Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_1_sql_3a3fa9e5f78bd7d22519b28d896293f8' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_15_object_69be6f0f58698dc437fd681ecbdd920c' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 The Daily Duce: Thursday, October 24th | Drunk Jays Fans | Blogs | theScore.com

dailyduce1

You mean I’m not a billionaire anymore? How does this impact Train Island?!

Mark Simon of ESPN New York figures that Jose Bautista is precisely the kind of player the Mets would think long and hard about meeting the Jays price on this winter in a trade. For the piece he asked Jim Bowden what he thought the potential cost would be, and the answer was Jon Niese and non-prospect Cesar Puello. Yeah, that’s real sellable for the Jays. Tell you what, though, not to be one of those Jays fans, but if the Mets would do Bautista and Arencibia for d’Arnaud and Syndergaard, maybe we can talk.

Speaking of former prospects… Aaron Sanchez! HEYO! I kid, of course… unless being angry about reports on the internet is going to make Sanchez pitch the way that he did  last night in the Arizona Fall League, as Aaron Sanchez started for Salt River, throwing four no-hit innings, with four strikeouts and a walk– and according to those on Twitter watching the radar gun or MLB Gameday, he was sitting consistently at 95-96, hit as high as 99, and was throwing strikes. Nails much? Marcus Stroman, on the other hand, hit a little bit of a speed bump, taking the loss while giving up three runs on two hits and three walks in an inning-and-two-thirds.

Baseball Prospectus has a tidbit on Sanchez’s start– with video!– and notes none of the issues that Keith Law had with the potential ace’s mechanics last week. “He’s still learning how to put it all together,” Jeff Moore writes, “but when it’s all there, he dominates like this.”

Speaking of Stroman, Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com talks to him about working out of the bullpen in Arizona, which is really just a way to monitor his innings, as the Jays continue to do their best to let him succeed as a starter before considering actually turning him into a knockout relief pitcher.

Elsewhere still in the desert, MiLB.com looks at Jays relief prospect John Stilson’s road to the AFL. On him I’m hearing impressive stuff, hard thrower, but it sounds like he’s been getting hit a little hard. He’s also always been a bit of an injury concern– at least, as far as I’m aware.

In case you missed it, I worked a few noteworthy links into yesterday afternoon’s post about Josh Johnson, passing along word from ESPN New York that the Yankees, despite rumours to the contrary, may be gearing up to spend this winter, plus a link to the interesting Bloomberg infographic that ranked the Jays the 12th most valuable franchise in baseball (with the fifth-biggest stake in their own regional sports network), and a tweet from John Lott giving us an early look at his and Shi Davidi’s book on the Jays’ hopelessly lost 2013 season. Because… y’know… why let all that good work go to waste, right?

Hey, did you hear that yesterday was an anniversary of some sort? Sportsnet provides a nifty oral history of Joe Carter’s World Series winning home run, which is worth it if only for an appearance from our friend and occasional podcast cohort Darren Kritzer– Chief!

Elsewhere at Sportsnet, Shi wonders why John Farrell is having success with Boston that he didn’t in Toronto. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that it’s something to do with the players.

At his North of the Border blog, Gregor Chisholm shares his memories of that night 20 years ago, and also a transcript of his interview with Joe Carter. Great stuff.

At Sportsnet, Shi Davidi notes that Jose Bautista has been cleared to resume working out, having recovered from the hip injury that ended his season. Then, at the very bottom, Davidi notes the possibility of Tim Raines becoming the Jays’ new first base coach (!!!).

Carlos Delgado’s Instagram photos of his wacky socks? Carlos Delgado’s Instagram photos of his wacky socks.

MLBTR takes a stab at projecting free agent starters’ salaries, and comes out figuring on Josh Johnson being in the $8-million. Admirable, but I’m thinking some of the numbers are still a bit low, even if Scott Feldman at 2/17 is kinda insane as it is. (I’d still hit it, though.)

At Bluebird Banter, Nick Ashbourne contrasts the two-strike approach of Munenori Kawasaki and the non-existent two-strike approach of J.P. Arencibia. Yowza.

Jays Journal wonders why more people aren’t talking about the Jays going after Omar Infante– and furthermore, why they’re not looking at errors instead of advanced fielding metrics, and not ignoring his two years in the OBP wilderness. Not the worst idea, though.

For those of you with ESPN Insider, Keith Law and Chris Crawford give an early look at prospects for the 2014 draft. Hard to think much about who the Jays might be in for just yet, but worth noting that they have Young Beedah at 18– which is lower than I’ve seen him elsewhere.

The Onion breaks down the World Series, and because it’s The Onion, it’s pretty awesome.

At FanGraphs, Matt Klaassen writes about the rumours that the Royals could deal Billy Butler and what that could mean or how it might work. Reunite him with Kevin Seitzer already! Or… actually we could probably use some pitching, but whatever!

