PuppetMaster

Let me guess, Stephen Drew is a Scott Boras client.

Yep. He sure is.

For the uninitiated, I bring up that connection that because Jon Heyman had some relatively player-friendly things to say about the free agent middle infielder in a video posted today at MLB.com, and there’s something of a dubious history with him and items relating to Boras Corp., as outlined by Rich Lederer at The Baseball Analysts in 2008, and by Michael Edder at The Yankee Analysts in 2012.

On the other hand, though, he says the Jays might be in on Stephen Drew!

“Toronto’s a team in the mix here, I think. And they’re in the mix for a lot of players,” he tells us. ”I think they’re a team of definite interest.”

Swoon! Though I don’t know if I take any of this as actually serious. Especially since Heyman claims — as others have — that the Yankees are now more interested than ever, given that they’ve blown past the luxury tax threshold they spent two years fretting over, and that — get this — the Red Sox are “willing to do a multi-year deal, they might even sweeten it with an opt-out clause — so two years with an opt-out clause there in Boston.”

I just… really?? Like, an opt-out after one, I guess? I suppose it’s not typical Boras style to take a one-year pillow offer until he absolutely has to, but if Boston’s willing to go multi-year at this point, doesn’t that kind of seem like the best he’s going to get?

Maybe not. After all, in a lot of ways this really does seem to be November Redux, and the market — read: the rumour mill — is just heating back up again, with way more bodies still in play than we’re used to at this time of year. Thanks, Obama Tanaka!

If there’s any truth to it, though, the Jays recognizing that their second base situation is dogshit is a pretty alright thing.

 

Image via Tauntr.

Comments (291)

  1. I’d rather see them sign drew than Jimenez or santana *if I had to pick one*. Of course, I’d rather have them all.

  2. Jays need to just start the fucking rebuild now.

    • That would be the dumbest possible thing.

    • I think signing another starter could be a way to start the rebuild now. It could be another asset to trade as guys like Stroman and Sanchez arrive.

      • The straight forward plan you would think would be to sign a couple guys like Drew, Santana, Jiminez and then wait to see how the team does before deciding on rebuild. If they are winning then do nothing, if losing then rebuild by trading all the veterans before they lost value whether at deadline or next offseason. Not signing guys and not rebuilding being caught in the middle is what us Toronto sports fans have been subjected to for far too long – although the leafs did go for it about 10 years ago or so getting Francis, Leach etc which is maybe what the Jays should be doing now while getting finishing touches via FA rather than trade so if it doesn’t work out there is still a good base of prospects to start rebuild with.

    • Don’t feed the trolls, people. Jesus.

    • Dumbass..

    • Rebilud lol.. Idiots!

    • Are you high?? Start the rebuild… Who even let you on this site?

      Anyways, I’ll explain this simply to you. You’ve got 2 more years of most core players, such as Bautista, EE, Rasmus (Last year), etc. If you let go now, its just so stupid. Why pay for these good players and not fucking try. Reyes has time left in Toronto, Buehre’s got time. Like rebuilding doesn’t help anyone and definitely makes the time for these players much harder.

      People like you disgust me, full of negativity.

  3. Sounds like a whole lotta nothing… or a whole lotta the same old speculating.
    But i still hope it’s true.

  4. Well, given how shitty Keith Law says their farm system is, they had better be in on a lot of players.

    • Look at bp’s rankings

    • It just depends on how you feel about all those low minors lottery tickets. Fair to go either way, I think.

      • I’ll take the midway point between Law and BP (or was it BA?).
        Either way, we havent seen the awesomeness of Sanchez yet who pitched the lowest WHIP of the AFL(.94, pitchers with more than 15 IPs); Or Stroman. And those rankings will all change again (for the better) after the Jays’ 2 first round picks next June.

  5. This is great news. A legit source has claimed the Jays are in on a free agent player!

    Oh wait, isn’t that always the case? The Jays are in on Drew just as much as they were on Tanaka, Cano, Fielder, Garza, and every other free agent that could’ve potentially helped their team over the past four years. Enough to be waiting for the price to drop to their liking. Which seems to never happen.

    But yay anyways, am I right?

    • AA wants Drew at the right amount of years and the right price.

      • You say that like every other team doesn’t operate the same way. Unless you think there’s a team out there who wants Drew at any number of years and any price, which would obviously explain why he’s still unsigned, right?

      • And what’s wrong with that?

      • Sure… but it sure is fustrating that the right price never seems to be the market price and if you’re not willing to pay the market price then you’re not really a buyer. I like getting stuff I want out of the clearance rack as much as the next shopper but if baby needs formula and it’s not on sale I gotta get the formula anyways.

    • Ya, too bad the Jays didn’t land Cano, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols, etc. Not really sure what your point is. Two of your examples look like cases in which fans should be happy that the team didn’t hamstring themselves with those contracts. Trying to get value is an extremely responsible way to go about free agency. We might disagree with AA’s assessments or calculations of value, but I am at least glad he is concerned about it.

      • Do you think other GMs don’t assess the risk/reward of making free agent signings? Its looking more and more like AA was spooked in the Riccardi era and isn’t willing to make a big free agent commitment, even if it is reasonable (keep in mind reasonable is defined what teams are willing to pay players, not what you’d like to pay. Toronto isn’t a small market team that needs to clean up the leftovers like Tampa).

