Everybody panic!

Earlier today Jeff Shultz of the Atlanta Journal Constitution wrote about the Braves situation with Kris Medlen, who left yesterday’s game with a forearm strain and is undergoing an MRI with Tommy John fears looming. I wrote about this in the previous post, but for the sake of completeness here, to recap, on the possibility of Atlanta jumping into the chase for Ervin Santana, he figured “there’s probably no money left to bring in somebody from the outside now, and there’s no reason to believe the organization will change course in philosophy since they didn’t show any desire to spend in the winter.”

However, an hour later his colleague, David O’Brien, laid this on us:

Initially I didn’t think there was anything to the idea of the Braves pursuing him, but now with Beachy having more issues (he left today’s start against the Phillies after two innings due to biceps tightness), I’m hearing from a person connected to the  Royals that the Braves are making a run at the free agent. How serious that is, I don’t know yet.

Realistically, with Santana supposedly asking for at least $14 million in a one-year offer and with the Twins reportedly having a three-year offer of about $33 million on the table for Santana, I couldn’t see the Braves going $10 million over their budget to bring in a guy who’s been inconsistent in recent years and has had some elbow concerns of his own. But that was before Beachy left today’s game. Now, I think the Braves feel like they need to see if it’s possible to get a proven starter (and one who had a 3.24 ERA and 161 strikeouts in 211 innings last season for the Royals.

There could indeed be a legitimate issue with Beachy, which would really ratchet up the pressure on Atlanta to find some pitching. From an update in Schultz’s piece, he explained:

“I’ve seen the doctor; my ligament is fine. The biceps is a little too tight. It’s difficult to describe. When I went down in 2012 it was a stabbing sensation. Last year it was a fullness in the joint and (discomfort) shooting out all over.”

Asked if he thought he would be ready when the season opens in three weeks, he said, “We’ll see. We’ll see how it recovers.”

With so much money locked into this Braves team, it would be hard for them to sit idly by and not take this opportunity to grab a pitcher who could really help them. Because, y’know, presumably they’re an organization that actually gives a shit about winning and doing right by all that money they’ve committed and the people they spent it on. Weird, huh?

They’re also a team with unseemly corporate ownership, though, and we know how difficult it can getting budget approvals out of those soul-crushing enterprises or convincing them, apparently, how important winning is to a robust bottom line. So… who knows? But if you’re Santana, going to the National League for your pillow deal probably sounds pretty enticing.

Or maybe it doesn’t matter.

Drew gave us an excellent roundup on the situation this morning at Getting Blanked, nailing as he explained that “putting together a good season in terms of ERA and wins playing in front of a superlative defense in a pitcher’s park doesn’t pay like it used to.”

In other words, thanks to advances in analysis, maybe where he ends up trying to make his next paycheque isn’t as big a concern as it used to be. Then again, it’s probably more likely that it just shouldn’t be such a concern, though it often still is (Josh Johnson says hi).

There are a few people on Twitter saying that maybe Santana just doesn’t want to come here, but last night I tweeted why I tend to not think that’s the case. (Give me a follow when you click that, while you’re at it!). So… I don’t know… we continue to wait and see and hope to finally put this behind us, one way or the other (but hopefully the good way), and get on to some actual baseball stuff soon.

The number of excuses for not getting this deal done — or not getting it done before the Braves had reason to swoop in — continues to be fucking zero, though. So… there’s that.

Comments (231)

  1. Hopefully the jays get santana
    But if they don’t, is AA’s job in jeopardy, I would highly doubt it after reading this piece

    • I don’t even think they mentioned AA once in the article.
      Our ninja flies under the radar.

    • I realize a lot has changed in the last few years, but you guys realize that just five seasons ago, Roy Halladay was getting paid $14 million a year, right? Oh, but he was on a team-friendly contract, right? CC Sabathia was getting $15 million a year.

      It’s kind of mind-blowing how fast salaries have risen in baseball that the Orioles and Blue Jays are falling over themselves to give Ervin Santana more money than Sidney Crosby.

    • F Ervin f+%*ing Santana. Using the Jays as leverage one minute then jumping to the NL where he belongs. This guy isn’t a team player and has HORRIBLE hair and changeup.

      AA should tell him to piss off and earn 14 MILLION DOLLARS somewhere else.

  2. Here’s where spending a little more to lock someone in earlier makes sense: because injuries and lack of demand happen to push unexpected teams (Braves , Orioles) into the conversation.

    If the Orioles get Jimenez AND Santana, we may just have to retire the OriLOLs moniker forever, unless they both tank and we get to laugh at them. But good on that team for actually making an effort to improve this offseason, much like every team in the AL East not named the Blue Jays. Better health and luck are great, but AA identified the rotation as a need coming into the offseason, and as of yet has done nothing to address it.

