Minnesota Twins Photo Day

He qualifies it by noting that “Alex Anthopoulos has a reputation for thoroughness, which means interest can sometimes be a matter of due diligence,” but in his latest for Sportsnet, Ben Nicholson-Smith suggests that the Jays have shown some interest in free agent infielder Jamey Carroll, shown above in jack-o’-lantern form.

Or… wait. That’s really him??!? Uh… OK then…

Carroll is an interesting, if unsexy, option– in the baseball sense, of course. He turns 40 in February, though, and is coming off the worst season of his career by WAR, and… well… by everything, pretty much. And since I’ve tended to worry this off-season– overly so, perhaps– about guys on the wrong side of thirty taking steps backwards, my immediate thought is that Carroll maybe isn’t necessarily the best idea here.

Then again, he’s a cheap bounce-back candidate who posted more than two wins per season, in full time duty, for each of the three prior to the last one.

Hmm…

Yes, the on-base is pretty hollow, and the bulk of the value comes from defence, and he’s about half as fun as Munenori Kawasaki, who is essentially the same player, but there’s actually one key difference that might tip the balance in his favour with regard to Kawasaki: Carroll hits from the right side.

Even in the overall his 6.3 fWAR and a .313 wOBA, 97 wRC+, and .359 OBP over the three seasons prior to his 2013 disaster is nothing to sneeze at. And, somewhat surprisingly, he hit ahead of the pitcher in less than a quarter of his plate appearances over that time– just six of his 150 walks during that span were intentional– so it’s not like the on-base there is even that inflated.

Add that he’s a plus defender and he’s certainly not a bad option for a team whose GM still, somehow, insists he’s comfortable going into the season with Maicer Izturis and Ryan Goins, and that could absolutely use more depth up the middle after the losses of Kawasaki and Mark DeRosa this winter.

Better still, though, is the fact that he’s been a strong hitter against left-handed pitching in his career. Even in his abysmal 2013, he was very nearly OK. Not really, of course– a .290 wOBA and 79 wRC+ is pretty black hole-ish– but, again, in the three years prior he was more than a grade above that: .347 wOBA and 120 wRC+ in 409 plate appearances.

Ryan Goins is a left-handed hitter, and while I’m extremely uncomfortable with his bat, at least having a caddy for him in the form of a guy like Carroll would mitigate a whole bunch of the value he’d squander against same-sided pitching on account of his being fucking terrible against them. Goins– who some people want to be the starting second baseman for this club– posted a .214/.243/.310 line this season against Triple-A left-handers, and didn’t exactly blow the doors of the fucking barn against them in Double-A the year before, putting up a .265/.326/.381 line.

Goins, as Shi Davidi noted earlier today at Sportsnet, is currently getting some extra work in with new hitting coach Kevin Seitzer, which is great, but I have absolutely no confidence that he’s going to show up a transformed hitter compared to the one who started his big league career with eight game hitting streak and still managed to sink to just a .267 wOBA and 62 wRC+ in 34 games.

Meanwhile, Maicer Izturis is thoroughly confounding in this regard. Certainly not a plus defender at second last year (he said making the fucking understatement of the year), Izturis also has alternated through his career in terms of his success as a right-handed hitter against left-handed pitching. From 2009 to 2011 his .357 wOBA and 125 wRC+ over 297 PA was downright impressive, but his last 206 plate appearances against them have been fairly dogshit: .252 wOBA, 55 wRC+.

So… uh… Jamey Carroll, then? I say, “Why the fuck not?”

Sure, it would be kind of terrifying if it turned out that he sucked, but it’s maybe not the worst gamble. The only thing is, while I know that our mantra at the end of the season was that this team really needed only to improve its worst areas from godawful to passable enough, man… that sure is a lot easier to say than it is to be seen put into action, isn’t it? However, if “just a couple wins better than Arencibia is all we need” was fine when it came to the catching position– which I think was true, and I think Alex Anthopoulos has already accomplished reasonably well– there’s not much of an argument why “just a couple wins better than Izturis and Bonifacio” shouldn’t be a very solid, very easy improvement for the club to make at second, as well.

