Today In MLBTR: Monday, July 29th

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It’s all happening! The trade deadline is Wednesday at four, Zubes has apparently had a stroke (see below), Rosie DiManno hast tried valiantly to wrest back her title of most infuriatingly unreadable sportswriter in the city from Steve Simmons, and all sorts of fun things are already happening on the trade front. None of them directly involve the Jays just yet, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth having a look at what’s going on out there, so– much as we did back during the Winter Meetings, and as I’ll do each of the next three days– here’s the latest from the astonishingly fantastic and comprehensive MLB Trade Rumors, with some added Jays-related context, just so I don’t feel too much like we’re just ripping them off…

First, some non-MLBTR rumouring, as Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch notes that the Jays were among a number of teams who had scouts on hand to watch the Cardinals’ Triple-A club on Sunday– a game started by prospect Carlos Martinez and participated in by second base prospect Kolten Wong. The latter has been the focus of a number of Jays fans’ fantasies for a while now, though I’d figure it’s the former who’s most intriguing. But what are you going to attempt to do here? Buehrle and a boatload of money? Good luck with that. Besides, an MLBTR piece from yesterday notes Goold saying that Cards GM John Mozeliak doesn’t expect a splashy move. So… I wouldn’t get my hopes up here.

The Rangers inquired on Brian McCann says the headline, but what’s far more intriguing to us is the Ken Rosenthal piece at Fox Sports that it links to, in which Kenny Ken Ken notes that the Rangers “also recently scouted the Blue Jays’ Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion, according to CBSSports.com.” Good luck with that, Texas. Reasonable contracts, best players, faces of the franchise. The Jays started really building around Bautista and Edwin last winter, and there’s no reason to expect they’ll stop. Dealing them would be a step backwards for the franchise, and with the way things turned out, Alex Anthopoulos doesn’t have a season to waste trying to find a way to replace the lost production of either of those guys. Nor does he have, I suspect, the cachet left to admit his project was as big a failure as the worst tendencies of fans would insist. It’s just absolutely not happening. Unless it does. Jose would be the one to leave in the remotest of remote possibilities, I think, just because he’s as valuable and already much deeper in decline.

A special dose of silliness by way of Nick Cafardo, who lists the Jays as one of the teams to have made “numerous calls” to the Twins on Justin Morneau. Uh… Morneau is on the last year of his current deal and is kinda terrible, so that makes all of zero sense. Hey, but Cafardo does speak to scouts and executives who are split on whether Buehrle and Johnson would have any value to a contender, and Cafardo himself figures that at least Buehrle does.

Jeff Passan of Yahoo! says that the Angels are open for business, and that could potentially mean second baseman Howie Kendrick is available. Kendrick is under contract through 2015, and even in a down year last season (.316 wOBA versus a healthy .349 clip this season), he was a three-win player, thanks largely to his defence. Uh… what was that about Mark Buehrle having value?

The Tigers acquired reliever Jose Veras from the Astros, possibly removing from the bullpen market a potential trading partner that Jays fans have been (pipe) dreaming on for a while now. In exchange Houston gets A-ball prospect Danry Vazquez and a player to be named later. Vazquez is young and raw and repeating A-ball, but well regarded in some corners. Plus he fits the Astros timeline better than he would the Jays’, so… yeah. Detroit may still want to bolster their bullpen, of course, but it’s less urgent now.

Tangiental Jays relations here, as ex-Jay Scott Downs has been dealt to the Braves in exchange for Colby Rasmus’s brother Corey. Downs will already be a free agent at the end of the year, which is a bit of a mindfuck, I’d say, having signed a three-year $15-million deal with Anaheim prior to 2011. More importantly, it would appear to remove a club from the market for left-handed relief help. I mean, honestly, the Jays have got to move Darren Oliver, right? What’s the point of not doing it, at this point?

Speaking of the relief market, a “complicated” deal that would have sent White Sox reliever Jesse Crain to either Tampa or an unnamed third team looked like it was on, but now appears off– or back into the negotiating stage, with Crain deals being explored in a number of places. Not sure how it would work, but Alex Anthopoulos seems to enjoy being both a third team in on deals, and unnamed, so… maybe some kind of facilitating going on here, but that’s a pretty big leap.