    • i would argue the jays needed to upgrade 2b even more, but they did upgrade C, so they at least plugged one of three.

      Man why didnt they just sign haren or someone damn. And now we’re hoping Santana makes a damn decision like soon.

    • look, i’m as disappointed and confused by our offseason as anyone else.

      Its confusing to not continue down the path the team embarked on last year, in throwing caution (and prospects) to the wind in order to build a winner now.

      but its ridiculous to overlook the fact that the jays have a top 10 payroll, and have added significantly to their team, mostly last year.

      130 million dollar payroll is sufficient enough to build a winner. So saying things like ‘good on the orioles for wanting to improve their team’ is bullshit’ what the fuck have the orioles done outside of this year.

      • What a load of horseshit.

        • awww, we’ve been agreeing so much lately.

          What makes it horseshit? Their payroll isn’t currently a problem, what their payroll is spent on might be. There’s a lot of better teams than us, spending less.

          I just don’t think signing ubaldo and cruz makes the orioles any less of a joke, they have done significantly less than a lot of teams in recent years.

          • That big picture stuff is completely irrelevant here. They need marginal value, marginal value is sitting in their lap screaming to be signed. If they had a $500M payroll with the same team it would still be garbage that they aren’t making that extra push.

            Orioles are doing just fine and hardly a joke these days, except maybe for the physical business this winter. Still, I don’t get this stuff at all. They’ve built a great offence, spent on extensions for Jones and Markakis, found a gem in Davis, drafted and developed really well with Machado, Gausman, Bundy, et. al. Still could get more out of Wieters, even. Shit. Pitching is mostly garbage but they’ve found a way to make it work. Ubaldo signing was a coup.

            • there isn’t one thing you just wrote that I don’t agree with.

            • Reallly? ‘Marginal value’ is ‘screaming’ to be signed? Where? Who? All I see is a guy who claimed he was going to sign on Saturday to stir up some interest in a dead market and has been waiting ever since to see where the bidding will go. Nobody is ‘screaming to be signed’.

            • @Stoeten. You don’t have to answer to shareholders about losing money. The marginal value of a Santana signing for say 14M is speculative in terms of projected revenue increase (assuming tie to winning). If it doesn’t lead to revenue gains in the short term the front office will be held accountable especially if it results in losing money. They already bumped payroll significantly and won only 75 games.

          • look the orioles still project to be worse than us even with the Jiminez and Cruz signing, but with a Santana signing, that gap becomes almost negligible.

            If we sign sign Santana, we become on par with the yankees, but still worse than the rays, a solid 2b upgrade takes us to Rays territory. If it takes 30-40 extra million a year to do it, we should have done it, cause that means we’re a near lock for a wildcard, as opposed to now, fighting for the scraps.

            AA should have done a better job actually following through with the upgrades that would help this team.

            • At this point the Jays should sign santana especially since he may go to the orioles.

              Even an optimistic projection of the jays puts them fighting for a wild card spot, orioles should be there as well. its 4 point game.

      • “130 million dollar payroll is sufficient enough to build a winner”

        In aand of itself… sure. I men if end of 2012 me knew that the 2014 team would have a payroll of $130M, I’d be thrilled.

        In the context of this team though, it’s not.

    • O’s have jimenez

  3. Thanks again stoets for hitting the naill on the head again… Oh Tom Petty waiting is indeed the hardest part.

  4. Just posted this on the other one, but there’s no excuse to not raising their 14M offer to 16M. I read earlier today that they matched the Phillies’ 16M offer to Burnett. If they were going to spend 16M on Burnett, there’s no excuse to not spend 16M on Santana. It doesn’t matter that Burnett is arguably marginally better. They’re 1 year deals, and the goal is to upgrade for this 1 year.

  5. Ugh

  6. What AA SHOULD be doing to Ervin Santan right about now

  7. Take consolation in the fact that the Braves are also now owned by a big Corporation just like the Blue Jays which also cares more about stock prices then winning. If the Blue Jays were forced to compete against another team for the services of a player, you would actually want it to be the Atlanta Braves because their ownership cares about winning about as much as Rogers.

    • I think most of us are frustrated that its even open for a bidding war at this point.

      Jays should just offer a 1 year 16 million contract and get him in to camp asap.