Goins alone wouldn’t, I don’t think, but this would do it. Mark Ellis would be even better, I believe– and in Davidi’s piece he noted both Ellis and Carroll as names to watch for the Jays to be in on– but either way, we sure aren’t talking about the kind of fun, splashy upgrade so many fans have been a little bit overly hopeful for, are we? And while I know in the back of my mind that’s probably for best, it really is hard to get over the utter unsexiness of it all sometimes. In the baseball sense, of course.

Or, sure, as noted in the comments, Omar Infante would be even better still– at least on the front end of whatever contract he signs.

So… there’s that.

Comments (165)

  1. This led me to seeing if anyone has ever referenced to Jamey Carroll as a slugger on the internet before, and sure enough, 6 google results.

    Players with over 1000 PAs that have never been called a slugger?

    Omar Quintanilla, Eugenio Velez and Tony Gwynn Jr, decidedly not sluggers.

  2. Rather have Mark Ellis.

    • As I exactly said in the post.

      • Stoeten – have you come around on Omar Inflated? Although it looks like he’ll sign after Cano to an…inflated contract…

        • I’d be scared of the back end of that deal, but he’d be a good pickup– better than this.

          • The back loaded contract would become (somewhat) less of a quagmire with Buehrle gone and presumably one or two of our cheap young arms in the rotation. Infante brings the versatility of moving him around the infield (Lawrie to 2nd and Infante to 3rd?)… just spitballin’ but might work.

            Might have to fight the Mariners (sweet?) once Cano signs with the Yanks though.

            • Fair points. Just would hate for him to suddenly become unplayable there. I always underrate him, perhaps.

              • What kind of deal do you see Infante getting? The highest projection I’ve seen was 4/40, with most folks predicting 3 years between 25 and 28 million. I’d have no problem with that, front end or back end.

                • Four years for him is pretty gross. Three and less than 10 is OK, unless that’s blowing their budget to add another starter. They’re only $10-15M away from $150M, and while it would be bullshit if Rogers wouldn’t give them all kinds of leeway on that number (which they may well still do– we have no idea), if that’s the reality, Infante becomes pretty hard to swallow then. Certainly Ellis or Carroll in some kind of a platoon, if it keeps money free for a pitcher, is better than Infante and nothing more.

                  • I think $8 mil /year for 3 years ($24 in total) is reasonable for Infante. Perhaps an $9 mil 4th year option with $1 mil buyout to make it $25 over 3 with the option of $33 over 4.

                    Gotta get someone at 2nd, it ain’t going to be Cano. I think Caroll would be a nice utility infielder or potential insurance option but too much of a gamble considering the year he is coming off and his age.

                  • If Cano signs in Seattle, and Infante goes to NYY…. what about either Franklin or Ackley out of SEA? Ackley hit enough during the 2nd half to make him intriguing. Despite Franklin’s struggles, I think he’ll be ok too. Certainly either guy upgrades the current situation.

  3. geez, Imean I guess…..but no, I can’t support a Goins/Carroll platoon.

    There just has to be a better option…..please.

  4. good lord i hope not. i remember the scorn and ridicule heaped upon the Twins when they reanimated Carroll’s corpse to sign him to that free agent deal. it didn’t work out so well for them.

  5. please no, please

    Whats he going to cost? not much i guess, but i remember you saying this about DeRosa, and as much as i loved DeRosa, he wasn’t great last year.

    Bring Muni back over Carroll.

    • Read the post.

      • i did. And it sounded like you wanted to talk your self into it with, maybe a 40-41 year old can find something he couldn’t find last year…..no i say.

        ill see if i can find it, but when AA signed DeRosa you started a post about splits and maybe he can find some pop and what not. We have tryed this twice now, it doesn’t work. We can find 2 wins from another place, other then hopes and dreams i would think.

        and i have said bring Muni back a few times when the 2nd issue comes up.

        • Read the post.

          • please tell me what i am missing then?

            you talk about splits vs leftys for both him and Goins, and the loss up the middle and izzy being shitty and how he had good War the 3 years prior to last year stuff.

            then you say wtf not

            i am saying no

            What did i miss?

            • You said bring back Muni. The answer why Carroll is a much better option is in the post. Not just in it, it IS the post.

