garza

Another one bites the dust. And this one, in particular, was a name that Alex Anthopoulos has reportedly chased for quite some time. Or, at least, who we’ve been passing along rumours about for probably three years, as today we learned that Matt Garza has signed with the Milwaukee Brewers for four years and $52-million.

Ken Rosenthal had it first, tweeting that a physical is still pending, which could be a thing, but probably won’t be.

Like all of the remaining free agents, there were warts on Garza. His medicals, in particular, have been rumoured to be fairly ugly, and over the last three seasons he’s only made 12 more starts than Brandon Morrow, who certain Jays fans seem to think is made of breakaway glass (even though that’s, y’know, dumb). You don’t hear him get a lot of high marks for his off-field stuff, either, but when Garza’s been healthy, he’s certainly been effective, posting sub-4.00 ERAs in seven straight seasons.

The ERA stuff doesn’t exactly translate into great advanced numbers all the time, though. He was worth 2.2 wins, per FanGraphs this year, and 1.1 the year before. Baseball Reference has him at just 1.2 and 1.4 wins for 2012 and 2013, though their calculations like his 2011 season a bit more (2.9) — and that’s not nearly as much as the FIP-based FanGraphs one did (4.9).

Ervin Santana and Ubaldo Jimenez, who we still all believe the Jays are eyeing (as they damn well should be), have been much healthier over their careers and have been much better more recently. Aaaaand they’ve also been much worse. By now, I’m sure you know the story. (If you don’t, I wrote about it here — just scroll past the Tanaka pipe dreaming).

We’ve never really thought the Jays were going to go as hard after Garza as they would the more durable, and deeply-discounted (thanks to draft pick compensation) pair, and now we’re hopefully seeing why Alex Anthopoulos has been playing an infuriatingly frustrating waiting game this winter. Just $13-million per year for four years is the best Garza could do, with no draft pick tied to him? It’s actually exactly almost exactly in line with the results of the contract crowdsourcing project at FanGraphs – they had Garza getting four years and $58.7-million, and had Jimenez and Santana not getting even that much — but hardly the kind of big number we were hearing rumoured on some of these guys earlier in the off-season. And as much as the medicals certainly must have made teams queasy here, surely there must be about as much concern about Ubaldo’s year-and-a-half in the lost-velocity/unrepeatable-mechanics wilderness, and Santana’s 39-home-runs-in-a-damn-pitcher’s-park disaster of 2012.

Could a GM justify giving even that much to either of those two, and giving up a draft pick, when they wouldn’t on Garza? Maybe. And maybe they’ll find some added leverage with one less pitcher on the market. But I have a hard time believing it, especially if we’re talking about a team who’d have to give up a first-rounder — which, of course, the Jays won’t. Anthopoulos then, is perhaps exactly where we’ve thought all along that he wanted to be, with the market playing out exactly as he expected.

I’m not sure if fans ought to jump for joy because the team seems poised to get a pitcher on a contract far less than his original expectations — Jeff Passan tweets that as recently as a week ago Santana’s price had gone down to just a $60-million, four-year deal, which at this point seems highly unlikely — but if that’s what it’s going to take for the Jays to just sign a damn guy and not stand pat or blow more prospect capital trying for one, or maybe two last humps with this uncertain roster, you kinda can’t help but not.

Now they’ve just got to go out and actually do it. (And then add a second baseman, too.)

Comments (186)

  1. I would have been happy if the Jays signed Garza to this contract. Seems like a decent deal, especially considering MLB salary inflation.

  2. Stoeten did you hear the latest John Gibbons radio hit where he said it’s 50/50 the Jays acquire a starter? and referred to payroll “limitations” – a “soft limit…” and more directly “personally, if something doesn’t happen we like what we have.”

  3. … or perhaps it is more incentive for Ubaldo (which has been widely rumoured) and Santana to re-sign with their “former” teams .. although I don’t quite get that logic as I believe they could be in same position again next year

    who knows .. the price seems right to take a mini gamble on either of these two and to pounce now .. I still don’t see them signing Drew but I sure do hope so!

