johnsonarm

I guess this counts as early October, but this is certainly not quite what I expected when, as Ben Nicholson-Smith wrote at Sportsnet early last month, Alex Anthopoulos told reporters that he expected “to make a decision on whether to extend Josh Johnson a qualifying offer by early to mid-October.”

No decision has been made yet by the club, but still. At the time, Anthopoulos explained that “Once he’s had his full rest and we get to talk to our doctors and our trainers and so on, just to get a sense of how they feel he’s progressing. That would be the final piece of information that we need.”

Well how’s this for information on how he’s progressing?: Johnson’s agent Matt Sosnick tells MLB Trade Rumors that his client went under the knife of Dr. James Andrews this week, getting bone spurs removed from his pitching elbow.

Ouch.

Andrews, according to the report, told Johnson that “he feels the discomfort caused by the spurs was the cause of his struggles with the Blue Jays this year. No issues were found with Johnson’s elbow ligament. Johnson will be throwing in five weeks, and will be ready for spring training.”

As noted by @ecb282, that’s the same surgery that Sergio Santos had back in May, when a so-far prescient observer opined that: “The triceps is pretty related to the elbow, so it’s completely understandable how we’ve reached this point, though I’m sure that’s going to be enough to keep the waves of sarcasm about the deal with the White Sox from continuing to pound the battered shoreline of pointlessness. One day people will see what Santos is all about, I’m still confident, and it’ll be pretty fucking glorious.”

Johnson, you may recall, was initially experiencing what was believed to be a triceps problem as well. And Santos has come back more than OK, so…

Yeah, I don’t know. Part of me actually wants to believe that this really does give us reason to believe in a turnaround for Johnson next year, but I’ve kinda been burned by going down this road before, haven’t I? Alex Anthopoulos, too. But there’s a reason for it: Johnson, when he’s right, has a fuckload of talent.

And bone spurs, at least in the anecdotal sense, aren’t a catastrophic thing for a pitcher to have surgery to clean up. For example, in 2012, the Angels’ C.J. Wilson posted his worst ERA, FIP, and xFIP since becoming a full-time starter. He had surgery to remove bone spurs last off-season and bounced back this year– as he did in 2009 as well, after having bone spurs removed at the end of 2008.

Of course, that’s C.J. Wilson’s elbow, not Josh Johnson’s elbow. And Wilson and Santos are but two nicely cherry-picked examples.

But… man, I really do think that Johnson can still be a terrific pitcher– we saw it last spring, and in his three-and-a-half win, 191 inning 2012– and while the notion of giving him the $14-million qualifying offer that would ensure he remains with the Jays next year is pretty far gone out the window, the club has a month in which only they can negotiate with him. If they’re willing to offer him fair market value, and Johnson and Sosnick are comfortable not hitting the open market and extracting every last dollar from whatever kind of bidding war they can create– which, from everything I know from speaking to Sosnick and hearing him on the radio, sounds entirely plausible– maybe the two sides can work something out that will net the Jays a very high ceiling pitcher for a price that doesn’t bust their budget or limit their ability to do other things.

If, that is, they believe what Dr. Andrews is saying, and are willing to go down this road again.

I’m not so naive as to demand that big league ballplayers exhibit some kind of loyalty to clubs that have little interest in being loyal to them once their utility expires, but it wouldn’t surprise me either if Johnson would welcome, after all that the Jays did to acquire him, and with all contract possibilities being equal, the opportunity to have another chance at showing this city and this team what he can really do.

Or… OK, maybe I am naive. But as much as a pitcher having his elbow operated on isn’t a good thing, and as much as you can never have anything resembling certainty on a guy with the spotty health history Johnson has, there’s an opportunity here. If bone spurs were the issue, and they’re now gone, there is a good deal of precedent to suggest Johnson could get back to the guy you hoped you were getting. Given his contract status and the way this season went for him, the price to retain him may very well be tidy enough to try it again and hope that he’s right enough to end up blocking guys like Kyle Drabek, Drew Hutchison and Marcus Stroman.