      • agreed though my assumption is that’s what it would take/would’ve taken (as of Saturday) to land Santana…

        if Santana really only wants a 1 yr deal & it is b/w the Jays & Orioles, then I’m upset with AA/jays for not closing this deal…

        I suspect, however, as of today, there’s more to it then this…

        otoh, if on Saturday AA/jays had a chance to close the deal by guaranteeing $15-$16M, then imo a fail on AA’s part if Santana doesn’t sign with the jays…

      • And you know that he would have just accepted that how? A few days ago it was just offer him the 14 which they apparently did. I think we have the right guys doing the bargaining.

  8. Santana to the Braves, Twins, Jays, O’s:

  9. “The number of excuses for not getting this deal done — or not getting it done before the Braves had reason to swoop in — continues to be fucking zero, though. So… there’s that.”

    There’s that indeed.
    Make it rain, Alex.

  10. Maybe the excuse is that everytime they talk to Santana all he says is “fuck you, pay me,” before hanging up the phone.

    • YES!

      Or maybe he doesn’t want to gamble his career earnings on a one year contract pitching in the AL east.

      We really have no idea…and everyone assuming that the Jays could have already signed Santana if they wanted, or that they’re “dumb” for not already having done so is speculating and nothing more.

      • Agreed entirely Stoeten a Mouth Breather. These guys work themselves up into a lather believing their own bullshit and can’t separate, or else don’t want to separate, fact from fiction. They blame the Jays because the rumours they believe, like Santana will signi by 5 pm with Toronto, don’t come true, instead of recognizing that the rumours are being put out by the agent to manipulate them and others. Now Santana’s agent has Stoeten dancing at the end of a string on a stick.

  11. hey, I thought he wanted to settle this immediately and get on the field, any field, for spring training ?

  12. Santana’s agent is probably levitating now after reading about the Braves pitching woes. I get AA trying to leverage every bit of “value” he can out of a signing but it’s just not working out.
    If he holds the line and loses Santana I still have to tip my hat to him because that’s going to take a large set of balls.

  13. Not too worried about the Braves making a big offer because from what I understand Liberty Media are far worse than Rogers as owners. As much as we complained about Rogers screwing the Jays over by being cheap prior to last year, Liberty media has short changed the Braves even more so.

    Still more worried that Rogers won’t be flexible enough to close the deal.

  14. My question is if the Jays have extra payroll room and can offer Santana 1 year and 14M then why have they not made any moves thus far? I thought all along 2B and C were more concerning than SP and there were options in FA there beyond cheap Navarro who AA says he overpaid for!!! And how about the bench? Of course these rumours that Jays made the 14M offer could be bs but if not the front office imho completely dropped the ball on many opportunities to improve this team this offseason and that is unacceptable.

    They all but conceded they were adding nobody apprarently until this Santana development. For 14M why didn’t they go after Mark Ellis, Brian Roberts, Kelly Johnson, Paul Maholm, Capuano, Jeff Baker and the list goes on. Sure these guys are not premium players but are exactly the veteran role players the teams needs to compliment the stars in the fold now and were to be had in short term deals. Shit on any one of them all you want there is a reason they have been in the league into their 30s and they are a known product that would support the core – the Yanks have done it for years. Many of these young guys the Jays are counting on may not make it through a year or two in MLB (goins, redmond, drabek, sierra, pillar). Have the young unproven guys in the minors to cover for injury instead of key players on the MLB roster and put them on the roster once they force your hand by good performance

    • I think the other options for the bench can possibly be better addressed once teams start to cut down their spring rosters. Imo Santana and Drew are easily a tier above the guys you mentioned. If i was spending i’d be trying to get one of them first especially if that is all the payroll space i had.

      Remember the Jays have back end starter depth along with pen depth. AA should be able to turn some of that depth into other smaller roster pieces before the season starts. Imo it’s far better to blow your wad on the hard to get quality pieces first. The other stuff can be had far more easily throughout the season.

      • I hear what you are saying. For me the wad was blown last offseason. Now is the time to incrementally improve with solid role players and have a deep and balanced team which the Jays do not have at all. WAR and valuations take a back seat to fitting in role players to fill out a balanced and deep roster imo.

        Like I said my concern isn’t the SP so much with the fringe players already there but would have liked to have seen the #4,#5 be guys like Capuana and Maholm with the rest of the fringe in AAA for depth complimented by filling in 2B and another good bench player or two rather than just Santana for instance. If blowing the wad I would have liked to have seen McCann or Infante (since Cano wasnt going to happen) myself however for whatever reason it seems the Jays were not interested in any long term deals at least if you use the Santana situation as a bench mark

        • I just don’t see Maholm or Capuano being a big upgrade over guys like Happ. To me they would have been ideal replacements last year. Santana has more upside than any of them imo. I still would gladly take either over Happ though.

          I do agree this bench needs upgrading before the season starts. I guess a lot of that will depend on how many guys they take for the pen.

