davidprice

There were a couple items that I figured came up too late last night for it to be worth making a post about them at that point, so I’ve saved them all for one big post here this morning. And… uh… this is that post.

Arencibia Almost A Ranger?

According to Rangers beat writer T.R. Sullivan, J.P. Arencibia was almost dealt to Texas in the hours before the non-tender deadline. He explains at his blog, Postcards From Elysian Fields:

A trade was close to being completed but the Rangers were reluctant to add another arbitration-eligible player. The Rangers were willing to do a trade if Arencibia was willing to agree to a contract that would have avoided arbitration. But it never got worked out and now Arencibia, who hit .194 last year, is another free agent under consideration.

If it isn’t entirely clear, here’s what happened: had they acquired the rights to Arencibia before the deadline with no contract in place, the Rangers would have had to then tender him a contract, and he would have still been eligible for arbitration. Since it’s projected he’ll earn about $2.8-million through the arbitration process, and since he’ll probably not get close to that much on the open market, Texas wanted to agree to terms first. The terms they were trying to get Arencibia and his agent to agree to, however, must have been a bit lower, in their view, than what he could command on the open market, so they didn’t feel it was in their interest to take the deal, and thus the trade was nixed.

Hard to blame Arencibia, but that’s too bad for the Jays.

Also of note in this: Jon Daniels is most certainly not a dumb GM. Make of that what you will.

Jays Interested In David Price?

Well, of course they are! Who wouldn’t be? But according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports, the club’s interest may not be limited to mere idle daydreaming about the Rays lefty ace.

Passan includes the Jays “among the teams that not only have an interest in Price but believe they can put together the sort of package to pry Price from the Rays, sources said.”

Both of those things, I’m sure, are true, but does that mean we should believe that there’s any there there?

Not according to the “generalities” Alex Anthopoulos gave when asked specifically about Price during the Fan 590 segment that I wrote about on Tuesday (in comments I didn’t include in the original post).

To wit:

I’m not allowed to talk about other players, but I can say that he’s great, and I think that any team can really upgrade with a front of the rotation starter. I can talk in general terms, saying, for the most part there’s a bit of a rule of thumb– I know we saw a trade between Oakland and the Rangers today, and it was a small type of deal, but for the most part GMs would rather, one) trade guys out of the division, if they can, two) trade them out of league if they can. I don’t know at the expense of not getting a great deal, but I think if it’s anywhere close, I think if trades are made, GMs would always rather not have to see a guy come back and haunt them in their division. So, not being specific about anybody you asked about, that probably gives you a little bit of a sense of, as player get moved, how things would work.

Hello, Mr. Thompson!

Posting System Changes As Expected

I wrote about the upcoming changes to the posting system last night, before they were made official, which it appears as though they have now been.

MLBTR lays out the details, largely from a Japan Times report. They add, “The Times report says the final details are being ironed out, but Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports spoke with a source who told him that if multiple teams submit the same bid, the player will be allowed to negotiate with all of those clubs. Only the signing club would be required to pay the posting fee, which still will not count against MLB’s luxury tax (the ensuing contract, of course, will count).”

Pretty much what we figured last night, then. Here’s what I said at that point (edited for concision):

Does this mean that the Tanaka dream– pipe-shaped as it may have been– is over for Jays fans? Not necessarily. In fact, it’s far more intact on the word of this news that it would have been had one of the other rumoured proposals been true– the one that had been going around that suggested the max-bid team with the lowest winning percentage the year before would get exclusive negotiating rights with the player. … Tanaka now … will simply be negotiated with like any other free agent– which is surely the fair way to do it anyway. That doesn’t put the Jays in as astronomically great a position as they would have been if they’d won the posting on Yu Darvish *COUGH*, but they still certainly could be suitors for him. In fact, if the Yankees are still concerned about their luxury tax issue, maybe it helps.

So… there’s that.

Toronto Sun Does Toronto Sun Things

And lastly we have the Toronto Sun, throwing gasoline on the moron fire– which, actually would seem to be their M.O. whether we’re talking about the sports pages or anything else– in a piece by Mike Rutsey that puts the most negative, panicky spin imaginable on comments from Alex Anthopoulos that are… basically not new in the slightest.

To wit:

Get ready to get bummed out.

There’s a possibility — a good one, in fact — that no significant pitching additions will be coming the Blue Jays’ way.

