I don’t want to make more of this than needs to be. There are all kinds of scouts at all kinds of ballgames, all the time doing all kinds of things. That fact that a couple of NL scouts have been spotted by reader/Twitterer @MurphyBruno at today’s Jays game doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot, if you ask me. The fact that a man he suggests is a Cincinnati Reds scout is looking exclusively at Mark Buehrle, in particular, doesn’t really make a lot of sense– at least with respect to the upcoming trade deadline, as the Reds are stacked with solid starters.

So… what’s going on? I don’t know. Could he simply be looking at Buehrle with a view to the winter, when Bronson Arroyo hits free agency? Do the Reds think Buehrle could get traded to a rival team and are doing a little bit of advanced scouting on him? Are they just building data? Is the scout actually looking at the Rays’ hitters? Is the reported Nationals scout looking more at Jeremy Hellickson against the Jays’ left-handed hitters than he is Adam Lind and Colby Rasmus? There are a number of possibilities, most of which don’t scream out that the players reportedly being viewed most closely by the scouts are on the block, or definitely going to be moved, or being discussed, or… anything.

Still though, with skepticism in full force, I’m as interested in this kind of stuff as anybody. Here’s what happened:

Do we make anything of it? I don’t think we should. But if we really feel the need for wild speculation, I suppose I could point out that it’s not like the Reds haven’t before taken a midwest-yearning player off the Jays hands. And Cincinnati is about a five hour drive from St. Louis, which is where Buehrle makes his home. Plus, as good as he’s been this year– and he’s been decent– Buehrle would look a lot better in the National League, and with his contract, or most of it, off the Jays’ books.

I’m not saying, I’m just saying. But let’s just not bother assuming anything is actually going to happen here, or getting too worked out about who could come back in possible scenarios that, in all likelihood, aren’t going to come close to fruition.

The Nationals stuff with Lind and Rasmus doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, either, as the Nats already have themselves Adam LaRoche and Denard Span. Lind and Rasmus, too, could be available in the winter, so that could be what this is about. Or it could be something else entirely. I certainly wouldn’t want to say, or to encourage anyone to believe anything is happening, or going to happen, with these players. Anthopoulos has got a lot of dogs in the fire, Stanimal. So it’s probably nothing. Interesting nonetheless, though.


Image via ‘Murica, the latest This Week In Jays Merch post from @ScottJohnson48.

Comments (116)

  1. Playing this game, Rosenthal tweeted this a half hour or so ago:

    “Teams scouting #WhiteSox-#Braves today: TOR, BOS, SEA, NYY, BAL, AZ. Not all looking at Peavy. NYY on normal coverage. AZ not pursuing him.”

    • The Braves, of course, have been said to be looking everywhere for lefty relief pitching, so maybe there’s some connection there as well, in addition to Peavy.

    • Interesting that the Reds aren’t on that list scouting Peavy. Why scout Buerhle but not Peavy? Could just be that the Reds know that Buerhle can probably be had for a song. That does smell more like a winter salary dump than a trade deadline deal, especially with no apparent immediate need for the Reds.

      • Yeah, I don’t really see the Jays and Reds matching up at all on a big trade, so I’d agree if they did want Buehrle, it’d probably be mostly a salary-dump type of deal.

      • Read on MLB trade rumors in a Red’s article that they have holes at 3rd and left but that there are pay role flexibility issues. A Buehrle trade if it were the Reds and if what MLB trade rumors reports is true would likely see the Jays eating some of his contract which would negate the point of trading him anyways (from a pure salary dump perspective)

        That doesnt rule out the possibility of picking up someone from them that may help the team that would make it worth while to eat some the contract.

        • As we’ve learned from Edwin, sometimes the pieces you think are throw-ins or salary equalizers end up working out better than in your wildest dreams (after you give them away to the A’s then steal them back, of course).

  2. It’s July, there are many scouts at every game. I don’t think this means anything.

    • I also wonder if a scout doing their regular coverage on the Jays would have particular interest in focusing on Rasmus and Lind, since they’re the two offensive players that have shown real improvement this year. The only other offensive players to stand out have been guys you’d expect – Bautista, Reyes, Encarnacion – so get an updating scouting report may not be as important.