    • Talk of those teams being just about done spending for the winter — Cleveland, at the very least, I’ve heard, though I’ve also heard the same stuff about Ubaldo being more likely to wind up back there.

    • if the Indians couldn’t re-sign Kazmir for what the A’s paid (and haven’t extended Masterson) it’s pretty clear they don’t have the $. and the Royals gave Jason Vargas what they gave and it shows that they probably don’t have the $ to re-sign to Santana either

      • You aren’t a LITTLE queasy about a guy fresh off of two missed seasons and two terrible seasons before that? I can see some pretty good reasons for the Indians to choose not to double down.

        • you’re talking about Kazmir? double down? i dont really see that term as being apt. $18 million over two years isn’t really doubling down when you have the kind of SP depth that the A’s and Indians have. it’s taking a very reasonable risk on a decent ceiling arm that has just proved he has bounced back.

          i wouldn’t at all be queasy giving Kazmir $9 million AAV over two years. Tanaka at $240 million (incl salary, posting fee, and luxury tax) that would make me queasy.

          • Proved?

            Not really doubling down when you got him for a song and the price just went up by $17-million (or whatever it actually was). I’d be happy to take the value he gave you and let him be someone else’s fairy tale.

            • uh, yeah he proved it… 2.5 fWAR in 160 IP or something. id say that’s proving he’s back from injuries. he’s obviously not the same pitcher but that’s a top 50 pitcher. that’s better performance than Matt Garza in 2013. id take Kazmir on his deal, rather than Garza on his.

    • Don’t see how this in any way increases their chances of going back to their original team.

      Indians get a sandwich pick if Ubaldo goes. Re-signing him essentially means they lose a pick like anyone else.

      Drew especially is screwed by this. The Red Sox love draft picks and have Bogaerts waiting to play SS. All the talk of Cherington “keeping dialogue open” with Drew is a polite way of saying “next question” at his pressers.

  4. So even with the draft pick attached,this means Ubaldo is going to get 5 years .

    • How do you figure?

      • Ubaldo has been healthier and at times better,but mostly healthier.

        Its pretty much everyones conclusion that jimenez gets the most of the 3, so with garza setting the minimum, it makes perfect sense that Ubaldo ends up with a 5 maybe even a 5 with an option

  5. At this point, Id be thrilled with one of Ubaldo and Drew to play 2B. Preferably both.

    Sadly, even this feels like a pipe dream…

    • Why?

      • I know Drew would be a nice upgrade, but I don’t really see the Jays going down that route. He’s a Boras client, and if we buy into their comments about wanting to focus more on health of players, he’s a guy they’d probably be scared off by.

        • If the Fangraphs crowd-sourcing is accurate, Drew, Santana, and Jimenez could be had for less than $100MM in commitments.

          • Here’s a pipe dream that needs to be hit over the head with a pipe.

            Let’s just hope they have the balls to get one.

      • Likely because I have seems to have lost hope. Do you think they will sign both of these guys? Like, really?

        I can want it. I can think it is a great fit. But given AA’s largest FA signing is Melky a 2/16, I doubt he is going to make this big of a splash.

        Just my gut feeling, Stoeten. But I just dont see it.

        I hope they do -fuck I hope they do. But I dont see it.

        Maybe I am just jaded by the Jays…

    • Why believe anything the Jays are saying in the media right now? This is negotiation in public. The Jays may cry poor, which may be to get the best deal, but we will see when players report who much they can really spend.

  6. Hopefully Ubaldo. Santana always seemed to get lit up pitching at the dome. UJ has(had) a better ground ball rate too.

  7. Interesting signing.
    Now let’s see where he fly shits in the buckwheat.

  8. Woulda liked this one.

    I guess it’s Santana or Ubaldo or bust. I’d prefer Ubaldo of those two.

    Hopefully soon good players will help the Jays by signing with us.

