dailyduce3

Daily? Also, as the US begins its Thanksgiving ExcessFest today, things are likely going to be mighty quiet on the baseball front. Deadline to tender contracts to arbitration eligible players is Monday, though, so maybe things will heat up a little by the end of the weekend, but don’t hold your breath. Which…uh… is totally why I’ve been sitting on all these links here. Uh… yeah. That’s the ticket. 

Ben Nicholson-Smith explains what’s been holding up the process, suggesting that it looks like things will finally start to happen soon.

Benny Fresh’s colleague, Shi Davidi of Sportsnet, talks about the relief market, as Alex Anthopoulos tells him that he thinks the club’s bullpen surplus will only increase as the winter goes on. Anthopoulos, like everyone else, seems like he’s slow-playing this one. (Also from the piece: “While a fresh start somewhere else might do Romero some good, the Blue Jays right now have no incentive to give him one. They owe him $16.1 million through the next two seasons, and there’s no point in buying him out so he can try to rebuild himself with another club.” Ugh.)

Related, we have some great stuff from Blue Jays Plus, as they look at the entirety of the Jays’ bullpen option, with a view to each player’s trade value. The conclusion isn’t entirely surprising, but still an excellent breakdown.

Elsewhere at Blue Jays Plus, Chris Sherwin writes a paean to Marcus Stroman. (Also: title pun!)

Meanwhile, Jason Parks of Baseball Prospectus chats with readers, saying that he thinks trading Marcus Stroman or Aaron Sanchez for Jeff Samardzija would be a bit reckless, that trading both and D.J. Davis would be too much for David Price, let alone the Shark, and that he’s higher on Stroman than he is on Sanchez, mostly because of the latter’s “iffy” command. Four years as a pro without reaching Double-A will quite rightly make people start to wonder, though I think part of that has been the Jays’ babying of him, coupled with some injury issues this season that might have hastened his promotion had they been avoided.

Michael Grange writes that the Jays and Alex Anthopoulos must spend if they want to win, which… yeah, I’m down with that. Whoever wrote the headline on that one probably should add another name to that demand: Rogers.

Buster Olney of ESPN.com (Insider Olney) lists the Jays among a number of dark horse candidates to land Robinson Cano, but he’s not terribly confident that such a thing would ever really happen. “Cano would make them better,” he explains, “and they’re just enough of a wild card, in how they’re operated, to wonder … but still, can’t see it.”

MLBTR stuff: Not sure how I didn’t end up mentioning this when it was fresh, but apparently the Jays asked about Matt Kemp at the GM meeting. Last week Nick Cafardo thought the Jays, along with the Twins, were “circling” Ricky Nolasco– he eventually signed with Minnesota for four years and $49-million. Rumours yesterday that there could be issues with Jarrod Saltalamacchia’s medicals, though they were quickly denied by his agent. Jeff Samardzija has likely thrown his last pitch for the Cubs, some say, though… uh… others do not. Ted Lilly’s comeback attempt has stalled, and he’s decided to retire. Too bad– was a very solid pitcher in his three years with the Jays.

I was holding this one with the thoughts of hijacking it with my own answers, but Gregor Chisholm pretty much nails it: his five burning off-season questions post at BlueJays.com.

Gregor also takes an excellent, er… deep look at the Jays’ rotation depth.

More BlueJays.com stuff: Brett Lawrie is among the finalists for the Tip O’Neill Award. Jack Morris is on the Hall of Fame ballot for the final time, and while I found his commentary this season far more enjoyable than I thought I would this year, I can’t say I’m in favour of him making the cut– basically for reasons like what Dan Szymborski cites here– and with all the worthy names ahead of him it’s going to be tough. A look at the connection between Roberto Alomar’s new company and Jays Care. Sergio Santos hopes his injury troubles are behind him.

Bluebird Banter takes a look at the Jays’ promotional giveaways for 2014, which don’t quite measure up to what the Giants are doing, but hey, bucket hats!

Elsewhere at Bluebird Banter, Minor Leaguer has created a ridiculously great roster tree map. I’m not going to explain it– just go have a look.

More from BBB: Just how bad was Josh Johnson’s year in Toronto? Omar Infante anyone? Noah Sherman explores some stuff on the positioning of outfield fences.

Mark Hulet of FanGraphs looks at some unprotected Rule Five names of note, and he thinks the Jays’ Ryan Tepera is the most notable among them. Marcus Walden and former Jays prospect catcher Carlos Perez are on there too. Two things on Perez: being unprotected in the Rule Five draft doesn’t really speak well to his value, and should hopefully calm some of those concerned about him being traded. On the other… um… maybe pick him up?

Speaking of, another FanGraphs piece, this one by Bradley Woodrum, looks at the thinning catching market.

I’m not usually one to believe in things like showcasing players for trade, since most teams already have a pretty good idea of who can do what, which isn’t likely to change based on a few appearances, but Jays Journal wonders if that might be the case with Kevin Pillar, who is heading to the Dominican Winter League, and it at least sounds somewhat plausible.

This isn’t going to be easy, but please, if you’ve been pining for the Jays to make a play for Roy Halladay this off-season, read this report card on the pitcher’s 2013 season with the Phillies over at Crashburn Alley. But do it sitting down. In a word: grim.

Jose Bautista taking an awkward selfie at a Miami Heat game? Jose Bautista taking an awkward selfie at a Miami Heat game.

Marlins blog Fish Stripes looks at the mixed results that team has seen from last year’s big trade with the Jays.

Drew gives a good rundown on the newly-loaded Hall of Fame ballot over at Getting Blanked.

Lastly, Sam Miller of Baseball Prospectus re-links a piece of his on Jeff Mathis, and the impact the ex-Blue Jay had on Marlins ace Jose Fernandez.

Comments (259)

  1. #LonelyJose

  2. Silver lining. If the Jays aren’t willing to give away
    Romero to help him rebuild his value elsewhere, they must not be too concerned about getting out from under *some* of his contract, maybe?

    Another small reason not to worry about Rogers tightening the purse strings? Not that it was really something to be worried about anyway.

    • Are you really looking for financial indications in statements like this?

      It has nothing to do with rogers spending or not spending. They owe Romero that much money whether they release him or not. No team is going to take on anything significant from the contract.

    • Totally goofy comment. The only thing to be read into the fact that Romero isn’t moved is that no one will take him unless the Jays pay the full freight. He’s not taking up a 40 man roster spot, so what’s the point of trading him and paying his full salary? Nothing to read into that at all.

      • Is there not a buyout involved? JT’s comment makes sense, if that is the case.

        • what buy out?

          The buy out is you paying out his contract and giving him a release to sign elsewhere.

          This isn’t the NFL

        • OK, think maybe there’s some confusion with how this works; Mr. Ashby, if someone had picked Romero up on waivers, then they would be on the hook for his full contract (a la Vernon Wells). If, however, the Jays released him, and somebody else picked him up, the Jays would still have to pay him his full contract minus (I think) the league minimum his new team would be responsible for (a la BJ Ryan).

      • He’s passed through waivers twice, yes. That means that nobody is willing to pay his full contract to take him on, not that nobody is willing to take him unless everything is paid by the jays (though that could still be true).

        My comment was not really about searching for financial indications in the article. There has been plenty of talk around here about finding ways to shave salaries in order to accomplish as much as possible under a $150 million ceiling, including getting out from under even a small portion of Ricky’s salary. I’m just saying that maybe Rogers and the Jays aren’t all that worried about saving their pennies.

        • you’re stretching and its ridiculous.

          the team isn’t considering letting him go as an option because it won’t save them any money at all. period . the end.

          • Not talking about a buyout anymore. But in the right scenario it’s possible to save some of his salary by moving him. Any contract is moveable, in the right package. But yes, the Jays won’t give him away.

            • It isn’t inconceivable you could get a team to throw in a couple mil or even a shade more to try their hand at Romero. I don’t think JT deserves to be jumped on so hard for this comment. If for example, you had a cash/cap rich team that wanted prospects, but the jays were really tight on payroll, we could conceivably deal a (or multiple) good prospect(s) plus Romero and a larger chunk of his contract (essentially buying the prospects from us with dollars and sacrificing a spot on their 40 man) in order to create enough cap space for us to go after a key free agent. But if the jays aren’t considering moving him to get their 2 mil from someone hedging their bets, or considering moving him with other prospects/ as a part of another deal to make cap space then it is more likely that AA isn’t working with as “hard” of a cap as we fear. Probably nothing, but I really don’t get why people are being so smug and shitting on JT for thinking outside the box a bit. It would be a very creative way to get an extra 10 mil or so that can be spent on a free agent (say omar infante for 10-15 mil per year)…. so basically what i’m saying is… a couple good prospects and Romero could = omar infante….. or am I just baked? …. because I am.. but seriously

      • Given what the Jays would save if they moved Romero, I think it’s safe to assume that if a club was willing to pay any of Romero’s contract, he wouldn’t be here anymore. The fact that he is still here indicates that there is no such club.

        Oh I’m sure someone’s willing to pay Romero something. But if that something is 500k, that’s not enough money saved to be worth bothering for the Jays.

        Romero is owed $15.6 million remaining, since there is no chance in hell that $13.1 million option is getting picked up. If the Jays were able to find a taker for Romero + $11 million in cash, I think they’d do it.

    • Guys!

      He’s a former injured-reserve All-Star!

  3. Holy link dump Batman!

  4. stroman/sanchez/davis for price is too much?

    I’d do that in a heart beat, i think the rays wouldn’t though.

    • for four years of him, absolutely, for one year of him, no thanks

    • The Rays would do that in a heartbeat. You’re talking about two top 50 pitching prospects who are going to be ready soon. Sizeable overpay by us for two years.

      • ^This

        Those three would be crazy overpay for 2 years of price.

        • we paid more then that for dickey. Not in volume but in ceiling and talent.

          and price is well he’s david fucking price. you arent getting him for cheap

          • I’d say about the same, D’arnaud is the top level, syndergaard bottom 100 (at the time)

            We also traded Buck (salary relief) for thole as well so….

            Sanchez and stroman now are easily top 50′s though I have no idea where on the list they would land.

          • While it’s true we paid a high price for Dickey, it was widely expected that Dickey would sign an extension. Thus, we didn’t pay that for one year of Dickey, we paid that for 4 years of Dickey.