He goes on to say that Anthopoulos “set the bar low” in his chat with members of the local BBWAA when it came to the sorts of additions he thinks he’s going to be able to make. “To begin with,” he continues, “if help arrives at all, it will likely be in the form of one starter, not two.”

That’s interesting, I suppose– but since Anthopoulos said this week that Brandon Morrow feels 100% healthy, and since he was really high on Drew Hutchison, and since everyone seems to be high on Marcus Stroman, not entirely surprising, right?

“If the Blue Jays general manager can negotiate a trade — the free-agent route is weak and overpriced — it will not be a Clayton Kershaw, a Zack Greinke or a David Price. It won’t be a top of the rotation guy,” he continues. “If help arrives, it will be in the form of an upper middle arm, a solid and dependable arm that can give the Jays 190-plus innings and win 10-14 games.”

Uh… no shit, Sherlock! Isn’t this pretty much exactly what we’ve been thinking all along? Why the slant words to empower the darkest, dumbest thoughts of doom that are floating around out there here on December 5th, with so much of the off-season yet to come. We haven’t even got to the Winter Meetings yet! I mean, I know Rutsey’s just doing his job, but good lord.

And frankly, if Anthopoulos feels he has the kind of job security to mostly double down on the roster he constructed last year and the help that’s coming through the pipeline, that’s a good thing. We’ve got to the point of pining for him to do something truly damaging to the franchise now, just for the sake of doing it? Or we just are too irrational to be able to comprehend how difficult it was always going to be to pull an ace-calibre rabbit out of his hat without taking a giant, giant hit? Gah!

There’s a balance that needs to be struck between win-now and kill-the-future. If that balance can’t be met, what is he supposed to do? Surely not admit in the media beforehand how absolutely desperate he is, just to calm the fears of the mouth breather set, right???

The comments on that piece, by the way, are basically an anthology of the fucking monumentally dumbest thoughts you could ever imagine the most half-brained Jays fans having. Do yourself a favour and LOOK AWAY.

So… there’s that.

Comments (161)

  1. I couldn’t help but read the comments on the Sun article… Uggh!

  2. if the Sun write up was on Jan 25th or something, maybe. But i am not worried yet. and even without a big name coming over, we still have a great team, when healthy.

    Tanaka is still a target until he signs somewhere else. He has to be.

    Good Luck AA

    we will see

  3. STOETEN brings the daily dose of bad news.

    The Jays are going to suck for another year right?

    I’m going to go to 15 games and they will win 5 (non-AL East teams) and drink away the pain with $11 cans of Boddington’s?

    • dont jump man
      everything is going to be alright

    • Yes, because your experiences of less than 1/10th of the games played will be indicative of the rest of the season. Math!

    • id rather they suck in 2014 then do something foolish like the Royals did last year and trade 6 years of two top prospects for 2 years of slightly above average team play.

      the talent the Jays have in the minors is ridiculous. the way the scouting, drafting and player development has been going, in 3-4 years the major league and AAA team are going to look pretty deep.

      with the unexpected emergence of Bautista and EE i think AA saw an opportunity to fasttrack contention with the team but the plan, all along, was to build for the slow climb. last offseason he tried to rush things and maybe now, he’s realizing he doesn’t want to make that mistake again?

      • The Royals had the lowest ERA in the AL last season. They have a lot of young bats on the up. They could very easily be a playoff team this season.

        Wasn’t that EXACTLY what the Jays were aiming for last offseason?

        • Yes, but I think the point is that one player does not put you over the top, and in the Jays situation last year 5 players did not put them over the top! Last year serves as a reminder that it is not a good idea to mortgage the future (too much) to live for the present, because while flags fly forever, most times you cannot predict before the season that it is going to shake out that way. I’d be much more comfortable making that deal in June or July if we are in contention. But as many people have said, giving up 12 combined years of production from two top prospects for two years of one average-ish production from one player would be reckless and foolish, and may very well not get you any closer to the post season.

      • As has been written here a number of times, watching Bautista, EE and Morrow have the best years of their careers without having a playoff push is foolish. They absolutely should try to make a playoff push, and pointing the strategy that the Royals employed is not a convincing argument otherwise.

        • Trading Myers was stupid though. Myers is projected to provide similar or even superior war totals over the next couple of years at a very cheap cost. It does not make sense from an asset management perspective at all.

          And while the move made them competitive, they didnt exactly make the playoff did they. So not a sound strategy in any way.

          • Please refrain from comparing Wil Myers at the stage in his development he was at when he was traded to literally anyone in our system.

            That’s comparing apples to apple pie.

