anderson

There has been all kinds of movement today, as the league continues to waken from its Thanksgiving slumber, with the Rays, Reds and Diamondbacks working on a three-way deal that will send potential Jays target Ryan Hanigan to Tampa. There has been a deal involving Oakland, as the A’s have acquired Craig Gentry and Josh Lindblom for Michael Choice and Chris Bostick, which follows last night’s A’s acquisition of Baltimore closer Jim Johnson in exchange for Jemile Weeks– another player who the Jays, with their thinness up the middle, could very possibly have been interested in.

And Billy Beane isn’t necessarily done, with all kinds of rumours out there involving Brett Anderson– the oft-injured pitcher who we’ve heard about the Jays chasing for a couple years now, as I noted yesterday.

MLBTR is on it, suggesting that Cleveland and Seattle are interested in obtaining the now-surplus member of the A’s rotation, while Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle lays this one on us:

There is lot to like about Anderson as a pitcher– though Drew can still find some fault– and not a lot to like about a guy who has made just 24 starts over the last three seasons (and just 43 over the last four), but still… it’s not an idea worth hating until we actually see what the cost might be.

I know, I know, everybody wants durability and reliability, but you know what? The Jays have some depth– certainly more than last year– and at the right price, adding talent is never a bad thing. Relying on the unreliable is a tough row to hoe, for sure, but just having the a talented arm like Anderson’s around, for whatever gravy you’re able to skim off it? I could be sold on that, if we’re talking gravy prices, and not ones for the… uh… whole pile of meat. Y’know?

I’d elaborate but I’ve got a podcast to do! (No, really.)

Comments (134)

  1. I liked the idea of getting anderson on the cheap. However, Id still like to see them sign a garza to add more depth to the rotation in the event morrow and anderson inevitably get hurt.

    • Cut the inevitable crap with Morrow. He’s had different injuries for different reasons, and hasn’t even missed that much time, excepting last year.

      • Two seasons in a row hes missed significant time due to injury. Also, thats the problem, he is always injured for different reasons (oblique, shoulder etc). He is injury prone and its not crap.

        • He’s as injury prone as Bucholz so no, it isnt inevitable he will be injured. Saying that you would like Garza as insurance period would be enough.

          • Garza has spent just as much time on DL as Morrow, what are you guys even talking about? You know that Garza is looking for a boat load of money right? Absolutely ZERO chance in hell, and I mean a giant zero that AA spends that kind of money on a pitcher with past injury problems. AA is on a warm seat and his tenure has been plagued by significant injuries. Do you guys really believe he is going to go to Rogers for a boat load of cash after all that?

            My opinion? there will be a trade for Samardjiza and / or Anderson and if there is a free agent pitcher coming in it will not be one of the top 5.

            • Shark and Anderson can not be put on the same level in terms of value…..

              • Thanks tips, I wasn’t suggesting that they were. I was simply noting the two guys tied to the jays rumour wise.

            • I personally don’t want garza, but he is be best freee agent pitcher that that doesnt require draft pick compensation (besides AJ Burnett HA). But saying AA does not have the money to spend on a good free agent pitcher, how do you know? We don’t know anything at this point of time, anything is really possible. Nothing is a zero, it was only last year we traded for Reyes and almsot doubled our payroll after all.

              • I would much rather Burnett right now. He’s been healthy and he would cost about 1/3 of the price.

                • Aj would be great to have back, i really liked watching him pitch her. but sadly it doesn’t look like anyone has a shot at him. He would cost 20mil on the open market this year, easy. Garza i would say about the same.

                  • I disagree, if he could really command that kind of money, then why wouldnt the pirates give him a qualifying offer?

                • Burnett was a DISASTER in the AL east. Wouldnt touch him with a 10ft pole.

  2. …but AA said he wanted to weigh health risk more this time around.

  3. Someone has to keep McGowan company on all those rehab assignments.

  4. This offseason has been pretty frustrating so far. As noted above weeks and hannigan made a lot of sense. The fister trade is a bit of a heartbreaker. Kazmir seems like a decent deal. Obviously the offseason is just beginning. There are still lots of deals to make. They just seem a bit too obsessed with avoiding FA contracts.