              • i just want Muni back because he is Muni

                do i really want to see him play a lot of games at 2b this year, no

                but i sure as shit dont think Carroll is the answer either.

                we can’t take guys on a maybe they will regain something when playing here, we have a Carroll in goins.

                • Again: READ THE POST.

                  • Clearly i am missing something from your post, i did read it, and have re read it.

                    I see all the stuff about Muni and Carroll and Goins and how they all suck.

                    what i got from the post was that you were almost talking yourself into it. Instead of just saying, fuck that idea and move on.

                    To compair Navorro over Aaron and that upgrade, and how we were all ok with it and what not doesn’t fit. Because we were so pissed about how the season went behind the plate. This boiled down to, at least we dont have to watch Aaron hit or catch for us ever again.

                    With 2nd Base…we at least have a D first option, which is all Carroll is, and who i would bet doesn’t have the range of Goins. thats what i am saying, the only name on that list you posted was Ellis, and then, only if for 1 year.

                    • and Before you jump at me about Goins, i think AAA is his ideal home next season. But lets upgrade over a move that gives us what we already have.

                    • “With 2nd Base…we at least have a D first option, which is all Carroll is, and who i would bet doesn’t have the range of Goins.”

                      I don’t want Carroll at all because, given his age, I’m concerned that 2013 will be closer to the norm than the previous three years. Still, Carroll is much less of a “D first option” than Goins is, which is pretty clearly laid out in the post that you’ve now read and re-read.

                    • Do I really have to tell you to read the post again?

                      Goins is unplayable against LHP. Carroll is much better against LHP. Both good defensive options. Put them together and what do you have? Much better than either or, or Kawasaki, or Izturis and Goins.

                      Ta-da!

                    • so we platoon at 2nd…..DH….whatelse do we waste a roster spot with?

                      or

                      we look for an Upgrade at 2nd and put Goins in AAA

                      Carroll is not a good option, your not going to sell me on this one.

                    • You do realize that platooning like that is what makes the Rays and A’s so good on limited budgets don’t you? The jays teams of the 80′s also made great use of it.

                    • Opps ended up in the wrong spot.

                    • Probably not. I’m sure it would be easier to sell you if you actually read the post, though.

                    • im not down with a platoon of goins and izzy or carroll or any combo of that.

                      Carroll is the next aaron cibia if they sign him.

                      we already have a platoon at C and DH

                      we would limit our bench with another. Not a good option. If they find an upgrade at 2nd over Goins, and can send him down, have izzy as the utl guy as he should be, then ill be sold.

                    • The DH is very likely platooning with the fourth outfielder, so that’s less of a roster issue. And every team always carries two catchers, so that’s not different either. So yes, it can be done– like last year when they had Reyes, Lawrie, Izturis, Bonifacio, DeRosa as their infielders. Same number in this scenario.

                      I’m not saying there aren’t better possibilities, but, of course, you’d understand what I’m saying if you would actually read the post.

                    • maybe i just dont agree with you, not that i didn’t read it. Possible?

        • Why didn’t he just read the post?

          The new – “Why didn’t he just tag him?”

  6. Pass, unless its just an inviter to ST

    What the f&^W# is wrong with going after Omar Infante?? It’s only money Right?

  7. too take everyones mine off the idea of signing Carroll…..here is some prospect porn
    http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/a-simple-accounting-of-farm-system-impact-potential/

    its from Oct, but found it nice to read

    • It’s just not right, the Red Sox win the world series AND have the highest ranked farm system? (let not even go there re John Farrell)

      • the list is based off top talent ready to make an impact. As far as depth at the farm level, i dont think they are first. D backs, Seattle, maybe even us by some peoples counts.

    • Wait until BP’s Jays stuff drops today.

  8. jack o lantern eh? Ive been saying he looks like a piranha for years

  9. Yankees could suck next season so they pick up Jacoby and McCann probably return Cano and a real possibility for Tanaka. Jays could suck next season so they get Navarrao and are interested in Jamey Carrol…… I know its still early and its not that simple but are we really going to be disappointed by another pointless season next year when this is the kind of stuff that is happening?

    • Not necessarily.

      • Maybe not a pointless season but the team needs to add some substantial talent someway or another.

        • Not necessarily.

          Lots of room for internal improvement. Not ideal to rely on just that, but not necessarily a death sentence either.

          • You live by that sword you die by that sword, Lawrie improving and healthy, more from Melky, better full seasons by Dickey and Buerhle are all possible but far from sure things AND then you still need a couple of other starters be it Stroman or Hutchinson to give good innings and then the pen to be as good again this season. You can’t rely on all that to happen, you need extra and a good FA sign would help that.

  10. I am no expert but it feels to me that carrol is a giant leap forward in the photo department.

    Unfortunately he’s a giant leap sideways and 2b

  11. Sigh…so this is what it comes to. Jamey Frickin Carroll. Could be worse I guess. Could be Kelly Johnson.

      • KJ was very impressive in the strikeout department, he made Arencibia look good. Though I believe KJ was in the playoffs last year.

    • Christ, if they are going to completely cheap the fuck out at 2b, forget Jamey Carroll. Give me a platoon of Goins and Jonathan Diaz. 2 defensive whizzes, one righty, one lefty. Both have big platoon splits in the minors. Both are young enough. Goins has a bit of power, Diaz is all about OBP. Between the 2 of them we could hope for a .650 OPS and excellent defense.

      Of course I’d rather mark Ellis, but forget Carroll. I’d say he’s done.

    • I’d love to get KJ. Can’t believe the Yankees got him so cheap.

  12. Colour me underwhelmed, i know he’s one season removed from a 2 war season but he is also like really old. I wouldnt take my chances on a rebound.

  13. ” in jack-o’-lantern form” wins the day!

  14. Sounds like they could be going cheap at another position. While it’s true that just about any decent player would be an upgrade on 2013′s Izuris/Bonifacio horrible combination, this isn’t the best sign for the offseason as a whole. Neither was the suggestion last night that they won’t be players in the FA SP market.

    Unfortunately, it seems that offseasons like 2005 and 2012 are always going to be the exception with the Jays under Rogers, not the norm. That isn’t a death blow to our chances or anything, but it does continuously make it harder than it needs to be to compete in this division.

    • It is kind of interesting that AA has sort of backed off getting a free agent starter all of a sudden considering what he said last month. I wonder if there was some truth to the rumours after all about Rogers crimping the Jays budget. At the time I thought it was utterly ridiculous but now I am starting to wonder. Of course it could all be a smoke screen and going cheap on a someone who is likely a bench player is just good business and not necessarily an indication of anything else.

    • Offseasons like 2005 and 2012 are the exception for pretty much every single team in the MLB…you can’t actually be nitpicking about payroll with what the budget that Rogers has given the Blue Jays here

      • The Jays aren’t every single team in MLB, though. They’re one of the largest markets in baseball and should consistently have one of the league’s largest payrolls to go with it.

        And yes, it’s quite easy to “nitpick” about payroll considering Rogers’ dubious history in this regard. They cutback almost immediately following the failure to make the playoffs in 2006 and 2007. Could we be following the same pattern again now? That’s the fear.

    • It’s December fucking fifth.

      • That it is, but the signs at this (admittedly early) point are not good.

        I find it difficult to believe that a 74 win Jays team can properly compete with Boston and New York next season without making significant improvements to the roster. Guys like Dioner Navarro and Jamey Carroll are certainly not that.

        • 100% agree

          we dont need a Cano, but we need someone other then Carroll or Goins

        • I’d say turning around C and 2B to the tune of like 5 wins, maybe even six if all breaks right, for the difference in cost between DeRosa/Bonifacio and Carroll or (ideally) Ellis is pretty significant.

          That’s looking at it in a vacuum, of course, and the savings certainly can’t be pocketed– it needs to be spent on pitching– and maybe I’m just trying to talk myself into it all, but I really do think I get it here. Going from a -0.5 win catcher and a -2.1 win Izturis for 400 PA to a couple of two-ish win combos at those positions, with a healthy Morrow, a better start from Dickey and Buehrle, a Stroman or Hutchison looking like he belongs, and one more quality starter? That improvement starts to look pretty vast.

          Sweet delicious Kool-Aid, right?

          • if it breaks right yes, but Ellis, no way to Carroll.

          • If you bank on everything going exactly according to plan and projection, then sure, the Jays can contend next season. But things, as we saw in 2013, have a tendency to not always do that. That’s where making more significant offseason upgrades can help alleviate that inevitability.

            • If the Jays start the season with the roster they have now, I would be willing to bet they win quite a few more games than last year. The catching upgrade is one thing, but a relatively healthy Reyes, Lawrie and Cabrera could make a huge difference. After losing Johnson and not signing another pitcher yet, they still have much better pitching depth than they had last year.

              Obviously you can’t bank on perfect health, but you also can’t expect to see the ridiculous injuries they were up against last year.

              • Plus no WBC this year, which hopefully means a more productive Spring Training.

                That means the only question that will begged to be answered is who tears the shit out of their knee playing a pre-season game on the concrete and carpet at the Big O?

  15. Is it me, or does he look like Josh Johnson’s evil twin brother?

    Certainly we could do worse. But, I think we could do a lot better too. This doesn’t look like World Series stuff to me. And as much as I love Kawasaki, please, for the love of baseball, don’t suggest bringing him back.

  16. “Goins– who some people want to be the starting second baseman for this club– posted a .214/.243/.310 line this season against Triple-A left-handers, and didn’t exactly blow the doors of the fucking barn against them in Double-A the year before, putting up a .265/.326/.381 line.”

    Fuck. THANK YOU!

  17. According to ESPN, Boston is in talks on Matt Kemp and Baltimore is making progress with Usbaldo.

    Glad we’re looking at Colgate Carroll, looks like he’ll cost us a million in toothpaste alone.

    • Hate to say it but Kemp would be a great move for Boston if he is healthy. In fact you could probably argue a slight upgrade.

    • Stop knee jerking around like every rumour is going to come true, maybe.

      • I don’t, I’m just fucking around, mostly wanted to make a crack about Carrolls chicklets.

        I firmly believe it will be Alex who will pull the proverbial rabbit out of his ass and make a splash for someone like Matt Kemp. (like Matt Kemp) Who knows, could be Ryan Braun.

  18. Must be the Expos connection.

  19. If the master plan is to underwhelm the Jays fan base with off season rumour news, so far it’s a job well done.

    • They certainly don’t seem to want to raise expectations. Maybe they saw how that wasn’t really the best strategy last year.

  20. Carroll is kinda interesting., but the thing with old guys is that sooner or later they’re done, even grizzled moss covered stumps like Carroll and Pierzynski.

    Good to hear that Goins is already working with Seitzer. It doesnt mean anything of course, but it seems to me that hitters (if that’s the word) like Goins stand to benefit the most from a guy who preaches using the whole field and making consistent contact. Clearly that’s not a unique coaching strategy, but ya never know, Goins is still young enough to makr some strides. In any case I like hearing that guys are working on their game.

    • I was actually sort of thinking the same thing. You can’t really give a hitting coach a lot of credit for breakouts or whatever since we have no idea what happens behind the scenes, but another weak-bat shortstop made huge strides under Seitzer in 2011 and 2012 before falling apart in 2013 after the hitting coach was let go. I think there are some parallels between the two, so it certainly couldn’t hurt that Goins is getting extra work with the new coach.

  21. That would mean you’d have 3 utiliy infielders. Who then is backup outfielder.

    • They carried Reyes, Lawrie, Izturis, DeRosa, Bonifacio and Davis last year. Plus two catchers, three outfielders, and the two DH/1B

      Same deal here, no?

      Reyes, Lawrie, Izturis, Goins, Carroll, Sierra (for example), Navarro, Thole, Cabrera, Rasmus, Bautista, Lind, Encarnacion.

      Then five starters and seven relievers.

      Right?

      • yes

      • did we cut Gose?

        • Buffalo.

          • Carrol > Gose?

            im going to say you were just bored when you went and wrote this post.

            • Seriously???

              They play different positions. Gose is blocked by Rasmus. Bad choice as fourth outfielder because he’s a LHB and therefore can’t platoon with Lind. Sierra could, though, as could someone from outside the organization.

