And we’re happy with this background?

According to Nick Cafardo’s latest for the Boston Globe, the Jays are one of several teams to have made a bid for Korean pitcher Suk-min Yoon. OK? He’s a Boras client, so don’t hold your breath. Here’s what Steve Adams said about him at MLBTR last week: Yoon, 27, was considered Korea’s second-best starting pitcher behind Hyun-jin Ryu following the 2012 season. A shoulder injury in 2013 prompted a move the the closer’s role with the Kia TIgers last season, but from 2011-12 Yoon posted a 2.77 ERA with 8.7 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 325 1/3 innings as a starter. As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes noted in Yoon’s free agent profile, his fastball sits in the 91 to 93 mph range, and he won the KBO’s MVP Award in 2011 for his outstanding work in the Kia Tigers’ rotation.

Bluebird Banter has spoken with Dustin McGowan and learned that the Jays have acquiesced to his request to attempt to pitch as a starter in 2014, “on the condition that he work separately from the other starters in a personalized program at the beginning of spring training.” Hard for them to say anything else with a rotation as unsettled as theirs currently is, and… well… we all know the story: could be great if he stays healthy, but he inevitably won’t. Here’s hoping, for his sake, something finally changes in a positive way, but I can’t see it being anything but a longshot that he could actually win a job in the rotation. Or… I don’t know… it’s not like he’s going to be up against a bunch of world beaters. At least this all should make for an interesting spring for once.

In the McGowan piece it’s also noted that 2014 will be his fifteenth season in the Jays’ organization. Holy fuck.

Buster Olney tweets that it’s worth repeating to point out that “the Jays are in a great position to sit back and wait for Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez to agree to a deal on team’s terms.” Yep.

To that effect — and the effect of our previous post here — Shi Davidi of Sportsnet tells us that everything remains status quo for the Jays. Just in case you hadn’t noticed.

Spring Training Online lists the report dates for pitchers and catchers, as well as position players, for each club this spring, and the Jays are really leaving themselves open to having the silly “too relaxed” narrative take hold. They’re one of four teams to be asking pitchers and catchers to report by February 16th, which is the latest date any club is doing so this year. They’ll be the last team to put pitchers through their first workout, they’re one of just seven clubs whose position players don’t report until the 20th or later, and one of seven who won’t have their first full workout until the 21st or later. I don’t think this matters one iota, but it would be sort of nice if they were savvy enough to not have given reason to talk about it at all.

So… Dan Norris might be awesome. Melissa Couto of the Canadian Baseball Network checks in on the prospect and the ’78 VW Westfalia camper van he basically lives in. No, really.

Speaking of awesome prospect-y things, Brian Crawford of Jays Prospects talks to Griffin Murphy’s moustache.

According to a QMI story in the Toronto Sun, Roberto Alomar is selling his Tampa area mansion for $6.5-million, and because there’s shit all else going on, now I’m writing about it.

Gregor Chisholm checks in with his weekly mailbag — er… Inbox — post at BlueJays.com.

Elsewhere at BlueJays.com, Gregor looks at which players have been invited to Spring Training with the Jays, and highlights a pair of first timers in the big league camp: Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez.

Lastly, in the latest of his outstanding Primary Sources series at Getting Blanked, Jack Moore tells us that baseball has always been too slow.

Comments (175)

  1. Olney’s tweet makes me wonder if the Jays should just – or maybe they already have – reach out to Santana’s and Ubaldo’s agents, give them the same offer as the Jays best, and tell them both the offer expires as soon as the other accepts.

  2. Did you just watch pirates of the caribbean by any chance?

  3. moustache!!

  4. I wonder what will the msm do if they don’t make a move at all to improve a last place tram

  5. As for the late reporting date, it looks like the Jays have a very busy Spring. Only two off days – I seem to recall more than two most years and they have the Montreal games at the end.

    So the late reporting date could be a union thing or the Jays just trying to be easy on the guys.

    I can’t believe I’m commenting on this.

    • Veteran team, not a lot of position battles…
      oh god, you’re right. who cares.

    • Good points, Lewis. Yeah… could be any of that.

    • Do teams really need more than a month and a half. Diamondback pitchers have already reported right?

      Most guys train in the off-season anyways, seems like the Jays have more than enough time.

      • D’Backs and Dodgers going early because their regular season opens March 22-23 in Australia.