    • Actually… pleas jump, you’re annoying a fuck

  4. Mike Rutsey, aka Panicky Idiot Number Two in the Poseidon Adventure.

  5. I’m really not that worried about the pitching situation.

    I’m more worried about C and 2B. They’ve made C a little deeper and probably a bit better. But it’s not a night and day change.

    Meanwhile I just have no good guess as to what they’ll do at 2B.

    • I completely disagree. We’re probably looking at, what, a 3 WAR change at the catcher position between last year and this year.

      2B is still a concern, but Izturis can’t be as bad as he was this year… can he?

      I think the Starter situation is much more dire than 2B regardless. The team can (probably) survive having a sinkhole in their offense at 2B thanks to several other well above average bats. But they can’t do the same in the starting rotation.

    • Arencibia and Thole combined for -1.1 fWAR in 2013.
      Navarro and Kratz are projected for 3.2 fWAR in 2014 (based on the Steamer projections on FanGraphs)

      I know projection systems aren’t particularly accurate, but they’re much closer than any guess I could make. Take it as you will, but if those numbers prove somewhat accurate then the Jays will have added somewhere around 4 wins while improving their catching depth and causing no significant increase to payroll.

      • But Philbert what is (or what was) JPA projected for? Surely they weren’t projecting him to be as bad as he was last year.

        I have a very hard time believing we have made a 4 win improvement ($24M improvement by $/WAR) by hiring Navarro.

        To be honest, much as I am glad to lose JP, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and Navarro both have similar value next year. That’s fine – because hopefully similar production that is above what we got last year.

        • I’m optimistic about the Jays, not a negative suckhole…but what’s sad about this year is that we can upgrade at the black hole positions but still be worse off – projection wise – than where we were at before the start of last season.

          We’re guaranteed to upgrade at C and 2B, and with a healthy season from Lawrie at 3B as well, over last year’s production. But that might bring us back to square one?

          At pitching, we are behind where our expectations were at before last season started. Although the progress of our prospects mitigates this a bit, I don’t think anyone expects Stroman or Hutchison to replace the production we hoped/expected to get out of Johnson.

        • I have no idea what he was projected for, but I would have to assume it was somewhere around the 1.1 fWAR he put up in 2012. Of course predictions don’t always work out (I’m sure Jays fans know that better than anyone), but we know the production the Jays got from catcher last year was horrendous and that even a replacement level catcher would add a win. I don’t think it’s outlandish to suggest that the combination of Navarro, Thole and Kratz could contribute 2-3 wins in 2014.

    • As much as id like to see Cano at 2nd, Izturis isnt as horrible as everyone thinks. off year last year. He hits switch, his defense isnt bad, and he can run. With competition from young Goins, i wouldnt be surprised if he stepped up this year.

  6. Did AA say that shit off the record or was the sun writer just making his own assumptions? Thats the question I have with that article

  7. About the trading within the division.

    What about the long view that this may be a good idea to keep your team winning in a sustained manner – what the Rays are striving to do trading Shields and Price to begin with. If Rays trade Price to the Jays yes Price could haunt them for the next two years. But assuming that the prospects they get back produce in the future they will haunt the Jays for years and also the Jays will not be as good in that future.

    As an unrealistic extreme hypothetical video game type scenario say the Jays trade all their vets right now to division rivals getting back many of their top prospects. Could mean that down the road the division rivals may be mediocre while the Jays would be rich in young talent.

    • Yes, but if you trade the guy out of the division, you get players that will help you anyway. The only difference is you don’t face your own former ace.

      • and you make the other team in your division have poorer future prospects

        Its a lose win win versus win scenario

        • Yeah I had that thought too. But it’s hard when the Yanks are one of those teams. It never really hurts them to be stuck with an aging veteran. If we had Arod’s contract I feel* we would file for bankruptcy. Meanwhile the Yankees have already added around a quarter of a billion in payroll this offseason!

          * gut feeling of despair, I’m still on the boat, just a little seasick at the moment

    • Our division rivals will never be mediocre, at least not all at the same time.

    • The Jays would just trade that young talent for Josh Johnsons and RA Dickeys. Haven’t you learned anything?

  8. I think that’s a fair posting system change albeit maybe not the best for the jays. It atleast gets teams to the table without paying some astronomical fee. And maybe Japanese players aren’t as biased about playing in Canada as maybe some MLB FA’s if that’s the right word, u all know what I mean.

    • They will still have to deal with customs every time they make a trip and higher taxes. That is the real reasons why some players avoid Canada.

