national league team to run with in the playoffs.

          And yes, Jays 2010, I do think it’s possible Morrow needs TJ surgery. It’s not like I really have a reason to be optimistic, based on historical precedent.

      • Drabek fucking sucks. Stop with this fucking nonsense. This is his second TJ.

        • Man I thought I was a negative person, but you take that shit to a whole new level.

        • He’s fine as a #9 starter behind Hutchison, Nolin & Jenkins I’d say.

          • Rotations have 9 starters now? Drabek had a 1/1 KB/BB ratio before surgery btw.

            Just a heads up, he’s not getting bionic arm replacement surgery. He’s not all of a sudden going to be the fucking 6 million dollar man after this. He’s still going to be the dogshit pitcher he was before he was sent down. Get a grip.

            • Everything you described is fine for a #9 starter. He’s just a guy. Anything the Jays get from him now is a bonus and it would probably come out of the bullpen.

              I agree with you here that counting on Drabek to be anything is ridiculous. He and Hutchison both had elbow surgery. The comparisons stop there.

    • By what basis of “success” should AA be given the benefit of the doubt?

      AA has been a failure.

  29. I think we need a post about how bad most of the players we traded away are doing. It might lessen the misery around here.

    I did say “might”..

    • @South TO.

      I wonder if any ex Jays like Wells, Rios, Hill would be honest about any differences they see between the Blue jays coaching & training staff & the staff the teams they are on now.

      I do agree with other posters that the Jays should consider hiring The Tampa Bay Rays training & development staff as a way to improve performance.

      • Will gibbons be back for 2014?

        • @Joe.

          I think Gibby will be back.

          He hasn’t made any big errors with the bullpen, lineup on the field management.

          He’s pretty good with the media.

          The problems with the team’s performance aren’t caused by Gibby.

      • Agreed! It’s that easy. Just ask. I mean, that’s AA’s problem, right? He doesn’t ask hard enough. The mark of a great GM: asking. On a related note, I should win the lottery because I should be on a yacht sailing along the French Riviera as we speak. Shouldn’t that be the truth? I guess like AA, I should just ask OLGC to hand me the next $50 million jackpot.

        • You know whats funny? When my kids said “derp” i gave her shit for talking like an idiot. Is it just me who wants to punch people when they make that sound? (I can’t even call it a word.

  30. Starting to get a little concerned by all the injuries the Jays are having.

    I still think we have a good roster; but how many games has our healthy roster played together so far this season?

    This is the second season in a row we’re getting screwed over by injuries. I realize that it’s still possible this is all just a statistical fluke, but at some point you have to ask what the training staff is doing wrong.

    • @canard.

      I agree. I thought the excuse in the past about injuries is that the Jays were rushing young players to the MLB.

      Now the Jays have veterans who are getting hurt.

      Reyes & Happ were freak injuries. Morrow is usually hurt.

  31. There have been some atrosciously ridiculous comments in this section today.

    Lets just get a fucking grip. The team is fine, Anthopolous is a good gm. Lets just get some perspective:

    1) The Dickey trade remains a sweet move. Dickey will eventually be able to throw his hard knucklball and luck will even out. He will be a star pitcher for us for the next 3 years.

    2) The injuries are pure luck. Nothing can be done about it and anyone who thinks differently has no clue what throwing a ball as hard as you can actually physically does to a persons arm.

    3) The season is no where close to over. We still havn’t had a great winning streak, but we are playing pretty decent.

    4) JP Arrencibia is not great, but its not like he’s horrible, but last nights mistake didnt really cost us the game. If you cant score more than 3 runs off San Diego in 17 wins you don’t deserve to win.

    5) Just because Lawrie is a protoctypical reason why people hate jocks doesnt make him a bad player. In fact he has a chance to be pretty great and giving up on a 22 year old is ridiculous considering most 22 year olds dont even play in the MLB. or 23 whatever.

    6) Rasmus is quietly having a pretty good year – 9 hrs, 26 rbis and a 250 avg out of the 7 hole. Plus superb defense. If he ever learns to walk he will be a star. Again, why give up on him now.