    • It’s not a bad offer, but they’ll likely get more for him. Just look at the calibre of prospects being dealt for rental SP the last few years (Jacob Turner for Sanchez and this years Garza deal) and even the Dickey deal last year (syndergaard and d’arnaud are a similar package to stroman Sanchez probably). Price is much more desirable than Dickey was and contending teams with money will be willing to pay a premium for two years of him.

      • The point is Stroman, Sanchez and Davis would be overkill, not that the Rays wouldn’t get that kind of return in a trade. They fleeced the royals of Myers and Ordizzi or whatever his name is for shields.

  5. I say pick up Perez.

    • If you mean as a Rule 5 then you gotta carry him on the 25 for a year.
      Unless you mean a minor league trade?

  6. in the Parks chat there’s also this encouraging bit on Gose…

    David (Montreal): Where would you rate the Blue Jays farm system? Also, what is Anthony Gose’s realistic role? Thanks.

    Jason Parks: Jays list coming up next week at BP. I think Gose can be a major league regular; a frustrating player that flashes a lot more potential than he lives up to.

  7. MLBTR had someone saying Stephen Drew made a mistake declining his QO. Is that someone we should go after and plug into 2B?

    • give up a draft pick for a 1 year stop gap at second..

      sounds like a great idea

      • One year? Who said that? He turned down one year at 14M. Obviously he want a multi-year deal.

        • I’m also not sure what he would be bridging the gap to. The Jays legitimate middle infield prospects are all 17-18 years old and playing in the low minors. If the Jays are looking for a “stop gap” at second, I’m pretty sure they’ll want one for around three years.

          • This is my point – he’s young enough that his deal could still have value after 2 or 3 years. At the same time he is developed enough to help now and he is familiar with AL East.

            We have the protected pick. He could be a great example of getting value for that pick right now.

      • Would be a second round pick………what is the expected outcome of a second round pick? (hint..its not even a major leaguer).

        this draft pick love has gone overboard. 95 percent of them dont make the show…and those that do seldom have as much impact as one year of stephen drew would have on this team.

    • with the Cards signing Peralta, Stephen Drew’s market evaporated. he might end up being the Kyle Lohse of this offseason. i think the Mets will wait him out. and then sign him in Jan or Feb for well below market value.

  8. Which was a mistake.

    His bat is dwindling, his OPS has sunk in the last few years, he’s an injury concern as well.

    he’s not enough of an upgrade to justify losing a pick over

    • His OPS was up .120 this year. .777 for a SS/2B sounds pretty good to me. And our protected pick means we get him cheaper than others – nothing wrong with taking advantage of that.

  9. Not really fair to count Sanchez’s draft year as a “year” as a pro. He’s had three full seasons as a pro and moved up a level at a time. No red flags there really, he’s only going to be 21 at the start of next season. Plus the AFL has historically been seen as comparable to the upper minors, so there’s that.

    • Sanchez has plus everything we all know that. But the other two of the Jays big three moved up to Double, he did not, thats why i think you get people saying those types of things.

      I am not worried about him, nor should anyone else.

      Would i trade him……maybe……do i want to….not yet.

      • Fair point, but at the same time, it’s not as if he’s toiling away or struggling in Low-A for the second straight year or something. Noah got 54 innings at AA, Sanchez got 23.1 innings in the AFL. In terms of ETA they were both on the same course coming into the year, and Syndergaard’s taken a clear step forward, but I still don’t think they’re that far apart. They’ll both start at AA this season and if all goes well, Syndergaard will probably be up in late 2014. If all goes well, Sanchez is probably competing for a spot on the 2015 opening day rotation.

  10. sanchez does not have plus everything… he most certainly does not have plus command or control.

    it is pretty much an open question as to whether or not he’ll throw enough strikes to be effective as he advances.

  11. How come nobody ever mentions that Aaron Loup has 3 options remaining???

    • What’s the point of bringing it up? He’s too good for teams to need to use it.

      • In fairness, I DID mention Delabar’s option in the piece, so I should’ve mentioned Loup’s. I fixed it.

        • And you also point out that Perez and Loup are similarly effective vs. RHB and LHB.

          Right now we have 9-10 legit relievers and 3 of them are Lefties. If Loup, Cecil, & Perez are still around at the end of S.T., I would have to think that optioning Loup would be a smart play, considering Perez is potentially under team control until 2017

          • and making the minimum for the next 2 years (whereas McGowan will cost $4 million next year, IF he is healthy, which you also described as a coin-flip.) I know who I would keep if I had to choose! but maybe we can keep them both by optioning Loup.

  12. ENOUGH OF THE STROMAN and SANZHEZ for “The Shark” speculation already!

  13. .

    • Johnny Monell , catcher, just got moved off of the 40.

      Nice triple slash in AAA .275/.364/.494 with 20 homers and 60 walks.
      Could be an interesting guy to let compete for a spot.
      I’m growing concerned that so many teams are still in on the few “name” guys left and AA is going to miss out.

      Could probably get this guy for cash considerations. He’s a lefty so if we get stuck with JP (shuddering) he could platoon.

      • From who?

      • ehhh. its not the worst idea, and your right, we probably could get him for next to nothing.

        Its hard to expect much from a guy who’s 27 by the time he gets his first real look at AAA though. I have trouble imagining him being an upgrade over Thole, whos been playing regularly in the majors since he was 23.

        But who knows right? this Monell fellow was a 30th round pick so its doubtful hes ever gotten a really fair chance.

        • Can he catch RAD’s 80mph knuckleball?

          • I don’t know, but if it’s only a couple hundred grand to get him, why not give him the chance to win the backup job in spring training. His numbers look like he could give Thole a good run for his money. And if he can’t catch Dick, or if he doesn’t hit then stow him in AAA.

            He seems like a worthy gamble, and let’s face it, all the catching FA’s left are gambles. He would be substantially less financially and has a small chance to do what Yan Gomes did.
            Small risk, possible big reward. It can’t hurt with the shit left out there.

  14. Life long jays fan here, long time follower first time poster. Bored at work and ready to rant! Get ready Ive got years worth of posts!

    I like AA am am a supporter but there is no doubt my support is wavering and I think there are several moves and attitudes that were / are terrible.

    Catcher
    How was McCann not mentioned once as a potential pick up for the jays? This is clearly the area of most need for the team right now. I’d be happy if all they did was sign him and it would instantly make them a legitimate contender – even for 10M more over 5 years than the yankees I’d sign him. Oh but then you would be overpaying for him. Just like in order to sign any FA you have to “overpay”. How does this make sense that whatever contract they get is over market value – in fact the contract they get is exactly market value because that is what the market paid. The yankees overpaid at 85 for 5 years – say that when they win the world series heavily supported by their all star catcher. The window to win is now beacuse of the direction the team has gone so dont accept mediocrity. The catcher is the hole and the most important position on a baseball team other than pitcher – memo the catcher plays in like 3/4 of all the games. Does somebody need to explain the importance of catcher to the jays? Name the last time a top team didn’t have a stellar catcher? Its happened sometimes sure but those are outliners but at least they had a solid defensive guy if he couldnt hit. Boston didn’t have an elite guy last year but did have 2 quality guys. Unless he said outright I am not playing there how could the jays not make an offer? He is a stud, perennial all star and the missing piece for this team. Makes them rival anybody position player wise. Losing D’Arnaud was tough to swallow but hard to argue too much about getting Dickey for the win now mode. But you trade Buck as well who is proven decent player and good insurance against JP regressing. Like Buck couldn’t learn to catch a knuckleball. All the writing was on the wall with JP he was way overhyped and it was a typical regression – his skillset is entirely common for catchers and this story has played out over and over throughout the history of MLB. Buck set the world on fire when he came up, regressed significantly and settled into decent middle of the road catcher with low average and some power (if I remember correctly). JP is of the same mold but not as much hitting. And now he is way underhyped because of a poor year. In all likelihood he will make adjustments and return to the mediocre catcher he has always been and over time will be Buck calibre. Would be a real solid backup on a contender to mash against lefties. But AA says we haven’t even considered him as a backup. Haven’t considered this??????? This is the obvious thing to do. Does AA ride the short bus to the dome? JP is ideal backup unless you have a solid defence first guy like Molina. Well would be if they had kept him in the minors a year or two longer and had a decent instructor to develop defence. How last year do you bank a win now year with JP as the catcher in his third year in the league without any solid veteran backup options?? Then lets shit on the guy and completely dismiss his abilities moving forward after a compeltely foreseeable poor year. So then go trade away Gomes for scraps who ends up being a solid catcher on a playoff calibre team. People say nobody could see that coming – well Cleveland seemed to and isnt that the job of a GM in the first place?? But not AAs fault – he is the Ninga!!! Instead the jays bring him up and have him play all over the diamond instead of developing him at the premier position in the game where he is clearly capable. But you picked up Thole who batted under .200 or something – well done. But who could have seen that coming? Well the GM should have thats who. Biggest mistake of AAs career his handling of catcher. Go out and get Salty who is the only catcher left who could pass as a legitimate starting catcher for a contender. Others are wildcards or mediocre.

    Second Base
    Second biggest mistake of AAs career – moving Lawrie to third. How do you move a potential stud hitter with solid defence off of a middle infield spot? His value as a player immediately plummeted through no fault of his own. At third he is a potential solid middle of the road option. At second he is a stud potential perennial all star. Its not too late just do it before spring training please. How is nobody talking about considering the option of moving Bautista to third and Lawrie to second and signing an outfielder?? This is the obvious solution to improve offence and defence with bonus of less strain potential injury to your franchise player. Or go find a third basemen lots more of them around than 2B. Media will say well Bautista wouldn’t want to move to third. Just like they say you cant go sign someone to a bigger deal than Baiutista since he would piss and moan like a teenage girl if you did that!!!!! Give me a break, Did the media ride the short bus to journalism school? If that is his attitude trade him. He is obviously no kind of leader if he isnt willing to move postitions to help to team be better or is a childish fool demanding that nobody make more than his 14M!!!!! a year he is making – a contract he signed in good faith several years ago with a different market etc. I doubt this comes from him and is just media bs from people with no understanding of what it means to be on a team and what leadership is. And dont move him mid season make a decision before the year.

