Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_1_sql_95ee78392381ffbfe4b66e3133ee6205' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_object_9ee1addf54ad00867451ed4d367f2c40' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Blair: A “Chance” Buehrle Could Move | Drunk Jays Fans | Blogs | theScore.com

buehrlethrows

There are some pretty big qualifiers in a pretty small passage in the latest from Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail, as he looks at the developing off-season market in the wake of the Fielder-Kinsler bloickbuster, but this is still pretty interesting:

Every team needs starting pitching, but few teams can point to that commodity as 90 per cent of the reason they finished in last place – except for the Blue Jays. In Anthopoulos’s perfect world, he’d be able to trade for a front of the rotation starter, sign another through free agency, and go into spring training with R.A. Dickey and Mark Buerhle while keeping his fingers crossed that Brandon Morrow comes back healthy. There remains a chance, industry sources believe, that Buehrle might be moved if the pitching market really heats up although that would seem to be dependent on Anthopoulos making hay in the free agency.

Hello!

Yes, those are some pretty gigantic ifs, and I’m not sure how much sense it would make for the Jays to fix their starting pitching issues, only to immediately go and create another large, stunningly-dependable hole in the rotation. But there are certainly elements of the idea that could make sense.

Uh… I think.

Moving Buehrle’s money (he’s owed $18-million this year and $19-million next) would return to Alex Anthopoulos some financial flexibility lost by his “making hay” on the free agent market, and might actually net him something decent in return– especially if he’s willing to kick in some extra dollars.

Or maybe even if not! In total the remainder of Buehrle’s deal is only $2-million richer than the one Tim Lincecum signed with the Giants in October, and Buehrle actually has a bunch more value– especially if you go by the Baseball Reference version of WAR (which you may want to in his case, since he has fairly routinely had his ERA outperform his FIP over the course of his career). By rWAR Buehrle has been worth +5.6 wins over the last two seasons, while Lincecum has been worth -2.3. Even by the FanGraphs version of the metric Buehrle (+4.4) has been nearly two full wins better than Timmy (+2.5) over that span.

Of course, the Lincecum contract is a clear overpay, and not a particularly good benchmark. But the market could catch up to it, in which case Buehrle would start looking pretty good to clubs not willing to make the kinds of commitments it will take to land Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jimenez, or Ervin Santana– none of whom, it should be noted, produced more total rWAR or fWAR than Buehrle over the last two seasons.

Holy shit!

Hang on, that can’t be right, can it?

Buehrle was +5.6 over two years by Baseball Reference, and +4.4 by FanGraphs. Garza was +2.6 and +3.3. Santana was +1.5 and +2.0. And Ubaldo was +2.1 and +3.3.

Motherfucker! Should I have realized that before now???

Anyway, so… yeah. Buehrle would definitely have value. It’s just, by the looks of it he has a shit-tonne of value to the Jays, given the alternatives. I mean, I wouldn’t bet on him continuing to be better than those guys, and clearly the arbitrary endpoints I’ve selected make him look a bit better and the others look worse. It’s… I… uh… man. Kinda lost my train of thought here.

I guess… I don’t know. Maybe Alex Anthopoulos secretly thinks that he can go a lot farther on some of his young arms than he’s leading on, but I doubt it. It would be an interesting, risky route to take, and would present a whole different vision of the off-season than the one we’ve been led to believe so far. This year’s versions of the Cardinals, A’s, and Rays definitely found a lot of success taking that route. And shit, if Alex has more job security than we think, or hadn’t pursued the exact opposite strategy last year, or didn’t seem to need to maintain whatever scraps of rotation dependability he can, rather than lose it, uh… maybe?

But I don’t really see how that would actually make any sense at all, to be honest. Signing a free agent to help the rotation, then flipping Buehrle for (presumably) a bit of youth, or to fill a positional need, and then going with young arms at the back of the rotation anyway? I mean, if you’re going to do that, why not just keep the guy with the shorter, cheaper commitment who has provided more value in the last two years than whichever of the top guys you’re looking at anyway, right? And just use that free agent money to fix your positional needs that way. Right???

Ah, who knows? I sure as hell don’t!

So… there’s that.

Comments (262)

  1. Better the devil you know…

  2. Buehrle to LAA as part of deal to get Iannetta and Kendrick?

  3. I get the sense Blair has as much insight into the Jays as Eskin does into the Phillies. Has he ever been out front in a story involving AA’s front office?

    • I think so. He was the one who kept hammering home that the Jays wanted Anibal Sanchez last offseason. They didn’t end up getting him, obviously, but sources like Davidi/Lott’s book make that very obvious.

      I remember Blair kept saying how much Anthopoulos loved Jose Reyes a few years ago when he was a free agent as well.

  4. wow – blew my mind. well done, stoeten

  5. It would all depend on whether or not AA feels that he will get better value in an free agent then he will in the rest of beurhles deal.

    If his deal wasn’t so backloaded I would strongly oppose this. But those wonderful marlins really butchered this contract ( in their favour turns out)

    Wouldn’t the angels like buerhle?

    • Sorry to add to that. It would have to be more then a salary dump. If you’re just dumping salary it makes no sense, you have to trade him for something worth while.

  6. Blair is a piece of shit.

  7. I dunno…Buehrle’s just about the closest thing to a sure thing that you can get. He’s not spectacular by any means, but those 200+ innings he’s all but guaranteed to give you are gonna be hard to fill. I guess it’s the same with Bautista…unless you can get something stupid good back, I don’t see the sense in filling holes by creating huge, gaping new ones.

    • Yeah, that’s the thing with Buehrle. He probably won’t be a super pitcher any more by any means but if the jays had a rotation of 5 Buehrles last year they’d have been in contention. (At least 2nd half Buehrle)

  8. Jeez my first instinct is “FUCK NO”

  9. “And shit, if Alex has more job security than we think”

    This is a very interesting question.. and the imminent baseball decisions related to this question certainly shape the short and long-term future of the club. The more I think about it, why would this be AA and Beaston’s “last chance”? I know things went terribly on the field last year, but in terms of talent, that was the first time this management team has had a chance to win. As far as I am concerned, they have made all the right roster moves, have convinced Rogers to pony up, have increased ticket sales, and successfully re-branded the organization.

    As far as I’m concerned… in AA we trust (and Beaston too, I guess)

    • I’ve been reading Davidi/Lott’s book (as I mentioned in a reply above) and had the same thought.

      We’ve all been assuming this could be AA’s last chance, at least to build a competitive team, and if the team had similar results to last season, he’d be shown the door because that’s often how things work in sports.

      But the book reinforced two things to me. 1) Beeston is pretty ingrained in the Blue Jays. I didn’t know that he was working out of the Blue Jays offices even when he worked for MLB rather than the team. 2) Not as surprising, but Beeston and Anthopoulos have a pretty special relationship.

      It left with me the conclusion that Beeston would never be relieved of his job – it’s his until he retires – and that Anthopoulos’ job was safe under Beeston.

      If Beeston retires, and his contract does expire after this season, I believe, the landscape certainly changes. But knowing Beeston’s plans are probably the key to understanding AA’s job security.