      • That is a stupid reason.

        • Stupid as it may be athletes have time and again cited it as reason.

          Re Coach: Well compare playing in Toronto to say Florida where they don’t have taxes. Where would you prefer if the contract offer was the same.

          • have they? Please provide references. I can’t find any.

            • Are you seriously being that dense? If it comes down to a player wanting to win and a Canadian team offers the best chance they will almost always come here. Baseball players haven’t been as vocal as say basketball players but it shocks me you are able to plug your ears like that.

      • with the updated tax code in the US, unless you have a business to hide your cash, you pay close to the same in ON as you do in over half the US at the top lvl.

      • In the Shi davidi book, he mentions that AA had tax reports for Dickey that showed the difference in taxes between TO and NY was like 40k for his 5 million salary

    • Its fair in the sense that if a team puts up the refundable $20m, it gets to talk to the player and pitch its case. But its still going to come down to who is willing to put up the dollars and the term.

      For Tanaka, my guess is its going to take a 7yr term (Darvish was six)
      a chance to win and close to $100m to get the job done.

  9. We may as well forget Price and I for one am glad. He’s going to cost somebody an entire farm team. Look what they got for Shields. Start with a rookie of the year and keep adding top minor league pitching until there’s no more left. Then add more. I’m hoping for one good pitcher in trade and either Brandon Philips or Robinson Cano. And yes, I am smoking crack., I know.

    • Phillips is an interesting case. There were reports yesterday (I think it was either on MLBTR or Hardball Times) that ownership wanted to move him but that the front office did not.
      If true, its hard to say how that would go.

    • maybe. what would you have thought DET could have gotten for fister before he was dealt to the nats?

  10. Complete pipedream by all accounts, but a package for David Price fronted by Aaron Sanchez and complemented by lower level prospects would be very interesting. And the Rays have a tendency to baby prospects, so we likely wouldn’t be facing Sanchez in the next two years of the competitive window, anyways.

    Price, Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Stroman for an Opening Day rotation, with Hutchison, Happ, Redmond, Nolin, and Drabek in Triple-A as the 6-7-8-9-10 starters. Supported by that dynamite bullpen and complementing a seemingly powerful lineup? The roster suddenly looks very good, even if you can’t afford to upgrade second base and run with the Goins/Izzy platoon there.

    But again, pipedream, obviously.

    • Looks good
      but i would switch out Stroman for Hutchison or Drabek

      plus i think Happ is now out of options

    • I think it’s pretty clear from AA’s comments that he’s not planning to offer up the ridiculous package that would be required to get Price from the Rays, due to intra-division trading and all that.

      AA probably talked with Friedman about it and Friedman said something along the lines of Sanchez, Stroman, Gose, Tirado. AA’s smarter than to offer up a package like that.

    • I have a feeling that Happ with either be in the starting rotation or traded away. No minors or bullpen for him.

      • Isn’t Happ out of options so he’ll either be traded or DFA’d. I would think he’s probably got value on the trade market.

    • Something tells me the conversation for Price would start with Sanchez AND Stroman +! Look what they got for Shields, and Price is better – Shields never won a CY! Plus the in-division overpay factor.

  11. You know. I think it’s been like 2 weeks since I saw the term “negative suckhole” on this blog… I miss it in a weird way.

    • Funny, I wrote a comment before reading this putting up a preemptive defense against being called a negative suckhole.

  12. Trading within divisions, It just isn’t done in MLB.
    It’s the game most adverse to change. Look at the Cubs and their day games, the length of time it took to institute replay of any kind and the complete lack of a dug testing strategy until recent years…..

    But if there were a GM to buck the trend, to drop the dinosaur mentality of not trading with half the league because you may play that player, and instead take the best compensation available, then it would be the innovator Andrew Friedman.

    I give it miniscule odds of happening but if it were to ever happen, he’d be the guy to do it.

  13. I’m all for taking the “best talent on the board” but anyone else bummed that the guys who line up at 9 and 11 for this Junes draft are pitchers?

    It just seems like all we have drafted the past 3 years have been pitchers. It’s much easier to get all prospect porny/horny about kids who can hit a ball 500 feet.

    And the attrition on pitchers… fuck

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=draft

    • without those drafted arms….no Reyes…..

      • Good point, but one of these years it would be fun if we tried to pick the guy near the top of the draft who could turn into Reyes.

