Here’s an interesting item that still needs further confirmation before we freak out over it (which we totally shouldn’t anyway, FYI): according to… uh… well, according to this guy, uh… this:

CSN Chicago passes the item along, and their skepticism is noted:

Whether or not [ESPN college basketball colour commentator Dan] Dakich has become a source of Cubs news is still up for debate, but there’s at least one person at the Worldwide Leader in Sports who felt the info was suitable for public consumption.

So have the three (or possibly four) pitchers that the Jays have been looking at most seriously just been reduced in number? I don’t think I’m comfortable enough believing one guy on a college basketball telecast to say yes, but… could be. And would be interesting to see how Alex Anthopoulos moves from here if it’s true.

How about… oh, I don’t know… a damn free agent that you don’t have to give up any prospects in order to get???

Anyway, we’ll keep our eyes on this to see if anything develops… at least until it’s time to go out for a rip.

Update: It’s bullshit.


Crotch grab in the direction of Matt Clapp (aka @TheBlogfines) for the heads up.

Comments (211)

  1. If the price for him is anywhere near as high as the rumours, then i’m glad we didn’t do it.

  2. Fuck em

  3. Dont believe it. Kenny ken ken would be all over it if that was the case. Not some random CBB commentator. But yeah, garza would be preferrable to shark anyways.

    • In reality, given the cost in assets, sure. In a vacuum where it’s just about the pitcher, give me Shark.

      • Not to mention garza has a say in where he goes.

        He’s always pitched well here, but who knows where he prefers

      • Rogers does everything on the cheap… So why even bother going after this guy only to low ball him on an extension.

        This team is stuck in the middle, blew their wad last season and now want to act like the paupers of the league.

      • I’m trying to figure out what the stat or number is that makes Samardzija preferable to Garza in a vacuum. Is it just the durability issues? Also, I notice that Steamer really likes Samardzija next year so that’s something.

  4. Unless the other teams come down in price or AA gets seriously antsy I still think Ubaldo will be the guy the Jays get.

    • Reeaaallllyyy hope its not jimenez. Walks way too many guys for the AL East. Patient teams like nyy and bos will eat him up. Results have been very spotty the last few years. Would be a mistake signing him. Their primary target should be garza. If not him, santana is ok.

      • I’d take Ubaldo over Garza quite easily. Huge advantage in durability. Two seasons better, by fWAR than Garza’s best. Five seasons above +3 fWAR (compared to Garza’s two, plus one at 2.9). Also think the price will be significantly lower because the market/bidding war for him isn’t going to be there due to the draft pick.

        There’s a case to be wary of his second-half turnaround after a year-and-a-half of being bad (quality of competition being part of it), but I do think he was a different pitcher, and even when he wasn’t good he was able to give you innings that they so badly need. So I definitely gamble on him before Garza.

        • A bad Ubaldo is somewhat like Romero’s last full year, stats will prove me wrong I guess but it scares me in that with the money committed he will stay in the rotation way longer than he should if the shit hits the fan.

      • I agree he walks too many guys but over the last 2 years they’ve been nearly identical in total fWAR, and Ubaldo was clearly the better pitcher last year.

        Garza also made just 42 starts in total over the last 2 years. He’s going to cost more than Ubaldo, and with his injury history do you really want the Jays and their black hole of pitching injuries to get a hold of him? Out of all of them I would have preferred Anderson or Samardzija but if we have to take one of the free agents I’d like to see Ubaldo. Maybe Ubaldo gets some of his lost MPH back from the weighted ball program and he gets closer to the beast he was in his early Rockies days.

        • With Garza you know what you will get on the mound will be good. You just don’t know if he will be hurt and how many starts you will get

          WIth Jiminez and Santana they are likely to be durable but big variance in how they may perform, could be good and could be bad.

          For Jays baseball wise I prefer Garza since they have lots of fringe starters so wont be calling on complete scrubs if he goes down and is worth the gamble.

          Long term contract may tip the scales to Santana or Kiminez since they are less likely to have their arm fall off

      • If it wasn’t for that one year in Cleveland where he was god awful, you’d be paying close to 20 mil for Ubaldo. That number is now closer to 15, which is pretty decent value. The rule with FA pitchers seems to be that you’ve gotta pay them 5 mil more per season than you’d like to. Scott Kazmir and Scott Feldman are good value at 5 mil, but not so much at 10. The fact that you could probably pay Ubaldo exactly what he’s worth is a deal in itself.

  5. Sign Jimenez and Floyd and call it a day.

  6. #TeamUbaldo

  7. They’ve already said the story is bullshit.

  8. Know what else is bullshit? This snow! Da fuck?!

  9. with all this BS flying around, can we have a post about Reyes’ music video shoot?

  10. Don’t know if this was mentioned, but a Texas Rangers blog says Tanaka will not be posted:

    • Interesting. I figured that since a lot of the Japanese businesses operate like collectives there would have been the pressure to adhere to the new rules. and post him anyway.

      Also I heard the other day that the owners of the other teams were chipping in to make up some difference this time around. Could be a load of shit, but who knows.

    • That’s a “FanPost” linking to an article that mentions the comments coming in an interview with Peter Gammons, who has not said anything of the sort.