        Either way, this isn’t really newsworthy. Especially if you believe that AA is the calculating frugal dude you make him out to be.

        Which two players? I count one?

    • All speculation but the big difference here is the Jays may realistically be players on Drew while they weren’t on any of the top tier long term FA in the past – Tanaka was not going to happen. Drew, Jiminez, Santana at 4 year or less term that is much more realistic for the Jays.

      • No, Drew isn’t a realistic goal either. They don’t have the payroll room for another 12-15m a season. Its time to stop drooling every time the Jays are linked to a player

        • The rumored payroll is 150-155M and the Jays are at 135M. So Drew is a realistic option that they could actually sign at four or less years for term. Santana and Jiminez are too.

        • What IS their payroll, then? What was it last November?

          • Andrew – We want you to have inside information on this so we can make our unrealistic fantasy GM suggestions and arguments without it being entirely speculative.

            Given AA has been saying they are in the market for FA SP you would assume there is some room in there for at least one acquisition

  6. If the Jays sign one of Santana/Jiminez and sign Drew, that would actually end up being a pretty OK offseason. Kind of like taking a second run with last year’s core plus a couple shore ups.

  7. Fuck – got get Jeff Baker if you can’t get Drew. Let him kill some lefties and give Goins some ABs against Righties only.
    It’s hardly ideal, but it would do I guess.

  8. So literally every source who’s written on him in the past 3 months mentions how soft his market is, but now all of a sudden comes Boras’ lapdog talking about how badly the Yankees and Red Sox want him? That seems legit.

    • The market should be soft for Drew…unless you like your injury prone,
      no hit, no field shortstops.
      In the past 4 years he’s played 147, 84, 75 and 124 games.
      So on the durability thing, he’d fit right in.

      Oliver has him projected for1.8 WAR and Steamer for 2.0…and that’s
      if he gets the bump for lining up at shortstop. Less if he’s at 2B.

      I don’t get the love for this guy at anything close to his asking price.
      Watching him play on turf might be almost comical. Like Bono revisited.

  9. Not sure if it’s been used here before, but it’s the first time I’ve seen it, and that picture is amazing.

    • It is. I picture that almost every time I read anything from Heyman regarding a Boras client.

  10. “Swoon! Though I don’t know if I take any of this as actually serious.”

    Ha! Took the words right out of my mouth. Like one or two others here, I’m almost sold on the idea that if the Jays could only get one free agent, then he would be guy, even over the likes of Jimenez and Santana. I think the net WAR from such a move has the potential to equal what a signing of Santana or Jimenez could bring for far less of a commitment in dollars and years. Also, if someone like Stroman or Hutchison were to actually work out better than expected (which I see a higher chance of happening than Goins) then the net effect would likely be even higher.

    You could conceivably field 9 hitters that all would have the chance to be solid at a minimum with some pretty good defense on top of that.

    That said, it’s probably just me setting myself up for more disappointment. I can’t remember the last time the Jays actually had a Boras client but this winter would actually be a good time to start.

    • Scott Schoeneweis and Bill Caudill.

      The only 2 in the past 30 years I believe.

      Until the Jays sign Jeff Baker that is………

  11. Where’s the picture of Parkes being puppeted by Peewee Herman?

  12. Ugh.
    Macier is fine.
    Spend the money elsewhere (if we’re going to be a bunch of frugal cunts)

  13. So to me this is what it sounds like

    Boras: I have a client who needs a push
    Heyman: I think I can do something to help
    Heyman: link to all the teams in one division, scaring the Red Sox to give him a better contract then the arb offer
    Boras: mission accomplished

  14. I’m starting to believe that addressing their 2B situation may be more important than adding another starter. Jeff Sullivan put together a projected a list of teams who would benefit the most from adding Jimenez or Santana, where the Blue Jays ranked directly in the middle at +1.5 WAR, if both pitchers posted 200+ innings and a +3 WAR (they removed 200 innings from what would be their projected 5 and the accompanying WAR). Admittedly, this was a rough projection of these two pitchers and relies on the projection of the Jays other 5 starters, but it really goes to show that if money is truly an issue for Rogers this season maybe the Jays should focus their resources at the position where numerous players provided essentially replacement level value (some below replacement level)

    The piece analyzes a number of the teams interested in these pitchers, but strangely leaves the Jays out. What I was thinking though is that minus Johnson’s horrendous performances and more consistency/health from Dickey, Buerhle and Morrow, starting pitcher can’t possibly be as much of an Achilles heal as it was last year. The depth the Jays have for the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation (and the bullpen) are likely the reasons the projections had Jimenez or Santana providing only a win and a half in value for the team (plus seeing one of Stroman/Sanchez halfway through this year likely rests on the team standing pat).

    Essentially, would the Jays be better off with one of these two FA starters? Yes. However, if resources are limited, maybe Drew is the safer bet to provide overall value for the team.

  15. Jeff Baker is close to signing…so there goes that pipe dream.

  16. But actually… What the fuck does this even mean other than they have inquired about Drew as we know AA to do with just about every player? Sorry for the grumpy attitude but someone call me when someone fucking signs. Fuck.

  17. What’s with all these “opt out” contracts? I hope that’s not a trend that continues because it’s a horrible deal for the club giving the contract. But if Drew gets an opt out, it seems like anyone could get it. Hope that doesn’t happen.