    • all of the goof FA pitchers are still available.. do you maybe want to wait until their not to start making judgements on whether or not AA is afraid FA contracts?

      • So many goofs…

      • Fair enough. But this is also based on the last few years. IE trading for happ and rogers rather than just paying low end free agents. I get the strategy and the potential upside in both those moves. Sometimes it just seems like the jays are always trying to get these home run type trades when they could overpay a bit and get solid production. Like a said, there is a lot of offseason left and they can still make the changes that need to be made. The indians and red sox demonstrated that smart FA signings can pay off big as well.

        Also i really had a nerdon for hannigan. It seems to me a great defensive catcher could have really helped some of toronto’s starters.

    • The only thing they’ve really done so far is replace Arencibia with Navarro. I don’t know how you can find that frustrating since we haven’t even hit the winter meetings yet.

      I don’t think they’re obsessed with avoiding free agents. I think they’re obsessed with making smart financial investments. They didn’t avoid Navarro simply because he was a free agent… they signed him because the potential value he brings back outweighs what he cost.

    • I think we should be excited how this offseason has played out so far. Think about it, most the middle of the rotation, cheapish cost pitchers are off the table already. AA might be holding out for better. I prefer that to signing some of these guys and trying to sell us on them as the answer.

      Now, if the offseason ends and we haven’t landed anybody that improves the team, then I’m with you. But we need to have some patience right now. The Jays haven’t missed out on any difference making pitchers yet (assuming Fister wasn’t made available to them and JJ doesn’t bounce back, if those assumptions are wrong….ouch).

  5. Re : “some depth– certainly more than last year”

    It’s more than some, they have plenty.

    Found- Redmond and Rogers

    Healed -Hutch and Drabek,

    Development Path -Stroman, Sanchez and Nolin

    • Which is why I don’t understand going after anyone except for a healthy, top (or top half) of the rotation starter.

      In fact I would settle for clear upgrades at C and 2B and then wait until the trade deadline to see if we even need more pitching, see if we’re close enough to give up pieces for extra help.

      • Healthy top of the rotation guys are either very expensive in both $ and years, or not available.

        Gambling on Anderson is hedged by the org depth at starter.

        It’s better value. The saving from that can go towards 2B or other needs.

      • That’s why you’re sitting on your couch in the basement, and not making executive decisions for a baseball team.

        • Great point but I’m going to have to go ahead and strongly disagree. Don’t you recognize a futon when you see one? Apparently not. And anyway, it’s a second-floor apartment.

  6. Dodgers are getting more desperate to dump an outfielder.
    I’m crossing my testicles that AA can get Kemp.

    • were would you put him?
      pay milky 9mil to sit on the bench? are we the angels now?

      • Melky DH? lol if you get kemp for a low cost you might as well run him out there.

      • If the Jays could get Kemp I would move Bautista for a starter. Get a little younger without a drop off talent wise.

        • How about no, the Kemp right now is a shadow of his former self. If by some miracle we get kemp for nothing, theres no way I would trade bautista. What if kemp continues to suck? you stuck with a lousy contract and no bat to replace the one you just traded away.

          If you keep both Bautsita and kemp though you ahve the floor of a terrible conract and good bat in bautista. Your ceiing is the best outfile din the majors. All about minimizing risk with an amazing ceiling.

    • Pass. Colby’s fine in center and for $21 million you get a great starter and have enough left for a real second baseman that can field and hit, all without having to give up anyone. With Kemp’s shoulder injury and major power outage last year, there’s a ton of risk there.

  7. Susan Slusser. I hope she doesn’t lisp

  8. if its cheap, cool
    but hes not worth much in a trade.

  9. AA loves to lie, just like he said the cost for Hanigan was obscene when really it would have just cost him one of his beloved relievers.

    • When did AA ever say Hanigan would be too high. I think the general consensus was it might be high for a defense first catcher.