    • Why not both? A Dickey/Morrow/Buerhle/Santana/Jimenez rotation would be great. That allows you to move Happ to the pen to be the long man, or trade him. Stroman is the depth arm that comes in for a spot start whenever needed. You’ve also then got Drabek, Hutchison, Nolin, etc as depth.

      Both of them could be had for less than $75MM in commitments, if the fangraphs crowdsourcing project is to be believed.

      • Here’s a pipe dream that needs to be hit in the head with a pipe.

        Did I say that already?

      • Here’s a pipe dream that needs to be hit over the head with a pipe. Uh… did I say that already?

      • That would be freaking awesome, though I doubt being able to get both with 100 million, especially since the diamondbacks need pitching. That’ll drive their prices up.

        • I wouldn’t like that at all… The jays have tons of guys that can fill out / compete for the fifth spot. And why in such a rush to block the development/ opportunity of our soon to be ready pitching prospects? Jiminez and Drew fixes our immediate needs much more effectively and for far less cash (although still unlikely, but that is best case scenario for me barring a trade for kendrick or something).

      • Why jays fan would want to give santana any sort of contract is beyond me.

        his HR rates in the east and in rogers center would explode. I’d rather have hutch, happ or stroman in that spot

  9. Thank god the dominos have started to fall. This offseason has been a big exercise in patients.

  10. I don’t know; I think it was Garza’s medicals that kept the AAV below $15M. Draft pick or not I can’t see Santana or Jiminez signing for less than $14M or $15M. Should be interesting.

    • And you’re basing this on what, exactly?

      Again, all of them have warts. Don’t think I saw a single prediction suggesting Garza wouldn’t get more than the other two, and it’s not like those were done without knowledge of the injury troubles.

      • The comment was based on durability, which for SP is pretty key. Garza wasn’t great with the Rangers this year either. I just suspect teams will simply value Erv/Ubal more. We’ll soon see.

  11. It’s not that I am trying to say I do not expect the jays to sign anyone, but the fact that there is talks that 2014 will not be as kind to the Canadian dollar is one factor that I have yet to see discussed hear or with the Jays payroll. Although I really hope they signed Tanaka it’s part of what makes me wonder if the soft cap is a real possibility. However if they are unable sign Ubaldo, I would rather they go for a 2 year for Arroyo keeping with the fact that they have a lot of free agents in 2014 and 2015. I am not so high on Santana. Although Drew would be nice, and agree that Goins is very terrible I am not sure I think Drew at 10 mill for 3 years is a good deal either.

    • 3 year $30 million is a good decent deal for drew. The problem is it seems Boras wants nothing of it. But it defeinly seems he and Cruz are turning into the Lohse’s of last year.

      • I think Drew would take that deal at this point, but I don’t think anyone’s offered. The Red Sox only want him back on a 1 year deal and the Mets don’t want him long term either.

    • The Canadian dollar is a very good point.

      • It’s an OK point. I’m sure they’re hedged plenty.

        • Rogers probably wouldn’t hedge as much as you’d think against currency fluctuations because they don’t have international business activities. I worked at one of the big six banks for a time and really only financial services clients would hedge against currency fluctuations.

          Canada’s financial markets are robust enough that even a company as large as Rogers is capable of borrowing from local banks & more importantly of borrowing in local currency.

          It is possible that the baseball operations hedged their long run USD commitments to reduce currency exposure, but that requires a tremendous sum of money that cannot be used to maximal utility.

          Not familiar with the inner workings of Rogers, just saying that it’s not 100% they’re insulated. Even if they were, it would be the result of smart thinking from the Jays side of the operation, nothing to do with corporate HQ.

          • There was a huge discussion about this in the comment section a couple of years ago.
            Fascinating stuff.Seriously.Some incredibly knowledgable people read DJF.Some dumb ones too.LOL

            • The Canadian dollar only buys you .90 cents US at the moment and some forecasts predict parity by years end. The Canadian dollar is now at a 4 year low. It will rebound but, the dollar dropping would effect the jays buying power.