      • Agreed 100 percent. During the few occasions in my life where I’ve slurged (or had an employee friend sneak me in) I’ve almost always seen a scout. I just didn’t happen to have a smartphone with Twitter on me. So might be making something out of nothing here. The again, if it turns out that something happens, I bet he’ll get tonnes of Twitter followers. Good for him, seems like a nice guy!

  3. I could live with Buehrle (and his contract) gone. Nothing against this guy, but that’s 37M dollars over the next two years for maybe – what, 12 wins??
    I like Rasmus…but shipping him out for a decent return, I could live with. OK, there’s no replacement on the club or in the minors that can hit anything resembling their weight – but it’s a scenario.
    Lind…he’s a throw-in.

    • Who cares? You don’t pay the money and the contract isn’t hindering anything else the team may do. At all. Do you forget Rogers is a company that did $12.8B in revenue last year?Pulling in a cool profit of $4.6B. It’s not your money, it’s theirs. Fucking relax. Cool.

      Source – http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal?_nfpb=true&_windowLabel=investor_1_1&investor_1_1_actionOverride=%2Fportlets%2Fconsumer%2Finvestor%2FshowFinancialReportAction&_pageLabel=IR_LANDING

      • “Fucking relax”?? wtf?
        What – something in my subtext led you to believe I was stressed or something? DId I use an exclamation point someplace? Maybe capitalized something? Not sure how you get a “fucking relax” out of that, dude. I was making an observation.
        I merely opined that 37M dollars dedicated to one guy, who might get you a dozen or so wins in the next 2 seasons, might be better serviced elsewhere.
        That’s hardly a comment that needs to be followed up by a “fucking relax”.

      • We get it – you have no idea how sports finances differ from corporate finances.

    • I actually like having Buerhle on the team – right now. It’s Buerhle and his salary in 2015 that are a problem. If this team were a 2013 contender, it would be a problem worth dealing with. As it stands, he’s a redundant piece that eventually keeps this team from improving. He’s just good enough to keep them from examining whether they have a higher ceiling player on the roster / in the org. He’s also just mediocre enough to keep them from winning more games in the AL East.

  4. TOTALLY cool pabst blue ribbon

  5. It’s amazing to look at the Reds starters’ stats this year:

    Latos: 19 starts, 8-3, 120 IP, 117 hits, 127 Ks, 3.35 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, .252 OBA
    Bailey: 19 starts, 5-8, 122.2 IP, 112 hits, 121 Ks, 3.82 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, .243 OBA
    Leake: 19 starts, 9-4, 122.2 IP, 111 hits, 76 Ks, 2.79 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .245 OBA
    Arroyo, 19 starts, 8-7, 123.2 IP, 117 hits, 69s, 3.42 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .248 OBA
    Tony Cingrani doing well as #5

    Wish the Jays could even have one starter with these stats…

    Wouldn’t read too much into a scout being at a Jays game. It happens from time to time being it is the game of baseball. And tell me how they need Buehrle at the deadline? I could see him going to the Cardinals who I think need veteran SP depth, not the Reds

  6. Non tender jp

  7. Who is the sacrificial lamb for this mess, not trolling, mottola needs to go I guess?

    • The bats haven’t been overly horrible. JBau and Edwin are having good seasons. Lind and Rasmus have been better than previous years. It’s the starting pitching that has been fucked, so why would the hitting coach be the one to take the fall?

    • The mess is mostly the rotation, which I would think would be Walker or Hentgen. The offence is nowhere near the worst in the league. In fact they are still in 2ND place in HRs.

  8. trading Buerhle makes a lot of sense, with drabek and hutch due back soon, you’d have to think the 18.5M AAV remaning on Buerhle’s deal could be much better spent on any of these positions: LF, C, 2B, 3B, DH.

    I think playing EE at 3B and Lawrie at 2B is now an option for the Jays.. I dont like Lawrie at 2B yet, but maybe he will improve throughout the remainder of this year

  9. Arencibia apparently went on an out-of-town radio station to complain about Dirk and Zaun again.


    And it doesn’t surprise me at all that there’s talk…though presumably if Buehrle moves there would have to be another SP in the deal, right?

    • Wow, arencibia is a fucking pussy. Just shows how mentally fragile he is. He does realize his performance has been awful, yes? Why is he letting himself get distracted by this? He is human but at the same time good ball players block this out. He is a pro ball player. Having said that, he isnt a good ball player so im not surprised.