        Wonder if Graeme Lloyd will do the play-by-play…

  6. Stoeten,if you would only take your empties back to the beer store, you’d be able to afford to make an offer Alomar’s place.
    Gimme a call and i’ll give you a hand.
    Rent a couple of semi’s and get er done.

  7. This background is far too Leno-ey

  8. Leave McGowan in the pen, let him make spot starts should the situation call for it, which it most likely will. Please AA do not even for one millisecond consider McGowan as a starting option.

    • Really? The guy has the potential to be the best starter on this team. I think its the greatest opportunity to improve this team. Especialy with how many out of option releivers there.

      • Sure, it is possible, but it certainly isn’t likely.

      • His potential is long long gone. Hey I’d love for the guy just to be an effective reliever… but there is absolutely zero chance of him being a starter, let alone an effective one. It’s a pipe dream.

        • Holy shit, you couldn’t be more wrong about everything if you tried.

          You’re not just trying to be wrong about stuff, are you?

          Obviously it’s a long shot. But just as obviously, your statement is dumb.

          • Jesus Murphy do you have a vendetta against me or what? What I said I think was obvious yet accurate. How in the hell can you advocate McGowan as a starter? Based his performances from 6 years ago?

            • I have nothing against you, just your ridiculous statements and your way of trying to shift the discussion when you get called out on them.

              Notice the change: You now ask, “How in the hell can you advocate McGowan as a starter?” But, of course, I wasn’t doing that. I was simply saying that your previous statement — “there is absolutely zero chance of him being a starter, let alone an effective one” — is obviously incorrect.

              We can have a debate about the merits of giving McGowan the chance to start and whether he could succeed at it. But there is no debating that saying that “there is absolutely zero chance of him being a starter” is dumb. Of course there is more than zero chance of that. Maybe not a whole lot more, but certainly more than you’re saying.

              That’s all this is about. That single wrong statement. Not advocating for McGowan or not, just the single nonsense thing you said. (It is also, partly, about how this appears to be a pattern with you.)

              • Exactly; McGowan could be lightning in a bottle. Kazmir came back and had a good year. Look at the potential upside. Why dismiss it outright, HJ?

              • Would me saying there’s a 1% chance McGowan starts for the Jays be reasonable then? I think you’re splitting hairs on someone’s opinion is all… If you want to argue my points then giddy up there’s no point here… he hasn’t started in 6 years. It would be a Christmas miracle.

              • And I wasn’t insinuating McGowan be thrown out with the trash, he has a place on this team. But I think people’s expectations get out of whack then if there’s a disaster season like last year folks are saying ‘oh geez McGowan looked good but was on the DL’

                What’s next? It’s ‘possible’ that Romero make a comeback?

                • Haha go away

                  • Oh give me a break.
                    I’m optimistic about certain areas of this team.

                    Bautista, Edwin, Reyes – these are premium players in the league. Rasmus had an excellent season and could easily best that. We haven’t seen the best of Lawrie yet.

                    I’m happy with all the position players, it’s the pitching that’s troublesome. I’m not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it’s fine because the Jays have lousy internal options.

                • Well I’ve mentioned this before, but Santana’s 2013 followed up a season in which he was at least as bad as Ricky Romero. You’re pretty emphatic in your argument that the Jays should sign Santana. Maybe you should accept that players change, fluctuate, improve and regress, and that speaking in finite terms about a player is kind of stupid.

                  • Dude, give it up… Romero won’t see another major league stadium unless he goes as a fan.

                    Yes i understand the fluctuation of a player, it’s the nature of the game especially with pitchers. I’m not 100% sold on Santana either, or Jimenez.. I just want the Jays to improve their rotation and Santana or Jimenez do that…. that’s me being emphatic.

                    • “Romero won’t see another major league stadium unless he goes as a fan.”

                      And you would have said the exact same thing about Ervin Santana heading into 2013.

                    • So weird. Pretty sure that’s yet another completely nonsense comment.

                      Birdie, you’re not quite grasping how discussion works. If you expect to have a dialogue, you don’t make ridiculous, easily disputed proclamations. Because that’s where we get sidetracked, correct you, and where you inevitably back the truck up and poke around for a similar point that you’re crossing your fingers won’t be similarly recognized. Kind annoying. Just start from statements that are reasonable, thanks.

              • Splitting beard hairs…tediousjayfans

                • Romero could still start for the Jays in 2014..
                  The Jays have a plethora of viable options for their starting rotation
                  McGowan hasn’t started in 6 years but he could still have what it takes to start for the Jays, forget the injury troubles.