A piece on clubs on the west coast notes that Jim Bowden really sees the Dodgers as the only fit if the Rangers are taking advantage of their bullpen depth and the seller’s market (as the Jays should) and shopping Joe Nathan– he figures Texas wouldn’t want to see Nathan bite them in a playoff series against Boston or Detroit. Elsewhere in that post it’s noted that the Diamondbacks are looking for a second bullpen lefty. Hellooooo Darren Oliver, amiright?

The Jays almost acquired Jake Peavy last winter, and he looks to finally be on the move again– though likely not here, even though he’s got another year at $14.5-million left on his deal in 2014. “The Sox asked the Athletics for top young players Sonny Gray and Addison Russell, while also asking the A’s to pay almost $20MM in salary, Gammons writes. That’s surely far more than the A’s would be willing to pay,” says one note. Combine that with having to find a new home for some of the plugs already in the rotation and it just doesn’t make sense, does it?

A more recent piece on Peavy, however, suggests that rival executives think the price will come down. Meh. It’s kinda like the Gio Gonzalez or Mat Latos things, I suspect: the Jays can try to be involved all they want, but they’re just not going to be as motivated to get a deal done as teams that are actually in the race.

Sad maple trombone: Jason Bay has been designated for assignment by the Mariners.

Aaaaaand, the Orioles are supposedly willing to move Dylan Bundy to make their flags flying forever dreams come true. Who are we to talk, though, eh?

Comments (122)

  1. It’s pretty unlikely, but no mention of Howie Kendrick (and to a lesser extent Erick Aybar) being on the block?

  2. In my fantasy land, the Jays trade Drabek, JP, and Gose for Lee and take on all his salary. Then flip Lee to the Orioles, eating a portion of his salary, for Bundy.

    • Holy shit, that’s awful.

      1) Why would the Phillies want our shit?
      2) Why would we want unproven Bundy when we’re going for it and just got Cliff fucking Lee.

      • 1) Jr. is an idiot. He also refuses to take any salary and is an idiot. He likes RBI and HR, JP has RBI and HR. Plus gets two of his old guys back! In fantasy land, I’m banking on him being a real idiot.
        2) Lee is great but expensive. Bundy is cheap with his control, even if you have to take on $20 or so million of Lee’s contract.
        3) It was in my fantasy land.

      • Because then you could trade Bundy for King Felix or Verlander and maybe a centre for the Leafs.

        And seeing we’re in fantasyland,can you get me a pony?

    • The O’s have Wieters in the catcher spot….why would they want JP?

  3. Would trading Bautista really be that crazy? I mean, you’d have to get a lot back, but the guy has been in decline since the monster 2011 season. He’s still really good, but at this point we should be expecting a decline every year, and for a guy whose 32? And relies on bat speed?

    If you could get some combination of pitcher/catcher/second baseman back?

    Not that it’s likely to happen, but I’d be listening at least.

    • If you get profar/holland/b prospect

      • For Bautista?

        Why not just say that there is no way you want him traded?

        I tend to think Bautista is better than his numbers right now but his numbers are his numbers and they haven’t been all that impressive for some time now.

        If I were the Rangers I wouldn’t even deal Profar for him.

    • In that vaccum, sure, it makes sense. But they’ve tied too much up into him as their main guy, and too much into the window built around his contract, that, yes, it would be mind blowing if they did it.

    • Indeed.
      Have felt all year long, with no real proof, that there was something negative going on with Bautista.

      Your team leader does not get himself tossed out of a tie game for arguing with umpires.

      Friday night, after EE hits the grand slam, we get a shot of EE, Reyes and Melky engaging in mild celebration in the dugout. Bautista? He was sitting to EE’s immediate right and ignoring him totally. Had is arms folded and was giving death stare out at the filed. It was a look that was certainly disengaged if not downright frustrated/angry/jealous or whatever.

      I’m thinking its time to trade Joey Bats while he would still bring back a boatload of roster players/MLB ready prospects, and I don’t see it as a step backwards at all.

      They have to change the makeup of the team and the culture in the clubhouse. This is now two consecutive years with some turmoil in the clubhouse and it may be that moving Bautista would solve both problems while filling some holes.

      • I think he was pissed because he had missed his opportunity not because he’s some asshole that can’t be happy for anyone else.

      • Umm, EE and JB are best buds, they always sit next to each other. Maybe JB was doing the silent treatment for the 2 seconds you saw him?

      • And all this trade Bautista stuff is only going on because the starting pitching has been so awful, if it wasn’t then Jose is having a fine year with the Jays right in the thick of it.