          • Yes I dont think they have the upside Santana does either but do think they are good insurance against the fringe guys not performing. And if could land them, a starting 2B and a quality bench guy or two think that the team would be better overall. Dont think it is so easy to land quality bench players at end of SP or even during the year so much – maybe towards the deadline. Not talking about waiver wire material guys who dont make other teams but guys who would start on bad teams but be on the bench on good teams.

  15. Well, the only thing the could make this saga seem like wasted angst is if AA swoops down and surprises us all by trading for a much better starter (aka Smaradija)
    There always seems to be an ace in the hand. Perhaps it just hasn’t been played yet?

    • And the Shark is a much better pitcher than Santana why? Not to mention the players you have to give up in trading for him.

      • Agree short of a true ace, the price for guys like Samardzija is going to be too high. Spend the cash first and keep the prospects for when you really need them. To me the Red Sox and the Cards have done a great job of that over the years.

  16. I think Santana has a chip on his shoulder and is out to prove the naysayers wrong so wants to play in the AL east where he thinks he will put in a stellar year and get the big payday next offseason and not have doubters because he played in a big park or was in a crappy division.

  17. Anyone notice the pizza related burn Bautista just laid down on Boston Pizza?

    Bau says no thanks to Boston Pizza, he can get free Pizza Pizza any time he wants.

    The debate of shit pizza continues.

    (sorry, can’t link to twitter from work computer)

  18. Stoets, you’re coming a bit unglued here. All this rending of garments and gnashing of teeth seems to leave out the very real possibility that the Jays in fact made good offers on players and were nevertheless turned down. (See: Burnett, AJ.) Free agency isn’t like going to the supermarket and grabbing something off the shelf. These guys can choose, and could very well choose the same dollars (or fewer!) to play somewhere else. ESPECIALLY a guy on a one year deal looking to bump up his value for his next contract. Jesus, can we all calm down a bit? Yes, it would be nice to add Santana – no guarantee that he A) stays healthy or B) pitches well, but whatever – but holy shit it isn’t the end of the world if he signs elsewhere, and it sure as hell doesn’t mean AA (or Rogers) is being negligent (or cheap). This narrative that the Jays somehow blew it this off-season is a lot of fact-free garbage. They addressed a need (C) and have some depth at SP. I’d still like to see an upgrade at 2B and yes another SP would be great, but who knows what will happen as Spring Training winds down and guys without options become available. This hyperventilating is a bit …weird. Not what I’ve come to expect from DJF. Serenity now!

    • Lots of fact-free garbage yes. But the known fact as you point out is all that was done in the offseason was replace JPA with Navarro and add Kratz as backup. It is legitimate analysis to say this team should be doing whatever it can to improve at this time and there were all sorts of options to do just that given many different sets of constraints there may or may not have been.

    • Well put Steve-O. It seems that the reasoned, patient, analytical approach this site used to be all about has been slipping away this offseason. It’s gotten to the point where I find myself skimming/skipping the verbose posts and spending my time reading the comments instead. Definitely not what I used to do on DJF.

      • Yeah, I’m really not sure why 75ish wins two seasons in a row and hearing the word value every other sentence when it comes to bolstering the roster would wear thin on fans. Just be “reasonable” and blow sunshine up Alex’s ass regardless of on-field results.

        Who the fuck are you? Wilner? If you say you’ve got to address the rotation then completely don’t do it, what do you expect people to say? If you say you’re waiting out the market to get more amenable terms, then it seems to have worked and you balk, how is it not ‘analytical’ to question what’s going on?

        Basically what you seem to be saying is that you prefer to hear your own calm thoughts on how the team’s doing just fine when you come on the internet. A lot of perceived talent walked off the roster this off-season. I don’t care if Bonifacio and Johnson were shit, they were perceived (by Alex as well as fans) to contribute, didn’t and are now gone with little in the way of meaningful replacement. Why wouldn’t fans, players and media question this? You’d have to be a ‘mouth-breather’ not to… Follow WIlner and Barry Davis on Twitter if all you want to hear is how comfortable Esmil Rogers feels out there.

        • “Who the fuck are you? Wilner?”

          Really the most unkind cut of all.

        • Nowhere did I say that being critical was a bad thing, and there is a difference between “reasoned analysis” and your version of “being reasonable”.

          I’m talking about the increased prevalence of ideas (like the one put forward in the sub title for this post “…Lo and behold, there’s one available who the Jays dumbly haven’t signed yet!”) that seem to come more from the frustration of a fan than from critical analysis.