      Let’s maybe not go throwing around the word “reported” so cavalierly, eh?

  11. I prefer ubaldo myself to giving up sanchez

  12. If another team sees Stroman as a future 2-3 I think you need to sell high on him. I don’t know how to value Sanchez well enough yet to comment on him.

  13. Sign Garza and Ubaldo RIGHT FUCKING NOW! Trade Lind to the Pirates for Jordy Mercer to play 2b and sign Kendrys Morales to DH. Off-season over, Riggs is happy. I’d also sign Mark Reynolds to take a spot on the bench, can fill in at 1B and 3B if necessary and is a power bat for pinch hitting.

    Fire away the insults!

  14. Ubaldo’s declining velocity seems a little worrisome.

    If Stroman & Sanchez are the price for Shark, I’d pass.

    However, if it’s something like Stroman & Drabek, that seems reasonable.

    Shark is already a #2/3 starter with upside.

    That’s the ceiling of Stroman & Drabek and, in all likelihood, we’re talking about 2 relievers.

    • I believe Stroman contributes in the rotation this season, and wouldn’t dare deal him. Sanchez isn’t going to contribute for 2 fucking years, and is still a prospect at this point. If one has to go, make it Sanchez. BUT, why trade any of our assets? Spend the fucking money.

      • Agreed. If you have to deal one of the 2, deal the one who isn’t ready.
        But I wouldn’t trade either of them for Samardjia.
        If a “true” top of the rotation guy becomes available then deal some of the top prospects. But not for this hillbilly.

        • The interesting thing is, there just isn’t that many, if any, true top of the rotation guys out there that seem to be available and because of that you’d have to expect to pay for them through the nose for the ones that are like Sale. Take a look at the list below, that’s them ranked by fWAR for the last two years. Other than Lee, Hamels, and Sale the rest of the top 30 are all on contenders and aren’t likely going anywhere. To me that’s all the more reason that AA must have screamed in frustration when he learned he didn’t get called about Fister.

          Burnett isn’t going to sign here so scratch him off the list too. The next 30 on this has a bunch of great names but most aren’t what you consider top of the rotation or they belong on the first page but have had injuries.

          I would love to know who AA is actually targeting. Personally I would love some kind of deal for Lee. They way I would see it working for the Jays is that prospects the Jays give up for him would be equal to how much salary Philly would pay. Pay more salary get more prospects. I would gladly give up one of Sanchez or Stroman + others for Lee if Philly took on enough salary for the next two years.

          • There is a lot more value in signing a free agent like Ubaldo, or even Garza(Ubaldo is on my wishlist, personally), then trading for Lee, paying him 50 million for two seasons, with the possibility of 27.5 for the third, or buy him out for 12 million. By the time you factor in the price, and the assets given up for one pitcher, who has been good in the N.L., I honestly think we would be better off signing a free agent, sacrifice the 2nd round pick, and watch Sanchez and Stroman for the next 7 seasons, then to get a pitcher who is likely due for regression, with switching leagues and getting up there in age and usage. If we were to pay a high price in terms of prospects, Price would make 10 times more sense then Lee.

            I hope AA signs someone, and keeps Stroman and Sanchez for the time being. 14 years combined of controlability would make the team a heckuva lot more flexable in the future building of the roster, then to try and fill those holes from outside of the organization later down the road.

            • Trade Rasmus plus a BP pitcher for Cole Hamels and sign Jiminez You can than trade Santos and Happ for a Kendricks 2B. This will cost you a bit in RF, however, the budget will be around 155 million.

              But you are starting pitching will be solidified for a very long time.
              Dickey, Hamels, Buehrle, Morrow and JImeinez with solid BP.
              Goes replaces Rasmus in the outfield. Hitting at 2b more solid,for what you lose in the Outfield.
              Finally, when all your other pitchers-Starting Pitching is retired or to be traded, you still have a number 1 Pitcher in Hamels.

            • Stop with the “good in the NL” garbage, please. And not just because Lee killed the AL when he was in it, too.

              • His A.L. numbers don’t even compare to his N.L. numbers, in his case, except his 13 starts in Seattle. He don’t think he can maintain his level of success into the A.L. east, and then factor in the cost of assets and contract. Their are alot of better options that would make alot more sense and maintain roster flexibilitity, then to hope that a guy who will likely meet one of the inning limits that kick in the third year at 27.5 million or 12 million buyout. For a season in which he’ll turn 38. Look how dominant Halladay was at 34, then his last two seasons. I’m not saying he’s going to break down, but I doubt he’d be worth the assets, let alone the portion of the payroll his one contract would eat up, even if he could maintain his success. He’s never been known as a hard thrower, but I doubt his low 90′s fastball wouldn’t play well in the band boxes of the A.L.. Probably just as well as his short stint in Texas, but at 77 and a half million, it’s one colassal risk I couldn’t see AA evening dreaming of in a million years. But i could be wrong.

      • To be fair, I think there’s an argument that Shark is better and has higher (realistic) upside than anyone currently available via free agency.

        The walk rate can improve with time.

        He already has velocity, strikeout ability, has shown some durability all while having a relatively fresh arm.