The price has to be right, of course, and the budget will need the flexibility to still do a lot more, but– and this is even surprising a little bit to me– I haven’t been dissuaded enough by his 2013 disaster to stop believing in his talent. I’d bring him back on the cheap-ish without blinking an eye. No, really.

Hey, and if I read to the end of the MLBTR piece, I’d have noticed this:

Sosnick, who also represents free agent hurler Ricky Nolasco, tells MLBTR Johnson will absolutely consider signing with the Blue Jays if they do not make a qualifying offer.  Johnson loved playing for manager John Gibbons, and bought into the vision of GM Alex Anthopoulos.  A one-year deal with incentives seems likely for Johnson.

That’s all easy for Sosnick to say now, but… seriously, make it happen! And have a chat about Nolasco while you’re at it!

Comments (120)

  1. One wonders idly why he couldn’t have gotten this done during the season. Misses about a month, has the chance to come back late and rebuild some value?

    Well, enjoy your one-year, incentive-laden deal there, JJ.

    • Congratulations on having zero concept of how the diagnostic process works. It’s not necessarily like they knew this was the cause of his problems all along and chose to do nothing about it– I mean, for fuck sakes.

      • Uh, when I play MLB The Show I know exactly what happened to the player as soon as it’s done loading the post game screen.

      • Oh yeah? Well… well… yeah, I’m a moron today.

        (I wonder if 1yr./$8million gets it done with a one year mutual option gets him signed, though.)

        • FWIW, Sosnick said this as well:

          “I’m not sure,” Matt Sosnick, Johnson’s agent, replied when asked how he thought the surgery might affect his client’s market this winter. “There was an expectation on our part that he was going to sign a one-year deal regardless, and with everything being equal, I think he would probably choose to go back to Toronto. That’s more about respecting the fact that Alex went all-in, and he believes in Alex’s vision.”

          So, that sounds optimistic. All year I’ve been hoping they’d still get something done; a pitcher that good isn’t that bad without being hurt, I don’t think. If they got him back next year and he was a beast, everyone looks like a genius.

    • It’s Jays policy not to give out incentive laden deals, unfortunately.

      • Well, I suspect it’s only a policy for as long as they don’t need to rethink it being a policy. I have a hard time believing they’d be so absolute– though I don’t doubt that Anthopoulos is reticent based on the whole Frank Thomas vesting option thing.

        • maybe this is me being really ignorant of how these things work (and maybe this came up somewhere after the initial 6 comments I bothered to read) but in order to avoid the Thomas scenario-you’re referring to the second year vesting after meeting certain accomplisment pre-reqs right?- could they not do a deal with a low base salary and then instead of the incentives being option years can’t they just say “you do this here’s a cockload of cash”?

        • I understand AA’s point that incentive-laden deals can promote selfishness and affect in-game decision-making, but I think that probably has more of an effect on everyday position players than it does on starting pitchers. If there’s an innings threshold that a pitcher is trying to reach and a guy gets pulled early, I can see that being cause for frustration, but it’s based on something like days on active roster instead of total innings (which cushions against DL time without encouraging early trips to the bullpen) then maybe it’s not such a problem.

          I’m very skeptical of incentive-laden deals for all the reasons AA articulated, but I have to figure there’s bound to be a workaround for someone with JJ’s talent. It’s a risk no matter how you look at it.

  2. If he’s back it’s not more than one year right?

  3. I’d definitely dig seeing him back. Really, if he had this season and was still on the Marlins, Jays fans would be saying he’s a great buy low candidate. I think the fact we saw first hand how bad his season was, and that’s the only thing we’ve seen first hand, clouds our judgement of what he can do.