  10. I’m a huge Anderson fan… I think he has ace potential if he gets healthy… for me, the jays are in position where they can swing for the fences in terms of the rotation. if they traded for Anderson they would have happ, stroman, drabek, hutch, nolin, rogers, redmond etc. competing for the fifth spot. in other words, they are not running out ramon ortiz if a few guys get hurt.

  11. This sentence is from a Fangraphs article yesterday,
    and it applies a potential Anderson acquisition.

    “Betting on talent over health doesn’t always work, and when it doesn’t, you pay a lot of money to watch a guy rehab. But given the choice, Billy Beane and his staff clearly prefer to pay for broken players who are good when they aren’t broken, and it’s worked out pretty well for them over the last few years.”

    If AA is thinking Anderson, it seems like this is the kind of move
    he has in mind. There is no doubting Anderson’s upside.
    Full Fangraphs article is here:
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/as-add-scott-kazmir-keep-doing-as-things/

    • I think Bily Beane knows that it’s time to cut ties and that scares the f**k out of me. You know, if we are in fact “infatuated” with BA.

      • agreed. if billy has given up, using the same strategy, then wtf? they will be deciding that he’s not good enough for their rotation, or too risk even for billy

    • The only thing that worries me about this is that AA would be getting the kind of guy that Billy Beane has made hay on from Billy Beane. That may not work out so swell.

  12. You know what’s ridiculous? Brett Anderson is three months younger than Kyle Drabek.

  13. Anderson doesn’t scream ‘Plan the parade route!’ Sometimes AA’s plan seems awfully ad hoc.

    • It’s not that he is ad hoc, rather he plays to market efficiencies. The market is a constantly evolving space.

      It may not be glamorous every off season, but it will pay off in the long run.

      That’s his style.

    • he has, imo, the best slider in baseball (anderson). he’s a strikeout pitcher, and the kind you can reasonably expect to have success in the al east (when healthy).

      i like anderson a lot. that said, what is he going to cost in terms of prospects?

    • it only seems ad hoc because we’re not privy to the rest of their plan

  14. looked a little more into this
    Anderson posted 6plus ERA in Oakland
    thats a 8 plus at the skydome……

    no, no no no non onononononononononononon

    • What the hell are you talking about?

    • His FIP and xFIP 3.85 and 3.26 respectively. Probably a better indicator of his future performance then ERA.

    • Obviously the best way to analyze a player is based on his last 45 innings coming off a series of injuries.

      • in a pitcher friendly park??

        it sure is a big part of analiyzing a player if you ask me.

        he is an unproven arm

        not everyone recovers from Tommy John.

        just saying i wouldn’t give up a prospect for him right now.

        • we need to stop on the anderson talk, this is a bad idea
          he hasn’t pitched a full season in 4 years, and then he was just….ok, and that was before TJ.

          again i say

          no no no no no

        • So you’re going to complain about him allowing homeruns and ignore the fact that he’s one of the best groundball pitchers in the league?

          • did i say HRs?
            no
            but we are talking about a guy that can’t stay healthy

            ummmm, dont we already have that show?

    • What? 6+ era?

  15. I’m not against Anderson. But sometimes I worry that AA like his predecessor gets hung-up on players that he wants and can’t have and eventually gets them because no one else wants them.

  16. The slider is Brett Anderson’s most often thrown pitch. Human physiology suggests he might never be a durable pitcher with such an approach, and who’s to say he can be as successful without said approach.

    At 8 million for 1 year I’d take a flyer and hope for 100 good innings, but if the A’s are demanding more than a song and a prayer in return, I’d sour on negotiations very quickly. Massive, enormous injury risk and a not insignficiant salary. Sellers market or not, that screams buyer beware.

  17. 1) Sign Garza
    2) Trade for The Shark, Anderson or equivalent SP
    3) Trade Buehrle for Howie Kendrick
    4) Off-season over
    5) Plan the Parade

    • I’m on board with Kendrick, because there really isn’t anything much better available. Garza seems like a good option because it’s only money but there’s a chance his deal ends up being ridiculous. I’d hope they keep Buerhle but if he nets them Kendrick and the flexibility to replace him with someone else I’m on board. Also, I’m holding out hope that they take a flyer on Halladay for a one year deal. Obviously theres risk but it’d just be so awesome for the fans to have him back.