    7) People saying AA has made bad trades are idiots. All of his trades are pretty good and that includes getting anything for Travis Snider. Who, the Jays didnt “ruin” he just happens to suck pretty bad at baseball. Someguys just can’t make the adjustment to not being the best player on their team anymore like they were their entire lives.

    8) I like how people automaticaly assume worst case scenerio with Morrow. He was going to pitch tomorrow until about five mins ago, so logically he is probably back in two weeks or less.

    9) If you need some optimism the Jays will add Lawire (starting to turn it around) Johnson, Reyes, Morrow, Drabek, and Hutchison within the month.

    10) Finally, I just want to end this by saying anyone who says things like “Dickey is a NL pitcher; he can’t handle the american league. hes old. hes done. hes….” Is a fucking idiot. That trade was and remains exactly what Toronto fans have wanted their team to do for years. So, unless you like trading players every time they start to become good, shut the fuck up.

    In conclusion, Time will prove that luck and nothing else has been against the Jays so far this year. Their roster is good and if anything, all they need is a second basemen and maybe a catcher and perhaps a right handed hitting power bat for the bench. but AA clearly knows this and will start working on it as soon as teams agree to start making trades with him.

    • Colby has a 7.6% walk rate. Not Bautista-good, but not JPA-bad either. The gigantic holes in his swing, on the other hand, are the biggest thing holding him back at the moment. Although I have to say his swing looks better lately. Overall, I’ve really enjoyed watching him this season.

      “JP Arrencibia is not great, but its not like he’s horrible”
      He might not be horrible, but he still fucking sucks. He has a .250 OBP, for crying out loud! The only thing keeping him anywhere close to league average are the home runs, currently powered by 21.4% HR/FB rate. And his defense.. ugh.

      • I wonder if eventually they’ll get him to step back in the box to have more time to see the ball. He was fucked around when he came up and last year returned to the position in the box that he was successful in mashing lesser pitchers and it worked for a few nanoseconds before the pitchers found out they can get him out because he gives them the advantage even though he tries to look scary up there … I might be imagining things (it’s happened before) but I think he is actually farther back now than a month ago … getting stuff like this to happen with a modern, younger player are not easy or straightforward …

        • Jim there’s no way in the world you will see Hutch and Drabek within a month.

          Regarding injuries and “pure luck”: If the Rays can limit their TJ surgeries to 3 in the last 10 years wouldn’t you be interested in their programme? The Jays had 3 TJ’s last season alone and at least 4 other major surgeries that I can think of in the last 3 years. ( Casey Janssen, Sergio Santos, Jesse Litsch, Dustin MacGowan, Shaun Marcum)

          • No, I would not be interested in their program because its a total fluke and besides, you don’t have all the information. Maybe they don’t ever draft, sign or trade for players with any of a dozen possible future indicators. This might lead to cutting down on injuries but it also means you dont get those high risk payoffs either. Theres so many factors but the main one is that throwing a ball 90 miles an hour makes your arm bleed internaly and its really bad for you.

      • Jp hits his homeruns but I dont think he calls a good game though id trade him and a prospect for Weiters anyday of the week. a great catcher is a guy who studies batters weakness’s and makes the pitcher look good too jp doesnt do anything like that

        • How could you have any clue how much he studys or what he knows? Surey he is not as bad and ill prepared as people make him out to be. He’s not spectacular but he isn’t exactly costing us wins either. I mean, the difference between a major league player calling a good game and a bad game has to be marginal at best. Its not like pitchers and coaches have no input. Even the worst big league game caller is not hurting his team to the point where his 11 hrs wouldnt more than make for it.

      • Rasmus is on pace for a 3 WAR year. He isn’t the fucking problem.

    • You also forgot to mention Lind. He has a .383 wOBA and 141 wRC+. I mean, what the fuck? :)

    • While I agree with you on most things, I think the Dickey trade was certainly debatable.

      Sure, we were all happy the Jays were finally making a push. But that was a lot to give up for Dickey.