  4. Bone Spur removal = Exploratory surgery. I wonder if AA was in the room?

  5. I do think when it comes down to it – and I think AA said something similar himself – the Jays best course of action may be to add one reliable starter by trade or free agency, and then a second one that comes fairly cheap, with question marks and upside. And if that second player busts, luckily the Jays will have more depth next year to hopefully be okay. It all comes down to dollars, and $14M seems far rich, still, but I’d be happy to see Johnson be that second player.

  6. If he comes back, it shouldn’t stop Alex from pursuing another pitcher.

  7. The only issue I have with the idea that he was awful because of this is that he was awful the entire year.

    I get going in to an FA year you probably want to stay off the DL, but if he had a lingering injury and performed poorly, wouldn’t he have put his hand up at that point?

    Maybe I’m over thinking it, but its really hard to blame his entire season on this.

    • No it isn’t.

      • If it was bothering him early on why wouldn’t he have gotten it fixed then?

        its not like him battling through it did his stock any favour

        • Do you not remember how the season went? He made four starts in April, missed all of May with triceps inflammation (i.e. pain in the same area, which seems to happen often with this kind of stuff– see: Santos, Sergio). Came back and had a decent run of seven starts (3.54 ERA, 41K/13BB in 40 IP), went downhill for about five starts (during which time there was some kind of knee issue as well), then shut it down.

          The free agent stock stuff has nothing to do with anything.

        • Because Josh Johnson is not a doctor capable of making self diagnoses.

          • But if he was!

            • The new market inefficiency: major leaguers who also have medical degrees.

              • There are already so many doctors in this comment board already!

              • like…. Doc Halladay?
                That’s how he got the name, rigth?

                • Doc Halladay tried to put Hentgen back together again. That didn’t work…. but it sure was nice to see him cut up the competition when he was here. Alas, all those years of being a work horse seem to have caught up with him. On common trend in baseball over the last thirty years, are pitchers who go through injury prone seasons in their twenties, can pitch effectively into their late 30′s, early 40′s. Then there are the Doc’s, which I’d never count out, not yet, but seems to have lost a lot of steam after being so dependable for so long. In other words, long live Morrow!

    • Pitching hurts. Period. Most pitchers arms hurt all the time, and it’s difficult for them to tell the difference between “my arm hurts” and “I’m actually injured.”

  8. What’s cheap-ish going to be you think? 8 mill? 5 mill? Would he get more than 8 on open market just from a team banking on past performance?

    • I don’t know, to be honest. Somewhere between Haren and Liriano.

    • if you try to re sign him for 8, you risk the chance of losing him to FA if he wants to go back to the NL..

      they are probably better off with a QO

      • They get to actually discuss the terms with him and his agent, you understand. They don’t just make one bid and cross their fingers.

  9. Time to call in the “doctor” and let Johnson know those bone spurs weren’t the only issue.

    • How does that low hanging fruit taste?

      • Eh? I was referncing the gambit where we get the actor doctor in the room to sign him on the cheap. Extra cheap now that there’s a real problem.

        • Ahhh. Thought it was negative suckhole stuff about how he actually sucks and the bone spurs are a red herring, or some such thing. Sadly, I’m sure we’ll see some of that.

          • I actually love the idea of signing him on the cheap, maybe building in some incentive offers wih good pay that only trigger of he has a good year, potentially locking him up for a few years.

  10. on another note i went to the last game of the year and Johnson jerseys were full price

    Romero, Santos (?) Bonafacio and Escobar Jerseys were 30 fucking dollars.

    • @DC.

      +1. Yes, I saw the Romero jerseys on sale. Very sad. He’s still pretty young & could make a comeback.

      I would be OK with AA bringing back Johnson for 2014. Could AA do 1 year +plus option?

      Hopefully, Johnson gets healthy again.

    • I would buy a Santos jersey. Wow.

  11. What’s “cheapish” though?…, is the big question…

  12. do it. I was already in favour of qualfying him and this actually makes me more confident it is a good risk.

    You “might” be overpaying by a couple of million, but it is only one year and for a guy who “could” be lights out.