        There’s a lot to like about him.

        That said, I agree that spending the money might be the best path.

        • At times I can almost talk myself into trading for him if they had the same kind of option they had with Dickey in extending him. Same goes with Bailey. That said, that’s probably a stretch for the younger guys who know they have time to make money compared to Dickey and wouldn’t be as likely to do so.

          Also, looking at how rare, good, young, controllable pitching is, I really see where AA is coming from in not being so quick to move guys with such high ceilings. 6 years of control for each along with the expected success of such guys is really a lot.

      • Jays are cheap, it’s the most obvious answer. Everything they do is on the cheap. They are the Pacific Mall of the MLB.

    • Agree with you on the price for Samardzija, it’s pretty steep for 2 years of control. That said, are you giving up on Stroman as a starter already?

      • The chances of Stroman being an effective starter at the Rogers centre seem slim.

        Though I’m all in favour of keeping him a starter until proven otherwise.

        But perhaps his value is as high as it’s ever going to be…

        • You base this off all the times you’ve seen him pitch?

          • I am not qualified to scout these guys so watching them wouldn’t make a difference.

            Law, Hulet among others question his ability to remain a starter.

            Even if he remains a starter, there are questions about his ability to limit the longball which is obviously an issue pitching in the RC.

            There are few, if any, mid-rotation or better starters as small as Stroman in the recent history of the league.

            Along with the fact that the odds are stacked against every (pitching) prospect, there are a lot of reasons to consider using him as a chip to get a #2/3 starter with upside, in my opinion.

            Though I’d still prefer signing Burnett over the above option.

    • He is #4,5 with upside. Stroman and Sanchez no way. Sanchez straight up maybe

  15. Although I should add that my #1 choice would be signing Burnett for 1/15 or 2/30.

    If he’s willing to come back to Toronto, he seems like the best #2/3 starter available considering the acquisition cost.

    • I agree…but oh my god it’s intolerable listening to the Toronto media mouth breathers call him a .500 pitcher…

  16. Who’s getting their drink on tonight? Stoeten, you a beer guy or the hard stuff.

    I smashed a bottle of rum over my head last night, hence the weird link to well endowed girls driving in fast cars.

    Song is good though.

    I have faith in AA. I think he’ll outwait Hoyer and we’ll get Samardjia for some lower tiered prospects.

  17. Holy shit is AA ever confident in our current roster.

  18. Would the Yankees would trade us Nova? We need more pitching. I offer Gose, one of Loup/Delabar, Redmond, Romero and a minor leaguer.

  19. Let’s just sign Ubaldo and just be done with it. I wouldn’t mind if that was the only move they made all offseason. The jays have an actually surprising amount of depth in their starting rotation.
    Go Stroman!!

  20. What starting pitchers have been acquired so far this offseason?

    Brett Anderson

    That’s it, right? So, there’s still the free agent pool, plus whatever trade targets might be out there. The whole SP market has been crazy slow to get going. I think the Jays are going to get something done. Maybe swoop in and sign an Ubaldo or Santana if their value drops a bit because other teams don’t want to forfeit a pick.

  21. We had our Christmas team party. Had 5 Astro-Turfs which are Jager jello shots.

  22. How’s the head this morning Smasher…….hope not as bad as get after a shooter night.

  23. Serious question: are the Blue Jays a better team right now than the Royals?

    • I’d lean towards yes. Starting pitching is better on paper. Lineup is better on paper. Bullpen is a wash.

      • Royals have the better bullpen, and perhaps the best one in the league. And with the rotation, I’ll take Shields over Dickey, Duffy over Morrow, and Davis over Happ – with Vargas and Buehrle being essentially the same. Assuming we sign Jimenez, you’ve got a pretty good omen of what he’ll be at 34 in Jeremy Guthrie. Blue Jays line up is better but it’s also much older and injury prone.

    • All about health. Starts with it and ends with it. I think they’re definitely more talented overall especially in the rotation. That said, KC is going to have a good team this year and their division certainly will favour them just like the teams in the West. They are really solid defensively.

      To me this team has the chance to have a top 3 offense especially if they can get a league average bat for 2nd. Part of me believes that if they get at least average production from their rotation like the 92 and 93 teams, then can pummel their opponents into submission.

      If this team ends up adding a strong starter then they’re going to have an awful lot of pitching depth to see them through the season.

      • Yeah, in the AL central I still don’t think the Royals are good enough to top the Tigers, but I’d now put them in second, above the Indians, with a real good chance of getting a wildcard spot.

        And with the Jays, I am getting more optimistic. New York is still way too old, and believes it can win with a dogshit rotation. The Red Sox are definitely not as good as they were last year, with an old rotation, and major regression expected from Napoli et al. But the Rays still scare me. Their rotation is fucking legitimate – even without Price. And Longoria is good enough to carry an entire offense.

  24. One more 2nd baseman off the market. Ellis looks like he’s signing with the Cards.

  25. Cardinals nearing 1 yr deal with mark ellis. One less 2b option for AA in free agency. Looks like that upgrade will have to come through trade.