    • Shark and Anderson are not Equivalent at all

      Garza i like, but i like a certain soon to be FA starting pitcher who was 24-0 last year much much better.

      and i think everyone does, so until that happens, i think you will see slow movement from the Jays on pitching, if they lose out on the Masahiro Tanaka race, then i think we see a trade or FA pitcher added.

  18. Infatuated doesn’t seem like the right word here.

    • i pray to fuck this is just a silly rumor that started from nothing and ends with the same.

      Ill take him for cash, thats about it.

      we dont need another DL tripper in the depth pool.

      and i believe he is out of options….tried to find it, but couldn’t…..now if thats the case, we are going to carry him on the roster even if he hasn’t recovered from TJ and will not regain the 4plus (ugh) era he put up in his only full season the bigs? then what? send him down and risk losing him and whatever we paid for him…….god damn this sounds like such a bad idea it hurts my head.

      • please shut up about ERA like it matters in a 45 inning sample size coming back from a serious injury

        • was talking about 2009…..his only full season…….4plus ERA

          and yes, that does mater. but thanks

      • He has a 3.56 career FIP. That’s the same as what R.A. Dickey put up in his three awesome years with the Mets. It’s completely fair to question his health, but he’s been an excellent pitcher when he’s pitched.

        • i really dont think he has
          he pitch in one of the most pitcher friendly places on earth. and his only season we can hold to his true potential is 2009 when he pitched 4 plus in that park…

          we dont know if he can regain that……awesome level of pitching either.

          i am against taking on his contract, wasted money
          i am against taking on another DL bound starter
          i am against trading anything worth anything for him

          just think its a bad idea to waste money and talent and a roster spot on a maybe could be good player when we need a solid number 1-2 guy right now. We already have the maybe could be good pitchers, 5 or 6 of them really, do we need another?

          • Ok, and we all know how much ERA tells about a pitcher.

            How about FIP-, which is park adjusted? His career FIP- is 87. That’s right around the top 20-25 in the league since he made his debut, tied with guys like Madison Bumgarner and Matt Garza, right behind David Price and Cole Hamels.

            Again: when he’s pitched, he’s been very, very good.

            • Anderson has two seasons of an ERA+ over 145 (which is adjusted for league and park factors). Two seasons of an ERA+ just over 100 (108, 101).

              Home road splits aren’t bad at all. ERA is a bit higher 3.93 on the road vs 3.69 at home. FIP splits are nearly identical 3.58 vs 3.55.

              He gets a pretty high GB percentage – 57%, 59% and 62% over the last three years. In the homer dome that we call Rogers Centre, I would say that would be an asset.

          • Coach, I understand why you’re really negative about him. If we though JJ had injury flags, this guy screams it. However, when he is on, he is easliy an ace. He’s also a groundball pitcher so your argument about the coliseum is not as concrete as you think.

            But he’s a huge injury risk. I get it. I’m sure AA recognizes tis as well. If we take all of that salary, i’m sure Beane will take a low end prospect for him. That should be enough upside, especially if we replace anderson as our 5th.

  19. I mean I know Brett Anderson has an upside and I know he’s only 25 but am I the only one that looks at his numbers and just doesnt get very excited? Then you put those numbers beside one of the best pitcher’s parks in baseball and think about what they would look like at Rogers center…. hrmmm. There’s folks saying Anderson can be had on the cheap,, hrmm not really buying that either, I dont think Beane let’s him go for a song, it’ll be costly.

    • This is another issue, for sure– and the one that Drew’s tweet was getting at.

    • i am right there with you

    • I don’t think it will be that costly, though. He’s owed at least $9 million, has health concerns and isn’t penciled in to a spot in the starting rotation. I think a team like the A’s would be happy to have his contract off the books, especially now that they’ve added Johnson. Do you really think they can afford to have $19 million tied up in two relievers next year?

    • well yah if you completely ignore the context that he’s only 25 freaking years old you’re right his numbers aren’t that impressive.

      luckily GM’s do look at context, this guy has the arm and the stuff to get even better. Health is a big concern of course, but he’s young enough to over come that.