      • Agreed it’s likely Beestons job till he retires. Only thing that could put a wrinkle in that is the low but non-zero chance he’s commissioner a year from now.

    • Well said.
      The GM’s job is to put the team in a position to win.
      By all accounts,before the 2013 season began, that goal came to fruition.
      The players were either injured or failed to perform.
      People forget that AA ( with Beeston’s help, IMHO) actually forced MLB to change the rules of the game.Even with the new CBA, he gamed the system and came within $400 of going over the max. His trading of Wells was listed as one of the top moves of the year by SI.Amassing draft picks allowed for those trades to happen.
      AA isn’t perfect. but he ain’t the problem.

      • I agree. I also don’t believe this organization is short-sighted enough to let go of a very good GM to in order to appease the fans or “mix things up”. If this were the case, Gibby would already be gone by now.

      • I don’t know all the details, but it seems like since Beeston and AA took over, there has been a lot more interest in the team. Attendance is up, assuming merch sales and TV ratings are up as well.

      • Drabek, Happ, Stroman,Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Hutchison, Redmond, Rogers, Nolin, McGuire (ha!), Romero (ha! Ha!). We sign a Jimenez and/or a Garza and Gibby has to be able to piece together a borderline playoff rotation. There might not be an ace or a two, but that rotation screams inning eaters, enough that our offence (Jesus Christ, do it Lawrie) should be able to carry us.

        • Up until Aug McGuire was scuffling between 5.03 and 5.80 ERA.
          In Aug he posted a 2.95 over 6 starts with a BAA of .150 and he had 35 Ks.
          Here’s hoping whatever his problems were are over with. It looks like
          the Jays may have made the right decision putting him on the 40 man.

  10. I really hope not. Love watching the guy pitch.

  11. Hm, it’s hard to imagine how it would make sense.

    Buerhle is paid a lot, but he’s the closest to a lock you can get for 200 Innings and around a 4 ERA.

    With the Jays needing (you would think) at least one more starter and possibly two, it’s hard to imagine making that hole even deeper.

    I guess if they went on a spending spree and felt they could better allocate the 18 million?

  12. Yeah I only really see this making sense if the Jays were going to rebuild which obviously isn’t the case.

  13. I’d think that if Buehrle were to be moved, it would be to a club that thought it could win right now and could afford some or all of his contract.

  14. I just dont see it. For all the reasons you stated above.

  15. Jays need reliable pitching
    Why trade one you have?

    • To patch another hole elsewhere?

      I mean I get that it’s stretch but they aren’t getting a 2b in free agency and they aren’t getting a good catcher outside of McCann who will be pricey.

      If you can move buerhle and let’s just say a decent prospect and Janssen for Kendrick and ianetta you patch 2 positions up. Granted by opening the hole in your rotation up further.

      The key to all this is what AA feels he can do with the rotation. Moving him and standing pat obviously makes no sense

      • The reason the Jays sucked last year was the rotation. Sure there were black holes at C, 2B and LF … but strong starting pitching can overcome that. Plus you’ve got Reyes, Bautista, EE, and Rasmus carrying a lot of the load.

        Taking AWAY from starting pitching to fill out the lineup would be insane.

        • Starting pitching is only as good as your defense. No pitcher is going to go out and pitch 20 no-hitters a season, and if they think they have to do that because the defense behind them is swiss cheese, then the pitching will suffer.

          Unless the pitcher is giving up everything as home runs the defense is the most important thing on the field.

  16. I want so desperately for Anthopoulos to have success. Home grown boy and I love the way he does business (for the most part). That said, the track record of the team developing talent, and of the injuries has been so abysmal, that if the team doesn’t make the playoffs this year, I’d have to be one of the first people asking for a new GM.

    • Because the injuries and the previous drafts are his fault right?

      I guess people are shortsided, but I don’t think people remember how long certain gm’s had before they brought their team to a point of constant contention.

      Daniels, Friedman to name a couple took a long a while to achieve any sort of sustained success. Baseball isn’t like most sports where u can put ‘your’ people in place and have players you wanted in place in a year or two. It takes a while .

      I just don’t get how people could turn on AA after praising him just last offseason. The only thing that’s changed since then is the PLAYERS under performed. How could you hold him to that?

      • I don’t think it’s unreasonable to link the injuries to something systemic. This is two or three years in a row where the starting pitching has just disappeared.
        As for the minor league development, I stand by it. When was the last time the Jays developed an all star? Isn’t it kinda funny that the major knock on Noah Syndergaard was that he couldn’t develop his third pitch in the Jays system, and then he gets traded and suddenly he is A Top Pitching Prospect with a decent curveball? Or Aaron Sanchez suddenly developing mechanical flaws in Double-A? Travis Snider?
        Again, I love the moves that Anthopoulos makes, and he goes about it all in what appears to be a smart way. But his legacy at this point is nothing more than chronic, systemic underperformance from virtually everybody he touches (with two obvious exceptions).

        • Not gonna say a thing about the developmental problems or injury proneness.
          The fact is they’re deficient in both those categories and towards that end there was some word from Gregor Chisholm last week they were thinking about fixing them. It’s way past the time but that’s good.

          I think that AA getting the can at any point in this upcoming season would be a travesty especially since his and Beeston’s philosophy was (and is) to rebuild with a specific formula (aquiring young controllable players and avoiding the FA market), and that takes time. It’s a bit ironic that we’re even talking about this when JP (the guy who was all about FAs and had no faith in the draft) got 8 years.

    • I get the frustration. However, AA has Reyes under contract, options on Bautista, EE, Santos, & Lind thru ’16. I believe Lawrie will be just entering his option years at that point. Unless things go COMPLETELY off the rails, I think he deserves the chance to see it though to that point with this group. There is a lot to be said for ownership and management stability.

      • Well said. Agree completely.

      • “Daniels, Friedman to name a couple took a long a while to achieve any sort of sustained success.”

        Making up facts as you go along?

        Friedman became GM in 2006, his team won a pennant two years later…

      • Look if Reyes, Encarnacion, Bautista and Lawrie are the core, and the team is still 16 games under .500 after this season, then this core isn’t good enough.
        Personally I’d argue that if this team doesn’t make the playoffs, then it’s not good enough.

        • As a non-Jays fan, as you must be to say such complete bullshit, might I point out that are starting pitching would have made the Murderer’s Row a sub-.500 team. THE PROBLEM IN 2013 WAS NOT THE HITTING.

          • ‘our’. Jesus.

            • So to me, that means you need “a different core”. A core that includes pitchers, etc. I’d love to know how the Jays plan on going about acquiring an elite pitcher. Not Samardzija, not Ubaldo, not Ervin Santana. I’m talking about somebody that can give us a *chance* against Jon Lester, Max Scherzer, Yu Darvish, etc.
              Maybe it’s Sanchez. But Sanchez won’t be an ace while this core is intact and in its prime.

  17. You got it exactly – Buehrle is right in our time frame. We either win with Buehrle or are dealing him away in his last year for a Double AA kid, as we deal away Reyes and Bautista at the same time.