        • If his year is so fine then why does it seem like everyone is saying that he should be the trade bait and not Encarnacion?

          The most obvious answer is the correct one: Bautista is not having much of a season.

          Not sure why fans seem to think that the returns would be equal for these two yet they don’t want to entertain the idea of E5 going? It’s like other teams have no ability to see the reasons why.

          • On pace for mid to high 30′s in HR and OPS .840+.

            Way better than Albert Pujols for just one super expensive long contract example.

          • Bautista is going to wind up a 4-5 win player this year. Not much of a season?

            • Hey if you want to go by just one stat that hasn’t even gone through the defensive adjustments then by all means.

              But let’s use WAR here. Bautista is 39th or so in the league in WAR depending on the site you wish to use.

              That will not fetch a player one year removed from being the top prospect in the game, a mainstay in a rotation (who has a higher WAR than Bautista) plus more? Holland is 26 with an ERA + of 139…………..

              Doesn’t that sound fucking crazy? This isn’t the Bautista that finished top 5 in MVP voting a couple years in a row.

              • That’s 39th in position player WAR, want to add pitchers (like Holland) and he falls way down the list.

              • Uh… I’m not arguing that anybody’s making that ridiculous trade, just arguing that your assertion that Bautista is not having much of a season is clearly wrong.

                • I meant in the context of demanding ridiculous returns.

                  He’s having a good season but his numbers are down from last year too and other teams can see this.

                  A few years ago Bautista was top 5 in WAR for the entire league position players and pitchers. Now he wouldn’t crack the top 50 but fans want returns like an 8 WAR player.

                  I think you even mentioned yourself that you would rather see Bautista dealt rather than E5. You said it was because Bautista was in decline, this may or may not be true but the numbers do reflect it and other teams can see it.

                  In other words the king’s ransom isn’t going to be on the table here.

                  • Yeah EZ he is down. He had 2 years that were up there as two of the best slugging seasons ever. Now he is in his second year of “just” being a star slugger. It’s a decline against the 2 great years but it is still way up over anything he did before it. So…. meh.

                    Doesn’t matter anyway – for a RF/DH/3B and for the money, he is good and looks like he still has plenty more in him. Are we trading him for a better RF? Otherwise what is the point exactly?

                    Unless we now have infinite money and infinite roster spots, I don’t see what good it does to trade him. (Barring as always, if you get offered the sun and the moon).

                    • That’s really the point I was trying to make.

                      Aside from Bautista’s value on the field………….(not arguing against the trade proposed just any type of huge deal with the Rangers)

                      The trade partner is a consideration too. With the Rangers this type of move doesn’t seem to be in their MO in recent trends. This was a team built mainly on smart drafting and selling high on players like Teix. It seems almost absurd that they would now get desperate and over pay. Of course, I’m not sure all the inner-workings of any franchise but on the face this would seem to be an extreme move for a team that isn’t destined to fall apart if they don’t win this year.

                  • I still think you get a pretty crazy return, but I can’t disagree.

        • Problem is, the solutions to the pitching is to either wait 5 years or trade Bautista for some arms. This team has way took many holes and trading our best player is the quickest way to fill them

      • Nonsense.

      • “Have felt all year long, with no real proof, that there was something negative going on with Bautista.”

        You’re not crazy.

      • Agreed

    • Bautista is still under contract for long enough that his value isn’t going to suddenly plummet before next year’s trade deadline. I think, if things prove to be shitty again, AA has to be more serious about cutting his losses. They have enough assets on the books for next year to make up for the loss of prospects this past off season so you’ve got to give this team another shot.

      There were enough people who believed in them before this season and, so, you have to think that keeping this team together and expecting different results isn’t so crazy, right…?

      • Look at Boston, obviously they did some trading last year but they really only tinkered this off season ddin’t blow the whole thing up

  4. Hmm…

    Twitter
    SFX Baseball Group ‏@SFXBaseball 7m Congrats to #Jays pitcher @kyledrabek4, who’s been named #FloridaStateLeague Pitcher of the Week while rehabbing his way back to the Majors.

    • He’s killing them A-ball hitters. Killing them!

      It’s interesting, though, for sure. You kinda can’t help but wonder if maybe part of what was wrong with him pre-injury was the wear and tear that led to the injury.