          I’m not looking to be fed sunshine when there isn’t any, but I guess I’m just getting tired of reading about speculation based on rumour and opinion instead of reading about baseball.

          • I think we’re all emotionally exhausted. Uncertainty and tense hope all offseason will do that. No question though, the way fans engage with baseball news has become sensationalist and reactionary. At least it’s fun, being so interactive.

          • While I don’t agree with the comment about the lack of critical analysis in my stance on this, or the stuff about not wanting speculation based on rumour (door’s on the left), or the dumb name, “When did Stoeten become a mouth breather?” is otherwise on the right side of this one.

            • The issue of rumor based news is, to my mind, that all our major information providers are using that format. I’m sure to a certain extent it’s because one has to in this industry, but it’s not that you in particular or anyone else is. It’s that you all are. It wouldn’t be so bad if this off-season weren’t so stressful, because we wouldn’t be hanging on to your every word. Rogers being a media dynasty, that is exactly the point. That’s just how it looks from where I stand.

    • This true, but there is very little indication that they made offers over and above the other teams, which would force the players (and agents) to turn down more money to go somewhere else.

    • Steve-O, as mentioned in the post, Santana’s agent DM’d me after I wrote the screed about the cheapjack Jays when Ubaldo went to Baltimore. True I could be reading it wrong, but coupled with everything else going on (the personal connections and lobbying, the utter lack of alternatives available to him which has brought the process to this point) it seemed clear to me that he very much would play here, without question.

      The tone may have changed, but that’s because something major has changed with Santana, since we’re now talking about a one-year contract. The addition of the Braves to the mix just came today, and maybe that gives Santana an opportunity that the Jays’ money won’t be able to buy out from him, but I doubt it — it doesn’t sound like the Braves have the budget.

      I don’t know, I think I’m being pretty clear and pretty reasonable here. Santana isn’t going to make or break the season, but that’s not the point, the point is that there’s tangible improvement RIGHT THERE and the Jays simply passing on it is not just “ho hum, gee guys, that’s OK.” I try to be fair with Rogers — I have a long record of it, and I think I’m being as fair as I can be now by asking, if you can’t call bullshit on this, what can you call bullshit on, really?

      Yes, they’re already spending a lot, but to pull back now? The whole Dickey for d’Arnaud and Syndergaard thing was accepted, at least by reasonable people like those around here, largely on the premise that pulling back was exactly what they Could Not Do. At least they’d HAVE to keep pushing it all in for 2013-15, which was going to take the sting out of the price they paid to push as hard as they did last year. Not doing anything this winter and going back to the old false hope and finger crossing bullshit kind of puts the sting right back in, which is yet another element to why I say that this is all bigger than just whether they add a little extra value from Santana or not.

      I don’t know… I get that it’s getting a little over the top maybe, but he’s RIGHT THERE. They’re getting embarrassed by their own players, who are lobbying for them to just spend the damn money. It’s dumb. There really is no excuse for any of this to be happening — though that will be mitigated if they actually do sign him, yes, and much of the hot air should be more clearly qualified with “if this doesn’t happen.”

      • I don’t own any shares in Rogers and don’t watch the blue jays to figure out business models I have been a blue jays fan since they first started so I could give two fucks if it costs them 16 or 18 million or whatever for one year to sign Santana. He is better than what we got for a fourth starter now. Maybe at least we could watch more ball games this year that they win than that they lose like the last couple years.

  19. If Santana wants a one year deal which is being reported and using that one year to cash into a longer term next offseason why would he come to Toronto. Pitching at Turner field or Target field would give himself a better chance to have another good season. way more pitcher friendly parks and divison

    • Colby’s Dad tweeted something similar recently — said that no pitcher looking to increase their value will sign to pitch half their games in the Rogers Centre

      • fuck him

      • And if he does sign here, will Colby’s Dad admit he’s a fucking retard that infested his son’s head with a superiority complex, and that his failure to perform is all because of the coaches/team/Santa Claus or whatever around him and not because he’s uncoachable?

    • I guess because the Twins aren’t offering that much for a single year and are trying to lock him in at a below market price for multiple years. As for the Braves there’s no reports that they will even offer him a 1 year deal similar to what he can get from the Jays. The upside in signing with a team like Toronto is that if he pitches well then he’s proven he can pitch in the AL East and that’s probably the one thing more than anything else that’s going to get him a big contract the following year. Obviously there is risk in doing that but he clearly believes in himself and his elbow. He more than anyone else would know about the state of his elbow. You would have to think if he had concerns about it like everyone else seems to do then he would have snapped up the most guaranteed money being offered already.

  20. I was thrilled at 10am Saturday. Now I don’t care. I have a feeling AA might have another deal on simmer ?? if not get Happ an A535 heat patch for his back and march him out there.

