Alex Anthopoulos met with the media for his Wednesday afternoon session today– assuming that it actually is Wednesday– and while he didn’t offer up a whole lot new– which, itself, is nothing new– or suggest that there has been a whole lot in the way of movement, he did actually offer quite a bit of interesting information for us to chew on, I think.

He adds something that I think we’ve understood for quite some time now…

Maybe this is just laughable hopefulness on my part, in the face of a possible “stand pat,” but something about all of this “acquisition cost” stuff actually has me wondering– and it’s a little bit tin foil hat-ish, I admit– if Alex here is talking to Rogers as much as he is to the fans. It could certainly be that he’s posturing this way in order to goad one of his potential trade partners into blinking on a price he feels more comfortable with, but could he also be setting himself up for the conversation about free agent prices with his bosses? “Well, the acquisition cost of all the available trade pieces was just too high– it didn’t make sense for the business we’re trying to run– but… uh… you guys do have all this money…”

Just spitballin’, of course.

Because… yeah, it might just be gamesmanship. Or straight-up honesty, even!

That’s at least hopeful. And with the actual costs of some of the free agents not yet sorted– mostly because of Masahiro Tanaka– it’s not like it’s completely nonsensical that this is where we’re at. There is also another pair of moves that could be in the offing– one small and shortly coming, one big and more of a long-term idea.

That would, of course, be Thad Weber, who will be plying his trade in Korea next season. And then there’s this:

Right? Pretty much exactly what we thought.

So… there’s that.

Comments (78)

  1. Seems as though the cubs and rays want too much for price n the shark.
    Santana, garza and ubaldo cost too much.
    AA waiting for prices and demand to go down, which is reasonable.
    Wait and then commence plan b.

    Thats just… great. I mean, really. What the fuck. So much for replacing Josh Johnson with someone who’s actually worth a shit

    • Hutch will likely be a decent upgrade from the shit Josh johnson was serving up last season

      • Yeah, except that we don’t really know that. Small sample size + coming off surgery = who the fuck knows!

        Johnson did blow chucks, though, so I suppose it would be hard for Hutch (or whoever beats him out of the job in spring training) not to be at least some improvement/

  2. Price is too high for a trade….Earlier complaints about free agent prices. Me smells a flame out of an off-season.

    • Have you considered the possibility that none of the top trade targets are moving and none of the top FA pitchers are signing because most (if not all) GM’s think the prices and acquisition costs are too high?

      I mean, if teams were offering what’s being requested, they’d all be signed and/or traded by now, right?

      • Seems like more than half the impact players have been signed and traded.

        • Not pitchers. Pretty much just Nolasco has signed out of all the top FA’s and Fister is the only big name pitcher to be traded, which we know the Jays didn’t have the option to participate in.

          Basically every FA pitcher we could want is still available (Garza, Tanaka, Jimenez, Arroyo, etc.). Who knows how many SP are available for trade right now?

          • The high impact players were all position players. McCann, Cano, Ellsbury at the top with Choo remaning. Price seems like the only high impact SP available unless although trade targets are unknown.


            • I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I said virtually none of the top FA pitchers have signed, which is true. It’s pretty clear that the Jays are chasing pitching above all else at this time. Never said anything about impact position players moving so far.

              Rasmus was worth over 4 WAR last year, Trumbo has averaged about 2 each year to start his career. It can definitely be argued that Rasmus is the better player.

              • I misread your post thinking you were saying all the top FA the GMs think the cost is too high – you only said top FA pitchers

        • Other than free agents, we really have no idea what is actually available through trades. I think there will be several surprises before its all said and done

    • Would it be better if he came out and said that he is willing to pay any price in a trade or FA signing? Let’s take everything with a grain of salt.

    • Could you consider the possibility that our GM is not and idiot and will not simply give FA’s and other teams whatever they want to make a deal happen?

  3. Posted this on earlier forum, but then this one opened. Does a trade with Seattle make sense? They seem to have the young pieces to fill our needs. Rasmus, Cecil for ackley/franklin, montero/smoak, and Paxton? Too much or too little?

    • I wish people would stop playing fantasy baseball on message boards.

      • Why is that fantasy baseball? Please explain. Rasmus is better then trumbo, and look what he got

        • IT is very debatable that Rasmus is better than Trumbo especially considering Rasmus is about to be a FA

          • Rasmus play good defense in a premium position. Trumbo is not very good defensively. There’s a huge difference between the two.

            • Except you’re trading for one year of Rasmus compared to three years of Trumbo.

              I agree with you, I think Rasmus is the superior player all-around. But I think the years of control Trumbo has added a lot to his trade value, whereas the opposite can be said for Rasmus.

            • Rasmus had one good season coming up, several terrible season then one good one and is about to command a high salary long term deal. Trumbo has been a consistently solid power hitter his first three years in the league (he is just 24 now) with three years of control left. Plus seems that teams are going batshit for righthanded power hitters.