      And 2013 is Dickey’s “bargain” year. I fully expect him to be better. But I doubt the $24 million the Jays owe him from 2014-2015 will look like a “bargain” at the end of the year. More like fair value.

      • I don;t think its debatable in the slightest. You have a roster you can definatley say is a contender (and their players like Colby, Lawrie, Gose, JPA only getting better) and you ad a reigning Cy Young winner. Theres no downside. If you arent going to ad a cy young pitcher after making a 1 in a million type trade to add a top 5 potential player to your other top 5 potential player and whatever Edwin might be (an MVP? , well not with Cabrerra and Trout around, but still..) then when exactly would you take that shot? YOu cant hope to just magically have all your prospects become good at once you know. No debate the Dickey trade is a 5/5 on the success scale even if dickey fails.

    • @Big Jim.

      You make some interesting poiints.

      The ” team is fine” comment is too Stoetenish.

      The team’s performance this season is “not fine”

      Given the Jays record on disclosing injuries, only naive fans would assume he would pitch tomorrow. Tommy John surgery or some surgery is likely.

      Jays waited a couple of months before they decided to set up Tommy John surgery for Hutchison.

      Jays played similar games with Surgery Santos.

      I think most people on this board accept what the team has to offer this year but the time to be condescding to fans ended in early May.

      The team is barely above 500 in games since the May 4th bottom.

      Wilner ‘s new meme is 13-10 since May 4th , which would be wildcard competitive if you forget the 10-21 record in April..

      • “Tommy John surgery or some surgery is likely.”

        Do you wonder why people think you are an idiot? Comments like the one above.

        • @Jays2010.
          I think you are naive because forearm soreness is often a precurser of Tommy John surgery. Could be another surgery.

          Why don’t you pay atention to the Jays.

          Santos was on his back according to AA & boom,he ends up having surgery.

          Why don’t you read what happened to Surgery Santos last year, & Hutch, where tey waited a couple of months before having him get Tommy John.

          At the very least we won’t see Brandon Morrow till July.

          Your personal insults are tiresome.

          I fully expect the Jays to go slow, & give us some encouraging signs that Morrow is “feeling better” etc.. The bad news should arrive in a couple of weeks.

          Look at Josh Johnson this year. He went on the DL on April 29th , but had not pitched since April 21.

          • While you may be right that forearm soreness is often a precursor to TJ surgery, it does not follow that the majority of forearm stiffness cases lead to TJ surgery or some surgery.

            How dare you call me naive! The personal insults are tiresome Oakville!

            You fucking idiot.

            • @Jays2010.

              I like mixing it up with you. Naive is pretty tame comment but whatever.

              Look, I hope Morrow is OK, & only needs a month off, but I am so used to bad news about the Jays, that I expect Morrow ‘s visit to Dr Andrews.

          • Youre logic is ridiculous. Soreness is a precursor to surgery in every single case. However, just because all things that get surgically repaired are sore, dose not mean that everything that is sore needs to be surgically repaired. Youre logic is seriously insane. It has nothing to do with being naive. There is no conspiricy where the jays undersell injuries. WHat happenes is that a doctor gathers information and then makes a guess. Medical science is not exact. There is no way you can say 43 days and seven hours until he pitches again. What happens is players take options a, b and c before they even consider surgery.

    • sry big jim but the season is over 10 games back the american east is no fucking joke. I betcha we’ll put up a nice run but the month of april will cost us in the end. i was always uneasy with Gibbons, he has alrdy cost us a few games with his managing decisions, he just seemed to let his players do whatever they wanted like for an example letting them hack away like lumber jacks live and die by the homerun. Now we see plate disipline by the bluejays which they are seeing more pitches and thats what great ball teams do like the yanks and red sox they wear out your starter. when we missed out on francona to cleveland I really wanted ozzie guillen to manage this team, he doesnt take any bullshit and thats what we need like for an example if you stole 2nd base and got thrown out without getting the green light ozzie would bench you for doing a stupid mistake

      • IM sorry but Ozzie Guilen is a waling shit show and if the team was struggling as badly as it has been the ire of the ill informed would have been calling for his head already. Or louder, since those morons appearently do exist. I would love to hear you call in with this argument and get eviscerated by Wilner……I mean, Gibbons is fine, sure you noticed when he made a bad decsision, but did you notice or account for all the good ones he also made? No of course not.