    • I talked to our president about the issue [and asked], “How do you build a fan base when everything that fans are hearing is negative? You don’t build a fan base just by having somebody who works for you throw out negative stuff all day long.”

      This was the money shot right here.

      No JP, you build a fanbase by having good players – not shitbags like yourself.

      • You build a fan base by winning.
        You win by having as few shitty players as possible.
        Fuck off JP.

        • The corporate world doesnt look lightly on weasels that run to the boss every time they stub their toe. This is NOT a good situation.
          I will say that that bit about those idiots tweeting about JPA’s mum* (* or to her, there werent a lot of details given in the story) is offbase but that’s a separate issue that may have him a little bit more upset than usual.

      • Wow, interesting story. I like the play by play twitter feed from the guy at the stadium. Outstanding work.

        I have to agree with the smasher above. Cincy DOES make sense, for all those reasons. I am having trouble getting my head wrapped around the Jays eating some salary AND giving up a guy like Cecil, just to get Jack fucking Hannahan. Where the fuck is Billy Hamilton? Add some more pieces, make it worthwhile.

        But I guess maybe we already have a speedster who cant get on base in AAA.

        Re: Santos – They will not option Loup to make room for him. A piece or two will be traded to make room for him.

        AA had better be planning for 2014, because with 2 straight losses out of the break, it just confirms what we all saw in the first half. Shut it down, stop trying to fool yourselves into thinking this is the year.

        We got a great core, lets continue to build around it.

        But sell Buerhle if you can, get some value out of your outstanding bullpen. I could handle Oliver leaving, along with Janssen. I dont see Cecil or Delabar leaving, with their stuff, their years of team control, it just doesnt make sense from AA’s standpoint of how he rolls.

      • If JPA were in New York, Boston, or Philadelphia he would need to be in the witness protection program for his performance on the field.

        Toronto fans are kittens compared to those cities.

  10. Maybe Rendon to the Jays to play 3B?

    • Lool

    • For Oliver.

      • Well, if Lind and Rasmus were involved, I’d assume LaRoche and Span’s contracts would be coming back to start. Maybe JPA in there with prospects, relievers, etc. I could see AA doing a large trade like that.

        Isn’t Rendon only playing 2B because Zimmerman is already at 3B?

        • Jays dont need span and nationals dont have a need for lind with laroche. Lind and laroche are basically the same player. laroche might even be better and more consistent.

  11. Wow if we could unload Buehrle that would be a huge deal for the team’s development. Not that he hasn’t been good, it’s just that we can’t expect the team to spend infinitely and that 18.5M would look pretty sweet at 3B or LF (Ellsbury?).

    As for the Rasmus thing, unless we’re getting a top top prospect I can’t see any possible point. Rasmus is young (ish) cheap (ish) and pretty fucking good. Plus, we don’t have anyone else unless you think Gose can hit (he can’t) or Sierra can field (he can’t).

    Lind, though? I think he’d be pretty sweet on an NL team, though I don’t see the WAS fit.

    Either way, rosterbation is the high point of my 2013. That about says it all.

    • PASS on Ellsbury. He’s Jacoby Ellsbury 2.0, hurt all the time and that wont better on the other side of 30 either. He will want huge money and term and if the Jays were to sign him to such money and term, in a few years he would be boooed like Wells was in his later days as a Jay. No thanks.

  12. Say what you will about Buerhle, but he is the only pitcher we have that can make his start every 5 days (I guess RA as well now that I think of it.). It’s not just a question of his contract, his performance, or what we’d get for him. If we’re going to hang on to a JJ, a Morrow, a McGowan, etc, we need a Buerhle that can actually pitch in his scheduled starts and give you a few innings of passable baseball. Our bullpen will not be lights out forever.

  13. This team is a mess, AA has himself in a mess of a situation. Theyre too far back to warrant trades for rentals and they cant firesale top players for prospects not even a year after making moves for franchise type players.

    Buerhle, sure move him, that I wouldnt care about at all in the grand scheme of things, I could also be behind losing Janssen as well if the price was right because the pen is pretty deep. But Rasmus, nope, no sir, he’s off the table 100% because while a lot of people like to imagine Anthony Gose as this super prospect, he’s really just another guy that can run fast with no real offensive talent. Sorry to let the air out of that baloon people but let’s be real. Buerhle with his salary would be a dump IF the jays intended on bringing someone in this off season but if not, really why move him when the return wont be much.

