Not horribly unsurprising news here, but in speaking with reporters ahead of today’s afternoon game with the Yankees, John Gibbons said that the club doesn’t expect to see Brandon Morrow or Melky Cabrera return to the field for them this season.

According to the tweetings, like this one from Barry Davis of Sportsnet, the club does expect to see Colby Rasmus, Jose Bautista, Dustin McGowan, Maicer Izturis, and Steve Delabar return.

What impressively awful seasons for Cabrera and Morrow! In fact, they were included among the seven key underperformances/absences I used in this little tidbit, which you may not have seen buried in yesterday’s Griff Bag:

Morrow, Johnson, Dickey, Cabrera, Reyes, Lawrie and Izturis– seven players who accumulated 21 wins above replacement in 2012, per Baseball Reference, and this year have been worth -1.6 combined.


But hey, this is all Gibby’s fault, right? Or it’s because, like John Farrell says, the Jays only care about tools and not mental make-up and fundamentals, or whatever was yammering about in those quotes from yesterday that the Fan 590 has been talking about for, seemingly, hours.

Comments (77)

  1. Might as well try to get them healthy for next year. That WAR comparison stat from the Griff bag really says it all doesn’t it?

    • Sheesh. It was not unreasonable to expect something like 20 wins from that group again though. The regression that was to be expected from Dickey and Cabrera could have been mostly made up for by a full season of Morrow and reasonable improvement from Lawrie.

      Is it completely ridiculous to think that 15-18 wins is a reasonable expectation from them next year though? I don’t think so. (But as this year has shown, reasonable expectations mean jack shit.)

  2. How are Farrell’s comments any different than the comments that Dirk Hayhurst has been fairly consistent in saying about how the Blue Jays have no developmental plan regarding their pitchers beyond the mentality of moving them up if they have any sucess at the level they’re at?

    • There was a thing in Klaw chat yesterday about the Jays trying to teach Sanchez a sinker…for whatever that’s worth.

    • It’s a non-story that the Sportsnet family of media entities is trying to use to recoup plummeting fan interest as the Jays turn into the Buffalo Bisons.

    • Swarmy jerkoff Hayhurst is even more annoying than Zaun.

      • Agreed but Cosentino is just as big a piece of work. Neither of them can get to the point without spending 15 minutes spitting out every 3 syllable word they know.

        • Classy story by dirk yesterday on the radio about when he was a blue jay, he took a huge shit and clogged up the bullpen toilet then used brooms to mash it down the toilet after. He came out of the bathroom, in the middle of the game (according to him) covered with brown splatter.

          He also basically said that Roy halladay is an asshole and never spoke to anyone. Mention he heard him talk once the entire season they played together. Just thought that was interesting…

  3. Don’t forget the lack of a winning mentality!

  4. Somehow I’m experiencing a sick pleasure to see just how bad this season can get. Ugh is right.

  5. Nothing happens in a vacuum. This has been going on for 4 years, no pitching, no defense, no depth, constant injuries, poor managing, poor fundamentals, poor clutch hitting.

    The 1 constant in all of this? Alex

  6. Morrow can’t be worse right?

    • I’m going to keep my expectations low on Morrow going into next season. I’ve come to expect a lot from him the past few years and end up with a shitburger each time.

    • Morrow isn’t coming back next year. I’ll leave you to decide whether that’s worse or better than what he served up in 2013, but he ain’t pitching for the Jays in 2014.

  7. They’ve removed Zaun’s Farrell video from the web site. That’s pathetic.

    • where Zaun agreed with him and talked about the Jays having not drafted any stars in 8 years? that bit?

      • I wonder if Rogers will quietly replace Zaun this off-season. I can’t imagine the brass loves his tendency to say what’s on his mind. When the product he’s analyzing isn’t very good, what else is he going to say? Same for Hayhust (who loves to hear himself talk a little too much, though).

  8. Isn’t it funny how the guys with guaranteed contracts aren’t coming back?

  9. So two consecutive tweets in my feed today:

    Barry Davis: Delabar, McGowan, Bautista, Rasmus, Izturis all expected back this year.
    Goodlife Fitness: Who are you staying healthy for?

    Not that I believe any of those 5 will actually be back, but why would the Jays even want them to come back? Talk about everything to lose and nothing to gain. Shut them down, shut Dickey down, shut Encarnacion down, shut Lawrie down, and get down to the serious business of tanking.

  10. Feeling great that we’re the Blue JAAAys again.

    Well – I guess we’ve been heading towards Buffalo all season…


  11. So the Jays player development has been bad?

    It seems players such as D’arnaud, Syndergard, Hechavaria, Marsinek, Alvarez have all been doing alright.