    Anyway, I can’t imagine the Jays being serious candidates to land Drew if both the Yankees and Red Sox are as well.

  18. there seems to be a lot of people now saying it wouldn’t be too bad if we didn’t sign Uba or Santana….the problem with that thinking is, your banking on Morrow pitching 30 games….would be great, but dont bank on it

    then banking on Happ being effective as our # fucking 4…..fuck me.

    Yes Hutch and Stroman might be awesome this year, but people, for pur depth we need another mid rotation guy period, FA or Trade, it has to happen if we want a shot at the playoffs.

    Last 2 years we have had, what 14 starts from different pitchers ave.

    We need someone else. Dont stop beating the we need another pitcher drum, cause we do.

    • Actually, banking on any one starter to pitch 30 games isn’t a great bet. Last year only 68 guys managed to start at least 30 games. That’s only slightly more than 2 pitchers per team.

      • So yeah. Damn right we need someone. Even if you do trust Morrow (and I do).
        But it’s not like us “beating the drum” actually has any effect one way or the other anyway….

    • Last year the Red Sox were banking on Buchholz (4.56 ERA in 2012, 14 starts in 2011), Lester (4.82 ERA in 2012), Lackey (missed year with Tommy John, 6.41 ERA in 2011), and Doubront (4.86 ERA in 2012).

      Doesn’t mean everything will come together as perfectly for the Jays, obviously, but sometimes its smart to believe in more than just the imperfect vision you have of what these guys have been.

      • the more money you have in the bank…the better you can withstand a bank heist.

        the bank heist being pitcher injuries and underperformance.

        when people refer to redmond as some sort of decent fall back…they need to go back and look at his homerun rate…and then wake up

  19. Yeah, agree this “opt out” thing is an odd trend and I hope it doesn’t become a thing.

    There’s zero benefit whatsoever to the club (other then enticing the player to sign in the first place). If they are given, there should be an opt out available for BOTH parties

    • I was thinking the same thing. Either that or some of the years after the opt-out are team options. Say you sign a 6 year deal with opt out after 3. Years 5 and 6 are team options. Gives the player a little more security but doesn’t handcuff the team.

    • The advantage for the teams would be less AAV before the opt out. No opt out and the player would want more AAV. If the team had an opt out you would figure higher AAV than no option before the opt out.

      The jays under AA have historically done all team friendly options. If the opt out becomes more prevalent and the Jays don’t go along then would figure higher AAV needed to sign the guys. Teams have to pay for team friendly options – limits risk but increases guaranteed money given out in most cases.

    • Well, you identified the benefit quite readily.

  20. I’ve started to convince myself that Arroyo might be the best option at this point. Basically a right-handed Buerhle, gives you 200 innings of 4.5 FIP, doesn’t walk anybody, gives up a couple dingers per game. Doesn’t have the potential of Ervin or Ubaldo, but really how much “potential” do either of them still have? With the profound variability in Santana’s and Jimenez’s histories (and even Dickey & Morrow’s) it might be safer and cheaper to go with Bronson. He’ll give you stable (albeit medicore) innings. And he wants to be on the east coast…

    • If they sign Arroyo then my flex pack buying days are over. Fuck that.

      • But with all the mediocre SP the Jays already have is Arroya enough of an upgrade to justify the money? With Santana or Jiminez they have upside to be big upgrades. Failing that might as well spend some money to try to improve 2B where there is so much potential for an upgrade on performance over Gose.

        • sorry Goins

        • Believe me, Arroyo is not my ideal addition. But what’s brought me to Arroyo is all this discussion about what we should expect from Ubaldo & Ervin – which is, we really don’t know. We know we can get 200 IP of Buehrle-esque performance from Bronson, and those innings alone I think make us better than an oscillating feast-or-famine performance from Santana or Jimenez (assuming that cost/term is an issue, which is something I don’t care to wade into right now…). None of these guys are the ace we really need, so why not go with the steady option in Arroyo rather than trying to convince ourselves that Ubaldo or Ervin are what we really need? Bird in the hand, etc etc…

          • Because Jiminez or Santana could provide close to ace performance and Arroyo likely cant.

            The in house options are not that far off from what should be expected from Arroyo and a bigger upgrade at 2B would better serve the team than a marginal upgrade at SP. Upgrade SP I say go for the potential big win instead of more likely marginal improvement

      • That’ll show them.

  21. Say Drew does sign somewhere else, is there a short term solution at second in Michael Young? Sure, he’ll be 38, and his defense is nowhere close to what it was, but he’s another solid righthanded bat! Not saying that it would be my preference over Drew, but it would be better than hoping that Goins and Izturis can at least perform at league average. Setting the bar that low, and chances are, we could still be disappointed.

  22. Yankees and Red Sox shop at Nordstroms and AA and the Jays shop at Dollarama… translation – If the Yankees and Sox are in on him Jays won’t get him . end of story.

    Are people serious about a rebuild? Or just being stupid.

  23. As I hoped and predicted. AJ “sweepstakes”?

    Travis Sawchik ‏@Sawchik_Trib 4m
    A.J. Burnett will return to pitch in ’14, per source. Burnett will be open to pitching for a club other than the Pirates

  24. I’d like to see Drew sign with the Jays, I really would. But there are many factors that are telling me that it won’t happen:

    • Heyman enjoys sucking on Boras’ cock
    • AstroTurf
    • Drew’s history of injury
    • AstroTurf + injury history = bad
    • Anthopoulos has stated he wants players with better health trends
    • I can’t remember the last time the Jays actually had a player represented by Boras

    I hope the Jays do sign him though. His defense has been very good 4 out of the last 5 years, he can take walks, and his bat seems to be at least solid when healthy.