    This season is yet another in a long list of write offs for me. Going in I had huge hopes for things but what’s happened? Injuries, under performing starters, Lawrie waggling his bat like an asshole, a coaching staff that seems unable to fix the problems and then E5 and Joey bats hitting like bosses. Sound familiar?

    • It’s interesting how Gose was projected to be this five tool player that AA really wanted all along and became the end piece in the Halladay transaction. He still has more upside than Wallace but it’s kind of disappointing that after all this time, the Jays still have no Major League ready talent from that trade.

      • If Dickey turns it around – and its a big if – I’ll be satisfied with trade. If not, FML.

        Drabek is hugely overrated and probably has daddy issue.

        Agreed Gose has more upside than wallace, but sadly is a low bar

      • You cant fault AA for that at all. Drabek looked like an absolute cant miss prospect, D’Arnaud looked the same and Gose was still really damn young but did show a lot of promise. In my opinion Gose was never going to be capable of being a 5 tool player but he did and still does have the potential to be a really solid player. All he needs is the ability to hit .300 or close to it at the big league level and his journey is complete. He has the fielding, he certainly has the base running but the bat still hasnt come around. I remember I called him Willy Tavares 2.0 and got flamed for it but in reality, right now, that’s where things are at for him. I know many Toronto fans hold him high up in their minds but I dont think those people are paying attention to his progress. He’s just become this name that they heard about and now instantly think that he can be thrown at any team to pry their star players loose at the deadline or in the off season. When in reality, that’s not at all true. But yes, he still has more skill and value than Wallace who last I heard was demoted to AAA which in the Astros system means something bad.

  14. In my opinion, Oliver and Janssen are the only guys going anywhere. I would have added Johnson but no one is going to bring in a rental that loses all the time regardless of how good his stuff CAN be.

    In reality I really think all the pitching problems boil down to having a catcher that cant command the respect and trust of a pitching staff. Getting guys to come in and throw smoke for an inning is one thing but being able to command the respect of seasoned veteran starters is another thing. I am normally not one to say this but now it’s time… out with JPA, the sooner the better. Sure he may turn around and kick ass with another team but I really think that if the jays are going to be a solid contender, they need a catcher that can command a staff and call a game properly. Next season,,, Brian McCann should be the main target of the blue jays, no question in the world, McCann is the first name on the list, the second name should be Carlos Ruiz or others. I dont care as much about the offense because the rest of the Jays line up is easily good enough to where they SHOULD be able to make up for a catcher’s lack of offense. As long as the guy can hit .250 and get on base, I’d be happy. Obviously McCann is above that line.

    But come the off season or even trade deadline it’s JPA out, new blood in because he has proven nothing but the ability to hit a mistake pitch or dead center fastball over the fence once every blue moon. I also think blue jay fans put FAR FAR too much emphasis on the catcher’s offensive numbers. Find me a catcher that can get the best out of the pitching staff and Ill show you at least one guy that couldnt give a fuck about what he’s doing at the plate.

    • If we are going to dream with eyes open then B. McCann is the catcher for 2014 and on,but let’s not forget that Yankees need a catcher.So I would be really happy with C. Ruiz.Honestly any good defensive catcher with a good OBP just not this out machine called” the team leader” J.P.A

  15. for the amount of high round draft picks AA has had over the last few years, he has done pretty fuckin shitty!! im still fuckin sick to my stomach every time i hear the name deck mcguire, i was screaming SALE when the jays were up to pick, i wanted guerreri instead of beede, and they should have taken shipley over bickford!! they did grab a couple of good ones over that time but considering how many early choices they had, they did shitty pickin!!!

    • Sanchez? Syndrrgaard? DJ Davis? A bunch of other high upside, albeit raw prospects? I love how you focus only on the negatives. It’s the mlb draft – it’s kind of hard. And regarding Beede, he took a big risk not signing with the jays, and got really lucky.

    • That’s how drafts work, friend. How many other teams passed on Sale and Trout and all kinds of guys? It’s not that simple, and most people thought Sale projected as a reliever whose arm would blow up due to his fucked up motion anyway. Looking at drafts in the way that you do is pretty fucking ridiculous, too. Almost as bad as trying to judge the draft record of a GM who only just had his fourth. How many prospects for ANY team from the 2010 through 2013 drafts have even got a taste of the majors yet? It’s laughably early to judge.