    The Miami trade was bit of a gamble. The Dickey trade was a bigger gamble. This pales in comparison to both.

    Do it AA!!

    • A one year contract is rarely a poor risk, even at $14 million. It is long contracts that are the killers.

  13. Last summer (July maybe?) you posted a Keith Law column where someone asked about Johnson and KLaw said “he’s got to be hurt, someone just isn’t owning up to it.” Bone spurs can be nasty. Remember Frank Thomas had one the size of a golf ball taken off his ankle.

    • I think it seems very plausible. He was great in the spring, coming off a lot of rest, then started to get what they called/thought was inflammation of the triceps and shut it down. After the mid-season rest, as noted in another comments, he came back and was pretty OK, but then started to hurt and was shut down again. I’m hopeful, but as others have noted, how much is the big question.

  14. At $5m I’d have a contract ready and take my chances.

    At $8m, I’d scratch my chin, go hmmm,
    and then have a contract ready and take my chances.

    At $1 more than $8m, I’d start humming,
    “Sooo long, its been nice to know you….”

    • For me it would all depend on how much of the budget it takes up, rather than any concrete number.

  15. Here’s the thing – is a one year deal, maybe with incentives/options/whatever built in, a bigger risk than for any other pitchers available in free agency? Johnson at least has something to prove in Toronto, none of the FAs do (not that that means much)

  16. I floated three years, 24 Million with a team option at 10 and someone said it couldn’t happen because, and I quote “he and his agent have human brains.”

    I still think it’s a fair deal for both sides.

    • I suspect they meant the Jays. Why would you commit that much to him??? Surely it won’t take that much.

      • That does sound like a lot… I’d think you try something like
        10 mil for 1 year with a team option, or two (cause we no AA don’t do Player options) for like 14 per after that

      • SPs are super-overvalued right now, and it is getting worse with the new tv money. I think he’ll want at least $10 million a year given his history….

        • That’s why I like my solution… JJ gets 10 mil for next year, which is comparable to what Haren got.
          Then we’ve got a team option (or two) at higher price which, if he returns to form is reasonable for the team, but is also something that the player will likely believe he can perform up to and convince the team to exercise. … and the team can get him at roughly the “arb” price, without worrying about the whole draft pick thing.
          All the while, if he doesn’t perform, he’s gone after just one more year.

          • For me, based on absolutely nothing, it’s somewhere around that $10M mark too.

            But you could do $8M Salary, something like a $15M team option for 2015, with a $2M buyout.

            Or $6M Salary, same option, $4M buyout.

            Ya know, something to guarantee him some cash and leave the Jays some upside.

            It also means, if he comes back, that you put him in the Morrow category of: you don’t want to count on them being top flight pitchers with 30+ starts. So, all else equal, they’ll need mid-rotation guys (hopefully, like Nolaso) to join the roto this off-season for insurance purposes.

            Will be mighty interesting!

    • That may have been me. My thoughts at the time IIRC was that JJ and his agent wouldn’t commit to that long of a deal at such a low rate. instead, they would take the Choo and EJax route and try to up his value on something shorter term.

      Personally, I would love for the Jays to sign him to a 1 year with an option. I don’t think we’ve seen anything close to what he’s capable of to this point.

  17. Only Josh will know why he waited, but I’m guessing every 5 days he thought he could pitch through it..
    You can colour me naive also because I would enjoy seeing him back next year in a Jay uniform, of course that’s with the right contract. Second times the charm for this group.

  18. It certainly adds more intrigue to the off season

    I remember reading a report that, according to a pitch study, the pitchers with the most amount of movement on their breaking balls, in all of baseball were JJ and Santos.
    I had doubts that Santos could return to form, but if he can, maybe JJ will?

    • It’s been pretty brief for Santos so far, but it was definitely encouraging.