Lastly, also at FanGraphs, Jeff Sullivan looks at the wildest five swings of 2013– or… that is, the swings on the five pitches farthest from the centre of the plate– and the Jays are owners of two of them! Colby Rasmus swung at a ball farther away from the plate than anybody this year, but it’s third-place man Rajai Davis who really shines, swinging at a pitch that was a little closer than Colby’s, but that still has Sullivan calling it “probably the worst swing of the 2013 regular season, and maybe of the last few regular seasons.”

Comments (50)

  1. That’s our Rajai.

    The leagues #1 guess hitter

  2. JPA and Bautista, straight-up – for TDA and Syndergaard?
    I’d probably seriously think on it…but sometimes, I still feel that giving up a combined 50 home runs and 150+ RBI should get you more than a couple of guys, who combined, haven’t played one complete season in MLB.
    Yes, I realized that if we got ANYTHING in return for JPA, after such an auspicious season – we should run away, madly giggling like schoolboys – but, jeez…

    • Your joking right?

    • Yeah they haven’t played MLB much. But they also don’t cost you anything. So it’s like getting TdA and Hoah AND a premiere pitcher because you’ll have 20M to go get a pitcher with.

      Though I have a hard time seeing this happen.

  3. Is the Seitzer thing official yet?

  4. A few Jays-related notes in the Klaw chat: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49244/mlb-insider-keith-law

    Most relevant, though, is that it’s his opinion that the Linecum deal won’t impact the market that much, and other GMs will just look at the deal a stupid overpay.

  5. Yeah but at least Rajai could run fast and steal bases. He wasn’t a bad 4th outfielder either. I can think of way worse than him on our team right now…

  6. Maybe Niese and a decent prospect for Bautista isn’t crazy? Basing it on the cost to acquire pitching. I’m not sure his contract status but should still be under control for a few years?

    Not saying I’d do it, but upgrade the second piece a bit, and it’s probably not too far off.

    • If you read the article Bowden suggests Neise and TWO prospects with one of them being Puello. The author speculates that the either prospect would need to be one of the Met’s high end prospects.

  7. i’m pretty sure i’ve been blocked from commenting on here, but on the chance i haven’t, i was looking for advice. I want to plan a trip to go see the jays over a weekend series somewhere hot. Seems like the best bet is oakland but i’m worried it’s a super sketchy area, has anyone ever been the Colosseum?

    • You totally have. But this comment isn’t as dumb as your horseshit about needing to have played the game to have a valid opinion about baseball, so I don’t mind letting it slide. Go elsewhere, though, if you want to pretend Buck Martinez doesn’t demonstrate on a night by night basis that he’s not worth listening to, and that people who question him are, because he played the game, idiots. That shit don’t fly here. We listen to peoples’ words.

    • I was by that part of Oakland about 10-11 years ago, and I remember thinking it was somewhat unsavoury. That being said, you’re just a quick trip across the bay from one of the best cities in America to hang out in, so go but don’t stay in Oakland in my opinion. Berkeley is quite close to Oakland too if I recall correctly, and it’s actually a really cool college town to spend a bit of time in.

      • well it’s either that or tampa or houston….
        i want to watch them play a major league team so houston is out, and I want to see them win so tampa is out….

        • I went to Houston this year. The buffalo chicken nachos are AMAZING

        • Tampa is lousy anyhow. I like Clearwater, but St. Pete’s isn’t my favourite. If be partially incline to go for the ballpark itself. I’d like to go to Houston. I’m dying to go to Pittsburgh, but that’s not a warm-weather destination for you.

      • Go to Oakland only so you can go to San Fran for a game, later in the week (Giants and A’s are never/rarely in town at the same time). Oakland in general is ok to fairly sketchy…go to a day game and take lots of suntan lotion.

        The O.co is the worst, by far, stadium (of 10) that I have been to. It is not a baseball park. If you can, wait several years until they move out of that dump. As a football stadium converted for baseball, it sucks in many ways:

        - seats are farther from fair territory
        - sound system is bad
        - food selection is boring, with no offerings that are unique to the area, other than a $5 churro, which is not worth the money.
        - souvenir selection is also uninspired

        On the bright side, the maintenance of the grass has always been excellent and you may just be lucky enough to see a drunk guy try to punch out four cops at once! I wish I had a link to the video, but this did happen a couple of weeks ago during the Tigers/A’s series. The fans in general seem to be more intense/hostile than others (or we just ‘lucked out’ the day we were there) which means they are awesome (right field bleachers) or just downright douchey.

  8. Bautista for a package that included either Syndergarrd or TD would be hilarious and would almost certainly get AA fired.

    Nothing says incompetence like trading back for a player :)

    it will never happen though so no need to worry

  9. Why trade Bautista for players who won’t help you this year? Niese alone doesn’t replace Bautista’s production, so unless you’re packing it in, you don’t do that trade. Sure, if you can trade him for a major league ready prospect like Profar you think about it, but the Rangers don’d do that trade.