    • All AA did in 2010 after drafting Deck McGuire was go on and draft Syndergaard, Sanchez, Wojciechowski, Nicolino, Sean Nolin and some kid named Kris Bryant (who they didn’t sign). You know baseball drafts are more than one round right? Keep screaming every time you hear Deck’s name bud.

  16. What the hell happened to all the surplus value on the team prior to 2012?

    This is the 2nd year in a row where the top 7 starters on the depth chart have taken a step back.

    2012 opened with something like Romero, Morrow, Alvarez, Cecil, Drabek, McGowan & Hutchison. All 7 guys took a step back as starters. Guys like Laffey received too many starts.

    2013 opened with Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Johnson, Happ, Romero & Jenkins. All 7 guys have taken a step back. Guys like Laffey have received too many starts.

    As far as position players go, the only guys who have good value are Bautista, EE and probably Rasmus.

    Lawrie and JPA have taken steps back. Cabrera has negative value.

    Reyes is very good but expensive.

    Lind still can’t hit lefties but his work against righties has likely given him a bit of positive value.

    On the whole, I still think AA has done a pretty good job and he deserves 3 chances at contention with a good payroll based on his exceptional 3 years of rebuilding the organization.

    Maybe it’s just a run of shit luck.

    But how much more can be expected from a fairly old team with a fairly high payroll?

    Unless Rogers is willing to go well past the $130 or $140 million projected budget for 2014, AA needs to get back into value whore mode ASAP.

    • I’d be very surprised if Rogers bumps the payroll after this year. I still think it took a lot of convincing from Beeston and AA to jack the payroll for the trades/acquisitions this last offseason, and given the results, increase in attendance aside, I don’t think they will open the pocket book again.

      • Attendance and TV numbers are up.

        Not to mention that there are a lot of commitments already in place for next year:


        $110 million not counting Rasmus, Lind, JPA, Janssen, Cecil & Rogers who all may very well be back.

        Along with, at minimum, replacing backups like Davis, Derosa, Bonifacio and the 0-3 players the payroll is on pace to be pretty bloody close to $140 million sans Josh Johnson.

        And what is the true talent level of this team without Johnson? Maybe 85 wins considering the strength of the division?

      • But you can’t just toss the attendance aside. Or the the TV ratings. I can’t ignore the amount of fake baseball fans travelling to games from where I live.

        I really think they plan on spending with all the second tier spenders. Not the Yanks or Dodgers but everyone else.

  17. Just throwing this out there, but wouldn’t a scout also be recording a catcher’s work when the pitcher pitches. Hanigan in Cincy is a pretty light hitting catcher and Arencibia would be a somewhat improvement over that. Hanigan is .193/.293/.276 with an OPS of .569. Arencibia on the other hand .221/.256/.426 with an OPS of .682. The other Reds catcher has an OPS of .673. Since Cincy has limited budget options, maybe Arencibia is a possibility for them.

  18. El Oso Blanco time! Bring on the Gattitude!

    • Yes, the Braves would trade their rookie cost controlled catcher/serial murderer of the future for anything we have at all. I find that hard to believe.

  19. The Reds wanting Buehrle seems ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense at all, frankly. Take a look how good their rotation has been this season. Buehrle in a good year would be the 4th best starter on that staff. They’d probably be more interested in bullpen help or a guy like Melky Cabrera.

  20. Stoeten, where are you?
    Please rein in this whack jobs,

  21. um,
    that is …
    Please rein in these whack jobs

  22. I think it’s time to trade jpa

    • Yes because it’s that simple.

      Because you know, every team wants a catcher that strikes out 4 times a game, can’t field for shit, has declining skills, has an ego and has recently become a pain in the ass outside of the clubhouse with the media.

      Yah,,,, that’ll be a huge return… :S

      • Ruben amaro jr would want run producer jp

      • He makes fuck all and hits 20+ hrs per year – he has some value.

        We just need a catcher who can get on base a bit better than jpa, while running the pitching staff properly. I wish we still had Jose Molina or Jeff Mathis, though Mathis had a brutal obp as well.