    I guess the question is: Is Drew playing (hopefully) every day more valuable to the Jays than another SP (hopefully) playing once every 5 days? Because as much as it i a pipe-dream, getting both Drew and a SP, at least through free agency, is highly unlikely.

  25. Since we don’t really have any viable caddy for Lind, what do people think about a Cabrera like contract for Nelson Cruz? His market seems to be pretty non-existent so we might be able to grab him cheap (maybe even cheaper than we did Melky?). Cruz could platoon with Lind and backup Melky in LF if the Melkman does not bounce back the way we all hope he does and also could be full time DH if Lind turns back into the pre-July2012 pumpkin he was for so long. I wouldn’t do it if a Cruz contract was going to break the bank, but if you could get him for 6-7 mil…maybe?

    • Waste of a draft pick and dollars for a player with no defensive value and offensive numbers trending in the wrong direction. oh, and then there is the biogenesis baggage.

      • The draft pick is a thing, maybe not so bad if you picked up someone else first. However, his offensive numbers have NOT been declining, actually they have been pretty consistent per fangraphs since 2011, and he actually had his best year last year (better than 2012 when he was supposedly on PEDs) according to WAR (1.5 in 100 games and a wRC of 122). And yes there is the biogenesis thing, that is the whole reason we might be able to pick him up on the cheap. Seems like he might have a small split as well, which would make him more valuable in a platoon role with Lind. I don’t know, not convinced of it myself, just a thought. I think it would improve the team overall, especially since Sierra, our only other real option might just turn out to be Aaron Cibia 2.0…we just don’t know…

      • Not to mention that he strikes out a quarter of the time, can’t draw walks and is slow. Oh, and we are already looking at the possibility of having five outfielders on the opening day roster.

        • Five outfielders??? Sierra maybe, although again he might be crap. Gose and Pillar are both slated to start in AAA and both still have major performance question marks at the mlb level… Ask yourself this, do you really want to see Sierra playing everyday if Melky or JB or Lind or EE goes down? We really do not have a viable RH bat off the bench. I do think we need someone (in the mold of a Rajai Davis) who wouldn;t be slated in to start but also wouldn’t kill you to watch 4-5 times a week in a DH/backup corner outfield role when he inevitably gets pressed into play by injuries or ineffectiveness! I just don’t think Sierra is that guy, and I do not think Gose or Pillar are ready yet either (and especially not as a right side platoon with Lind)

          • If guys go on the DL you can bring up other guys, you know. Though I agree in general about none of the in-house options being ideal.

            • Yes I know we can bring up guys to replace those on the DL. My main point is simply the second part of your comment there, even considering the guys at AAA on the 40man, there is no one that inspires a huge amount of confidence as either a 4th outfielder or RH-DH.

          • Hey dimes, as long as Cruz isn’t waddleing his slow ass on long routes to flyballs, then I’m all good. Gose has defence, Sierra has shown a decent bat it the past. They both have dynamite arms, thou Gose was wild towards the end of the year. I would have rather them sign Jeff Baker, who can play in or out. Cruz isn’t the anwser, unless your looking for a DH, who is Lind, but would rather sign Young to DH than Cruz. Would perfer to see Gose start year in AAA, but he may never be anything more than a fourth outfielder/PR, ever. Mightt as well get him use to the role.

    • What about Sierra who is out of options. He plays vs LHP and Cabrera or Bautista is DH. Sierra seems to have some potential to be a regular.

      • I don’t know, both of Sierra’s defence and base running needs major work. Really his only calling card is his bat, and if he gets found out my MLB pitching on his second trip around the league we might not want him anywhere near this team if we are trying to actually compete this year.

        • Seems like if something can be improved or taught, then base running and defense are probably the most likely candidates.

        • Agree with JL and think he has a chance to be a regular because his deficiencies are with things that should improve with experience. He has good raw tools hitting the ball, foot speed and arm strength which are usually the limiting factors and cant be taught or learned as easily with experience.

    • Why would Cruz sign anywhere to be a platoon guy? If he signs short-term he wants to rebuild value, and that ain’t the way to do it.

      • Didn’t AA say something about talking to an aging player who may consider a part time role because the market for him just isn’t there? I’m wondering if cruz might have been the player he was talking about.

  26. Olney made his preseason predictions. Jays are nowhere to be found and actually thinks we’ll be dumping players midseason depending on how we are “faring”.

    • Mark Buehrle — He had a 4.15 ERA last season in his 13th consecutive season of more than 200 innings, so he is a plow horse — and being paid like a racehorse. Buerhle will make $37 million for 2014 and 2015, and rival executives say the Blue Jays made him available in the past year. If he’s throwing effectively, this is the perfect salary-dump candidate for a prospect-starved organization as Toronto looks to save as much money as possible.

    • Jose Reyes — Owed $86 million for the next four seasons including a buyout of his 2018 option. He is 30 years old, and if the Blue Jays were willing to eat some of his contract, he could be interesting for a team that may soon need a shortstop — such as the Yankees.

    I Don’t like Olney.

    • I have always felt Olney was/is anti-jay.

