halladayterminator

To answer the question posed by the title of this post, um… apparently!

Also: WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA?????

I know I was wholly dismissive of the whole Halladay thing the entire time– because, honestly people, cut the damn cord– but that’s pretty damn cool and/or shitty.

I don’t really have any other thoughts to offer about that here, except maybe to add that he sure didn’t make it sound like he was that serious about pitching again in 2014 during his retirement press conference at the Winter Meetings– but then again, why would he? And while I don’t know if any of us who remember Dave Stieb’s aborted 1998 comeback really would have wanted to see a broken-down Doc getting his head handed to him in the AL East next year, or that much marginal value being pissed away on warm fuzzy memories, but um… fuck it, because that would have been pretty damn awesome.

Comments (127)

  1. Maybe they can convert him to a knucleballer.

  2. Fuck, they would have had his salary paid for in Jersey sales alone. It would be cool to have him along especially for Hutch or Stroman or Drabek.

    • That last thing… uh, no.

      • Really? I think they would like the role model Doc hanging around. I imagine a lot of that is BS bur it wouldn’t hurt.

        • worth a 25 man spot though? Nah

          • Worth a spot for sure if he was good enough but he obviously wasn’t so in the end no but if he was you can do worse for a number 5.

            • I’m pretty sure if he could pitch like a number 5 starter, we would bring him on and trade Happ away like now lol.

        • Was seen as pretty intensive – could be good or bad for a coach. Obviously is likely quite the student of the game, knows a lot about pitching and definitely had the work ethic to pass on

  3. Remember how Jeff Blair and co. spent the last, like, 3 years trying to build up this big wedge between the organization and Halladay for how his exist went?

    Even if all of this doesn’t quite add up with what Doc said in his press conference, it certainly seems like there were no hard feelings anywhere.

  4. Classy move though considering how Blair natters in and in about how Halladay had the org by the testes and squeezed.

    I remember when they left Brandy told Wilner that returning for a final kick at the can was something they talked about at length.

    Would have been a sweet finish to his story to win one back in TO.

  5. Also it would have been sad to see his shit die in a BJ uniform…life has a way

  6. I was kind of hoping the talks of his injuries were overblown just to trick the Phillies into trading him to us for nothing and his one day contract would get extended.

  7. I still say let him pitch home opener

  8. If he was on the fence about retiring why not wait until the spring to see where you are at? Give the old arm some rest and see if it brings back any strength. He was pitching in September in games anyway so that is like only a few weeks off.

    • he said in his retirement conference, the issue isnt the arm, it’s his back, he’s been battling severe back problems for 2 years now, which forced him to change his mechanics, which then caused the arm injuries.

      He’s done

    • It’s his back that made him retire,not his arm.

      • Ah makes sense then.

        Lots of different kinds of back injuries but back problems often just need rest and rehabilitation and have full recoveries. Given his makeup and age I wouldn’t be surprised to see a successful come back in a couple years.

        • Again i doubt it, he says he has difficulty doing even daily tasks at home, i do not forsee him pitching at the MLB level again

          • I’ve had the old back injury and have talked to lots that have and researched. It can be crippling, I didnt sleep for 5 days straight once in agaonizing pain hardly able to move. But the body can sure recover and lots of guys come back being very active without issues after serious problems and extensive missed work. Of course MLB pitching is a little more intensive than rec league ball and hockey but it isn’t uncommon for full recoveries through rest and rehabilitation.

            • Recoveries becomes less common and slower with age.

              And pitching requires torque beyond anything we do in our normal lives.

              Not going to happen.

  9. Also does anyone find I say also too much?

  10. Someone asked Klaw in his chat today about the chances of a MLB team ever going back to a 4 man rotation. While he said it was doubtful, Klaw did add that the Jays almost went to one when he was still working for them, heavily backed by the Doc who wanted to pitch ever 4th day. Cory Lidle was against it and the idea died.

    Fuck Halladay was a specimen. If only Michael j Fox would lend me his Delorian.

    • Why not have 8 starters and have them each throw 3-5 innings a game on 4 game rotation – 2 in each game? third time through starters get hit hard. Leave the aces in there for longer if they are on their game.

      • I was thinking even more starters. They should let the peanut vendors throw a few innings. One of them hit me right in the numbers from 9 seats over and 2 rows in front of me.
        I held onto the bag.