        • I agree with you but I think the line up the Jays have SHOULD be able to produce enough offense to make up for a solid defensive and leading catcher that doesnt knock the cover off the ball. I just want a guy that hits .250 with maybe 6-7 homers and 40-50 ribs with an on base around 280 while managing to pull the right stuff out of the starters.

          And yah sure, JPA would be easy to trade but the Jays wouldnt get fuck all for him. Id say wait until he’s on one of his streaky hot streaks then move him for max value rather than getting nothing for him right now.

          • Gross. A .280 OBP is so horrendously unacceptable.

            • Says the guy whose team’s catcher currently rocks a .259 and acts like its our problem.

              I’d take .280 with stellar defense and game calling but thats really more a statement about how bad things have gotten than a glowing review of sub- .300 OBP catchers :-\

  23. @jordangeville: Breaking: Melky Cabrera left the #Bisons game. As per Marty Brown, it was to come to Toronto. He’s back. #BlueJays

  24. Fire AA people please fuck off

  25. Hat tip to Bruno, very assertive.

    I talked with a couple of MLB scouts in Florida last year. They scout everyone, all the time.

    Interesting though these two were zoned in on Lind, Buerhle, and Rasmus.

    Due diligence I guess.

  26. For what it’s worth, trivial, I know, Cincinnati is about 8 hours from St. Louis (trust me, I’ve driven it) It’s about as long for me to drive to St. Louis from my home as it is for me to drive to Toronto.

    I think I have JPA’s strategy figured out. Hit one home run a week, knock in two or three runs and at the end of the year, you’ll have about 26 home runs and about 65 or 70 RBI’s and everyone thinks you’re a great offensive player

    If Melky really is ready and plays tomorrow, it would be the first time all year our pre-season projected lineup has palyed together. It only took 97 games..

    • Ya I noticed that when I was writing my mid-season report card thing on position players. That’s pretty fucked. Sure it’s Thole today, but this is the first time they could have fielded their full starting lineup if they wanted to.

  27. I was at this game and saw what happened. I saw one the notes one of the scouts was making (Reds maybe?). It said:

    Tampa: GOOD! (This was in bold and underlined). This team is Fu@$ing Good. This is the kind of team fans dream about getting to watch. I feel blessed today to have even seen this team play for one second.

    Toronto: Nothing to see here. This team Fu$#ing Sucks.

  28. The only logical conclusion is Buerle/Lind for Votto/Cingriani…#ninja

  29. Pointless post

  30. Why Beuhrle to Cincy may make sense:

    Cincy does have a plethora of good starters but they don’t have any lefties and I kinda feel like Cueto’s injury is more serious then the Reds have been letting on.

    Cingrani who IS a lefty and currently their number 5 starter while Cueto rehabs has pitched very well overall, but the rookies numbers are regressing. He has given up 15 walks in his last 20 innings and is currently at 95 innings between MLB and AAA this year. The most he has pitched so far in a season of pro-ball is 146 innings. I would guess they have an innings cap for their young star so a trade for Beurhle in my mind makes sense. They could save up some innings so Cingrani could be available in the playoffs. They could also use him in the bullpen which is another place Cincy is short on lefties. Outside of their closer their only other lefty is Manny Parra, a guy with a career ERA over 5 and a WHIP over 1.6 – Gross.

    To get to the World Series Cincy would have to presumably get through Atlanta. (who in my opinion is the best team in the NL, apologies to Cardinal fans) The Braves boast a powerful middle of the order that includes 3 LH batters (Freeman, McCann and Heyward)
    that all struggle against Lefties. The discrepancies are actually quite large.

    Stats vs RHP and then LHP:

    Freeman – .290/.365/.481 .253/.322/.403
    McCann – .288/.366/.500 .260/.320/.428
    Heyward – .272/.370/.473 .223/.302/.363

    Between Cueto’s injuries this year, a young rookie who seems to be losing some control and could be facing an innings cap, and the lack of Cincy’s lefty pitching I think Beuhrle does make some sense for the Reds.

    As for compensation it would only be wild speculation by anyone. If we ate a ton of salary and maybe included a Cecil, I could see a good prospect like Robert Stephenson making sense. If it’s more salary dump then I could see some piece of shit like Jack Hannahan or a “B” level prospect.