    • Bautista’s production is overrated. The Jays could make the playoffs without his offensive if their pitching were better. Scoring runs ain’t the Jays problem.

      • It’s not their problem as long as Bautista is around. Once he goes, though, this silly kind of thinking gets exposed for the silliness that it is.

  10. Sox fans on Twitter are trying to convince me that it’s John Farrell that made the difference. I say, “No, health and talent of the players led to them playing the best in the AL this season.” And they say, “No, no, it’s Farrell.”

    What the hell is that?

    • I diagnose it as a symptom of the people you’re talking to.

      • No I think they’re right. That Shi Davidi article noted above made me think about the situation. They liked Farrell and he liked them and everyone felt comfortable with everyone else. The players played well and there was no drama. Whereas the year before with Valentine it was all-drama all the time. The Jays weren’t comfortable with Farrell and he wasn’t comfortable with the Jays so it didn’t work out. Plus he really really didn’t want to be here as soon as Francona was fired. I think he’s a blowhard and an asshole and he never seemed to emotionally commit to the team he was managing. But for the BoSox he’s wonderful. That’s what they wanted to see. So they saw it.

        Seems to me that the Farrell equivalent for the Jays is Butterfield. I wonder if the front office is thinking along those lines.

        • The belief in this “Farrell as saviour” narrative at the expense of giving credit to the players is what’s offensive to me.

          John Farrell had a (likely) less talented team with lot’s of injuries in 2012, but had a more talented team with not nearly as many injuries in 2013. It’s not mysterious why he was more successful in Boston.

          Boston had a lot of injuries in 2012. That’s why they finished last. But injuries don’t make sexy narratives in the press.

          • Maybe its not so much Farrell being a savior as it is Valentine being really, really shitty.

            • Or Lester being bad, Lackey and Bucchholz and Ellsbury and Ortiz being hurt, and Beckett, Gonzalez, and Crawford being bad or hurt or OK and then traded.

          • I agree. It’s the players that got them this far. But the Boston media have spent significant time denigrating Valentine and turning Farrell into a hero. Myself I think the players *were* more relaxed when he came back. They knew him well. He had a good rep there. He didn’t get them to the Series but he didn’t hurt them any. Here it was a completely different story and I do think he hurt this team.

        • Believing that stuff means pretending that the clubhouse stuff has far more impact than anyone who isn’t ridiculous would actually believe. It’s not nothing, but it’s absurd to think that it isn’t pretty marginal.

    • They’re not familiar with critical thinking and just swallow whatever lazy narrative they’re fed whole?

  11. how does dealing Bautista + Arencibia for d’Arnauld + Syndergaard help us for next year? seems like we are worse off at the major league level…

    • Mope

    • Holy shit, and here I proposed it as a super serious fix for everything that was ailing the Jays. WHAT WAS I THINKING??!???

      • i get that it wasn’t a serious suggestion, but…isn’t the ‘window’ to compete at least in large part based on how much longer bautista is under contract for? if you remove him from the equation, yes, you have to replace (or try to) what he brings, but doesn’t it expand the window to truly compete? i mean, he’s not the only part of puzzle, right?

        this is one of those moves that neither side would make, the mets because they don’t want to give up TdA or noah based on where they are for a guy like bautista who, while great, isn’t going to turn them around by himself (same reason they dealt dickey), and the jays don’t want to give up bautista for the same reason (the young guys likely won’t truly help for another season or so)…but doesn’t that mean that a deal such as this isn’t actually totally absurd?

        • I don’t really like viewing things through the prism of the “window,” because that’s just a shorthand for how long many of the core guys’ contracts run (at present), but… yeah, it’s not totally absurd. The Mets still seem to have financial issues and can only really look to the trade market, and a guy on a good contract, if they’re aiming for a big bat. If the Jays could sign someone to make up some of the production and get a package like this for Bautista, why not? Hypothetically, at least. In reality I think it’s more difficult to pull off– sign the replacement first and teams know you’re going to have to move Jose, but if you trade Jose first, then you’re over a barrel to get something done on the market.

          Also, no way it actually would really happen. But yeah.

  12. Zaun 101 tonight was fascinating. No, seriously, it was. Zaun showed all the different substances that pitchers use to doctor the ball. Watch it if you can…

    • it was pretty neat, it was a rare occurrence of zaun not being completely eye-gougingly insufferable.

      • We may not have to put up with his Zaun Cherry act (notwithstanding the awesome display of ball doctoring substance) for much longer. Ol’ Zaunie was in-studio on PTS during the 5 pm hour on Wednesday, and he seemed to indicate that he is looking to get into coaching/managing in the baseball ranks. Interesting and hilarious at the same time.

  13. haha that Onion article owns. Fuck the World Series.

  14. Small note on the Sanchez video on BP. It’s actually from the less than stellar start from Oct. 17.

  15. Since when did Jon Niese get confused with David Price? I mean I get why a controllable league average left handed starter is valuable, but fuck me he’s still a league average starter (if that).

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