                  • The funny thing is that by saying those things and intentionally trying to sound over the top and ridiculous by sarcastically saying things no one here ever said, you’ve made your most accurate post yet!

                    There’s more truth behind the statement “Ricky Romero could start in 2014″ and your assertion that “Ricky Romero will never pitch in the Majors again” because one leaves open the idea that things could somehow, miraculously turn around. The same goes for McGowan starting and the rotation depth.

                    • You know that Romero is something like 9th on the depth chart right, and if it comes to him actually starting a game this season will be a cluster fuck of epic proportion..

                    • Or he figures things out, gets back to being close to the pitcher he used to be, dominates in the minors and moves up the depth chart. I would never suggest that that will happen, and the odds are weighing pretty heavily against him, but I never would have thought Juan Uribe would be amazing last year or that Adam Lind would suddenly have another productive season or that Matt Carpenter would turn into an MVP candidate or that Francisco Liriano would become an ace or that Jose Fernandez would be one of the best pitchers in the league without pitching a single inning above A-ball.

                      This is baseball. Pretending you know anything at all about what’s going to happen in the future is stupid.

                  • Who’s the new douche?

        • Its worth the risk. The absolute value of him being a decent starter is greater than the negative impact of him blowing his arm out and not even being in the league.

          at least as far as the jays are concerned. if anything, dustin should be the guy being conservative. he only has one throwing arm. the jays have myriad power pen arms.

          • let mcgowan start til he blows his shoulder off, then hopefully Stroman is passed the super-2 date by then.

  9. Reading DJF the last few months I’ve had much less of a hankering for sweet, delicious, ice cold Coors Light. Is that going to be an in-season thing only or are we done with sponsors?

    Not that I had any issue with it at all FYI. Someone’s gotta pay the bills.

  10. Might as well throw Romero and the kids back out there too. Romero (the ace)/Mcgowan/Morrow/Stroman/Sanchez would be a little funny and exciting. A little sad too.

  11. how many people remember Dustin 1 hit at Coors… ahhhh what a memory…. when him and Casey were our best up and coming pitchers.

  12. So Daniel Norris LIVES in ’78 VW Westfalia camper van after he signed for a $2 MM bonus? Sounds like he could be a bit of a flake which is sometimes a good thing in a pitcher. Personally I prefer Reed Johnson’s Shelby Cobra but it’s a fun read. Also interesting to see Vince Horsman’s name pop up.

    • I remember seeing Vince when I was a kid in Dartmouth. I think he has an older brother, who went to the same school as me…..

    • I love that he is a little eccentric and thoughtful. I can’t wait for him to pick up where he left off last season. He’s a true blue-chip prospect in the making.

  13. “Buster Olney tweets that it’s worth repeating to point out that “the Jays are in a great position to sit back and wait for Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez to agree to a deal on team’s terms.” Yep.”

    Uh, ya, if you´re the only team in the running. MLBTR is suggesting otherwise….

  14. Royals just put Bonifacio on unconditional release waivers…let’s claim him (it’ll only cost $3.5M)….hahaha

    • Happened last week.
      Wilner says he’d take a shot with him but the consensus of the fan base is no thanks.

    • I’d be for taking a shot at him to be a 4th OF type if the Jays’ bench looked different and he didn’t cost so much. He’s definitely got more usefulness than many fans here will give him credit for (though it’s hard to fault anyone for not being able to see past the disaster that was his 2013 here), but even if he was a fit — say if the pipe dream of signing Morales and trading Lind came to fruition and there was a spot for a utility OF speedster who didn’t have to be a platoon guy — I’d figure the cost is still prohibitive.

      • When is his arbitration contract out the window? He was DFAd last week wouldnt he go on waivers immediately at that point? Is he off 40 man roster? Can’t other teams pick him up for less than the arbitration amount at some point – maybe now? If he is available on waivers for even half the arb amount (which I think I recall was something that happens) then he may be worth a pickup and bench spot.

        • One day I’ll know how to answer questions like that without having to look it up first.

        • If he clears release waivers he becomes a free agent and may sign
          with any team for any amount upon which the two sides agree.

        • According to MLBTR if he clears waivers (at that price, he likely will), he can resign as a FA with anyone. He’ll likely catch on with someone as a 4th outfielder at a much more reasonable price.

  15. Emilio Bonifacio experiment 2.0?

  16. “we all know the story: could be great if he stays healthy, but he inevitably won’t”

    Thanks for clearing that up

    • We’ve cornered the market of power pitching, oft-injured, type 1 diabetics.