  21. I haven’t read the comments in this or other Santana threads, so I apologize if this has already been discussed.
    That said, can someone explain why the Jays shy away from incentive-laden contracts?
    I sorta get why they won’t go beyond five years (even though Cashman says it’s the price of doing business), but incentive-based contracts seem win-win.

    • frank thomas

      • Ah yes, when the Jays had a tremendous DH and then the next April just decided to dick him around and bench him so he wouldn’t hit his vesting option for games played. Thomas had just put up an .857 OPS in 2007, yeah, we wouldn’t have wanted that for an extra year.

      • I hope they haven’t created a blanket policy over one incident.

  22. In honor of the desperation around here lately. I thought I’d make a list of most embarrassing moments in Jays history. Feel free to contribute.
    We can do a feel good one after Santana finishes off his Lebron-esque decision.

    Tim Johnson and his war heroics.

    Yunels eye black.

    Todd Stottlemyres head first, chin scarring, slide.

    Alex Rios bouncing the ball off his glove for a homerun.

    Brett Lawrie and the tale of the bouncing helmet.

    Brett Lawrie/Adam Lind in SacFlyGate.

    The Man in White

    FightNight in the 500 section.

    Farrells grotesque chin and anything to do with his leaving. (sigh Yan Gomes)

    Robby Alomar and spitgate.

    JP Strike3bia’s historically bad season.


    Get in on this. Get’s the poison out now before we win it all in 2014.

  23. In other news Mlbtr reports on Yankees spending this offseason:

    •Masahiro Tanaka, RHP: Seven years, $155MM (Plus $20MM release fee).
    •Jacoby Ellsbury, OF: Seven years, $153MM. $21MM vesting option for 2021.
    •Brian McCann, C: Five years, $85MM. $15MM vesting option for 2019.
    •Carlos Beltran, OF: Three years, $45MM.
    •Matt Thornton, LHP: Two years, $7MM.
    •Brendan Ryan, SS: Two years, $5MM. $2MM mutual option for 2016.
    •Hiroki Kuroda, RHP: One year, $16MM.
    •Derek Jeter, SS: One year, $12MM.
    •Kelly Johnson, IF/OF: One year, $3MM.
    •Brian Roberts, 2B: One year, $2MM.
    •Total spend: $503MM

    Kinda makes the 1 year/14 MM offer for Santana seem small, but then they’ve got to add that bit about no incentives….WTF?

    • WTF indeed

    • ouch.

    • How do you know what incentives they have or haven’t offered or what would make a difference? Answer, you don’t.

      • I do know what a number of legitimate writers have said that the Jays have offered a flat 14MM and no incentives (Heyman Morosi Rojas etc)

        And you don’t know that it’s not the case.

        • Karl, show me one quote where any of these guys say that they ‘know’ that has occurred. All you are doing is confusing rumours for facts. That’s why its called mlb trade rumours, not mlb trade “facts’. Even Dan Duquette yesterday said he had no idea what was true and what isn’t. But you somehow do? From the guy, Rojas, who wrote that he was signing with Toronto at 5 pm Saturday? Yeah, right!

          • And you’re right Karl, I don’t know that it isn’t the case. I don’t know that it is the case. That’s why I don’t shoot my mouth off pretending to know what the facts are when I don’t. Try it.

            • To be more accurate, neither of us will ever know exactly unless Anthopoulos or Duquette signs a bid sheet and sends us a copy…or would you prefer the original?.

              I suggest you lighten up JB. We’re doing a little speculation here and MAYBE a little shooting our mouths off (ps thanks for that)….tell me you’ve never done that in your life.

  24. I’d think the Braves have too much invested in this season to come up short in the pitching department. Particularly in light of the fact the Nationals will not crash and burn again this year. The Nats are daunting competition. I say they sign Santana.

    • You could say the same about the Jays or the Orioles. The thing about the Braves is that they are generally a younger team than the Jays or Orioles and if they end up having a year like the Jays did last year then it’s not the end of the world for them. So many of their position players are on the younger side and are now tied up for a few years.

    • Unfortunately, couldn’t we say this exact thing for Toronto?

      “I’d think the Braves have too much invested in this season to come up short in the pitching department. “

  25. He’s not coming here. Disappointment coming soon

  26. I think the jays have a legit chance of landing santana. He obviously would take less money to sign with atlanta and put up crazy numbers in the creampuff NL but how much less? I can’t see them offering much more than 10 mil.