    This sick part of me can’t wait until we are at that point – having won a World Series or two first of course.

    • @sons

      +1.

      Buerhle is part of the plan. If by the end of 2014 we aren’t playing meaningful games, then he can be traded., perhaps as soon as July 2014

  18. Fuck you guys. I try my best and that’s all that matters. So what if nothing I say comes true? So what if I blow smoke on my show and try to be like McCown? Fuck you guys. You’re not the only ones with feelings. Fuck you all. Feeling hurting assholes.

    • Then don’t initiate bullshit rumors.
      If you do,then don’t be surprised when DJF calls you on it.

      PS. “feeling hurting assholes” just doesn’t sound right.
      You should get another hobby.

  19. As is mentioned throughout, if the ultimate goal is to have 5 guys give you 1000 above average innings (I realize it’s not going to happen, but in theory, that’s presumably the goal of your rotation in the regular season), it’s certainly difficult to see the benefit of deleting a player that virtually guarantees you can change that goal to 4 guys / 800 innings.

    Buerhle’s exactly the type of player the Jays need on a contract that Rogers can pay and shouldn’t restrict them from doing anything.

  20. If there is ant chance to get out of that contract you have to take it, no. 18 mil should get you 2 shit ballers not 1

  21. The problem though is that sometimes it’s hard to figure out when Blair is being a troll and when he’s not.

  22. I don’t see why the Jays would move Buehrle. What is interesting though is if this season goes down the tubes as last season did, we have a lot of good pieces, with years of control, on decent contracts that would speed up a rebuild.

  23. I’ve said through all of last year that Mark is the most under-rated player on the team. It’d be near impossible to replace his innings at his price in this market.
    Nothing’s impossible, but I’d be stunned if he was moved.

  24. vargas to the royals
    is this one of the dominoes that will cause a trade?

    • Hell yes. Goodbye J.A. Happ!!! Hello Howie Kendrick…

    • The market for slightly above replacement level shitballers is about to explode.

      Seriously though… Maybe Happ does have a bit of value. He’s getting $3 mill less than Vargas and I would think they’re kind of comparable.

  25. So, as per my comment in the previous post, is my (mostly spitballin’) suggestion of signing Ervin and Ubaldo and trading Beuhrle still ‘unreasonably unrealistic’?

    • I was waiting to hear from you!

    • It’s still pretty out there lol

      • Yeah, I know it is ;)
        Like I mentioned in one of my replies, it was more of a thought exercise on my part, trying to look at alternatives to shedding salary by trading Bautista.

        I’m okay with trading Bautista, but I’m also pretty sure I’m going to be disappointed with the return if and when it happens.

  26. Since it’s under the bullshit trade rumors this would be awesome.
    To the Jays from Arizona, Price and Aaron hill
    To the Rangers from the Jays, Arencibia, Buerle, Drabek
    To the Diamondbacks From the Jays, Stroman
    To the Diamondbacks from the Rangers, Jurickson

    Jays sign A.J. Pierzynski
    Only in a perfect world.

    • that’s not so realistic . .I should change my name to Jeremy

    • It wouldn’t be ‘a perfect world’ if they had to trade Stroman.

      • bingo

        • Stroman is only 5’9″, I’m sorry but I have a feeling he’ll be a bust. I like going to little guys and all but no. . . I think they could trade him and no one will remember in a year from now. I don’t remember too many short pitchers having mega success in the MLB. Though there has been some. . . I don’t know, just makes me think. In saying that Sanchez should be untouchable, he’s the one to look for. In my opinion.

          • going for** . .not going to . .

          • Tim Lincecum had a shit career too because of his size….oh…

            • Check the top 50 MLB pitchers, see how many of them are under 6′.
              Lincecum hasn’t been a top 50 pitcher in over two years. And making over 20 Million a year…

          • Not sure he’ll be a bust, but yeah I think his market value likely ever be higher than it is now.

            I think (and hope) he could have a very nice career. But reports indicate his ceiling to be a #2 or 3 starter, more likely a #4 or 5 starter or possibly high end bullpen.

            Guys like this have value, esp. this early in their career, but we fans shouldn’t lose our shit over them being traded. No gnashing of teeth over the loss of a #4 starter.

            Would love to see Stroman in Toronto, though. His great personality will likely make him a fan favourite. Plus Toronto fans love them some underdog stories.

  27. Re: AA’s Job Security

    My uneducated sense is that it is stronger than we think. Furthermore, I think there is a possibility that irrespective of how 2014 goes, we just might see AA move into Paul Beeston’s job and a (presumably) new GM brought in.

    • That would be sooo MLSE. Rogers wouldn’t do that…would they?

      • No

        • @username.

          Last year Stephen Brunt speculated that the plan was to have Beeston retire in a couple of year & have AA take Beeston’s job.

          The plan was based on at least one playoff appearance by the jays.

          That hasn’t happened yet.

  28. To your point I don’t think AA’s job is in jeopardy at all. He totally restocked the system in a quick turnaround and then last year it wasn’t his fault for his players performances. A lot of the fuck ups had pedigree. I think he’s still one of the best GM’s in the game.

    • I think we need to stop with these “it’s not AA’s fault”, it’s “on the players” arguments. Let’s not forget that every player he acquired (except Buehrle) and most of the roster, came with huge question marks. The season was a worst-case scenario, but it wasn’t totally unpredictable either.

      • Yes, it was completely unpredictable.

        • No one thought they’d get that hurt, slump that bad. You have a point though, many of the players he’s brought in have some sort of question marks. The ones that don’t have question marks seem to come to T.O and become a question mark. He has bad luck is all. Next year will be better,

          • There was also a shit tonne load of question marks surrounding the Massholes going into last year; I would argue even a hell of a lot more than for the Jays.

            They got lucky, we didn’t.

            Fucking felching Farrell and his shittards.

  29. Seeing as the second base market is so thin, I wonder if there would be any interest in Izturis

  30. At the 31 July trade deadline there was talk on MLB radio about the Cards maybe trying to acquire a veteran #3 starter to shore up the rotation and not rely on all of their youngsters. The trade that came to mind for me was Buehrle + bullpen guy + prospect + money for Shelby Miller. We all know how that worked out in the postseason, and the situation is now very different, with the Cards trying to sell at least 2 starters. So not sure if there is a fit, but I really wish the Jays could try to acquire Miller or Kelly, or shoot for the moon and get Carlos Martinez….

  31. Davidi writes that the Jays talked Matt Kemp with the Dodgers at the GM Meetings.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/fielder-kinsler-deal-reflects-gms-bold-thinking/

    Probably leads to nothing, but that has some interesting implications on payroll parameters and the three incumbent outfielders.

  32. I think that we should spend time scrolling through any player AA has commented on liking EVER publically and guarantee that his going to acquire him. Colby…got ‘em. Reyes…got’em. You even posted about the rumour that we all thought was crazy

    http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/07/25/sherman-jays-love-jose-reyes-hint-hint/?utm_source=blogs.thescore.com&utm_medium=related-post-plugin&utm_campaign=Sherman%3A+Jays+Love+Jose+Reyes+%28Hint%2C+Hint%29

    Matt Kemp- obviously coming to Toronto:) Maybe not, but I think that’s what AA was getting at, players that aren’t logically on the market. I dunno. I just want Cano, Haren, Ubaldo, a right handed platoon bat and a replacement level catcher. Is that too much to ask?