      • Why does it really fuck your life up that bad?

  4. how about every position player except izturis?

  5. You heard it here first Jays will sign Ubaldo.

    After that just have to sign my boy to an extension.

    Two problems for the next three years or so taken care of.

  6. I just saw that Adam Kennedy is attempting a comeback. I’m willing to bet he is our new omar vizquel and I’m willing to be it pisses me off!

  7. I doubt AA has it in him to goad anyone into believing he will stand pat. I think he just says it the way it is.

  8. When we got Josh Johnson we were all thrilled because he was a marquee pitcher who we thought was worth a ton. He wasn’t. Let the dust settle and let us see what we really got in The Trade. These guys looked great on paper last year. I’d rather stick with them than grab another great-on-paper signing.

    And the Rasmus stuff means nothing either way. They are discussing the future with Rasmus. So the message is they won’t be giving him up for a couple of used Louisville Sluggers and a bag of popcorn. It’ll take more than that to prize away our wonderful centre-fielder that we love so much we are thinking of extending him.

    • Letting the dust settle will result in the Jays having one of the worst starter era’s in the league like they did in 2013

      • Only one direction to go from there

      • I don’t necessarily agree with this. Having Morrow healthy and the substantially improved depth at SP in 2014 puts them in a much better situation than last year.

        • What I was meaning was that they can only get better, the one direction they can go from 2013 is up.

          • That starting rotation last year was probably worth a helluva lot more than their stats showed. Buehrle Morrow and Dickey were poor in the 1st half, Morrow was gone for the entire 2nd half and JJ might as well have been gone for the entire season. So you had guys like Rogers Redmond Wang and Ortiz putting up numbers as starters when in fact they were never intended to be. Hopefully RAD Buehrle Morrow and whomever is 4 and 5 will be much better. I’ll go further and say “they can’t help but be” better in 2014.

    • Just because he got injured you don’t go and bury your head in the sand and do nothing. We all wanted upgrades at the time. We needed them without a doubt. Unfortunately, we had bad luck. Shit happens. At least we had a chance. Without those trades we had jack shit.

      • I’m not dissing The Trade. I’m saying let’s see if these guys who were injured and lousy last year when they were supposed to be strong and brilliant can be strong and brilliant this year. I’m validating The Trade! I think Dickey and Buehrle righted themselves after the ASS break and I also think Hutchinson and possibly Drabek can contribute at this level. I just don’t want any craziness. The sky hasn’t fallen on the 2014 season yet. And even if AA stood pat until Opening Day he still has a bunch of guys that we all thought had a chance to win the WS. And so did everyone else. The off-season isn’t a contest to see who swings the biggest wallet.

        • That’s probably why AA is taking so long to make a big move, he’s only gonna do if the value is there. I don’t think he’ll stay pat though, the rpices of the starters may go down in january, he may pounce on it then.

          • Agreed on all….I think ! RAD Morrow and Buehrle will be better and even without adding a #4 and or #5, Drabek and Hutch will be around to fill in. Personally I think AA is holding off for the prices to come down and also for the value of his available relievers to go up. He seems to have a great idea of what the market is doing.

    • Speak for yourself I wasnt thrilled with Johnson and it was clear there was very little depth in the Jays rotation last year. He was very very far from a sure thing to be good last year – a big gamble.

      This years rotation looks better than last years even if they acquire nobody. I think Drabek in particular could surprise.

      • Big gamble is a stretch, he was coming off a healthy season and was entering free agency with us, he seemed like a fair gamble at the very least.

        • well nobody would have predicted how bad he actually was that is for sure. Was a high risk high reward type guy whether that translates into fair gamble or big gamble is semantics. I like the depth of viable options that may emerge for the jays this year over one high price high reqard guy with little depth insurance there was last year. Johnson Vs Hutch, Drabek, Redmond, Stroman I take the latter. Of course now Romero is also not seen as a lock in rotation but going into last year propsects werent exactly good either

  9. Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow and TWO internal starters = A long painful season

    • I think you are being way too critical. The top 3 are very good. Internal options are at the least decent, and potentially can be pretty good.

    • Yep, without a trade to acquire a solid starter or the signing of Jimenez or maybe even Garza, this team is still 4th or 5th in the division

      • According to fangraphs, our WAR totals compared to the Al east are currently in third if that interests you.

    • No JJ = addition by subtraction

    • Lets add up some potential WAR for that rotation:
      Dickey: 3.5
      Buerhle: 2.9
      Morrow: 2.8
      Hutch: 1.8
      Happ: 1.1
      Drabek: 0,9

      so that meaningless estimate adds up to 13, the Red Sox starters last year had a WAR of 15 I believe. So answer is Yes, I have nothing to add.

    • Jays rotation could be stellar with no additions. Could also be one long painfull season.