    Starting Pitching
    The sky is not falling!!! There hasn’t been massive injuries or poor performances in the rotation yet, the season hasnt started!!!! It was the same some time back with Marcum, McGowen, Litsch etc in the fold. The AJys need SP, the Jays need SP!!!! Everyone saying the jays rotation is horrible – it wasnt – a comprehensive look at it and they had a decent rotation with a chance to be good and they were. Last year we were projected to have a top rotation – there was zero depth behind them. This year we lose Johnson as an option plus Romero has fallen off a cliff but we gain Drabek, Hutchinson, Stroman, Perez as depth options. Not a huge difference, not as good but not terribly worse. Would turn out better than last year if there are similar injuries. Most likely outcome is average injuries with one young guy / Romero stepping up and rotation is good complimented by stellar bullpen. Go out and replace Johnson with a quality FA if you can and have all those guys in the minors for depth – then you are looking pretty solid. Not as solid as if you got McCann instead mind you. Speculation to trade 2 top 50 pitching prospects, one close to majors for a middle of the road mediocre starter called the “Shark” – the short bus was full sized where whoever suggested that is from. Stroman could easily be better than the “”Shark” next year. Not likely but easily could be. Pretty solid bet he will be at least as good as the Shark over his pre FA years but no lets trade him+ for 2 years of the Shark. Sure maybe get Price for those two if Tampa bites f you want to try to win now and tank after.

    The Trade and the Media

    You make a move to win now last year but trade away a solid SS to anchor your defence – how do they give up Escobar last year in the trade to the Marlins. Because of some stupid eye black thing. Give me a break. At that point go for it keep Escobar and throw in a couple middle of the road prospects / don’t take Bonifacio. Escobar at short Reyes at second would look pretty good no? Escobar has a good year in 2011 and he is the man. He has decent offensive year in 2012 and he is shit. Give me a break. He was a top 10 SS when they traded him, solid defence good offence for a SS. Everyone so surprised that he has a good year in Tampa Bay – of course he did. Then Marlins flip him for a mediocre prospect – Jays should have just given Marlins a mediocre prospect and kept him. Did I mention they should have kept Buck as well?

    Miami is shit on for the trade and Jays are geniuses. Give me a break. Lets look at this objectively and consider the facts. Miami signs Reyes and Buehrle to heavily backloaded deals. They pay them each something like 12M to play for one year the way the contract was in a push to try to be competitive for their unsupportive fans in the first year in a new stadium. They spend big trying to win. The team is mediocre and fans dont even come out in the new stadium to watch the newly signed stars – I think I read they had below league average attendance if I am not mistaken. So they blow it up, they likely lost money in 2012 even though it was the first year in a new stadium. They trade the over priced regressing vets who cant win now for solid youth to rebuild what obviously isn’t a winner and not economically viable. Considering that Buehrle, Reyes, and Buck were FA signings (and that they got more value from than what they paid them in the first year of deals) they traded Bonifacio (a utility player) and one year of a high risk injury / regression top calibre pitcher. And they got back a top 10 SS on great contract, solid average young controllable SP, defensive wizard SS about to break into the league who could use some time in minors to hopefully learn how to hit, poor defence first catcher, top 150 prospect SP, top 100 OF prospect, legitimate bullpen prospect. For one year of a risky pitcher and a utlity player post arbitration!!! Truth is this was an absolute steal by the Marlins gaining huge assets for very little. It isnt their fault that the fans dont support the team in a brand new stadium. But oh poor Marlins fans the team management is just trying to make money. Lets not mention that they won the world series twice since the jays have made the playoffs. Isnt that the goal of MLB management? Yes it is and this trade has propelled them once again into that direction. Not to say I was totally against the trade from Jays side. But consider that if the jays were not a solidly mediocre team for 15 years with little chance of success maybe these FA would have signed there to begin with and the Jays wouldn’t have to trade away all these prospects they meticulously built up following a model that may enable them to compete without signing FAs who dont want to play there while at the same time completely abondoning their model that actually was working and instead shifting gears doing the same thing that lead them to being mediocre for 15 years.

    The Ninga
    AA was super stealth to get Rasmus what a Ninga!!! The Cardinals just gave up on Rasmus because Larusa wasn’t high on him!! Yah! Wait a second isnt Larusa arguably the greatest baseball manager of all time? But we gave them spare parts who were terrible. Wait a second didnt those “spare parts’ significantly help the team make a miraculous run into the playoffs then win the world series? But still the Cardinals were hosed and dont know what they are doing – they have only been a perennial contender in a smaller market than Toronto. And Rasmus tanks .. big time for a year and a half. But still AA is a wizard. He did good last year and we didn’t sign him to an extension. Now he is close to FA and unlikely to extend. Why would he. And after next year he will walk because we don’t want to “overpay” for him.

    The Happ trade was terrible – build up all these prospects then trade a bunch away for a mediocre pitcher who will be lucky to be league average while making decent money.

    Player Development
    Lets face it the Jays are horrible. Proffesional baseball players come through their system into the big leagues and make baserunning and fielding mistakes that a pee wee coach would bench his house league team players for making. Lets run home with bases loaded with star hitter up – what is a cutoff man?? The same teams every year produce these stellar players onto their team that weren’t drafted high but step in as a solid polished regular – Boston, Yankees, Cardinals etc. The Jays on the other hand bring up a 21 year old pitcher nowhere close to being ready for the majors to get blasted in one start and take up a 40 man roster position then send him back to the minors (Nolin). They bring up a 21 year old for the rotation when they only have 2 developed pitches and will undobutedly be mediocre (Alverez). Throughout their history they try to save money by bringing pitchers up before they are ready at league minimum salary. But in reality they are just ensuring that the years these guys pitch for league minimum are bound to be mediocre and once they are good they are FA unless they blow out their arms first under the strain of MLB (Litsch, Chacin, McGowen), How about signing a mediocre vet for cheap as a stop gap then bringing these guys up when they are developed and getting solid performances at league minimum? Then maybe you have 2-3 solid SP at league minimum and can afford to break the bank on an ace to compliment them. Or how about hiring some decent coaches for development like aforementioned teams? Is that not an increadible market inefficiency – how much of these instructors make compared to the millions of dollars the players make – I dont know but is obviously a drop in the bucket. Go out and sign 20 of the top 40 instructors to 10 year contracts for triple the regular salary and maybe some of these high draft picks they had may actually be good solid polished players when they get to the big leagues and may be able to actually be polished at an early age (wacha, rothenthal etc). But the draft is a crapshoot right. Give me a break. Farrell says it flat out after leaving, the jays are horrible at player development they just try to scout well then consider a player developing into something good is a crapshoot. And everyone shits on Farrell what does he know he is only one of the most respected and accomplished player development people in baseball.

    • Holy fuck son. Save something for your second post.

    • Uhm…wow.

    • +1 for the longest rant this offseason by a new poster. welcome to the board.

      I do agree that the Jays weakness in player development is the achilles heal for the organization.

      The only alternatives are free agency, which the team is reluctant to do & free agents are generally not eager to come to Toronto and play on turf etc..

      I agree that Mccann would have been a great addition to th team. He wan’t that expensive..

      The loss of Yan Gomes as a throw in a trade was a disaster but those things happen.

      The Jays gave up on a solid 2B in Aaron Hill. It’s ben downhill ever since, but Goins could be OK defensively

    • Take your meds.

      • I wonder if this is what it would look like if Pat Tabler finally snapped on air?

      • Ha I don’t need any meds. Can’t a fan rant? Stoeten makes a living at it and years of reading him has inspired me. Some good questions in that novel though

    • If that’s what you call support for AA (albeit wavering), I can’t wait for your post when you finally jump (or are pushed) out of the boat.

      • I could have a longer positive rant about AA and am actually super optimistic about the team. They have a chance to contend if all breaks well. McCann would have solidified it. No offers made yet. How do you at not at least make an offer to him?

    • Quite a bit of steam coming off this pile.

      I wasn’t going to comment but I really dislike one silly argument that get’s thrown out there that you have managed to regurgitate anally in your coiling rant:

      “unless they blow out their arms first under the strain of MLB (Litsch, Chacin, McGowen)”

      Guys don’t blow out their arms from being promoted quickly. Once they pitch in a ML park gravity, friction and torque don’t suddenly intensify. You could in theory damage a young pitchers confidence if he comes up early and get’s batted around but his ego isn’t connected to his elbow.

      • Lots of steam but I don’t think a pile. Yes there may not be much merit in that particular argument. Give a guy a break lots of legitimate points in that unreviewed by poster novel length rant. Half of the rant was about the pile there is in conventional media and the thoughts of lots of the fans I’ve seen.

        • Well I’ll give you that your comment is passion laced, and that there could be an issue in player development but the criticism of the Florida trade and of AA himself is unfair.

          The 13 Jays were an average team at best but the performance of Buehrle and Reyes when healthy were as expected. Bonifacio was dogshit but miraculously was fantastic for the Royals. So the talent we received was quite good.

          Happ – we really didn’t lose very much in that trade. AA and his scouts must have believed that he was going to be an improving young lefty. Even if AA knew exactly what he was getting, what did he really give up. None of those pr(su)spects are being labeled as difference makers.

          Colby was a good trade regardless of LaRussa’s resume or World Series. Cardinals were going to win with or without Rzepchynski and Dotel (IMHO), they were talent loaded and Carpenter was a beast.
          You come to some wild conclusions on why AA hasn’t resigned him or why Colby won’t resign.

          Yunel Escobar is a festering cold sore.

          I love the enthusiasm but much of the criticism seems unwarranted or unfair.
          Should we demand more of this team? Of course, but going into ’13, I, like many believed that Anthopolous had built a winner. If you take the few minutes to think back truthfully, I bet you had thought the same last January.

          • Complety agree I said I liked the trade from jays side and am optimistic about the upcoming season with no additions even. The team can contend now which is great

            How is moving lawrie to second idiotic? There are less quality second basemen in MLB plain and simple and Lawrie would be plus defence there. Lots of fa of you maybe sign and move Joey bats to three giving solid lineup

            I am not saying I didn’t like the rasmus trade just the perception that it was such a steal and the comments and articles about how the cardinals got fleeced. And no the cardinals would not have made the playoffs if not for the trade. It was a good trade for both teams.