    Just my armchairing for the night, feel free to punch holes/agree to some extent/or tell me I’m full of shit. I enjoy the speculation.

    • Nice analysis Smasher.

        • I agree, smasher , great job!
          Man, statistics! I remember back when I was in A ball many years ago, no one ever discussed WHIP with me-well maybe some weirdo into S&M but not the manager as the stat didn’t exist-it was more of a feel thing. I guess if they did have it, I would have been even worse as I did tend to walk people ( hit a few too)
          IMO, I think Walker gets fired. Every starter is performing poorly and rightly or wrongly somebody will walk the plank over this clusterfuck to show the fans that “something” is being done.
          I think that AA and Lacava will seriously think about moving afew of the bullpen arms if we can land a good, not decent, position player.
          Cecil is like a penny stock ( no value last year) that has soared to $4. Sell and take your profit. Ditto for Lind and Ditto for Delabar. Most penny stocks regress and I think that is true for some ballplayers who have a great year once in awhile. They won’t get rid of all 3 but I think at least 2 will go. Oliver will be sold to someone for cash within the week i imagine. My prediction 2 weeks ago was that Janssen will be traded to either Detroit or St louis and I will stick to that with the proviso that oliver could go with him and maybe Lind too if it is to get say a Kolten Wong ( pronounced as it sounds, not like that arsehow WANG).
          Bottom lineis , that despite the public protestations I think AA and LAcava know they are done and the planning for 2014 has begun. It’s like building a car, we have agreat engine in EE, JB, JR but a lot of the components don’t seem to work with main part too good

        • Buehrle’s the 1st pitcher to throw multiple no hitters since Randy Johnson. (one was a perfect game). And Dickey’s less than a year down the road after his Cy Young . Morrow was touted to compete for the Ace spot in the rotation and Romero was supposed to fix what was wrong last season and rebound. Maybe they arent that good but 99% of us thought they were last November. It’s an interesting angle from Buehrle but i’m wondering if he’s saying it to deflect some of the attention.
          As for trades, if they move him (and whoever it is would absolutely be asking for salary support from the Jays) the shortage of lefties in Cincy is an excellent point. I would NOT give up Cecil though. Too bad Luis Perez isnt back yet.

    • A couple things. If the jays were to eat a ton of buehrles salary( like more than half) AND throw in cecil id want more than stephenson and fucking hannahan( who could be better than boni but still sucks). Also, cincy is a small market team. I have a hard time seeing them interested with his hefty price tag and other quality lefties available at a far lower cost.

    • Nice analysis Smasher.

      You’ve come a long way from SNK Baseball and Nintendo RBI baseball, which both I generally crushed you in.

      The only time you could beat me was with St Louis because of Coleman, and Ozzie or using the AL Allstar team.

      But I got nothing on your analysis prowess.

      Hey FUKSTIK, would you be alright with telling where you played A ball? Love to know, and what position.

  31. I’m not trying to scapegoat Pete Walker but he better not get too comfortable with what’s happened to the rotation yet the bullpen has been extraordinary under Hentgen.

    • Yeah agreed. I DO think though that with the injuries to Morrow Dickey Santos and Happ it’s not automatic that Walker gets canned. Also he has made changes to Rogers’ delivery that have helped.

      • I think I remember that the changes to Rogers was pretty much all Hentgen

        • Hmmm …think you have a point there. I remember someone fixed his head from turning away during his delivery so he could focus on the catcher’s target longer. Also it was definitely Hentgen who showed him the sinker grip and got him to throw that pitch.
          Having said all that though I still don’t think Walker will be booted..at least right away.

  32. “How do you build a fan base when everything that fans are hearing is negative?”

    Hey, JPA…..got a clue for ya, here. The Jays HAVE a fan base already. There was a fan base there long before you were around, and there will be one long after you’re gone…which, frankly, can’t be soon enough.
    To get back to your question – um, by not losing as many games, maybe?
    By showing improvement as a player and as a team. For someone with your statistics, I’d really start looking in the mirror – instead of blaming Zaun and Hayhurst, who are only commenting on the results that YOU give them.