              • I was at a conference today and saw a presentation by a BMO economist who said we should expect the CAD to stabilize at around $0.87 USD.

            • Be interested to find out the ratio.
              On 2nd thought, nevermind.

              Because all their contracts require payment in USD, havent
              the Jays always had a USD account? I’m just assuming there
              would be a healthy amount in there to protect against currency
              fluctuations.

  12. Son, a starting pitcher is a lot like… a refrigerator. They’re about six feet tall, three-hundred pounds… they make ice and… No, actually a starting pitcher is a more like a beer. They smell good, they look good, you’d step over your own mother just to get one. But you can’t stop at one… you want to drink another starting pitcher.

  13. So the latest on Santana is that he was looking for 4Y / $60M as of a week ago. Jimenez we last heard was seeking something similar, 4Y and $14M+.

    How much cheaper do the Jays expect these guys to get?

    • They’re not waiting for the latest Canadian Tire flyer to come in the mail. Can’t for the life of me understand these kinds of questions.

      • Not sure I 100% follow you, Stoeten. I’m kind of echoing what you’ve said a few times. I’m just saying if they can get Jimenez for 4Y / $56M today – Alex has said there’s guys he could call up today, agree to their prices, and make them Blue Jays – isn’t that a better strategy for a team with a big need then hoping the league passes at these prices and they can get a shot when he’s looking for 4Y / $48M?

  14. Tanaka gets 22mil
    Garza gets 13mil

    I dont know what the deals for Uba and Santana are going to be, but just plain weird this year.

    Do we see someone go into Feb without signing, or does this all wrap up by end of next week?

  15. while this isn’t a bad contract, this is really a bad use of money by the Brewers. they’re still a horrible team that is firmly 4th place behind the Cards, Pirates, and Reds and now a little further ahead of the Cubs.

    they have four really good position players (CarGo, Lucroy, Segura and Braun), three slightly above average starters (Lohse, Gallardo and now Garza) and pretty much just crap everywhere else. the two extra wins Garza at about free agent cost brings doesn’t make alot of sense for a team projected to win 74 games or something, especially when you consider they’re a small market club.

    • Aramis Ramirez is a really good bat too if he can stay healthy. That arm they got from KC could be pretty promising too. They’ve got a decent 2B situation as well, and maybe a breakout candidate in the outfield. Can’t really blame them for trying, if it doesn’t work out, Gallardo’s off the books next year anyway.

      • they’re still way way behind the Cards, Pirates, and Reds and I’d put there chances of making the playoffs at about 1%. given that i just think it’s just a strategic mistake to guarantee Garza this contract now. the Twins moves i understand – Nolasco has way less health risk than Garza and Hughes and Pelfrey are cheap. the Brewers just need innings in 2014 and there are much, much better and financially sound ways for a bottom-10 team to fill them then giving deals like this one.

    • They’re a sleeper, and these guys are tradable down the line. So it’s not horrific.

      • hahah the Brewers a sleeper? that’s funny!

      • In another division maybe, but the Reds as currently constructed are projected for 77 wins because of the fact that STL and PIT are expected to be just that good.

        Do you really, reeally, think that even if everything breaks right, that the Brewers are better than the Reds?

  16. Do it, AA. Ubaldo, now! Drew, now!

    • What if he doesn’t?

      • Get ready for a whole lot of bitching and whining.

        And then AA slaps us by not believing in him and fleeces away Samadirzja and Franklin away from their respective teams.

        Now THAT’s a probable pipe dream lol

    • Drew is shit

      • Nobody is shit compared to Goins and Izturis.

      • Drew isn’t shit compared to Goins in particular. There’s always room for a second baseman who goes .253/.333/.443 with 13 HR last year while helping a team get to the post season for a World Series championship. Sure, he didn’t have a great playoff, but pretty much the entire Red Fux lineup sucked in the Series other than David Ortiz. He’s been above replacement level on defense at SS every year except one.