    • The team is fine?

      The team is in last place with a 22-32, a team that was supposed to compete for a playoff spot.

      This year (along with last years) have been FUCKING FAILURES!

  32. Vernon Wells has a .615 OPS in May while going 6/40 in his last 10 games played. He regressed to his expected level, just like everyone that isn’t a SSS chicken little idiot predicted. I’m tired of people going nuts over Vernon Wells, he had 3-4 good weeks and now he’s barely replacement level, as expected.

    The team has been missing arguably its best player if not undoubtedly one of its top two players for almost the entire season. Of course they’ve been shit. The pitching staff has been a disappointment but nobody could have predicted Happ’s freak injury or Morrow’s injuries.

    Buerhle is rounding into what was expected. Johnson has been injury prone the last few seasons. But would I do that Marlins trade again? 100%. 5 years of Jose fucking Reyes, which people seem to forget all the time. I’m sure everyone is missing Hech, Yunel, Marisnick (231/287/365 in 26 games at AA with a 33/5 K/BB). DeSclafani has been great in A+ ball and Nicolino has been solid but there’s no guarantees they ever pan out into anything.

    Arguably the only player you’d want back in that entire deal is Mathis. The Blue Jays have been cursed with a lot of bad luck. AA has made some very solid moves to try and field as competitive a team as possible and bad luck has been there. As it is with all these injuries. There were no signs of an injury of this type to Morrow prior to his last start. The best thing to hope for is that its minor, and then remember that next year there’s a solid crop of pitchers the Jays have under contract and a chance to continue competing. Boston’s pitching shit the bed last year and its rebounded. Toronto’s pitching can do the same.

    • You most certainly could of predicted a Morrow injury. The man is not a bastion of good health.

      It looked like Johnson might of started putting his injuries behind them. Sucks that he ran into some new ones.

    • Morrow wasn’t looking that great even when he wasn’t injured, though. A few great starts, but incredibly inconsistent. Certainly not as dominant as he was last year.

    • I’m surprised no one is bemoaning the loss of John Buck one of the Mets best hitters … and I can’t help but wonder if keeping Blanco up is to try to get Someone, Anyone, to teach JPA how to call games …

      • @smelly dog.

        I wonder if JPA listens to any other veteran catchers.

        • sadly I believe he only listens to his own imagination, BUT maybe Blanco whispers spanish and it will eventually seep in … we can only hope and pray something gets through because I want to see pitches that work repeated, not some wise-assed otherwise …

          • @smelly Dog

            +1. I think JPA thinks he is a #toptencatcher, but doesn’t have the performance to back it up.

            He hits a few clutch HR’s now & again.

    • @damn

      You make some good points.

      We only saw Reyes for 10 games or so.

      Furthermore the rest of team wasn’t clicking, so it didn’t really give the Jays extra wins.

      As for Vernon, Overbay Nix etc, the Yankees built up a solid bank of wins with the Jays B team.

      Once Rodriguez,Texeira ,Jeter come back the team will improve.

      It could be enough to get the Yankees to a wildcard or division win.

    • Bad luck is an excuse for LOSERS!

  33. Breaking: Brandon Morrow.

    Because he always is, unless he’s broken.

    That Dickey deal looked questionable when it was done, and looks like complete shit now. Lesson learned; never buy high on a pitcher with a fickle pitch, putting up great numbers in a pitcher’s park.

    • They didn’t buy high and it doesn’t look like shit.

