Spring Training isn’t maybe in full swing just yet, but it’s pretty close. Many reporters have made the trip to Dunedin already, so it’s time for the annual tradition of every media outlet in town publishing a whole bunch pretty much the exact same story. And a bunch more that’s great, too! Baseball!

Mike Petriello of FanGraphs looks at the Jays’ second base problem, and offers all the solutions we’re aware of that almost certainly aren’t actually going to happen, unfortunately. Grim.

In the Toronto Star, Richard Griffin figures that the Orioles have ruined the Jays chances at Ervin Santana by setting the bar too high, and too close to the Matt Garza deal. Hard not to share the concern at this point.

Last week Griffin also penned an excellent tribute to former Jays manager, the late Jim Fregosi.

Regarding Santana, MLBTR looks at the latest on the last remaining big-ish name free agent pitcher, including the fact that several teams are now in on him, apparently. Shi Davidi of Sportsnet looks at the possibility of the Jays still landing him, while at Getting Blanked, Drew gives his skillset the benefit of the doubt… sort of.

At his North Of Border blog, Gregor Chisholm gives us some early impressions on camp, including the fact that the club really likes Erik Kratz — he’s worked with Dickey in the off-season and apparently the Jays are really looking for a reason to take him north, which sounds like a plan to me — and that J.A. Happ’s spot in the rotation seems pretty well set. Hmmm.

Speaking of Happ, he’s an easy case to spin if you don’t allow anybody to think too much about it, I think: great last spring, got hurt, fixed his arm angle, great in September. Lots of ways to think he could be alright, if you really want to. I dunno though. To that effect: Shi Davidi writes about his adjustments for Sportsnet. Ken Fidlin of the Sun looks at the adjustments as well, while John Lott of the Post talks about his knee (or at least that’s what his piece’s title does).

Jays Journal passes along word via the Houston Chronicle that the Astros are now talking with the Washington Nationals about finding a new spring facility in Florida. They were, of course, involved with the Jays until the deal with Palm Beach Gardens collapsed.

Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail goes full on into the silly “Jays needed to be better prepared in Spring Training” narrative.

In the National Post, John Lott tells us about Casey Janssen’s recent proposal — which he did while skydiving.

Dioner Navarro is ready to catch every day, so says he — and the Jays are banking on it. At least, according to Gregor at BlueJays.com, John Lott of the National Post, and Ken Fidlin of the Toronto Sun.

Fidlin and Lott, and presumably others I’ve failed to save in my RSS reader, tell us about Brandon Morrow’s added weight — muscle weight, that is. Probably in the best shape of his life, if you ask me. Gregor also takes a look at where Morrow is at.

In a notebook post at BlueJays.com, Gregor looks at Erik Kratz, who is trying to get comfortable with the knuckleball, as well as the issues the Jays have with players who are out of minor league options, and how good Kyle Drabek reportedly looked in his first session of the spring.

Davidi and Fidlin both tell us about Jose Reyes’s proclamation that his ankle is fine.

Shi also tells us about Marcus Stroman’s relaxing habit — chewing gum — while Fidlin looks at the youngster’s chances of making the rotation, and Lott contrasts Stroman with Tomo Ohka.

R.A. Dickey has been tabbed to take the ball for the Jays on Opening Day, according to… everyone. No link necessary says the lazy man trying to get a link dump done in time to go see if he can’t find the Canada hockey game on a TV somewhere at a bar in Alabama on a Wednesday afternoon.

Several more from the Sun’s Ken Fidlin, as he tells us that Dickey thinks the Jays will be better this year, gives us nine concerns for the 2014 Jays, looks at pitching depth, and tells us about Ryan Goins and his chances.

Optimism-ish alert! Nick Ashbourne of Bluebird Banter wonders if Edwin Encarnacion may yet have another gear to hit. Crazy.

In another BBB post, Nick looks at how Jose Reyes will not be cheated — he’s going down swinging.

Great stuff from Dirk Hayhurst, titled The Proletariat Is Right, regarding the class action lawsuit filed by former minor league players.

Batter’s Box takes a look at BA’s top 30 Jays prospects list.

Not Jays-related, but back to Drew at Getting Blanked, because he’s great, and a look at — a remembrance for, really — Stephen Strasburg.

Awesomeness from Dunedin, as always, can be found by way of the Flickr page that hosts all of John Lott’s excellent photos.

Lastly, Mop Up Duty looks into fan apathy this winter, which apparently they’re super into.

Comments (513)

  1. It feels like a really long time ago that Drabek was the center of any deal.

    • Drabek is an X factor this season. If they clean up his delivery and get him to repeat it, he could be a very good pitcher.

      His stuff is really good if he can get in to the zone, or atleast close.

      Only thing is, he’s pretty much on his last elbow, i don’t recall anyone having 3 Tj’s

  2. Any links to any phptos of the new and improved body of Brandon Morrow? Is he big like Clemens was? I always thought he had that type of body, glad to hear he has fille dit out. Cant hurt, I suppose.

  3. So Morrow wins the spring training Best Shape of his Life Award I guess.

  4. Good luck getting a bar to show the Canada game since it is the same time as the US game (if they even watch hockey in Bama).

  5. I’d still like to see your pitching depth piece Andrew.

    I’m so bummed out right now. To me it is optimistic to think that Happ/Hutch/Drabek/Stroman can adequately cover the 5th spot and the inevitable injury spot(s). But the 4th spot as well?

    Having said that, I’m just old-school enough to want to see “home grown” talent succeed. I’ll be rooting big time for Drabek and Hutch.

    • Sons,Read Davidi’s piece about Happ and the new arm slot.
      There’s a glimmer of optimism based on the SSS.
      Fuck I hate using the term SSS but it may be applicable here.

      • Why would you possibly hate using that term? Because you LIKE being swayed by numbers that don’t mean anything?

        • Because it gets overused to death, as a catchall to explain everything away.
          It has validity when used in the proper context but too many use it as an excuse rather than a rational explanation.

          BTW. Find the game or are you streaming?

  6. I’m in the US also. Game is on CNBC.

    Go Latvija (sorry)

  7. I think if the offense stays healthy we can get by on Hutch/Drabek/Happ and then Stroman later in the season.

    We might also see someone like Nolin or McGuire step up and be a passable #5 starter.

    If the lineup mashes like it can, the rotation becomes less of a sore spot.

  8. Additional link: http://grantland.com/features/mlb-offseason-power-rankings-the-30-dodgers-rays-cardinals/

    Spoiler alert – the Jays are supposed to fucking suck, which I would object to if I even had the slightest iota of faith in our pitching staff. I mean, if only there was a clear middle of the rotation guy who is guaranteed for 200 innings available.

    • our offense is good enough to overcome average pitching.

      last year we had atrocious starting pitching. we just need them to be middle of the pack

      • Dead spots in the lineup: 2B(!), C, LF…DH against lefties when Lind is left in, SS for the chunk of time Reyes will be out, and RF in the month of August when Jose’s wrist flames out.

        • Could also say Colby versus lefties and for his 15 game stretches when he completely loses his swing. Unless they can find someone for 2B who doesn’t suck and a viable platoon complement versus LHP, there offense is not as good as it can be.

      • Last year, the top 7 bats in the offense (excluding Goins and Navarro)
        missed a total of 322 games, an average of 46 games per player.

        In 2012, Reyes had his only healthy season in the last five.
        This helped drop the “games missed” total to 249,
        and an average of 35.5 games per player.

        This group figures to miss time. Take a look at the bench
        and the replacement depth in AAA. There is not much there.

        It is far from a slam dunk that the offense can produce enough
        to overcome the shortcomings of the starting pitching.

      • I don’t disagree with that at all. Obviously expecting fully healthy seasons from the Joses in particular might be a pipe dream but I agree that our offense will be much improved.

        I just have trouble envisioning that our pitching staff can be anything other than middling to bad, and I see a complete dumpster fire as being much more likely than a climb into vague competence. I hope I’m wrong, but if I saw Redmond pitching in May I also wouldn’t be surprised – and that scares me.

      • “our offense is good enough to overcome average pitching.”

        This is based on what exactly? The Jays middle-to bottom of the AL East offense for each of the past two seasons?

        • Lol Peter, you always have this stern fatherly tone when you challenge people. too bad you’re too lazy to look up the proper stats before you do.

          last year the jays scored 712 runs, more than the yankees and rays and less the red sox and orioles.

          They were ninth in the league overall, and 8th in the AL (they outscored every NL team minus the cards)

          This was all with JPA as a starting catcher, bona and izturiz getting a ton of ABs, Kawasaki and Davis all getting considerable playing time.

          So yes, barring injuries to Rasmus, Bautista, EE , Reyes and Lawrie, this is a top offensive team, even with holes at 2B/C.

          not sure why you needed to reference 2 seasons ago, thats completely irrelevant to this current roster. Its always been about preventing runs, not scoring them.

          • I mean to say AL and I have looked up the stats. If you remove park factors the Jays offense doesn’t look to good. They finished 9th in the AL in runs scored (that’s 9th out of 15 teams) thus my mid-to bottom classification. And just for the record 15th in MLB.

            On the bright side they did finish ahead of the Yankees.

            • Also, I referenced two seasons ago because everyone thought the Jays offense was great in 2012 as well, which just wasn’t true. The myth of the Jays offense is an ongoing issue with fans.

            • Park adjusted stats are great for players, so that other teams can better understand true performance levels.

              Im confused at your use of park adjusted stats, the team will continue to play 81 games at rogers center, 9 at fenway, 9 at yankee stadium etc. where they play is a constant, if it plays in to their hands that’s call home field advantage.

              The reality is that a healthy jays lineup is a top 5 AL offense. Easily.. you have yet to produce any stats to refute that.

              • lol
                how the fuck can you subtract park factor from a team who’s going to play 81 games there?

                • lol just in case they remove some more windows and the rogers center becomes a pitchers paradise i guess.

              • I’m from Missouri, I’ll believe they are a top 5 offense when I see it.

                As for Park factor it’s not a difficult formula, you just take the number of runs scored by each team in the AL and divide by their own park factor to make their runs scored at home equivelant. If you don’t do this, there will be a production bias for teams that play in hitters parks.

                • Peter you don’t get it, and thats okay.

                  I understand park factors well. but when talking about a team that will continue to play in the same park, there is no reason to use park adjusted numbers other then trying to sound smart and miserably failing.

                  The jays played in a hitters park last year, and they will do so again this year. There is no reason to adjust the numbers.

                  • We are comparing the Jays agains other offenses in the league and to do so you need to to put them on an equal playing field.

                    Otherwise how do you justify that the Jays are a top 5 offense? Are you saying they are a top 5 offense for teams that play in the Rogers centre?

                    • man I wish you could edit posts, this last one was embarrassing. No wonder I can’t get my point across, it should read:

                      “We are comparing the Jays against other offenses in the league and to do so you need to put them all on an equal playing field.

                      Otherwise how do you justify that the Jays are a top 5 offense? Are you saying they are a top 5 offense for teams that play their home games in the Rogers centre?

                    • you dont have to use park factor to compare, because no one else will play 81 games at rogers center

                    • We must be talking about two different things.

                    • Why do you have to put them on an equal playing field if they HAVE TO STILL PLAY 81 FUCKING GAMES AT ROGERS CENTER FOR FUCKS SAKES.

                      What does it matter how the jays will perform in a neutral park if they play 81 fucking games in a hitters park
                      fuck fuck fuckity fuck

  9. Man that Fangraphs article is depressing but truthful.

    • Yup

    • Funny to see them claim that Morrow is injury prone since Stoeten totally proved that anyone who thinks Brandon Morrow is injury prone is a moron, right?

      • newsflash, fangraphs isn’t always gospel. The writer also put Happ in the injury prone category, which is ludicrous.

        • Happ is sucking-prone. I’m not sure they had that right…I think they meant to say Happ will be out of the rotation after 15 mins because he’s bad.

  10. I read that Blair piece and I agree with it. Maybe down to the WBC, but our guys were woefully unprepared and played worse because of it.

  11. This season the first Jays player to try any of that Lo viste crap should be immediately benched. Donkey pointing only!

    • That killed me last year. Baseball is not the sport where you show off. The other team must have found it as irritating as I did. Boneface would do it every time he actually did something right. If your are Manny in his prime go ahead and be cocky he could back it up otherwise just play the game.

    • There was nothing hotter than a blonde chick from Whitby in a JPA jersey t-shirt doing the Low Viste for an Instagram pic.

      I’ll miss it.

  12. fail

  13. What happened to Chad jenkins? Although he’s not great he did a decent job in the 5th spot. Why is he not in the competition?

    • He can’t pitch very many innings so wears down the bullpen maybe? I thought he wasn’t terrible as well, but I’d rather someone with a higher ceiling at the 5 I think.