      As for Buehrle, I’ve hoped the Jays would have moved him by now simply as a way to maximize payroll flexibility.

      • Everybody thinks that about every national guy and their team. It’s not true.

        • I am sure anti-jay is a bit strong but I’ve read him for a few years now and there’s certainly a bias with certain teams imo, again that’s just me. He did end up being correct when he poo pooed all over the Jays last winter, even if that was more of a coincidence than any great insight on his part. I don’t even blame him for not picking the Jays this year to do well, because on the surface most pundits just take what happened last year at face value without asking why.

          I don’t get the same with guys like Morosi or Kenny Ken Ken at all when it comes to other teams.

          • It was a complete coinsidence… he was poo-poo’ing the Jays last year because of, get this, concerns about the bullpen. At the same time he was pumping the tires on the Orioles because they had an “air of defiance” around camp.

            Olney is the opposite of a credible analyst. Whenever I happen to hear him blather I always feel dumber for having listened to it.

    • Prospect starved???? Really, didn’t realize we were on the same level for prospects as we were when Riccardi was shown the door. I generally take anything an american sports reporter has to say about any Canadian team with a grain of salt, Seems when they report about something over the border, their forcast becomes cloudy with a chance of bullshit later this evening. I’ve read pieces like this one, and they all fail to mention anything about health, just plainly blurting 2013 was a disaster. If we stay healthy, anything can happen. Remember how everyone was shitting on Boston last year. Let’s just wait and see what happens before we start talking about a rebuild.

      • Law just ranked the system 24th, and if you don’t really rate low minors guys, there aren’t a whole lot. It’s not nuts.

        • I saw that. I think Olney is basing that “prospect starved” line on Klaw’s ranking because Olney traditionally covers MLB stories and players. I don’t know how much research he, himself does on minor league systems.

          Law is the outlier from what I’ve read about the Jays system on Prospectus, Baseball America and MLB.com. All of those sites seem to think the Jays are very deep.

          • Did I miss the system rankings at MLB.com? Because I thought they just ranked just prospects, and they weren’t far off what Law is saying.

            He’s not an outlier, pretty sure the issue is one of focus. Not unreasonable to not bank on the lottery tickets in the low minors so much. Jays will be back up his rankings next year when some of those guys take step forwards, and when they add high end talent through those two draft picks — assuming they sign. Also not helped by the fact that he wasn’t as high on Brentz and Tellez, I think. Regardless, not seeing having an issue with either way to look at it, though it’s obviously easier to get excited along with the guys who really look highly on the far-away arms.

      • Name me a position player prospect above low A ball in this organization that projects as an above average major leaguer? Jiminez might be the only one projecting near average.

    • Eat money AND trade Reyes to a divisional rival that has arguably an awful farm? I laughed.

      • Lol what are the Yankee’s gonna give us? Why would they want to trade with us. Their propects also really suck.

        • What did they give us when we gave them the rocket ?
          what did they give us when we gave them cone?

          i recall people like homer bush and marty janzen coming our way

          • Man, that Clemens trade sure looks bad when you leave out the best player involved.

            David Wells played two years with the Jays after the trade and had 10.8 fWAR.
            In those two years, Clemens had 6.6 fWAR.

  27. Fuckit, lets sign Kendrys Morales and Drew and just try to outscore everyone like the 93 Jays.

    You can probably get the 2 of them for less then one of the suspect pitchers.

    • Kendrys will play which position, exactly?

      • DH.

        EE first.

        Lind can be the good bench bat that we never seem to have.

        Cycle them around a bit, you can probably still get Linda 350-400 at bats.-All against righty’s

        • Smashtown, these boys can rake.

          Reyes
          Bautista
          Encarnacion
          Morales
          Lawrie
          Rasmus
          Melky
          Drew
          Navarro

          Need a run late, ph Linda for one of the guys at the bottom.

          Fuckin fireworks.

          • +2, the extra + for alliterative profanity

          • I’ve always loved Morales. This guy fucked himself on a schoolyard leap.

            But I think he can come around and almost hit like Cano again. . Minus the average. He’s a killer sleeper….. A little bit forgot about.

            • I know Lind isn’t likely to repeat 2013, but his 132 wRC+ was higher than any season Morales has had since 2009. Would you really support spending a bunch of money and giving up a draft pick to avoid having to platoon Lind? That would be a horrible waste of resources.

              • Yes, Lind did have a fine year. And now he’ll poke his head out of Cito’s ass, see his shadow and then we get 2 more years of pre’13 Lind.

                Lind is about as dependable as a condom made by Edward Scissorhands.

                I’ll take the switch-hitting Morales.

                • I would “take” Morales too. Unfortunately it’s not that simple. The Jays would have to surrender a second round pick (or lower, if they sign a pitcher or Drew, which would make it more palatable) for the right to pay him somewhere around $3-4 million more per year than they’re paying Lind. The return on a Lind trade would have to be pretty substantial to make that minor upgrade worthwhile.

                  • I’d keep Lind as I outlined above.
                    I think Morales would be more then marginally better as well.
                    He’s odd as a 29 year old because I think he still has upside.
                    Missed quite a bit of time with the leg.

                    Lind is going to regress.

                    • I think Lind will regress too. I think he’ll regress to somewhere around Morales’s level.

    • Morales is not better than a platoon with Lind and someone who hits lefties reasonably well.

      • I dont know about that.

        not when you factor in what value lind can bring you back in a trade if you get morales.

        • Well… since Morales is a lateral move from Lind in pretty much every way (except that he’ll cost more), the return for Lind will have to be better than that of a 40ish overall draft pick. I’m not sure that would be the case.

  28. Assets A natural with an uncanny baseball IQ, he has an ideal mix of patience, power, speed and skill at the plate. Can also be very good with the glove. Makes the game look effortless.

    Flaws Is injury-prone, which contributes to streakiness. Despite his elite tools, he hasn’t shown enough progression at the major-league level. Sometimes appears to lack intensity.

    Career potential Talented shortstop with consistency issues.

  29. S. DREW. A.J. BURNETT AND UBALDOOOOOO GOOO JAYS GOOOO

  30. Burnett’s on the, now that is interesting, though I doubt the Jays would sign him or that he would come here again.

  31. Sign Burnett, Jiminez, trade some pitching depth for franklin.

    DO IT AA lol

  32. I’m sure Andrew will mention it in a link dump one day, but MLB approved new caps to better protect pitchers. Have to see how many of these guys will actually wear them.

    Clayton Kershaw: “I think it’d take a lot of getting used to [...] You don’t look very cool, I’ll be honest.”

    Terrible response.

    • I couldn’t figure out why the ball kept getting bigger …….and then it hit me.

      • Haha awesome.

      • Monty Python:

        “…last ball of the over I gave him a slower one, threw it right up in the air he came all the way down, he took the ball on the full toss, hit the ball back at me like a bullet didn’t have chance to move, couldn’t protect myself, ball hit me straight, smack, plumb between the eyes,

        course I was getting used to it by then.”

  33. “If there’s any truth to it, though, the Jays recognizing that their second base situation is dogshit is a pretty alright thing.”

    Jesus Christ – they had better fucking recognize.

  34. …yes, because Obama and Tanaka bear any similarity other than not being common North American names.

  35. Lets pick up latos and philips for morrow and rasmus and im happy

  36. If we sign Ubaldo…we could very well end up with the majors first jiminez, jiminez battery

  37. The writer of the article wrote “loathe” instead of “loath,” to express the idea that players are unwilling to come to Toronto. Someone else, evidently unfamiliar with the meaning or spelling of those words, turned it into a preposterous headline about how the city of Toronto is disliked.

    • Yeah…I was wondering about that.
      Being loath to come to Toronto is one thing….but the city being loathed is quite another.

  38. Bingo!

  39. What’s the over/under on how many times we hear the word “value” in tonights address?

    • It’s something that’s starting to piss me off to no end. Value is grand until you face the harsh reality of competing in a league with no salary cap. Value means very little in winning anything.

      • It’s something that small market teams on low budgets have to deal with.. Why do the Jays have to act like a small market team???

        • It’s something literally every team has to deal with. Teams just have to deal with it on a different scale. If they Yankees didn’t care about value, Robinson Cano would still be a Yankee. I have a hard time seeing the Jays as acting like a small market team when they’re coming off a season with a top 10 payroll and their primary offseason targets are still unsigned.

          • Thank you Philbert. I am with you on this one. Every team makes a value judgment when deciding to sign or not sign a player.

          • The Yankees have the luxury tax to worry about, if that wasn’t an issue Cano would still be a Yankee.

            A team with deep pockets that hasn’t made the post season in the lifetime of many of its fans should not be blabbering on about value contracts… Bad optics.

            • They let Cano go and then blew right by the luxury tax threshold by signing Tanaka. A team with by far the deepest pockets in baseball shouldn’t allow the best second baseman in the league to slip away because they may have to spend a few extra dollars on the luxury tax.

              • The yankees likely let Cano go because they didn’t think the value he added was going to be worth the commitment they would have to make (in years, dollars, luxury tax space, future DH spot, etc.).

            • I think a team that hasn’t made the playoffs definitely should be talking about value. They clearly have done a poor job of managing their available resources over that period. A contending team is part of the value calculus. Maybe we are working with different notions of “value.”

              • I think you’re working with the same definition of value here. You just seem to be siding with every team and analyst in baseball in thinking that the money allocated to any given player has to reflect what that player provides on the field, while others are happy to whine and complain that their team should just sign the best players available regardless of cost.

    • You’ll only hear it as many times as Alex finds value in the term. As soon as he’s not seeing the value anymore, he’ll move on to other,hopefully better, options.

      Reminds me of J.P. referring to “the player” in interviews. We’ve had conversations with the player.. We really like the player.. etc

      Grating. I’m hoping Alex’s meltdown Adam Dunn moment is equally funny…

  40. Is tonight the address? What time is it? I am going to watch the stream and I better hear some people ask hard hitting questions!

  41. I was kind of hoping I would turn the computer on this morning with some breaking news of Jays signings right before the address tonight. I feel like a douche sometimes playing such close attention to and having such loyalty to something that I cannot control in any way.

    I hooked what can I say.

    • Me too.
      I’m at the point where if I don’t see “Jays sign…” on a headline at some point in the day – it’s just a shitty day.

  42. I’m liking all the rumors involving the jays right now! Hopefully a couple actually materialize haha. But I was just spitballing with a bud and thought that it makes way too much sense to try to get these guys. Sign Ubaldo to a 3/39 deal (I saw that somewhere but i’d be comfortable with 3/50 or something. He helps shores up the starters. Then sign drew to a 2 year deal to play second. Pay him a bit more then needed to keep him off the sox/yanks and fill a huge hole until we get a successor. Then trade lind to the Pirates for Jose Tabata. Tabata becomes our ’4th’ OF but will get routine AB’s playing left for melky as he is worked back in and he will fill in routinely for both colby/bautista. With the injuries our OF had last year, having a guy like Tabata could be huge. Then sign Kendrys to fill the hole left by linds departure and you have a revamped/improved team. All without throwing around too much money and term. Ya we would lose a couple picks but both our first rounders are protected so that’s all that matters.

  43. Jeff Baker, signed with the mariners, minor league deal, 1 million + incentives if he makes the team.

  44. I can’t believe how much I’m hitting my refresh button.

  45. Ubaldo or Santana (or someone via trade who is at least their equivalent) + Drew (or someone via trade who’s at least a league average 2B) and I’m OK with this offseason.

  46. Stoeten, we want an AJ Burnett post. Thank you.

  47. I got a feeling we are going to here some stupid plan about moving Bautista to third, Lawrie to second, and a Nelson Cruz signing (or RF acquisition)….

    And it will last two weeks into the season, until someone gets injured and the shuffle Bautista and Lawrie back to their original spots…

    • Why would you possibly think that?

      • I think its possible because they are running out of options….

        We saw them put Lawrie at second last year…

        I dont see anyway they go into the season with Goins as the starting second baseman…

        And I dont think they end up with Drew… I would bet he winds up back in beantown….

    • Thank god the Jays aren’t that dumb. Why sign Cruz and move everyone when you can just sign Drew and put him at 2nd?

  48. So still no news then. It’ll be an interesting crowd tonight…

    • I may be mistaken but I pretty sure there is no open mike portion of the program tonight.Questions are selected from presubmitted queries.

  49. Just a couple more minutes,
    This is so exciting.
    Hope I’m not disappointed.

  50. just hope the jays site can handle the traffic

    don’t need to be failed by mlbam

  51. The Beest is wearing socks!!!!

  52. Glitchy vid feed. Ugh.

    It’s uncanny how Buck looks more and more like Kenesaw Mountain Landis as the years go by.

  53. Gibby missed a dead hooker opportunity…. ;(

  54. I liked the Duck Dynasty and Honey Boo Boo quip from Gibby when he was talking about Colby. So deliciously ironic.

  55. Time to step up AA
    No more bs please
    Why hasn’t there been more upgrades on a 74 win team when eve one else got better

  56. Beest calling Buck “Albert” makes me smile.

  57. Nice Sonny Gray – Stroman comparison by AA.

    • KLaw on Stroman is maybe even better, even though I don’t want him to end up in the bullpen. If he does, though, Law calls him “a top-tier reliever, up in the Craig Kimbrel/Aroldis Chapman stratosphere.” Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

  58. Was a pretty weak performance overall but I guess I can’t really expect them to say much more in such a setting. Would be nice if they actually had a few players there to mingle with Fans I suppose, especially some of the younger prospects.

  59. Not one smile from people leaving…

  60. don’t think a single new thing was said, not sure what I expected…

  61. Maybe Stoeten will but couldn’t blame him for not writing a post on this bullshit.
    Did they actually say anything?

    • I guess to be fair in the age of twitter and 24 hour news, especially for devotees of places like this, there really isn’t going to be a lot of new info out there. Considering how careful AA is and what a politician Beeston is I doubt you’ll ever get much.

    • Yeah, I kind of figured it would be that way. Didn’t even bother getting my hung over ass down to the event, either. Some interesting things coming via fans talking to AA after though– one claiming he said that the team will shift defensively more this season, and that they didn’t because of Lawrie’s injury last year (?), and another saying he told Alex they should sign Burnett, to which he said, “We really want to.”

      • I caught some of that. Noticed that somebody mentioned that the shift was used less because of Lawrie’s injury. I thought it was more of a change in tactics by Gibby. Iwas wrong, it seems.
        Burnett comment was interesting ( if it was sincere,i’m skeptical)

        BTW. You’re correct. As you get older,it takes a bit longer to recover from hangovers.Or maybe as we age,we don’t give a shit about recovering and becoming a functioning person.
        It’s like “fuck it,I’m hungover,let the rest of the world deal with it”.

        • It might just be that I can drink more without passing out now, but the recovery abilities haven’t kept pace.

          As for the Jays, I’d heard something like quick-working guys like Buehrle and Dickey didn’t like the extra time that shifting would take, that it disrupted their rhythm. Or… maybe I’m extrapolating a little too much from that, or maybe it was just a theory anyway, now that I think about it. Seems a better excuse than the Lawrie thing.

          • I think it was Wilner who mentioned the timing thing ( or that was the first time i heard it),which is an entirely plausible explanation.Though anything that improves the defense,ya think the pitcher would be amiable to.
            You definitely build up a resistance,the more practice you get.Until you get to the point of drinking yourself sober.

  62. Meh….

  63. Yeah I also heard that the faster pitchers didn’t like the shift. However not all our starters are that fast.

    I long for the good old days of the open mike. I got to very politely call JPR a liar on one of those sessions.

  64. So according to davidi the jays had a trade for kinsler that fell apart. This was due to his no trade clause and the players not wanting to play in canada thing rears its ugly head again. Granted, the team was shit last year but why wouldnt kinsler agree? The roster is still talented. Same shit happened with uehara 2 or 3 years ago. Fucking pisses me off man.

    • That’s a serious revelation. Have to hand it to AA for making the attempt. Would have loved to know who was headed back the other way. Also that’s twice in one winter Detroit indirectly profited off of or messed with the Jays if you count the Fister trade.

      • Won’t lie, this news is actually crushing. That would’ve been a massive, massive pickup.

        Hate to be the one to start this, but looking at what Texas eventually got in return for Kinsler, don’t the odds have to be on Bautista having been the one heading to Texas?

        • I don’t see how it had to be Bautista because of what the Tigers and Rangers eventually worked out. The Tigers actually dumped salary onto the Rangers who were willing to do that to fill a hole they had at first for some time. Maybe it could have been EE or even Lind + others as I mentioned below. Again Lind has been a beast in Arlington. If the Jays needed to move salary to accommodate Kinsler’s, there were other options. Of course, maybe the Jays were just willing to take on the salary.

          • Yep, and bautista is more valuable than fielder because he can play defence adequately. Not gonna lie, this stings a lot. I rarely if ever see players rejecting trades to “supposedly” good teams. Makes me question whether the canada thing can ever be overcome.

            • It stings because Kinsler is a guy I’ve loved (at least for fantasy baseball) for a long time but I also wonder about the trade aspect. I still wonder if they wouldn’t be better off keeping the parts they’ve got and signing Drew in his place. Yes, Kinsler has the potential to have more impact but Kinsler is also older and more expensive in terms of dollars and commitment. Not to mention Drew had 109 wRC+ to Kinsler’s 105 wRC+ last year. Drew would likely run you 2 years, 3 max, less of a dollar commitment but potentially a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.

              I still think that signing Ubaldo, signing Drew and trading Happ for salary relief (if needed is the way to go. Though Gibby, god help me, seems really high on Happ for some reason.

              • You ever hear a manager not high on his current players, especially in an atmosphere like that? They’re not going to undercut him.

          • Lind is a platoon DH, let’s be serious.

            • Yes he’s a platoon player for sure but nothing wrong in picking up a guy who flat out rakes in a stadium where he would play 82 games a year. Obviously he would have been just a piece of the puzzle. If you factor in the commitment and the dollars, he would have been a good fit for the next two years and then given them flexibility for other things. Pair him up with Baker perhaps. Maybe they would have had room for a stronger push on Tanaka without having to take on Fielder’s salary.

    • Did he say that the deal fell apart, or did he say that Kinsler turned down the trade because he didn’t want to play in Canada?

    • Seriously doubt that playing in Canada is a deal breaker.
      Probably does not help, but the fact the team has not made the playoffs
      for 20 consecutive years would be a bigger deal and the fact that he’d have
      to play on turf might be the biggest deal of all.
      No that I know, but seems reasonable.

      • I think playing in Canada was the dealbreaker in this case. I mean, wouldnt kinsler look at the jays roster and say “thats pretty good”. Its not like he is getting traded to the houston astros in canada. He is not an old guy so i doubt the turf is a major problem. Who knows though.

        • Well then what’s the point of even talking to you if you’ve already decided what you think the cause was, and won’t listen to reason that suggests there are plenty of logical other possibilities?

    • Nonsense.

  65. Oh, this Kinsler news isn’t going to make…what’s her name happy.

  66. Fuck a Kinsler pick up woulda been clutch!! Perfect #2 bat behind Reyes

    Wonder what was going the other way? EE? Rasmus plus an arm?

    Too bad

  67. The permutations involved for the Kinsler trade are fascinating. I think I saw Stoeten saying he thinks it could have been Bautista but I have trouble seeing the Jays doing that for a number of reasons. Of course AA has always said nobody is untouchable but it really would have just created another hole to fill the one at second base and he’s already on record saying he wouldn’t do that. I wonder if it could have involved Santos (who Texas would have got in the Anderson trade) and other pieces, maybe Lind perhaps? He could have filled Fielders eventual spot, yes maybe not as well, but still pretty decently and far more cheaply. Don’t forget Lind is a beast in Arlington (1.080 career ops there). Quite fascinating.

  68. Ehh, State of the French Fries was pretty blah this time around. Needs more vinegar.

  69. So here’s a little bit of silly fun if you’re the conspiracy loving type. So if you are, go ahead and remove your tinfoil hat now.

    AA gets wind that Kinsler’s available. Maybe he hears that Detroit’s making a play for him and swoops in and tries to steal Kinsler out from under the Tigers. Deal falls apart due to Kinsler thinking he’s going to have to eat poutine everyday for the next 5 years. Rangers do the deal with the the Tigers as plan B. The Tigers then turn around and purposely cut the Jays out of the Fister deal less than 2 weeks later knowing full well that Toronto’s got better pieces for the Tigers. AA’s left scratching his head publicly but privately knows he’s been rebuked by his old school elder.

    Yeah yeah silly I know lol but man I just want some Jays action! Look what I am reduced to doing!

  70. Kinsler could have wanted his last year guaranteed or disliked the idea of turf or just didn’t want to up root his family from Texas with the idea that maybe he wouldn’t be dealt anywhere else. Who knows…I woulda also imagine that it woulda been JP++ going for Kinsler.

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