      • still too early to tell on RA … it’s possible that the AL hitters know better what to do and the other night Atlanta put all their slap hitters in against him … it’s Possible, that it might turn out bad, BUT it’s also enjoyable to hear an athlete who doesn’t ramble on about how blah, blah, blah … he Admits he does not Have IT right now, and thinks he will find IT … he talks about pitching being about “feel” and we can’t expect him to go too far into revealing all his secrets to everyone, but that certainly is a better explanation for what I see when I’m watching a game, then all the talk about “control” which seems to be pretty inconsistent for even the best pitchers … the ones with a good feel for the ball say they have their best stuff and when they don’t have as good a feel, they say they do not have their best stuff.

        So maybe he get’s back to having IT … the velocity is creeping up and the pitches are not wandering out of the zone as much and for fucks sake, keep the roof shut in TO when he pitches … let’s control the kinds of variables we can … baseball is full of uncontrollable variables and for a knuckleballer that is all multiplied … it’s been discouraging watching it so far, but probably 20 more starts and we’ll have a much better picture of this pitcher.

    • I think the lesson is more about how normal clear thinking intelligent people can go about ignoring sheer madness and stupidity. You are so off base with your analysis that I would strongly suggest you do some reading and take a critical thinking class before posting again.

  34. Enough negativity folks, here is an interesting and inspiring story on the chinless wonder.

    May he fully recover:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9325841/innovative-thoracic-spine-surgery-revives-david-cooper-career-hopes

  35. Ricky Romero having a great tart by his new standards.

    3 innings, 4 ER 5hits 1 Strikeout & no walks!!!!

    Good Job Ricky!! In the 3rd inning, Ricky did not give up any runs.

    #baby steps.

  36. Since many people are so depresssed about the Jays, specifically about the rotation, and we found out today that not a single team would take on Ricky Romero’s entire contract, let’s play a game.

    Could the Jays give away their 5 most expensive starters for 2014 RIGHT NOW?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ah4PW47PiAi-dEZTVThQdHRaV0dIanNORDBtaDZFY3c&output=html

    Starting at the top, ace shitballer Mark Buehrle is up to a lot of his shitballing antics. His strikeout percentage is higher than it’s been in nearly a decade. But the walk percentage is also up. As is the HR/FB ratio, though that’s been coming back down lately. And, so far, the FIP gods are paying him back for a decade of defiance.

    Prognosis: The Jays would have to eat around $15 million to make Buehrle go away RIGHT NOW.

    RA Dickey is a gentleman. And a shitballer of a different persuasion. While the knuckleball gives him a young man’s arm, he still has an old man’s body. The strikeout percentage is way down, the walk percentage is way up and the HR/FB is also up. And the FIP gods apparently don’t give a shit that he throws a knuckleball because they don’t like him so far, either. At this moment, no team would be willing to give the Jays back a top 20 prospect (TDA) and a top 50 prospect (Syndergaard). Still, he only makes $5 million this season.

    Prognosis: The Jays could get back $10 million to make Dickey go away RIGHT NOW.

    In other words, the Jays would likely have to eat a little bit of money to dump Buehrle and Dickey together.

    This is the 4th year in a row Brandon Morrow’s strikeout and walk percentages have gone down. While it’s nice to see the walks go down, the high strikeout percentage was the only reason to get excited about him in the first place. The question about his durablity two years ago seems to have been answered in a bad way. He still may be a guy whose FIP outperforms his ERA. But he still has theoretical upside and is on a decent contract.

    Prognosis: The Jays could get back $5 – $10 million to make Morrow go away RIGHT NOW.

    Ricky Romero has performed at an unplayable level since 2012. In his favour, he was a #2 innings eater from 2010-2012. And he’s being paid to perform like a #4/5 starter. While we know for a fact that no team would take on his contract for free, one would think a team (perhaps in the NL) would take a chance on him as a reclamation project.

    Prognosis: The Jays would have to eat around $5 – $10 million to make Romero go away RIGHT NOW.

    In other words, I think a pitching-starved team would take on Romero’s entire salary if Morrow was attached to him.

    And these were the two surplus-value pitchers to build around two years ago. And that’s after one of the “big 4″ members Shaun Marcum was traded for Canadian Jesus and another big 4 member Brett Cecil shunned starting pitching in favour of the bullpen. Eventually.