    • There is such a vast chasm between Morrow’s and McGowan’s ability to stay healthy that I shouldn’t even be dignifying this with a response.

      Morrow since joining the Jays (and therefore the rotation full-time): 504 IP, averaged 126 IP (lower because of being shut down early) and 22 starts per year.

      McGowan since joining the rotation in May 2007 (inclusive): 326 MLB IP, 375 total IP, averaged 53.2 IP per year. Since the end of 2008: 94 total IP, averaged 19 IP per year.

      Like… we get the difference, right?

      • Lou: [Lou hits Tyler in the face] Do you hear me now?
        Tyler Durden: No, I didn’t quite catch that, Lou.
        [Lou hits Tyler again]
        Tyler Durden: Still not getting it.
        [Lou hits Tyler a few more times]
        Tyler Durden: Ok, I got it. Shit, I lost it.
        [Lou continues to beat up Tyler]

  17. So with Burnett seemingly not wanting to pitch in the AL East and Santana moving closer to a deal that isn’t driven by the Jays, I’m guessing it shakes out like this: Burnett to the Phillies or Pirates, Santana to the Mariners and Jimenez to the Orioles or Blue Jays. I’m not sure why but I really think Santana will go to the M’s. For one thing the ballpark makes sense for him as flyballs die in the outfield there and secondly they look like they’re going all in now after signing Rodney and being close on Cruz.

    • Oh and since they’ve already given up a 2nd, Santana will only cost them a 3rd rounder, maybe a 4th if they get Cruz.

  18. Happy family day for bc residents. The rest of Canada enjoy your day at work. It’s snowing all day so I decided to wake up at noon and drink whiskey for the rest of the day. Yay baseball.

  19. If Santana goes to the Yanks I will cry real tears

  20. Just finished Jon Paul Morosi’s piece on players that are likely to be moved by the end of Spring Training.


    What caught my eye was the “log jam” of Yankee outfielders.

    For the RH bat of the bench, could Alfonso Soriano be a fit for the Jays?

    • Are the Yanks likely to trade him to an AL East team?

      • I don’t think it’s that simple.

        Teams can be motivated by many reasons to trade within the division.

        He’s not cheap at 5 million, so the market shrinks right away for a part time player (many teams have payroll in place at the beginning of the year squeezing the market even more).

        25 and 40 man roster management is a squeeze for many teams once the season starts. Which also floods the market with options, thus potentially lowering Soriano’s value

        It’s not like it’s a top level prospect being traded that could haunt a team for a generation.

        The Yanks could really need the piece coming back (ex. a bullpen arm).

        Just a few reasons of the top of my head.

        Soriano could be a nice little addition, but please don’t confuse him with David Price.

  21. The best Spin Doctoring award goes too…….

  22. At this point, I’m fine with going with what we have now and maybe more accurately assessing our needs at the trade deadline. I guess it’s too early to speculate who might be available then. Maybe we’re better off saving our cash and trade bullets until then. I still like the team.

    • People would certainly lose their shit but I don’t really disagree. Gives your lower level prospects a few more months of development, maybe one of them manages to get promoted and becomes that much more attractive as trade bait.
      Also, I feel pretty good about AA’s ability to do midseason trades. Seems to be among his strongest traits as gm.

    • i like the team too – there’s legit playoff calibre talent on the roster. the problem is that to a slightly lesser degree than last year, their success is pretty much balanced on the edge of a knife. Injury risk with this roster seems higher than it is for most teams, and the performances of Navarro (full-time starter?), Cabrera (post-PED, post-tumour bounceback), Rasmus (survival with the high K-rate) and Lawrie (will he hit?) also seem like wildcards to varying degrees.

  23. Having a hard time grasping why any team would move an elite starter in his mid-20′s to the pen after a shoulder injury. Did they rush him back knowing he had his sights set on MLB, or is the closer role just a more prestigious job over there than we treat it in North America? So strange to me how easily everyone bristles right over that moving to the pen because of an injury part when we’re talking about something that just doesn’t happen over here, not with guys that good (relative to his peers) and that young.

  24. Random report suggesting Jays are one of the final two teams in on Santana.


    • No it says they are among multiple teams talking to him. Nothing about being the final two teams.