    • The M’s have a second baseman to trade in one of Franklin or Ackley.
      However, in the AL alone, the Blue Jays, Yankees and O’s
      are all looking for a second baseman, while the White Sox would like an upgrade.

      Would not be at all surprised to see Kawasaki (or a guy of similar skill) signed.
      He would join Goins and Izturis in a triumvirate that would cover 2nd base
      and the two backup infield spots.
      The rest of the bench would be Kratz or Thole along with a 4th outfielder (Sierra?)

      • O’s might try to go with Weeks…maybe?

        • Weeks is a bit of a lottery ticket. They might re-sign Brian Roberts and at some point in time bring up the youngster Jonathan Schoop. If Weeks works out, bonus.

  26. Have to wonder with the Jays waiting and waiting on fixing up on their rotation if they are getting left behind for 2nd baseman solutions. If budget is the overriding issue you have to believe they’re waiting on seeing how much they will have to spend on the pitcher they are after.

    • Hard to believe the Jays couldn’t offer Ellis a starting role over being a backup for the Cards. I know his bat isn’t much but it’s close to league average and he still plays very good defense.

  27. Matt Garza to the Orioles: 6 yrs., 84 mil. – 14 per.
    Ervin Santana to the Diamondbacks: 4 yrs., 68 mil. – 17 per.
    Ubaldo Jimenez to the Blue Jays: 5 yrs., 80 mil. – 16 per.
    Masahiro Tanaka to the Yankees: 7 yrs., 126 mil. – 18 per.

  28. If the Jays are serious about making a run this year, they pretty much have to sign a guy like Ubaldo and use prospects to gain a better 2B. I’m confident that the top 3 of the rotation will rebound (Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle), but the rest of the rotation looks turribell.

    If the Jays falter again in 2014, do:

    A) The Jays blow the team up? Or,
    B) Does Anthopoulos get fired?

    • False.

      • They have a lot of options for SP, but are any of them really considered good enough to give quality innings? Todd Redmond might be okay if he could keep the ball in the park. Happ is pretty viable as a 5th starter. But they most certainly need another quality arm in the rotation, and 2B should be addressed.

  29. … and there goes the Mark Ellis train.

  30. If the season started tomorrow, the rotation would be Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow
    and two of Happ/Hutchinson/Drabek.
    Also available is Redmond along with longer shots
    McGowan, Rogers, Jenkins, McGuire, Cecil and Romero.
    Stroman and Sanchez are on the way.

    They might just sign a cheap insurance policy like Jerome Williams or Bruce Chenn
    and hope that someone emerges from that group to give them the kind of year
    that Cleveland got from Scott Kazmir or Oakland got from A. J. Griffin.

    I’d be disappointed if that happened, but I would not be shocked.

    • I bet if the 4 pitchers that AA has alluded to do not pan out, then that’s the exact scenario.

  31. Mark Ellis signing not only makes me mad because the Jays SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THAT SHIT! But, because I also own Kolten Wong in a dynasty league.

  32. Yanks get a possible top of the rotation starter without paying a thing with Pineda announced healthy and ready to compete for ST. UGH.

  33. So Ackley/Franklin, Ricky Weeks, cuban kid Diaz, Gordon Beckham, Daniel Murphy, maybe Asdrubal Cabrera… does that about sum up the remaining options at 2B? I suppose Brian Roberts is out there if you want to go the extreme injury risk way. Unlikely that Stephen Drew could be convinced to play 2B

    • If they refuse to spend money, trade for Gallardo and Weeks fuck it.

      • Well that move would spend a lot of money in itself, though maybe not long term. I’d probably rather roll with Goins than pay a very expensive, unlikely bounceback candidate like Weeks. I do like the sounds of the cuban guy, though he can’t be signed until Feb.

        • You’re probably right there. Weeks is just a sexy name, but Goins UGH.

          • My thoughts exactly on Goins, though somehow the Cardinals managed to get by with giving nearly 500 ABs to Pete “.217/.275/.273″ Kozma. I think Goins can certainly be better than that with similar defense.

        • But the Jays need someone to replace JP’s strikeout production. Weeks would be a perfect fit for that, like a JP 2.0 second base edition. The OBP is awfully high though.

    • Phillips is best option but may not waive no trade to TO. Pull off Phillips and Bailey that could be the off season but assume Rasmus would be part of deal so maybe sign a CF. Cant imagine Yankees don’t get Phillips if he waives the no trade to them. Gardner for Phillips seems like no brainer for them.

      Drew at SS would be a good pick up. Reyes could switch and be good at 2B as he ages while at SS he is already below average.

      • Don’t think you are moving Reyes off of SS any time soon as nice as that would be from a defensive standpoint. Also I don’t think guys like Philips would cost a team as much in a trade at this point. I am sure Cincy would love to get out from under the $50 million he is owed and allocate it elsewhere, perhaps to an extension for Bailey. The same would apply to Lee in Philly if Amaro is seriously committed to a rebuild which unfortunately does not look to be the case yet.

        • Phillips would fit great with the jays with his contract. If he is cheap in a trade and can be traded to Toronto it would be great pickup to solidify this team.

          Why not move Reyes of SS? Dont give me this he wouldnt do it. It is best for the team and Reyes is not Hanley Ramirez. Would not expect him to make a big deal of it, his ego is small. He is signed long term anyway and is best for his potential next contract since it wont be very appealing to sign a guy who cant play passable SS defence and to put at DH he would be old and have declining wheels as best tool

  34. I think AA, and most other teams in the market for free agent starting pitchers, are waiting for the Tanaka situation to resolve. I feel that his contract/posting situation will be an important benchmark for the rest of the market.

    Especially with the new posting system, which creates more competition and higher acquisiton costs to teams looking to bid. Of course, he has to be officially posted before he is truly available as a ‘free agent’.

    Ultimately, its the uncertainty of Tanaka’s cost and availability and the recent success of Japanese league pitching such as Darvish that is making the free agent starting pitching market so slow this off season.

  35. Day 3 of my beer testing experiment. Thus far I have came up with 2 conclusions.

    I suck at built-in beer.

    If I was a GM of any fucking team they would be the worst team in pro sports bar none.

  36. What pray tell is built in beer….am I missing something here. I suppose everyone is drinking built in beer and I’m the last to now about it.

  37. Ubaldo Jiminez is a joke. ERA+ of 72 and 77 in 2012 and 2011. Pitchimg in the AL Central. Walked 95 in 176 IP in 2012. Costs an asset as well as looking for his payday of a lifetime. Only a fucking idiot would pay a fortune for this guy to pitch for the Jays. The East will tear this guy up.

    • Yeah, cant say I disagree. Not a fan of his.

      • To add to that, garza is a proven perfomer in the AL East. Jimenez walks A TON of guys. Thats a big problem in the AL East.

    • I don’t get why Ubaldo gets all the attention. Sure, he’s been much more durable than Garza, but Garza is far more consistent. Especially in the AL East.

  38. From Gregor Chisholm blog…AA re Adelmys Diaz after the Rule 5 Draft:

    “Does the bonus pool money impact the Cuban shortstop that has been working out in Mexico?
    “No, he’s too old, it’s irrelevant. Sometimes you have guys that are out there, we’ve signed some guys for less money, we’ve spent the bulk of our July money, there are some guys that are still out there, depth guys, and how many times have we seen international signs, $80,000, $100,000, $200,000 that emerge and become really good players. There are some guys out there that we want to take a shot on and why not if we can get the cap space.”

    Sounds to me as if AA is not interested in Diaz but there’s some question as to whether he’s interested in another International signing.

  39. I wonder if AA will bite the bullett & make a strong bid for Tanaka?.I can understand the risks because we don’t know how he will pitch in the MLB.

    • I hope he does. If the top tier of current free agents are asking in $14-18 million dollar range and none of them are consensus #2 starters or better as Tanaka is rumoured to be, then I think it would be worth it to go a little extra over that per year. That said, if it is open bidding for his services, money will probably end up being a secondary consideration for him and choosing the city and team he wants to play with will become #1 on his list. If that is the case, the Jays probably have no chance in hell. Not sure how you compete with cities like LA, Boston and NY when the money aspect becomes secondary.

      • Well, you have to offer more money lol.

        • Yep but we are not the Mariners, Dodgers or Yankees so as long as Rogers owns the Jays and AA is in charge, it is unlikely, but of course not impossible. I think it pains AA deep down in his soul when he has to contemplate
          bidding against other teams for free agents.

          • @sandlott

            very good points.

            I do wonder if Rogers would have given AA more money for 2014 if they had won 85 games in 2013.

            AA could argue he needs 1 more player to put the Jays over the top.

            There are more question marks this offseason.

            If the Jays get 85 wins in 2014, maybe AA will get a bigger budget for 2015.

  40. I really don’t think AA has any money to spend.

    • That’s the multi-million dollar question but I think that is not the case entirely. Any trade for samardzija or Anderson would have added $5-10 million to the payroll in 2014 assuming there were no pieces on the mlb roster going back. Outside of Santos who was rumoured to be involved, AA has stated he didn’t want to create more holes to fill with the same trade. Maybe a trade like that would have added $5 million to payroll and left him room to address 2nd base. All I know is that it seems the back log with the starting pitching is holding everything else up which again makes sense if he’s on a budget. Obviously he wants to do the most with what he has left.

  41. No need to fret until opening day.

  42. No panic, the team, as is, is pretty good.

  43. I got an idea. Let’s sign Stephen Drew for a fortune, give the Red Sox our draft pick, and move Reyes to second. Sure it’s a stupid idea but not as stupid as U-baseonballs-doh Jimenez.

    • Way better idea than having Ryan Goins as the starting second baseman with NO playable backup infielders in the minors.

      • No it’s not. Finished last last year. Won’t make much difference whether it’s Goins or Drew. Not as much as giving our draft picks to the Red Sox. Now that’s stupid.

        • I’ve got news for you: Whoever signs Drew ( other than the Bosox), gives Boston a supplemental pick at the end of round 1 granted by the league-the team signing him is irrelevant. The team signing Drew simply forfeits their first pick . If they have no first pick, or it is protected,(jays) then they forward the 2nd pick. End of story. Bosox will get a pick out of this no matter what.
          Now, other than that, your idea is asinine. The Jays themselves would need to offer him at least 3/30 to get him and forfeit the round 2 pick

        • It would make a huge difference. Goins is not a MLB capable starting player. Drew is above average ss. How is there not a difference there?

          Goins at 2b would be the most pathetic starting position player on any contending team in the league, assuming the yanks upgrade 2b

          We are going to argue that having a black hole at second is acceptable because we don’t want to give up a second round pick?

          • The Jays aren’t a contending team. All the people proposing these fantasy baseball trade/FA scenarios seem to miss that.

            • Agreed. We are close to being a contending team if we can manage to shore up 2B and SP

          • Wow that’s pretty harsh, granted he doesn’t have the best bat in the line up but he has excellent range and a strong arm. Defensive metrics have to be taken into account not just hitting.
            Would I prefer an upgrade at 2nd base of course but I don’t feel that he’s the worst 2nd baseman in the major league. In fact he’s light years ahead of what we were fielding at the start of the year.

  44. I blame Aaron Hill. Why did he have to start sucking after being awesome — and then go back to being awesome? Inconsiderate fucker.

    • WTF happened anyway? Seemed like such a nice guy too.

      • Nice guys make the best baseball players. Maybe he had a Vitamin D deficiency. He looked pale and sickly an awful lot. Being in the Arizona sun helped him out…dunno

      • @Karl sagan.

        After his 35HR season, I wonder if thought he had to be a pull hitter.

        He struggled in 2010 & by 2011, the baseball experts in this town wanted him traded for AA’s favourite Kelly Johnson.

        The Jays have messed up the 2B position since Hill was here.

        I am happy he is doing well in arizona.

  45. I have a nasty feeling that the people whom the front office report to have taken a ‘you bought him, you’re stuck with him’ approach to Maicer Iszturis and won’t loosen the purse strings enough to allow for a decent 2nd baseman as well as another starter. Which means Goins will likely be the main guy at that position. At least he can defend.

    Of all the things AA has done, the Iszturis acquisition was the one that made the least sense to me at the time. Only thing I could think of is that he thought the Jays fairy dust would turn him into Marco Scutaro.

    • Scutari was another great blue jay. Remember when he stole a base on a walk ?.

      • Yep. And Maicer Iszturis ain’t him or anything like him. The guy is a big $$$$$$$ hole in the middle of the budget.

    • I can’t get bent out of shape on Izturis. Before he got here he had decent career numbers and fairly decent defence. He could turn out to be an honest mistake. As for Hill, well, what with all the videos and coaching help they have, it doesnt make any sense that HE couldn’t fix himself. But it seems to me that they did the same thing to Rios too. After his big year he absolutely tried to hit everything out of the park with that uppercut swing , ending up on his back foot. Thats a bad coaching error.

    • So, for the life of me I could not think of why people would have had a really hard time with the Izturis signing when it first occurred. I mean, you could think it was a bit too long or not totally necessary. But to say it’s the least sensical thing that AA has done. And to say that back when the signing first took place (without the benefit of hindsight) seemed very odd to me.

      So I went ahead and looked up the thread for the original signing last fall. Here it is:

      Most people seemed relatively ok with it from the look of things. One commenter in particular said the following:

      “This works for me. Not too much money. Seems to be an upgrade on KJ….”

      That commenter was “isabellareyes”


      • Indeed hindsight is everything, no one predicted Izturis’ production to fall off a cliff. He’ll probably regress back to more acceptable numbers. Not good mind you, but acceptable.

        • Agree. Plus he pops the odd HR every once in awhile. Interesting reading all those comments when he was signed.

          Also most people were ok trading JPA for Dickey straight up. The fact that AA got the whole trade contingent on RAD signing an extension may have cost Syndergaard D’Arnaud (instead of JPA) and Becerra. Makes you wonder.

      • You’re right and my bad! But I do remember beginning to wonder whether it was a good signing in the wake of The Trade. It’s not an excuse and hindsight always is 20/20. But my feelings towards that signing changed after everything that came later. At the beginning of the off-season it was all ‘let’s see them prospects!!’ and then as things got rolling it was ‘let’s win now’. And Iszturis didn’t seem to fit into that mind-set.

        • Well it’s possibly they really did change their approach when the opportunity arose for “the trade”

          also I’m not sure I even agree with your general premise because I think the izturis of old (pre-2013) would have potentially been a pretty useful utility guy for a winning team.

    • I think we all need a reminder that Izturis is likely our best option at 2B right now.

      If not it is Goins and Izturis is the only capable infielder we have after the 3 starters. The cupboard is entirely bare for Jays infieldiers. We have Reyes, Lawrie, Izturis and Goins. After that there is NOBODY who can ever be expected to have near as good of a year as Izturis did last year!!!! He is likely to be better this year.

      Please AA acquire a warm body or two who can infield. It is going to be a long year otherwise. Reyes is an injury risk and so is Lawrie given how hard he plays. We need a starting second baseman, a second utility infielder and then have Goins in the minors for MI depth.

  46. Very disappointed for this off-season. Not for the lack of moves to improve our team but more for the lack of moves to provide off-season entertainment.

    If this keeps up I may have to start watching basketball.

  47. I’m starting to wonder if we even need to add a starter this offseason or we should go with what we’ve got. When you hear the price for the Shark and how every team is frothing at the mouth to add starters, the price is going to be insane this offseason. Now with Tanaka possibly off the market it’s just gonna get worse.

    Instead of trading Stroman and Sanchez for SP help, why not just go with Stroman as a 5th starter. Rather than give up the rest of our top prospects or spend $100 million on Jimenez, Santana or Garza we should go with our internal depth this time.

    Would a rotation of Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow, Hutchison and Stroman be that bad? There are other options for that 5th spot too with Nolin, Drabek or Sanchez (likely ready midway through the season). Even if one of those backend guys is not ready we could start with Happ or Rogers in the rotation, at least as placeholders, and there’s probably another depth guy we have that I’m forgetting.

    • I’m not convinced McGowan can start but he IS their latest ” project” and we all seem to overlook him. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go with some kind of platoon system til the super 2 date on Stroman.

    • The rotation we have now would ok. Adding a starter would make it much better. Right now our rotation is projected to produce 12+ WAR for 2014, adding another starter would boost it into upper tiers and give us more depth.

  48. Anyone else hear “Jose Bautista is an island in the clubhouse” story on Primtime Sports on Friday?

    • It’s bs

      • I agree, the reason they nitpick on him is because every losing team need a scapegoat and he is their best player and natural leader.You wouldn’t hear or care about these rumours if we were winning.

    • Is the island called the Dominican Republic and also include 5 other Jays players?? I don’t understand how people would say Bautista divides the clubhouse when he has one quarter of the team as fellow countrymen and speaks the best English of all the latin players so he would pretty much mesh with everyone on the team.

      • I have no idea what goes on in the clubhouse… but I’m pretty sure you can’t assume he is well liked because of where he is from or what language he speaks…

        • I’m not saying he is well liked. I’m merely using common sense to suggest he is not on an island, which would mean he has no friends and bad communication in the clubhouse. He at least has 4 teammates (Cabrera, Reyes, EE, Rogers) in his corner as dozens of photos about how close they are would suggest. But maybe there is a larger divide between him and the others than we know. I’m not sure how Bob McCowan would know what goes on in the clubhouse.

  49. The goedert era has begun!!

  50. It is seriously ridiculous on how competive our division is. All 5 Teams are in the 20 of team WAR and 1.5 WAR difference between the Orioles and Yankees, 3.4 WAR difference between the Yankees and Blue Jays. 2.8 between the Jays and Rays. and 4.8 between the Rays and the Sox.

    We have a legitimate chance of having a division with a record above 500 next year.

  51. The ‘this guy is too short’ argument is a prevelant one not just in baseball but in any sport.

    The reality is, that claims can be like ‘few pitchers his height has ever succeeded’ because few pitchers his height ever made it to the minors let alone the majors.

    having been apart of the scouting for universities in canada and in the states, the body of the athlete is important and short kids simply aren’t looked at the same, so very few of them ever keep the passion to keep going.

    Its not like there is 10 pitchers every year who fail due to their height, its minimal, and stroman is very athletic for someone his size. His stuff is filthy and as long as he can keep a downward motion to the plate, he can be successful.

    • Right now he has diverse pitch arsenal, but his only true plus pitch is his slider which makes him risky to becoming a really good reliever. But his results have shown he can start in the minors no problem so far. I have faith he’ll become a good starting picther for us.

    • stroman is crazy athletic… the question is whether his height makes him prone to the gopher ball due to ‘lack of plane’ or however you want to phrase it. he has given up more HRs than you’d like to see from a top prospect in new Hampshire… and I think its fair to say that pitching in the AL east with half you games in the RC is not the ideal environment for a pitcher who has HR issues.

      maybe its just a small sample at AA and he won’t have HR issues going forward… but for now it is an open question.

    • I agree. I think Stroman will be fine at 5’9. There’s a certain height where it is a big advantage as a pitcher, I’d say guys who are a legit 6 foot 3 and taller. Myself I am about 6’1.5 almost 6’2 and I’ve never felt “tall” on a baseball diamond, football field or basketball court. If you are only 5’9 like Stroman it’s not like you at a huge disadvantage to the 6′ or 6’1 guys like Tim Hudson or Roy Oswalt or the 5’11 Tim Lincecum.

      The only thing I wonder about Stroman is if in fact he is really 5’9. I’ve stood next to both Kyle Drabek and Jesse Litsch who are listed at 6’1 and there is no way in hell they are even 6. I’d give Litsch no more than 5’10 and Drabek is maybe 5’11.

      • When i hear the “too short” argument,I think of ex-Jay farmhand Tim Collins.

        I agree with dc that the height bias is prevalent, not only in baseball but other sports. I know of a AAA hockey player cut from a team at the age of 12 because of his height,not because of skill.
        At one college showcase,there was a 16 year old throwing low 90′s who confided that he’d been overlooked by scouts because of his height.
        The prejudice is definitely out there.Whether he’s 5’9″ or 5’6″ is stuff is still reportedly filthy.