            I didn’t annoint Escobar anything but a top ten ss Is he not? Not saying he’s top 5 likely more like 10 overall. That with Reyes at second is top caliber middle infield. Ask the jays what they thought of their 2b play and compare with Tampa response about Escobar

            With the happ trade was terrible since they built up the draft picks drafted guys with them then shipped them off a year later for happ. Point isn’t how good they were at trade time point is they got little out of those picks and didn’t have the ability to develop them. Gave up on them. Other teams do develop players and they win frequently

            • I didn’t comment on Lawrie moving to second, that was someone else. But since you brought it up….. though it may look good on paper having a middle infielder with above average offensive skills at 2-bag, Lawrie struggled with it in the minors. I don’t mind the idea of him at two but he’s already shown himself to be all-star defensively at third. I am also on the record as saying he’s going to improve astronomically in 14 and be the top WAR producer at third. (this is partially based on me being a complete Jays Homer but more based on believing in what I’ve seen in his swing and leather) So, I think a kid who was an absolute thief with the glove and who was finally living up to the hype in his bat near the end of the season should be left alone. Heaping another position change on him seems cruel and unusual.

              Escobar – I’m not questioning his talent, just his personality. There are many, including the writer of this blog who say that those kinds of things don’t matter. I disagree.
              You should like the guys you cheer for. Otherwise, it’s as Seinfeld said, you’re just cheering for a jersey.

              Yunel is a douchebag. That may not matter to you but it does to me, I’m glad he’s gone.

              • I agree that you dont want diuchebags. I don’t Agree that yunel is a douchbag from anything I can gather objectively

                Moving lawrie to 2 is a bit of a risk to screw him up yes. Never should have moved him off it to begin with. He has played more two than three though and is still young. I think he would be very solid def 2b above ave. And I don’t think he will ever lead 3b in war his entire career. Lots of 2b could be great def 3b but more valuable at 2

          • Never offered any suggestions as to why Rasmus hasn’t been resigned much less Wild conclusions. I said he wasn’t resigned and is likely to walk which is true. I indirectly proposed that it will be said it is overpaying to pay a guy 85 to 100 million for 5 years which is likely the type of deal he will be commanding if he does well next year which I think he will. Right now he would want that. And I don’t think the jays will sign him to that deal based on the track record.

            Jackson was the big piece in the Rasmus deal and was big for cardinals. Dotrl and zep also stabilized pen as a bonus. Was a brilliant trade for cardinals propelling them to incredible late season run to playoffs then world series. At the time and even since jays circles talking about what a steal it was. Yes was good move for jays very creative by aa getting Jackson then flipping him.. Was great move for cardinals. Rasmus wouldn’t even have strarted on their team in the years after. Jays circles still praising Trade after Rasmus tanks

            You say Escobar is a festering sore when he is clearly way better than the jays second basemen last year and there are no indications any of the players dislike him at all his personality is a fun loving guy.

            You likely think Barry bonds shouldn’t be in the hall of fame

            You bash my logic and conclusions while what you say isn’t even a valid statement or counter argument given what I had said

            When did I ever say I didn’t think aa has built a winner? I didn’t say that you have assumed that. I don’t think that at all. He has built a winner I thought it then and think it now and have in between. And McCann was the move now to go over the top and be a serious contender. And there are specific things that could help the chances of success better which aren’t being done

            Instead of considering the points presented you were disillusioned from focussing on the passion and cynicism and critisism

            Had I made the same points in point form you would have had entirely different perception. Had Escobar not had the eye black or sometimes seem lazadaxical and the media hadn’t shat on him you would see him for the stellar defensive anchor ss who hits well and is a nice fun loving guy who gets along with people that he is. Certainly seems that way from objective stsndpoint

            Does Anyone who constantly dismisses player with high babip or p with low one realize the fundamental goal when batting is to hit the ball hard somewhere and pitching to stop the batter from hitting it hard. So they do good one year then bad the next and reasoning is they were lucky last year just more balls found holes. A smsll sple size these 600 at bats. 600 is a small sample!!!!! Maybe they did better because they were successful in achieving the fundsmentsl task required more often? Obviously a significant potential variable is They hit the ball harder which led to more hits or pitched better which led to less hard hits against them. A ton of analysis based on this reverence to it being lucky that when you hit the ball you more often get a hit than somebody else or some other season of yours. Lots of pro analysts that isn’t necessarily true

            • I disliked Yunel long before the Eye Black and in truth, it has little to do with why I dislike him. For me it was watching him mope on the bench, his body language, his taking a day off with apparent “strains” after a bad day, it was the way he looked out of the corner of his eye at the camera when he made a mistake. Most of his shit seemed scripted like ARod.
              But my opinion of him doesn’t matter, Bobby Cox, on,e of the best managers in history was long considered a players manager and for him to find and state that Yunel is “uncoachable” is quite telling.

              • Couldnt agree more about cox reference. Uncoachable yes. Doesnt take things seriously yes. Douchebag a hole who his teammates hate and is bad for team chemistry no. I love cox he was the best ever and for the braves then yunel was likely bad when clashing with cox. Wasn’t the same situation in tor and he was producing. Trade for yunel was great trade for as. His best likely other than wells. Similar to Rasmussen but gave up less and yunel didn’t shit the bed when he got here

    • Holy fucking Tolstoy.
      Hope you managed to squeeze in a meal or two – or maybe a nap at some point in your treatise. Your kids are probably grown now.
      No way am I giving McCann 85M dollars over 7 years (or whatever it was)..the guy will be in his late 30′s by the time he’s done. Catchers don’t really age all that well…and at 12M a year, I expect a bit more than I think he’s going to be able to offer at that age.

      • Five year deal until he is 34. We are talking about an elite level player here. No way you do that? So we will try to win Replacement level catcher?

    • Nope.

    • Whole heartedly agree with your rant, in particular regarding moving Lawrie to 2nd and shifting Joey Bats to 3rd!…..

      Why does this idea get such little play? Seems to make sense while providing some stability in terms of direction.

      Save but the questions surrounding the catching nightmare an infield of 1B EE, 2B Lawrie, SS Reyes, and 3B Bautista should project to be at least average defensively while being above average offensively.

      Sign a veteran catcher to a deal no longer than 2 years. (AJ 1+1)

      Go aggressively after the “compensation free” FA pitchers hoping to sign two of Garza,(3years + an option?) Feldman ( 3 years + an option?) or Tanaka ($65M + $65M?…or whatever the posting fee need be, money which promises to be easy to recoup). If they can sign 2 FA pitchers offset the cost and trade Buerhle.

    • Love the passion.
      I hope it was cathartic for you.
      More than a little misguided in your thoughts and conclusions but damn, that’s one hell of an effort.
      Dunno if your looking for answers or a confirmation or a rebutal.
      I doubt Stoeten’s gonna take the time to respond unless he’s bored.
      McCann’s cost inhibits other potential moves and to override a 17 per year offer, IF he coulda been convinced to come here. It doesn’t make sense.
      Moving Lawrie to 2rd is idiotic. Sorry just idiotic.Don’t mean to hurt your feelings. Idiotic for many reasons.
      Guys who have had a proven track record in the majors are much more valuable than prospects. Yes the jump is that large. I get that Sanchez and Stroman look like they are keepers and that’s why it makes it tough.
      Read some of the reviews from Tampa before you annoint Escobar as the second coming.
      i could go on but I don’t want to make this comment too long.
      Love the passion but the rant doesn’t make a lot of sense ( to me at least).

      • McCann and him alone if that is all the budget the jays have is a better upgrade than getting any other position other than maybe cano who is mOre money or maybe tanaka. I’ll take McCann over garza Santana etc any day. Not like the jays depth is like last year With three MLB borderline p on dl all year. Pitching is solid as is. Good on AA strength of team is pitching depth. Have extra arms but with guys out of options not a bad position at all. Want another top of rotation of course but not more than all star catcher where weakest position on team is

        Yes they look like keepers and unlikely both will pan out to be solid sp. easily one could be above average and one average. How does the shark look? League average for two years that’s how.

        • What are you talking about, Samadizjia is and projects to be an above average pitcher.

          Same with garza, jiminez

    • Kid really blew his wad.

      I think he’ll make out fine on this site as long as he drinks and swears a little more.

      But Reyes at second and Escobar at short? Reyes would never do it.

    • You’ll realize soon, that talking to this very special group of people is a waste of time. Most of them just read the articles and agree. If you have anything to say other wise, they’ll debate pretty much everything that makes sense. Good post.

  15. 2 questions: Just wondering, how long did it take you to write that? Also, do you expect anyone to read that?

  16. Robinson Cano is a phenomenal player in all aspects of the game. He’s awesome but we can’t afford $300 MM. Fortunately for us, the Yankees are moving further away from being able to afford that amount as well. They signed McCann, and by the looks of it, will be losing their joint legal battle of MLB and NYY VS. Alex Rodriguez’ ego.

    The longer the FA talks continue the lower Cano’s price might have to go. Perhaps low enough that the Jays can actually begin considering him.

    I can’t believe that I’ve begun to think this, but I’m honestly at a point where I could part with Jose Reyes. While his bat is amazing for a short stop. I couldn’t handle watching him play defense last season. On numerous occasions I was shocked by how far Jose was from getting to routine ground balls. This commentary is strictly annecdotal but it seemed very real to me. If he was playing such poor D, was it a lack of range, reaction time or poor positioning? If this was actually happening, It’s entirely possible that this was due to correctable things such as:
    a.) poor infield shifts employed by the coaching staff
    b.) Jose playing on a still twisted ankle

    However, I must say that I did notice these missed plays pre-ankle injury, and didn’t notice them during Jose’s absence.

    I wouldn’t trade him just for the sake of a big splash. But the Jhonny Peralta signing suggests that there are not a lot of great short stop options out there. So maybe we’d be able to get some key pieces in the form of a sturdy catcher and/or true #3 starter. We could look for a modest return, in hopes of the receiving team taking on most or all of the $22 MM per year owed to Reyes over the next four years.

    Perhaps this would be enough relief to make it more legitimate to take a run at Cano. With Cano, we’d have a more complete hitter than Reyes with the option a finding a truly superior defensive short stop (no bat required…Goins or better, perhaps).