    We’ll see what happens with Drabek, Hutch, Stroman, Nolan.

    I think their track record since AA has been here looks ok so far. It’s still too early to tell.

    Aren’t Pillar and Marsinek makeup guys?

    I think you go with tools over makeup, because you can’t teach talent.

    • Halladay was drafted in 1995; Aaron Hill in 2002.
      Since then, pretty much nothing.
      The guys you mentioned may or may not be something,
      too early to tell.

      What we do know is that drafting and developing
      two impact players over a span of 18yr is a pretty crappy record.

      • Plus we managed to fuck up Hill’s career to the point where he was going to be out of baseball in a year or so, before he got traded and immediately got good again.

        You forgot about Wells and Rios too. Apparently Wells was beyond help, but Rios has had some semi-useful moments since the Jays gave him away.

        • And how does Bautista get playing time dumb ass?

          • Yes, I’m sure the only reason JPR let the White Sox take Rios for nothing was that otherwise there would have been no way to get playing time for journeyman Jose Bautista.

            I don’t remember who was playing 3B and LF at that time — probably nobody significant — but I’m pretty sure there would have been some other options to get JB in the lineup.

            In any case, the point of the thread was to note that the Jays have an incredible record of taking pretty decent players and driving them off cliffs, Rios being one of those players. They’re kind of the anti-Yankees in that sense. Not sure how Bautista’s playing time three years ago is relevant to that discussion.

            • I believe Rolen was still at 3rd at that time. Not sure about LF though.

              • I think Rolen was traded at the deadline in 2009, then Rios was let go during the waiver period a few weeks later. So EE was probably playing 3rd since he came back in the Rolen deal.

                Not sure who was in LF then because I think they had sent Snider down already, or he was hurt. Davis wasn’t acquired until 2010 I think …. so maybe Fred Lewis? Some complete shitbag, anyway.

        • Don’t forget Chris Carpenter who they more pissed away than failed with.

          • How did they piss Carpenter away? He was injured a few times and in his last year (4/5 5.28) he went down with a labrum tear requiring surgery. At that time very few labrum surgery candidates ever made it back. They offered him a minor league incentive contract and he refused it. Btw his record up til that point wasnt stellar and when he signed with the Cards he missed all of 2003.

      • But you can’t blame 18 year on current regime, they’ve only been at it since the 2010 draft, and their record seems like it’s going to look pretty good. Don’t forget Jays farm system was rated top 5 by most systems before all the trades.

        • Absolutely, all these guys from St. Louis everyone goes on about were all drafted between about 2006-2009 when Riccardi was keeping the system mostly barren/low ceiling.

  12. It seems likely that the Jays will play on turf in 2014.
    If they do, they have zero chance of winning with this group.

    There are too many guys with core issues, back issues, hamstring
    problems and what have you to keep them healthy for a full season
    playing on turf.

    They may lose on grass.
    They will lose on turf.

  13. Who on the 40 man roster does Stroman take in September when rosters expand? Ramon Ortiz?

  14. It’s okay, except for that 11-game winning streak, this team has played like they all belong on the DL for various forms of shittiness.

    7 players combining for 21 WAR in 2012, combine for -1.6 in 2013. That’s beyond fucked.

    What’s worse is the Jays are a combined 13.0 fWAR, good for 22nd in the league. 11.9 of those 13 wins are made up of Rasmus, Encarnacion, and Bautista, with an additional 3.3 fWAR between Delabar, Cecil, and Janssen – three guys who don’t even play on a regular basis. Talk about shitting the bed.

  15. Say what you guys want about the points Farrell made (and Zaun) on our lack of development and focus on tools. While it might not be exactly a 1% to 99% ratio of emphasis there, I would agree we have had a real lack of player development within our ranks the past several years. I’m not talking about players who have played some games at the Jays level here and there, I’m talking about an impact player or lack thereof.

    To me, Zaun and Hayhurst are a breath of fresh air compared to the Pro-Jays thumping Buck Martinez and Tabler. They call it like it is, good and bad. (Example) Zaun made several comments about Lawries selfish approach early in the year. He talked about the extra movement in his stance, the failure to get the ball to the right side with a runner. He didn’t just say, I’m sure he’ll get out of this funk doing the things that got him to this level. He argued publicly that Lawrie needed changes to his mechanics. Call him the Don Cherry of baseball all you want, but there have been many cases since where he has praised Lawrie and his approach since making these changes.

    • Everybody saw the things wrong with Lawries swing and knew a change needed to be made, Zaun just finds the most assholish way to say the obvious to get everyone talking about what a straight shooter he is.