    Balt and jays is a bit of a wash. davis or bautista? defenses are similar. He’s pitched well in skydome in a large sample. But there are 2 big differences. Jays have more latin players which should make it more comfortable to play here. Balt just lost there closer which could mean a lot of blown saves which would cost him a lot of wins. 8 wins isn’t going to get him a big contract. Jays have jansen and santos. Nothing pisses off a pitcher more than blown leads

  27. Get the Faawk out of here Lets Go Os

  28. And Fawk You HJBirdie

  29. Lmao what ever your just a dick head, and we all know it, so just continue on. you u piece of shit.

  30. People. Trolls. Don’t respond to them unless you want fucked up comment sequences. These dipshits get scrubbed.

  31. With the Braves it’s a matter of whether management can convince ownership to pony up to try to save a contending year – at least in the event Beachy and/or Medlen are seriously injured. That’s the number one reason why this will probably drag on for a couple more days – Medlen’s MRI results aren’t due till later today and nothing is currently known about Beachy, who has a pretty extensive history of elbow problems FYI.

    Doubting the Royals are actually a factor here – I think their GM came out and said they were already over budget earlier in the offseason.

    Between the Jays and O’s, it’s very clear the Jays have more of a need. I’m not even sure Ervin Santana is an upgrade over Miguel Gonzalez or Bud Norris who are currently the O’s 4 and 5. With the Jays Santana is a pretty clear upgrade over Happ/Rogers/Redmond, whose track records and current health issues make far riskier options to varying degrees. He may not be a talent upgrade over guys like Hutchison or Stroman, but offers far more piece of mind.

    Dickey, Buerhle, Morrow, Santana, Hutchison (for arguments sake), doesn’t scream amazing but it’s probably average-ish (everyone’s probably a 3-4 starter in the most likely scenario), and the depth (assuming they would be forced to cut bait with Redmond) would include capable options like Rogers, Happ (when back from injury), Stroman, and wildcards like McGowan, Drabek, Nolin and Romero.

    Santana is a low-risk move to fill a position of need for a team that is on the steep part of the win curve. Should be a no-brainer.

  32. So let’s assume Santana is going to actually sign a 1 year deal… What’s the hold up?

    I mean there’s not a bunch of players still in the mix, why havent you signed yet?

    for the jays, if they by now haven’t upped their offer, maybe it’s not coming? Un less they are confident they are going to get to bid last

    • Yes, there are still many questions.

    • Because he likely wants to sign the best deal for him and waiting a few extra days to figure this out aint going to kill him. Im sure he’s anxious to get into camp…but he’s not going to leave a bunch of money on the table just to get into a camp one or two days early.

  33. If the Jays were to sign Santana, he wouldn’t be the savior who comes in and makes them a contender. He would provide innings, not necessarily good ones, so you could start the year with the young guys in AAA in case of injury, and so as not to rush them. So, if all were to go according to plan, if the the injuries and defensive errors are minimal, if Lawrie, Melky, Rasmus play well, if the bullpen repeats its dominance, and the offense saves a few bad starts, and you end up with a winning record in July, then you can think about making a trade for a front line SP (Cliff Lee), making Santana your #5. At that point, you’re a contender.

    The other possibility is that signing Santana, and thus making your depth even deeper, allows you to trade some depth for a 2B upgrade. I’m not sure if that trade exists, and clubs are looking at the waiver wire to fill holes this time of year. But if that were possible, god damn that’d be sweet, to upgrade 2B and deal with the roster crunch in one move.

    My point is that there are still so many ifs. Even if we do sign Santana, a thousand things can still go wrong. People are getting too worked up over this particular issue. Ervin alone wont save us. Maybe he helps us get to the playoffs, but without other additions, we wot go far once there. However, at the end of the day, I still want them to try, for crying out loud.

    • That’s not really the point. It’s about their seriousness to make an obvious, tangible, reasonably-priced improvement that’s fallen directly into their lap. If a sports franchise can’t do that, what fucking good are they?

      • But supposing they can’t do that? I’m not a Santana fan as you know but I can see the value of him for a year. What it sounds like is the possibility of a bidding war between a bunch of teams which now apparently may include KC and in those circumstances Santana’s price–even for one year–could get ridiculous. There has to be a level of value for money here.

        • You’re not a fan? What exactly do you want him to do? pitch 300 ip? era in the 1′s?

          There are only 7 other AL pitchers who pitched 200ip and had a lower ERA. Take a look at that list and then tell me why santana isn’t among those elite.

          • Which, of course, is why he was signed on the first day of free-agency for a 7-year $200M contract.

            Wait! What?

          • “There are only 7 other AL pitchers who pitched 200ip and had a lower ERA. Take a look at that list and then tell me why santana isn’t among those elite.”