  25. There is a great article over at Hardball Times on hitting titled “Ground Balls: A Hitter’s Best Friend?” that is well worth the read. I immediately thought of Lawrie and his struggles the last two years with hitting fly balls compared to his first year where his power really impressed. I wonder if he changed his approach appreciably in his first full year. I also wonder that if spending a good portion of his 2011 season in Vegas where getting the ball into the air was a bonus, carried over nicely upon his call up but was later discarded in 2012 at managements behest. His GB rates improved slightly in 2013 to 48.5% but that is 10% worse than his debut season. Be interesting to see what the new hitting coach’s philosophy is this spring.

  26. My favourite moment of the offseason so far was when the Phillies fans thought they were getting Bautista for Domonic Brown and hated it

  27. I hope the jays aren’t holding out for a couple million discount, if so then AA is a moron.

  28. What a weird offseason though. I know that Tanaka had a lot to do with the slow development. but we are heading in to pitchers and catchers reporting and 2 of the top 4 pitchers available are still un signed.

  29. I didn’t see this article linked from the DJF search function…..

    “Todd Redmond looks forward to seeing the results of the weighted-ball program”


    The weighted ball program has had a pretty good track record in this org so far.

    It feels like every championship team has a couple guys come out of nowhere to really contribute.

    Here’s hoping.

  30. @Philbert

    You do realize how ridiculous it sounds to say that Romero might figure it out? He’s done.

    I might win the lottery next week.. LOL… but the odds are pretty slim so lets just go out on a LIMB and say I won’t win the lottery…. see what I mean there?

    • Anybody who throws a baseball with their left hand with a fastball that sits in the low 90′s is not done.

      • If he can’t get it over the plate and the batter knows he can’t also then he may be done. Add in the fact he is a lefty that lefties hit well and it is not looking good.

        If we were in total rebuild I think they would send him out there and recoup some of the money they are paying him, hopefully. I am hoping no one starts this year who we have to hope can somehow pull off a quality start.

        • There is no question that this both a not simple and non guaranteed fix.

          At the very least the guy needs an out pitch vs. LHB and likely a mechanical rebuild.

          If the Jays got one 5 inning emergency spot start out of him with 4 earned runs given up that allowed the team to eek out a 5-4 vs. Baltimore I would be consider the year a success.

          But as long as the guy is willing, and like I said, throws with his left hand and can sit in the low 90′s the Jays will continue to attempt to fix him.

          Now if his velocity was to drop, that would be a different story.

          I wonder if he too was on the weighted ball program?

          • They have to pay him either way. He is not on the 40 man roster so he is not exposing a more valuable asset at this point. If he is still in the minors all this year with the same crappy numbers I would think he is done as far as the Jays go. He may get a minor league deal on the fact that he once posted a sub 3 ERA in the AL East. It’s too bad, it would be great to have Ricky at 7 mil this season in theory out producing what Santana and Jiminez have done.

    • My thought on the pitching is that yes there are a lot of unlikely options / lottery tickets to be solid contributors with the key being the quantity. Similar to minor league system in general lots of lottery picks with potential most wont work out but with many options good chance a couple will.

      Romero, MgGowen very unlikely but have potential to be very good. Happ, Hutchnison, Drabek, Rogers, Stroman better chance to be good. Redmond, Jenkins, McGuire, Sanchez, Nolin, Luis Perez long shots. Potential for guys out of nowhere like Alvarez, Litsch, Hutchinson, Luis Perez in the past. That is a lot of guys for 2 spots. Last year Cecil was considered likely DFA / waiver wire and was an all star. I cant remember the Jays ever having this kind of depth / potential.

      Of course like every other fan would like to see 1 or 2 of the FA SP. Myself I am more concerned with catcher, 2B and position player depth. There the primary options are not very good and there isn’t much potential behind them. All across the diamond there is little depth behind the starters. Much more concerning the potential of a couple position players being hurt and running 2 backups as well as Goins and Navarro out there than a couple of those many SP options out there. Seeing the lineup last September was uglier than the rotation figures to be this year even if a couple of the starters go down.

    • Your comprehension skills continue to blow me away.

      I would say the odds of Romero turning things around are somewhere around those of a 29-year-old, journeyman, replacement level middle infielder becoming the best hitter in the world. Or of his teammate pulling a near-identical feat a couple years later.

      They’re certainly no worse than the comebacks we saw from Santana and Kazmir this year.