        • Nice sarcasm. Point is you could go down to 4 man rotation but have them pitch less innings each game and not have to pitch to guys the third time through the order always when they always do much worse it seems. Whether you consider the other guys starters or long relievers have some guys in the pen that go 2-3 innings most often instead of everyone in the pen going 1 max usually.

          12 man staff
          4 starters
          4 long relief
          LOOGY
          2 setup
          c loser

          • Interesting theory but I think it’s about giving the starters more rest in between starts.

            • What is the rest between starts theories based on? Seems likely that that is just what they started doing and it seemed to work well so they kept doing it. Used to be starter goes till they are done then another guy comes in for the rest. Now it is 5 guys throw as long as they can to start then a bunch of guys come in for a little bit. Maybe someone in between the old and new is actually ideal.

              I question if it is based on much science at all and less days between starts wiih less innings each start and some pen guys going 2-3 innings could easily be better health wise and baseball strategy wise

              Certainly would take a progressive team to buy in and starters would be very against it since they would go less than 5 innings and not get wins

              • It would take an extremely desperate team and until the MLB adjusts rules on Wins you’re never gonna see it happen.

          • Oh, sorry. Didn’t realize you were serious.

            Interesting, but in a sport that took 30 years to institute instant replay this would seem pretty radical.

        • They would have to get the vendors on a weighted king can program to get their velocity up. Control has never been an issue.

      • I’ve had this thought too. I mean they actually sort of do that sometimes in the minor leagues while building up arms.

        It may even be that over the long term, it is less a matter of how many innings you throw, but how many times you go past a certain number of pitches.

        Like 3000 pitches in one day would put you in the hospital. 3000 pitches over 10 starts would injure you most likely. 3000 over 30 starts is considered normal, but you still have lots of injuries. Maybe 3000 pitches over 60 “starts” or 3-4 inning stints is way less stressful.

    • Kudos on putting “Cory Lidle” and “died” together in one sentence.

  11. I wonder if the Jays would consider using Doc as a mentor for Romero as he is someone who can relate to failing horribly and rebuilding from scratch.

    Maybe it’s too late for Romero but I can’t think of many players who succeeded then failed and then succeeded more spectacularly than Doc.

    • Romero wouldn’t be into the idea. He’s a cocky, hard-headed shit. When Halladay was there, the young guys couldn’t stand him because he was too serious. I remember Cecil and Romero right after Halladay left remarking in an interview with Jamie Campbell how they felt like there was a heavy air lifted from the clubhouse and now they could all be leaders with Halladay gone.

      Yeah….that worked out really well…

      • I’m pretty sure his ego’s out of the window now that he’s been outrighted twice and nobody wants him.

      • I dont know how cocky he is anymore, being outrighted off of the 40-man roster.

      • Ha Mark, I don’t know if I would call him a shit. But his JPA-like proudness has not helped. His tone has bordered toward finding some fault with the Jays for his troubles. I mean come on dude.

  12. I know he was probably done but fuck me if I didn’t just make the strangest sound on my conference call when I read this. It would have made me so fucking happy to see Doc in a Jays jersey again, even one more time.

    Cue Stoeten saying “happier than having them actually, you know, win?” Shut up hypothetical Stoeten.

  13. What a shame! Deep down we all hoped that would happen. Would have been so cool.

    Even if Roy could just have been a decent, mid rotation guy at this age … imagine the 2014 Jays in the playoffs with a return of Doc? God. Ah well.

    • For Facebook Jays fans, this would be their wet dream. Actual, knowledgeable baseball fans…uh no. Cheezus, there is a pitcher in my beer ball league that’s available, why don’t the Jays call him? Fuck, quit all this talk about Halladay pitching again. Give him a coaching job. make him a scout, roving instructor, special assistant to the groudskeeper, whatever…have him handing out bobbleheads on game day…but for fuck’s sake, let’s move on from the Halladay era.

      • Actual, knowledgable baseball fans wouldn’t find it cool if a (healthy, not terrible) Halladay pitched for the Jays again? Please.

      • Guess I’m a Faceboon Jays fan whatever that is.

      • Sorry you just became a Jays fan in 2010. The preceding 10 years were kind of fun for the rest of us though, so maybe fuck off.

  14. Who knows maybe he goes off to Germany for half a year and they work the same magic on him as they did Colon lol. Obviously not going to happen backs are a whole different story, but that would be a cool story all the same.

  15. Watching Steib, another all time favourite Jay of mine, pitch when he was a shell of himself was depressing. I’m glad Doc hung them up when he realized he was done.