        • i hear ya

          look at some of the young guys that have come up in the past few years…..

          but, then again, i am still a believer in taking best there is on the list. and June is 6 months out, who knows what the draft list is going to look like then.

        • Franklin Barreto… the next Jose Reyes.

        • + loads and loads.

        • Thing about pitching is, you can always find a market, as opposed to position players. The problem with that is, depending on the individual trade, sometimes you can overpay.

        • Another angle could be that the #7 (SS), #10 (OF), #12 (SS), #13 (OF) are NOT pitchers so depending on who’s list you’re looking at, those guys could easily slot in at #9 and #11. (Wouldn’t mind seeing a 2B or C though)

    • its absurdly early to start looking at draft rankings and lining them up with draft positions… the lists are interesting and there is a reasonable chance that the picks at 9 and 11 are on there somewhere… but c’mon.

      • Yeah you missed my point, but thanks for the input.

        • “anyone else bummed that the guys who line up at 9 and 11 for this Junes draft are pitchers?”

          maybe you should read your f’n post before you accuse me of missing the point.

    • If Gettys has a good year as a high school senior and is still on the board at their turn, they might well go for him.
      http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=draft

  14. Re “no shit, Sherlock”

    I haven’t head that in a while.

    Gotta be one of the top ten best sayings of all time.

  15. Who cares about the Jays.

    • delete Jays, and add Leafs…..they list will be shorter

    • You, since you’re reading a FUCKING BLUEJAYS BLOG!

      • @IMW,

        How did you know I read the FUCKING blog and didn’t just leave a FUCKING comment? You must be Ms. CLEO’S fruit cake loving son. You’re such a fucking Internet tough guy eh? Punk ass.

        • The fact you are reading a comment on Jay’s blog, means by simple logic that you are reading the Jay’s blog, since this blog includes comments as an important part of it’s site.

          • Reading the blog and comment section are two different things fuck boy.

            • I’ve been called numerous things in my life, but your insult amuses me. Though someone calling me a Paki while I am clearly a man of Asian descent was probably my favourite.

              • revolu – I’m Scottish and one time a guy called me “Mexican”….

                • Lol, at least it potentially wasnt an insult, he could have been genuinely confused on your ethnic background. This guy tried to insult me with a racial slur, but completely failed with the ethnic group. I actually paused, asked him to repeat it (he did), and I walked away laughing at his stupidity. Good times.

            • Having a snow day today little one?

        • Haha. Are you serious?
          Are you, like, an actual person?

    • The half a million viewers they average on tv per game, I guess. Thanks for comin out.

      • Half a million losers like you! Thanks for sharing.

        • you are a terrible troll if you are coming to a Blue Jays fan blog and saying who cares about them. Just fuck off.

          • How bout I nail your sister instead?

            • You could certainly try, like hack dgapa’s posted account to get his email, then stalk his facebook to see if dgapa has a sister in the first place, then stalk her, all while breaking numerous laws in the process. Then comes the tall order of actually asking the girl out, when rejection rates are rather high for many men, even those that are experts.

              Assuiming in the unlikely chance you are sucessful in asking her out. You also have no idea how attractive dgapa hypothetical sister would be. She could be very pretty. She could also not be attractive by your standards in anyway giving you a dilemma. Do you follow through your deed regardless of how unattracted you are to her?

              This is assuming she’s into men at all (I’m assuming your an immature troll of a male in this scenario), she could be a lesbian and then you’re in trouble.

              Unless you get dgapa approval, tough break my friend, too many factors going against you. Though if you’re really determined, good luck, you’re gonna need it.

              • ROFL. Did you actually think I was going to read your novel? You’re obviously a fucktard because you’ve wasted your time to respond to a troll. The same goes for the other three goofs. This is more amusing than anything written on the blog.

              • Since this is the internet and you are a fake tough guy, you can try to nail my fake sister as well!

                I’m sure if I had a sister she would be smokin’ hot, so a real coup by you!

  16. Meh I would be satisfied with one starting pitcher for the right price like Anderson or Samardzija, but I would love it if he got both or one + a FA. At least another starter is one step closer in not having Happ be our 5th starter this year or even have him make a start for that matter. Any scenario where that happens is a bonus for me right off the top lol yes my dislike for Happ still burns. Anyone got some ointment?

  17. So Mr Rutsey, is it time for Blue Jay fans to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?

    Yes I would Kent.

  18. Royals just picked up Aoki (a 3 win OF on a decent contract) for a 24 year old long man (with some upside, but not much). How do the Brewers not get more?