      • I think one reason I’d love to see the Jays sign Santana is because a Buffalo rotation of Hutch/Stroman/Drabek/Jenkins/Nolin looks pretty damn good, doesn’t it? I think a year in AAA would benefit a lot of those guys – I think 4 of them (all except Jenkins) have actually never pitched in AAA before (or at least not for longer than a couple weeks). No sense rushing the young, recovering and inexperienced just to save $50 million and a 2nd-round pick when you can easily afford it.

    • crappy with zero upside. the kid cannot miss bats at all, and for a sinker ball pitcher he is very middling when it comes to getting grounders.

  14. What makes the Blue Jays situation ever more depressing is to imagine their infield when Reyes has his yearly DL stint…. Then we will have two negative WAR guys out there…

  15. The problem with AA is he never sees value in anything. Alex “has his price” and won’t go above it. Look at the disturbing pattern…

    aroldis chapman FAIL
    yu darvish FAIL
    garza FAIL
    ubaldo FAIL
    napoli FAIL
    bartolo FAIL
    santana expected FAIL

    How is anything going to change with this GM? This is a team desperate for pitching and for 5 years he signs ZERO pitchers.

    • You’re a fucking idiot.
      Read a little before you spout forth your wisdom.

      • This is a team desperate for pitching and for 5 years he signs ZERO pitchers.

        This is an accurate statement is it not? I mean AA has proven what? He can acquire pitchers that don’t have NTC’s from bad teams? Not exactly something to start popping boners over. Beuhrle and Johnson wouldn’t have signed here as free agents, not in a million years.

        5 years on the job and most of all now sitting with a “supposed” contending team and not one decent FA signing… That’s pathetic.

        • Yeah, because free agents ALWAYS take the most money, right?

          They all just cant wait to come to Canada, right?

          You all make it seem so easy, like just write the cheque. But you will all be the first one to throw the GM under the bus when that overpaid Sp is struggling in July.

          There is no point in trying to please fans, because, y’know.,…that most certainly is not how to build a championship team.

          But go ahead, be a fucking moron all your life.

          • Change your name to apathy then because you clearly are not a real fan. We know teams for the most part don’t make moves to appease the fanbase, you look like a moron even raising that issue. The issue at hand, and please follow slowly with a dictionary or reading coach… is money! Rogers isn’t proving the Jays with the money they need to compete.

            There were 3 starters available, all are upgrades to the dreck the Jays have, 2 are signed already by teams you would consider lower on the totem pole and the 3rd, well we already know the Jays won’t sign him.

            No playoffs in over 20 years.
            No significant free agents in close to 10 years.

            You sir are the epitome of apathetic.

            • Riiiiight. Because the team that spends the most money, wins?

              Idiot. Just fucking dumb.

              Did the high payroll Dodgers win last year? Nope. Yankees? Nope.

              Money does not equal championships, dipshit.

              • Dodgers made the playoffs last year.. up till last year the Yanks had made it for what 10 years?

                Sorry bud but there’s a direct correlation between spending and making the playoffs. I’m not talking about winning a Word Series… lets just start with a place this fucking team hasn’t been to since before DVD’s existed.

        • Idiot #1 meet Idiot #2.
          Think about what the Jays were trying to do, 2,3 4 years ago.
          AA went to 25 Million for Chapman and Chapman went for 30 mil.AA says he regrets not getting him but in hindsight how many games has Chapman started?
          If Darvish was a fail,then 28 other teams failed also
          Not getting Napoli and Colon are fails? Really?
          And UJ, despite what Stoeten or anybody else says, was far from a lock to be a solid part of the rotation.
          Last year everybody was bragging about the Jays rotation.
          Dickey,Buehrle,Johnson,Morrow and Romero looked great on paper.
          Didn’t work out but everybody is a expert in hindsight.

          • Then you’re idiot #3 I guess?

            The Darvish fail was AA acting like a loser in the media, not properly getting his message across. Leaving fans hanging to the point where they actually thought there was a chance the Jays would land Darvish…. but, not to our surprise AA low balled and fans got pissed.

            • @ Birdie

              So your point is that AA failed becuase he didn’t announce everything in the media?
              He should have said they were out,just to keep you happy?
              Okay then, he shoulda manged the PR shit storm better.
              Huge fail.For fuck’s sakes, sorry your feelings were hurt.

              • If I lend you 5 bucks would you please buy a clue.

                The Darvish situation was a complete disaster, everyone knows it except apologists like you.

          • “romero looked good on paper”

            ha ha ha who’s the idiot here?

            • The previous years opening day pitcher who had surgery to repair what supposedly ailed him and was regulated to the #5 because the others were that much better.
              How soon everybody forgets.
              So that’s the point you picked, to disagree with my comment?
              Try harder.

        • Of course HJ Birdie would agree with this nonsense. Pay attention folks, if you agree with Birdie, you’re doing it wrong.

          • So sorry I can’t be one of your apologists on here trying to convince themselves and their own delusional state of mind that everything’s going to be alright with the Jays.

            You’re just sour that I called this ahead of time. Now reports Jays aren’t in on Santana… wow, shocker there too.

            Pitching staff is shitty Andrew… There’s no way around it.

    • where does napoli come from? he was hardly a fit here last season, unless your complaining about EE or Lind

      • @ Kevin

        Who the fuck knows.
        According to mad genius,AA failed on that too.

      • AA traded for him then immediately trade him again for piece of shit franscesco because he didn’t want to pay napoli’s measly 6 mil. They guy hit 30 hr and 1.000 ops that year. All to save a loonie.

        • @mad genius

          You truly are #1.
          Do some fucking research.That is NOT why Napoli was not kept by AA. and traded for Coco.
          I don’t know why we need to go down this road again for the hundredth time.It’s been well explained here many ,many times.

          • You’ve got the wrong Francisco. Napoli was traded for FrankyFrank not Coco. Although that was a really shitty trade by AA. Napoli fit the team like a glove and was worth way more then a comp pick and 1 seasons worth of FrankyFrank… AA did overvalue right-handed relievers so.

            • If Napoli was the player he was with Boston back when he was playing for the Angels, he wouldn’t of been a throw in for LeVern. He was mediocre at best.
              The Jays were set with JPA taking the full time catching spot and not many people disagreed with that.

              If you’re going to crap on AA for not seeing into the future than you’re all morons.

              • He wasn’t mediocre at best. I was pleased when we got him because he was one of the things we needed at the time… a RH power bat that could fill in at 1B & DH and give us some games at C. I know why AA traded him (for the probable comp pick francisco would provide) but I did want Napoli and I think Napoli could have provided value in trade later.

                … who did we get with the comp pick from frankyfrank? I don’t remember which one it was anymore.

            • No, AA favored comp picks. Which was during the time when he was gaming the system for picks to the nines.

              • Wow, this Disqus comment randomly-generated placement thing is really a pain in the ass. How is this still a thing?

              • Thx TOI and Sausage beat me to it.
                Sorry about the Coco thing.
                My bad.
                Brain fart on my part.
                Hey , that rhymes.Cool.

                • People have some nerve shitting on AA for moving Napoli when he was shell of what he is today. Nobody saw the type of player he turned out to be. (even the armchair GMs out there!)

                  Besides, even if AA knew the type of player he was going to become but had to flip him in order to get rid of Wells contract, he would do it again without question.

                  • He didn’t have to flip him (Napoli) to get rid of the Wells contract. C’mon man… trading Napoli was a horrible trade in retrospect and IMO was suspect at best at the time.

  16. “the Orioles have ruined the Jays chances at Ervin Santana by setting the bar too high”? And where exactly was the bar for the Blue Jays? Based on what they’ve done (i.e., virtually nothing), they would want Santana to pay them.

  17. The only two cents I can offer on Santana is this – $50 million over 4 years isn’t ridiculous by any means. There are closers out there getting more than that. If Baltimore really did screw over Toronto by going to $50 million, because now that makes Santana too expensive, then Rogers needs to re-evaluate how they’re approaching payroll.

    If the Jays reached the playoffs last year, and felt they were 1 starter short of a WS run, would they hesitate to sign Jimenez or Santana, even if it meant giving up a non-protected pick? Probably not. So, if Santana now can help you reach the post-season, isn’t he worth the 49th overall pick? Isn’t he worth mid-range money? I can’t understand why Rogers/the front office would take that position. Seems incredibly stupid. If anyone can afford to make a mistake payroll-wise, it’s Toronto.

    • The problem is the Jays need more than 1 SP to have even a 1% chance of making the playoffs…

    • Ervin has never been higher than a 5.0 WAR and that was in 2008. Now I don’t even pretend to know what goes into calculating this but I will use it as a benchmark.

      His average WAR from the past 3 years is -0.4

      I don’t see how this man could bring the Jays to the playoffs or even improve their team. Yes, i said it. I don’t think Ervin will be significant of an upgrade over the internal candidates to even improve the team.

      • You’ve nicely skewed his avg WAR by using his 1 bad year. He’s had 3 WAR 3/4 years which is damn good and is going to give you 200ip. He’s been a 15 game winner 3 times. How many jays can say that?

        • I actually took you seriously till you mentioned wins and a pitcher’s value in the same sentence.

          • The problem was that you took him seriously before that.

            You don’t get to just eliminate a pitcher’s bad seasons and pretend they didn’t happen. They did, and they represent a very real, significant portion of what he may contribute. Santana was the worst regular starting pitcher in the majors in 2012. You can’t just pretend it didn’t happen because his other numbers look prettier.

            If that’s the logic we’re going to go with, then Ricky Romero has had at least 2.5 fWAR three times in the last five years. Why bother with Santana?

    • there are closers getting more than $50mill?

  18. I can barely bring myself to type this but Rogers needs to fuck off and sell this team to MLSE, at least they might attempt to build a winning team.

    • Because that will make the jays sign the big names right?

      Who have the Leafs/Raptors signed to make you believe MLSE could throw money at MLB players? (And don’t say Clarkson)

      • Wake up and look at who TFC signed.
        They’ll never recapture the losses from those contracts but guess what…. and be ready cause it’s a shocker… they did it for the FANS! They realized they’ve been corn holing their fan base for a long time and it was time to give back… sound familiar?

        Hockey is a salary cap sport, most high profile players are locked up max dollars/term so you will rarely see a great one in free agency. Clarkson they needed and they paid to get him.

        Raptors are a whole other story.

        • I was going to mention TFC but didn’t because 1) I don’t watch soccer and 2) I don’t understand the business enough to argue it.

          However if you think ANY ownership is going out and making signings solely “for the FANS” then you are dead wrong. Yes it is the goal of a team to put butts in the seats and give them a team to watch but they also expect to make money. No ownership is going to sign a player just because the fans want them to, there are MANY other factors.

          I won’t go on any further because I now realize that you may in fact be a troll just looking to get a rise out of people. And if that is the case, then you sir have succeeded.

          • TFC didn’t sign Dafoe and the others because the fans wanted that, the fans had no clue it was coming. My point, which is 10000% correct, is that TFC gave back to the fans in doing this. Obviously it’s smart business to do so since TFC had huge fan interest and in recent years has dwindled.

    • troll. troll. troll.

      • How am I a troll?

        • I’m not sure if you’re a troll, if that helps. You might just be genuinely this clueless. You’ve been told enough that your opinions are ridiculous nonsense to have figured it out by now, though, so I tend to lean towards trolling.

  19. I’m late to the game on this one, but the Daily Duce is an absolute must-read! No more endless searching for daily Blue Jays news to read at lunch. I know it’s your job and all, but thanks for compiling this!

  20. When is Diaz going to sign? Can I get irrationally optimistic about him until he signs somewhere else?

    • I believe these are the standard fan reactions:

      Scenario A)
      1) Start with irrational optimism and demand the Jays sign him.
      2) When he signs with the Jays, become even more optimistic about how he will save the franchise.
      3a) If he lives up to your ridiculous expectations, make sure everyone knows you always wanted him.
      3b) If he fails to live up to your ridiculous expectations, demand the Jays GM gets fired.

      Scenario B)
      1) Start with irrational optimism and demand the Jays sign him
      2) When he signs somewhere else, get pissed off and become even more optimistic about how he could have saved the franchise.
      3a) If he lives up to your ridiculous expectations, demand the Jays GM gets fired.
      3b) If he fails to live up to your ridiculous expectations, forget that he exists and that you ever cared about him.

      • this is the most correct and rational breakdown of every offseason i’ve ever seen.
        ever notice the crying about not getting fielder has stopped?
        or hamilton?
        or the outrage for trading our opening day starter?

        people remember what they want to remember.
        the same handful of losers are gonna piss and moan whether they watch jays games or whether they watch cricket

        • 1. Fielder would still have looked pretty good as a Blue Jay. And please remember our starting 1B was still Adam Lind and Eddy was coming off of the whole E5 fiasco of a season and had been DFA’d.
          2. I don’t really remember people pissing their pants over not signing Hamilton, and any pants pissing was quickly quashed when The Trade happened.
          3. I’m pretty sure everyone’s maple boners were too erect to complain about the Marcum trade.

          The most important thing to remember is that people get pissed off about a team not making a move when they (a) need to improve and (b) don’t wind up making a separate move to fill that deficiency. So people are pissed off about not getting Ubaldo, but if we managed to trade for Price they’d probably forget all about it. That’s not them being fickle bitches, it’s a perfectly reasonable response to a team foregoing a move in order to make a better move.

          So you can probably get off your high horse of fandom any time now.

          • to summarize my points – you’re being whiny douche bags.
            just shut up and watch the games.
            last year everyone knew we’d be awesome, and we weren’t.
            this year everyone knows we wont… even though it’s the same team,

            • Yep. Obviously everyone should just be happy that the team deigns to play 162 games a year. If they win, that’s great, if they lose that’s too bad but whatever you do don’t ever have an opinion on whether the team should improve itself or not because you will fail the David test of being a good fan.

  21. I hate the idea of Stroman making the team out of camp. Not because I hate Stroman, quite the opposite, but because the Jays don’t exactly have a history of successful transitions from prospect to major leaguer. Patience is a virtue and I hope the jays have the same outlook. This kid could be special but he’s still that, a kid. Obviously has a lot of confidence and imagine what a demotion could do to that confidence.

    • Fully agree. He has to be quite a bit better in my mind than the alternatives to break with the team. Not only for the confidence issue but the money and future value perspective. Ideally bring him up in September if the team is in contention and he is the best option like Wacha in St Louis last year, Price in TB before that etc etc or keep him in the minors as long as possible while he continues to get better. If he lives up to the hype and is a solid 2-3 starter it sure would be nice to get that production for 3 years paying league minimum salary. Really dont like the Jays bringing guys up to struggle at below average to average production when they have higher potential (Alvarez, Hutchinson, Drabek)

  22. Worst. Offseason. Ever.

    • Worse than when they signed AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan?

      • The offseason the Jays signed Burnett, Ryan and got Glaus was awesome, even with the Ryan contract being terrible. They were a very good team from 06 to 08.

        • Don’t forget they got Bengie Molina cheap just before the season started. That was an exciting offseason. Probably the best until last year.

      • If you are going to say that then you should say “worse than last offseason?”. At least following those signings in 2007 the Jays added to that team with Thomas even though he maybe wasn’t the greatest signing – they went for it. That team also came very close to the playoffs when the Yanks and Sox were absolute powerhouses. Was a lot better to watch as a fan than the decade of mediocrity before and years since (although as Im sure you will point out the Ryan signing hamstrung the team in the years after).

  23. In the comments of that Fangraphs article, Petriello says he didn’t mention an Ackley for Gose trade because he didn’t think the Jays would be considering that. Really? I would take Ackley over Gose in a second. Leaves us mighty thin in OF, but there’s a season to solve the CF problem and I have more faith in Ackley becoming a legit major-leaguer than Gose at this point. Why would the Jays not consider this? And would Seattle even consider it?

    • I don’t think it really makes the Jays much thinner in the outfield since Ackley can play there as well. If they were desperate they could move Ackley there to fill in and go back to Goins/Izturis/Kawasaki at 2B.

      I can’t see Seattle doing that either, but they don’t exactly have the best track record of making the most well thought out moves.

      • That’s a brutal 2B man… To see Edwin, Jose’s and Colby out there then those shit turds is alarming. It’s pretty much like having a sweet new Benz with only 3 tires.

        • That was the point at all. The point was that adding Ackley (as a second baseman) doesn’t necessarily reduce the outfield depth because he can play there as well.

          • *wasn’t

            • The bloom has come off the Ackley rose much more than Gose. But hell, if that means there’s another piece or two coming back, I wouldn’t argue. Get em to throw in Montero for kicks.

              • Ackley fills a need more than Gose does, though, and he’s had success at the major league level.

    • Ackley has been in the league a while and is in arbitration? Need to consider that Gose brings more years of control.

  24. 3/$39 for Santana, 4th year club option at $13mill, $3mill buyout.

    Guaranteed $42mill is as far as I’d go. He’s older and not as good as Ubaldo.

    • signing santana really doesn’t salvage the offseason.

      if it came in tandem with some other moves, then great.

      if we are just going to sign santana and call it a day, its not good enough

      • what they currently have might – might – be good enough. they’re at the point on the win curve when even a small upgrade could loom large. given the choice of just Santana or nothing, I take Santana every time.

  25. Not sure whats worse with Rogers owning the team 1) the bottom line matters more than wins or 2) propaganda and bs reporting from Rogers broadcasting arms.

    How much crap are we going to hear about Happ’s new arm angle, the “up and coming” young pitching depth etc. lets call the truth…young, unproven, little track record with some physical promise = cheap salary. and no, they don’t have the same track record as Tampa in drafting and developing young talent so its hard to hang your hat on that hope.

    frustrating team to be a fan of

    • Every newspaper reports fluff pieces like that every spring training. I don’t like Rogers, but I don’t think their employees are biased to the Jays (see most Fan hosts).

  26. Looks like a Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle, Happ, McGowan rotation for Opening Day.

  27. Well it’s nice to see that Janssens proposal went better than the time Trevor proposed to Hillary

  28. Mcgowan as our fifth stater would be a joke of a rotation

    • Well you would McGowen will only crack the rotation if he is doing well in ST and otherwise be in the pen and if he is doing well (dont think this is likely) he is likely better than the other options. So no worse than fringe pitcher x in the fifth spot

  29. Never seen an employee like Mcgowan underachieve every year and still come back and get compensated year after year. only in baseball.

    • Ever seen an employee have five major surgeries and still be able to lift a baseball let alone throw a baseball at 90+ mph?

      Keep in mind we’re paying him little over 1M per season also.

      • So basically your saying ” Lets compensate an employee on the Toronto Blue Jays Organization because he has successfully completed surgery from self imposed injuries all these year even though he has nver performed to his potential for a million dollars ” your an idiot , does your employer pat you on the back every time you bag groceries wrong and give you raise at the end of the year ? I believe the answer is No.

  30. Good thing I didn’t get Jimenez on the back of my jersey. I guess I could always keep it for when AJ comes up

  31. Chein-Ming Wang anyone?

  32. Hilarious when you think about this concept of AA telling us that he has informed the free agent pitchers to make sure they contact him before they sign another offer..to see if he will beat it.

    “So…this is Ubaldo’s agent…we are about to sign with Baltimore for 4/50 million….we give you the option of matching or beating this”

    AA “Well, how does 3 years and 9 million sound?”


  33. I’m holding out a shred of hope the Jays don’t ACTUALLY go into the 2014 season with the rotation as is. Maybe a Santana signing, or a surprise trade, or both. It just wouldn’t make sense.

    I mean the lineup is good, possibly very good. The bullpen is great. Lots of guys in their primes. Could the rotation pan out? Sure. But hard to compare it to the other AL East teams and feel optimistic about it. Really need at minimum another guy who can be a 2/3. Ideally two of them.

    I mean, after the 2012 offseason and dealing so many prospects to ‘go for it’, how could you not address the rotation this offseason? Particularly when Ubaldo and Santana could be had for reasonable deals. How can you possibly justify standing pat and praying some young guys bail you out?

    • Maybe AA feels like our rotation could turn a la Cardinals, where young pitching can pick up the mantle.

    • Ive thought it all along this offseason that C, 2B and bench were more important than SP. Nothing done there other than replacing JPA with Navarro/Kratz who bring their own risks. Starting to wonder if the proclamations of adding SP at the start of the offseason was just a distraction to curb backlash against not going after Cano and McCann while they were available and having fans focus on SP whic hthey knew would be available into ST so limiting the negative backlash in terms of not improving team to a small time before the season starts. Was very suspicious the standing pat message coming out so shortly after we need SP message as well as the we tried to get Kinsler right before State Of Franchise.

  34. Hmm

  35. 6 years – $106M for Homer effing Bailey?!?


  36. Mass Suicide Sign-Up Sheet:

  37. What’s this team’s direction now? AA’s first few years were building the farm, acquiring assets and locking up the strong internal guys. Last season with the Red Sox coming off a last place finish, the Rays missing the playoffs, the Orioles coming off one of the luckiest seasons ever (1 run games) and the Yankees looking like an AAA team, AA altered course and attacked with the Miami and New York trades. It didn’t work out, obviously.

    Now what though? There’s no word that they’re looking to trade anyone, so they’re not going to try and re-stock the high minors and build depth that way. They’ve balked at the price of trading for established pitching (rightfully for a guy like Shark in Chicago who’s proven little) There’s no real attempt to sign anyone to improve spots either due to Rogers refusing to spend more or AA and his twisted view of value and refusal to play ball on anyone’s terms but his own. Someone mentioned that you don’t just go out doing moves and signing guys to make fans happy; obviously true, but at the same time you’re not selling me a product that hasn’t been competitive with similar products in 20 years without improving it somehow.

    So I ask…what direction are the Jays going in? Building? Re-building? To me it seems like they’re right back where they were through the Riccardi years and Gord Ashe before them: Not bad, but not nearly good enough…unless 300 things break perfectly. Ain’t happening, again.

    • IMHO.
      AA Is determining what he has exactly.
      This team hasn’t changed much from the beginning of last year,except for JJ,JPA,Boni and Oliver are gone.
      No great losses yet the 2013 was hailed by most experts as WS favorites.
      They finished in last place.
      Was it because of injuries or was talent overrated?
      Melky’s a FA at the end of the season.He was the 2012 NL batting champ who stunk last year because he could barely walk.Maybe it had to do with the tumor?
      Will he rebound or will he not?
      You can see the question marks with just about every player .
      Only a total of 27 million is committed for the 2015 season.
      Who stays and who goes?

      • who knows
        According to mccown on the fan 590, 2014 flames out, this current version of the team will not be given a third “kick at the can”

        • Hope McCown is right – it would not be good to lose three straight years and not be able to kick off a serious rebuild either. If they are out at deadline trade everyone then. But hope they are in it and they win this year

      • 2013 was a pretty good sample to determine what he has. If he waits to see how the season plays out to get more information and figures he will add via trade mid season to contend it will bankrupt the farm. The Jays clearly have decided to not put more money into the current roster and are riding it out. If they do well they will either bankrupt the farm to make a serious push (please no) or ride it out and see if current roster can win while making minimal additions. If they do not do well they will either start the rebuild trading away all the assets or ride it out happy with some stars on a losing team losing their trade value (please no)

      • With year one of a three year window burned I don’t think he has the luxery to burn another year “determining what he has”.

    • Anthopolous and Beeston keep stressing that “this team was not built for just one season, we can win for the next 5 (4 now) seasons”.

      I think its clear that our farm system is not the focus as you mentioned so I think win-now mentally is still alive in the organization. With that being said, they are not in the position to a) blow up the farm system even further via trade to improve the team. or b) sign high-profile free agents.

      So where does that leave the Jays? In a “wait and see” position where this season could help them decide whether to keep trying to re-tool or blow up and rebuild.

  38. I simply don’t have the energy to shake my pitchfork.

    Given the lack of anything, the Jays are clearly going to be awesome this year.

  39. Buster Olney says no FA signing for Jays.
    JA Happ for MVP….

  40. ESPN is now saying the Jays are unlikely to sign Santana. If this is true, it’s a good thing.


  41. Honestly I don’t think it matters what we do or don’t do. The WS is not won in the off-season as we all found out last year. I’m as restless and unhappy as everyone else, but ultimately it will come down to health, luck and the odd break-out. Just let’s remember, we once had the best pitcher in mlb as our ace. Did we get to the play-offs? Hell, no.

  42. “We will not sign our 1st round draft picks…who are pitchers & we will not sign any free agent starters unless they absolutely fall into our laps. We have great depth”.

  43. A lot of these guys will get locked up, but the list of SP free agents for next year is… good?

    Starting Pitchers

    Brett Anderson (27) – $12MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
    Josh Beckett (35)
    Chad Billingsley (30) – $14MM club option with a $3MM buyout
    Joe Blanton (34) – $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    A.J. Burnett (38) – mutual option
    Bruce Chen (38) – $5.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
    Wei-Yin Chen (29) – $4.75MM club option with a $372K buyout
    Kevin Correia (34)
    Johnny Cueto (29) – $10MM club option with an $800K buyout
    Jorge De La Rosa (34)
    Ryan Dempster (38)
    Gavin Floyd (32)
    Yovani Gallardo (29) – $13MM club option with a $600K buyout
    Jason Hammel (32)
    J.A. Happ (32) – $6.7MM club option
    Aaron Harang (37)
    Dan Haren (34) – $10MM player option if 180 innings reached in 2014
    Roberto Hernandez (34)
    Luke Hochevar (31)
    Hisashi Iwakuma (34) – $7MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Josh Johnson (31)
    Kyle Kendrick (30)
    Jon Lester (31)
    Colby Lewis (35)
    Paul Maholm (33)
    Justin Masterson (30)
    Brandon McCarthy (31)
    Brandon Morrow (30) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Jeff Niemann (32)
    Ross Ohlendorf (32)
    Felipe Paulino (31) – $4MM club option with a $250K buyout
    Jake Peavy (34)
    Wandy Rodriguez (36)
    Max Scherzer (30)
    James Shields (33)
    Carlos Villanueva (31)
    Ryan Vogelsong (37)
    Edinson Volquez (30)
    Jerome Williams (33)

    source: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015-mlb-free-agents.html

    • Who cares what the list is? You honestly think the Jays are going to be players next offseason? Maybe they will but seems unlikely.

      If they win then the SP came through this year and no need to upgrade – maybe they go for an ace I suppose. If they lose they are not going to pump money into the team considering they didn’t this year. Maybe if they just miss out they spend some cash to try to make it to the playoffs in 2015. They are going to have the same payroll next year as this year even with Jansenn and Cabrera out.

  44. starting rotation wins 2013

    tampa 56
    boston 56
    nyy 49 + tanaka – hughes = 50+
    balt 46 + ubaldo = 50+

    toronto 37 – JJ + morrow 10 wins only gets you 45

    somebody has to have a big season to get us even close to competing.

    • Good thing that 2013 WINS mean absolutely dick all when predicting 2014, eh?

    • This is where WAR is horseshit, its great to look at large sample size (multiple years), and crap at looking one year to another.

      • Well for starters, WAR is pretty good at judging what happened over a single season sample.

        More to the point, he’s talking about wins. Not WAR. Pitcher wins. He’s saying the Jays starters aren’t good enough because they didn’t get enough wins in 2013. That’s what makes it stupid.

        • yeah winning games is stupid.

          • no, but placing large amounts of value into what a pitcher is worth based of on pitcher wins is dumb

          • Pitcher A won 16 games. Pitcher B won 18 games. Who do you want on your team?

            • Need more information

              • Well of course you do, because the wins tell you nothing about what the pitcher actually accomplished.

            • The one with the better FIP.

              • He isnt presenting the best statistics for evaluation but it is not meaningless. The Jays SP were shit, they hardly got any wins. If the offence was horrible then say that is why it doesnt mean anything that they got so few wins (although it would still mean something). That isnt the case – the case here (beyond the valid point that 2013 isnt necessarily predictive of 2014 performance) is that you are just being a dick.

          • I get the feeling that a lot of you don’t understand when pitcher wins are relevant and when they aren’t.

            If a team has few starting pitcher wins over the course of the season, this is actually a relevant statistic, it generally means one of the following:
            a) the team is terrible at scoring runs
            b) starting pitchers aren’t going deep into games
            c) starting pitchers are giving up a lot of runs

            None of these options are very good.

        • Wins is never a good reason to condemn a pitcher, too many other factors at play. Wins are a great reason to condemn a GM. This team won 74 games and AA’s response seems to be fuck it lets try this again?? Dont trust a guy who sees no value in UJ at 12 million per but plenty of value in a just convicted PED user at 8 million a year.

          • Really starting to think there just isnt any money there because the team has been losing and revenues cant justify a payroll increase. What upsets me is the bs pr we have been fed – just tell it like it is

          • im also wondering now why they didnt just take the option on JJ now. I was convinced it was because they were going to add another starter. Not wait until a deal at the right price “falls into thier lap”. Morrow could give you 200IP and Happ might get you 10 wins, but to me those are big ifs, a proven MLB 2/3 starter is required. Hope they prove me wrong though. Go Jays!

    • You should do that for the 2012 year to show what was going to happen in 2013.

      How did it work out for you.

    • The point that people don’t seem to get is that to win 90 games the jays have to get a large win total from their starters which means it has to come from somewhere. Which means that all of morrow, happ and mcgowan or stroman have to pitch well. What are the chances that all 3 pitch well? Which is why santana would have helped then you only need 2 of them to pitch well.

      AA is a fool is he actually thinks this is a contending rotation.

      • I’ll take Chris sale or yu darvish, who both won a handful of games last year.

      • Why do all the off those HAVE to pitch well? I’d love some logical reasoning behind this one? Many teams have a few very good pitchers and a couple serviceable and do just fine.
        PlUS, I’m not certain that if one of your three chosen pitchers struggle, there won’t be the other pitchers waiting for an opportunity. Isn’t this what we have been talking about all off-season? That fact that we finally have some starting pitching depth?

    • @mad genius – Likely the worst thing I have read on the internet all day.

  45. Stoeten, I think you may be doing a disservice to people on here. Surely you understand the business aspect of the game better than you have let on this off-season. You keep running out this narrative that the Jays should sign Santana, because he is the best available pitcher. I think one of the issues here, and why I will side with AA on this topic, is that there needs to be value for money.

    It appears to sign Santana you are looking at roughly what Ubaldo got, which is a pretty significant amount of money for what value can be expected. To say that its “just money” that is needed to sign this guy is a pretty short sighted approach. Yes it is just money, from a baseball capital viewpoint… but in reality the Blue Jays are a business. AA is NOT going to get an unlimited payroll this year or for the next 4 years, and so what he does now, handcuffs him from doing what is needed next year.

    We all love the “Flags Fly Forever” idea, but if you don’t win the pennant, you are a loser, and get fired.

    I think this discussion would be more straight forward if it were a Verlander/Kershaw type of guy that we were discusssing, as they are elite guys. Santana/Ubaldo are not elite pitchers and have major question marks. We can’t just say that we HAVE to sign them, there is a real world aspect to this. If they wanted a 1 year deal, I would be much more on-board that they should sign either no matter what, but were talking 4 years of impact here.

    • Except that you are already on the hook for 40 mil for buerhle for just 2 years when you could get santana for 4 years for 20% more. Which is better value for money?

      • So… because the Jays are paying way too much for one guy, we should pay too much for another?

  46. Wow after what Homer Bailey just received, Blue Jays have to wake up and realize Santana at a little over 50 million for four years isn’t a bad contract. Jays apparently are not adding SP not even pretending anymore…….How the AL worst pitching staff where jA HAPP was your fifth and is now your Fourth in the starting rotation heading into 2014 is a better staff on paper than the disaster of 2013 starting rotation I have no idea.

    Last place in AL East book it……..still excited to watch some baseball at the Skydome though….lol

    • We actually gave up assets for the privilege of paying Buehrle so f’ing much more money than Santana will take to get.

      Unreal to me that we are going to let this protected pick go to waste. If Santana does remotely well, with a 4/50 contract, we could flip him in the offseason for a good haul.

      • Don’t worry. If nothing is done to correct for the glaring weaknesses in the lineup (everyone has known all along what they are) we’re quite likely to have another protected pick next year too.

    • Maybe us fans need to wake up and realize they aren’t going to pump more money into payroll while the team is losing and never intended to all off season. The payroll is already up more than 20M from last year due to raises and was up 30M last year from the year before. The revenue gains from last year weren’t going to be sustained by signing Jiminez or Santana. Maybe they could have been with a bigger splash / upgrade to the team like Cano / McCann but those 2 were expensive and presented a big gamble. The team was likely treading water financially last year even with revenue gains. So they have to stand pat and hope this roster wins. And dont blame Rogers the payroll is in the top third of the league and they won 74 games last year – it is squarely on the front office.

      • And if you actually think the Jays front office doesn’t understand the progression of the market then you are kidding yourself.

  47. A couple of thoughts, its been a frustrating offseason
    what’s the direction of this team and front office, it was all fine when AA did take over the tire fire that jp riccardi left behind, trading the wells contract, improving the farm system et al. When last winter ‘s trades occured, I did approve of them , as they were clearly in a win now mode. Although 2013 went down in flames, and a good portion of that was due to bad luck and just an unlucky amount of injuries, improvements needed to be made this offseason. As it looks right now, they haven’t done anything save for a payroll swap move of the exact same salaries for 2014 of JPA for Navarro. If they just doubled down on 2012′s trades with more moves this offseason, it would be fine. The thing I don’t get is that what is AA waiting for? A good trade to fall in his lap? I don’t have high hopes for this team going into 2014, I hope the team and AA prove me wrong, but I’m skeptical to say the least.

  48. if you took a 3 year avg of wins for each starter to project 2013 this is what you got

    dickey 13 actual 14
    JJ 7.3 actual 2
    buerhle 13 actual 12
    morrow 10 actual 2
    happ 6.3 actual 5

    that’s 49.6

    that’s still puts you last in the division. only dickey outperform his prediction by only 1 win.

    • how many wins did King Felix have when he won his cy young?
      by your math with five king felix’s, we would just be ok.

      • Ok, now you’re just trolling. Discussing win totals is completely ridiculous and I think everyone has already told you that.

  49. September 29th:

    Anthopoulos quoted saying, “I think everything is going to be geared towards, ‘How can we be better in the rotation?’ We’ll start at the rotation and work our way down.”

    February 19th:

    Only noteworthy news on the rotation is losing Josh Johnson.

    Just fucking terrible. The market is changing and Anthopoulos is standing still.

    • Garbage.

      You have zero idea if it’s Anthopoulos or what it is. Certainly not the first person I’d look to blame here.

  50. in other news, ill be in section 227A in yankee stadium on June 19 to hopefully watch Tanaka vs. JA Happ lol

  51. exactly, the only reason why I’m for the Santana signing is AA last year moved a chit ton of prospects and yes they’re prospects but prospects people wanted to see but with EE and Joey Bats the Jays went all in last offseason and that was great…..but if your all in and yes I realize Josh Johnson didn’t work out here but if you were all in last year why aren’t you all in this year….Payroll is high, I don’t blame ownership at all…All I don’t understand is why are you not trying to win this year…It didn’t work out last year but with the supposed three year window to compete Beeston’s words why did we only try the one year(2013) and not this year cause Happ as your fourth trying to count on propsects who have ever pitched in triple A and one who hasn’t even pitched double AA and Goins as your everyday second basemen is not even competing in 2014 on paper…There’s no realistic way on paper that this team is even remotely in contention…A chit ton of things have to break right and some players would have to play out of their mind to make up for what I believe will be a disaster of a rotation….I’m not optimistic as many are about Drabek, Morrow and Hutchy..

    • Get a fucking grip. They’re not not trying. They can be a very good team.

      • The Astros could be a good team too……I’ll make a bet with you Andrew; Jays finish last in the AL East and third last in AL.

  52. Stark at ESPN is reporting that the Jays are unlikely to sign Santana. So depressing…hello 78 wins.

  53. AA to meet with the media at 8:30am tomorrow. Get ready for the Spin Doctor Assassin to do what he does best..spin. We’ll hear about how much he liked this guy but value didnt line up. Or that he loved that guy but for 3 years not 4. I cant wait to hear about Morrow being in the best shape they have ever seen him and how they are confident he will pitch 180+ innnings this year. I cant wait to hear how confident they are in a bunch of young pitchers coming off Tommy John surgery could be the answer. Im sure there will even be a somewhat positive spin on Romero’s ability to contribute, though on that one I cant fathom what that could be. The only thing you can god damn guarantee you wont hear outta AA tomorrow is the TRUTH.

    • i cant wait. if they dont play .500 this year will it be the end?
      Can we trade our entire team for a Billy Beane/John Maddon combo and start over?

  54. We also wont hear about why he traded a bunch of solid prospects to try and compete for one fucking year.

  55. Fuck it. Does anyone here honestly know what will happen this season?

    I totally get being upset, but if they’re competitive and either Jimenez or Santana are having shit years, will anyone go back on what they’re saying now?

    Maybe the Jays will have a horseshoe up their ass like a few teams did last year, and they’ll be fine.

  56. Anyone, y’know, hear Demarlo Hale on PTS tonight? Sounded like he was glad there’s no WBC this year.

  57. And shit. Cardinals likely to offer Cuban SS Diaz a contract in the next 24 hours. Cubs thought to be close to signing him earlier today.

    • Maybe that’s what AA has to announce tomorrow at 8:30.

      Tom W, grab the rum!

      • Yeah I can’t figure out why AA would be making the point to meet the media like this. I guess he’s probably had so many requests of late re: Ubaldo, Santana and general inability to add a piece he wants to clear the air or something. I want to hear what he has to say for sure, but unless he has something to announce it’ll probably be more of the same frustrating mantra. Does anyone remember if he had a pre-spring training media presser last year?

        • He has to say something to the pissed off fan base. His entire off season has been adding two backup catchers, when his stated priority was starting pitching.

      • Blessed be the rum on a home made dingy, quarry in tow and Havana at our backs.

  58. So, this Jayson Stark article makes me feel less terrible about everything (except his description of “slick rookie Ryan Goins”)


  59. The Jays in 13.
    You couldn’t script the shit that befell them. If it had been any other team I would have found it sad comedy.

    Lawrie and Dickey get hurt in the WBC.

    Romero realizes that we are weak at second base so he decides to not let the opposing batters put the ball in play.Tturns out walks and homers don’t help though.

    JJ says fuck my resume to this point, I’m gonna have a horrible outlier of a season.

    Bonifacio shows us that he is suddenly a super utility guy that can’t hit or field at 3 different positions.

    Happ proves he’s no good at pepper.

    Lind sucks when we need him and then absolutely tears the cover off it when we are eliminated.

    Melky didn’t read the fine print on his own website and grows a bicep on his spine.

    Strike3bia puts up one of the worst seasons in the history of baseball. Deluded, he somehow thinks it wasn’t that bad, dingers. (Funny enough, I didn’t care too much about the offense, what I found truly revolting was his game calling and complete inability to field his position)

    Reyes bends but won’t break. Turns out if he had broken he would have been back 2 months sooner.

    Morrow snaps our last remaining nerves by entrapping his.

    And a whole bunch of other shit that I can’t remember or have blocked out.

    The truth is, and not trying to make excuses here, the Jays had horrific luck.
    We eliminate 3 absolute zeros – JJ/JPA/Romero and this team has already gotten better.
    If everything shakes right this season then I think we have more then enough offense and just enough pitching to make a wild card. If we even fall somewhere in between that and last years disasterfuck then we still have a good team. AA can still add/tinker/trade.
    I’ve stated a few times that I think a serviceable second basemen will shake loose by
    cut-down day. Between all the upside arms getting healthy, the youth in Stroman/Nolin..
    and a return to form from the guys who had the outliers I think we can be much better then what all the writers are saying. (this is the same braintrust that thought we’d win the series last year)

    I got my Brett Lawrie shirsey in the mail yesterday, my dad invited me to the opening series against the Yanks. I think I’m gonna go.

    Time to let last year circle the bowl. Last year wasn’t a fair representation of what these guys are. I think 14 will surprise a lot of you. And Anthopolous is not done……

  60. If anyone ever wonders why I hesitate to be overly negative sometimes, all you have to do is read some of these comments to see the kind of asinine company I don’t want to keep.

    The Jays are not that far behind the other teams in the AL East. People are acting like they couldn’t make runner-up in Little League.

    Their back-end pitching is untested. People are acting like no one could possibly come from there to being successful.

    Drew Hutchison and Kyle Drabek had Tommy John surgery in mid-2012. People are acting like they’re fresh from the infirmary and didn’t throw 57 and 45.1 innings, respectively, at various levels (including the AFL) in 2013.

    I’ll say it again and say even more: last year the Rays gave 31 starts to Jeremy Hellickson, who finally stopped outpitching his shitty FIPs. They gave 24 to Roberto Hernandez (Fausto Carmona), who had a 5.41 ERA over his previous 180 innings, a 3.77 ERA in 2010, and ERAs above 6 and 5 in 2009 and 2008. They gave 22 to Alex Cobb, who was not exactly a heralded prospect coming up.

    Boston gave 27 to Felix Doubront, whose xFIP numbers made his 2012 look a lot better than his FIP (4.37) or ERA (4.86) did, which gave him a nice 1.9 fWAR, but just 0.3 by BR’s calculation. They gave 29 to Lackey, who was awful in 2011 (6.41 ERA, 4.70 FIP/xFIP) and had Tommy John in 2012. They also had Dempster, who sucked when he went to Texas in 2012 and struggled with injury, plus Lester, who had seen his ERA, FIP, and xFIP all trend downward for three straight years (including a 4.83 ERA in 2012), and Buchholz, who has started about the same number of games since 2010 as Brandon Morrow.

    Baltimore won 85 games with a rotation that screams mediocrity. The Yankees won handing the ball to shitty Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova — who wasn’t good in 2012 — David Robertson, and a CC Sabathia who wasn’t nearly his usual self. Kansas City won 87 giving starts to Wade Davis, Luis Mendoza, and a guy named Ervin Santana coming off a godawful year. Cleveland made the playoffs pulling Corey Kluber and Danny Salazar out of pretty much nowhere, and managing to have Ubaldo and Scott Kazmir not be complete tire fires. Texas gave 34 starts combined to Nick Tepesch and Justin Grimm, plus 20 more to Martin Perez, who had been pretty bad in his first 38 big league innings in 2012.

    This, of course, isn’t to say that good pitching isn’t necessary or that the Jays shouldn’t be searching for as much as they can, but to again point out that many Jays fans’ expectations of what makes a tenable rotation on paper are completely out of whack right now, and that teams can be plenty successful with plenty of question marks being asked to take on a lot of responsibility.

    Is the rotation a concern? Yes. Is it hopeless? Hardly. Are the Jays “not trying”? Should they just go ahead and rebuild they’re so far behind? Ridiculous.

    And when voicing legitimate concern, I know it’s tough because this stuff is emotional for us, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that fans actually pay attention and stop themselves when their negativity veers into foaming-at-the-mouth stupidity that would make even the most pouty of teenagers blush.

    • Many thanks for fighting the good fight.

      • Thank you! my glass is half full again. Yes I would like to see another starter and yes I would like to see us shoring up 2nd but we aren’t as bad as some perceive
        I can’t wait for the season to start.

    • nice.

    • Well put and well needed.

    • Does this mean we can stop using the calculators and be fans again?
      Cheering for stuff that makes no sense to others.
      Praying for a hit to win the game.
      Be amazed at Lawrie grabbing one deep in 3rd base territory and gunning the guy at first.
      Cletus loping into right centre,making the catch look easy.
      Wondering why Gibby didn’t pitch hit only to find out he was right.Again.
      Feeling the taste of an ice cold, barley sandwich hit the back of your throat on a sunny afternoon,while watching the local nine.
      Let the games begin.

      • That makes me want to read The Thrill of the Grass.


      • Well done..capital.

      • Fuck off with your bullshit about calculators, RADAR. Of course we cannot stop wanting to be as informed about the game as possible. Acting like your luddite bullshit is somehow more noble is such a hopelessly transparent defense mechanism to excuse your laziness and close-mindedness regarding how thinking about the game has changed all around you.

        • Just when I thought you were getting all warm and cuddly…

        • @ Stoeten

          Did I hit a nerve again?
          What I’m trying to relay is that the analysis of moves to be made, the construction of the team ,the lack of FA signings,the dead weight of JPA and JJ gone, have been debated.
          I’m ready for some baseball.
          I know you don’t believe it, but I enjoy the statistical breakdown and the theories presented.The point/counterpoint discussions provide information that allow for my own opinions and conclusions.
          So let’s see how all that information translates into reality.
          Defense mechanism?How you get that is beyond me.
          Time for some real baseball.
          Let the players play,instead of guessing how they’ll play.

    • Finally some sanity. The comments were getting pretty crazy.

    • I love everything about this comment. Common sense!

      • The perfect shit storm happened last season with the WBC (yes WBC), injuries, new team mates and high expectations. We already know WBC isn’t happening.

        This team still expects to go out there and compete but now they don’t have the lingering pressure of being the “odds on favorites to win the division”. These guys are still human and I don’t care what kind of person you are, pressure and expectations affects performance.

        Does pressure make you get injured? heck no. But when you combine expectation and injury, it doesn’t bode well for a team that was roughly 44% (11/25) new going into the season. It would now appear that the team will only have 3 or 4 new faces on the 25-man roster.

        Injuries happen and they will happen this year. It would be naive to believe that we complete the season with 34 starts each from Dickey, Buerhle, Morrow, Happ and whoever. That we get 600 ABs each from Bautista, Encarnacion, Reyes, Lawrie and Rasmus. But I’d like to believe that we are able to stay at least marginally healthier than last season.

        Let the fair weather fans be fair weather but I refuse to jump to irrational conclusions as to why this team did not succeed last season why it is the same team that will not succeed this season.

    • I’m optimistic too, and don’t really care if they don’t do well….still going to watch them but would love to see Beeston’s three year plan of contention so I can go see some playoff games or see some games in September and October. However Kyle drabek has not been good at the big league level aside from three games and he’s coming off his second tommy john surgery…..Brandon Morrow when he’s not hurt has had one good year. This is what I don’t, get is the people that act like the Jays some how have a chance to win their divison because guys like Drabek and Morrow……lol

  61. Hutchison had more more wins in 2012 than Morrow and JJohnson combined in 2013. Maybe GM AA has more confidence in his young guys than bringing in expensive ones only to get shitcanned by the AL East.

    • I’m sure he doesn’t care about pitcher wins, but your point is still a good one.

      • I’m pretty pumped about the battle for the 5th spot in the rotation. My thinking is that Hutchinson wins it.

        • I’m sort of expecting Redmond to get it right at the beginning, just to see if everyone is healthy and the first call up will be Hutch. If everyone seems healthy, and Hutch is pitching well in the minors. probably be the first one up, but I just don’t want to lose Redmond on waivers, just to need him if a guy gets hurt within the first two weeks of the season. Let Stroman pitch in the minors for a little bit. Save the arb clock. Its just smart.

          • LOL Redmond barely got through 4 innings last year. You wanna start taxing the bullpen right off the hop eh

            • I guess, unless you consider that he went less than five innings in just four of his 14 starts last year.

              We probably shouldn’t pay attention to that, right?

          • I agree, i think it will be Redmond. He and Rogers are out of options, and Rogers has more experience in the pen.

            Redmond was actually kind of decent last year in a starting role and posted some pretty terrific K/BB ratios (small sample of course). HR’s are going to be a problem most likely, maybe too much of one, but you have to like guys who miss bats and limit walks.

      • Wrong AA does care about pitching wins, proof is in like every interview ever….Including today.
        Every interview he always brings up how Brett Cecil was their best pitcher in 2010 cause he won 15 games…..Brett Cecil wasn’t their best pitcher……Hope someday we can get away from hiring old school GMs and Managers. Thought AA was a advanced metric kid…. He’s not.

  62. oh and he’d be starting right behind Happ who completed 7 innings 3 of 18 attempts last year. Call it bitching, or being overly negative. But if you said any other team could compete with an ace that’s pushing 40, a 2-3 guy who has been injured more than he’s been healthy and 4th/5th starters with WARS less than 1 who couldnt pitch beyond the 6th inning you would laugh. Writing is on the wall, choose to view it with rose coloured glasses all you like.

    • His Bobness said it a long time ago:

      I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes
      And just for that one moment, I could be you
      Yes, I wish that for just one time, you could stand inside my shoes
      You’d know what a drag it is to see you

      • Or we could be you and say thanks for the shit sandwich AA, it was delicious, may I have another.

        • The line it is drawn
          The curse it is cast
          The slow one now
          Will later be fast
          As the present now
          Will later be past
          The order is
          Rapidly fadin’.
          And the first one now
          Will later be last
          For the times they are a-changin’.

          Get on the boat.
          Or not.

  63. Except that when we experiment with rookies it blows up.
    We are going with pitchers with no track records and expecting miracles.
    Didn’t we already try this experiment before? jojo reyes? esmil rogers? wang?
    How did that go?

    career IP

    drabek 169
    redmond 80
    hutch 58
    mcgowan 46 last 5 years
    nolin 1
    stroman 0

    Those are your options at 5th starter and your depth when somebody gets injured.
    So would I be terrifed? yes

    And weren’t we supposed to be contending and not just getting by with bandaid solutions?

    • there’s a difference between track record and talent, and one is more predictive than the other.

    • I fail to see how professional baseball players who are just young and inexperienced performing equates to a fucking miracle.

      its not a miracle if drabek, hutchinson or stroman performs. its whats supposed to happen, its a natural progression.

      Everyone needs to stop think that teams have never relied on young arms. Plenty of teams use young, high upside arms at the back of the rotation.

      The great part is, if drabek or hutch dont perform you can send them down to work on things, unlike a guy like JJ who has a track record and you keep sending out there.

      It’s a great thing to actually have to perform to play

  64. Be interesting what AA has to say tomorrow. From what some of the reporters are saying the Jays wont be signing anyone which is baffling – but not ultimately surprising – to me whether you believe in what you have or not. Upgrades are upgrades and you don get a second chance once the season starts to add players without pillaging your farm system. As ive said all along i think they can win 82-85 games but it wont be enough because of the strength of competition, not just in the division, but in the league overall. For the first time in a long time you have at least 3 strong teams in each division and 5 teams in the AL East. With the unbalanced schedule, the Central and West teams have a built-in advantage already.

    • Jays won’t win more than 81 games unless they play .500 vs the east which they haven’t shown they can do. And all the east teams have improved while the jays didn’t.

  65. The reason why this team is a joke is the following.
    This team hasn’t made the playoffs in 20 years.
    This team finished in last place 2 years.
    This team can’t develop it’s own players.
    This team has a history of injuries.
    No grass.
    This team hasn’t spent money for most of the past 15 years.
    Beeston says he wants to win the world series.
    All we are asking is for the jays just to do a little SOMETHING for ONCE.
    Yet they do NOTHING.

    • do something for once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      like trade a bunch of your top prospects for studs, that can’t fail

  66. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/02/phillies-notes-rollins-montgomery-draft-picks.html

    Phillies cementing their position as worst front office in baseball (read the draft pick points).

  67. Well, in response to nothing at all:

    As someone who reads most every comment and tries to always consider the other person’s viewpoint (which is usually right) this has been the most stupid fucking piece of shit board I have ever read and I am surprised Stoeten didn’t cap it long ago.

    I don’t have anything intelligent to contribute, as usual. The tone, though, and what we’re letting each other get away with is disgusting.

    I didn’t learn a single thing reading those comments. Just a bunch of whining and people arguing with whiners.

  68. One thing about The Smasher’s paen to the horribleness that was 2013 struck me. He was talking about Romero realizing the right field was weak so going for strike-outs and getting shelled. I thought all year that the pitchers didn’t trust the infield defense or the catcher’s defense so they pitched for the k and got into trouble. That’s why I’m the lone voice cheering that we’ve got Goins at 2nd. He can play his position. With no WBC for Lawrie to hurt himself, we should have mostly excellent infield D. I think that, all by itself, will make a big difference to the rotation we have. Add a different catcher with–I hope–better defensive and game-calling skills and a better attitude, and I believe you will see a much much improved rotation without spending a dime.

    • I like Goins too but I wish they’d give Negrych a shot. If Seitzer can coax some base hits out of Goins it could be a nice season.

  69. At what point exactly did AA go from “we’re looking at acquiring 1, possibly 2 SP’s” to “we like our internal options” ??? When ?? The reasoning doesn’t square up. What, he just realized last week that our “internal options” could carry the day ??

    • Morrow’s health looked good, Hutchison and Stroman looked very good in AFL, reports on Drabek were good. At least, that would be the official story, I believe.

      • Do you believe that official story?
        Seriously asking for your opinion.

      • I agree that is what he will say and there is “some” truth to it, but how do they defend having Happ in rotation? What has he shown as a Jay? As you have said previously, why not increase your assets.

        They are one Dickey/Morrow/Buerhle injury away from this being a passable rotation with upside, to an absolute disaster rotation similar to last season.

        • They failed to land anyone new. They aren’t going to disparage who they have, even if they are just “stuck” with them….

    • That comment does kind of suck. It’s just a guess on my part but I don’t really believe that suddenly AA likes the internal options more. He wanted to get starters and I think Rogers closed the purse strings.

      Even if you like the internal options. Having a Santana for what is basically becoming chump changes in today’s league is a nice insurance policy to have when the injuries set in.

  70. So AA just confirmed no free agent pitcher this year. Quelle surprise!! lol

  71. Ken Rosenthal tweeted last night that Joe Saunders is looking pretty good and scouts are really impressed. There’s no chance he’ll command anywhere near what Jimenez or Santana are asking for and getting. I’m wondering if AA should take a flyer on him? Then again, the Blue Jays don’t need another 4/5 starter, do they?

  72. Ben Nicholson-Smith ‏@bnicholsonsmith 1m

    Anthopoulos to media in Dunedin: “We got very close on some trades. Free agency wise, I don’t think we ever got close at all.”


  73. When AA personally set his shopping list at one or two new starters for the offseason, it is hard not to criticize him for netting zero. That’s only holding him to his own assessment.

  74. I laughed out loud when AA referred to the “competition” they brought in for Goins if he fails. You mean the poo you’re going to fling at the wall AA? Really? I guess having no cash to work with will transform any GM to a poo flinger in no time.

    So there you have it. No upgrades boys and girls. Just going to double down on what we had last year. Again I agree there’s a whole lot of internal improvement coming if the guys are healthy. The problem is you’re basically running the same experiment again a year later but without any real knowledge of knowing that if what you had would have worked the first time around if healthy. To me it’s a huge gamble. Maybe it’s one he was forced to take if the cutbacks to the payroll were real. It’s hard to think otherwise though because I’ve always viewed AA as a straight shooter. I don’t know how you go from believing you need a couple of starters to not needing any. It’s not like he didn’t know about Hutchison, Happ, Drabek and Stroman’s status when he made those comments.

    Anyway I sure hope it we have a case of same shit different results this year.

  75. I couldn’t find the presser live anywhere. Can someone give me a bullet point thingie of what he said or was it just blather?

  76. Rogers just spent $5.3B on a new block of the wireless spectrum. Looks like the serious overpay was for their core business and not FA pitchers.

    • If AA was in charge of telecommunications, he’d have everyone using tin cans and string because there would be more value there.

      ok ok unfair, I now truly believe more than ever that there’s a payroll issue. I see no logic in not doing anything else.

    • You can never pay too much to maintain your oligopoly.

    • That should read $3.3B.

  77. So…why did he call the presser? Generally you do that to make an announcement about some event, not some non-event. If I was a conspiracy theorist–which occasionally I am–I would suspect that press conference was called by AA to put pressure on a management that has cut off the purse strings pretty sharply. Saying ‘we’re gonna do nothing’ after saying ‘we are gonna get at least one starter’ is going to push the fan-base to a collective hissy-fit just like we’ve seen on this thread except multiplied by about a million. Rogers may have a strangle-hold on the nations communications and the Jays are a very small part of that. But I doubt the bean counters will appreciate the blow-back.

    • If you want to go down that kind of road you could also theorize that it’s a move to push Santana’s camp into accepting a lesser offer.

    • I don’t think it had anything to do with putting pressure on Rogers. It’s just part of the spring training ritual. All GM’s meet with their media in spring training. Also there’s nothing AA could do to make Rogers change their mind about a thing like a budget, especially publicly if he wanted to keep his job. They’ve always claimed they could go to management for more money for the right player. Apparently none of the FA’s were the right player when it looks like their budget is already capped. Again, I think it’s a huge risk going with what they have especially with the way the team is constructed. It’s built largely for this year and next.

    • It was the first day that all players were required to be reported to camp. It was a pretty standard media availability.

      • I can’t believe it’s standard to say ‘nope. We aren’t gonna sign anyone’. Better, surely, to say ‘we are trying our best to get something done but there aren’t many pitchers and there are a lot of needy teams’. Even if the intent is to stand pat. Why close the door on an unexpected phone call from another GM or an agent?

        • Because it’s February 20th, they’re not signing Santana

          • It’s implied that he’s still looking to improve the team (at least to me it is). I assumed his comments this morning were entirely about Santana

        • Do you really think AA saying that in the media affects whether or not teams/agents actually contact him? I’m pretty sure him saying “We aren’t going to make any other moves” in a press conference won’t change the way anyone else operates.

  78. I got this year’s Baseball Prospectus, and while in general they weren’t very high on the Jays, one guy they really liked was Stroman, predicting that he could have an ERA under 4.00 in the rotation.

    • I think it would be a good idea to start the season with McGowan as the 5th starter, letting him skip a couple turns when necessary. Hopefully his arm can hold up until early June when Stroman can be called up after the Super 2 deadline.

      That should help clear out some of the excess in the bullpen too. This team reeeally can’t go a full year with a 3 man bench, when 1 of those is a backup catcher and the other is Izturis

      • Also, that lets Drabek and Hutchison start the year in AAA to help out if Morrow gets hurt, or Happ sucks.

      • It’s almost a given that Stroman won’t start the season with the Jays simply because of the lack of options for so many of the other guys. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Hutchison start at AAA as well. The problem with trying to trade a guy like Rogers or Redmond is that, one, they aren’t all that valuable even if they do have a nice arm like Rogers. They are depth pieces for most clubs. Two, the other teams know they are out of options so it’s not like AA is trading from a position of strength. I have to believe Mr. Value would find it hard to cut guys like them lose for nothing. To me that’s where an established starter would have removed the temptation to start one of those guys in 5th spot to start the season.

        Unless things change drastically I would not be surprised in the least to see Rogers as the 5th starter. I think Hutchison or Stroman would make a far better option but because they have those options I just don’t see it happening.

        • Rogers as the 5th starter does not compute. Please re-enter data and try again.

        • To hell with losing Todd Redmond, you know? I want this team to play the best pitchers it can at all times, not concern itself with losing Todd friggin Redmond

        • I agree. Rogers seems the more likely fit. I’m fine with this as I believe Hutchison/Stroman need to start in Buffalo. No idea where Drabek will end up, nor do the Jays. Redmond will probably get waived and picked up by Seattle/Detroit/Houston.

        • Jays traded aviles and Gomes for Rogers when he was out of options. There is value there and a one for one trade could land the best second base option on the team

  79. Well, they ARE going to try and screw-up the momo from the end of last year aren’t they?
    OK, if their new “do nothing” strategy works and somehow all the “ifs” work out ( If Morrow stay healthy and deals, IF JB hits 40HR,IF Goins can play.if,if,if) then AA will look like a genious but attendance and stuff may still be down because this do nothing stategy will have a lot of fans, including me, do the same thing. May pick up late in the year if successful. If the strategy fails, lookf for a big drop off in attendance with the resulting loss of goodwill as well. Personally, I think it is a flawed strategy, with too great a probability of downside risk but somebody has put the brakes on full stop here.
    The acquisition of a FA starter, would have sent the message to the customers(fans) that they were carrying thru on their stated goal of improving the club in any way possible and I would think created some “buzz” around the team and showed Bautista and others that they are truly in it to win it, not just be a participant and rely on that “hopey changy thing”.
    I have my own thought s on the brakes, and I have no proof, but I spent many a year working for cocksucking big companies in finance and whenever a new guy takes over there is often a FREEZE on everything not deemed critical til she/he reviews it for strategic fit bla bla bla. Are the Jays critical? Second, I wrote when the Canadian dollar plumetted to .9488 from .98 in week that trouble was coming. Mentioned it again at.9188. This morning we are at .8988. The fukin payroll is up about 19m from last year by doing nothing! Yes some is hedged, bla bla but the trend is down and someone, somewhere,I think is holding the line in “Canadian dollars”. I really hope I am wrong on this but have abad feeling in my gut. Well, I still have 45$ at 45-1 to win the WS but it doesn;t look like such a great move now.
    GO JAys and do your best

    • You are right payroll is hedged until the end of 2014 as I pointed out. You are also right that the dollar is likely to be a problem going forward. Add that to the corporate setbacks they had in their wireless business along with a new CEO wanting to put his stamp on things and there is undoubtedly some serious corporate ball clinching going on at HQ.

      To me it’s the only reasonable excuse for them to not have made additional moves. Again Boston was in a very similar position to the Jays after 2012 but they still went out and upgraded substantially as insurance for some of their guys bouncing back. Now you can rightfully argue that some of those contracts might not look great by the 3rd or 4th year, but it certainly did wonders for year 1 and it gives them time to make other moves to counteract those contracts.

      The big problem for me is that this was the year if there ever was one to upgrade. Your first rounder is protected, you’ve reportedly got a nice crop of kids in the international draft this year that the money could have been spent on instead of the lost draft pick. Next year’s free agent class looks to be brutal and it’s likely to get worse as more guys extend instead of hitting the open market. If they ended up with a surplus in the pitching department (horrible problem to have) then they were that much better off in finding a replacement for Colby and Melky when they likely are allowed to walk. All of that goes without saying, that doubling down on last year’s results is a huge gamble.

      • funny listening to the know it alls who think they know what a hedge is. There is no hedging going on you idiots for a measly 10 mil.

        • Dude you’re an idiot. Before you open your mouth again go and read a copy of Rogers A/R so you actually have a clue as to what we are talking about and then go and read why businesses that deal in multiple currencies hedge.

          • You are a fool if you think rogers would hedge 10 mil. That is a ROUNDING ERROR.
            Breaking newsflash for you: There is NO FIXED PAYROLL. They can cut payroll by 10 mil ANYTIME THEY WANT.

            • Wow I thought you were dumb before, thanks for confirming it in spades. Again if you took the time to actually read the AR you would see just how much they hedged. I believe it was $720 million in total. Please get a clue and bugger off until you do.

  80. FA SP is obviously NOT a reality for the Jays in 2014. Let’s focus on the leverage the Jays can work with – RP out of options.
    re: Mike Petriello of FanGraphs piece concerning 2B fix…
    I don’t see why the Jays have not pulled a trade of Rogers for a MLB 2B, unless asking prices are sky high for guys like Ackley or Murphy. I would think Ackley (FA 2018, $1.7M/yr, 25 yrs old, 2B/OF, good defence) could be obtained for Rogers who is out of options. Seattle needs pen help and would provide them with #5 SP in emergency and backfill Iwakuma for a few weeks. Maybe deal grows for Franklin and includes Gose going the other way (Seattle needs OF defence).

    • probably because Rogers doesn’t land you a MLB 2B

      • I could see maybe Gose and one of the depth pitchers getting a decent 2B. Especially for a team that needs a super rangey CF

      • And if he picthed enough to justify a trade, you wouldnt be trading him in the first place, cause that would mean he was good lol

        • Actually, no. You trade excess for omission. Jays have RP to trade, but need 2B; Seattle has excess IF, but have holes in their pen. Once ST is wrapping up and season begins there may be more in the way of trades.

      • to get ackley, would think that toronto would be looking at giving up at least one of hutchinson or nolin and maybe of both them. and maybe even more. while in the minros, ackley was a blue chip middle infield prospect and, although he has faltered in the majors, he hasn’t been around that long at all. people seem to think seatlle will simply give toronto one of him or franklin.

        • But so was Gose, its a fair swap. they get a defense first that has great speed CF and has definite upside. And we get a similar piece in ackley. They’ve both faltered. The problem is the mariners are probably more attracted by pitching though, even though they need someone in the outfield more, just like an upgrade at 2nd would be the most obvious upgrade.

          • ackley was a legitimate elite middle INF prospect. gose was a speed merchant who has always been considered a project with the bat. no way that is happeneing.

        • Seattle covets Franklin more then Ackley. Glut of IF began when they signed Hart and Morrison, but still required OF with power (or defensive mobility). With Cano, Rodney and aforementioned they are finding it difficult to insure Iwakuma.
          I still think there’s a deal for Ackley here. He’s not Franklin, but he’s controlled until 2018 with a good glove.

      • Rogers lands a good backup 2b one for one. By good backup I mean better than goins.

  81. Someone explain to AA the definition of insanity.

  82. It’ll be interesting how the whole Aldemys Diaz Cuban expatriate situation plays out in the next few days.

    I’d rather see upgrading on the infield rather than signing Santana for the wrong price.

    According to MLB rumours the local 9 are one of seven finalists for the Cuban.

    Unfortunately so are the Yankees…..

  83. Luckily for Stoeten he won’t need to post Thursday’s Daily Duce because AA already dumped one on all of us.

  84. With all the people jumping out of the boat I guess the game threats are going to be less crowded.

    • Would love to see them make a Go Pro mandatory for catchers in things like the All-Star game. I imagine you would get some serious footage.

      Also wonder if teams will start using them for analytical purposes. Might be better than the traditional centerfield camera.

  85. Boston is going to sign Capuano it looks like. Must be nice.

    • Seriously, boston has a crap ton of pitching depth, but that isnt stopping them from signing a free agent pitcher after dempster’s retirement. Why arent the jay’s doing the same? It’s kind of stupid.

      • To be fair, I’m sure Capuano wants to pitch in Boston.

        • My point is even boston with a set rotation that can eaily withstand dempsters retirement, is still signing a free agent pitcher. We have depth, but not even signing a low cost, medium to upside pitching, especially after letting Johnson go is kinda stupid.

          • No money = no honey. That’s the reason right there and why AA says stuff like Navarro was an overpay because he had to go 2 years for $8 million instead of 1 year and $3 million like Soto got.

            • I was stunned by that part of the interview. We are in for a tough road ahead if AA doesnt even want to commit to 2 years for his starting catcher

              • I have to wonder if he’s saying that stuff more out of necessity because of the payroll situation is what it is, or if he’s such a hard core believer in squeezing that type of value out of every transaction. I would really like to believe that it’s the former and not the latter. The latter quality is fine for certain things, but imo I think you end up passing up on a lot of quality and upside when you’re so tightly focused in getting every ounce of value out of a situation.

              • Yes that was shocking… two years and pretty much exactly the same money Arencibia would have gotten in arb over both those years is an overpay in Anthopoulos’ eyes? Is he delusional?

                Saying “We’d like to do (add a starter) but we’re not going to do it at all costs”… how about some cost? What the fuck is his definition of “all costs” because it sure as fuck sounds like his sole definition of “all costs” is below average.

    • That will probably put Capuano into the swing man/long relief role while moving Workman to AAA as a starter. Gives them Workman, Webster and De La Rosa as MLB ready depth. Seem like they are ready to go toe to toe with anybody.

      • The advantage of having brains AND dollars. For just one winter i would love the jays to add via free agency from a position of strength. Listening to the Jays management it seems like a luxury we will never have.

  86. So AA has now gone on record stating there won’t be adding any starters he is happy with and believes in what he has.. Umm ok? Is this not the same man who only a handful of months ago was telling anyone that would listen that they needed to add 2 starters.

    I didn’t think it could get worse than the JP Riccardi era but fuck me it just has.

    This is a combination of Alex not properly managing fans expectations and Rogers being cheap stingy fuckers.

    • Then go cheer for someone else.

      • pretty much,
        you guys wonder why toronto fans have a rep of being douchey
        guys like HJ birdie…
        thast why

        • Pretty sure everything I’ve said is accurate, at least to the extent that it can be debated. Douchey? Why exactly? For not being happy with mediocrity?

          There’s a faction of people here that get their backs up to the wall the minute anything negative is said about the team… I’m not saying the team is garbage and they have zero chance to compete. I’m saying AA is a lousy GM and Rogers are not providing the team with the financial support it requires.

          • HJ Birdie…
            i’ve looked at what you said, cross referenced fan graphs, pitch f/x, adjusted for park factor, and you’re a twat

        • HJBirdie is entirely right and not being a douche at all. The team is by lying directly to the fans and his reaction is entirely justified. If they just said they like the status quo and will look into options at the start of the offseason I dont think he would be so negative. He is just speaking hte truth and doesnt appreciate the attempted manipulation of the fan base

          • I’m not happy, but it’s quite obvious he’s changed his mind over the course of the winter, balked at the free agent prices and convinced he aint gonna get a Kyle lohse type of contract. He’s tried through trades, and they didnt go through. To say it’s worse than the Riccairdi era though, is rather ridiculous cause that guy was quite terrible.

            • The most likely scenario given the facts is the AA was feeding the fans BS from the very beginning and they were never in on the FA. If as you say he completely misjudged the market then that is a sign of extreme incompetence – which I dont believe at all. I think you are kidding yourself if you think they thought they were actually going to sign players for way under market rates.

              JPRs record is not nearly so dire as you seem to think and it is ridiculous to annoint AA as far superior when he has not got any results thus far.

    • Don’t agree with your last point but your first for sure, whats really annoying about this is how it was the Jays saying they needed starters not media driven to the larger extent it often is, it was AA saying starters were important. Then he was apparently not prepared or not able to pay the money he needed to or make the trades he wanted to. Don’t go out and say that when you are not sure you can deliver, its not that hard.

    • Things are no where near as bad as they were under JPR. I hate the idea of them not making upgrades but i also realize this team is way better than they showed. Are they a playoff team? Maybe, but that is still a huge improvement over the JPR years especially when you consider minor leagues and even their financial situation.

      • I dont agree with that at all. The JPR era wasn’t nearly as bad as you seem to recall. In 2006 when they opened up the wallets they were a good team, got 86 wins and would have surely made the playoffs if not for the Yanks ans Sox being complete powerhouses at the time.

        JPR drafting record wasn’t great but his era did produce MLB players some of them good players. He got Bautista and Encarnacion who are the core of the current team via trade.

        The book is out on AA. After the first year of jacking up payroll the team got 75 wins. After rebuilding for 3 years before that the team has 24th ranked farm system.

        In the end his record as a GM could be worse the same or better than JPR – nobody knows at this point. So far it is worse.

        It isnt about how much you like somebody it is about results – AA has none to speak of so far and the two best players on the team were acquired by JPR. JPR did get some results albeit didnt get the team into the playoffs.

        Drives me crazy how many of the fans here support AA to no end ignoring the fact that has yet to accomplish anything. Im sure you will pick out all sorts of convenient reasoning and particular instances where he did something good or JPR bad but you can do the opposite too if you arent drunk off the kool-aid. I hope AA succeeds but if not wonder how long it will be before you shit all over him like you do JPR

        • Actually I don’t hate JPR at all, he was a product of the organization’s preferred direction. He might have oversold himself in the beginning by selling the moneyball aspect to management but they were the idiots that went looking to duplicate something that they didn’t understand in the first place. They had there eyes on the bottom line and that was it.

          When I say things are far better than they were under JPR, I am talking about everything. Not just his results or what JPR did specifically.

          The team is in a far better position to move forward competitively than they were during his reign. Whether that’s a sign of what JPR did or whether that’s an amalgamation of what happened the last couple of years before he arrived is really irrelevant to me. I don’t care who is responsible, I am looking at the entire picture. If we’re being honest here, a lot of the talent that JPR had during his time was inherited. If you want to be silly and pull out guys like Jose and EE then I’ll just counter that with Halladay, Wells and Rios. We’ve got more scouts, we’ve got a farm system that’s set to start shooting out 1 or 2 top tier arms a year for the forseeable future. We probably have more all round talent on the major league roster now than at any time during JPR’s tenure, and we’ve got more financial commitments from ownership than ever before. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying everything is peachy keen, because it’s not, and I think I’ve stated that plenty of times before. That said, where would you rather be? Where the team is now, or back at any point during JPR’s tenure? It’s a pretty simple choice imo. Again it’s less about AA vs JPR and more about the resources that were/are available going forward.

          And yes results matter, however, how you got them also counts, and what shape you leave the club in after you got them.

          • The team in 2006 was in great shape and had a window of contention like this team does – very similar position to now. Competition was tougher. They did well during that window – this team had 75 wins last year. A GMs record ultimately comes down to how well the MLB team did.

            Yes the organization as a whole looks to be in better shape but it premature to say there is a pipeline of top tier arms in the system when the ranking of the farm is 24th and the player development track record is not impressive. Not as many long term commitments / financial flexibility is a good thing and in 2016/2017 most of the money is off the books. If the veterans aren’t brought back the team will not be good, fa alone wont be cost effective, if some are brought back and fa signed payroll will be big and will they be competitive enough? There are not a bunch of likely impact guys from the minors coming up so looks like there will be a rebuild at some point unless the team really does well and revenues increase something the JPR team nearly did. Things could have been a lot different if a 2006-2008 team made the playoffs or won a world series.

            Yes a rebuild would likely start from a better position (assuming lots of prospects arent traded in the meantime) than when AA took over. For me the critical things is how good will the team be in the next couple years and last year was not a good start.

            • You’ve got Stroman, Hutchison, Drabek and Nolin all set to compete this year at some point. Sanchez and maybe Norris next year. After that, there’s guys like Osuna (spelling) and Triado. Sure none are a lock, but the pipeline is there. Again you know just as well as i do that guys like Law rank them so lowly at the moment because he is looking at players closer to the majors. Guys like Parks on the other hand take a deeper look and rank them far higher.

              Competition being tougher is a silly argument to make, things have never been more competitive because of the rise of successful small market teams, the money available and the changes in the draft. Just look at the division this year, 5 strong teams in the AL East, and 3 more in the other two divisions, with Seattle being no pushover.

              It’s that reason alone for me that management should have added instead of standing pat.

              2016 and beyond might look worse if payroll went back to the shitter levels, i dont see it happening. At least in two years time the depth and quality of their minor league teams at the lower levels will become a potential strength. You combine that with all the young pitching that is starting to flourish now and the GM – whomever that is, though I am betting AA still – can use that to fill holes.

              • None of the mentioned pitchers have had much success at all in MLB and nobody knows what they may produce. There could be 10 seasons of average to below average production from all those players. Lots of similarly hyped prospects have always amounted to nothing. Law ranks them low because that is what the indusrty values them at and they are valued that way because most wont pan out.

                In 2006 the Yanks and Sox being powerhouses along with the relative lack of parity is what made it so difficult for the Jays to compete. It is easier now and in the current landscape there is a much better chance the 2006-2008 team would make the playoffs now than then. JPR put together a good team

                Time will tell on the payroll – if the team continues to lose why should we imagine payroll can stay high? It didn’t in 2009 and it wont now either. They arent going to bleed money indefinitely waiting for the good team on paper to win and bring in revenue. Its already been one year and the next ones are critical for that.

      • Come on. These Jays may be in better shape than when Anthopoulos took over, but Riccardi’s 2008 Blue Jays are probably the best team that has been seen since the World Series and most definitely should have been a playoff team

        That 2008 team had the second best run differential in the AL, yet finished 4th in the AL East and 9 games back of the wild card. That’s what horrible luck is. That’s a team that was built to put up great numbers over a 162 game stretch. Did precisely that. But still didn’t get the results they earned.

        Did Ricciardi leave the team in perfect shape? Nope.

        But it’s not fair at all to imply that the Jays teams he put together were horrible.

        • But when he left the team was quite crappy. At least if AA were to leave today, the farm would be in good shape (24th by ONE evaluator, Law isnt the gospel), a roster that while is projected for 4th place, is only a few games away from the wildcard contenders and we still have major league ready talent cause AA wasnt too trigger happy with what’s left in the farm.

    • @HJTurdy: don’t know where this land, sent on a Blackberry from the depths of Florida, but listen dickbreath, you think AA has “managing fan expectations” on his jd? That’s short for “job description”, something you obviously have never seen, since your head is lodged up your ass. Tired of reading your drivel, grasshopper.

  87. I get the feeling Diaz will be the latest of the group of free agents that later a leak will say we were “2nd best bid” for…after the fact

    • Davidi posted that the Jays held a private workout with Diaz last weekend, but also included AA’s quotes about a free agent signing being quite unlikely, so, it seems unlikely to me, even if they may have interest. Sigh. http://t.co/XpOi1tSLQ7

  88. Rogers purchased the team in September, 2000. Argument’s sake I think it makes sense that 2001 is their first payroll responsibility.

    In 2001 on opening day, they’re payroll had increased from 50 mil to 75, propelling the Jays into the top 10 in payroll (10th.) In 2002, the payroll ballooned to a whopping 76 million…and dropped the Jays out of top 10 in payroll. (Payroll does not necessarily = winning, I know lol)

    Since then, in 2003, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11 and 12 (Minus 2008) Toronto’s payroll was in the bottom half of MLB (16 or worse).

    My point? None of us should be surprised or we’re the idiots. They’ve increased spending before, and cut it off almost immediately more than once. Frustrating as a fan for sure. Seems like they try going all in to a degree every 5 years or so. Cheers to 2018!

    • Isn’t that the year they’re supposed to sign up some grass too?

      • Oh yeah didn’t even think of that! lol off the wall conspiracy theory that I in no way believe:

        Float until then (this would be Rogers thinking not AA, I’ll assume any GM regardless of his payroll parameters wants to win still lol) where you spend enough to keep the on field product watch able to the point they stay in the black. Then in 2018, boom! Monster off-season, install grass (and whatever other upgrades they feel like) pump up the hype…then sell! They bought for 168, it’s valued by Forbes now at 568 million. Nice profit, especially considering 4 more years of inflation.

    • When Rogers bought the Jays,they were ” bleeding money”.
      Godfrey brought in JPR,who assured him would stop the bleeding by utlizing under valued players. A system he learned as Beane’s AGM.
      When JPR couldn’t repilcate the A’s,he whined about not having the budget to compete in the ALE.So Rogers upped the budget and he aquired Thomas, Ryan etc.
      Meanwhile, back at the ranch,the Jays were classified as a “small market team” in the new CBA,thus enititling them to 30 mil/year in payments from MLB.
      Things have changed along the years,the Canadian dollar,national and local TV rights exploded,content was needed for new platforms emerging,etc.
      Now the 30 mil payments have ceased under the new CBA and the Jays must compete in the open market.

      • Yup, compete within the 4th largest market in the league. With an entire country at their disposal and the resources of the largest corporation in the country. WTF was the Gord Ashe regime doing to bleed money in a market like that? It’s not as if Riccardi’s or AA’s teams have done any better, they’ve got 1 second place finish and a bunch of 4th/5ths and off-seasons that rival the Ash days minus star power. (Clemens anyone?)

        In which business to you start increasing revenues and profit and raking in money without ever spending it first? Build, promote and sell your product; but for fuck sake’s offer a product that’s competitive with your size and competition, or get out lol. Though I get it; regardless of result they’ve got a ton of free content for Sportsnet lol

        • Toronto is the 4th largest baseball market?! What a joke! What did you think is the largest hockey market? Los Angeles? If Mexico City got an NHL team would it be the largest hockey market?

          • I never said “baseball” market; I said market in general. Considering the history of the sport in this country, using hockey and Mexico City might be the most ridiculous and just plain stupid thing I’ve read on this thread, and that’s saying something.

            The two sports don’t even play at the same time of the year; Plenty of smaller markets than ours (Boston for example with the Bruins, Patriots, Celtics, Sox) are successful on the field/ice/court and basically print money. Failing financially when an expansion team with 0 hope of success (95 raptors) the CFL and a sport that’s played the opposite time of year as you is your only competition is embarrassing.

      • The Rogers franchise as a whole has never been too big on that ‘Open Market’ theory.

  89. On a good note, a very patriotic tip of the hat to the Canadian women in hockey and curling. Just hope the men can hold up their end of the deal next.

    • Yup. Took some time off work with the idea of watching the last few days of the Olympics. Off to a great start with the two golds, plus it’s 3:30 and I’m well into my cups by now.

  90. How relieved was that lines(wo)man who almost caused an empty-net goal when Canada tied it!

  91. So AA said they never really came close on a free agent pitcher. If Ubaldo’s contract was not even close to something the jays would have even considered, then I think AA has to rethink what these pitchers cost. Did he really think Santana or Jiminez was going to cost under 10 million a year?

    Im sure he didnt. He’s just being disingenuous. He very well knew there was essentially no way in hell he was going to be spending the required dough to obtain one of the top free agents…but was just trolling us along for a wild ride.

    • yea, I’m sure rogers hired him to troll their customers… back to the loony bin with you!

      • The Leiutenant is right and that is exactly what happened. We are being lied to whether that is sponsored by Rogers or not.

        The only other explanations are that the payroll budget changed over the course of the offseason (not likely) or as he says in the first paragraph they totally misread the market which would show serious incompetence.

        • Or he has changed his mind and now thinks someone in the minors is ready to step. Just to.let you know…plans do change in business when circumstances change.

          • But the circumstances did not change

          • I think he misread the strength of his hand. He thought that there were fewer players and most of them had to pay compensation. That “disingenuos” bit is crap. Even the most open manager doesnt show his whole plan. We don’t know what he was prepared to pay but he was thinking earlier of trading for Kinsler whose contract is huge. I just don’t think he thought either of these guys were worth it.

    • I think the simple reality is that, good news from hutchinson, drabek and especially morrow, changed his desperation level.

      I believe, mostly for my sanity, that if Morrow was still a question mark health wise, that he would have been far more aggressive.

      • I think you are giving way too much false credit. The simple reality is they were never going to add payroll and the fanbase was mislead while people are clutching at straws instead of admitting the obvious

        • I think you’re reading too much into this, there’s probably a middle ground. The improved health of his pitchers made him more confident in his internal options, and when the trades fell through and the prices of free agent pitchers didn’t drop far enough, he felt more confident moving forward. Sure payrol restrictions prevented him from overpaying for pitchers, but maybe he didnt want to be like the phillies and yankees of the world.

          There is something called ‘changing their minds’. Maybe you’ve heard of it.

          • If they suddenly change their minds from the start of the offseason to towards the end they are simply not doing a good job at all then. I think you are reading too much into it and ignoring the truth staring you in the face.

  92. I’m thinking for someone like Santana, the Jays probably see good value at 2/$25mill or 3/$30mill and would probably push it to 3/$36mill or 3/$39mill if they had to, but it’s hard to see any merit in a deal in the neighbourhood of 4/$50mill given Santana’s overall averagey career, inconsistent performance, age, and poor fit for the park and league.

    if you’re going to get mediocre performance, you might as well get it out of guys making the minimum rather than $10+mill per season.

    • I’d completely agree if there was a guarantee of mediocre performance from Drabek/Happ/Hutch/Stroman.
      Unfortunately between Hutch and Drabek, they don’t even have a complete season in the Majors period whether good, bad or average. Stroman we all love of course, but still hasn’t thrown a pitch in the bigs. Happ has only had 1 season in his career with a WAR over 1 (2009), and the last time he started 20+ games (2011) he was worth -1.8 WAR, which is half a win worse than even Santana’s brutal 2012 of -1.3 WAR.

      I think people severely under-appreciate the cost of even mediocrity. Simply being healthyish and average means you’re going to cost a lot.

      I think the cost of even mediocre

      • Oops began a thought and then didn’t delete it lol…all WAR numbers are from baseball reference

      • That -1.8 bWAR is really odd. fWAR (0.3) seems a lot kinder to him overall: 1.7 (144 IP) and 1.2 (92 IP) over the past two seasons. I’d take that.

        Though strangely enough, in 2009 he was worth 4.2 (!) wins by bWAR and only 1.5 by fWAR.

        Also, his FIP over the last 6 years: 4.14, 4.33, 4.32, 4.69, 4.01, 4.31. That’s pretty steady. Can we really count on Santana to be that much better, for a much higher price?

        • Happ has also never thrown 200 innings, thrown 150 only twice and never started 30 games, and is a free agent next year anyway.

          Santana has 200 5 times, 150 at least in every full season except for 1. Is 10 million or so worth at least knowing what you’re getting? And not having to supplement the missing innings with more money on pitchers who probably aren’t as good as even Happ?

          Side note, how sad is our team that we’re relegated to being pissed off about Ervin freakin’ Santana?

          • “Is 10 million or so worth at least knowing what you’re getting?”

            The thing is, I don’t think you can even get that with Santana. He gave up 1.97 HR/9 two years ago, pitching in Anaheim. That’s terrifying.

            • precisely, i mean there is value in knowing a guy will make his starts no matter how bad he’s throwing the ball, but then again, if he’s throwing the ball poorly he’s not helping you win ball games anyways. The question is whether the performance risk that Santana presents is worth the durability that he brings, or more importantly, whether the overall equation is worth $10-12mill over 3-4 years compared to internal 5th starter options making the minimum.

              you can argue one way or the other for sure, but it’s certainly not a clear upgrade. There are very realistic scenarios where the internal options are higher quality than Santana next season.

              Now Ubaldo would have been a much better use of money in my opinion, but there again is still pretty substantial performance risk and a lower track record of innings totals compared to Santana. His second half performance from last season is heavily enhanced by abysmal competition, and his mechanical changes came at the suggestion of a pitching coach he will no longer have. Declining GB% and the greater potential for injury risk now given a very slider heavy approach are other reasons to fear a 4 year deal.

  93. I liked the Idea of the Jays picking up Ian Keneddy cheap last year for a nice bounce back but it didnt happen .

  94. october 2013

    AA: we need to sign a free agent pitcher
    beeston: there’s no more money
    AA: ok I’ll tell the fans we’re going with prospects.
    beeston: don’t you dare, our season ticket sales will plummet. Wailt till spring.
    AA: ok I’ll tell them we’re looking to sign a free agent pitcher if the price is right
    beeston: but we know the price will never be right (chuckle chuckle)
    AA: then right before spring training, I’ll tell them mcgowan is our 5th starter!
    beeston: rofl, no stop Alex, that’s too cruel!
    AA: how bout jojo reyes then! (both rolling on floor laughing)
    beeston: stop alex your killing me.
    AA: how bout when you told them you’d have grass by 2018?
    beeston: I meant 2028! (hysterically laughing)
    AA: stop, stop! I can’t take this anymore.(crying with laughter)

  95. None of the mentioned pitchers have had much success at all in MLB and nobody knows what they may produce. There could be 10 seasons of average to below average production from all those players. Lots of similarly hyped prospects have always amounted to nothing. Law ranks them low because that is what the indusrty values them at and they are valued that way because most wont pan out.

    In 2006 the Yanks and Sox being powerhouses along with the relative lack of parity is what made it so difficult for the Jays to compete. It is easier now and in the current landscape there is a much better chance the 2006-2008 team would make the playoffs now than then. JPR put together a good team

    Time will tell on the payroll – if the team continues to lose why should we imagine payroll can stay high? It didn’t in 2009 and it wont now either. They arent going to bleed money indefinitely waiting for the good team on paper to win and bring in revenue. Its already been one year and the next ones are critical for that.

    • Nick do the math. If in 2006 there was say 5 or 6 good teams fighting for 4 playoff spots vs potentially 11 for 5 spots in 2014, it’s pretty clear who has the tougher competition. Furthermore, with the unbalanced schedule the way it is, the Jays have to play 18 games against each opponent in the AL East in 2014. You can easily argue that all 4 of the Jays opponents in the East are playoff contenders. Contrast that to the other divisions where they have 3 expected good teams – so 2 good opponents each and 2 of inferior quality. That’s an extra 12 games for each of those teams vs inferior talent. In 2006 the Jays had the benefit of facing that inferior talent an extra 12 times because Baltimore lost 92 games and the Rays 101 games that year. In 2007 it was the same thing.

      Now if you want to talk about prospects, I looked over the list of the 2005-2009 drafts, there is a whopping total of 10 that are everyday regulars, if you can call them that, who are still playing at the major league level – Cecil Comp A Round – 2007, Rzepczynski – 5th Round 2007, and Farquhar 10th Round 2008, JPA – 1st Round 2008, Marisnick 3rd Round – 2009, Goins 4th Round – 2009, Loup – 9th Round 2009, Gomes – 10th Round 2009. So 10 guys out 228 players drafted in 5 years are still around in some form or another, none exactly stars. Not only does that reflect on the management at the time of the draft it also hinders the current management because that’s what they are left to work with. The Jays of JPR’s era drafted based on one, how cheap they were, two, how quickly they could get to the majors.

  96. Mariners are dangling Franklin. That’d be a nice pick up…..

  97. The Jays should fire AA and hire Masai Ujiri.


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