        No, he’s not a great player, but we don’t need a great 2Bman, we need a guy who won’t give off a massive stench — and if (knocking on wood) Reyes should get hurt or need some time off, there’s a legit SS to back him up.

  17. I would have rather he “helped” the Jays by fucking signing with them.

    I know ERA is an antiquated stat, but fuck. Sub 4 for seven years. Three of them in the AL East.

    Uggh. This seems like a low price. Let’s go get fucking BOTH Ubaldo and Santana.

    • With Garza’s HR rates he would have been spanked around pitching at Rogers Center. It was smart to pass on him.

    • The Jays have had such great luck with oft-injured pitchers, haven’t they?

      • All the more reason to get both Ubaldo and Santana.

        I know the Jays have depth, but we’re not super strong at the top end of the rotation. So I’d love to add even more depth and hope that the really young guys dont need to contribute much until 2015.

  18. I don’t see there being much of a problem with the Jays signing Jimenez to a 4-year contract now with Garza signed. It sets a bar in terms of term, and with the draft pick tied to Jimenez, the Jays (and other teams) should have most of the leverage, if not all.

    I’m just praying that a team doesn’t come out of nowhere and sign him.

  19. Morrow isnt made of glass hes made of flesh and bone and hes always fucking hurt

  20. Ubaldo or Santana, plus Drew. And because i’m greedy I’ll throw in a ‘Jason Hammel on a minor league deal after spring training starts’ to boot. (just to see if he can find his form from 2 yrs ago)

    • Ew hammel, but minor league deal yay.

      • Oh heck yeah. I wouldn’t touch him with a major league deal (and let’s face it, someone probably will), but if he fails to land one I’d offer him a minor league deal with an invite and see if he can figure some shit out (there’s at least a chance he can repeat his past performance from his first year in Bal). If not he’s AAA depth or he’s cut.

        • We actually have a crap load of AAA depth, especially once we sign a free agent pitcher. Which is probably why AA hasnt gone crazy with the minor league deals this winter.

          But yeah I would give Hammel a minor league deal if I could. seems to be very similar to Happ in terms of results.

          • All this is of course, after he fucking signs an honest to god GOOD SP and a second baseman…. and maybe after spring training starts and we start to see how the kids are looking.

  21. I’m starting to wonder if this is going to be a dud of an offseason based on contract commitments already on the books and the terrible results from last year. It’s a pessimistic strategy, but you also want to be careful about throwing good money after bad. Obviously I have hope that 2014 will see a major rebound, but it’s also possible that all of our major assets are on the wrong side of their primes and the Marlins & Mets deals are going to go down as whiffs.

    Remember the 2006-07 offseason? After the previous winter’s spending spree (and second-place finish), it was just Frank Thomas and the Ohka/Williams/Zambrano shitfecta.

  22. 4 years 60 mil for Santana? In this market that is totally reasonable. And totally movable too.
    Fuck – just sign the fucking guy.

  23. Actually, you know… I’m sure this won’t happen but..

    The Jays could try to sign Santana AND Ubaldo. Say, 4/60 and I dunno.. 4/48?

    Would add 27 mil to payroll. But they could deal Happ (5.2mil) and Jannsen (4 mil).

    That would get it down to around an 18 mil increase (which I believe would put them just over 150.

    Obviously this is predicated on both those guys wanting to come here and nobody else outbidding but… I think it would make a fair bit of sense.

    • Here’s a pipe dream that needs to…

      • What? Do you think that’s dumb?

        • Yes.

          • Haha. Why?

            • It’s so absurdly unlikely that it’s kind of a waste of time to think about it.
              Also because Stoeten is a party pooper ;)

              • Yeah, I totally get that it’s hugely unlikely. Just shooting the shit. But I do feel the team should be attempting to acquire two starters. I’d rather see them spend on a discounted free agent than deal prospects for the shark – or whoever. At least in theory.