    Sorry for being drunk.

  33. Interested?
    Better than jpa
    http://dlvr.it/4MdkyL

    • Meh. Another backup

    • He’s only had a little over a full season of at bats at the ML level. (692)
      His career minor league triple slash is an impressive .273/.370/.450
      I’d offer him a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training and tell him that he can compete for a spot.

      He’d be a decent platoon guy.
      His D is subpar but probably is still better then JP’s.
      The only thing JP caught cleanly last year was gonorrhea.

    • Crazy interesting thing about our fellow Canadian here!!! In 126 plate appearances last year, he had more walks(24) than J.P. had in 497 plate appearances(18). Wow. That being said, if, I mean when, they do bring in a MLB catcher, I hope they are better than Kottaras and J.P.

    • It’s too bad he hits L, otherwise I would have thought he could have been a super cheap platoon mate with Thole and allowed for funds to be invested elsewhere (like in Ubaldo).

  34. 11.21.13 @ 08:07 PM EDT Mr. Goodface
    Drabek, Happ, Stroman,Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Hutchison, Redmond, Rogers, Nolin, McGuire (ha!), Romero (ha! Ha!). We sign a Jimenez and/or a Garza and Gibby has to be able to piece together a borderline playoff rotation. There might not be an ace or a two, but that rotation screams inning eaters, enough that our offence (Jesus Christ, do it Lawrie) should be able to carry us.

    REPLY

    • Garza’s gone.

    • He’s only had a little over a full season of at bats at the ML level. (692)
      His career minor league triple slash is an impressive .273/.370/.450
      I’d offer him a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training and tell him that he can compete for a spot.

      He’d be a decent platoon guy.
      His D is subpar but probably is still better then JP’s.
      The only thing JP caught cleanly last year was gonorrhea.

  35. From Shi Davidi’s Sportsnet article

    “With Todd Redmond, Esmil Rogers, Dustin McGowan, Brad Lincoln, Luis Perez and Jeremy Jeffress all out of options, the Blue Jays have a surplus of relievers they’ll need to deal. Certainly Casey Janssen, who’s been a lights-out closer the past two seasons and is due a tidy $4 million in 2014, should be able to fetch a princely return, especially given the need for closers and where free agent relief prices are headed.”

    If I was AA I would keep Casey &Todd Redmond. I like Dustin but he is injury prone.

  36. kottaras just got dfa’s. He has a career .730 ops vs a beastly .666 for JPA so why the fuck is JPA still on this team??? He also has the same type of power as JP

    • Yup

      • @username.

        I would think that JPA should rebound in 2014.

        I wonder if the Jays would consider bringing back John Buck or Jose Molina.? I think the JPA haters club is getting out of control.

        It reminds me of the people who kept bashing Aaron Hill every day in 2010 & 2011 till he was traded. His performance improved in Arizona.

        JPA can’t be this bad in 2014. Can he?

        • Oh, jpa is THAT bad

        • If the Jays brought back John Buck to go withJPA, I am finding a new team to root for.

          That is a bad suggestion.

        • Oakville, J.P. walk 6 less times than Kottaras, a career fringe player, in a quarter of the a bats. There are many things you can teach baseball players, but plate discipline isn’t one of them. The league knows him and his tendencies, and will continue to throw him junk as long as he keeps swinging at it. I hope he corrects his game, but looking at trends from the minors to the majors(minus any time spent in Vegas), and he is what he is.

          • @digital
            Fair point about Jpa and his swing at junk approach.

            There doesn’t seem to be many options for AA for a big upgrade other than McCann

          • Actually plate discipline is one thing you can teach so what the fuck are you talking about?

  37. Davidi reported the jays were looking at Kemp at the GM meetings. Could you imagine..

  38. Holy fucking shit, did Yan Gomes really put up 3.7 WAR in 88 games?

    Damn.

    • And it was mentioned here that one of the experts was asked the over/under 4 WAR on Gomes for next year.
      His opinion was over.

    • Just throwing this out there, but for those lucky few of us who had the pleasure of watching the dregs of the 2012 Blue Jays, Yan Gomes was a fan favorite on a level at least comparable to Munenori Kawasaki last year. Hit a barrage of homeruns in his first few games up, unusual ethnicity (Brazil) etcetera. Not that that should have any bearing at all on any personnel decisions ever, but it’s a pretty good example of the fact that sometimes spending your 25th roster spot on someone who’s a fan favorite doesn’t somehow completely ruin your entire team, despite what some (Stoeten, Drew, etc) might sometimes imply.

      • Look, I’ve been a proponent of keeping Kawasaki around, but much more because I think his skills are actually pretty useful than any of the off-field stuff.

        But comparing him to Gomes, who was really, really, really good in addition to being popular isn’t really apples to apples.

  39. Was it really just a year ago.
    Morrow was expected to break out in 2013. He learned that if he backed off the velocity he’d go deeper into games. Less K’s but more durablity. A guy who pitched the 2nd best game in MLB history.Had matured.
    Buehrle would be Buehrle. 12 straight years of 200 innings. Back to back Gold Gloves.Not a hard thrower but could mix it up enough to keep you in games and let the offense take over.
    Johnson, a hard throwing stud entering his FA.A former NL ERA title holder. Still young.Fans and writers alike speculating whether the Jays should just sign him to 7years and 150 now because he’d be lights out during the year and might be more expensive.With a possible 150+ mil payday on the line, no telling what he could do.
    Dickey the first Knuckler baller to win the CY.The curent NL CY champ.Had elevated the art to the point where he was also the 2012 NL strikeout leader. Think about all the great NL pitchers there are and he was the K champ.Pitched the knuck at different speeds.Had improved 3 years straight and was getting better.
    Romero had a rough end to 2012 but there was a reason .His surgery should have corrected all that ailed him.The opening day starter, the 2012 #1 starter for the Jays, was now considered the 5th man in the rotation.
    2 lefties,2 righties and possibly the best knuckler ball pitcher in history.
    J.A Happ ready in case of injury, An improved bullpen to take over and hold the fort.
    Still having trouble believing it turned out as it did.
    Was it really just a year ago?
    Trade Buehrle?
    Who knows?
    It’s baseball,ya never know.

    • That’s what you get when you build a team around the MLB pitcher version of the bubble boy, a bunch of AAAA pitchers and a manager without any chin at all, let alone a presidential one.

      This team was undone by a lack of leadership which led to an absence of grit and an inability to play the right way. You don’t see Joe Maddon’s #2 starter missing most of a season nursing an injury no one’s even heard of – seriously, a forearm nerve injury? If you’re going to sit out an entire season at least have a real injury. You don’t see Rob Gardenhire’s second baseman missing routine ground balls, probably because you don’t watch Twins games because you’re not a masochist.