      • Can’t remember the site, It mighta been GB and one of the sites Drew monitors.
        Thing is, even with the SSS, Santos has answered the question of ” can he still produce the same movement on his pitches that he did before and made him so successful”.
        It provides encouragement for JJ’s future.

      • @Stoeten.

        I saw Santos pitch in the season finale. He was amazing. Now I know what AA saw in him.

        A healthy Santos in 2014 could make him & Janssen the reincarnation of Henke & Ward

        • Henke and Ward that just brought a huge smile to my face. I’ve been thinking on the same line. We just have to get Janssen glasses and Santos sweating until it’s dripping off the brim of his hat and Bob’s your uncle we have our 1-2 punch.

          • @m2m

            +1.

            Santos & Janssen could be a knockout duo. Solid Bullpen in 2014 with Gibby who knows what to do, could be very helpful in a pennant race

  19. IS THERe a minor enough surgery that he could opt into it to give this year an excuse?

    • An excuse?

      Can you throw even one pitch 90mph? Because he not only pitches harder than that, he does it many times, and with movement and location that an average person couldn’t even dream of.

      Now on top of all that, add bone spurs.

      Yeah I think it’s relevant dude. Fuck.

  20. I think this is great news. It sounds like Johnson would be open to coming back in 2014 and this allows for a contract extension to be negotiated. I’m sure he won’t cost anything close to the $14 mil-ish QO.

  21. If they sign Johnson, he, along with Morrow would be question marks.
    Could be awesome; could be nothing.

    They are counting on Dickey and Buehrle
    Romero is likely gone.

    Happ can start in Buffalo or in long relief and there are depth/replacement
    options in Hutchinson, Rogers, Redmond, Drabek and perhaps some others.

    But what they REALLY NEED, is that 3rd guy they can count on.
    And he needs to be a solid number two or better.

    • stw, agree with you, the issue is they can count on. Morrow and JJ are still significant question marks and appear injury prone regardless of talent. This is just the latest injury and yes, causing me to do a double take on the QO. However, talent is great but I remember a guy on one of my youth teams who could literally crush a ball…lots of power, lots of talent, but could never stay healthy enough and/or make contact enough to help the team. I hope Morrow and JJ recover and pitch well. It might happen, pitching is always a fragile thing and you can never have enough but based on the history with both Morrow and JJ, I would wish them luck but move in a different direction in both cases.

  22. I don’t mind paying $14 mil or even more next year for JJ if we can get at least 1 or 2 option years on the end.

    He’s a good risk to take because we have guys like Esmil Rogers and Todd Redmon who could take over if he falls apart again.

    But if he’s healthy we could have great value for 2-3 years.

    Seems worth it to me.

  23. I’d like to see a deal more like lind’s in place for Johnson, club option after club option after club option, with increasing dollar value so as long as he keeps pitching well, he’ll be paid appropriately. If they dont sign him and have to make trades, i think we’ve seen the end of CJ and maybe delebar or loup

    • Why would he want to sign that, though? I’d think he’d want a straight one year deal to try and rebuild his value and hit FA again.

      • I think he’d do it if the number was fair, and the jays would be happy to pay top dollar to a guy who was pitching like he deserved it. I’m talking like one year ten million, option for the next year scaling up 3 mil annually, something along those lines

        • Again, why would Johnson do that?

          If he pitches well enough to have the Jays pick up the option, he’d likely get more than that amount on the open market. If he pitches poorly, the Jays decline the option and he gets none of the money (save a buyout, perhaps).

          Options are great for guys in arb who are looking to guarantee themselves Major League $$ and term. This doesn’t exist for Johnson, IMO.

    • I don’t think your going to get a starting pitcher for CJ or Delabar or loup. Trading all 3 for one doesn’t make sense as then basically the back end of your bullpen is entirely gone.

      If they don’t resign him, you can still use Rogers or Happ. Or even sign Tanaka

    • Lind signed his contract when the club still had him under control for a couple more years. JJ could sign anywhere, being a free agent, so he isn’t going to let a team dictate whether he stays or goes without signing a guareenteed long term contract. Or he’ll sign a 1 or 2 year contract to rebuild his value.