      • Awesome, lets go for the attacks now…

        Well when you train your brain to act less like a rock and more like something that fires a neuron occasionally lets have a discussion. My point is, extremely low odds… Tossing out rare examples doesn’t back your argument, it only fuels your argument to that of rarity.. and if you want to consider rarity a possibility, then you’re certainly welcome to but you’re ony fooling yourself in the end.

        • I like how you posted that immediately after calling someone else a dickhead. Complaining about your reading comprehension isn’t an attack. Every single response you’ve given to everyone has completely ignored the points they’ve made while making up things that they didn’t say. It’s not like I’m the only one who’s noticed this.

          And I just gave you two examples from this past year of pitchers who were just as far gone as Romero and had huge comebacks. It certainly isn’t likely, but it’s not as rare as you want to think it is.

          • Did you miss the part where I was called a troll?

            I understand the examples you’re giving me, but you”re ignoring my point too.
            Is there a chance Romero could make a comeback? Sure, there’s a chance. But it’s extremely unlikely. I think my reading comprehension is about on par with yours, insofar as we don’t agree with what each other is writing.

            • This whole discussion has been about your “Romero is done and there’s no chance he ever pitches in the majors again” vs. everyone else’s “He’s probably done, but there’s at least a slim chance he could figure things out”. No one ever said it was likely. It’s just a possibility.

              “Sure, there’s a chance. But it’s extremely unlikely. I think my reading comprehension is about on par with yours, insofar as we don’t agree with what each other is writing.”

              See, I’m pretty sure we don’t disagree, since this is what I’ve been saying all along.

    • As did Stoeten, I’m sensing a pattern of absolute statements by you that are patently incorrect. You sir, are a war hardened troll of death. Begone so we can continue our intelligent back and forth squable on the chances of our spare part arms.

    • look Romero is probably done, his mechanics are wacky, he can’t strike out lefties etc… I personally doubt he will ever properly contribute at the MLB level again.

      But to make declaritive statements like he IS done, and not leaving the statement a little open ended isnt going to do you any favours.

      • Exactly. And no one here (like… literally not a single person) has suggested that he will make a comeback or that it’s at all likely. We’re just open to the possibility that it could potentially happen.

  31. May have been mentioned, not going to scan all comments to confirm, 2014 Top 100 Prospect list now up at Fangraphs.

    Nose in at #18, Sanchez at #22. Decent ranking for Sanchez, Fangraphs seems to like him still.

    Nose above Bundy….:(

    But at least Sanchez is above Gausman!

    D’Arnaud at #39…hope he keeps dropping!

    Marcus at #56, nice…nice…above Nicolino who is at #63. Boy is that Marlins haul looking crappier by the day…Marisnick also at #69.

    Mitch Nay sneeks in at #100! Thata boy!

    • The Marlin trade was a good one, it was the Dickey trade that was kinda bad in hindsight

      • There is still plenty to play out in the Dickey trade…..

        We saw an injured Dickey last year, and he was extended at a great price.

        Until d’Arnaud and Syndergaard do anything substantial in MLB, they remain prospect porn.

        Let’s pick this conversation up in 3 years.

        • doesn’t work like that.

          Mets have assets now that they could theoretically move, they won’t, but they could.

          Having an unproven prospect doesn’t mean they are worthless.

          • I agree with you. Never said they were worthless. I understand that the Mets have acquired assets, but the assets remain speculative, hence my use of the word porn.

      • Definately agree we won the Marlins trade, I might not have articulated that point too well.

        Still not sold on the Dickey trade. However, in a lot of similar trades from the last ten years if you look up any All Star player traded for 2 prospects the All Star player almost inevitably produces more return to the big league club. Sure, there are outliers. But prospects are still just gambling chips.

      • Hindisght being what it is I dont think we can say we won the Marlins trade – not saying it was necessarily a bad trade.

        Just considering contributions to teams last year it was close. Alvarez was as good as Buehrle last year albeit with lots less innings, Escobar as valuable or more than Reyes, JJ had an ERA over 6, Bonafacio was very poor, and Buck was mediocre although he didn’t play for the Jays. And don’t even want to calculate the cost differential there.

        Going forward we expect the same from Buehrle and more from Reyes. Then consider the prospects involved that haven’t made MLB impact yet and will for the minimum salary.

    • What I really like about the Jays system is that there are so many high end prospects, they’re just at lower levels so they don’t get the same recognition on lists like this because proximity to the majors is always a big factor. If you take the Jays ten best short-season prospects and just two or three of them continue to progress at full-season ball, I think the Jays could have several prospects move onto lists like this over the next couple years without even factoring in upcoming draft picks. I find the Jays system really exciting.