    JA Happ was pitching well in April. He had a poor May start followed by a scary injury. While I think he had some surplus value prior to the injury and thankfully it appears he is healthy aside from the knee injury, he remains on the DL.

    Prognosis: The Jays would not have to eat any money, but would not get anything significant back to make Happ go away RIGHT NOW.

    Josh Johnson is owed about $8.5 million for the rest of the season. He has upside, but has a terrible ERA and has been injured for most of the season. A team like the Dodgers or Angels would probably take on the entire salary. But he needs some major league starts if the Jays actually want to get something back useful for him.

    In conclusion, a rotation that probably had 4 surplus value starters (Dickey, Johnson, Morrow & Happ), 1 neutral-ish value starter (Romero) and 1 negative value starter (Buehrle) before spring training could probably not be given away RIGHT NOW.

    2013!

    • @Jays2010.

      Your post on the Jays starting rotation is very negative.

      • While I honestly believe the Jays couldn’t “give away” their entire rotation right now, it’s largely because of the health predicament the Jays find themselves in (aside from Romero).

        It literally would be selling low on every single pitcher in my mind. So it goes.

        • @jays2010.

          I doubt AA gets rid of the entire rotation but I take your point about the problems.

          Would this team be better off with Carlos V& Henderson Alvarez?

    • Regardless of what Stoeten says or thinks, this team is looking at a rebuild. Too many “ifs” were answered negatively this year. The team has absolutely no fucking depth and the roster is filled with a bunch of “injury” riddled, pay-cheque collectors.

      What are we going to be asking ourselves next year?

      We can win the World Series IF:

      Drabek can throw a strike.
      DIckey can get a strike-out.
      Romero gets laid.
      Buehrle sneaks a pit bull into the dug out.
      Santos receives successful arm replacement surgery.
      Morrow learns to string together two consecutive good outings.
      Bautista stops pouting.
      Cabrera’s legs heal.
      Reyes can stay healthy.
      JPA takes at LEAST 10 walks over the course of a year.
      The bench consists of actual major leaguers and not just mascots.
      Lawrie, Maicer and Emilio all suddenly learn to fucking play.

      Lot of “IFs” here.

  37. This is the worst rotation in God knows how long. Romero made his bucks and forgot to play immediately afterwards. Same pattern with Dickey. Interesting?

    • @jesus.

      Ricky only gave up 5 runs tonight through 5 innings & did not walk anyone.
      This is progress.

  38. Oh…okay…cardiac time….

  39. Come on Boni…DON’T GIDP

  40. “The time was jumped perfectly”

    Buck pulls a perfect spoonerism

  41. Two months into the season and let’s be honest: realistic best chance is an outside hope on the 2nd wild card – and that’s a stretch. Too many things have simply gone wrong to believe the team can suddenly pull it together.

    Starting pitching has just been historically bad. I suppose there is some reason to think Dickey, Buerhle, and Johnson might regress back to their career norms, but still, it’s unlikely any of them will end up with good seasons.

    As for the lineup, it’s been OK. It’s unfortunate that Rasmus will never be a star, but a guy who gives you great defense and hits homers has value hitting the 250ish he’ll probably level out at. Can’t say the same about JPA – he’s Dave Kingman with a huge ego. IF he was a good defensive catcher, his inability to hit might be tolerable, but he isn’t and it’s not. Also getting fed up with Lawrie who is starting to remind me of Russ Adams. Good rookie call-up, but really, what’s he done since? The talent is there, but it still isn’t happening on the field.

    I think Gibbons has actually done a good job. He’s managed Lind well (who shows he is valuable, if used correctly) and he’s done a good job, by and large, with the bullpen.

    Given that he largely dumped garbage in the trades (at least so far – if some of the prospects turn out, it could look very different in a couple years) , I can’t say AA’s done a terrible job, but he also hasn’t been great. I can’t see how 2014 isn’t do or die for him. I do hope he can pull in some talent at the trade deadline. Frankly, there isn’t anyone I wouldn’t listen to offers for.

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