Toronto Blue Jays v Tampa Bay Rays

Seriously, how the hell were the Jays actually ahead of the Rays at one point less than a month ago. I guess that’s what another 7-14 stretch will do to you when you play in a division this tough, but… man. Brutal.

Also: the Jays starting pitchers, by FanGraphs, have been exactly replacement level in July– tied with Minnesota with a MLB-worst 0.0 WAR, and second worst in ERA, just ahead of the Padres, and FIP, just ahead of the Astros. No wonder Todd Redmond has fit right in, eh?

It can only get better, at least. And knowing this will perhaps help you put all the fuckhead running out of fingers to point about what’s wrong with this team in their place: it’s the starting pitching. There are weaknesses elsewhere, but they’d look far less glaring if not for the shit starting pitching. (In July the Jays are the 11th best hitting team by wOBA and wRC+, which is about exactly where they are for the season, too. Certainly not perfect, but it’s not anywhere close to what’s killing them.)


The Globe and Mail can’t find any women fans who actually like the sport of baseball, apparently. Which… I get that it’s a piece about casual fans, but come on.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at theScore.comAnd for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with theScore app

Toronto Blue Jays

SS Jose Reyes (S)
RF Jose Bautista (R)
DH Edwin Encarnacion (R)
1B Adam Lind (L)
CF Colby Rasmus (L)
3B Maicer Izturis (S)
C J.P. Arencibia (R)
LF Rajai Davis (R)
2B Brett Lawrie (R)

LHP Mark Buehrle

Tampa Bay Rays

CF Desmond Jennings (R)
SS Ben Zobrist (S)
3B Evan Longoria (R)
RF Wil Myers (R)
2B Ryan Roberts (R)
1B Sean Rodriguez (R)
DH Luke Scott (L)
C Jose Molina (R)
LF Sam Fuld (L)

RHP Jeremy Hellickson

Comments (186)

  1. Am I the only one watching or what the fuc k ?

  2. I think that’s the point of the G&M article.
    Even people who aren’t baseball fans are catching the buzz and are going to the game because it’s an event.It’s entertainment.
    I know it’s difficult but hardcore fans need to accept that casual fans will be attracted to it it for whatever reason.
    It’s better than apathy.

    • Casual fans are the ones who matter when it comes to gate receipts.

      • And television ratings and apparel sales and pre and postgame shows,etc.
        We all start somewhere.First is curiosity,then interest then a thrist to find out more.
        And we are all at a different stage of knowledge and learning about the game.
        It’s ongoing.
        As an example, would the 2013 Stoeten discuss baseball with the 2006 Stoeten?
        That’s not a knock against Stoeten but he is much more knowledgeable now then then.
        And probably more so, 5 years from now.

        • Pretty sure Stoeten’s not railing against casual fans attending games, but rather at the broad characterization in the G&M piece that newer female fans are not there for the baseball, but rather the cute butts and $11 tallboys or something.

        • I don’t disagree with your sentiment, but once teams start to suck or lose their hype, attendance generally does drop. Perhaps it’s better to see casual fans as improving the good times and hardcore fans as keeping the team going in bad times?

          • Absolutely.
            What justify’s the increase in payroll and investment in the team, is the content across all platforms that is Jaystalk,baseball central,Jays Express,etc.
            Without the casual fan and the finge fan ,that content doesn’t exist.

  3. I’m apathetic about apathy

  4. So Rogers has decided that the gravy train has ended and that to be able to watch the Blue Jays on Rogersondemand – you need to subscribe to SportsNet One for tv. I can’t believe how shortsighted this company is in regards to this issue. Its incomprehensible why they would knowingly piss off a bunch of subscribers by nickle and diming them.

  5. Anybody have any idea what time they’re likely to start the Delgado ceremony tomorrow?

  6. Hellckson is making this awful. They should put him on a clock

  7. I like that the Jays are finding new ways to fuck themselves.

  8. lol. Man this team just cannot play fundamental baseball, period.