            • Why would you sign Santana for $12M a year when Happ will likely give you the same value for less than half that?

              • Huh? Santana has a far better track record than Happ. 3 of his last 4 seasons have been pretty excellent. Happ’s pitched more than 160 innings once.

                • Santana pitched one spectacular year in a hitter’s ballpark, then was putting up roughly the same kind of value that Happ does. Naturally he puts up a decent year last year pitching in KC, with a pitcher’s ballpark. Happ still managed a 1.2 fWAR last year without even pitching in 100 innings (not his vault that he got smoked in the head by a line drive).

                  His innings were limited by being put in the bullpen, not by an inability to produce more than 160 innings.

                  • He had a hot start, but he was starting to slow down before his concussion.

                    I really don’t think Happ can be any better then a 5th starter. Santana definitely has higher upside even if he is home run prone, I still don’t want him though lol

                    • This doesn’t sound dumb or extremely unlikely to me at all. Why cant the Jays sign both at a 4yr term? Surely they could trade Happ and Jansen for somebody come spring training when pitchers get hurt. Maybe not trade Jansen but Happ has value and could be traded for something and leave the Jays near the projected payroll. Sounds smart to me.

    • Why can’t they sign both and then try to trade Buerhle for a 2b?

  24. I have given up and am a brand new Yankees fan.

    Psych!

  25. Does anyone know projected War for Jays starters and where Santana and Jiminez fit in?

    • Santana and Jimenez fit in in that they’re not JA Happ for “TBA 5th starter”.

      • Pretty funny that people were saying Ryan Goins is a projected 2 WAR yesterday. He makes a note of apologizing for it today saying Izturis/Goins combined are a .5 WAR in over 900 plates appearences. LOL.

      • Looking at that closer ZIPS really does not like our team. Goins btw is laughably bad and they sure aren’t expecting much out of our rotation.. even from the “big 3″

        • Yeah, our rotation isnt exactly bad, but it isnt projected to be good either. Signing Jiminez would really help..

    • ZiPS projections on fangraphs puts our rotation at 9.5ish.

      Adding Santana would give us an upgrade of little less then one WAR (went with the average of the 2 projections on fangraphs)

      Jiminez would give us an upgrade of more then one WAR, but definitely a higher ceiling then Santana.

      • so all this hand wringing over about signing a 1 War FA?

        • An Upgrade of one WAR, didny say the would only produce one WAR.

          Jiminez is prjected to produce at least 2+ WAR

          Santana a little less then 2 WAR. It’ll be worse if he pitches in a hitters park.

    • Projections by Steamer

      Name ERA WAR
      R.A. Dickey 4.19 2.7
      Ervin Santana 3.95 2.6
      Ubaldo Jimenez 4.02 2.5
      Mark Buehrle 4.56 2.2
      Brandon Morrow 4.21 1.8
      Esmil Rogers 4.59 1
      J.A. Happ 4.56 1
      Sergio Santos 3.11 0.8
      Casey Janssen 3.36 0.6
      Todd Redmond 4.26 0.6
      Brett Cecil 3.36 0.4
      Steve Delabar 3.41 0.4
      Sean Nolin 4.47 0.4
      Aaron Loup 3.56 0.3
      Neil Wagner 3.54 0.3
      Dustin McGowan 3.68 0.2

  26. So, can we grab Jimenez, Santana and Drew for $35 million/year? DO IT! Payroll would be around $160 million… that’s not bad. You can then deal Happ for minor-leaguers and save a little more cash. Melky comes off the books next season and boom, back under $150 million.

    • as of right now, projected payroll for 2015 is just under 100mil – and that counts the 7.5 mil for RR

  27. Alright I’ve calmed down and talked myself into Ubaldo, perhaps even in favour of Garza (assuming he comes cheaper). Please God let them be preparing an offer to Ubaldo. 4 years and $40 million seems reasonable at this point.