      Equation should be Dickey + Morrow + Buehrle + 2 internal starters = ?

      • “Jays rotation could be stellar with no additions”

        Whatcha smoking? Can i have some?

        • And why not? Happ could easily be above average 5th starter and any one of Drabek, Hutchinson or Stroman above average #4. Dickey and Morrow could be solid top of rotation and the same old from Buehrle. That would be stellar. Not to mention the many other potential options that although not likely to be above replacement level on any one of them one or two could emerge and put in a good season.

          Of course Morrow could be hurt, Dickey average, Happ, Stroman and Drabek worse than replacement level.

          Everyone seems very quick to write off the jays rotation as is this year. Give these guys a chance before proclaiming doom. Its not Josh Towers and JoJo Reyes we are talking about here.

          Of course it would really solidify the team to add two more reliable vets to fill out the rotation – doesnt mean they will be completely horrible without them.

        • The Jays rotation could very well be stellar with no additions.

          I mean, if Johnson and Dickey can be nonsensically bad last season, surely Dickey and Morrow can be nonsensically good this season? It’s not like they don’t have a track record of being good. And star prospects–of whom Hutchison was once, and Stroman is now–could easily turn into solid rotation pieces.

          I don’t know that you’d bet your life on the above happening, but it’s certainly possible.

  10. Romero + $5-7M for Joe Blanton. Make any sense?

  11. Anyone know about the quality of the Korean league compared to that of the Japanese league?

  12. so many guys under-performed their careers norms last year.

    either guys now suck (unlikely) or, the team is good. it did win a bunch of games in a row at one point before everyone got hurt. remember that?

    when AA took over, 2014 is when i realistically expected prospects to start showing up making an impact. not “the last possible year they have before AA gets shitcanned for being such a colossal fuckup” there’s a reason stand pat is a legend, and it has something to do with patience being a pretty good virtue. i mean, jack z used to be a “wizard” in his own right back at the start of his tenure, it’s worth remembering.

  13. I’m just wondering if we want Ubaldo or Santana and how much would we have to spend. I’m thinking 6 years and 90 million

    • Gross.

      They’ll wait for the Tanaka stuff to shake out and likely sign for much less than this. But to get them locked up early in TO it would cost an awful lot.

      • You do realize that if the Yankees, Redsox, Seattle or the LA teams want tanaka, then they will sign him.

        How can the Jays compete with those teams? Tanaka in Toronto is a long shot.

  14. Hard not to look at this team and not think they need at least one more good mid-front rotation type starter to really contend.

    If a trade isn’t realistic right now, then fuck it! Overpay a starter FA and deal with it, Rogers. What’s the point in coming this far and not really going for it?

    • +1

      I don’t see how signing 1 of the free agents would break the bank. Wouldn’t we have paid josh. Johnson 14 million plus anyway?

  15. Wow. Logan Morrison to Seattle for a relief pitcher?

  16. Colon to the Mets. Shit. There’s one down.

  17. Why are we so convicted that AA hasn’t been aggressive with his offers to starters?

    With the new posting system we could have a lot of teams willing to post the max bid and then see where the negotiations go with Tanaka. That’s a lot of teams tying up resources and all but one of them will enter the FA SP market after its settled.

    Unless its a king hell of a deal why would you agree to pitch in a homer dome in a completely different country instead of waiting for other teams to enter the market? Teams closer to your family. Teams with likely lower tax rates. Teams with pitcher friendly ball parks.

    Jays likely have to overpay FA pitchers a bit anyway. Right now the overpay is likely a hell of a lot more than its worth.

    • Exactly! Which is why frustration is setting in. The rotation as it stands is not good enough and every reasonable person see’s that.

      Maybe I just need more patience

      • Yes, you do need more patience.

        • I think what’s been lost here is how badly jp Riccardi fucked the minor league system creating a huge void in talent. AA is getting blamed for poor player development yet how long does it take for picks to develop? Rarely is it the current regimes fault for poor AAA and Aa depth, unless they make a big trade. AA big trade only included one triple a position player, and hech but we got back reyes so who gives a fuck. Johnson killed our dreams, but they were shit on real earlier by the likes of Dave Bush, and Wang and the rest of the grubs I’d like to forget. I for one know this team is better and can stand pat. I also loathe myself for loving a team that so many clueless panicky idiots love.

  18. So how much longer is Bob Elliott going to get away with spewing bullshit rumors until his credibility finally takes a hit?

  19. I think the Jays will end up signing a FA starting pitcher, for example a Garza or someone similar that can chew big innings. I think the trade route will be too costly for Toronto’s farm system and at the big league level. Giving up on Rasmus, Bautista etc. is tough and the replacement options to allow for that just aren’t good enough. If your interested on how the jays may look next season, this article has an interesting viewpoint: http://www.gcconnected.com/?p=319

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