    • True. It was nice that Stieb pitched enough though to be on the bench in 92 and get his World Series. Maybe Doc can get one in a coaching capacity.

      • Sounds like he wants to be involved with the team as a spring training coach and front office guy. Hentgen’s been pretty good. Why not Doc too.

  16. It’s really cool that he wanted to come back. But similar to when an ex gf comes back to you she is usually a lot older, damaged, injured and a shell of their former self.

  17. It’s not sad that he’s not doing it, it’s sad that he can’t do it.

  18. Does anyone have the number for Bartolo Colon’s stem cell guy?

  19. He should give the weighted ball a go, get that 86 up to 91, be good enough.

  20. Reading different reports of the Butler and Weeks rumours yesterday it seems that maybe Jays were getting Butler for prospects then flipping Lind to MIL for Weeks. I’m not all that high on Weeks – not for Lind straight up anyway. Maybe a couple other parts in there would think MIL would be giving up more. Would leave Jays pretty short on lefty hitters

    • Lol u kidding me about not sending lind for weeks straight up. Maybe look at his stats beyond last year

      • Um maybe you only read the first part of the post?

        I’m not all that high on Weeks – not for Lind straight up anyway. Maybe a couple other parts in there would think MIL would be giving up more.

      • Rickie Weeks plays crap defence, strikes out a tonne, and makes 11 million dollars – no thanks

        • Couldnt agree more – Weeks I dont want. Just seemed from the rumour reports that is what the rumoured trade was about

        • Weeks is at least a third option at second and is most likely going to be better than goins and at a minimum his platoon partner. No doubt he has some talent. Hopefully someone better than weeks though.

  21. End of Sept – Jays lock their playoff spot down, Halladay comes out of retirement and pitches one batter.
    Jays go on to win the World Serie &s Doc gets a ring…

    BEST. PARADE. EVER!

  22. I hope he throws the first pitch at Jays opener. I would luv to make the 6 hr road trip to Rogers Center to experience that.
    The roof will come off the old dome when he walks out to the mound.

  23. Still your best Photoshop effort, Stoeten.

  24. Wish we would have signed Gamel.
    Minor league deal, could DH and play first.
    Low risk.

  25. This will be Stoetens favorite Q and A from todays B.A. chat:

    Dan (Toronto): Who are some of the prospects in the system that the Blue Jas feel have the best make up/character

    Clint Longenecker: Great question, Dan. Mitch Nay is widely praised for his work ethic, intensity, love for the game and ability to take to instruction. Tom Robson, who improved as much as any Jay this year, really took to the organization’s instructions and has makeup that allow his tools to play up. Tangentially related, two years ago I was sitting with a Blue Jays crosschecker at an extended spring game and he was raving about Robson’s makeup. He called Robson “an All-American type of young man,” which speaks volumes about his makeup and is also funny because he is, in fact, Canadian. Labourt, who lost a lot of weight and became a fiercer competitor, also draws praise.

    • Did he add that all those guys kinda suck?

    • There’s value in make-up/character stuff as it relates to work ethic and ability to take instruction. Obviously. That’s not magic bullshit about being able to make those around you better just by being a unicorn sitting next to them.

      • He’s here!!!!!!!

        I knew I could roust him out of hiding.

        You guys owe me for making Santa show.

        All provocation aside, excellent work on all the …well .. work this week.

      • Guys can be a distraction if they are aholes and sleep with other guys wives etc or are constantly negative getting down on their teammates. We dont see any of that. Things portrayed about attitude and harming chemistry are often not things that actually would.

        Escobar is a good example – who wouldnt like to play with a fun loving guy who plays hard like him? Maybe the front office, coaches or media didnt like how he played and carried himself but I doubt any teammates had any issues and likely he was good for team chemistry if anything. Yet media circles often talked about how he was a bad seed for chemistry.

        For all we know it icoulb be the last guy you would expect that is the ahole pissing all the other players off and creating issues in the clubhouse.

        • See, but that’s talking about the magical kind of chemistry stuff. Players succeed and fail in all kinds of environments, with all kinds of teammates and coaches, and with all kinds of pressures on them, from a very young age. Extraordinarily difficult to make it to the big leagues if you’re dramatically impacted one way or the other by that kind of stuff.

          Attitude towards instruction and aptitude for learning, though, can be difference makers, but get lumped in under the broad definition of chemistry, I think, with all the other bullshit.