  28. Drew wants a 6 year deal so the jays are out haha jk

    • are you joking that the Jays won’t sign him because he wants six years? Or are you joking about the 6 years and that drew is kinda deparate for a decent deal?

    • And I want a gorgeous model to fuck too but it ain’t happening.

  29. Maybe because I follow the Angels by proxy that I remember how streaky Santana was. When he was on he was damn good but man when he was off he was just atrocious. They traded him for what I recall was not much. I know guys can turn it around but Ubaldo seems to have a better track record that Santana and I would rather have him personally.

  30. I think “the policy” is driving everyone crazy…

  31. Once again I’m sure Alex and the boys in the Front Office have to be left aghast at these dollar figures… Just nonsense.

    I would have had Garza on a base salary of no more than 3M with performance bonuses for 100, 150 and 180IP. Multiple team-friendly option years after a first guaranteed year… Key to get an agreement in place to visit Ipperwash, North Battleford and Flin Flon following the regular season and crucially. a moratorium on tweets that do not feature Marketing Dept. approved catchphrases and hashtags. I’d also have him spend an afternoon with Muni before the season begins, to see if there is any potential for a wacky friendship (LoLz!)

    If Ubaldo agrees to these conditions ,i can see him as a 2014 Blue Jay. If not, maybe it’s Ervin time. If not, I’ll be in my black McGowan #29 jersey T drunk on the couch, dreaming of what could have been.

  32. I’m almost to the point of being fine if the Jays didn’t sign either of these guys.
    If they could get a more consistent Dickey, and Buerhle like we saw in the 2nd half, and healthy Morrow they could be competitive……ish.
    Then the following season AA can blow his blue and white load all over the FA talent the team requires.

  33. I think signing Drew to play second is more important than getting Ubaldo or Santana.

    I’d much rather Drew and then Paul Malholm.

    But if we’re going to dream lets do both.

    • Jiminez should be a good sign. He’s got the upside of a solid Number 2 pitcher, but is projected to be a #3-4 pitcher. And now since Garza signed for only 4 years 52 million, Jiminez should be similar if not cheaper. Plus his HR/fb rate is pretty good.

  34. Happy belated Ubaldo! (turned 30 yesterday)

  35. It has become apparent that everything the Jays management does is great. Keep AA but the beast should shove his cigar up his ass.

  36. How about one or both at one year, $14.2 mil.

  37. If the jays seriously wan’t to compete in their division, they have to use their advantage two protected first round picks and sign Drew for second base and Santana or Jimenez and give up a second round pick and third…. it’s worth it for an established major league pitcher….I mean the Jays can’t develop starting pitchers anyway…….Zing

  38. Screw all this hope.

    Let’s get back to bitching that the Jays didn’t commit over $100 million to Tanaka over only four years….

    With the potential of a $175 million commitment if he sucks or is hurt…..

    Complete with a no trade clause that takes away your option of moving the contract.

    Wouldn’t we all much rather have Tanaka for 4 years with all the long term risk instead of Santana, Jiminez AND Drew for the same price and a few draft picks.

