It’s another new week in this seemingly endless season, and here I’ve got another chance to mail in a Monday morning post, as over the weekend I found myself once again prattle onto the digital airwaves about the Jays, what the hell brought us to this mess, and where they go from here. This time, however, it wasn’t quite on the radio– it was on this week’s Blue Jays Plus podcast, with @Mentoch, and @Sherlander6, neither of whom has, apparently, received instruction from on high to not have me on. Not yet, at least.

It’s a lengthy one!

Check it out over at their site. My segment begins 51:40 mark. Alternatively, you can download it here.

Comments (23)

  1. Thanks again for coming on. I noticed Dirk sounded off about this subject today on Sportsnet.

    • I echo what Chris said. Thanks a lot, Mr. Stoeten.

      Along with Zach Mortimer you’re just the 2nd guy to make multiple appearances on the show this year, and I very much appreciate anyone who takes time out for our little show.

    • They are way worse off than the Jays. AA has his 2 best players locked up to great deals (EE and Jose) while the angels don’t (trout). AA can resign/extend rasmus, janssen, and Lawrie with the money trout would command and his worst contract (Johnson) is off the books, leaving just the buerhle contract

      The angels will now feel pressured to trade Trumbo to play hammy and Pujols at 1b or dh. Jays don’t have that problem

  2. the ocd troll is back in the game thread comments

  3. Nice spot. I think the key point is that even for the fan that follows baseball organizations very closely (reading BA, BP, scouting, drafting, contracts, etc.), the process and system of player development is the least understood area. As a fan you can get lots of information on what goes into scouting, and even more information on performance metrics at all levels, but what do we really know about the art/science of player development? Films like Pelotero and Sugar give a glimpse into player development and the courtship of prospects in the Dominican, and a book like Dollar Sign on the Muscle gives a glimpse into the (somewhat dated) world of scouting, but there isn’t anything out there that takes you through how an organization approaches raising a player through their system. Could be a really interesting series of interviews or lengthy posts…

  4. I would be curious to see a summary of what has happened since around June 24 with the 11 game winning streak and pushing briefly ahead of the Rays.

    Seems to me that position-wise we have been ok since then – that all the substantial injuries from that point have been pitching related.

    • Rasmus- both joses

      • Yeah I was looking it up – and Lawrie still wasn’t back and Melky. AND then all the pitching. Yeah we underperformed to start but caught it back up somewhat. But the injuries picked up all around since then. Fuck.

    • The thing is, it’s always pitching injuries . The jays do a relatively good job keeping batters healthy (maybe this year isn’t a great example), but are the worst team in the league at keeping pitchers healthy, and its been going on for years.

      We had Will Carroll on the podcast earlier in the year and unprompted he said this to us (linked below). Its the biggest issue the team has, and at least with the signing of Jaime Evans this is at least something they are starting to address.

  5. Sam Miller of Baseball Prospectus wrote an awesome piece today about the Angels shitty season and the call for heads to roll, and finished the article with a paragraph that I think should be sent to all of the meatheads who blame John Gibbons for the clusterfuck that is the 2013 Blue Jays:

    “Measuring manager contributions is tough. But the Angels are underperforming by about 20 wins or so this year. Unless you think managers are worth something close to 20 wins, then this isn’t all, or mostly, on him. Maybe some of it is, but good luck finding which some. And once you concede that most of the 20 wins aren’t his fault, and that the Angels are perfectly capable of underperforming by, say, 17 wins by chance and awfulness alone, then a) you must allow that for all we know they’re also capable of underperforming by 22 wins, and Scioscia has actually been worth wins this year and b) it stops mattering all that much, because somebody was going to get fired if this team won 79 games, too, and they dropped that far with or without whatever Scioscia was or was not worth.”

    • If managers were even worth 3 wins (over “replacement”) they would earn well over 10M a year. I’m pretty sure they don’t earn anything close to that. In fact maybe they would even make more money because their salary doesn’t go against any luxury tax, etc.

      The money always tells the truth.

      • That’s not how it works. You may want to look in to this thing called a “market” and “market value”. The FA players market is not the same thing as the market for managers.

        • Yeah the market says a ball player is worth somewhere around 3-5M per WAR. Keep in mind what “WAR” stands for. By definition it means you are above just any off the shelf replacement. If a manager was thought to be worth that many MORE wins over any other average, BIG LEAGUE manager, it would be reflected thusly in his salary. Especially with no restrictions like luxury tax.

          Instead you not only have a much lower average salary, but you also don’t ever see 5 year or 10 year contracts.

          Yes this is tongue-in-cheek in that it is unquantifiable, but that’s sort of my point – it’s all so unquantifiable.

          • I don’t understand what you’re getting at. Of course a manager is paid higher based largely on the perceived ability and value of the manager. It’s not like all managers have identical or random salaries. It’s just that the marginal value of a win is implicitly valued much lower in the market for managers than it is in the market for FA players.

        • I was going to say that exact same thing, but the other factor is that just because something is valuable, doesn’t mean something is paid for in the industry.

          I’ll use the classic Moneyball example of OBP. It has always been valuable, but people didn’t realise it (and therefore pay for it) for decades,

          • Yeah but come on, we’re not talking some stat within a stat (OBP being a stat adding up to RUNS). We’re talking about outright WINS. If a manager was truly seen to have such a swing in wins over the next best guy, it would be at least more closely reflected in contract length and dollar amount.

            In fact, managers are less likely to get injured – further cause for higher pay.

            I think a manager is important like a good mechanic for your car is important. But if you bought a used Corolla and expect to win a race because you have a good mechanic…. good luck.

            • The problem is it’s almost impossible to quantify the wins that are being added. With a player all their contributions are captured in stats, while a manager adds most of his value behind the scenes,

  6. I must have missed something, but what does the comment about the BJP boys not getting instructions from high not letting Stoeten on refer to?

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