    Reyes is an amazing player, and in theory, my favourite Jay to watch, but there might be a few teams that agree with me, and would be willing to take his salary off our hands, while giving us some modest pieces back.

    It’s both crazy and a pipe dream that hinges on the extremely unlikely scenario of finding the right trading partner and Cano being convinced to come here without Reyes as his fielding partner, but I’d really be up for it.

    • I defintely think it was because of Reyes’s ankle injury, but I did notice it as well. Especially, in the friendly concrete confounds of the Dome, he seemed hesitant but hopefully after an extended break he comes back looking like he did in early 2013.

      Cano would be great but he’ll get his 10 years from the Yanks, not for $300 million but probably for somewhere around $240 million.

      • “However, I must say that I did notice these missed plays pre-ankle injury, and didn’t notice them during Jose’s absence.”
        Agree. Additionally I could’ve sworn I saw him give up on a few grounders than were catchable.

        • Reyes has always been below average ss and is only going to regress. Of course his bat more than makes up for it and he isn’t near enough of a liability def to not be able to stick there.

          • I wouldnt say “below average” and I suspect at 30 and on that turf it’s not easy. But there were a lot of grounders that he seemed to wave at when with a little more effort he could’ve snagged some of them. He, IMHO, is “average” defensively and has an great bat from both sides of the plate..

      • what you fail to mention is that using that sort of money on a 2B won’t improve our team enough.

        Pitching was our down fall. If they sign Cano they’d have to trade/sign 2 more starters for sure or else it just looks like an idiotic move

        • Pitching was our downfall last year. Doesnt mean it will be our downfall this year too. Pitching looks good as is. A catcher and either OF with joey to 3 / lawrie to 2 or a 2B is what this team needs. Frontline starter would obviously help too. Dont need more 3-5 starters, already have lots of those. No point to paying big money for #4 starter – filling out order will imporve team much more

          • Pitching does NOT look good as is. Fangraphs predicts one of our main pitchers to esmil rogers. I don’t know about you but that is not good. Another pitcher must be added.

            Sure a catcher must be added and argubly a second baseman but adding solid pitching depth is of great importance to this team.

            • Yes it is. Right behind catcher. Pitching is not great but is decent . Top three decent with one injury risk. Happ number five. Viable potential from several to be league average four or better. Many replacement level options as depth. Solid pen. The sky is not falling. Just like in 2007 or so jays projected to be horrible with several younger wildcards but they were very good. We shouldnt expect anyone to have 6+ era like Johnson did. Rogers is no starter on any team I don’t think. He is a replacement level option if it hits the fan. Obvious need for improvement. League average sp is not great. But we have worst catching likely in all MLB. Need a catcher most. Jays rumouted to have 15m to add to payroll. Get a catcher then little for sp. Trade for catcher costs less. Get hannigan he is decent catcher. I’d of loved McCann at expense of having league average sp. Then spend on top sp of you can. Or trade for solid pitcher not making lots after signing salty but cost is high. You can’t expect to win with Jp and thole at catcher I don’t think.

          • lol @ pitching looks good as is.

            seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you.

            The jays are going to spent 250+ on a second baseman and go in to the season with dickey,buerhle, as the only pitchers to have decent years last year and then pray to god that Morrow, Romero, Stroman, Happ or Rogers puts together 180 innings of solid ball.

            That’s a ridiculous assumption to make, add to the fact that it costs you 250 million to gamble it and its just plain fucking dumb

    • Jose’s ankle was the problem.
      One of the best lead off’s in the game.
      Nice rant, I disagree with your synopsis.

  17. Reyes will be a Jay for a long time.

  18. Does anyone know the process required to adjust outfield dimensions? Does a team apply to the league and have to provide legit reasoning?

    • The ‘Dome looks like it was built by the antagonists in 1984.

    • Why do you want to move the fences back? The jays have some of the best power in the league. They have historically and that is no coincidence. Gives them advantage. I say move them in. In three years when the team is blown up and rebuilding move them back again.

      • What? Where do you see me saying anything about moving fences back?

      • Now you’re full on crazy. Bring the fences in? My god and our pitchers weren’t having a hard enough time keeping those fly balls in the yard…

        • I suppose you didnt say move them back and I assumed that. Our power is better than most other teams so we have advantage at homer Dome. Their pitchers will igve up more jacks than ours. Dickey and Morrow not best fit for Dome.

          • Dude you just said it, 2/5 of our rotation suffer badly from the long ball. Bringing in the fences will only make it worse. I would imagine Buehrle would get worse too. It is not a win win situation as you would think.

            • I said 2/5 of our rotation last year suffered from long ball. Johnson is gone so 1/5 now.

              • Dickey sufers from long ball the most, but Morrow and Buehrle can just as easily suffer from as do all pitchers. We are already a hitter friendly, we do not need to turn a pitchers wasteland

      • People, all he asked was “what’s the process?” There is no implicit “we should move the fences.” It’s just curiosity.

  19. I didn’t see this article up there and I agree with it.

    http://jaysjournal.com/2013/11/28/toronto-blue-jays-problem-not-pitching/

    We’ve got pitching–maybe not fabulous pitching but possibly-good-enough pitching. What we don’t have–and AA admitted it was an oversight–is good defence. The infield was shit for a huge part of the season. I’ll bet we lost more than a couple of games because of that. The outfield wasn’t wonderful either thanks to Melky’s back problems. And we all know how bad the catching was.

    • Ding ding ding. Need a quality catcher for sure. If its Hanigan then need to shore up 2B def and off. If it is salty then need 2B def for sure. If it were McCann could have searched for a weak hitter strong D to shore up inf/of.

      Speculated Hanigan / Phillips trade is exactly what the Jays need. And go get Salty on top of it and put JP in minors with Sal Fasano the coach to teach him how to catch. Fasano has potnetial for MLB manager.

    • If last years team had Buck and Escobar on it defence would have been much much better. Wouldnt have overcome the incredible amount of home runs Johnson and Dickey were surrending though. Big oversight by AA along with poor catcher and no fall back option.

      Reyes at 2. Reyes is below ave SS not good for TO with turf. Need a stellar def 2B to compensate – and not goins. This guy hasnt hit in minors. Comes up does OK for a couple weeks then tanks and next thing you know everyone says there is our starting 2B. If anything put goins at SS with reyes at 2 and PH for him later in game if trailing moving reyes to SS and izturis to 2. But in house solution is available anyway. Bats to 3, lawrie to 2 and could live with sierra/gose platoon in right. Get above average defensive C and jays D is solid. If only someone had taught Sierra how to field and Gose how to hit a cutoff man option would look even better.

      If Phillips and Hanigan are on the block try to make it happen without detracting from MLB team too much – maybe something with Jansenn and Sanchez as center pieces – Save Stroman he has better chance to help team during competitive window. Phillips is exactly what they need and fits in timeline perfectly with the veteran core – Reyes, Encarnacion and Bautista. Keep the AAA depth with Pillar, Wilson, Goins, Burns as not completely terrible options when someone goes down. This guy is perennial gold glover and hit clean up with 100RBI for playoff contender – as a top def 2B. I love Reyes but Phillips is more valuable overall player, especially for Jays on turf.

      • “Bats to 3, lawrie to 2″
        Please no..

        • Why not? This is the obvious solution. People are saying this is just idiotic etc. Why? Because it makes total sense? You saying Lawrie wouldnt be good at 2 or Jose at 3? Whats the problem?

          • It’s me that told you it was idiotic.
            I’m trying to avoid a long drawn out comment.
            Lawrie’s been tried at 2B, both in the minors and at the major league level. In both situations, it hasn’t worked out. That’s a polite way of saying,he played like shit.
            Lawrie has the athletic ability but there is a learning curve. When he first started playing 3rd, he made many mistakes but he learned. His twitch muscles and reaction times are better suited for third.
            Using your logic ,why not put him in the catching postion?He’s played there before and would fill a major hole.So why not? Because his skill set is better suited for 3rd. He’s advanced his proficency and is getting better.And he’d need to learn a new postion from scratch, and that would take years of mistakes.
            I’d rather have him as a human highlite reel at 3rd with elite defense than watching him take years to turn into an above average 2B.
            Baseball is hard enough.
            It isn’t some sort of xbox game.
            Leave Lawrie at 3rd, he’s still learning the postion and is about to get better.

            • Didn’t work out in the minors why? No reports of poor defence with Lawrie at 2b in minors that I have seen yet you say he played like shit. Was touted as strong defensive 2B all along from my memory. Look at the guys defensive prowess – he can play solid 2B. Way easier to play 3 than 2. It didnt work out in the minors because the Jays moved him to 3 in order to try to plug a hole on MLB roster. Didn’t work out in MLB because they moved him there mid season. Spring training is meant to get your reps.

              How is using my logic you put him at catcher? That is really funny.

              His skillset is best suited for 2nd where he has greatest potential to be of greatest value. Look at MLB 3B and tell me how many have Lawrie’s skill set? They are typically big guys with limited mobility and a power bat. He is not a prototypical 3B given his skillset he is a prototypical 2B with well above average offensive potential and above average D. At three he is average offensive potential and well above def potential. 2B defence much more important than 3B.

              Manny Mochado is better than Lawrie at 3. He will move to SS because he will be great there too and has more value there. Hardy is blocking him. Nobody is blocking Lawrie from his natural position.

              Learn a new position from scratch? He was a second baseman for years in the minors and was drafted and developed as one. He learned a new position from scratch when Jays moved him to 3B off his natural position and threw him in the fire in MLB shortly after as a short sighted move to plug at hole on MLB team. And we suffered through some mistakes with him at 3 because of it and his offence likely suffered while learning a new position while breaking into MLB.

              Before you go spouting something as being idiotic without justifying it consider your counter arguments. No you have not hurt my feelings at all rather made me chuckle. These are clearly idiotic counter arguments for the most part. Yes it isn’t ideal at this stage to have him move and a valid argument against it can be made. You have not done this but rather said things that dont make sense and are not true. Wasting his talent at 3 when you have problems at 2B is very very silly especially when you have option to move Jose to three which is a good idea to protect his health on top of everything.

              • You’d best do some reading before you spout off.
                Lawrie started as a catcher because it was the fastest way to the show. switched to 2nd where his defense sucked ( again read). Most experts projected him as an eventual corner outfielder.
                I’ve considered the counter arguments.
                So Lawrie was being developed as a 2B and when he played there this year,he looked like a fish out of water. And ST is supposed to prepare him for the season?
                Fuck off.
                Get your facts straight.

                • Ok now we are debating. I didn’t recall reports lawroe was weak at 2b.

                • Lawrie started as a catcher be able to make it to the majors faster?? Do I need to respond to that?

                  And oh sorry guys for debating baseball topics on a discussion thread. Continue to tell me to fuck off and idiotic and hate on me and you have had your fame and pluck a few things here and there to shit on while not replying to my rebuttals which are proving much of what you say to be silly. Who are those fifteen second baseman better than Phillips that make him below average? Who are 5? What teams have won with a shitty catcher? Why should we expect to win without a substantial upgrade at c? Other than my rant i am not being disrespectful simply stating opinion and debating yours. When I was proven wrong I said good point I didn’t realize that. Lawrie had bad reviews at 2b d.

                  • I said I admire your passion.
                    Don’t be surprised when somebody responds with passion.
                    It’s what’s done at DJF, we disagree,debate and argue. At some point, the logical conclusion comes out through consensus.
                    IMHO
                    Based on Lawries history, 2B isn’t an option.Yet you insist it’s a move that would be easy for him,in fact he’d be great and the teams defense would be better.Documented history tells us different.If you make a statement and are looking for confirmation or a debate be prepared to be questioned about it.

                • This guy gets offensive when he thinks he’s correct on an issue. The only one that should “fahk off” is you. You and another poster on here, are about as idiotic as they come. Where do you read your info? Or do you just know everything, Assclown?

                  • @ Jayzilla
                    Prove me wrong and make me look foolish.
                    Until then, well you know already.
                    Got a feeling people have told you that a few times.

      • The problem with putting Lawrie at 2nd and Bautista at 3rd is the very issue you are trying to fix. Their defense at the positions are worse then then they are at there current positions.

        Outfield defense is quite easy to fix, but infield defense is rather difficult. Well defense with with a good bat rather.

        Phillips is aging, had only one above average year, all other years were around average, and had a down year last year as well. Not to mention an expensive contract. I am not sure he is the answer to our problems that we would like.

        • What is better Defence overall for the team? Ill put my ranks out of 10 for each

          Jose RF 7
          Lawrie 3B 9
          Izturis 2B 6

          or

          Gose RF 8.5
          Jose 3B 7
          Lawrie 2B 8

          Goins is not an option at 2B. Not to mention the FA OF you can plug in for Gose.

          • Are you for real?

            • Yes I am and this is legitimate argument. People like to blast others but cant back it up with anything substantial

              • ” Ill put my ranks out of 10 for each”

                Cool,nice to have a major league scout in attendace.
                Most scouts use the 20-80 scale but I understand you’re a rebel.

                “People like to blast others but cant back it up with anything substantial”
                Pot meet kettle.

                :

                • That’s right, you’re the only one that really knows anything about the Jays, you social Jays reject, you probably go to the games by yourself. Drink another beer.

              • I don’t agree in moving Lawrie to second, but I am sad to see so many people give you a hard time over this.

          • “What is better Defence overall for the team? Ill put my ranks out of 10 for each
            Jose RF 7
            Lawrie 3B 9
            Izturis 2B 6
            or
            Gose RF 8.5
            Jose 3B 7
            Lawrie 2B 8
            Goins is not an option at 2B. Not to mention the FA OF you can plug in for Gose.”

            >> You’re long-winded, but you’re also concussed if you think your #s out of 10 make any sense at all. Gose hasn’t proven himself at all as a hitter, and is a better CF, and you pencil him in to the lineup? You move to plus defenders to positions where they are not as good, in order to SHORE UP THE DEFENCE??? And yet you don’t want Goins at 2B, for defensive purposes, because his bat doesn’t play, but you put up with Gose, whose bat doesn’t play.

            That was a very quick 15mins of fame. Please crawl back under your bridge.

            • Goses bat is better than goins IMO and could marginally play in a platoon split. How does moving a cf with cannon arm and all accounts great defense to rf make him not a great rf? Rf is easier than cf by a long shot. Move Rasmussen there if you prefer and think hose is better cf. oh wait Rasmus would be a shitty rf since he is a cf

        • Phillips had one above average season!!!!!!! Now there is a statement!

          This guy has been top 5 second baseman his entire career. Arguably more distinguished career than Reyes, Bautista and Encarnacion in the same age group and less of an injury risk. Is controversial and the media paints a poor picture. There is an arugument he may not be best team guy.

          A down year!!!!- did you read the part about him being a 100RBI man batting cleanup for playoff contender? The jays havent seen that production at 2B since Alomar other than one year of Hill. And he may even be more productive than Alomar was that is debatable.

          Middle of the order second basemen dont grow on trees and to be perennial gold glove to boot is truly impressive. Who else is in this league other than Cano and Pedroia? Some decent second tier guys like Kipnis, Kendrick, Zobrist etc. They are not in the same league as Phillips

          • Dude, phillips is not that good. His WRC had one great year, the rest are around average or below like last year. If he were really as good as you say, why would the Red’s be rumoured to ship him when they have no obvious replacement? Thank about that for a second.

            • Around average compared to what? The average MLB player? The average second baseman has nowhere near average stats. That is the point. Name 15 second starting second baseman who were better than Phillips last year. Name 5.

              Reds are shipping him because of off the filed/ attitude.

              Alomar yes is a stretch likely but they are both first class second baseman. Is less of a stretch than saying Phillips has had one above average season by a long shot.

            • Not that good? But ten time better than what we saw last year, another comment from the monkey section. Drinking has done a number on your brain cells.

          • “did you read the part about him being a 100RBI man batting cleanup for playoff contender?”
            You should have a look at who was batting in front of him last season.

            “he may even be more productive than Alomar was that is debatable.”
            Are you for fucking real?

            • I guess the playoff caliber team with solid offence just put him in clean up for shits and giggles.

              Add him and you have the potential all star at every position situation AA has been preaching other than catcher. Cabrera a stretch as well and Lawrie to some degree too but both are solid or at least we hope Cabrera is. Is it worth it at expense of no more SP – debatable. Phillips and Hannigan Vs Shark is no brainer though. Phillips Hanigan Vs Garza / Tanaka, maybe Santana Jiminez is debatable and if it means no catcher is not the best idea

              • Dude, if you actually looked at the Red’s lineup, you would see why…

                and why can’t we have all of those? Ok second baseman, ok catcher, decent pitching, decent defense? You’re acting like us aquiring a #3 starter will destroy our team and our offseason.

                • Not at all. Not upgrading catcher will destroy our offseason

                • Yes I know the reds offence. They had four studs three mediocre and a 200 good dfence catcher who was great backup for their hyped young catcher who struggled to meet expectations somewhat not like jp mind you. And they made the playoffs no? 12th In runs in MLB third in nl. Sounds like good offence to me. Offence was good enough to win supported heavily by their all star clean up second baseman.

    • While I somewhat agree with the article, the problem is infield defense in only going to improve the pitching so much, maybe like normalize the BABIP of pitchers, which was occuring over the course of the season anyways.

      We have a large amount of pitching depth thanks to the emergence of stroman and tommy john pitchers returning from the dead. However that pitching depth is #5 starter quality. You cannot count on them to have higher upside this year. A clear upgrade with a durable pitcher with upside as a #3 or even #2 starter would do wonders to stabilize our rotation.

      • Defence is very important and the Jays have big holes. Biggest weakness of the team right now. Offence is solid pitching is solid but maybe not spectacular. Improving the weaknesses makes way bigger gains than marginal upgrades elsewhere. This is why trades are good for both teams.

        The Shark is not a stabalizer of rotation and better off trying to get a 2B or C instead in trade. Any true frontline starter is too expensive in a trade and would decimate farm or take away from offence / defence. Garza and Tanaka are the only legitimate options for frontline starters to stabalize rotation. Get one of them if that is option to improve team – I am on board. Not at expense of no catcher though. Catcher defence very important and huge hole on team.

      • Drabek, Hutch, Stroman all have upside to be better than #5 starter this year. Unlikely but even Romero has that upside potential. Throw in Happ, Perez, Redmond, Jenkins and maybe a scrap heap bounce back candidate or two as mediocre #5 options on top of #5 options to move McGowen, Cecil and Rogers to rotation and you have average top three in Dickey, Buehrle and Morrow and a #5 in Happ. 3 guys with #3 upside and 5+ with #5 calibre. An ace is what is needed not a durable guy with #3 upside we have lots of those types. Garza and Tanaka or only ones. Santana is a risk and money better spent improving glaring weaknesses.

        • Dude stop, we have a quantity of replacement level pitchers, not quality.

          -Stroman’s ceiling is a #3 starter, but if would be foolish to think he would achieve it this season
          -Cecil sucked as a starter, was good as a reliever, that is extremely volatile risk, not to mention he doesn’t have enough stamina now to take starting full time.
          -Oh mcgowan, such potential. He also has the health luck of a crappy gambler (which is the vast majority) so putting in the rotation? yeah ok there.
          -Rogers sucks in the rotation. He was good for some starts, he was terrible is the majority of others, do you NOT remember last year?
          -Happ’s upside is gone, he’s now an eternal 5th starter.
          -Perez = tommy john, next
          -Redmond, another 5th starter with not much higher upside, especially that he lives and dies with his fastball, are we seeing a trend here?
          -Jenkins is barely replacement level, if he was actually decent, why did we not put him in the rotation when he was healthy?
          -Hutch and drabek, these are ones with the best bet for upside with ok durability, but they were not pitching like allstars when they last pitched, it would again be foolish to think they would reach their full potential this year, especially after tommy john surgery.

          So you see, we have an amazing amount of depth, 5th starter depth that is. Sure some have upside potential, but it would be foolish to bank on them to reach it this year. This is why a solid #3 starter with upside would do us wonders. Because they are already #3’s, we don’t have to hope they will reach their potential.

          • We dont need the shark or someone of that ilk. They will not be a significant upgrade. We need a true ace frontline starter not a couple more mediocre guys

            • Yeah,let’s get Verlander or King Felix.
              Or maybe you’re in the Halladay camp?
              He’d return to what he was, wouldn’t he?
              Perhaps we all could go to the SP store and buy 4 or 5 of them?
              It’s the real world not a fantasy league.