  33. Roster moves, scuttlebutt
    Melky back Wagner down to AAA
    Santos back probably soon so it’s either loup/Perez down for him.
    Happ starts in buffalo Tuesday, so he’s back within 2 weeks probably, and Redmond obviously gone

    • maybe by the time Santos is ready, Oliver has been sold off. We don’t need the ‘ol cunt anymore-not doing that great anyway. Remember all the scrotum licking in the winter by many that said we couldn’t live w/o Oliver? Yeah, we can

      • Ya when l Perez and the starters are Healthy a trade has to be made

        • L Perez and Loup are very much alike and I can see one of them being dealt.
          Or, I wonder if they’d entertain turning Loup into a lefty starter with the stuff he’s got?

  34. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/sports/baseball/going-from-classroom-to-all-star-game.html?ref=sports&_r=0

    This NYT article has some nice Jays-related content (Delabar stuff we mostly know, but still…).

    Also, a choice quote from Votto that I really, really wish JPA would chew on for awhile:

    “My goal is to be the best player I can be,” he said. “I’ve done it before, where I’ve just kind of hacked away, and I didn’t play quite as well. I just try to do my best to not give at-bats away, get on base for my teammates, whatever makes me the best player I can be for the team.

    “Some years, I’ve been a bit more aggressive. Now that I’m a little older, I’ve learned the strike zone a little better and learned that certain pitches should not be put in play, or else you’re giving away an at-bat.”

    “And, frankly, I’m not that good,” Votto said. “Like, I was thinking about this last night; there’s a bunch of guys that are just better at swinging the bat than I am. One of my characteristics, one of the things I can do, is I can be a little bit tougher of an at-bat, and I can see the ball a little bit deeper in the strike zone, foul pitches off on occasion and hopefully lead to a walk or a double or a single.

    “It’s a humbling game, man. If you know yourself, and you know what you can and can’t do, it solves a lot of problems.”

  35. One thing where I think we CAN blame AA / Gibby is in this switch to 2B for Lawrie. It may be the right move in the long run. But for a guy who was already scuffling, who missed all of ST and is coming back from injury to have something else to think about and re-learn seems like giving in to a lost season. To me it is a bigger white-flag move than it is shrewd roster management.

    That said, I know Alex has to take the long view. I just think it will take its toll on pitchers who are expecting the routine plays to be made on 2B, and it may frustrate an easily frustrated ballplayer even more.

    • Agrees

    • Lawrie is back at 3B today

      • @ South

        Where he should be.

        • Now that they’ve committed to the transition, how can they abandon it after a couple of bad games? Give him the rest of the season to figure it out and decide in 2014 whether you’ve got a 2B or a 3B on your hands.

    • I think you’re right. The move of lawrie to second is a white flag move.Although, if AA has those kinds of thoughts then the experiment of Lawrie at second makes sense and isn’t a mistake.
      If Lawrie can show any competence at 2nd then provides roster flexibilty.
      As far as it being a toll on the pitchers,under normal circumstances,yeah I can see it, but the starting rotation hasn’t been great to begin with, so why not try Lawrie at 2nd.

  36. I would think the Reds are looking for a stick or two. Their offense isn’t really that great. They’re basically about 4 hitters (Choo, Phillips, Votto and Bruce) and the rest of the lineup sucks. They got a lot of huge AB’s from Todd Frazier a year ago, but he’s had trouble duplicating last year’s success. Ryan Ludwick had a monster year for them last year as well, but he blew up his shoulder on opening day doing a headfirst slide and the word is he may never be right again. Another thing about last year’s Reds was the fact they never had a starter miss a start in their starting pitching rotation (I knew that wouldn’t happen twice). This year is different as Johnny Cueto has been hurting all year and they cannot rely on him. So in that sense, yeah they might be searching for a starter, but only at the right price.

    • Thing about the Reds is that they would seem not to need another lefty in their lineup, which makes Lind and Rasmus pretty redundant pieces for them. Maybe Rasmus improves their D in CF, but I don’t know how else he is useful for them.

      The Pirates could potentially use Lind but I’m not sure he’s a major upgrade on Garrett Jones. SF Giants could maybe use Colby.

  37. Boo, no dripping verbosity on Delgado?

    • It’s fucking Sunday. And why would you assume not just because not yet? Also: no.

      • Just messing with you.

        But if anyone deserves a touch of sentimentality, it’s this guy. (Or really, just post his line from 2000.)

  38. Caterbo, I agree. I have long said the Jets and Giants should be Jersey as are the Devils and as were the Nets..now Brooklyn.

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