  9. This team is so fucking painful to watch… honestly it’s torture

  10. Nothing like starting up the firepit, drinking beer in the sun and watching dysfunctional baseball.

  11. I’m out

  12. 2013. Just when you thought 2012 was a clusterfuck.

  13. Let’s try Lawrie at 2B, they said.

    What’s the worst that can happen, they said.

  14. sounds like boos wtf wrong with these fans.

  15. knew Lawrie at 2nd wouldn’t work….leave the kid at 3rd, let him get his bat going and quit fucking around with him ffs.

    Izturis is fine at 2nd

  16. Anyone have a link to a stream for the game today? I usually watch on rogers anyplace but the persons account that I use does not subscribe to sportsnet 1, and from what a gather, you now have to have a sportsnet 1 subscription to watch any games online now.

    • I don’t stream but these are the ones that people talk about.

      remember to turn on your adblocker

  17. I’m so sick and tired of being sick and tired, I got sick today but got tired and went to sleep.

  18. Tiger Tiger Woods y’all!

  19. It’s not my fault I was moved from a position I excel at.

    I was already struggling at the plate, now I have to learn a new position?

  20. I’m fucking tired of the armchair gm’s who think they are king shit

  21. Fuck. This team. (Fist shaking)

  22. I think you guys are going to start to believe me when I say AA and the front office don’t know what they are doing. Also, that they think defense means nothing. I’ve watched Baseball got 35 years and I’ve never seen a move make so lite sense than what they did with Lawrie. I don’t get it

    • Well shit! You’ve watched baseball for 35 years! How come no team has made you a GM yet?! It’s a travesty of justice, I tell ya!

      • You know what? I have watched movies for about 30 years. I think Stephen Spielberg could benefit from my advice.

        • I’ve eaten food for 35 years, look out Gordon Ramsay!

          • I got you all , beat. I’ve been eating food for 46 years, movies for 40, watching baseball since ’73 with the old Expos. How come nobody asks my opinion? PS to George Lucas..leave Star Wars alone.

    • Chill out man. It’s a numbers thing. Like AA I’ve got 20 years on Yahoo Fantasy Baseball. He knows what he’s doing. Look for Buerhle and Dickey to give us lots of value going forward. Best 4/5 in the league!!

    • They want the flexibility to bring in a third baseman, if one becomes available. You’re judging Lawrie on an incredibly tiny sample here, which if you have watched baseball for 35 years you should understand doesn’t tell us much. I’m sure it makes you feel all warm and gooey inside to pointlessly say the front office doesn’t know what it’s doing, so I guess you’ve got that going for you.

      • Sounds like more excuses from AS for the Blue Jays management.

        • Hey give the man some turf cred. Seriously. 35 years I tip my hat.

          Brett Lawrie is being jacked around a bit like a wedding night cock.

          Give the man some confidence via a permanent position. I agree. Fuck around with this and his confidence, yeah even Lawrie, can go as strong as a Rob Ford crack toke on film.

  23. @MurphyBruno: #Reds scout watching Buerhle, charting every pitch he throws, closing book when #BlueJays batting

    • Has Kevin Gray confirmed this yet?

    • It would depend on how much of the contract the Jays would have to pay. If they could simply dump Buehrle’s contract on the Reds (or anyone), that would be kinda great.

  24. On a different note the number of idiot fans is really sad

  25. Nice catch

  26. This team is crushing my soul.

    • The Canadian Bar Association didn’t extract yours as per usual?

      • Little by little I suppose. I was kind of waiting for a crack about lawyers even having souls…

        This team just defies rational analysis. Everything tells me that they should be better than they are, but they just aren’t doing it. Meanwhile, everything the Rays and Red Sox touch turns to solid gold. Just incredibly frustrating.

        • I agree that the Red Sox being this good is what makes the whole thing that much more frustrating. I hate those fuckers so fucking much! I look up and down their shitty team and I can’t figure it out, with the exception of a few guys they seem to me like shit from the trash heap in 2008.