              • You cant get them that is the point. I explicitly said ace is too expensive to trade for. A #3 would help but is not worth trading significant assets for. Shark is not even a reliable #3 he has a 4.5 ERA. Garza, Tanaka are best options. Santana, Jiminez riskier but could be solid. McCann would have been bigger upgrade for the team than those 2. The route for SP is not trade it is FA.

              • You must really know your stuff. LOL wow,
                The Jays have always been players when it comes to big names, Fahk off somewwhere puh lease!!

                • @ JZ
                  Guy is talkin about obtaining a #1.Tell me which teams are interested or rumored to be trading their #1 SP?
                  It’s one thing to speculate but let’s keep it in the realm of possiblity.
                  You can say the Jays should go get a #1. Ya it’d be great but from where do you get this #1?

            • Problem is a true ace is too expensive to obtain. On the market? Tanaka. But who will win the actual bid? Yankees or Dodgers, we won’t come close.

              Trade? Price but he costs and 2 arms and a leg, especially from within the division. Any other ace costs way to much through trade.

              Best bet is a trade for a #3 with upside, ie shark (a top 50 pitcher btw)

              Free agency has jiminez (top 40), Santana (top 50), Garza (top 60).
              Dickey and Buerle were both top 60 pitcher btw.

          • Yes we have great back end depth and 2-4 rotation in in Morrow Buehrle and Dickey. We need an ace not another #3. Most of all we need a catcher.

            • we don’t need to shoot for the moon, we need to shoot at a flying bird, at least we have a shot of hitting it.

          • Cecil doesn’t have enough stamina? You must be a Jays trainer? LOL, wow the BS that I read in this comment section is unreal. I don’t even half to read another sentence to know you must be in the “in” with the Jays.
            My point is, who knows what Cecil could do as a starter now that he’s figured some things out. Please no more dumb comments Dude!!!

            • @ Jayzilla
              “Cecil doesn’t have enough stamina? You must be a Jays trainer? ”
              Back at ya.
              You obviously know he can.
              Cecil was nearly out of baseball when his velocity dropped. Now it’s up again and had success as a reliever so he’s ready for the rotation?
              “My point is, who knows what Cecil could do as a starter now that he’s figured some things out. Please no more dumb comments ”
              Again, back at ya.
              Google “Verducci effect”
              There are better solutions than converting a good reliever an experimental possible starter.

    • I wouldn’t overstate defense as some kind of magic bullet that would instantly turn the Jays into contenders. That very article states that “If we can avoid the large amount of home runs we give up this is a contending team.”

      You can save runs with great infield defense, sure. But you could probably save more by adding more reliable MLB-ready pitching.

      Just last season the Tigers rotation put up ridiculous numbers with Cabrera and Fielder in the infield.

      • ^This

      • There are no magic bullets. Balance overall is key – Jays have weaknesses in defence that resolving can bring big gains. It is only two positions we are talking here not a big overhaul to make defence much better. Other area of need is an ace.

      • @ Jack

        Yup.
        How soon some forget tha SP struggles at the beginning of the year.( Is it still early?)
        How many times did the starter make it into the 7th inning?
        How many loses were due to the manger leaving them in becaus ethey were blowing up in te 2nd or third?
        Were the late season bullpen woes because of overwork earlier in the year?
        Defense will make the SP better but there’s a limit when balls are getting hammered all over the park.
        In the first half of the season,every starter got hit by the opposition.Some of it can be explained by injury.Does nobody remember the rotating of AAA pitchers that had to be inserted?
        Christ, we had to dip into the Yanks AAA system for a starter cause we ran out.
        Called up Nolin, and wasted an option for 2/3 of an inning.
        Some people need to get their head out of their ass.
        Yup defense woulda turned them all into Cy Young candidates.
        Fuck me gently.

        • This is not 2013. Why does what happened last year have such a predictive influence on what will happen this year? It is far from guaranteed things will be like last year. Before last year everyone was over hyping SP saying jays had one of the best rotations in the entire league. It is very similar now. We have solid pitchers. And if they falter we have some depth. We dont have to dip into yankees AAA for depth. We have it in house already. We dont have to trade 2 top 50 pitching prospects to get a guy with a 4.5 ERA and two years left before FA. If trading those assets need to get a true frontline starter like Price.

          • No one is saying we should trade sanchez or stroman for shark. We ahve all agreed that is too high a price. If we can get him on a lesser package, do it. Otherwise forget it and move onto a free agent pitcher.

            No one is saying we have no 5th starter depth. I just proved it to you below. All we’re saying is add one more pitcher to add stability. He doesnt have to be an ace, he just has to be good.

            Btw shark is good, just not great or amazing. He’s durable, throw heat, gets strikeouts, keeps his walks low, he just had some bad luck as evidenced by his FIP and xFIP. He was also the cubs best pitcher which isnt saying much but buehle was our best pitcher so yeah. With abit of luck he could turn into something quite amazing.

            • Id trade him for a smaller package of course. Wouldnt have Stroman or Sanchez in it. And wouldnt even want to trade any AAA depth at any position. If you could have a couple middle grade propsects and throw in a one or two mediocre potentially out of options guys like Rogers, Redmond, Happ then yes of course. Doesnt look like the cubs would take a package like that.

            • Because the up coming season isn’t make or break and we don’t need a solid 3 starter. Did you watch the same games as us last year? The Jays do not need youth at this timme, duh.

    • Did you guys not watch the same games as me last year?

      Jays ERA in the second inning was 10 something, and you guys are saying it was defense?

      We almost lead the lead in HR’s allowed, were near the bottom in strikeouts from starters, but again.. defense?

      anyone who thinks that the jays don’t need to drastically improve their rotation is a moron. I don’t know how else to put it. The defense in itself has already been improved as you have a healthy lawrie back at 3B, you don’t have bonafacio, and you hopefully will have a healthy Melky out in LF.

      • ^This

        People forget our defense was lacking last year because lawrie was injured from the get go, Melky had a tumor which wouldnt let him run, izturis and boneface were terrible subsititues and reyes got injured.

        I really don;t think AA would have thought izturis to have regressed that badly, or that boneface would forget how to play baseball.

      • “Did you guys not watch the same games as me last year?”

        Obviously not.

      • How did you feel about the rotation before last year?

        • It shoulda been great.Loved the rotation as it was set up last November.
          So did every fucking expert out there.
          So did every one here.
          So did Vegas ( where people put their money where their mouth is)

          Didn’t work out.
          Needs to be fixed.

          • Alright, alright, get off me guys

            • LOL
              For a first time poster,LGBJ has a lot to say.
              Musta been building up for a long time.
              Or maybe…..

              • I was thinking that his first post was like the first piss after drinking 4 or 5 beers. He broke the seal and now we’re all paying for it.

            • +1!

              I’m not saying we don’t need a starter if it’s possible to get a real difference-maker. But absent a sure thing we have a lot of 4ths and 5ths already and I don’t want to sacrifice a decent prospect or two for another dubious retread. The farm has already been thinned-out. Defence alone will not win games but it should help stanch the bleeding.

        • Obviously going in to 2013 there was a lot of hype about the team, and the rotation looked much improved, not great but better.

          Obviously losing Morrow for the year hurt, and hopefully he’ll be able to come back from his nerve issue. Buerhle and Dickey can essentially do what they did last year, perhaps Dickey gives up less HR’s though.

          The 4th and 5th spot need to be improved because our 1-3 of Morrow, Dickey,Buerhle is not a dominant 1-3…so with a good 4 and 5, you could have a solid rotation. Sure Stroman and Sanchez or Happ or fuck even Romero could step up and have a solid year, but are you will to take that chance in a critical year?

    • @Isabella I’m thinking AA may agree too. Either that or every deal he’s looked at up til now has not worked out.
      I think of the 2 positions Morten has declared as the most glaring weaknesses, catcher HAS to be the most serious. If JPA wasnt so terrible, the entire rotation would’ve been a lot better: If for no other reason than they would have had more confidence in their catcher. And IMO that would be in spite of their injuries.
      I would be fine with keeping the kids on the farm and going into 2014 with just upgrades at catcher and 2B and I’m not convinced Goins (or my fave Negrych) cant handle 2B.

  20. Couldn’t agree more, infield defence was pretty shady last year but was much better in Sept when Lawrie went back to 3B, we had a decent 2B and Reyes replaced Kawasaki.

    Infield defence really isn’t that important when your starters are constantly getting lit up in the 2nd inning and the bullpen is warming up before half the fucking fans have taken their seats.

    Starting pitching needs to be upgraded long before we worry about shoring up the defence, I personally think we need one more guy, and let the rest fight for that 5th spot, then address the defensive issues.

  21. For me, it begins and ends with starting pitching. Those guys, if they can’t get it going – it spreads to the bullpen, where you start blowing guys up from overuse…or your defense is being run ragged…and then you have to constantly play from behind. Bad starting pitching ruins everything.
    Conversely, good starting pitching makes everything easier…from the ‘pen, the defense and the hitters. You’re not constantly looking for a 4-spot inning just to keep the game close.

    • Agreed.

      Also, I don’t mind mortgaging the future re Stroman/ Sanchez. This team needs to make the playoffs before another rebuild.

    • I’m the mind that they just need to add one really good starter.

      Redmond/Rogers/Happ is reasonable for the 5th spot.

      There will be a decent stable of depth at AAA after the 3 headed 5th spot with Drabek, Hutch and one can hope Romero.

      Buehrle had fine year after that start in Tampa in May.

      Dickey was excellent at times. We can only hope that the back/neck thing is behind him.

      We all know what Morrow can do if healthy.

      I know that there is some “if’s” in what I’m saying, but they got a lot more pitching depth than last year to throw at the wall to see what sticks.

      I say make a play for one good starter, address C/2B/bench if they can with money and B prospects see what these guys can do in 2014.

      • +100.
        Get a decent starter (doesn’t have to be a star…but a decent guy) and then work on the catching situation. I know all the primo catchers are gone – and frankly, spending 10-plus M a year for a catcher who’s NOT Pudge is a little rich for my blood. The guys that are left are probably serviceable guys – not franchise cornerstone-types – which still makes them a head and shoulders improvement over JPA. Only question is – does JPA stay, and split the catching duties??
        Maybe AA can find a couple of bats for the bench, as well. It speaks volumes for the state of the team when you’re putting guys like Kawasaki or Itzuris at the plate when the bases are loaded.