      Anyway, what I’m saying is that all of the Jays problems start from the top. There’s nothing going on here that a new manager can’t fix. After all, name me one single thing that changed with the Red Sox beyond getting a real manager? ONE SINGLE THING!

      No, YOU have confirmation bias!

  40. Let’s go Riders!

  41. No rumours at all

  42. Moving Buerhle would be moronic. He’s about the only sure thing in the rotation, period.

  43. I don’t see what’s so great about Buerhle other than his durability. Look at this comparison between him and Vargas from MLBTR, who just signed with the Royals fo 8 million per year:

    Games Started Innings Pitched K/9 BB/9 GB% ERA FIP xFIP SIERA
    Buehrle 128 821.2 5.17 2.03 44.4 3.94 4.04 4.23 4.40
    Vargas 120 761 5.88 2.53 38.2 3.97 4.22 4.46 4.45

    I’d love to see him traded to the Angels–they took Wells already so why not send them Buerhle? I’m not crazy about either Kendrick or Ianetta though. You don’t win championships by pursuing overpaid vets whose best days are behind them. Sure they’re better than Arencibia and Izturis, but who isn’t? Trade Buerhle and sign McCann with the savings or trade for some other catcher who can actually be good. I’d love to see us get Wieters but I doubt the Orioles are dumb enough to trade him to a division rival. A good catcher is like a good goalie in hockey–you can’t really win consistently without one.

    • You are basing it on a 4 year perspective. I want you to think about this re Johnson and Morrow since 2001 Buerhle has thrown 200+ innings every year. EVERY YEAR! Fuck, you could even look at his WHIP IP, ERA<, BB/9, K/9 and he has been consistant since then. think of that and think of Johan Santana, Lincecum, Halladay, think about that for 12 years he has been consistantly a #3 pitcher. You know what you are getting a 200 inning # 3. ue

      When looking at Buerhle and going well he is not worth the contract think about this http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/IP_active.shtml

      Since Pettite's retiring you are getting the league leader on active innings pitched. IP is why you like Buerhle, he doesn't throw hard, but fuck he does not go down.

      • Good points, He is very durable but look at at the guy right underneath him in innings pitched–Tim Hudson. He just signed for about 15 million less than Buerhle will make over the next two years. Also, your stats also show that he has pitched a hell of a lot of innings and he’s been around a long time. I like watching him pitch and all but if its about winning, you want to get the biggest bang for your buck and 18 million per still buys a very good baseball player if you’re a smart shopper. Or maybe I’m just overly optimistic about the young depth the Jays have at sp for next year. The pitching can’t be that bad again can it?

        • The thing is, having a guy like Buerhle on the staff who you know is good for 200 + innings allows you to take risks with the 4 and 5 spot. Seeing the # 1-3 in now order as Dickey, Morrow and Buerhle. if Buerhle and Dickey can give you 200 innings each, and if they can find another pitcher who can throw 200 innings on I think they can be set with Happ/ Stroman, Hutch, Drabek, Rogers, et all. Hudson is cheaper having signed for 8, but he is also 3 years older and missed sometime last year. Thus his 2 years are not equal 2 years to Buerhle. If he did not get injured and was 2 years younger I bet he would be getting 15 mill when Vargas got 8 and he has only pitched a total of 979 innings.

          Depending on the Price, I’d think a 2 (24 million-25) year deal with Arroyo would make sense. Would give the jays 3 players (Morrow, Buerhle, Dickey) who who could go 200 innings morrow and the ability to trade either Arroyo or Buerhle next year for low level prospects when the youth are fully able to help.

  44. I’m struggling to see what’s not to like about George Kottaras. A career .324 OBP (.350 over the last two seasons) with a ridiculous walk rate and decent enough power (his career ISO is .192 to JPA’s .196) gives him around league average offense, which is great for a catcher. He also got his start in the league as Tim Wakefield’s personal catcher, so you would think he could handle Dickey if needed, and that would give them a lot more flexibility. He may hit left, but his splits aren’t that pronounced (career 87 wRC+ against lefties).

    MLBTR had him projected for $1.2 million in arbitration this year. I would take that over giving up prospects for someone like Iannetta ($5 million) or Hanigan (projected $2.3 million).

    • I’m with you, he probably would have had some real playing time by now but he’s been stuck behind Varitek, Salty, Lucroy and Sally Perez.
      His biggest downfall is he’s been stuck behind all-star catchers.

    • Apparently, they dropped him because his salary is too high at 1.2 million. Aren’t you glad you’re not a Royals fan?

  45. Anyone have any unsite as to what the plan would have been for kemp? With melky, rasmus, Bautista and gose ( not to mention Sierra and pillar) it seems we have too many outfielders if anything… And Kemp is expensive as balls, is this a hint that the jays have much more money to spend then theyre leading on ( as even with kemp they’d still have at least 3 more starters to get).

    • Damn phone posts. Sry for spelling etc atrocities

    • You know what would be crazy, trading Bautista for Kemp and Ryu or Grienke. Trading an outfielder for another. I mean we’re talking about crazy trades, that would be one crazy trade.

  46. Anyone have any insight to what the plan would have been for kemp? With melky, rasmus, Bautista and gose ( not to mention Sierra and pillar) it seems we have too many outfielders if anything… And Kemp is expensive as balls, is this a hint that the jays have much more money to spend then they’re leading on ( as even with kemp they’d still have at least 3 more starters to get).

  47. Isn’t lKottaras Canadian?

    Buerhle has to stay at least through July 2014 if they want a shot at competing for a wildcard

  48. Apparently we’re SOL for Free agent Catchers, already….

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-thinning-catcher-market/

    • well that was depressing.
      Luckily i can’t see any reason why the angels would be signing a FA catcher.

  49. 37 million over 2 years for a dinosaur??? See ya later Mark.

  50. $18 million for Beurhle is going to look like a bargain by next spring.

  51. So looks like the Angels are making moves…. Freese for Bourjos… Good thing they didn’t get a pitcher, Jays trade possibilities still exist.

  52. Angels actually have a pretty solid lineup as of now, so they could even take their chances on keeping things as they are and adding pitching in free agency.

    If they want to trade, though, unless they want to deal a shortstop and make a hole, trading Kendrick (and replacing him with Grant Green while they wait for Taylor Lindsey) or Chris Iannetta (and giving the job to Hank Conger) make the most sense.

  53. Jonah @yyzsportsmedia is tweeting that he heard Rogers may tighten the purse strings going forward. Ouch. Pretty connected guy so doubt he’s just trolling

    • All speculation, maybe he heard rogers will tighten the strings if they fail to make the playoffs again.

      • Could be for sure. I just doubt he tweets that unless he has valid info. We shall see.

      • If they do tighten the strings then they are a bunch of nutless, briefcase trolls who should be hung from the CN Tower.

        Give AA one year and then say “hey that didn’t work, time to cut you off like some simp who hasn’t paid his cable bill in 2 months.”

        I really hope this is baseless, fuck I’m in a shitty mood.

        • of course they are a bunch of nutless briefcase trolls. that is EXACTLY what they are. they have no interest in anything other than maximizing share holder profits. in so far as they calculate salary, revenue, and payroll interact…that is what they will determine payroll to be.

          my guess they are realizing that there is a sweet spot for payroll above which adding more does not result in much increase in revenue. now they want to walk it back to the point where there is the most efficient payroll / revenue ratio.

        • I’m really against defacing the CN Tower like that.

    • Nothing concrete there….carry on with the dream people.

    • IF it is true, rogers should just sell the team already to a passionate owner that actually cares and wants to create a winning team and not be solely focused on the bottom line. That is why corporations do not make good owners.

    • It’s a crock of shit,
      Makes absolutely no sense.
      Forget from even a baseball perspective.
      Makes zero sense from a business standpoint.

      • Disagree. To them it might make business sense. Perhaps they feel that giving the team more money is throwing it away because in their minds the team simply will never be able to compete with the yanks, sox, etc….so they are happy where they are in terms of revenue to expense ratios. Not saying I agree..just saying this is one way that it may make business sense to them.

  54. Korean internet reporting Choo about to sign with Dodgers-seeking confirmation but cannot find it anywhere. Could be why Dodgers willing to move Kemp

  55. Gonna start my own weekend website called “What can we do when Stoetens not there” who’s in?

    • I’d like a guest column. If it get’s syndicated I’d like 2.5 percent of profits and merchandise.

      • Done…hey Aaaaandrew!!

      • You mentioned that before. Make it so.

      • Mr Smasher means that he would accept 5% of gross receipts on all and every syndication made in any media either known now or invented in the future throughout all territories in the universe. As well we would request look-back language that would allow this royalty to escalate should other media streams in other universes open up. Also we want 50% of gross on any merchandising done as a result of said syndication. Said merchandise to include, but not to be restricted to, Smasher bobble head dolls. Smasher mouse pads, Smasher iPad and iPhone covers etc etc.

        • I would imagine that you will be using the “push-pull” marketing strategy after establishing the brand.
          No doubt his sex toy line recieved a boost after the video was released.

    • I wonder if this will cause an economic collapse in MLB eventually. What I mean is supposedly there is a bunch of TV money going around right now but is there a smart Org. besides the Rays any more? I would hate this but is there a chance right now for the Jays to fucking sell everyone on a high note and do a massive rebuild for say 2015? The Yankees are going to spend and the fucksox are kinda set …thoughts?

      • “is there a smart Org. besides the Rays any more?”

        You mean, like, the Cardinals, who are basically the Rays, except with lots of money?

        • You do realize what you just said is fucked of course. Lot’s of money/ Rays/Cards….new to the MLB?

          • Hahah

          • Spending lots of money isn’t necessarily dumb.

            Spending lots of money in dumb ways, re: Peralta, is dumb.

          • Also, re: your point regarding economic collapse, I think this is only the beginning, and teams will spend even further next season. Thus, I’d be inclined to get the Jays to lock everyone up now, rather than later. Really, I’d be inclined to get the Jays to lock everyone up last season, but the Jays kind of did that by trading for Buehrle, Reyes, Dickey, et al.

            Economic collapse only happens if teams are spending beyond their income. An influx of TV money is the opposite of that. It’s possible that fans could get disgusted by the amount of contract money and stop going to games, but if fans weren’t disgusted at $10 million per season, I’m not sure they’ll be disgusted at $20 million per season.

            Further, sports is one of the few entities where operating losses are not necessarily bad. Many owners own teams as a means of paying back to their community or else as a personal hobby, aka Mark Cuban/Paul Allen. This is more common in Europe than in America, granted. For businesses like Rogers, the Blue Jays aren’t merely a portion of their business; the Blue Jays are one of their best advertisements, not to mention cost-controlled content. Given that, even if they ran the Jays at an operating loss, it would be besides the point. The shareholders wouldn’t like it, but they’d still come out on top.

            Now Rogers hasn’t shown signs of choosing to view the situation in that light, so the point is moot. But I doubt baseball is going to collapse any time soon.

            • Point being you can’t lock up old Canard so what the fuck is a GM to do? Partake with a huge trade and sign a top FA? I would go for the last stand and trade the farm. Your clients are at the gate….do NOT turn them away.

              • I agree AA has to make a move to keep the fans coming.

                But I’d be very careful about trading the farm. A young emergent superstar from our farm could prove more valuable, both winning-wise and at the gate, than any player we could acquire. (After all, the really great players aren’t available, generally speaking.)

                I expect both Stroman and Sanchez to make their major league debuts this season, especially given the Jays’ recent history of promoting pitching prospects straight from New Hampshire. The last time we had a true top prospect make their major league debut? Brett Lawrie. Just saying. These are two players that can help the team this coming season.

                (And don’t say Sean Nolin. He didn’t make any Top 100 Prospects lists prior to his debut, as far as I know.)

                If that means we’re screwed on trades, then make a splash with the wallet, either by signing a FA or by absorbing the bulk of money for a good player with a bad contract.

                • I’m in the camp that says don’t do too much tinkering for the sake of tinkering. I’m of the opinion that we need one arm (a 2 or 3 starter) and need to address one of either 2B or catcher (preferably catcher). I would like to see what the team can do as it is currently constructed, especially now that we have some of our young arms back. I expect a bounce back from Melky. I can live with a Lind platoon. Assuming improved health next year and a start ro the season that isn’t abysmal, we could be in the hunt for a wild card. I don’t relish the thought of AA compromising the farm this year.

    • In a side note, Rob Ford wants to be the spokesmodel for Muscle milk.

      wanting something..and getting it….completely unrelated sometimes

  56. Dammit AA. Do something already. FFS!!!

  57. I’ve wanted them to move Buehrle since they got him in the trade. Not because he’s bad but just because of the financial flexibility a move like that would offer. Of course I never expected the rash of pitching injuries that the Jays had either so in some ways I think it makes Buehrle look all that more valuable in light of that. That said, what are the odds that the Jays above average pitching injuries continue?

    As Stoeten mentioned above I think some of the Jays younger arms will actually surprise this year like some of the younger arms did in St. Louis over the second half of the year. Of course having 3 really solid starters in place makes already makes that a much easier proposition to stomach even though there is still so much risk in that. Do the Jays have that? I mean it’s entirely possible if you get a healthy Dickey and Morrow to start with but again the risk factor is just so high counting on young generally untested arms for 40% of your rotation.

    I truly do think this team is much much better than what they showed last year. In fact I would equate the 2013 Jays to the 2012 Red Sox. When you look at how much time was lost to injuries, not just in the pitching, but at nearly every on field position it’s kind of mind blowing.

    • @sandlot.

      I agree that some of the Jays young arms like Hutch, Stroman, Drabek etc may surprise in 2014. On the other hand , it’s just too risky to let a reliable starter like Buerhle go . The Jays may need a one or 2 extra wins in 2014 to get the playoffs, & having a reliable Buerhle may be the difference.

      • when you say let go..what do you mean? do you mean simply dump his salary onto another team for minimal return? or do you mean trading him for anything other than a major league ready pitcher?