  39. I’ve been out in the fields, fighting for some meals, just hoping for some positive news, uhh..but it is a little barren
    Looking back on a couple of comments I have made, I must admit I have been wrong on most, at least so far, and I am getting a trite concerned. Not sure if we are heading to the right port, right now, and do not want to get off the boat.
    I said the Jays had to do something big in order to keep the MOMO going. Attendance was up, sales of everything flying off the shelves, better demographics at the games ( lots of young skirts etc), rating sky high on TV/Radio, talkshows. I couldn’t see them risking putting a dent in that by coming back to the fans with basically the same fuckin team that ended the year, but yet, here we are in late Jan with only cosmetic changes.
    Sure Navarro is better than JPA ( I figure we gain about 2.5 war here), and the injuries played a part of our demise for sure, however, when we had the whole team play except for Reyes, early in the year, they still played poorly. They got a week to DO SOMETHING positive.
    From a personal and selfish standpoint, on this meme, some of you know I have a 45-1 shot ticket on the Jays for the WS ( for 45$) and 5$ at 20-1 for the pennant, so I have a vested interest here and the reason I picked them up at those outlier odds was because I felt AA would add some significant pitching and maybe another bat , which would make the odds go down, make me look smart, and give me hope fo cashing a winner. Hvaen’t looked, but after the Yankee adds and all we may be worse than 45-1 now. Christ.
    “our biggest need is One and perhaps 2 starting pitchers. We must address this issue”-so says AA shortly after the endof season.
    I believed him, but must admit, starting to lose faith. Not so much because of Tanaka, because I felt as Stoten said in his rant yesterday, that they knew they weren’t going to sign him early on, so it was easy to play the PR game of saying “we are in on Tanaka” because the 20m was only payable upon signing which wasn’t going to happen and then they vote themselves out because of this bogus policy they bring up from time to time, but now because they seem to think they can have a different idea of “value” than others using whatever metrics they can to justify doing just enough to lose out, and may not get either UJ, or ES because of it.
    The prices, apparently , are currently around 4/55m or so. Well, if the Jays decide, in their little world that the “value” is 3/30m or 4/34m they can talk themselves out of this too and tell everyone they didn’t see “value” there as these guys fuck off to LAD or Az or some such place. AA cannot dictate the market-it’s the other way around. While a house I want may list for 400k, I may think it is only a “value” at 250k. I can offer the 250k and be turned down while some guy offers the 400 or close to it and walks off with the hosue. Doing this time after time will never get me a house but i can say I tried. Sometimes you gotta pay market . I know they don’t want to waste money but there is a business risk to this and i think they have to act or they will ruin a lot of built up goodwill IMO.
    Single game tix go onsale 1/31 and this year I don’t care as I am in a bit of a “show me mode” and I’ll get some later. Ditto for the 10 game flexpack. At the beginning, without some apparent improvement, I’ll just watch on TV and see how it goes.
    Finally, a couple of people mentioned the state of the CDN dollar. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times-it is a concern, for sure and at now .89 you can bet it has the attention of some significant bean counters in the empire. Yes they hedge but that only works for awhile and as Ray said, they may have only done a marginal bit. If they think this a longer term trend ( i’ll leave my personal thought on this out as it seems to irritate some folks) then yeah, there could be some pushback and may explain some reticence in iniatiating action. For years, I worked in corporate accounting for a big movie making outfit and had to report to HO in NY. Our Budget was in US$. When the CDN $ fell they didn’t give a shit you still had to make your numbers. Firings ensued eventually.including me. I hope the Jays don’t have to there again if our dollar tanks.
    \Ok, enud musings for now, i am going back to my bottle of Merlot and praying for a significant move. Navarro alone, and the thought of a GOINS?Izzy combo are giving me the shitz

  40. Garza should have been the guy the jays signed based on track record and not having to surrender a draft pick. Now, they will have to cover their nose and go for the wildly inconsistent jimenez or santana.

  41. No deal for garza yet. just announced.

  42. This was the pitcher to get and the Jays dropped the ball in my mind. Now maybe they have Santana targeted but if they come out of the winter without one of these top FA pitchers AA has failed and we will watch a repeat of last season.

  43. There are obvious behind the scenes info that the public aren’t privy to about Santana, Jimenez and Garza. I like that AA won’t over pay for any half assed pitcher anymore. Next year Price Lester and other good free agent pitchers are up for contract. I would rather pay 25m r price than 20+ for tanaka for 15 m for a 2nd or 3rd starter like Santana or
    Jimenez.

  44. Fuck this offseason to hell

  45. [...] given to John Lott and Shi Davidi for the Jays dropping out of the Masahiro Tanaka sweepstakes. Secondly, he says the Milwaukee Brewers recent agreement with Matt Garza may actually help the Blue [...]

    • Is it just me?
      You post stuff like this all the time and it makes no sense in my noggin. Are you trying to be funny, tell stoeten he should write more articles or something?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *