encarnacion-lind

This isn’t the first time we’ve heard of a possible link between the Jays and the Pirates regarding that club’s first base situation, but why should that stop us from looking at it again? Especially since, according to this tweet from Jon Morosi of Fox Sports, there appears to have been some actual dialogue. Y’know, maybe.

The defensive metrics sure don’t like Edwin Encarnacion at first base, but he provides more than enough lumber to make up for whatever deficiencies he may have there (plus, he looks perfectly passable by the ol’ eye test, I’d say), so I don’t think I’d have an issue with the Jays shipping Lind off to Pittsburgh– or anywhere, really– in that regard. Nor would I have an issue with the club finding a DH (or an even better-fielding first baseman) without such a crazy platoon split. But despite how maligned he’s been over the years in certain corners of the internet (like this one!), and how streaky some may feel that he can be, it’s undeniable that Lind’s is a pretty large bat to be taking out of this lineup in its own right– against right-handed pitching, at least– and would certainly require some additional manoeuvring that might not end up making the club better.

Could the Jays find a pair platoon guys to DH who maybe have some more defensive versatility, and who could maybe even save them a little bit of cash to spend on pitching? I’d have to say I think it’s possible, and an intriguing option. But damn, Lind sure hit right-handers well last year. The last two years, even, believe it or not.

Against right-handed pitching in 2013 he was the 12th best qualified hitter in baseball in 2013, and over the last two seasons, among 224 players with over 500 PA against righties, he ranked 23rd in the split. Not too effing bad!

Needing a caddy or not, there’s some pretty tremendous value there, and for a good price, I think, at $7-million, with only slightly larger club options (with smaller buyouts than this year’s $2-million one) for each of the next two years. In other words, not a guy the Jays should be in a rush to move, but one who ought to net them something of quality in return, plus some flexibility to maybe wring a different kind of value out of the DH position. And with Gaby Sanchez in place for the Pirates, they’ve got an excellent platoon possibility for themselves.

Does Pittsburgh have what we’re looking for, though? Not sure that I see it. They’ve got some great prospects, though that’s not exactly what Alex Anthopoulos is aiming for at the moment, and I’d certainly not think they’d be giving up a MLB-ready starter or a roster player from outside of the bullpen. So, what then?

I honestly don’t know. Maybe we’ll soon find out though! I just wouldn’t hold my breath– it’s the Winter Meetings, after all!

So… there’s that.

Comments (47)

  1. So, Jonah Keri posted a Winter Meetings primer and in it he writes this:

    “One rumor making the rounds has the Jays mulling a blockbuster deal featuring Toronto slugger Edwin Encarnacion and Rays ace David Price. Realistically, though, Toronto has gone too far down the road of adding veterans and trying to win now to justify trading one of the best power hitters in the game, even though starting pitching needs to be the team’s top priority.”

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/85038/winter-meetings-primer-matt-kemp-david-price-and-more-story-lines-to-watch-this-week

    • That would be nuts. Wonder if it would required a 3rd team too…

      Won’t happen…. too crazy… I don’t buy it.

    • Price and Zobrist…and we go after Butler from KC…

      But cant see any of this happening

      • Carlos going to the Yanks mean Butler is safe for now.

        Dont want to see EE come up the plate in a close game in somenoe else uni

      • Zobrist>EE. I think.

        • Zobrist>EE?

          Holy fuck…

          • Encarnacion is a better hitter then Zobrist, but Zobrist brings a lot more defensive flexibility able play his numbers at 2B as well. Looking at overall value, Zobrist rates higher in WAR but that does rate them at different positions.

    • its actually down right moronic to believe that the thrifty rays would trade price for anyone who didn’t have 6 years of control left.

      Or else they’d just keep price

  2. Need. More. Primer.

  3. I guess Jordy Mercer might be a match for the Jays @ 2B. But I don’t know what the Jays do about LF/DH? Melky to DH then Gose/Sierra platoon in LF? But those two are probably two young still for a platoon.

  4. How about they deal Lind for some help at SP or 2B. His contract really is quite friendly so the return could be decent. Include whatever other pieces are necessary to make the deal work,.

    Then go get Loney to play 1B. You’re losing a lot of power, but you’re getting OBP, superior defense and less of a platoon split.

    Just spitballin obv.

    • Loney wants 10mil a year. Lind is better for less

      • Yes. Maybe.
        But wouldn’t Loney + what you get for Lind be better than Lind. Even if the cost is slightly higher.

        And what Loney wants and want Loney GETS might not be there same thing.

        • anything we would trade lind for is going to add to the pay roll. Say you get a 2B, maybe Josh Harrison and some SP prospect….

          maybe a trade for Gerrit Cole

          but then they would be the crazy ones.

          I just dont see this one working out for either team. Lind stays

      • I wouldn’t say Lind is better. Against righties, definitely. But Loney is capable as a full-time 1B against left and right handers (virtually identical splits across the board) whereas Lind is a liability against Lefties (no power, 30% SO rate, and a .208 average.

        So $10 mill to Loney full time or $7 mill to Lind plus another couple to a platoon partner. I’d lean towards Loney, if he wanted to sign and Lind could be dealt easily.

        • Lind lit up RHP. Loney wants 10mil on his D. We dont get the power game tying ability that we do with Lind.

          • I don’t fully disagree with you. It would all depend on the pieces involved and their costs.
            But I do disagree that Loney will actually GET the 10mil/yr that he’s asking for.

          • The power game tying ability? I agreed he’s better than Loney against righties. But Loney is a more consistent everyday player who provides more value to a team than Lind does. He might not hit as many dingers, but he’s consistently good offensively and defensively (.299 avg against each of L and R last year, about a .350 OBP to go with it).

            But what about game tying ability when the opponent brings in a lefty specialist against Lind? Gibby’s scrambling to find someone on the bench with half a chance of getting on base.

  5. I dont want to see Lind traded.

    I was a believer last year this time in him and continue to be. Yes, LHP has killed him. But he did a great job for us this year, almost returned to the silver slugger we fell in love with.

    If his yoga gives him another step forward this year, we will need him to take on a reloaded yanks and an always hard AL East.

    if we want to free up some cash, unload Happ.

  6. ChiSox open to trading Sale. Trade the farm!

  7. Id like to see the Jays put some Lind+ package together for Jamison Taillon.

    • Would have to be an incredible package since I can’t think of any reason that the Pirates would want to deal Taillon.

    • You’d need a lot of + to pry Tallion loose.

    • +1. .. #10 prospect in MLB at the moment. And he’s a Canadian too (At least was born in Canada, I believe).. What’s that Expression I’ve seen around here? Mapledick?

  8. Lind out, Trumbo in

  9. For maybe Gerrit Cole? seems legit, maybe a throw in like Taillon too

  10. Lind to Pirates for prospects.. Prospects + to Rays for Price?

  11. 3 way. Lind for prospects… Prospects for samardjaiuhklhffhi. Frees up DH flexibility and allows a Cruz signing or something of the like.

  12. From Ben Nicholson Smith:

    “Anthopoulos: Blue Jays working on various ideas including one more complicated longshot #wintermeetings”

    “Blue Jays still more likely to pursue trades than free agent signings per AA. Could pursue FA starters in January if prices drop.”

  13. I’d like to see Lind traded, no rational reason behind it but having such flaky, don’t know what your are going to get hitter as a DH year after year gets to me.

  14. I don’t see it. Two teams looking to win now, neither team wanting to deal from MLB roster.

    • This seems to tie in, in a way, with the now-freed British captives.From _Stratfor_ (just bferoe the British were let go): The Iranians, like the Americans, also have found it necessary to demonstrate a lack of intimidation. And for Iran, capturing 15 British sailors and marines was an excellent device The Iranians have shifted the spotlight away from Baghdad and to the southern region of Iraq to the area dominated by Shia and held by the British. The capture of the British personnel coincided with some fighting in the Basra area among Shiite militias. In this way, the Iranians have sent two signals. The first was that while the United States is concentrating its forces in Baghdad and Anbar province, Iran remains perfectly capable of whipping up a crisis in the relatively quiet south where U.S. troops are not present and where the British, who already have established a timeline for withdrawal, might not have sufficient force to contain a crisis. If the United States had to inject forces into the south at this point, they would have to come from other regions of Iraq or from the already strained reserve forces in the United States. The Iranians are indicating that they can create some serious political and military problems for the United States if Washington becomes aggressive.The second is a statement about the negotiations over Iraq. While they are interested in reaching a comprehensive settlement over Iraq, the Iranians are prepared to contemplate another outcome, in which Iraq fragments into regional entities and the Iranians dominate the Shiite south Where the United States has been trying to generate a sense of danger on the part of Iran with rumors of airstrikes, the Iranians have signaled that they aren’t worried about the airstrikes and then raised the American bet by forcing the United States to consider what its options might be if all hell broke loose in southern Iraq. Tehran is saying that it has more credible options than Washington does. Interesting!

  15. Pipe dream, but if they could get Sale out of Chicago for any four prospects the White Sox wanted, and then offer to take on Dunn’s $15m salary as well, they could then use Dunn as the DH for a year and trade Lind to the Pirates for a bag of balls.

    They’d have a $15m platoon DH who is less that the one they’re giving up for half the price, but they’d have Chris Sale for 5yr with the following salaries, according to Cots:
    14:$3.5M, 15:$6M, 16:$9.15M, 17:$12M, 18:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)

  16. Is Logan Morrison a potential platoon partner for Lind? (Assuming you want to do that sort of thing)

  17. I say ship lind out for the highest value you can extract. I’m ready to move on from him.

  18. Stroman+ Sanchez+Goes+Drabek+ Nessy

    . Who cares 6 years of Sale is worth it . unless he comes to Toronto INJURED like all White Sox Pitchers who are traded to Toronto

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