  27. stephen harper wants the expos back. That’s neat

  28. whoa, who’s that dude with the swag ‘stache on the Rays’ bench

  29. I’m at work, so I’m kinda keeping track of the game on the Yahoo Fantasy Stattracker.

    So. Guess I’m glad I’m at work? From the sounds of it shit is really bad.

    I only missed watching like 6 or 7 games in the first half, but I gotta say I’m losing the emotional fortitude to continue watching this garbage. I think this series indicates fairly clearly that we can be sellers at the deadline, and keep the core together.

  30. jesuscristo, stop trying. It isn’t happening.

  31. At least the beer is cold.

  32. This is a typical buehrle esque outing. Yet, the offense could only muster 2 runs against a similarly mediocre starter. Starting pitching is far from the only problem with this team.The production from the bottom half of the lineup is atrocious. Not to mention, they really struggle to score without hitting homers. Not being negative, just stating what i see.

    • The issue with this team is pitching. Period.

      • Defense too but we all knew that going into this season. The pitching with lots of strikeouts from Dickey, JJ and Morrow was supposed to compensate for that.

        • Fangraphs backs this up.
          The Jays’ rotation is near the bottom of the 30 teams in just about
          every category Including the following:
          HR/9 1.42 -29th IP 520.2 – 29th ERA 5.08 29th FIP 4.85 29th
          BB/9 3.22 -25th K/9 6.52- 27th

      • Which is so bewildering considering I would have said at the beginning of the season that pitching would have been far down the problems list.

      • Agreed. But I still wish they would cash in more, with men on base..

      • The bases loaded with no outs bottom of the 7th called- they want their starting pitching back.

    • Agreed. The starting pitching is what’s making this team BAD, but the bottom half of the lineup is really dragging the top half through the mud.

      • It’s really not that different from any other team’s bottom of the lineup, though. No, it’s not great, but it doesn’t look as glaring if they’d been getting anything out of their starters.

        • We’re not really disagreeing that much…but I’d say that what Bonifacio and Arencibia have produced has been almost as egregious. The bottom of the order is a spot that should be possible to upgrade without trading Sanchez or Gose, etc.

          • Sure. And they should. But it will hardly do anything, because the problem has been starting pitching.

            • Well, every game it seems that it’s SOMEONE’S fault – either we get half-decent pitching and no batting…or the guys are hitting 4 homers and giving up 8 runs.
              AA must be pulling his hair out, trying to figure out what’s to fix first.

              • Nah, I’d think he knows it’s the starting pitching mostly.

                • No, it’s more than the starting pitching.

                  • It is more than that. but even if they had average starting pitching instead of the worst (or near worst) in all of MLB, they would most probably be above .500 and challenging for a WC.
                    Their offence is 2nd in HRs- 133, 8th in Runs -433, 8th in SBs – 66 , 7th in SLG .418, and 11th in BB %.
                    The next categories show them to be just under the 15 top teams; BA.251 – 16th, OBP .315 – 16th, and K% 18.8 – 20th.
                    The offence has not been great, but the problem is most definitely the starting pitching.

  33. Nice DP there.

  34. Joe Maddon is confusing sometimes.

    • Sometime he gets little too wacky and eccentric. I think its a mistake to bring in a RHP to face a guy with such clear splits and who hits so well vs. RHP in this situation.

      I think the idea of “Every batter is automaticaly better vs. any pitcher of the opposing hand” is outdated, butbwith Lind it fits.

  35. Come on, guys. Keep grinding out these ABs. Make these mofos earn it.

  36. “Bama Blast please.

  37. That was actually a pretty impressive display of what even a major leaguer can do. To throw 7 baseballs all within a grouoing no more then a few inches across is pretty impressive.

  38. Rasmus that was just the worst.

  39. This is like the sequence at Fenway last month.

  40. Fucking Cletus….The guy is a walk machine and you start hacking. I swear, does everyone go brain-dead up there.
    I can guarantee you…they’ll rot on the base paths.

  41. What is wrong with these guys? Baseball is hard sure but these guys are pros. How do you not score a run here even

    • The pitchers are trying to get them out.

      • The pitchers are trying to get them out but good hitters should be able to counteract that. You know, like hitters on good teams are supposed to do. Unfortunately, the jays bottom of the lineup does not have those.