      A’s have taken on a lot of salary the last few days, which is unlike them, he won’t let Anderson go for free, but it’s not going to cost a top 10 prospect.

      I honestly think it would take a Drabek or another young controllable arm to get it done.

      • I wouldnt even trade Drabek for him.

        • drabek? for real?

          both are health risks… Anderson is a few months younger.

          Anderson:
          k rate: 7.13 / 9
          bb rate: 2.40 / 9
          gb rate: 54.9%

          drabek:
          k rate: 6.01 / 9
          bb rate: 5.79 / 9
          gb rate: 50.3%

    • anderson is easy to dream on… he is the rare combination of above average k and gb rates. he doesn’t walk a lot of guys. he passes the eye test for the scouting types, too.

      the ceiling is sky high. he just has never been healthy for long enough to get consistent results… and maybe he never will be… but damn, you want to be the team he lands with if he ever puts it all together.

  20. It’s interesting that J.weeks got moved already. You have to figure if AA was calling about anderson, weeks’ name would have come up. Especially since they traded him for a high leverage reliever. Seems to me the jays have a few high leverage relievers who are cheaper than johnson.

    • not sure that weeks is much of an upgrade from Goins? im not one of those ones in love with him, but he is a good defender, but if we can upgrade his bat, with someone who is also a plus defender, then great, but other then that, why trade for what we already have under cheap control.

      • Why does everybody think Goins is way better than he is because he hit OK in the first week of his call up? Goins has been a mediocre hitter throughout his minor league career. Weeks has shown much more potential and was not mediocre in any given season in the minors.

        By OPS

        Weeks
        2009 782 A / AA
        2010 752 AA
        2011 862 AAA in minors & 761 in MLB in 97 games (better than Goins ever had in MiLB season)
        2012 609 in MLB – sophmore slump
        2013 745 AAA

        So yes Weeks had digressed some in the past couple years

        Goins
        2009 603 in Rk/A
        2010 695 in A
        2011 745 in A
        2012 745 in AA
        2013 679 in AAA

        Goins has shown nothing to be considered serviceable in MLB.

  21. am i the only one that thinks AA is holding out for the Masahiro Tanaka bidding war?

    • Probably not the only one, but not one sentiment I share. I doubt we get him. None of the rumoured new bidding conditions will benefit the Jays.

      • the glass is half full my friend, that is until someone else drinks it on us, but until then……Masahiro has to be AAs top target imo.

        • If it was the method proposed a month ago ( 3 highest bids get to negotiate with free agent) Jays are shafted by dodger and yankees obviously wooing the pitcher unless they massively overpay.

          The recent rumour of the max bid and negotiateing rights going to the team with the lowest record, we are still shafted as many losing team re interesed in cano, and they would get the rights before we do cause we’re only 9th last.

          It’s not a favourable situation my friend. Good to dream though. Tanaka would be fantastic to have on our team next year.

  22. Anderson is a great idea. Him and Morrow can jack eachother off in Dunedin all season with their non pitching arms

  23. Rumour on twitter is that the Mariners just offered Cano 8/$200 million.

  24. fuck sakes some of you just don’t get it.

    Reality is if Brett Anderson was not battling injuries the last few years either the A’s wouldn’t be willing to part with him OR AA would have to pay through the roof for him.

    Now is a great time to bring him in, because we have some arms in our system to back him up if he does get injured again. You’d be pretty much getting him as a salary dump and if he does get injured insurance pays for a good portion of the salary anyways.

    I’m sure at this point you wouldn’t have to give up anything for him. I really hope this happens, because when he’s healthy he’s amazing.

    • Bingo

    • I agree with you, though until we know the actual cost, we won’t know if it’s worth it or not.

    • Totally agree. If he costs you something substantial you walk away – but if the A’s want to be rid of the salary the Jays are in a great position to spend a little money to potentially cash in on huge upside. If he’s hurt you cover your bases with younger pitching. Is it a gamble with Morrow also in the rotation? Sure, but one that could pay off hugely considering the price of equally talented FA pitching.