    • Maybe, that is under selling Smith a bit, but a player used as a reliever for a starting OF? Why wouldn’t a team do that?

  19. Aoki to the Royals for Will Smith. Unbelieveable. Steal for the Royals IMO.

    • 24 year old starter with good numbers for a wrong side of 30 lead off man whos game is based on speed?

      i really dont think its all that bad really.

      • Aoki isn’t a prince fielder 30, he’s an ichiro 30. He’s in his prime, put up multiple WAR in his first two years, and is making very little for what he brings to the table.

        Smith is back-end starter material at best, he’s never been a top prospect for the Royals, I think he was 12th in the Royals organization in 2011 prior to the start of his MLB service.

        If I were AA I’d have traded our 12th prospect for him

        • Aoki and Ichiro have two things in common
          born in Japan
          and Play LF

          thats it

          Ichiro should never been compaired to anyone at his 30 mark.

          Aoki is a good player, but Smith is 24 and has some upside. I dont think this is a bad trade for a team that needs pitching.

      • Seems like the Royals turned Smith into a very good reliever last season 11.61 K/9. That said a 3 WAR OF for a reliever is gold.

        • Smith is a starter
          he pitched in as a reliever because KC had a solid rotation.

          • Hmm use him as a horrible starter or great reliever? The Brewers have 5 starters better than him already. After trading away Rodriguez and Axford last year their pen needs help.

    • My life will be complete if Will Smith is ever playing for the Phillies and then gets traded to LA….

  20. Seen some people going on about Happ

    I am with you, i have never been a fan

    Happ is out of Options i believe

    Would he be part of a trade for a higher paid Starter?

    He doesn’t cost too much, and maybe he is part of the Shark or Price (prob not) talks?

  21. Nice pick up by the Royals. Brewers trading 3 WAR outfielders for relievers. Sure hope AA can continue to get the same value for his surplus.

  22. Saw a tweet that the Jays are one of the team in on Jamey Carroll. He’s certainly no spring chicken, but he’s been a consistent 2-3 WAR guy prior to last year where he only played less than half a season. High OBP and gives you defense at 2nd, 3rd and SS.

    • consistent 2-3?
      211/267/251(fuck me)

      Get Muni back if they think this is a good idea

      are you looking at the right Jamey Carroll?

      • You did see the part where I said “prior to last year” right?

        • no sorry, i missed that
          but if they pick him up, i will shit myself with the hope that its an early April fools joke.

          • With all the veteran presents he’ll be delivering it’ll feel more like Christmas than April Fool’s.

          • I would assume that he would pick up where DeRosa left off as a mentor for Lawrie and or Goins. Maybe he becomes your everyday 2nd baseman though that might be a stretch for a 40 year old. Then again, if he starts 100 or so games there with Izturis doing the rest maybe that’s a big upgrade over last year. Obviously that would depend on him bouncing back to pre 2013 levels.

        • This guy does not look good at all, he had 2 years where he was slightly above average with the bat, but his stats are also wildly inconsisent. Last year was also really bad. Seems like another Izturis really.

          • He has no power but gets on base, plays good D at multiple positions. Depending on the price, there’s plenty to like. Might be nice to see what a lineup of good OBP guys is like especially when you’ve got plenty of power guys around them (see the Red Sox if you want an example). If you can jack up your OBP at 2nd and C by 60 pts each that’s going to mean quite a few more runs.

            • I was hoping that the Blue Jays were beyond picking the best available guy out of the bargain bin and then hoping for him to match his career bests so that the team might lurch towards a respectable 3rd or 4th place finish with 82-87 wins. First, the Navarro signing and now reports of interest in Carroll have me wondering if we’re not exactly back to those bad old days.

        • But he is 39 and there was a noticeable decline from 2011 to 2012.
          Then, in 2013 he fell off a cliff.
          If the Blue Jays fancy themselves as a contending team,
          this is not the kind of guy who is going to get them there.
          http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carroja01.shtml

    • Like it or not, it’ll be hard to just cut Mighty Maicer based on the money they owe him. Alex may want to give him another shot, but this time put him in a better position to succeed.

      The career splits show some possibility for a platoon. Maybe lean on Carroll at home with the speedy turf.

      This way Goins likely starts the year where he belongs, as depth.

      It isn’t the best solution at 2B, but depending on what the market provides, I could live with it, so long as Reyes plays 160 games.

  23. The Toronto Sun comments section is a joy to read.

    • A joy? If you enjoying pulling out your hair, gnashing your teeth and gouging your eyeballs at the sheer stupidity sure.