      A year ago Zaun was talking about how dumb trying to build a team from within is, now he’s saying their development sucks. He just goes with what will get the biggest rise out of fans and provides no real analysis.

      • He did not say it was dumb to build a team from within last year. He said we were failing big time to build from within because are graduating AAA players at the time like JPA, Gose, etc were failing miserably. There’s a big difference there. I remember his rants at the time, he was questioning our minor league players and that they should not be everyday players on the club, thus maybe looking to free agency to fill the voids. The harsh criticism of JPA’s first season after his rant threw a lot of hate to Zaun at the time but we are now calling for JPA to be as far away from this team as possible in 2014.

        Is he right all the time? Hell no, but I like that he’s not afraid to question things instead of playing the Blue Jay optimistic trumpet on every topic. Like I said, he often gives praise to many of the players too

        • “Call him the Don Cherry of baseball all you want…”
          Nothing wrong with that. Thats exactly what he is. Mind you Cherry isnt as good as he used to be. At his peak, Cherry was right (IMHO) about 75% of the time. But he said a lot of things that needed to be said.

  16. So what if they are talking about it for hours Stoeten?

    I find it interesting, and considering this massive hangover style shit of a season, perhaps they are on to something about our minor league and draft system?

    There are obvious problems, time to get to the root of it all.

  17. For all the stupid talk about the team needing an “identity”, I’ve kind of dreamed one up for next year, something like a “Team Bounceback.”

    Sign Chooch for behind the dish, trade for Asdrubal Cabrera and shift him to 2B, maybe trade for Yovani Gallardo on the cheap… Obviously there would be aversion to adding more question marks to this team, but it might be the best way to acquire possibly impact talent without having to spend big bucks they probably don’t have in free agency, and without trading the Stroman’s and Sanchez’s in their farm system.

  18. To expect this team to be suddenly better than they are right now in 7 months is dreaming.

    This division is a meat grinder and the Jays are not up to it.

  19. Yeah. No way Gibby or any of the other coaches bear any responsibility for the failures of their charges, it’s just random chance conspiring with coincidence that produced such failing results.

    • +1. Is that you Mike Wilner?


      Of course Gibby has to take some of the heat but I don’t mind him as a manager. I prefer his in game management to Farrell or Cito.

      • Why does Gibbons have to take heat?

        • If for no other reason than for the complete lack of fucks given with 30 games left to play. That’s if you really want to give him a pass on this shitshow of a season ( i know, not his fault…)
          As for Gibby over Cito, you’re either racist or an idiot. Gibbons doesn’t come close in any aspect of the game, ludicrous to put him in the same sentence as Cito

          • I don’t get why anyone has to take the heat. Out entire team is hurt. The starting outfield right now was the bisons starting team a bit ago. How can you blame anyone for that?

            • I don’t think the team will play for him and I don’t think he’s much of a leader. Results speak for themselves and its easier to fire the staff than replace the whole team (which is my preference)

  20. Mark my words, Morrow is done as a starter, I said it about McGowan and others. He’s never given the Jays 200 innings and never will. Planning a rotation with a bandaid in the top 3 is just stupid because when he gets hurt (like he always does and will again next year) and poof here’s a whole at the top of the rotation AGAIN.

    Look, obviously grass is not going into the Rogers center this off season which means the top position playing free agents are going to be out of the question. So, the focus is going to be pitching right? Does it make sense to plan a rotation with a guy that has increasing health issues sitting as your number 2 or 3? Or does it make more sense to put him in the pen throwing absolute gas and spend the money on free agent starters like Santana and Nolasco or something like that. Dickey, Santana, Nolasco, Buerhle and Stroman… that looks alright.

    Sure this is going to rattle some people and there will be some disagreement however, say what you want but you can’t deny that it’s not a concern. I am sick and tired of injuries on this team that end up creating giant holes which eventually unravel the season because there’s no major league ready plan B to go to.

  21. Hey, morons, this isn’t xbox where you take your 5 starters and get 1000 innings out of them. You don’t necessarily have to rely on Morrow to give you 200 innings for him to be a valuable member of this rotation. I mean shit, it’s nearly September and Clay Buchholz has like 85 innings under his belt while still managing to be the most valuable pitcher on that staff. The Jays have lots of mediocre depth, what they don’t have are guys with top of the rotation talent. Sending one of those to the pen would be painfully fucking stupid.

    • Ya, guys, just trade for these 5 guys. And when the other gm says no, just click the force trade button. Sounds about right..

    • Why waste a slot on a guy who has proven he can’t handle the job? Especially if you can turn him into a dominant piece in a different role. The old saying applies here: “if its broke, fix the goddamned thing for fucks sake!”

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