      • Agreed on both points

        • One would have to think that he’s throwing strikes at least

          Too lazy to confirm

          • 3 BB and 20 K in 20.2 innings. We definitely shouldn’t be drawing too much from those numbers (small sample against weak competition and blah blah blah,) but they’re at least encouraging.

      • I’ve considered this, and I really fucking hope that is the case. Wouldn’t it be nice to have something positive happen to this organization in terms of pitching?

        I would say that Rogers is a bright spot – which he is – but essentially he just reminds me of John Farrell and then I’m pissed off again.

    • I’m impressed with just 3 walks in his 20 innings so far.

      Also, I heard (don’t remember where, may have been another commenter on a different thread here) that Hutchison was sitting in the mid-90′s in his rehab appearances. Maybe that is just because he was pitching a couple innings and had more energy, but that is very encouraging, seeing how he was throwing low-90′s before.

      • I didn’t realize the velocity was that high, but he allowed one hit and one walk while striking out 8 in four innings in his last start. I’d be interested to know what the timeline is for these guys working their way back up.

      • I think he was 92-93 with bumps to 94 or maybe 95. Definitely wasn’t “sitting” mid-90s though.

        • A guy who was at the Hutchison start in Dunedin said via twitter that he was sitting 93-96 and touching 97. Maybe just a hot stadium gun? But he was apparently doing the weighted ball thing during his rehab….

      • Hutchinson was hitting 95 just before he blew out the elbow and sitting 92-93.

        • In 2011 Drabek pitched 55 BBs in 78 IPs
          In 2012 he pitched 47 BBs in 71 IPs
          it might have had something to do with an injury, but i just think his delivery was poor.

  5. Please please pilfer the Cards again by trading bullpen guys for high upside position players.
    That org is too good and must be dragged back to the pack.

    • Pilfer the Cards? I’m sorry but teams that fly banners in a season that a certain trade made a huge difference can’t be the pilfered ones.

      Not saying the Jays lost but isn’t it fair to say they had different needs and both won?

      In that transaction the Cards got: A starter, a couple bullpen arms, some other spare parts and cash. And they opened up CF for a player that was outplaying Rasmus for the job. Did I mention that they won the World Series?

      To add to that they also received some draft picks when a few of those spare parts signed elsewhere. Everyone wets themselves when AA gets one so it’s fair to mention when it goes the other way.

      That was a great transaction for the Cardinals and you probably wouldn’t find a single fan outside of AA nut huggers to call that a pilfering.

      • Don’t forget the Cards got two supplement picks from the pieces they added in the Colby trade. Not like they didn’t get any prospects, as they knew that Edwin Jackson and Dotel would be type-B free agents and net them a pick.

        I would say the Cards did just fine in that deal. A rare win-win type of deal.

        • I did mention that part as it was an essential part of the deal from a well run franchises point of view and nobody can argue that the Cards aren’t run close to the top.

          I have them number 1.

      • I stand by my use of Pilfer. I don’t deny that the cards got what they wanted out of the trade. But I’d do that deal again in a heartbeat even if you told me that this guarantees the Cards the W.S.

  6. Is John Danks someone AA could be looking at, he’s owed a bunch I know but he is signed for the ‘window years’.

  7. No way the A’s trade Addison Russell.
    He was their first pick in 2012 and already Baseball America
    has him at # 19 on their Top 50 Prospect List, published July 8.

  8. Rumours schmoomers – let’s get back to DiManno’s article…

    I read the first sentence* and lost my eyes to the dull spoon in my hand.

    * “sentence” used in the loosest of terms… how loose? Looser than a Sportsnet 360 writer’s mom… ugh…

  9. What’s the plan with Casey Janssen?

    I hope it’s not to re-sign him, a then 33 year old reliever with serious injury history, to a multi-year “save inflated” contract after next season. If it gets to that, I’d prefer they let him walk. I hope the Jays can cash in on his, I assume, fairly good trade value.

  10. Jose will not be traded UNLESS someone dangles a high, and I mean high quailty starter and a top infielder. If that’s the case, the move is made. Right now, Texas would definitely make Profar available for Jose…it would take more than Profar to swing that deal from the Jays perspective. Texas have been to the dance and want a champsionship badly…if it takes Profar as part of the cost to do it, they’ll do it. But, as Stoeten says, ” In that vaccum, sure, it makes sense. But they’ve tied too much up into him as their main guy, and too much into the window built around his contract, that, yes, it would be mind blowing if they did it.” That’s very true but consider as well the key thing is AA, Paul and Rogers want this team to compete for years and that goal is not necessarily tied to one person’s contract and the window it represents. I mean, one can argue that EE is more valuable than Jose and despite being the voice of Latin America and negotiating contracts etc with AA on behalf of the Latin players, Jose has not been a leader as much this year as in the past. EE and Reyes have cut into that role significantly and it’s enhanced by their play compared to Jose. It’s not just the stats that are bothering Jose, it’s his status on the team overall.