    • I agree that if you’re going to try and trade for a pitcher who has #2 stuff, Brett Anderson’s case is the time to do it.

      However, given how the Jays’ rotation is already surrounded with question marks and health concerns, I’m not so sure the Jays are in the position to take a gamble like that. I feel that they should be targeting someone who is more of a certainty.

    • ….or the A’s would think he was one of their top 5 starters, with control years left, and keep him

  25. “3:08pm: The Athletics aren’t going to trade Anderson today, tweets John Hickey of the Bay Area News Group (on Twitter). However, the A’s are seeking bullpen depth.”

    Bullpen depth, eh?

    Jansen/Delebar/Cecil and Nolin for Anderson, maybe? Nolin might be too much of a prospect for two years of Anderson. Maybe the Jays can trade two good relievers (Jansen and Wagner) and a prospect like Pompey for him.

    • They don’t need Janssen, they already have johnson. I would have to think someone like delabar might get the trade done no? Or is that wishful thinking there.

      • Wouldn’t happen straight up, just no way of that. Maybe a major league ready reliever and a mid tier prospect or two. Then again just depends on who else is offering up for him. If the Twins are involved they’ve certainly got the prospects.

  26. Now Bowden is saying Philips from the Reds will be traded between now and the end of the winter meetings.

    Not sure who I would take between Philips and Kendrick. Philips bat going the wrong way but he’s a better defender than Kendrick. Philips slightly more expensive.

    Man if you could flip Buehrle for something that the A’s would like in exchange for Anderson then turn around and trade for Kendrick or Philips you end up getting both for the price of Buehrle and some prospects.

    • Really don’t think the Jays can subtract from their rotation to address 2B.

      Even with Phillips at 2B, this team isn’t going to win unless they have a good rotation.

      • They wouldn’t be subtracting would they? They would add Anderson to replace him in that scenario. Leaving the Jays whatever money they have left to spend on a FA starter or two. Again just spit balling but it illustrates what you could do with the money the Jays will be paying Buehrle this coming season. You fill a huge hole at 2nd and replace Buehrle with someone of equal ability for a little more risk.

        Anyway I have a feeling Anderson cost is going to be crazy in the end. Sounds like an awful lot of teams are going to be in on him, just heard Yankees now, and you can bet that Beane will get all the value out of him and probably more once he’s finished.

        • But you dont trade Burhrle’s 200 IPs/year for Anderson’s 25 do you?

          • Yes because you know he’s going to pitch just 25. The Jays are probably in better shape going into this season to weather injuries to their starters than ever before with guys like Hutchison, Redmond, Rogers, Stroman, Nolin and Drabek. Again I’d only move Buehrle if I was guaranteed in getting a legit second baseman in a subsequent transaction. To me Anderson/Shark + decent 2b is better than the certainty of 200 ip out of Buehrle.

  27. Not sure that the A’s are going to need any of the Jays pen pieces now. Just traded Seth Smith for Gregerson.

    Man Beane is on fire.

  28. @JeffPassan: Sources: Yankees among many teams showing interest in A’s starter Brett Anderson. A’s likely to deal him at Winter Meetings.

  29. Can someone explain what is with the tigers, now signing nathan for 2-24 after dumping fielders salary. They could not have gotten a decent reliever with fister?

  30. Surprised that the A’s traded two of their top five prospects for Gentry, Lindbolm but they are going to have another year with a very good bullpen.
    Not sure what the market is for Anderson/ Lindbolm gets you Choice and another promising bat and Fister gets you one top prospect.

  31. how about Santana? thats the pitcher we need IMO.
    Halladay would be fun to.

  32. So…. i’m a huge Oakland fan (though i live in Ontario so i absorb lots of Blue Jay talk).

    What would you offer for Anderson?

    A’s fans are talking about building trades for big names like Bautista, Encarnacion, Lawrie…. any interest in Reddick, Callaspo….?

    Dunno about the whole “infatuation” thing with Anderson, but GMs have done some pretty silly things in the past that might be explained by infatuation….

    An

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