      • Thers’ a lot of potential in the lower levels but they’re still 4 or 5 years away.Osuna was good before his surgery,any 6’8″ lefty like Smoral gets my attention but it’s still a long way off. aside from Stroman or Sanchez,there’s not a lot that you’ll see in the next two years.By the time they arrive,if they arrive,very few of the current players will still be here.

        • I hope this year they attempt to draft a position player early.

          I originally liked the idea of drafting young power arms early and often, but it is a risky move, no matter what pitchers are going to be more likely to flame out due to injury.

        • Hence the crucial need to keep Sanchez and Stromanf

        • Well… yeah, but that was kind of my point. They’re definitely a long way away from the majors, but for a lot of prospect evaluators, the high ceilings on a lot of the Jays prospects are kind of irrelevant at this point because they’re just so far away from the majors.

          Barreto, for example, put up huge numbers last year, especially for a 17 year old, but he probably didn’t warrant much consideration because he was playing rookie ball. If he comes anywhere close to replicating that success at Lansing, he’ll probably find his way onto some of these lists pretty quickly. A lot of players are in the same boat… that’s actually why Nay’s inclusion on the Fangraphs list surprised me so much.

          I like a lot of Keith Law’s work, but I feel like he’s underselling the Jays system for that same reason.

          • @ Philbert

            I agree about the high upside prospects,I’m just trying to keep it in perspective. Tirado was listed as something that could be special also.

            • Of course, and that’s why I don’t think it’s unreasonable for prospect evaluators to be hesitant with guys like this. I should clarify, I don’t think Law is unreasonable with his assessment of the Jays system (what did he have it, 24th or something?) I just feel like he’s almost treating the low-level, high-ceiling guys as if they don’t exist until they perform over a full season.

              Either way, regardless of what the Jays do, watching some of these guys play once they graduate to Lansing could be a lot of fun this year.

              • @ Philbert
                I agree, I like following the players and see how it all turns out.
                I’m not very good at evaluations though,always thought Romak woulda gone further than Votto.I missed that one.LOL

    • this is stupid.. Why do you hope Darnaud keeps dropping? Why do you hope Nicolino doesn’t live up to hype?

      Whats done is done, you cant go back in time, so it really doesn’t matter if we won the trade or not. but if you are a jays fan, you should be routing for these guys not hoping they fail, so you can warm and fuzzy that we won a trade, like that fucking helps anything.

      Our current staff are the ones that drafted these kids, signed them and developed them in to the prospects we traded. you should hope they become stars, because that is a good indication that these guys know what they’re doing.

      • Well, your entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I can see just as much fault in my schadenfraude as with your childish name calling and inaccurate facts.

        We didn’t draft all those prospects. Some of them were traded for. And the best sign that they know what they are doing is when they sell an asset at its peak, or keep that asset around to realize it’s peak.

        Its all about buying low and selling high, not ensuring every draft pick is a success regardless of where they end up. That’s how I measure success in our front office.

        • suddenly you take the high road after you’re writing about hoping a 23 year old kid fails? lol

          you have to give up talent to get talent, the point of trading prospects, in this case, was to acquire talent that could provide at and mlb ready level, not trying to move prospects at their ‘peaks’ and hoping they fall off a cliff after.

          Do you think marlin fan(s) were out there hoping reyes got injured and johnson shit the bed so they can deem the trade a win?

          • Suddenly? I’d like to think I rode in on the high train and will ride out on it.

            When did I say I hope he fails? I said I hope his prospect stock falls. Entirely different things. If he goes on to become the next Buster Posey (highly unlikely) it will be the Jeff Kent trade all over again, without the World Series to soothe the burn.

            You are assuming a lot in your second paragraph. Not saying it’s wrong, but some GM’s will move players they have soured on effectively moving them at their perceived “peak” in trade value terms. It takes a lot more talent to pry away a prospect a team really has a hard on for.

            As for Marlins fans. They don’t exist….that is why you heard nothing. Moving along.

            Hope you don’t live in a glass house…

  32. How you holding up Stoeten?

    Depressingly small amount of stuff to write about now.

    Hope your on salary and not paid by the post. Hang in there.

  33. steve adams from mlbtr live chat: in order to “help the jays”, they should forget about Santana and get Jiminez. Funny, I´m not hearing much about Jiminez

    • its been oddly silent about him.

      he was pretty awful in 2011 and 2012. but he was pretty good last year and he was amazing in 2010.

      I guess 50% chance of being awful isn’t worth a draft pick and 40 million bucks these days

      • He was also awful for the first half of 2013. The only reason why he has good stats for 2013 was because he was absolutely filthy for the last third of the season. Too bad the teams he faced were nothing to write home about

        • I think that’s overstating his low points a bit, but there should definitely be some concern over his inconsistency. He was pretty good awesome in 2009-10, pretty good in 2011, awful in 2012, good in 2013 (and his first half wasn’t really that bad).

          I think he would be worth signing if he could contribute like anything other than the 2012 version.

  34. Can anyone simply explain to me how this works? why only on the hook for 575k? isn’t the
    contract for approx. 3 million? Thanks!

    Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Royals will only be on the hook for about $575K of Emilio Bonifacio’s salary if he clears release waivers tomorrow at 2pm ET and becomes a free agent. While a claim is unlikely, a number of teams are interested in Bonifacio, he adds in a second tweet.

    • A contract accepted through arbitration is not guarenteed, and since the royals put him on unconditional release waivers, once he clears the waiver wire, the royals pay a fraction of the contract, and Boneface is a new free agent.

  35. With the Blue Jays – I normally see with rose colored glasses…
    But I can’t see anything close to 88-90 wins with this roster in the A.L. East…

    Jiminez gives up too many base runners for me to think he is going to be a #1 or even a #2 for us. (don’t get me wrong – I’d rather have him than no one) – but even with him – I think its a 4th place finish for us

    I’d rather us made the qualifying offer to Josh Johnson and rolled the dice that way

    • If we sign jiminez, we become a better team then the yankees, simply because we have a lineup with less holes then them. We also have much better lower pitching depth. Plus our only real hole is second base, whereas the yankees have a puke worthy infield.

      So I would say we’re on the cusp on being better then the Yankee’s so we have a pretty decent line-up. At least a #3.

      • I agree, add talent, especially if its for the right price. If Stroman or Sanchez beat the door down, you will find a spot for them. Theres no way we go an entire year with 5 pitchers anyways.

        • i’m not sure that the yankees starting depth is that much weaker if at all. i dont’t think that sabathia will rebound all the way but- they do have two other potentially excellent starters. and ivan nova ended up quietly having a very promising year last year. phelps gets k’s and, even though pineda hasn’t pitched in two years, his velocity is intact and he says that he is back to himself. plus, there is reasonable chance that they still sign someone. it’s maybe not dominant but it is alright.

      • Yankees I think are way under rated and they are my pick to win the division even if Jays get Santana and Jiminez. They are this years Sox in my opinion underrated after an off year and major improvements

        They could have a crappy infield but Jeter and Johnson shouldn’t be expected to be terrible and Jeter is a decent bet to be very good offensively. Ryan is very good defensive SS and Roberts could return to form. They have 4 perennial all stars in McCann, Texiera, Ellsbury & Beltran with Gardner who is a very solid player and Soriano a bit of a wildcard at DH. And they have good veteran depth off the bench. The Yankees rotation is very good. I think CC is a good bet to return to form, Tanaka and Kurodo very good, Nova is solid and Pineda is a big time sleeper who could be very very good and then pen looks average to good.

  36. Blue Jays sign some one soon please so we have something else to talk about. The DJF tribe is going all Lord of The Flies while arguing about Ricky Romero.

  37. An arb eligible player, once signed is not a fully guarnteed contract. If said player is released prior to, I believe , Mar31, the host team (KC) is only on the hook for 1/6 of the salary, hence 575k, and the player becomes a FA

  38. Kenny Ken Ken has had a few interesting tidbits (nothing that new) on PTS just now.

    Mostly thinks the Jays are fully in the driver’s seat on Jimenez/Santana, and that they likely won’t sign with anyone until after pitchers and catchers report.

    • I was trying to figure out when the arbitrary deadline days would be and that’s one of them. The next one I think would be full squad workouts and then 1st Grapefruit league game. After that nothing (unless you count cutdown days) til opening day.

  39. Really?? Not entirely sure how I feel about that. Sorta like kissing your sister.


    • Fastball not much of an article. Basically saying maybe the Jays should trade for Samardzija…yeah, maybe.

      • Yeah – content-wise, it’s no Sermon from the Mount.
        But I’m so goddamned starved for Jays’ news, that I felt compelled to share – just in case, you know, there’s anyone else who feels somewhat the same.

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