  11. LS: I agree with you about Casey. They need to maximize value and if they’re smart, they should seriously consider a healthy Morrow for Casey’s role next season.

    • That would be the antithesis of smart.

      • Yes Stoeten. I realize that starters have significant value compared to closers, even successful closers. So taking that truth and sticking by it makes sense. The caveat for me, likely not you, is the Morrow experiment has not been successful. To me, for whatever medical reason, he cannot make 200 innings consistently. Simply, he’s a closer. At some point, he’ll need to make that transition.

    • Morrow failed as a closer in Seattle, which is why the Jays were able to get him for a minor-league outfielder and Brandon League’s 6.00 ERA (note: may actually have been 2.50 or something; it just felt like 6.00 after watching him shit the bed what seemed like every night).

      • The value of the innings a starter provides is so, so, so much greater than what you get from a closer that it’s crazy to think that, if Morrow can start, anybody would consider moving him back to the bullpen.

        • I agree completely. The only reason to move Morrow back to the pen would be if he were running out of energy way too early on a regular basis, but that isn’t the case.

  12. With all that’s happened to the Jays in the past twelve months, the one thing I would like to have seen happen was for Hutchinson to pitch an entire year. He really knew HOW to pitch at such a young age. He didn’t throw it by guys but he could set them up, figure out their tendencies and weaknesses on the fly better than the pregame charts could tell him. And now, from the posters here, I find out he’s sitting at mid 90s and striking out people. If he comes back like that, he’s a guy that can really help the rotation at some point when he’s healthy and for years to come. He’s crafty, like a crafty little lefty but of course, from the right side.

    • thats the one thing?
      holy fuck if I made a list of the 100 things i would have wished for while watching this year i dont think that would have been on it.

  13. I thought I was alone in loving Kolten Wong, seems I’m just part of the crowd these days.

    How would Cards react to a deal like Janssen, Oliver and Delabar for Wong? Helps them this year with their left handed relief needs and gives them a “:Closer” for next year too, along with a long term cheap relief arm.

    • I like Wong but I’d hope they’d include something more if we sent all 3 of those guys.
      Kid looks good but he’s still unproven at the ML level and those are 3 good/experienced arms.

      • Yeah, no way I include Delabar in there for just Wong. Delabar should have big value due to cheapness and limited service time, no?

        • Yes, Delabar has a high value but so does Wong. And Oliver is basically worthless right now.

          The deal would be a year and 2 months of Janssen plus 4.5 years of Delabar for 6 years of Wong. If Wong works out it’s a big win for Jays, if he doesn’t then Cards win big.

          Fair deal for me and it deals from a position of strength (bullpen) to fortify a weakness (2B).

          • Would have said Octavio Dotel is useless a couple years back, too.

            Hard to see how the Cardinals would give up Wong for two relievers, though.

  14. OMGGGGG maybe if he acts quickly, AA can orchestrate a four-way trade, sending Bautista to the Dodgers and acquiring Yasiel Puig, Mike Trout and Bryce Harper while those guys are still young and unproven!!!!!!!! Idk if that’s enough though!!!!!

    Listen, Bautista isn’t going anywhere. If not for his ridiculous first half of 2011, what he’s doing right now wouldn’t seem so disappointing. I don’t think anyone would’ve been begging AA to trade him just for being a .240s hitter with mid/upper-30 homer power if that’s what he did right away following a season in which he hit .262 or something with about 35-40 more homers than anyone (except Buck Martinez, who, then laughably, said on opening day he’d hit 30) really expected. I doubt they’d get Profar in a deal for Bautista, but that’s not even what matters. To trade Bautista for prospects, even MLB-ready ones like Profar, would be completely counteractive since the team would need to find even more talent that they don’t already have for 2014 and 2015.

    The only things AA should be doing at the deadline are dealing surplus talent that isn’t truly part of the team’s core (read: Darren Oliver, possibly Casey Janssen) and getting in a better position to fix the team for another attempt at contention in 2014.

    • Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the Bautista trade to the Dodgers would require moving Colby Rasmus into the starting rotation and using Josh Johnson as a second baseman.

  15. Kid Ghetto: That’s the most obvious solution, just a little tinkering. But, I look at that starting staff, 2nd base, catcher and I say, compete in 2014 and 15 with this team? Really?

    RR and BM are not going to contribute much to this team. BM is a millionaire because of this fastball and potential but never has done much with it, consistently. If I’m AA, I move him to the pen. Hutchinson is better than Morrow in my opinion, was last year unti he got hurt. The thing about BM is he’s a thrower, not a pitcher. Even hard throwers like Verlander have a feel for pitching that I never witnessed with BM. I just never did. The team needs starting pitching, a 2nd baseman and a catcher before they compete, Jose or not.

    • The reason he was so good last year was because he learned to pitch more effectively instead of just “throwing.”

    • Stop.

    • Brandon Morrow had an ERA of 2.96 last year (2.94 before the June 11 start in which he was injured), in a season in which he finally started pitching, not just throwing, on a consistent basis. Also, once you have staying power in the majors (which you can’t deny that Morrow has had), it’s not terribly hard to be a millionaire. I’m not going to say that the Jays are getting all they’re paying for on the Morrow contract, seeing as he’s injured and was getting roughed up before that. But his injury isn’t severe and he’ll (hopefully) be fine next year. Even if he goes back to consistently posting an ERA of 4.25ish, that’s still better than what anyone other than Buehrle who had anything expected of them has done.

      As long as Morrow can start, he should be starting. He’s not going to be a whole lot more successful as a reliever, especially since relief pitching is more conducive to all-out throwing as hard as you can for an inning and trying to blow the ball past everyone (if, like Morrow, you have the velocity. Darren Oliver couldn’t do that.) That isn’t a strategy that has worked for Morrow. 2012 was his best year because that was the one season where he actually tried PITCHING instead of reaching back and firing the ball at 97 and hoping for the best.

      It’s possible that Ricky Romero may never help the team again, even though he’s been pitching better in Buffalo (for the most part) lately. His problem has been that he couldn’t find the strike zone with a telescope, and then gets inside his own head. That’s how 12.46 ERAs happen. Also, I think it’s a bit much to say that Hutch was better than Morrow before the two got injured. Morrow was head and shoulders above Hutch in terms of performance across the board. Hutch pre-injury was better than 2013 Morrow, but the two aren’t comparable. I think both will be fine as starters, but I think it’s a little early to go and expect more in the short-term (2014) from Hutchison than Morrow.

  16. Alright if were talking trades heres my idea from yesterday. Nolin, one of jannsen/cecil/ delabar and boner for kendrick. Who says no?

  17. I think it’s not unreasonable to trade anyone on the roster right now. You might want to hold on to Rasmus/Lawrie – but anything that isn’t a big ceiling prospect should be on the block for them. The team as it is currently constituted does not have the core to a non-lucky World Series. I’d note that lucky World Series winners aren’t all that infrequent.

  18. side note – you know who hits fuckin awesome in texas? adam lind,
    you know who needs a bat? texas………..
    anything?
    no?

    • maybe lind oliver and davis?

      • Yep, I cant stand watching lind hit anymore. He has reverted back to his old self the last 4-6 weeks after an incredible run in may and june. Add another item to AA’s shopping list this winter: DH.

  19. Where has all of this Bautista-bashing come from? Are people really that upset that he got tossed yesterday that they’re starting to complain about his numbers now? The “declining numbers” that he’s shown this year currently place him as the most valuable right fielder in the league according to Fangraphs, half a win ahead of the next best.

    I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

    • I’m with you on this

    • Too many people are overly concerned about having likable players who conduct themselves in a perfect manner at all times. I don’t give a shit about that. Just give me productive players. If someone like Bautista wants to curse out and ump but is still productive over a full year? Fine. I don’t about Lawrie being an annoying super-bro as long as he plays well.

      • Bautista’s number have taken a dive since the two monster years, but he’s still a top shelf power/OBP machine. Decline is worth considering, but he’s still a major piece for right now.

  20. Not an armchair GM trade proposal but a question that’s somewhat related-
    Who on this team is untouchable?
    Outside of Reyes and Edwin, I’m hard-pressed to think of anyone else. Maybe a couple of bullpenners?