    • @Fastball.

      That’s a great point about the negative impact that poor starting pitching has on the team in general, but the bullpen in particular.

      This makes it even more clear, that the Roger’s Centre is a huge disadvantage. The fast turf and short fences, limit the effectiveness of every starting pitcher in baseball. I used to think that this was fine, since it affects both teams evenly (perhaps even helped the Jays when opposing infielders had to learn to play the turf on the fly e.g. Giants last year), but that’s not the case. Our starters play 50% of their games in this offensive haven, while other teams play just a handful. This means that we’re seeing less innings from our starters and more innings from our bullpen arms. By the end of the season it would make sense that the bullpen is tired, thus less effective.

      It’s been discussed at length that we can’t move on this, but let’s see if we can ask Santa to move the fences back and create some sort of grass infield.

      • It is a great point and we do have some fly ball pitchers. Grass infield for sure is stivky point. could try to load up with gb pitchers and have advantage. But jays don’t have great mi either which hurts. But have power and bullpen in spades as advantage. isn’t the only offensive park in MLB and is opportunity to gain competitive edge with the right players. Yankees have for decades.

        Hentgan it seems may have really helped the pen keep the ball on the ground last year. I don’t know if he influenced anyone other than Rogers to throw some sink. Could be a keeper pitching coach. Eight man pen is good for that and will help with option pitchers. Bench doesn’t usually play except for injury three is enough. That’s where the proven durable 3 starter helps the most. I dont think samarjda is that could be but might be not so good. Jays have rubber armed dickey and buegrle to eat innings but maybe get lite up later in games like last year taking lumps when behind

      • You know…I’m not so much concerned about the home runs in Rogers Centre.
        The Jays have an offense, too – and with their lineup, should be able to at least be competitive in any run-fest.
        The problem isn’t so much the home run…it’s the walk and error and missed DP ahead of the blast. That’s what killed ‘em last year. Shitty pitching leading to walks, JPA mishandling balls that put runners in scoring position and crappy defense – all in front of the inevitable big hit that puts up crooked numbers on the scoreboard. It’s the long innings that kill the ‘pen and set the defense on their heels.
        I’ll take a couple of solo home runs in a game – that’s not a problem for me. It’s the 3 run blasts because of shitty pitching and 4-out innings that’ll kill ya..

  22. I wish DJF had an intern so we could have a new sheet of paper for the weekend.

  23. Brett Anderson a Blue Jay? Go!

  24. They need two fucking starters or they’ll be relying on a great deal of luck.
    Stop with this goddamn J.A. Happ, Redmond, Rogers horseshit. They suck.

    • Redmond was pretty good last year. Happ throws too many pitches. Rogers is OK swing man. These are all 5th starters.

  25. I just want to take this opportunity to say that I masterbate on my ball glove to keep the leather supple.

    • It must hurt if you also piss on your hands to harden the skin like Moises Alou, but each to his own.

      • I spit like a hissing Robbie Alomar cobra on my hands to instill greatness in them before I pick up my beer can.

        Then I drink like Mickey Mantle on Saturday night in Irish Bronx.

        • For your Friday night listening pleasure (possibly while you service both yourself and your favourite glove.)

          Tom Russell
          “The Kid From Spavinaw”

          http://youtu.be/_wD3bZc-24g

          • That was awesome, thanks.

            “When God starts throwing changeups, you can’t swing with fame or wealth,
            If I’d known I was gowin live this long I would have taken better care of myself.”

            Great line, sums up the Mick.

            Epitomizes the fans of this site, people who enjoy ball and the drink.

  26. Cool song. Really cool, made for a movie.

  27. Everybody get their FanPass re-up notices? I got a call this week – December 6 deadline. Wasn’t it a Feb deadline last year?

  28. Wow is it still Thursday? It feels like Saturday…

  29. I promise to not break the interwebs again.
    I promise to not break the interwebs again.
    I promise to not break the interwebs again….

  30. The Twins could get AJ. I wonder why AA hasn’t gone after AJ to upgrade the catcher position??

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/twins-making-progress-on-pierzynski-targeting-pelfrey.html

  31. Just to show how little Jays news there is out there.
    Item.
    KLaw blocks Griffin on twitter after Griffin calls him an ass for making insensitive comments about Paul Walker passing away.

    • You a closet Tweeter Radar?

      • I use it to gather info that may be breaking.
        I find there’s a lot of uninteresting stuff that’s tweeted.But then there’s a tweet that piques my interest.
        I find it amazing that some use twitter to value their own self worth.
        Somebody here,who a few years back and was trying to discredit the point I was making, said that you could measure the validity of a person’s opinion by the number of twitter followers and how many facebook friends they have.
        So his opinion was correct because he had more followers and friends than I.
        Mind blowing.
        Hard to believe but I don’t have much to say on twitter.
        I got 4 followers,used to have 5 but somebody unfollowed me.
        Took me 3 weeks to get over it.

        • Radar !

          Save yourself from further mind blowing.
          No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the masses.

          • “Think of how stupid the average person is, then remember that half of the population are more stupid than that.” (George Carlin)

            “You can’t fix stupid.” (Ron White)

  32. Hello fellow fukstiks, especially my ol’ rockand roller small potatoes and the brilliant cogitater RADAR.
    Anyway, just got back from a week in the desert and catching up on the Jays news as I saw Fuck all while I was in our former AAA venue and now I know why-Fuck all is what is happening.
    I must admit I am still positive overall but as I have mentioned over the year we need improvements (obviously) and simply cannot come back with the same guys and expect overall better results and, I think, it would be an affront to the fans.
    So, putting some money, you know, where the ol mouth is, I put $45 on the Jays to win the WS at 45-1 and $5 to win the AL pennant at 20-1.
    So, a couple of things. Last year when I went I did not bet the Jays at8-1 after the trades as I felt coming off a crap season, betting at those lines was nuts and unfortunately they were crap as we know.
    I’m taking these odds now (45-1) as I think AA will do something in the next month and the odds will come down. Implicitly , Vegas is saying at the moment, that even if they win the pennant (20-1) they will be the dog in the WS, so instead of 40-1 you can get 45-1 a full 5 point freebee which won’t be available if they really do win the pennant. If they win the pennnant it will be because they have a tremendous year and may even be the favorite in the WS -who knows, so definitely worth taking the extra 5 points NOW!

    The reason I am a little more hopeful is that in LV some of the ball guys I talked to there basically think the JAYs stink and thus the good odds right now ( basically they are picked for last in their division everywhere) and I kept telling them, that they will not stand pat and to expect a major trade, as I still think Rasmus will be dealt and perhaps Buerhle as well, as I see a DJF posting also alluded to.
    Anyway I now have a monetary interest this year and am back in the boat. Who is joining me??

    • What’s the odds of anything happening before Xmas?
      I say the odds are pretty slim…judging by the dearth of any activity on the free-agent/trade front ANYWHERE in the MLB.

    • Putting odds out before the start of December can be a little risky for a book maker don’t you think?

    • Say who, say what, say where, say hey fukstik.

      No money to back it up, but I never left.
      Welcome back.
      Please check your boots for cow pats before you board.

      • Hey Spuds: Good advice as I have been known to be “out here in the fields” for awhile now. I’ve been fighting for my meals in a teenage wasteland.
        It;s been a little wet on the journey following that elusive hookah smoking caterpillar looking for the queen of hearts and magic mushrooms.
        Forward Soviet! Da da da.
        translated loosely is “let’s go Blue Jays”-More momo and soon AA.Now back to my merlot

  33. Anyone notice the curious arrival of LetsGoBJays and Stoetens’ silence? Is Stoeten just fucking with us with a dopey, verbose avatar?
    I’m just saying …

  34. Jays seriously need to hurry up and sign a catcher before all the good ones are locked down and signed. Also still have yet to make a move on the SP and /or 2B front! Maybe this blog can help answer some of those glaring questions: http://www.gcconnected.com/jays-continue-to-practice-patience-no-deals-or-key-signings-as-of-yet/

  35. Catching depth for AAA was out there, wish we had been proactive like the O’s who were in on Kottaras and eventually landed Monell. Now they have 5 guys battling to backup all-star Matt Wieters. We’re gonna get stuck with this guy…

    http://conferenceiii.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/5881505288_23eb298167_z.jpg

    • Mic him and I could live with that.

      Ham Porter: *play ball!* Hurry up, batter. This better be a short game, I gotta get home for lunch.
      [Pitcher pitches and the batter fails to even swing]
      Ham Porter: Haha, that’s one.
      [cuts to new pitch]
      Ham Porter: [to the batter] You know, if my dog was as ugly as you. I’d shave his butt and tell him to walk backwards.
      [cuts to new pitch]
      Ham Porter: Here it comes, it’s coming, I tell ya. *Strike three*
      [Porter puts the batter off, he swings and misses]
      Ham Porter: *You’re out!”
      [cuts to new pitch]
      Ham Porter: Is that your sister out there in left field, naked? She’s naked?
      Phillips: [swings and misses again] *Shut up Porter!*
      Ham Porter: Hey, hey, hey, I’m just trying to have a little friendly conversation, come on.
      [two seconds later]
      Ham Porter: Think she’ll go out with me?

  36. can someone explain why mlbtraderumors is reporting kc receiving serious trade offers for bonifacio be we took a ptbnl? I know once he left the turf he preformed like we’d hope, but damn.

  37. Blue Jays signing Dioner Navarro per Rosenthal

  38. Certainly has a Nights In White Satin feel around here, kind of quiet and muffled and never reaching the end. As opposed to the Magic Bus we all boarded last year which, unfortunately, hit a pothole and three of the wheels came off and left us going through the desert on a horse with no name.

  39. Jays to sign Navarro says MLBTR

  40. Yep. It’s a start.

    For sale on the .99c discount shelf: a durable catcher who doesn’t get injured much and hits at least 20 home runs a year. He comes with valuable experience in the AL East and is a very dedicated and teachable young man.

    (Maybe that last part of the ad is over-guilding the lily…)

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