  26. So the other day, Im at New York La Guardia Airport waiting at the top of the gate. Who walks off the plane first, dripping in tats and rocking out his Beats headphones is Brett Lawrie.

    I shake his hand and he nearly pops my knuckles off like my hand was some kind of fuckin’ stress relief ball. I asked him semi concerned (fucks the Yanks) what was he doing in New York? He points to his parents behind him and says he was there with the family to see his sister. I couldnt remember, but I thought he said she was having a baby.

    Anyway, the flight attendants approached immediatley after if that guy was my friend and who was he? Im pretty sure I heard a collective muffled orgasm by all the females in the vicinity of the gate. I told the girls, no he is not my friend, I mostly get drunk and swear at him, he plays 3rd base for the Toronto Blue Jays.

    They had no idea, but they did know they wanted his baby. I now know his backup plan for baseball will be a RedBull swilling porn star.

    • That’s hilarious. I saw AA at Pearson back in 2012 just after Spring Training, but I didn’t approach him. It was late at night and he probably just wanted to get home.

    • Awesome.
      I still prefer when you flew the Trailer Park Boys though.

      • Alfonso, I wanted to get a pick with Lawrie for the DJFs but I was worried I was going to look like a fan boy.

        Smasher, I coulda got in shit for imitating Bubbles and calling him a COCKSUCKER!!!!!!!! on the job.

        Good times. Im such a celebrity lurker. :)

    • That’s funny, I ran into Paul Beeston in the mid 90′s at LaGuardia airport. Talked to him briefly. He was wearing dress shoes without socks in mid winter.

      • Hahahahahha.

        Its funny what we remember about people. That certainly fits his style of fashion.

        Did his coke bottle glasses adjust to polarization and go dark under the bright airport lights?

        Ill bet you 2 Skydome beers he was also wearing an argyle 12000 count Moroccan hand made cardigan with arms folded over his chest.

    • Couple years ago, the spring after his post-callup explosion, I flew into Newark and had a Jays hat on as I went through customs. Guy kind of looks at me funny, asks stuff about my occupation, and is like, “You write about the Blue Jays?” I’m like, yeah, and goes, “You got dat Brett LAWrie kid, huh!” And it was smooth sailing from there.

  27. I dunno, I didnt find Dave Steib’s ’98 comeback as depressing as Stoeten and others did. Guy still held his own as a 40 year-old. It was actually a dignified cap to his career, especially given what happened in ’92.

    Pat Hentgen in 2004 on the other hand…

  28. Rest. then have him watch the Rookie around Aug1. Back in Sept.

  29. Can you imagine a rotation of Halladay, Steib, Hentgen, Clemens and Dave Steward – purely from the INTENSITY standpoint.
    I mean, Halladay was the Terminator, Steib looked ready to bite the heads off birds, Hentgen was just a bulldog, Clemens brushing guys back….and Stewart with that gaze over the top of his glove??
    Jesus….I’d be scared to dig in at the plate.

    • Henke was the terminator not DOC. Koch was an intense guy too.

      Get Lawrie out there on the mound and see how much intensity he has. Maybe if AA doesnt pull off any moves we can try to intimidate the opponents by having Lawrie go throw at them if the first game is a blowout

      • Yes, I know Henke was the Terminator….(the Henkenator) – but Halladay had the same robotic, single-minded, totally unwavering concentration of a Type 6 – only a decade or so later.

  30. Loney re-ups w/ the Rays.

  31. Infante signing w/ the Royals.

    This should get things moving more from AA’s end on some of those deals if it required other teams to make a move first, like getting the best remaining 2b off the market or signing one of the more known 1bs in Loney

  32. Maybe Roy shows up in the RA Dickey class come spring? Roy knucklesdown! Possible?

  33. I am pleasantly surprised that Doc wanted to come to the Jays. If he was healthy enough to pitch like a 4th or 5th starter, fans would still be excited to see him back.

    I think he would be a great addition to the coaching staff.

    • Please don’t do this.

      • @Tom.

        Are you outraged that a future hall of fame pitcher wanted to come back to Toronto?

        Halladay could have just retired without coming back to Toronto.

        IIRC, Halladay was frustrated that the Jays would not be able to compete for the playoffs after 2008 , so a trade after 2009 made sense for both parties.

        AA was excited to get prospects like Drabek etc…

        As someone posted in the past few days was that had the Jays kept halladay in 2010 , they would have won more than 85 games & had a shot at the wildcard.

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