  24. How about a Melky type deal? 2 years 18 million? 20?

  25. I’d do it, at the right price, for sure.

    What’s the right price? Something for taller foreheads than me to figure out. The talent is there, that is undeniable. They really only “need” him for one year anyway, if you assume/hope that younger options can start building innings and experience to take his spot in ’15.

  26. I agree we pretty much have to bring JJ back for at least 1 more year now. Sweet. It is weird that elbow surgery for a pitcher can be considered good news. This could help our rotation a lot next year….

  27. Wow you’re an animal in the off-season! And nothing mailed in about this one either.

    I’d love to see AA and Josh get another crack at this.

    But IMO we’d still have to land one other healthy, good upside arm. Redmond/Happ/Drabek will still most likely get plenty of work one way or the other.

  28. So I actually am a doctor, and I’m not sure what to make of this TBH. Clearly with no specific knowledge of JJ’s case, but bone spurs are really common. And they don’t bother most people. So what one always has to ask in a case like this, is is the surgery a solution to the problem, or was his season a problem looking for a solution, and one was hail mary’d his way in the form of bone spurs, and they’re giving it a shot to see if it makes a difference.
    Only time will tell. For now I’m neither encouraged nor discouraged.

    • yeah, i guess we should calm down a bit on this and not get overexcited…

    • Yeah but most people can’t throw a single pitch in the 80′s, let alone mid 90′s and with movement.

      It’s nice people can have bone spurs and still type or drive a car or toss a frisbee but come on… Laugh all you want, but Dickey’s success depends on a fingernail. It’s all at the margins for these guys.

      • I completely agree with you. I’m just not sure that this will be dramatic, but I admit to really not knowing. As I said in my first post, I’m not excited or discouraged by this. We’ll see how he throws next year, and I’m sure it won’t be worse.

    • Oh so they don’t bother people who make a living doing things besides hurling baseballs as hard as humanly possible? Shocking.

  29. I’d love to have Johnson back.. Then grab Tanaka too. AA has to know by now that it’s always better to have too much pitching.

    • We had enough pitching and it was shit.

    • I’m so with you on this – Johnson and Tanaka are “just” money investments..

      Add in Howie Kendrick for Janssen plus prospects and a very good defensive catcher (Nick Hundley?) and your biggest holes could well be filled.

  30. can someone who is better with advanced stats than I am give an analysis of Josh Johnson’s 2013 body of work? There has been a lot of highly negative comments about his pitching and I don’t think anyone is happy with his year, but it looks like on the surface he may have had a bit of bad luck. In 2011 he gave up 3.8% HR/FB and had a .239 BABIP. In 2013 it was an insane 18.5% HR/FB (pretty much everything in the air was a HR!) and .356 BABIP. His xFIP for 2013 was almost bang on his career xFIP…. K/9 were actually up almost 1 K/9 over his career. On the negative side His BB/9 was up slightly over his career average and there seems to be a recent upwards trend here.

  31. How about a two for one deal? Sosnick gets paid, the Jays get Johnson and Nolasco.

    I’m all for bringing back Johnson. I’m not keen on what it would take to bring back a frontline starter in trade and the FA market is pretty dubious. What worries me is whether Johnson or Morrow would be able to pitch in October, assuming one or both could make 25+ starts in the regular season and the Jays are in the postseason mix.

    If they’re healthy, they’re the type of guys I would feel good about starting a one-game play-in. Sadly, I don’t quite feel that way about Dickey right now.

  32. I wouldn’t give him more than 8 million a year.

    If he wants to extract a bunch of money from somebody, let it be somebody else (preferably in the National League).