              Carroll fits the roster puzzle in an entirely different way.

              So the question of who is better isn’t nearly that simple. For this roster, though, as constructed in my hypothetical, it’s Carroll by a wide, wide margin. Gose should keep getting regular playing time anyway, which he won’t here.

              • The big thing I don’t like about Sierra is his inability to play center field. If Melky is healthy, it’s not an issue because he can be an adequate substitute, but if his legs aren’t back to where they should be then they probably need to go with Gose or an external candidate.

              • sorry, should have quallified that a bit more

                Roster spot…..Gose is better Roster spot

                He maybe a left handed bat, and can’t platoon….but….

                he can play all the OF and PR

                find someone to be the everyday 2Bager and send Goins down. Gose gets the spot you put for Carroll, cause we dont sign him. Sierra still gets the lefties for Lind.

                • “Find somebody” is your answer. Wizardry. Again: I’m all for someone better, just saying this works– and is better than many alternatives, such as Izturis/Goins.

                  Gose in a part-time role is far from ideal, by the way. So you’re wrong on that, too.

                  • this works if at 41 he can regain something….so its a stretch to say this works.

                    your using them same magic i see

                    • Read the post.

                    • Carroll does not fit even if he platoons….post read.

                      your Wrong
                      get over it

                      we can’t base this year on hopes and dreams.

                    • Read the post.

                    • I think having carroll as a platoon option is not the worst option, but it is not a smart one, epecially for us trying to contend within the next two years. Carroll had decent numbers in the past yes, and is one year removed, but could just have easily permanantly regressed just cause he is so old. Do we really want to take a flyer on a player that might not bounce back?

      • Except sierra can’t play cf like davis so you need a backup cf, which means you have too many utilty players. Can’t carry 3 2b. it seem sierra must be traded for a guy who can play cf. Any ideas?

        • We just don’t carry Goins then, kinda simple really. You know i’m warming up to the idea of Carroll, if he’s our 25th man.

          • No it’s not simple because izturis defense is horrible and he can’t hit. Not sure why he is even here.

            • He’ll regress back, i doubt he’ll give us as bad a season as last year. And if he really get’s worse, then call up goins. Plus he’ll be part time, not the full time roll we were trying to give year last year.

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    • There’s a reason we’re not ever linked there anymore. (Not the comments but the “bad for business” bit). Which, of course, is totally fair on their part, and we’ve talked to Dierkes about it years ago. But yeah, they run a tight ship in that regard.

  23. Yeah, I’m sorry, but I think if the Jays are serious about contending you need to get Infante or better, or leave the situation as is, and pump the money into the rotation. Not interested in 2 Navarro type deals – will only be really an improvement on the incumbent because he isn’t BELOW replacement level. Either bring in a decent guy, or just bank on what you have.

    Sure, bringing in a guy worth 1WAR would be a 2WAR jump on last year, and hey, 2WAR is worth like 10M, right? Get your heads out of your ass. The jays need a lot more than a 1WAR performance at every position to make the playoffs. Getting better than last year shouldn’t be the goal. It should be about getting better.

    Toronto has invested 130M+ in this team. If they keep trying to patch things up with guys who won’t help them improve, than their wasting a ton of cash. Throw in an extra 7-20M on the budget, and lets see what these guys can really do.

    • Agree

    • Except that these guys will help them improve, because what they got last year was such dogshit. And yes, improving on the areas that killed them last year is major and necessary improvement. Just because you say emphatically that it’s not enough doesn’t mean that what you’re saying is right. They are better than you think already.

      That said, I’m not arguing in favour of worse players over better ones, but this is a doable cheap option, and it’s absolutely silly to say they need Infante or it will never work.

      • I don’t think there is a chance in hell Carroll gets signed by the Blue Jays, unless it’s to back up whoever else they find to play 2B. AA would just get way too much shit for it. Imagine the media and your average joe fan reaction to AA’s announcement of Carroll as the newly acquired champion of 2B. He would be ridiculed, and almost rightfully so. If you are willing to write off Carroll’s atrocious 2013, why not just do the same for Izturis? So again, there’s no way he’s becoming a Blue Jay unless it’s as an after thought move for extra depth. If the unthinkable happens, I’ll be the first to say I was wrong when Stoeten’s post about the Carroll signing comes out.

        • He wouldn’t be announced as anything resembling that.

          More reason to give Carroll a pass on 2013 than Izturis.

      • Not really sure who said this, so I can’t quote them, but it went along these lines:

        “Good teams don’t have shitty players.”

        The Jays have far too many questions marks as it is. If they were in the bottom ten in payroll, in a rebuild stage, looking to maybe get lucky, that would be one thing. Based on the capital in both money and prospects spent, thats not the case. There is no reason for them to just get better. 84-86 wins would still mean that that the whole process was a failure, and they may as well start from scratch.

        Andrew, are you ok with a 150M dollar payroll, and being ranked as the 7th-9th best team in the East? Once you’ve gone this far, you need to really commit. I’d be happier with a firesale than with say Carrol and Anderson being the only additions here on in. At least they’d have some direction.

    • If you think the catching upgrades are worth a 2 WAR improvement and that that’s worth around $10 million, then you should also consider that they achieved that improvement without increasing payroll at all, since Navarro is essentially getting what Arencibia would get.

      That doesn’t make them “cheap.” It makes them smart. If they’re planning on increasing payroll by $20 million, adding two wins for free is just smart asset management.

  24. What do you guys want? Every off season to have some huge blow your door off trade like last year? Have we forgotten the mission statement of long term success? We have a solid core and we have major pieces coming from within our own ranks that will add to the core and make us a better team. We got rid of the worst everyday player in a generation.

    We have Hutchison, Morrow, and Drabek coming back from injury. We have Stroman and Sanchez in the wings. We have resurgence from Colby. We have one of the best offense weapons in the entire game in EE and one of the most feared hitters in the game in JB.

    Dont sweat the offseason so much. AA will get us what we need to compete. Then its the players that have to perform.

  25. What do you guys want? Every off season to have some huge blow your door off trade like last year? Have we forgotten the mission statement of long term success? We have a solid core and we have major pieces coming from within our own ranks that will add to the core and make us a better team. We got rid of the worst everyday player in a generation.

    We have Hutchison, Morrow, and Drabek coming back from injury. We have Stroman and Sanchez in the wings. We have resurgence from Colby. We have one of the best offense weapons in the entire game in EE and one of the most feared hitters in the game in JB.

  26. Anyone else having comments being deleted for no reason?

  27. Patience people. We of all fans should realize pennants are non or lost in november / december.

  28. Carroll would be a great signing… as a first base coach.

  29. For the love of the side arm throw from the hole NO NO NO.

    Goins / Carroll platoon sounds like a barely serviceable option for a AAA team to me.

    Id rather get Infante and no SP than run those scrubs out there.

    If this is what they have I might as well start hitting the cage, doing some sit ups, plan my trip to Florida and walk onto the team ala Willy Mays Hayes.

  30. Fuck it, pull a Marlins/Reyes deal with Cano. Sign him to a backloaded contract and trade him after a year.

    Marlins were genius, got Reyes on what, effectively a 1 year 6 mil deal then flipped him? Lets do it.

    • Couldn’t agree more, they did it with Buehrle and Bell too. Assuming he would sign here, unless he falls off a cliff or gets seriously hurt it would work for sure. And if it doesn’t work at least we took a serious shot at contending.

  31. If anything, at least Carroll could add to his somewhat surprised consistent-looking team photos (scroll to the bottom).

    http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2013/06/26/i-watched-this-on-purpose-minnesota-twins-vs-miami-marlins/

  32. Jamey Carroll just called Stoeten on the phone and thanked him for being the first person to write more than a single sentence about him in his entire career. You know it’s a slow news day when you can write 60000 words about Jamey Carroll.

    That said,, maybe he’s the new Mark Derosa, I’m down with that, why not. They’ll be able to sign him for pocket change.

  33. I thought Oprah’s eyes were far apart, this guy is like a fish.

  34. It’s probably significant to note that last year’s GM meetings were held in NOV and the BIG TRADE with the Marlins was completed in Nov. This year the GM meetings arent til next week so we probably shouldn’t get bent out of shape til after that. But I still dont know about a 40 y/o infielder…..

    • This year’s GM meetings were a couple weeks ago. These are the Winter Meetings that are upcoming– same timing as last year.

      However, last year’s market moved more quickly, especially for pitching. Lots of teams have been waiting on the status of Tanaka.

      • ………………………Nevermind!

        While you’re at it though, how much is ARod’s arbitration holding up
        Tanaka? I would think that he’d (Tanaka) want to hear from the Yankees
        who need to know whether ARod’s going to be with them next season.

        • Arod’s not holding up anyone except maybe Cano to a small degree.

          Tanaka hasnt even been posted yet.

  35. “..Goins, as Shi Davidi noted earlier today at Sportsnet, is currently getting some extra work in with new hitting coach Kevin Seitzer….”

    I like this. Hopefully it’ll give us some early insight on both guys.

  36. I could like this move because it could achieve the following

    A) Gives Izturis an opportunity to bounce back to career norms without being over exposed within a platoon (they’re paying him anyway)…….

    If not, Goins can step into that part of the platoon.

    B) Carrol along with his D is a very decent option against lefties for the money/position.

    C) Gives Goins an opportunity to hopefully develop his bat at AAA.

    D) Gives Gibby a chance to use his platoon special powers!!!! (proof in link)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4SleSgaixs

    E) In an off season still with many shoes to drop, AA may have stablized C and 2B (from dogshit to ok) for about 1 million dollars (remember Navarro gets the earmarked JPA money, and 1 to 1.5 mil tops for Carrol)…..

    AND not one young asset OR compensation pick OR any real money (assuming it’s available) has been wasted before the real need of the team (STARTING PITCHING) has been addressed.

    • I agree with your first point. No reasonable FA option is particularly sexy, in terms of ‘bounce back’ candidates, Izturis is probably ahead of a Ellis or Carroll.

      If Izturis was an FA option, having never been on the team yet, fans and our GM would probably be all over him.

      In terms of potential to bounce back, and the youth needed to do it, Izturis should at the very least be better than he was last year.

      point C) i’d argue though, at this point Goins isn’t going to find value in AAA, he’s like 25 is he not?

  37. I can’t help but think this is Mark DeRosa 2.0. Which actually turned out okay, but I still don’t like the idea of signing Carroll–surely, we could do better than that.

  38. The problem is alex doesn’t know how to allocate money so then he desperately has to cheap out on other positions of need. 20 mil wasted on an injury prone SS with little range and no power and 20 mil on a #4 pitcherin buerlhe and 3mil on a utility player.

    That’s 43 mil on 3 players that should only have cost 15

    • I’m all trolled out after I’ve talked to one troll and humoured myself, so you can just go away now.

  39. I just got a good buzz on playing the DJF “Read The Post” Drinking Game.
    Fun for the whole family.

    • Sign him. He’ll be one of the few people in baseball who can still add to the list of people who played for both the Expos and Jays.

      Oh…and platooning is the new market efficiency of course…

  40. What’s funny is how many people have said they want bad bats with good D at both C an 2B. Then, when a rumour like this hits, there’s all this blowback. This guy isn’t great, but he’s better than last year’s debacle and cheap…

    • Exactly and lots to happen between now and spring training. There are other guys out there available we are yet to hear about. Maybe Houston would move Altuve or Mariners one of their young guys for help in pen if they get Cano

  41. Just want to say that I trust AA. The Vernon Wells deal still makes me smile. Obviously everybody is getting itchy for something. PR needs a big splash. If the giants gave Pence 17 mil then Colby will get 20mil so why not pay Cano now and open up the bench and then Stoeten could go get drunk rather baby sitting us.

  42. What about Carroll’s leadership value?

  43. If the mariners get Cano, do you think it’s possible AA pulls off a blockbuster for Ackley and a starter?

    • Fuggedaboudit.
      The universe will unfold as it does…meaning the Yanks will re-sign Cano and the other top 3 free agents to astronomical sums – as they always do. Period. And the Massholes will scoop up whatever quality pieces that are left – leaving the rest of the league to grossly overpay for the dregs.

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