          I posted this link about 150 comments ago. I really think he’s nearer to 5’6′ or 5’7″, but that doesn’t matter to me. If the guy can do it, let him do it. Steib had a wipeout slider and look how well he did. Bring him up around the super 2 date and give him the rest of the season. Then you’ll know.

          • Should mention also the article shows his fastball at 93-94 touching 96 at times and he has an average curve and change as well.

            • he’s got good stuff… I don’t think anyone would suggest otherwise. the issue is that his HR rate was essentially double nolin’s rate with both guys pitching out of the same park and nolin having a hell of a lot less ‘stuff’.

              is the HR rate because he is short and pitching with less ‘plane’… or is it just an outlier data point because of the small minor league sample? I get the sense that there are scouts on both sides of the fence.

  52. The dbags acquired reed from the white sox for a decent IF prospect (top 100). I wonder if anyone in the jays bullpen (delabar or santos maybe) would have similiar value to reed. If thats the case, hopefully AA can find a decent 2b prospect.

    • Didn’t Reed stumble at the end and fall out of favour with the coaching staff? I would hope the Jays could get at least that for one of their bullpen guys.

  53. I wonder if Alexei Ramirez could be had for a reasonable price. He’s been a pretty consistent player over his career and plays good defence, runs the bases well and has an ok bat. Under control through 2015 for $19.5mill with a $10mill option for 2016. Not a bad rate for a guy who’s averaged 3.1 WAR over the last 3 years. He’s 32 and presumably does not fit into the white sox’ rebuilding plan, so they’d be motivated to trade him if the Jays could offer up some decent ML talent. Fits AA’s plan of having SS style defence at 2B, and the Jays have done business with the sox in the past

    • Should mention that his already mediocre power numbers have been in pretty steady decline over the past four years. ISOs .149 -> .130 -> .099 -> .096. He’s basically just a decent, but empty batting average at this point. I still like his defence and baserunning though

    • You have to remember the reason why Ramirez has a 3 war season is because he is a shortstop. So unless you want to move Reyes to 2b and have reyes lose his postional value, go ahead.

      • True, but if he’s moved to second base, he becomes an even better defender compared to the average second baseman, so he makes up for some of the losses.

      • “So unless you want to move Reyes to 2b and have reyes lose his postional value”

        Are you a player agent or a fan of the jays who wants to see the team be good?

        Need to think about what brings the most value to the TEAM not what one players value becomes if he changes positions.

        Clearly Ramirez/Reyes for middle infield is better than Reyes/Goins regardless of who plays 2nd and who plays SS. If Reyes can move to second we have upgrade at SS defence and 2 solid bats. If Ramirez goes to 2 he can hit unlike Goins and will be solid D.

        Reyes likely actually gains positional value at 2B since he can likely play better defence there than at SS. You think he loses trade value if the jays play him at 2B for a year? Likely gains it if anything since now he has experience at both spots.

        • Precisely. Ramirez would be a nice way for the Jays to shore up the MI, regardless of who plays what position. The Chisox are motivated sellers and the Jays are motivated buyers, I’m surprised no one as put these two dots together before. The only issue is what the Jays would give up, clearly the sox would ask for Sanchez, Stroman, to which I would say barf unless the sox could send something more in return.

          • If Sox and Jays line up why not Beckham as earlier rumoured? Sure he isn’t a star player or anything but is a MLB capable and proven player and could be gotten without breaking the bank in prospects we would presume.

            2009-2012: OPS – 808, 695, 633, 668, 694

            Nothing spectacular but the other option is Goins who is unlikely to crack 600 OPS. If Goins is run out there everyday I almost expect a worse season the Arencebia had last year at the stick – I guess he might not strikeout as much.

            • Beckham wouldn’t be the worst – solid defensively and he’s shown at least some improvement with the bat in recent years. I don’t mind Goins figuring to get substantial playing time next year, but at the very least I’d like an insurance policy at 2B, cause currently there’s nothing between Goins and random “Ramon Ortiz style” AAA fodder except Izturis who may be completely done on both sides of the ball.

  54. Question…

    I always see in potential Jays rotations Hutch pencilled in as a5th starter… where does Drabek sit with regards to options? For some reason, I want to say hes out, but I could be (read: probably am) off on that.


    • Drabek has options. Personally I think he is a big wildcard for the Jays this year. Could be a big surprise if his arm holds up – lots of upside.

      8 guys on jays don’t have options – 7 are pitchers – McGowan, Rogers, Redmond, Santos, Jeffries, Cecil and Luis Perez. Happ has an option but can refuse a demotion due to service time or something.

      Assuming 8 man pen

      Option Pitcher

      Option Pitcher

      Leaves 2 spots for: Jeffries, Redmond and Perez.

      but we have Hutch, Drabek, Stroman knocking on the door and any signing takes up a spot too

      Be interesting to see if they option Loup just to not lose a player on waivers. Wagner deserves spot but likely wont get it since he has options.

      Or hopefully trade some guys and get a 2B!!!

  55. Posting agreement’s finalized. Kind of an interesting system. Now let’s see what happens Tanaka.

  56. For Price I would consider Stroman and Sanchez, for this dude, not a chance in HELL. I hope AA dropped the phone on the floor on account of the hilarity of that request.

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