  42. yep……

  43. Of course.

  44. How disappointingly anticlimactic and deflating.

  45. That’s our team! Amazing ineptitude by the hitters there.

    Well at least every Tampa win hurts the Red Sox. Silver linings.

  46. it’s become laughable at this point how bad strike3bia is holy fuck

  47. How pathetic a hitter are you when they throw you a full count breaking ball, up by 2 and with the bases loaded?

    Knowing that even if it’s out of the zone (which it probably will be) you’re going to chase it.

  48. Three fucking walks in a row….and then Rasmus decides to swing – at bullshit, to boot.
    I’m desperately close to pulling this boat into shore.

    • Do you honestly not understand how tough baseball is?

      • Yes, I understand. I played a bit myself. I know how tough it is.
        But I also figured out a while ago when the guy has walked THREE IN A GODDAMNED ROW, that maybe you should lay off until he’s shown he can throw a strike.

    • Please use the complimentary plank at your disposal.

  49. This season is a joke we can’t pitch and we can’t hit. We need a gm that can properly evaluate talent. We have three good hitters on this team the rest are garbage.

  50. Jp should be non tendered

  51. Funny how Tabby goes on and on about what a great catch Molina made…..and not a single admonition to Rasmus for deciding to hack away at the first pitch – which I can pretty much guarantee you that EVERY SINGLE VIEW was screaming “WTF ARE YOU SWINGING FOR?” to the TV.

  52. Throw enough breaking balls + JP getting excited thinking everyone is cheering for him and only him = predictable strike out. Zaun’s fault, though, right?

  53. Oh I’m sure some of use understand how tough baseball is. It just seems to be a lot tougher on the Blue Jays sometimes.

  54. Rather lose by 10 than see Fernando “Look how cool I wear my Hat” Rodney in the 9th.

  55. after this game is over, im going to turn on the TFC game… life seems so sad

  56. A cock-eye’d baseball cap!!! We have a chance.

  57. Lawrie should try to steal. Just for the lulz.

  58. It shouldn’t feel this good to see a team fuck up.

  59. Maybe if his hat shaded his eyes better he would’ve had it.

  60. Cock-eyed cap = cockeyed baseball.


  61. lolll jk!

  62. Fuck I hate him

  63. Why does Pat keep on praising Rodneys “great play” to start the inning? He didn’t show “patience” to make the play…..he had no fucking choice, the ball was in the air. When it came down he caught it and threw it.

    There is literally no other way that play could have went down.

  64. I really hope the Jays are exploring trades for Lind, Oliver and Janssen.

    • I’d rather keep Janssen unless some other team makes a decent offer. No reason to blow up the only excellent part of our team just for the sake of blowing it up.

      • I definitely don’t want them to just dump Janssen. But I’d prefer they cash in on his value before he becomes a 33 year reliever free agent with a history of shoulder problems. That’s not a player I’d want the Jays to re-sign.

    • Any exploration of moving Adam Lind would be greatly appreciated…

  65. Sigh.
    At least they made it interesting.
    Which is like getting a trophy for participating.

    • A game that remains as interesting as this one did during the last two innings is infinitely better than you claim.
      Still frustrating, mind.

      • I know…but an “interesting” loss is just another loss.
        Lately, it’s like watching Charlie Brown trying to kick a football. You just KNOW that fuckin’ Lucy is gonna yank that ball away at some point.

    • Hey, there’s no losers here. The main thing is to have FUN!!!

  66. The way the rest of the guys are hitting, I think that intentionally walking Bautista and EE may become a legit strategy moving forward. This truly is painful to watch…

  67. Why can’t the Jays just get their asses kicked like 18-2 or something? I’m kind of getting annoyed with these “interesting” losses….

  68. I see another year of woulda, shoulda, coulda BS.

    Fire Beeston, AA, Gibbons, the coaching staff (except Hentgen).

    Listening to Gibbons, is listening to a loser.

    And that celebration crap that Bautista and Reyes pull is pathetic.

    Celebrate when the team wins assholes.

    • Biting analysis here. Not at all knee-jerk horseshit from a whiner who can’t handle his team not being as good as he wants.

      • That’s right AS, attack me who has no part of the decision making process instead of the real culprits.

        Seems to be a common theme in Toronto, “media types” who attack the fans who point out the truth about the sad results of Toronto sports teams.

        Pathetic try to pin it on me.

        It’s people like you who accept the mediocrity in Toronto teams.

        More of a statement on your character, not mine.

        At least I do not accept losing, unlike you.

    • I agree on celebration.

    • It’s not AA/Gibby/the coaching staff fault that the starters haven’t gotten it done (or got hurt) or that the hitters can’t seem to cash in easy runs. Seems to me that the accountability rests with the players (who actually do the winning and losing), and not the guys watching.

      As I recall, everyone on this forum was super stoked when AA did the big Marlins deal/Dickey trade/Melky signing. I’m not sure that we should turn on him now (although I sure would like to see Gibby pull the trigger a little quicker getting to the pen, but whatever).

      I’m not sure anyone here is accepting mediocrity or losing, just acknowledging the flaws on the team.

      • Dude, saying that the coaching staff or management is not culpable, takes away the role both have in shaping baseball strategy.

        Who is responsible for choosing the players and putting them together to be effective?

        Management and coaching. They have failed on both fronts this year.

        As for AS accepting mediocrity and losing, I can take shots at my character, but I can also dish it out, especially when it comes to others attacking me for results that I have no control over.

        If others want to talk about the results of the Blues Jays, and their management and players, no problem.

        When others start attacking me personally, I will not take any BS, and I will attack them.

  69. BTW I’ve tried to show patience all season with all the new “casual fans” as the G&M describes them but I’m just about done. When the three chicks in the middle of the row got up for THE FOURTH FUCKING TIME IN THREE INNINGS to go get more beer/ piss/ whatever, I nearly lost my shit.
    I took a look for the teenage usher, but guess what? He wasn’t there. Two innings later I found him. IN THE CAN TALKING ON HIS PHONE.
    Then JPA .
    Good fuckin’ times.

    • You sound like a real barrel of fun.

      • He’s hotter than a pepper sprout.

      • I have no problem with fun.
        What I do have a problem with are people that go to games that have absolutely zero interest in the game and it affects how I enjoy a game.
        Selfish I know.- but seriously they were up and down constantly, pissing off the entire row.
        Seriously, just save yourself the ticket price and hit a patio.

  70. Right on Buerhle! I’m sure he’ll get lambasted for saying they’re overrated.

    But I am finally realizing my expectations were too high and that’s why I’ve been so damn frustrated and miserable this season.

    At this point, I’ll be extremely happy with 81-81 this season.

  71. No it’s not the managements fault that they lost but they contributed . In the four run inning , Fulds single was a ground ball that a major league average second baseman gets to relatively routinely instead of Lawrie over playing it and literally diving past it.

    Then came the terrible turn at second which directly lead to another run.

    There is a decent chance with Lawrie at third and izturis at second the rays score no runs that inning.

    Lawrie was moved off second for a reason and professional baseball evaluators with a lot more sample size than the jays had were the ones who determined this.

    So if they are having him learn on the job is what they are doing then they have mailed in the season a little earlier than I think is wise .

  72. Man this season. So depressing really, a real buzzkill for the city.

  73. the only question that matters is: can these guys win in 2014 or the team fatally flawed? I Really don’t know at this point.

  74. the jays lost this game when they FAILED to scored in the 8th inning..Rasmus’s at bat was disappointing considering he fouled out a VERY HITTABLE curveball down the middle..the moment Maicer striked out,i bet alot of fans don’t expect JPA to come up clutch for us and sure enough,he striked out chasing a ball out of the strike zone

  75. man why the SMURF does optimus prime need a makeover? oh yeah! HE DOESN’T!!!!!!!!!!

  76. Supplying us with factual information is so very important. I really need to have this information available and am very happy that I now have a source to go to.

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