    • I would add JBats and Cletus to the list and maybe Lawrie.

      • GSMC:
        J-Bats I’m torn on. Much to Stoeten’s chagrin, I’m starting to wonder if maybe he might be a problem in the room. Not entirely convinced yet, but he is a common denominator.
        I’ll drink the Cletus Kool-aid any day and Lawrie, aside from the antics, totally deserves a full-on healthy season.
        So yeah, you’ve swayed me a bit

        • Given the Jbats was injured early in the season, I don’t think he’s had that had of a season, inconsistent yes, bad not so much. I would like to see what Lawrie is capable of with a full spring training and some extended work with Mottola. Cletus has been great this season at a premium position, and we really don’t have anyone waiting in the wings.

        • I’m not upset that people would dare think ill of my beloved Bautista. It’s not to my chagrin that I’m saying it’s dumb to believe any such nonsense. It’s because of, y’know, the total lack of evidence, and the need for invention of the flimsiest variety.

          • Fair enough.
            Just trying to figure out the problem in the best forensic/grasping at straws way possible.

    • I’d think Bautista is about as untouchable as this team gets. And Dickey.

      Not on merit, obviously, but on marketing. I may be wrong, but those are the two who would absolutely shock me to see moved, with Edwin close behind on that list.

      Anyone else, I can’t imagine why not.

      • That whole marketing angle is an interesting point Would they worry about that kind of thing in New York or St.Louis?
        Not disputing you, just wondering.

        • You think the Yankees treat Jeter and Rivera like normal commodities? Look at what they’re paying them.

          • No matter what point you’re trying to prove, comparing Jeter and Rivera to Bautista and Dickey is nonsense. Two are lifelong icons and while Bautista is a very good player, Dickey is in the midst of wasting one of the few years he has left.. Thinking people would be outraged by a Dickey trade is a massive stretch. As long as the return was anything close to what we gave up to get him I’m sure the vast majority of people would support it.

  21. Isn’t every player on the team a common denominator?

    • Common denominator = bullshit that allegedly when down last year under fucking Farrell.
      So no. Not every player.

  22. Howie Kendrick please.

  23. A few years ago stoeten argued to trade bautista after his fluke season before he declined. Now he calls him untouchable.

    • A few years ago he hadn’t confirmed his status as a reliable elite slugger.

    • Are you honestly that fucking dumb?

      I’m not saying I wouldn’t trade him, I’m saying I don’t think the team would.

      And yes, I thought trading him at the peak of his breakout season would have been the best move for the club. That’s not a completely defensible position?

      • In defense of Stoeten because I just know he’d defend anyone of us posting here with kind, well thought out, respectful replies ;-), from a marketing perspective, the team are very unlikely to move Jose or Dickey. If AA ultimately fucks up, it might be (I don’t know, but either does anyone) because, unlike Gillick, he was not going to blow up even a partial part of this core to get better overall…think Tony Fernandez and Fred McGrff to SD for Alomar and Carter. It took Labatts about as long, if not more, to open their wallets to give Gillick payroll flexibility. This team is not playing for each other more than half way through the year, the starting pitching is weak, they have holes in the infield and they do not have a catcher good enough defensively to get the max out of a pitching staff…forget about the bat, that’s a plus, defense is the catcher’s main job. I suggest because of the haste they were thrown together, the expectations, the injuries etc, they are not playing for each other, not as a team and their defense, especially infield defense, is not good. I question some of the coaches too, not their efforts, just they’re not the right fit at this time, especially the bench coach.

    • Yeah, I hate it when people change their minds after collecting experience and evidence. A real man sticks by his opinion even when given solid evidence that his opinion was wrong.

      Stoeten, you flip-flopper!

  24. Has nothing to do with this topic, but I saw where former Blue Jay Frank Castillo drowned on Saturday down in Arizona while on a family outing, he was 44.

  25. Nessy, Nolin, Jenkins to Astros J. Castro. JPA to Cubs for Arrieta (turn into reliever). Loup and Oliver to D’Backs for Davidson (2014 Lawrie 2b, Davidson 3b), Boni to Nats for Storen.
    Janssen and Davis (cash) to Tigers for Castellanos (won’t happen but can dream). Depending on bio suspensions Cabrera to Texas for feliz

  26. Why are so may former jays dying in odd ways? Next stoeten will dying stuffing a hot dog down his throut.

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