        • @mckraken

          I mean trading Buerhle for salary relief or prospects. The cost of reliable starting pitching has risen substantially over the past couple of years.

          It sounds crazy to pay 18 million a year for buerhle, but that’s what you have to pay for 200 innings of work.

          • Thats what it costs for 200 innings of work from one veteran pitcher.

            its much cheaper to get 100 ip from two young pitchers in the organization already . and i believe these two pitchers could closely replicate what mark does

  58. This fuckhead on the fan590 George rusik is fucking unbearable to listen to. I miss my cable. I want to punch him as bad as mike wilner

  59. Good story about L.B. Dantzler at Baseball America.

    AA drafted him in the 2013, 14th round.
    He hit .302/.385/.504 with 9 homers in 232 at bats for the Vancouver Canadians this year.
    1B/3B
    Bats Lefty.

    Nice pick.

    For those that have a subscription here’s the link:
    http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/batboy-makes-good/

    • Lansing or Dunedin next year?

      • I’d like to preface this response by saying that I’m not trying to pick a fight with anyone, especially not the writer of this blog whom I admire for his passion and dedication despite the fact that I’m often on opposite sides of a number of baseball debates with him.

        To the question at hand:
        I’d jump Dantzler right to High A as he’s 22 but I’m all about the fast track. I was one of the few who thought bringing up Sean Nolin last year when we still had a sniff at the post season was fair. I actually thought he deserved another few starts as the extremely small sample size while being subjected to first performance anxiety was not a fair segment to judge him on.

        Funny thing is some guys like Wacha respond well when they are given the opportunity early and then people say the Coach and GM are “smart/supportive” but if the rook get’s hit hard then the Coach/GM are “rushing” a player and potentially harming him.

        I would guarantee that Sean Nolin like Wacha welcomed the opportunity when AA/Mozeliak came calling. I find it humorous when supposed “guys in the know” otherwise known as media say that these guys get “harmed” by being brought up too early.
        Sean Nolin, since he has been drafted has played for 7 different professional clubs within the Jays organization, and probably 10 or more different teams growing up.

        I’m quite sure that he has had numerous occasions where his performance has been disappointing. Games where he has felt like he’s tossing batting practice. For media to say that AA and Gibby have harmed this kid from the 1.1 innings he has been subjected to M.L. hitters is laughable. Any pitcher can shrug of a bad outing, and in the entirely implausible chance that Nolin is so mentally weak that he can’t shrug off 1.1 innings of a bad outing then he would never have become a ML pitcher anyway.

        Promote Stroman to the Jays and Sanchez to AAA with a fast track for an early to mid season call-up. If they respond then it’s probably meant to be, if not send them back to get more innings and work. I’ve never once read an article about a top prospect who didn’t make it who blamed being promoted too quickly. Media likes that “narrative” to borrow an over used term but it’s bullshit. Guys are either ready or they go back down, work on some shit and then come back.

        Many have argued on here (I believe you too Soeten, and please correct me if I’m wrong) that the Jays potentially harmed Nolin by speeding him to the bigs desperately when they were short of pitching. Yet when folks like myself have made arguments on this blog about the importance of chemistry and how an asshole such as Milton Bradley/John Rocker/Yunel Escobar….etc can be an energy suck that hurt moral and performance, we’ve been countered with such arguments as ” players who play professional ball would not have gotten so far if they were fragile enough to perform worse if they have to work with an asshole”.

        You can’t have it both ways. Either these athletes are affected by emotion or they are strong enough and have dealt with it long enough not to be affected. In truth, it’s probably somewhere in between.

        #StromanSanchezIn2014
        #GoJays
        #NoAssholes

        • And again, didn’t write this to pick a fight Andrew or to be contrary, just how I feel.

          The large majority of people who post here agree with you on the subject and my goal is not to change opinion but just to give an alternative one.

          • I agree with you Smasher. Fact of the matter is, environment can play a huge role in work performance..be it pro baseball, working at Deny’s, or in a corporate setting.

            These people are not robots. if you hate showing up to work everyday because there is an annoying asshole or two, or three, or four that makes your job miserable, it is not ridiculous to surmise that your work performance may suffer at least a bit relative to working in an optimal environment.

            when major league player after major league player tells us that this thing exists, and they actually lived it….why should we believe people who have no personal experience in the matter?

            • Ask the Miami Dolphins about chemistry. It may be hard to quantify, but it doesn’t mean it’s not important.

          • I dont think there’s one specific formula for anyone. With some guys the slow development seems to work and with others (eg Strasberg, Trout, Wacha) the faster you promote them the more they thrive.
            I think the Wacha’s Trouts and Strasbergs of the world would somehow do well in just about any environment because of their “elite” talent and (perhaps most importantly) attitude.
            Conversely the Rays formula (for lack of a better term) seems to work wonders too.
            The trick is figuring out the difference. Two guys come to mind even though they have overcome (as far as we can tell) their problems: Votto and Greinke. They both have issues with emotional sensitivity and are good examples of people to not push too hard.
            Having said all that, Stroman to the Jays and Sanchez to the Bisons. Love it.

        • I think the truth is somewhere in between.

          Some people are affected by emotion; some are not. Some people are strong enough; other people are not.

          There are athletes, star athletes even, in both groups.

          I think it comes down to knowing your individual players.

        • @smasher

          +1.

          Very well said.

  60. Enough talk already! I just want a blockbuster trade or signing. Is that too much to ask???

  61. Looks like the Angels and Cards made a couple of moves overnight.
    The Cards are shedding payroll – could they be clearing room for starting pitching?

    • Just because they’re payroll is dropping… Doesn’t mean they’re “shedding” it.

      Getting Bourjos and a good prospect for Freese and Salas is a great trade. Salary relief is a bonus.

  62. Interesting article from Scott Ferguson about Gibbons’ contract. He got 2 years plus an option year. If they don’t fire him by Jan 1 2014, then his 2015 option is guaranteed and 2016 becomes his option.

  63. agree reyes

  64. We need a new thread

  65. I can see this getting out of hand.
    Panic and conclusions without the proper research.

    http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/11/22/5134832/blue-jays-budget-cuts-possible-under-new-rogers-ceo-guy-laurence

    I’m not critcizing BBB,they’re just passing the info along.

    • I just reread my comment.

      By panic. I mean the general public’s reaction.

    • I find it kind of amusing personally. People have to stop and look at what Rogers has done over the last couple of years as far as their acquisitions go. There is always going to be redundancies and a lot of the times the cuts come months or even a couple of years later once things get sorted out. The layoffs could be precisely that. Also it doesn’t hurt to take a look at their quarterly earnings report either. Year over year their net income is up.

      A couple of interesting lines from the report:

      “Media operating revenue was higher this quarter and year to date compared to the same periods last year, mainly because of revenue growth at Sportsnet, higher attendance at Toronto Blue Jays games and higher sales at The Shopping Channel.”

      “Higher adjusted operating profit this quarter
      Adjusted operating profit was up 10% this quarter and down 3% year to date compared to last year, reflecting the revenue and expense changes described above.

      Excluding the acquisition of theScore that closed in the second quarter of 2013:

      - operating revenue would have been 10% higher this quarter and 4% higher year to date compared to last year
      - adjusted operating profit would have been 6% higher this quarter.

      Excluding the acquisition of theScore and the residual impact of the NHL lockout, year to date adjusted operating profit would have been 3% higher than the same period last year. ”

      All that says to me is that the media division is more than healthy enough and is growing nicely even if it’s not all that quickly. The extra costs were largely related to The Score acquisition and had nothing to do with problems in the business. Just imagine how much better the Jays numbers would have been if they were any where near a playoff spot in August or September. Add to that the resurgence of the Leafs and you’ve got two very hot properties for their sports channels.

      • @sandlot

        +1..

        If anything, Rogers should be surprised that attendance & tv ratings stayed strong even though the team was playing poorly throughout the season.

        I would like to see what the advance flexpack /season tickets are like.

        My opinion is that people will show up if the team looks like it can compete on paper.

  66. Just a thought, but wouldn’t it be wise to nestle our prospect pitchers (Stroman,Sanchez) at the back of the rotation that includes one of the more consistent career starting pitchers (Mark Buehrle), a former Cy Young winner and a potential front line starter in Morrow. Assuming pitching mentors/leaders are important, I sure as hell would like to start my career development surrounded by those colleagues.

    • With you on this one for the fifth spot atleast.

      Not really seeing the value of signing a pitcher unless they’re better than Buehrle or something like that. We should have a serviceable 4 and 5 somewhere in our currency crop of pitchers.

      And hell if injuries blow through that depth we’re probably screwed anyway. One more back end arm probably won’t help that much.

  67. I talked to Scott Downs last night at the Atlantis Casino in Nassau.

    I couldn’t remember his name, because of all the booze, so I said, Left handed pitcher, Blue Jays Circa 1990? His wife said wife snaps her head at me and says, try 2000. Scottie Downs. I think he said he’s pitching now for the Marlins?

    He was into a pretty big game of Blackjack so we didn’t talk long. He said he was just hanging out with Jesse Litsche, mentioned that he had more surgery and still trying to make it back.

    Anyways the funny part of the story is that I was playing Blackjack one table over. I started to get on a roll, 500 up, and everytime I drew a Blackjack I’d let out a SCOTTTAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!and then show him my chips.

    He’d just turn back look, and laugh. My table thought I was fucked. Well fuck them, they don’t know Scottie Downs was one of the best relievers the Jays ever saw.

    • @Kelly.

      Cool Story!. I have been to that casino. Scotty was a great pitcher for the Jays. , but I remember Cito let him hit once when they were playing an inter league game a few years ago & he got hurt running to first base.

      They used to call him snakeface

      • God I remember that. He’d been told to stand there and just take 4 strikes but he swung and connected with the ball and ran down to 1st just like a real batter and hurt himself fairly badly. If I recall correctly, Cito was pissed as hell.

        • Haha. That’s funny shit. I remember that now. Hey Oakville, why did they call him Snakying. eface? Awe, yes, now I know why. He does have distinctive facial features.

          I asked him if I could buy him a drink, meanwhile he’s getting them fre, cause he was playing I was boozed.

          • @Kellygruber

            The name snakeface came from a Jaystalkcaller according to Dustin Parkes. I thought he looked like a snake when he was pitching.

            “My first thought is to the immortal Jays Talk caller who a couple years ago inspired the Scott Downs “Snakeface” nickname/meme by suggesting that the Jays late inning relievers needed to be more intimidating.” Dustin Parkes January 2011

        • @Isabella.

          Cito went ballistic. The Jays were down to one bench guy, the backup catcher, so they needed Snakeface to hit. He stumbled out of batters box & ended up on the disabled list for a month. He was our closer at that time.

  68. If the Jays want to get FA’s the time is now. Not only do they not have to forfeit a First round draft choice under any scenario, no matter who they sign, but a real risk to our competitive team going forward is the accelerating decline in the value of the Canadian Dollar. All salaries and other bloated expenses are in $US while revenue is in mostly $CDN. While, Rogers has hedged to some degree (per their Balance Sheet, known as BS for short) it can’t last too long as American Barrick found out.
    The fall from 1.02 this time last year to .9488 yesterday adds an extra 560,000/year just to carry that fucker Buerhle and another 560,000 for Reyes and so on. So yes, a new guy at the helm, a falling dollar and backwards we will go as they will look to make that money up somehow. In the end the shareholders value things in $CDN

    • The value of the dollar against the USD is definitely a concern for Canadian professional sports teams. After all, the weak CAD was a major reason several Canadian NHL teams left for the US, with the Oilers almost having to do the same.

      While the actual monetary increase in salaries for Blue Jays players due to a decreasing CAD is nothing to sneeze at (with a $150 million payroll a 5 cent drop would add about $8 million to the team payroll), it’s a small drop in the bucket that is the Media section of Rogers. The operating expenses for that department (which includes the Blue Jays player salaries) totalled $1.4 billion in 2012.

      It all depends how you want to look at it. It could mean that the Jays miss out on $8 million worth of talent to make up for that loss. Or perhaps, Rogers simply sees it as a cost of doing business in the MLB market, and that the year to year currency fluctuations have little impact on the overall profitability of the media department.

  69. They are saying McCann is close to signing with the New York on a long term deal at MLB Trade Rumours.

  70. Sorry should read Yankees.

    My wish list keeps getting smaller

  71. Go Yanks!!!! Might as well cheer for them against the Red Sox since AA aint gonna do shit,

  72. Not sure what it means but Cubs beat writer Bruce Levine says Jays are “putting together a package of youmg players” for Samardzija.

  73. Scares the hell out of me what this package could include.

  74. Yanks officially sign McCann, which is a big upgrade for them at catcher, obviously. Didn’t want them to get him.

    I wonder if we’ll give up Stroman or Sanchez, or both, when we trade for a starter.

  75. If the Jays are putting something together for Samardzija, I can’t see a scenario where it gets done without one of Sanchez or Stroman.

    • I don’t have any real problem with Stroman in a Samardzija package. Hopefully, one of Stroman or Gose plus gets Samardzija. Then, Hutchison and/or Nolin and maybe a reliever gets Brett Anderson. Then, Samardzija, Anderson and Morrow would be the rotation along with the other two guys. They would have kept Aaron Sanchez and would still have Drabek, Rogers, Jeffries maybe and even McGowan as fall backs.

      • I also think that fliiping Buherle and his back-loaded contract to an NL team while he still has considerable value is worth at least considering and exploring even if it leaves a hole. Buerle plus some of his salary to Cinncinati to replace Arroyo? What would that bring back?

  76. Cardinals signing Jhonny Peralta. Contrary to AA’s belief, things are definitely moving this offseason.

  77. “Stand Pat” AA is his new name.

    • So what you’re saying is, Alex Anthopoulous, who has developed a reputation of massive mind-blowing trades usually accomplished with stealth, usually at least one such trade a year, now deserves the name “stand pat” because he hasn’t done anything less than one month into this offseason?

    • Stand By Your (General) Man(ager)

  78. That’s exactly what I’m saying.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *