santanaheavens

All sorts of varying reports this… er… what time is it? Morning?

Anyway, all sorts of reports today about Ervin Santana signing with the Jays. Or maybe the Orioles. Or maybe someone else if a better deal comes along by 5 PM. Or… well… why don’t you lay down and I’ll fill you in…

It started this morning, at least according to my timeline, with tweets from Jon Morosi and Buster Olney, with Morosi tweeting that he’s in Dunedin today and that the Jays people he spoke to were optimistic about their chances to sign Santana, while Olney added that the Jays have played their hand extremely well if they land him, “and they’re working on it.”

MLBTR then went whole hog, passing along a tweet from Dionisio Soldevila of ESPN Deportes, who said that the team and Santana had agreed on a one-year deal would pay him $14-million. Not so fast, though, tweeted Joel Sherman of the New York Post, saying that the deal was being worked on, but wasn’t done. Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes then added that Santana indeed has a $14-million offer from the Jays and will sign it… if he doesn’t get a better one by 5 PM. But then, in a piece at ESPNDeportes.com also added that a deal from the Orioles is on the table: a $13-million one with performance incentives — something the Jays won’t do.

About this I will be blunt (if a bit wordy): Santana is no great shakes, though I tend to believe that the awful bump in his road that was 2012 likely happened because he was hurt, that the home run issues at Rogers Centre are overstated, and that the injury concerns aren’t such a big deal on a one-year contract. And if the Jays don’t sign him, and it’s because of some horseshit self-imposed rule from Anthopoulos that only adds to the long list of natural handcuffs this team has, you can pretty much fire him and Beeston and anyone else in this dumb organization who supports that, as far as I’m concerned. Especially if Santana goes to Baltimore along with Ubaldo Jimenez.

Sadly we can’t call for firing ownershp (what are we, Islanders fans?).

Of course, that may well be all of last night’s sweet delicious booze still talking (and I really did have a great time at the Press Club on Dundas, hearing about Paul Bako!), but seriously, if he wants incentives that might pay him more, give him the damn incentives or up your offer until he thinks it’s better. Whatever fear you have of a repeat of the Frank Thomas debacle or some kind of poisonous clubhouse atmosphere where a guy only goes around looking out for number one, um… is it really worth not adding the strong potential of two or three damn wins to your final win total over? Be fucking serious, man. Don’t give us another Yu Darvish gut-punch here, for fuck sakes.

We’ll keep updating this post as the story develops…

2:50 PM Update

Lots of pessimism out there, and for good reason, I guess, given that it currently looks like the Jays might actually be shockingly-dumbly willing to fall on their own sword on this one. That may change still, of course, but for now here’s one more thing to add to the ol’ shit gumbo, via Max Wildstein of Outside Pitch:

In his next tweet he goes further:

OK. That’s cool, Jays. Not sure why anyone should give a shit about this team, since you obviously don’t, but… whatever, it’s just baseball, right? Pffft. Let’s just smell some fake grass and melt on some plastic seats and pay $12 for a fucking beer and not care about the results. There’s a winning fucking marketing pitch for ya! I have all kinds of other gems too, in that vein. Call me! Oh… right! You already did ask me (and a bunch of other bloggers/Twitterati, or something?) to help with your social media nights, which… is bizarre, to say the least. Fittingly Cracker Jack, though, I guess.

Of course, we probably shouldn’t get too worked up about Wildstein, despite the following he has on Twitter. He did tweet earlier that a “source” (the internet?) was telling him that Santana had signed with the Jays, and also “corrected” folks thinking Santana’s self-imposed deadline is 5 PM by telling them it’s 4 PM, even though obviously that’s just because MLBTR said so, and they operate on Central Time, and the original source said 5 PM ET. So… let’s maybe stop retweeting him, eh Griff?

4:35 PM Update

Does this mean anything? Not really — no more than the fact that on Twitter we’ve been following tweets Ervin Santana is favouriting (like this one asking Jays fans to RT if they want him to sign here, or this one congratulating him on trolling both Jays and Orioles fans by following a whole bunch of both), or the fact that I’m somehow trending in Canada (ahead of #pooped!) at the time of this writing [blows on fingers, scratches lapel]– but this is somewhat interesting nonetheless: according to a tweet from Jon Morosi, Jose Bautista has followed Ervin Santana’s suit and is no longer represented by Bean Stringfellow. Both pitchers followed agent Jay Alou, who resigned from his position as Head of Latin Baseball at Stringfellow’s Proformance agency this week.

Forgive me for being the tiniest bit optimistic for a second, but you’d have to think Jose has had some kind of contact with Ervin through all of this. And we’d heard stories earlier in the off-season about Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion lobbying the Jays to sign their friend. So… I don’t know… is it that outlandish to think that maybe this is where he wanted to be all along, and the whole Orioles involvement and self-imposed deadline thing is just a way to extract as much as he can from the Jays before grudgingly signing on their terms? I’d sure like to fucking think so, but it’s still pretty hard to at the moment.

5:05 PM Update

Oh fuck right off. According to a tweet from Jon Morosi… well… this:

So… there’s that.

5:12 PM Update

There’s also this: Roch Kubatko of the Orioles’ broadcaster, MASN, tweets that both the Jays and Orioles have similar offers, around $14.1-million on the table. And then he lays this on us:

Well that was a waste of an afternoon, huh?

5:23 PM Update

So this is a little bit interesting. Remember two updates ago when I mentioned the stuff about the relationship between Bautista and Santana? Seems like it might be a thing. Here’s Jose in Jon Morosi’s serendipitously-timed big picture piece on the Jays at Fox Sports:

“It’s not the same players: We’re missing Josh Johnson, who was supposed to be a big key to our rotation,” Toronto right fielder Jose Bautista said of the 2013-2014 comparison. “One-fifth of your rotation shouldn’t be overlooked. That’s important. That’s why it’s so important that we add (Santana).”

Morosi adds that Bautista has been following the Santana negotiations closely, and throws us this bone, too: “if the Jays spend $14 million on a one-year deal for him, as they would like to do, they will buy a chance to dream again.”

As for the Bautista stuff, I’m not sure how comfortable we should be about a player openly campaigning to the media for the team to sign his friend — especially a player who might have genuine sway — but… I mean… he’s not wrong. Ryan Oakley, as he often does, hits the nail on the head:

Yep.

6:55 PM Update

Enrique Rojas confirms that the Jays and the Orioles are indeed involved here, and that offers are on the table, though he also tells us that a couple other teams are now sniffing around as well. I’d embed the tweet, but it pretty much just says that, only in Spanish.

So… yeah. Doesn’t really change anything, but there’s some news-ish for ya.

Comments (514)

  1. Stay classy, Baltimore.

  2. Let’s see what happens when the regular season starts. IIRC the Jays won the World Series last November.

  3. One would think our contingent of Dominicans would make up for a small amount of money… I would expect him to sign here for that matter.

    On a side note I would imagine AA and the beest have all the job security they could possibly dream of. they are not going anywhere. Only way I can see this happen is if this season was a complete bomb

    • sad that we have to resort to having players calling or influencing decisions in competing for a players services over fucking baltimore

      • But it does lend credibilty to the point that AA and Beest have been drumming on for the last 5 years: it’s harder for the Jays to land FAs than it is for other teams.

    • Complete bomb kinda like last season? Only nothing much was done to improve the team when they had a chance because of self-imposed policies on contracts? That kinda bomb?

      • as easy as it is to blame AA and beeston. chances are if they had the money to spend they would have tried to improve the team.

        rogers posted a profit of 464 million last quarter.

        i get that its run as a separate entity, but they got the stadium and the content for next to nothing, and refuse to commit fully to building a winner.

        The only good news is that this offseason is so bad, that if the jays do bomb , fans will turn on the team, and maybe rogers will get the fucking hint

    • I would hope that would be the case with the Dominicans chipping in on the persuading.

      DC – it happens all the time from what I understand, especially if everything else is pretty much equal as it is being reported in this case.

      Grantland did an interesting article on how little movement there has been at the GM level the last few years worth a read. I agree with you that he’s probably not going anywhere despite what a lot of the media pundits would have you believe.

  4. Since this “deadline” isn’t anything official, it would be funny (in a sadistic way) if Santana doesn’t decide either way today.

  5. Gotta give Stoeten his props for being the top trend on twitter ( ahead of #pooped)
    You’ve come a long way.
    Must be saying something right.

  6. TEN MORE MINUTES….

  7. Jays Talk – Random Pitch Generator – so earnest, so awesome!

  8. Win or lose the Santanathon….gotta love the way Hutch is pitching. Its not the end of the world if we do not sign Santana. We have depth and the 5ths starter will rise to the top before Spring Training ends.

    • Rogers too, actually, not been looking too bad at all.

    • Yes Happless. Rogers has the chance to be a number 2-3 if he ever harnesses that sinker and consistancy. I saw one game he was looking like John Lackey in his prime. The possibilities for a surprise starter is much greater than any time in recent memory. No more making gold out of dead wood.

      • Doesn’t really only have those two pitches? There aren’t too many starters (nevermind 2-3′s) who only have two pitches. He could develop into a valuable swingman. Which I’m sure is every ball players dream, to come into the third inning when your team is down 4-5 runs…

      • Greg you do have a point there. Is he working on adding a third pitch like changeup? I guess the game I saw last season where his sinker was devastating colored my glasses pink. Agreed about him being a great swing man. If they sign Santana their bullpen will be so deep this year regardless of injuries or someone having a bad year. They will have Wagner and others in AAA waiting should there be a need.

        • Esmil does have a changeup, which he’s been throwing semi-regularly this spring. He also has a great slider that he could use a lot more efffectively, and his curveball is probably his best change-of-pace pitch right now. He’s probably got another year or so of full-time starting before he’s an upper-echelon guy, but he’s kind of where Morrow was in 2010, just without the injuries. I’d say his talent ceiling is somewhat lower, but because of how he is when his sinker is working great, I don’t think it’s much lower.

  9. 5pm EST, 4pm CST, 3pm MST… Whats the fuckin’ hold up?

  10. Glass half empty piece but how else can you look at a cup full of piss?

  11. Jesus tell me what happened so I can move on with my day.

    • See you think you’ll be moving on, but in reality you’ll get so worked up by the rejection, or so thrilled by the selection, that you’ll be sitting here for hours commenting.

  12. Aaaaaaannndddd Morosi says it might be days, Stupid Garbage.

  13. I guess there is no deadline and it might take days? WTF

  14. Oh for fuck sakes.

  15. WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MAKING A DECISION AT 5PM!?!?!?!

  16. Back to our regularly scheduled programming suckers!

  17. of course.

  18. Got my jimmies all rustled for fucking nothing.

    Now theyre rustled for different reasons.

  19. #pooped :(

  20. The deadline was just to put pressure on interested teams to up their offer. I’m sure it’ll take a few days for Santana and Baltimore to finalize everything.

  21. Santana…unfollowed! Bitch.

  22. I doubt this will come as a surprise:

    @jonmorosi: Source: Ervin Santana has not set a deadline to make a decision and is prepared to wait “days” before signing with club.

    • and maybe a team comes out of the woodwork with a 2nd or 3rd guaranteed year too.

      • Which is why AA shouldn’t give him the chance to do so. $14 million, take it or leave it.

        • I think you’d need to go with your absolute best offer to use that strategy. Maybe $14 million is the most the Jays are willing to offer. Who knows? If it was me and I knew the Orioles were offering the same, I’d top that up by a couple of million and then say that’s all there is. Then again, maybe with AA being the value whore that he is, who is to say they haven’t followed your advice and given them a deadline? Guess it’s impossible to know with these things.

          • So if incentives are the problem, why don’t they offer him another 5M if he gets 30 wins. Seriously, if the money’s really an issue, there’s so much they could do to avoid having to pay the amount (i.e. sit him in September if he gets close). Yes, that would be pretty stupid, too, but really, given his spotty record, I’d rather they give him an incentive-laden deal than guaranteed money.

  23. This is like a double reverse trolling job by Morosi, he’s stating something that makes sense and could very well be true BUT he is still pissing off fans. Which is unlike his normal reporting which just makes you shake your head.

  24. can I just set my clock ahead to whatever time Santana signs?

  25. Well pull up a chair lads! Its going to be a long 3 weeks to opening day. Santanathon

  26. Funny how he didn’t announce that UNTIL the deadline.

    AA needs to not let himself be jerked aroind. $14 million, you have 30 minutes.

    If he – as some suggest here – simply has a price that he won’t go above and “what’s wrong with that?” Then there is no benefit whatsoever togiving him this time.

    My guess is he won’t be able to say no if we give him an ultimatum. And if he thinks he can do better, good luck to him and we’ll move on.

    • This guy’s straight out weird. Earlier today he was calling AA an albatross because he wasn’t in on Santana. Now he wants to strong arm him. I suspect AA is closer to the situation than weirdo here and knows better how to play it.

  27. Ffs. Just get Jose to text him and tell him if he comes here he’s allowed to join the Lo Viste brigade. (As long as Boni doesn’t mind)

  28. I can’t even remember if Santana was good orioles fans mock the jays as losers.

    But based on current lineups 85-90 gets you the al east

  29. John Lott ‏@LottOnBaseball 8m
    AA has sent Santana the complete boxed set of The Wire. The O’s are sending him a collage of Rob Ford clips. This could indeed take days.

  30. JoeyBats:

    “if the Jays spend $14 million on a one-year deal for him, as they would like to do, they will buy a chance to dream again.”

  31. We need to get Drake on this, give Ervin a call and make it happen. Apparently thats what it takes.

  32. Well that was a lot of shitty reporting for one ~7 hour span.

  33. AA has indicated he wished he had gone further with his bid to get Chapman a few years ago , hopefully he won’t make the same mistake again. Will ES make a big difference to the team and the eventual outcome , not so sure but one thing is for sure it will keep many Blue Jays fans engaged with the team will sell more tics and will give the feeling of hope fir the season starting rather than a feeling of doom that many will have if AA does not sign him

    • And isn’t the theory: when you think you are on the verge of really contending you add that extra piece? The upgrade of Santana over happ, Rogers, Redmond, drabek is big, no question. Now you can spot start those guys when morrow misses a few starts.

      I hate to belabour this when it appears it could go on for days (apparently), but….

  34. I don’t like to harp on the media cause, well, they get harped on enough without me, but how in the fuck did it last that long before they found out there was no deadline? I mean, it’s not like it’s a strategic thing, since there wasn’t any deadline. It seems to me you could have contacted any higher up person with the Jays, Orioles or Santana’s camp and got that cleared up.
    Unless…Santana gave the Jays a “deadline” and got called on his bluff.
    I don’t know. Seems fucked up anyway.

    • I think we all sense that there is a deadline. I’d say that’s about a whole bunch of throws to someone other than his dad before four starts post Opening Day.

  35. You either want it or you don’t. This game of chicken is embarrassing to watch.

    • Except in this case ‘it’ sounds like it’s the most money possible, which is absolutely his right. The only ones who should be embarrassed are all the insiders whiffing on so many things involving this situation. Oh and Griff for pretending that some snot nosed kid was a legitimate source. They can’t all be Chris Cotillo.

  36. I’m not usually reactionary or pessimistic about the Jays, but I am so damn ready to be pissed off here.

  37. It’s possible Bautista isn’t campaigning for the Jays to sign Santana but instead he’s been given the green light by the brass to campaign publicly fr Santana to come here. Yeah, he could just use the phone and call him, but he’s probably done that and maybe there’s some persuasive value in going public with the pitch.

    • or could be because he doesn’t want to piss away yet another year of his prime on a team that won’t contend because of Beeston’s ridiciulous one man war against salary-escalation. His one preoccupation since he was Pres of MLB. Give it up, all the posturing you do. Paul, is vaporized in an instant by the Cano and Fielder deals in the world.

  38. Wheres the johnson money? Thats the 14 there now sweetrn the pot. Monry will be there at the deadline if you are winning.

    • Had a quick look at Cot’s because it’s been bothering me too.

      Just the raises for Buehrle (11-18MM) and Reyes (10-16 MM) alone
      almost make up for the JJ salary that they won’t be paying (13.75 MM).

      But raises for the whole team (or most of them) totals roughly 29 MM.
      That includes the 3MM that they’re not paying JPA but are paying Navarro.

  39. Media can go fuck right off. This is like Darvish all over again. Bunch of nitwits all scrambling over each other for the big scoop, unafraid to publish whatever whisper they hear as fact and probably pivoting off each other until the story the average joe hears doesn’t match reality in the least. Irresponsible and unprofessional is what I call it.

    And I will be furious if Santana signs with the fucking Orioles – especially if it’s some asinine reason like being the only club in the league who won’t offer incentives when the situation calls for it, just like their policy of not adding player options or opt-outs, or not going past 5 years on any deal, which pretty much puts them back in the 1980′s as far as the economics of baseball go and totally out of the game when it comes to bringing in quality talent.

  40. Sounds like if we don’t get him because of a small bit of cash, it could be the straw that broke the camel’s back with JBau. He’ll probably ask to be traded. Good on him. Us fans don’t want this shit from the team and the players shouldn’t either.

    • You’re right. I remember earlier (I believe after all of last years signings) how the brass and AA had made a personal promise to Bautista that they would do their best to improve the team. Don’t know what’s all true though.

      If they don’t sign Santana, they’re not just letting down the fans.

    • Since the end of 2012 they’ve acquired Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes, Bonifacio, Izturis, Cabrera, and then the fucking Cy Young winner on top of that, all (supposed) quality players to help the team win, while taking on a top 10 payroll.

      But now if they don’t sign a guy with the ceiling of a solid #3 and the abyssal floor of a below-replacement-level homer-happy shitshow, with a ticking time bomb in his elbow, Bautista is justified to demand a trade?

      • Agreed 100% Pecan.

        I like Bats but “if” he’s pouting, and “if” I were GM I’d get the coffee on, get the 29 GM Rolodex out and start calling on young contollable pitching.

  41. I´m starting to think about that tweet at 11 AM which stated the Jays/Santana had a reached an agreement. So, just how close were they ?? Or maybe that guy jumped the gun when reporting it ?

  42. Im kind of intrigued by the Jbats comments regarding having to get santana. Could that mean the players are pissed with jays management/ownership for not reinvesting the JJ money? They still have to go out and do their jobs but even if they are having doubts about the direction of the team, its not a good thing, thats for sure.

    • Could be they’re all amazed at what a complete asshole your are. Probably not though. Like most of us, your extreme asshole personality probably bores them as well.

    • I agree that most players could/should be a tad frustrated with the ownership

  43. This reminds me of the Dickey trade. IIRC reports of a deal being done came out over the weekend, wasn’t confirmed until after the weekend. Wilner tweeted something this morning mentioning that even if it is a done deal that he wouldn’t be surprised to see the announcement delayed until Monday because according to him #theydothat

  44. With absolutely no rationale beyond ‘where there’s smoke there’s fire’ I believe he is/will be a Jay. Was too many confirmations first thing this morning that the deal was done from what seem, on the surface at least, to be legit sources.

    • The problem, I think, is that the Jays will have to beat Baltimore’s offer. I’m guessing but I think he or anyone else would rather stay in the US. Unless his friends in TO can sway him that way but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have friends in Baltimore doing the same thing.

    • I’m as pessimistic as any jays fan but I think the Jays have him. The Bautista connection, the certainty-then pullback from reports, big Erv’s coy twitter favourites, and Wilner’s tweet that Jays like to make announcements on off-days all seem to hint that the deal’s done. Hope I’m right – jays need the depth.

      • I think it’s close to done as well. While the O’s have an offer with incentives, we have a slightly higher guaranteed contract, and we have a plethora of Dominican players for Santana to joke around with.

  45. Fuck Santana. And fuck Bautista if he demands a trade if we don’t get Santana. Could probably turn him into a great pitcher anyway.

    I’d rather have players who are happy to play for the Blue.
    And don’t give me the shit “he deserves to play on a winner”. Greats like Sandberg, Edgar Martinez, Griffey Jr, Biggio, and Bagwell all were greats, they didn’t demand trades to play for a better team.

    The Jays don’t owe Bautista anything. If anything he should work twice as hard to try and make Toronto a winner. It’s not like Toronto are paupers at the table. They are spending 135 million this year. Suck it up and win.

    • FtS, I get the frustration but we shouldn’t take it out on Bautista. The more plausible read is that he’s psyched that Santana might join the club and he’s doing what he can to make that happen. If anything, Bautista HAS been working twice a hard at making TO a winner. All the Jays, Bautista included, I would think are deadly serious about doing well this season, given the last one. After all, they were the ones who were embarrassed the most about how badly we did. Whether they will succeed of course is another question but I for one am not ready yet to question Bautista’s commitment, or any of the Jays’ commitment at this point.

    • Garbage. This isn’t tennis; Bautista can’t pitch every 5th day. He signed a team friendly K on the representation the team would do what it takes to be a winner. To nickel and dime Santana is embarrassing. He’s literally falling into the teams lap.

      • He certainly did not sign a team friendly contract on the representation the team would do what it had to to build a winner. He was coming off one of the most unbelievable breakout seasons of all time and signed a safe contract on the chance he turned back into a utility player. There was a lot of debate on this very website about whether or not the contract was a smart move.
        He’s a great player and I love his story, but let’s not play revisionist history.

        • The contract was (and is) fair to both parties given that they both understood the risk that JB’s breakout season could have been an aberration.

          • I might add that AA and the team got screwed royally following the same idea with Romero. His rise to elite pitcher was followed by a fair contract which was followed by a huge thud.

    • Yes, griffey left Seattle on such great terms.

    • Well said.

  46. Not sure I get the nickel and dime critique. So far the Jays are offering a nickel, the O’s are offering a nickel and maybe a dime, AND NO OTHER TEAM is offering anything at all. If the market could speak, it would be saying that Santana is worth no more than a nickel, maybe a dime. Santana looks to me like Esmil Rogers with a few more years of experience. Happy to have him on board but I’m not going to blow a gasket, demand that everyone in the front office be fired, tell Bautista he’s an asshole, and everything else people have been fumigating about in the last 12 hours.

  47. Oh, fer fuck’s sake – I’ve spent the last 4 hours at a (forced) family dinner – dying to find out what the decision was “at 5pm”.
    I race home like Mario Andretti on meth, fly downstairs to the computer – only the find out that it’s still “pondering offers. Could take days”.
    Fer fuck’s sake…this is Darvish-esque.

  48. Ummm Stoeten when you wrote about Bautista and Santana you wrote “both pitchers”

  49. Whats wrong if Jose openly campaigns to help improve his team. I don’t get it. They don’t have to agree, but if its something the organization is on board with just on their own $ and terms theres nothing wrong with it.

    • The player’s only job is to contribute as best he can to the team that the front office puts together. No need for this acting GM bullshit.

      • Fuck – if I’m him, at his age, I’d say it. I’ll bet just about everyone on the team is thinking the same thing. He’s in a unique position to open his mouth about it – good on him. He clearly wants to win here with Toronto.

        • I’d kill to see JB, EE and Reyes win something. I mean if it isn’t now? Next crew with any chance likely won’t include those guys. Not saying this year is their only change, but next 2-3 seasons max.

      • no.

        you have a player that wants to win. he said nothing disrespectful or ridiculous.

        • Maybe it’s just me, but it sounds like he’s pretty much publicly dissing Hutchison, Rogers, Happ, Redmond and co. and saying “you’re shit and not good enough to be the 5th starter” despite the first two looking pretty decent this spring (especially Hutch).

          It just rubs me the wrong way.

  50. Lmao. The U.S. Is past the point of bouncing back. You’re in so much debt that by the time the economy bounces back, Santana will be a senior citizen and the United States will be re-named China. Dummy

  51. What a clusterfuck.

  52. Santana is a douche, Jays put up 14 m first. Probably thinks another park would be better for him when he hits FA next year. Balitmore, great park, crappy city. Toronto, great city, park with no soul.

    • No he’s not. This isn’t a Craigslist ad, for fucks sakes. He’s trying to get maximum value for his labour, because of course he is.

  53. I’m tired of checking Twitter every ten minutes and never finding any updates. Ervin, you’re giving me text neck! Make a decision already (Toronto please) but if you’re thinking Baltimore, please keep thinking (and maybe change your mind.)

  54. Dear Ervin,
    You should clearly choose Toronto. The ladies in Baltimore are sloppy and after your money. The ladies in Toronto are hot, can out drink you and are only out for a good time.
    Please choose accordingly.
    P.S. Blue is a boy’s color, orange is a girl’s colour. Think about that for a second.

  55. Sorry for the repeated posts. I’m sitting her thinking about how Toronto could sweeten the pot with adding more money.
    I guess the question I’m wondering is, what would you prefer? One year at 15 million or two year at 25?

  56. We’re really close to another 2nd highest bid on a free agent

  57. round and round and round we go!

  58. Has Santana signed yet? Or is he still wanting to feel all the love from all those teams who didn’t want to give him the big bucks long contract. This is a clusterfuck and I wish we were out of it. Erwin Santana is not all that wonderful.

    • I think your annoyance is misdirected. It’s the media that made this a clusterfuck by making shit up and misreporting things. Don’t blame the player – he’s doing exactly what he should be doing, trying to make himself as much money as possible.

      Plus – is the team going to be better with Santana? Yes. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think I can suffer through another season of Aaron Laffeys and Wongs doing spot starts.

      • “is the team going to be better with Santana? Yes.”

        I really don’t think it’s as cut-and-dry as many seem to regard. People like to complain about Morrow, Hutch, etc. being injury risks, but apparently the Jays should throw money at a guy who’s thrown on average 37% (!) sliders over the past 5 years, and whose medicals, by all accounts, are pretty worrisome.

        Not to mention he was downright terrible in 2012, and doesn’t have the #1/#2 upside of Jiminez.

      • Look the rotation was a joke last year. I’m not arguing with you. But at the same time I’m not on the Erwin Santana train because I’m really not convinced he’s a reliable replacement and I don’t want to see money spent on another iffy pitcher. And at this stage of the off-season I have to think it’s more than the draft pick that’s hanging round his neck. If they won’t sign him because there is some asinine self-inflicted ‘rule’ in their heads I’ll be as mad as anyone else. But I think it’s more likely they have serious questions about his health and that’s what’s holding them back.

        • Exactly. I’m not convinced the Jays are all that desperate for Santana or they’d have got him months ago. They weighed risk vs. reward, offered what they thought he was worth, if he accepts, great, if not they have capable pitchers waiting in the wings to step in.

          • Durable depth with upside is always good. That’s what makes him an upgrade/ Plus its a one year deal. This is the opportunity AA has been waiting for.

            • Yeah, totally… You do this deal if you’re AA, even 20 mil / 1 yr. Santana is obviously confident about how he feels, the medical rumors could be BS or overstated.

              Even if his arm explodes in July, you bring up the next best guy that would have been your #5 without Santana. Seriously, if the Jays don’t somehow acquire a Santana-like arm, you just know it’s going to be Scrub City / Waiver Town doing spot starts in the summer again. Fuck that.

  59. Melkman looks awesome this spring.

    • Sure does. The gf even noticed it this weekend, which just goes to how how bad he looked last year. I’m becoming increasingly optimistic about things.

  60. So the game is on radio today.
    I’ve got the choice of listening to the game from my TV or my computer because the only radio I got is in my car.
    If ya woulda told me that, years ago…
    I’m sure there’s some people reading this saying to themselves “yeah what’s your point?”
    Fuck I’m old.

  61. I’ve been thinking that AA should offer a two year deal if he needs to. Santana might balk at it, wanting to make another run at a big contract next year. But at this point he has to be nervous about his long term earning potential — esp. if he were to get injured this year. I don’t think he’d leave a second year and another $12-14 mil on the table. And if that’s what you need to do to get him, then so be it. If someone said at the start of the off season that AA would get Santana for 2 years / $25-28 mil there’d be a big Ninja circle jerk love in. AA may not need to go 2 years at this point, but it would hardly be an overpay. And with all the question marks in the rotation, having him in the mix for next year is not a problem. And if he pitches well, or even adequately with no injury, the second year would be a very traceable commodity.

    But I got really wasted last night watching a Zeppelin cover band, so what do I know.

    • Hmm, it’s an idea, but I don’t think Santana has that much leverage here. The O’s already got Jiminez, so they’re probably not DYING to get him. Doesn’t seem like anyone else is interested, and two years seems way too risky for AA’s taste.

      If all goes well Stroman should be in the rotation in 2015, and hopefully a couple of the plethora of back-end starters they already have will have established themselves as cheaper but just as viable options. I’m really optimistic about Hutchison, I want to see him get a chance to prove himself.

  62. Diaz is off he board, going to the Cards as per mlbtr.

  63. Fuck boys!

    The Bad News Bears is on………… Old school with that grumpy prick Walter Matthau.

  64. For the life of me, I can’t figure out how to watch the preseason games free on mlb.tv.
    Any help?

  65. Looks like we found our second baseman of the future. Who needs drew.
    # sarcasm

  66. Medlen injury…. Could have a late entry into the Santana sweepstakes.

  67. Your life is so full. Dick face

  68. Grandpa bought seats and living in your moms basement trolling Blue Jay sites must be a full filling life

  69. Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Zero factual information and you’re making a fool of yourself. And what does grandpa having season tickets got to do with anything? Little ignorant punk

    • Can everyone stop feeding this fucking troll? You know he gets off on it!!

      And, hey troll, you better show you fucking face up for ridicule if and when Blue Jays sign “Santa”

      Bullshit you did not go to Stndfrd, perhaps to their stupdi school?

  70. Why don’t the Jays give Santana and Drew heavy one year deals (bump Santana offer to 16-17 mil)…It will cost us a #2 & #3….Then when both walk next year – we will get a pair of 1st rounders

    • Theyre unlikely to decline QOs after the way this offseason played out for them, unless they have monster seasons. So we get them at 15 mil or so next year which i suppose might be alright depending on how their year goes

  71. So how about the team we currently have?

    The projected opening day lineup all seem to be finding their timing except Reyes who I’m a little concerned about. He’s currently hitting .150/.190 and is about the only base stealing threat we have. “It’s just spring training” is a common argument but Reyes’ worst ST he went .278/.328 and went .281/.317 in his 2011 MVP season.

    Starting pitching issues aside, is Reyes’ early struggles an issue at this point?

  72. Stnadford is a godo school!

  73. Every time I come back & read the header I think for a sec that…oh.

  74. At this stage, signing JJ would’ve been a better idea for the same price. Santana looks to be hoping that a team, any team, will step up, and as option 1f) sign with the Jays.

    At least you know what you had/or needed to have worked on with JJ. And like many players, a rebound season is needed for him, and many of last year’s roster still around, to be any further ahead this year anyways.

    Given this reluctance, I can see Santana pout his way though the season, throwing just enough to stay injury free, but basically hoping some other team takes a flier on him next offseason or at the trade deadline.

    • That’s dumb, you would imagine he would want to pitch his arm out to prove the doubters wrong and get a multi year deal

      • Then he’d take the Jays deal as is and not, as the first order of business seems to be, call around to see if there are other takers with a salary range in the ball park. That includes a team within the same division, no less which takes the argument about having him wanting an easier schedule to prove himself, out the window.

    • The problem with the Jays and Josh Johnson is that Johnson is almost guaranteed to look better than Santana would in the Skydome, because Johnson is pitching at the cavernous Petco Park, and he’s also pitching against the NL West, which, traditionally, has not been very good. If you reverse the two you might end up with reversed numbers.

  75. You analysis, is about as good as the Blue Jays moment you chose for you online handle, second rate. You don’t know Santana’s inventions.

  76. I think the best reason to get Santana would be to ensure that the team is going to be calling up better players when someone hits the DL almost inevitably based on the past few seasons.

    The best reason to pass is if the team is actually holding back and if the team falls flat again, they will be selling at the deadline. The fifth starter is hardly needed for the first month so the depth is somewhat wasted if you have to turn around and dump Santana three months after that.

    This could be a PR disaster whether the Jays sign Santana or not. The only way it isn’t is if they sign him and he does well or he signs with another team and bombs/ gets injured. I don’t envy GM AA for having to make a decision on this player.

  77. I think his decision may be already made. I suspect he thought he was getting him and then was told there were other teams in the mix. That’s the kind of negotiating ploy that can turn a potential buyer right off.

  78. way to talk trash between the 2 teams that may as well finish last and 2nd last in the division. I’m not sure how your think your O’s will be in the playoffs. This is E Santana we’re talking about here….

    • O’s have potential to be better than Yankees this year. Jays also do.

      As I see either they’re cursed or some breaks will fall there way. Team is better than they played last year

  79. Dickey pitched well again today. He also scored huge points on the sarcasm meter.

    The defense has looked improved.

    Kratz looks like a steal for Brad “They put a bullet in the head of the wrong” Lincoln.

    Sierra looks like he’s got the stick to be a good platoon for KittenFace.

    JBau is JBau, has mashed, is mashing, will mash.

    Edwin just got a WalMart bulk load of parrot feed.

    Reyes, Melky and Kid Dynamite are all going to get 180+ knocks.

    Things are looking up. Regardless of how Santana shakes, the Jays in ’14 are an underrated offensive machine.

    And Fuck the Orioles.

  80. From what I just read, the Twins are the now in the fray for Santana.
    This ain’t gonna end well for our boys. I speak as one who has been thoroughly bummed this off-season…..one might say I’ve been Darvish’ed. (which should be an adjective/adverb in modern English)

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24475143/twins-enter-fray-but-jays-and-orioles-may-still-lead-the-ervin-derby

  81. Rosenthal’s latest is that the Orioles and Twins have offered three-year deals (3/27 and 3/33 respectively), but that Santana seems to prefer a one-year deal still (unless he gets something like 4/50) which the Jays and Orioles are offering. He seems to hint that the Jays lead because of the connections Santana has to the Jays clubhouse.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/santana-has-connection-to-blue-jays-but-they-re-no-lock-030914

  82. By far the coolest thing from the whole Ken R. article. I really hope, for the players sake, that we get him.

    “Ervin Santana’s friends on the Toronto Blue Jays texted a photo to his cell phone, adding to their intense lobbying effort to persuade the free-agent right-hander to join their team.

    The photo was of Jays players holding a poster.

    “Come to Toronto,” the poster said.

    The story, as related by a source, reflects the advantage that the Jays hold over other clubs in the recruitment of Santana. Six players on the Jays’ projected 25-man roster hail from Santana’s native Dominican Republic. Three of those players — right fielder Jose Bautista, shortstop Jose Reyes and first baseman Edwin Encarnacion — are among the team’s biggest stars.”

    • Sorry – I’m not looking at it. I’m not hearing it. I’m not going to believe it.
      Not. Not. Not. Not.

      As said…I am thoroughly and completely Darvish’d in regards to believing media reports and speculation.
      But I am peeking through my fingers.

      • The feverish checking of Twitter does wreak a bit of darvish, doesn’t it?
        Those were dark days…

  83. About Santana’s Latin Pals texting him thing. this isn’t really the venue and I’ve been waiting for the right Stoeten post, but I very recently ran into a guy whom I don’t know very well, but is Latino and has played baseball. He knows I love the Jays. This is what he said: one thing the organization has to put a stop to is the division in the clubhouse between the Latino players and the American players. He said it’s very obvious on the bench where the Latinos sit together and talk Spanish and the Americans sit together and talk English. He said he thought management should issue a declaration that players on the bench all speak English. He knows a lot of Latino Jays fans in TO who all think the same way. They believe it’s having a deleterious effect on the team. Any Latino fans on this board who can chime in here for or against?

    Now I know how Stoeten feels about ‘clubhouse chemistry’. But this is not a discussion point that I brought up with the guy. (I was basically talking about how happy I was that JPA had been tossed and the other thing had not occurred to me at all either during the season or now.) He brought this up and it was something that sincerely worried him.

    • I highly, highly doubt that you’d see anything much different in any of the 29 other major league clubhouses. People form groups, and a common language is usually a pretty strong influence on what those groups end up being.

      Also there is no way for you, me, your friend, or anyone else to know whether those groups are having any kind of effect (negative or positive) on the on field performance of the team.

      • I get that. I’m just reporting. And as I’ve said, it wasn’t something that concerned me at all at any part of last season. But if it was the same on the other teams I would expect the guy to know that. He’s been around baseball a little.

        • yeah it’s kind of stupid, i mean would the yankees care that kuroda, tanaka and ichiro are obviously gonna be BFF’s going forward?

      • Yep, this is silliness.

        • This is the first time (obviously has probably come up in the past but not to my eyes lol) I’ve seen someone who actually played say that. I’ve been on countless teams (granted not at high levels, but social interactions seem similar to me in many group activities in life lol) and I always noticed things like that. I always saw it as a culture thing, nothing more. If I’m an English Second language guy, depending on my language skills do I wanna sit and talk to Bret Lawrie talking like a redbull crazed mad man and struggling to understand him (whether I like the dude or not) and then have him trying to undrstand my broken English? Or will I turn to Jose Reyes and start talking fluently? Anywhere there are semi-large groups of people kliqs form, and they don’t have to be because people don’t like eachother. I’ve never lived in Greektown or Chinatown but it isn’t because I hate Greeks and Chinese, but because I’m more comfortable within my own sphere

          • I agree that it’s natural to prefer to speak your own language rather than try to talk another language. But I assume the guy feels that the division is more marked than on other clubs.

    • I think it’s a non issue.

  84. Is it 5pm Saturday yet?

  85. If we’re to believe the reports about Santana’s medicals, it seems pretty crazy that he has the balls to turn down three year offers that are on the table. They make it sound like his elbow could expose any day. Pretty big gamble on his part to take a one year deal in the hopes that he signs for more after this season. Certainly works in our favour for signing him, but I’m pretty surprised he’s taking this approach to his contract.
    The medicals make him sound like he has Mercury’s Poisoning. Too Much Tuna.

  86. Please go away.

  87. new post time

  88. How have you not been banned yet?

    • I’ll second that: How have you not been banned yet?
      Oh wait, I’m asking the oarsman liar from Standford law. Why would I expect a straight answer: never mind a straight answer that was spelled correctly.

      • I suppose your dear granpa was deeply involved in your education? So you have him to thank for your spelling and lying and overall asshole attitude?
        PS Carl (with a “C”) was know for a lof things that someone of your low intellect and poor dispostion could not understand.

  89. I know you can’t put a no qualifying offer promise into a contract, but couldn’t the Jays have a say $25 million option on him with a really low buyout? They buy him out, no QO. Everybody’s happy?

    • Why would the Jays do that?

      • To make sure he signs here? They could probably guarantee getting him over Baltimore and probably for a bit cheaper. 13 million for 2014 with a .5 buyout on 2015, or something along those lines.

        • If it takes something funky like this to get him to feel good about not getting QO’d and to agree to sign, then sure, I guess.

          … But I don’t think he’d also take less money.

          I also wonder how the league would react to a deal that is clearly an attempt to circumvent the established system (flawed as that system may be).

          I dunno. Sure. whatever. I just hope this gets resolved one way or another soon.

        • Team options, even way out of the money like that, are team-friendly. That makes the contract ever so slightly worse.

    • Declining a team option doesn’t prevent the team from making a qualifying offer, though, so I’m not sure how that would impact the QO.

      • Because I didn’t know that. That’s how.

        • Fair enough! For the record, my comment wasn’t meant to be snarky, either… I just didn’t know if I was missing something there that would prevent the Jays from making the QO.

  90. santanna is on crack if he wants to go to baltimore

  91. He wants a one year deal or a two year deal averaging not less than 29 million

    He wants to at least match the total cash amount that will equal qo for this year and next year (assuming 15 mill qo next year )

    • How about a 5 year deal for $100 – million? Isn’t that where this started? What happened to Ervin wants to sign as fast as he can so he can get to camp on a 1 year contract? Whadda load of horse manure his agent fed the ESPN Desportes suckers and they report it like it’s gospel.

  92. Part of me misses the days of no Twitter, blogging (well, except for this site:), and all other means of Chatty Cathy style crystal ball shit because it really mostly just fucks with the fans minds and creates let’s downs not to drop any names but sounds like Don Moroni.

    Back in the day you mighta heard about a near pickup that’s it.

    This shit is worse than getting blue balls.

    • A flury of rumors and innuendo,the fanbase worked up into a froth,followed by 2 days of nothing. All of a sudden,after a rumored 5PM deadline.nobody has heard a thing.One minute everybody’s plugged in to their sources,now it’s a mystery.

      • Thank player agents for magically “leaking” stories and getting the fan base all in a tizzy. As long as their clients’ names are buzzing, they’re doing their jobs.

      • Love flies out the door, when money comes
        innuendo.
        Groucho

  93. How come most of the Orioles’ fans posts contain the worst spelling errors?
    Coincidence?….I don’t think so.

    • And you’re a piece of crap who doesn’t know the difference between a racist and someone who thinks Baltimore’s education system sucks. Btw, the Orioles are a good team with a proud history.

  94. Yeah, I guess that’s the new age style of the bizz.

    It works for agents and players, but I personally hate it.

    Like Ted Turner and Jane Fonda praying to God for a win-hate-it.

  95. So RADAR, join me in a giant fuck off to:

    Twitter

    Thanking God after crossing home plate when hitting a homerun

    Ionized necklaces

    Mike Wilner

    Aj Burnetts shaving cream prank

    Overzealous celebrating

    WAR

    And John Farrells c*nty disposition

  96. so basically…

    -lower your demands to 1 year so teams become re engaged in talks.

    -make rumours of a self imposed deadline to put the pressure on and start a bidding war

    -ignore self imposed deadline, shrug it off as a rumour

    -now that teams are re engaged, pin them against eachother and increase your demands.

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