  24. If the jays “only” added 190 innings of Jimenez, I’d be jacked.

  25. “Throwing gasoline on the moron fire” … BRILLIANT!

  26. Navarro has some tough shoes to fill lol

  27. You just got a plug on MLB radio Stoeten. They’re talking about your piece on the Fister trade

    • KLaw tweeted about one of his posts also.

      It’s amazing how many read and refer to the blog.
      I mean, of course, in a good way.
      My mind always thinks about the current subject and it being like shooting the shit in a bar with a bunch people with different points of view.

      Who’s turn is it to buy a round anyway?

    • I doubt the agents of garza and jimenez would bite, but right now is a good time to say hey ubaldo, here’s a 5/80 you have until friday to accept.

      because if tanaka is not posted, every team who wanted to be in on him is going to be all over the free agent market.

  28. the sun has a grade 4 reading level… u want to maintain your iq level stick to the star

  29. To anyone even slightly entertaining the idea of Price as a Jay… do any of you even slightly comprehend what it would cost to get him from a division rival? The cost would be astronomical. Remember what it cost them to get an aging knuckler from a national league team? Now put Price and a division rival into that equation. You do the math. Not even sure why this was posted.

    • It cost the JAYS that much to get Dickey. Nobody else was going to pay that price. It was just a case of AA misreading the market and pushing in more chips than he needed to due to this perceived mini window that people have to start acting like is open for two out of 50 years like some stargate.

      • I wonder what it would cost to get Chris Sale instead…. probably right around the same package, have him for longer, and you shed the division part of the equation.

  30. remember when the Rangers wanted Mike Napoli but the Angels wouldn’t trade him to a division rival?

  31. I do think AA is being coy, But using A healthy Morrow to say they are comfortable witht he starting pitching hopefully is just posturing because we’ve been hearing about healthy Morrow for two years now.

  32. I think the comments up to date would suggest that AA does believe/ given vote of confidence that he has job security which is a good thing for the blue jays as an organisation he is unlikely to strip the farm as i thought he would at the beginning of the offseason. If the Marlins trade had panned out and the pitching preformed we wouldnt even be worried about his job security. AA does however need to re evaluate there pro scouting or player evaluation as many of his side trades (for relievers) and FA signings hurt the present teams depth.

  33. How bad can it really end up being if there are more stabilizing than overhauling moves made this off-season? I mean, a lot of the things we had reason for optimism for last year are still either question-marks or somewhat clarified, and it doesn’t add up to terrible here. This is the way things look to me:

    Things we learned in 2013:

    Pitching-
    Josh Johnson- Power pitcher skill-set, nibbles too much to let his stuff be effective, without the secondary command to be an effective control guy. Fragile. Best of luck elsewhere.

    R.A. Dickey- Not perennial Cy threat we hoped for (in our most christmas-y moments), But second half, when healthy, still showed ability to be extremely effective when healthy.

    Brandon Morrow- If he’s healthy he’s a hell of a pitcher. IF.

    Mark Buerhle- Had a horrible start to the year. Still threw 200 decent innings. Expensive but pretty much exactly what he’s supposed to be.

    Ricky Romero- I don’t even know where to begin.

    Starters other than that: Isn’t it comforting to be looking at names like Nolin, Stroman, Hutchison, Rogers, Redmond, even the ghost of Ricky (if he figures out the difference between his head and his ass and then determines where both of those things should be pointed upon follow through when pitc… but I digress) or Kyle (soon to be a reliever) Drabek over the crap they were throwing at the wall this year? I know this point has kind of been belaboured by many, but no more Wang or Laffey is definitely a good thing.

    Bullpen: We were worried about this last year. Turns out if you put a bunch of hard throwing, controllable arms mixed up of career relievers and failed starters from various scrap heaps and zany heavy balls together in one place, they can create an elite level bullpen with surplus arms to be auctioned off for minimal cost. Thanks Andrew Friedman. Oh, and also, Hey Brett Cecil, welcome back from the dead! (are you watching this Ricky?).

    So, they’re down one lottery ticket who people questioned whether he’d re-sign if he turned out to be any good last winter (remember THAT?), pretty much exactly where we thought we’d be (within rational, non-dickey dreaming of a repeat of 2012, expectations) with Morrow/Buerhle/Dickey, with Morrow supposedly in the Best Shape of His Life already, and with a stronger supporting cast than the beginning of last year. A nice 2-3 starter to fill the gap in the rotation would leave the 5 slot open to competition in camp, and we hope for health and good performances.

    Position Players

    Jose Bautista- skills seem to be declining, as has his health, but still providing great value on a very team friendly deal.

    Edwin Encarnacion- Showed 2012 was not anomaly. Signed to a steal of a deal, and stands to once again be one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball. Plus the man walks blind parrots for charity. Awesome.

    Jose Reyes- Everything promised. So entertaining. So good at baseball. And 80 Grade Smile.

    Brett Lawrie- Was it the WBC? The injury? The position shift? Is he as good as he looked for most of the second half? If hes maintains the new maturity he seemed to be showing both at the plate and in the field, and continues to actualize his tools the way he seemed to be last year, next year could finally be when we get to see how good Bret Lawrie can be.

    Colby Rasmus- High BABIP concerns aside, Southern Man started to assert himself as a hitter this year. He can set himself up for free agency with continues progression.

    Adam Lind- Ginger Kitty actually hit this year as if he could be an asset to a good team, instead of an anchor. Who knew?

    Macier Izturis- I’m going to be polite and merely say that his performance did no meet the modest expectations assigned to his signing. That and it would appear that, at this point in his career he can’t hit, field, throw or do anything re-fucking-motely connected to the game of baseball pr-fucking-ticularly well. There. I think that was treading lightly (*pats back)

    JP Arrencibia- It’s all been said. He’s gone. That’s a win for the offseason in a lot of ways. That’s all I’ll say.

    Mark DeRosa- For the stupid amount he had to play relative to his skill-set and age, performed admirably. Enjoy golf, or knitting or family or whatever old baseball players do. Oh, you’re going into broadcasting? Awesome.

    Melky Cabrera- There’s a large part of me, after watching him Scott Rolen his way around the field when “healthy” that really wants to give him a mulligan based on the tumor on his spine. I mean, that can’t be good for mobility, can it? He still has to prove a lot in 2013, which is what everyone said post-suspension going in to 2012. He’s just a year older now, and a year further removed from his excellent 2011-12 vintages. But now also spinal-tumor free! So who knows.

    The Other Guys- Ryan Goins is really fun to watch play second. And a quick bathroom break at-bat… Bye-Bye Rajai, proof that having one near elite tool can guarantee employment even if everything else is average at best…. Moises Sierra, Platoon/Super-Sub? I can get down… Josh Thole, is a backup catcher. He does those kind of things… Kevin Pillar is a nice thing to have around the house, if not particularly useful except in a pinch. Like those stubs of half candles in that cupboard on your house. Not essential, but if there’s a blackout, bam, Kevin Pillar is lighting your house. Just not terribly effectively and hopefully not for too long before regular power returns… Anthony Gose, the mercurial thing stopped being cute two years ago. Stop being “precocious” and learn to hit just a little. That is all… There were also Bonifacio and Kawasaki, one of whom stopped being cute when he didn’t live up to expectation (read: he was god awful) and one of whom became a mascot partially because there were no expectations for him to live up to. despite ending up with very similar lines over their time with the Jays. Odd, that.

    So the veterans did what veterans do (decline, get hurt, but produce to their talent), Lawrie seems to be progressing, catcher was brutal and should improve because it simply can’t get much worse, the outfield has potential to be almost as god as, if not better than, we expected last year, second base is still kind of a mess with no easy fix. So a lot of the questions from last season remain unanswered, but there are positive signs in a lot of places.

    All in all, there are obvious holes in this roster. Am I suggesting standing pat and hoping the things that went wrong last year go right this time? Certainly not. And I’m also not saying all I want for Christmas is a second/third tier starter and a flex pack sign-up sheet. I want Cano on second, a trade for Price and maybe one of the Cardinals young arms, as well as Tanaka just for kicks and depth. But the purpose of this exercise was more to look at the core coming out of the year. As I said off the top, a lot of the reason for last spring’s optimism are still present, and a lot of questions have been answered positively. But, there is still a significant void between the team and October baseball at this point, filled with a lot of questions which still demand answers. I just feel like that void may not be as wide as it may appear after the disappointment of 2013.

  34. If you want to read stupid fucking comments by people who no clue about baseball, you should read the Jays page on Facebook. I have read such garbage as “Keep JP, he is our best player”. “He is our most handsome player. We love you JP”. Holy cheezus, this fucking town is so stupid with their blind love of mediocrity, especially the Leafs and the Jays.

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