  33. Look at us it’s the first of Oct. a couple of bone spurs later and were back in this for 14. In my giddy mind I’ve already got him for 18-20 games next year. With a few Rums tonight he’s Cy Young. The joys of being a Toronto fan.
    Fawk it AA let’s get er done.

  34. One year deal with a vesting option based on IP? I’m alright with something along these lines. I don’t think Johnson isn’t a bad pitcher. Rather, a good one who happened to have a bad year. It happens.

    Velocity is still a concern, though.

  35. Can’t hurt to roll the dice on him if the price is right. This club has to catch a break sooner or later, right?

  36. Anyone know a good bar in toronto that would be showing the baseball game tonight instead of the leafs game??

    • I’d be amazed if such a place exists. perhaps there are places that will show both but I doubt there are any that will show baseball only and not the Leafs.

      • I’d be ok with that. Any suggestions?

        • If you’re in the west end both Opera Bob’s on Dundas West and Dog and Bear on Queen West have been very baseball friendly and either one would let you know if they’ll play it if you give em a call.

  37. Question, how much stock can we put on his agents comments on liking gibbons and aa’s vision? Normally an agent is all sugar coating but it would be nice to hear that gibbons is well liked by players…

    • not much. the agent has a vested interest in getting JJ a fat contract and the Blue Jays are the only team he can negotiate with at this point so he is playing nice right now.

  38. Why wouldn’t the contract be a combination of escalating salary + option years vesting?

    1 year, $5mn if it’s less than 50innings/higher than 6 ERA
    Goes to $10mn at 100innings/lower than 5
    Goes to $15mn at 150/ <4.5
    Adds a 2nd year at $15mn at 200/playoffs

    You can play with the numbers to match up with the seasons a $10mn and $15mn pitcher had in 2013.

    • The problem with a vesting option for JJ is that it could be seen as almost a punishment for pitching too well. Even if an option vested at 150 innings and a 4.5 ERA, you’d have to imagine he’d believe he’d be looking for a multi-year deal from someone.

      If the Jays get him without using a QO, it would likely be a one year deal with large performance incentives, not options.

  39. At what point, calendar-wise, do they have to either offer him something, or cut him loose?

    • I thought it was within 3 days of the end of the WS but i read this morning that AA has about a month.

  40. I like the idea of getting Johnson back but wow would our pitching staff next year be depending on a lot of good medical news to succeed. Johnson (bouncing back from surgery), Morrow (coming back from injury), Drabek and Hutchinson (returning from having lost seasons to surgery), McGowan and Santos (major recent medical issues)…..

  41. Something like 10 mil plus incentives ought to be enough to get it done if you believe he’s going to stay healthy next year. Big if, but worth the risk considering it’s only 1 year.

  42. I think he should be back. For fuck’s sake, we’ve wasted one year, why not another with the apparently-talented pitcher we thought we were getting. At worst it will be a horror show but I don’t think it will be at worst. Apart from anything else, Johnson has pitched for a year against the AL East. And it was this last year. I doubt Boston will change that much after this season. Neither will the Rays. I don’t see the Orioles re-tooling. NY will but that’s 1 team out of 4. These are tough teams but he has some experience against them now on the field where it counts. If they tighten up the d I think he could be OK.

  43. Fuck it, give him a QO.

    Sure the relative crunch to the overall budget is an issue, but it’s a one year deal, “there are no bad one year deals”.

    This could be a very good starting pitcher. GOOD STARTING PITCHERS ARE DIFFICULT TO AQUIRE.

    Klaw said he looked hurt, his on and off DL stints showed that he was hurt, Dr. Andrews confirmed that he was the best kind of hurt (no ligament damage that is).

    This has the potential to be 2013 John Lackey with waaaaay less total cost and risk.

  44. I would sign him for one year.

  45. We could probbly get it done for 1 year at 8m. I think one of the keys to get Johnson sign would be to guarantee him that there would be no QO. One year of rebuilding his value and he could go on the open market without a draft pick tied to him. I think it would be good for Johnson and the Jays.

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