            There was only one qualified starter in the AL with a negative fWAR in 2012. Hint: It wasn’t Ricky Romero.

            • It was the guy who was hurt and whose velocity came back last year and who added a sinker to help better keep the ball in the ballpark, right?

              When the talk was about a multi-year deal it seemed reasonable to debate this to me, but when you’re talking about just a one-year commitment the potential for good far, far outweighs the bad. Screaming about 2012 is pointless. They should add him.

              • “They should add him.”

                I get that. But I can’t believe that they haven’t because of some bullshit rule. I can’t believe it’s a question of the payroll ceiling either because that *has* to have been pre-determined before the off-season started. That’s why I have to think there are warning signs that we don’t know about. If they don’t sign him because they ‘can’t afford it’ I’ll be out on the barricades with everyone else. So if they don’t sign him, I will expect to hear why via Bruce Arthur or some other AA-friendly hack. But as of right now I suspect that there was a deal in place and Santana went back on it. It’s the only thing that makes sense.

                • It’s not.

                • I seriously doubt that’s what happened Isabella. If it had, I think there would have been a presser. What seems obvious is that his agent used the Jays and the Spanish ESPN to bring Santana’s market back from the grave. I think there was an offer from Toronto and an offer from Baltimore and the agent is now waiting to see what more interest he’ll receive from other clubs. There’s no deal, there’s no ‘reasonable price’ as Stoeten is claiming, the agent is in waiting mode to see what interest he can stir up. The rest – the 5 PM deadline, the early signing, the quick report to camp, Stoeten’s ‘reasonable price’ – is pure horseshit.

      • What’s the price Stoeten? You claim to know it’s “reasonable” so tell us what it is. Don’t tell us what it’s not, or give us some vague, flowery bullshit. Tell us what this erasable price is.

        Unlike you, some of us don’t pretend to know what the price is. We see an agent who leaked a bunch of bullshit, like Santana wants to sign “right away” on a 1 year deal, and will sign with the Jays by 5 pm Saturday if he doesn’t get better offers, and wants to be in camp “right away” while he’s trying to create a market for his guy.

        But if you claim to know this “reasonable” price, tell us what it is and tell us how you came to know it.

        • You’re an idiot.

          • Namecalling? That’s all you have Andrew?

            Stoeten has been claiming that he knows the price, because he knows that is reasonable. When asked the simple questions of what the reasonable price is, and how he came to know it, Stoeten’s answer is ‘you’re an idiot’.

            Stoeten has jumped the shark. He’s become a troll on his own blog, offering up name calling instead of responses.

    • So what you are saying is that signing santana would definitely help, but perhaps not enough to make the playoffs…..but it might help enough to make the playoffs if other things go well. but if they dont it might not be worth doing. …but it might …if things go well…

      perhaps we should just get the Delorean out and fast forward to september to see if we should have signed him?

      • Im replying to jeff, not you Stoeten

        • My point was that whether we sign Santana will not make or break this team. There are other options, and for all we know, signing Santana would limit our ability to bring in a front line SP, which is what we actually need. We don’t actually need an innings eater who might be mediocre, we need production right now. For example, taking on Cliff Lee’s entire salary would probably lessen the prospect demands. I could be wrong though. Whatever you do, it’s gonna be a gamble, so which move is a better bet? Is Ervin Santana the better bet? He’s an upgrade over Happ, great, good for him. If his salary keeps you from doing what you need to, then what was the point? There’s still a chance for this team to be really good, not just good enough. We just don’t know enough to make huge, fortune teller claims.

          • Ervin Santana is the better bet. They need April wins more than the vague spectre of a future addition. Nobody’s trying to be a fortune teller, it’s just very obvious.

  34. But Santana wasn’t ‘right there’. Obviously there were too many concerns for any team to sign him to a multi-year contract. As soon as he says he will go for a year, then the Jays are interested–and may have thought they’d come to an agreement as per Tweets and what-not from the media. But then the Os got into it, the Twins were mentioned, and now Atlanta. Santana has choices. He was gonna announce by 5.00 pm Saturday. He didn’t. Seeing what’s gone on, I believe it’s possible there may have been an understanding between AA and Santana and then Santana walked away from it. In those circs I would expect AA to walk away as well.

    • Is it not reasonable to expect a team owned by a company with giant moneybags to win a relatively low cost free agent to fill an urgent need? All the BS with the back and forth etc. is par for the course with free agents.

      If he blows out his arm next Tuesday it would still have been the right choice to win this contract. If his medicals are as bad as the internet rumors, no one would be talking to him.

    • That’s actually not true. Twins offered him a 3 year deal, but he wanted a 4 year deal.

      The reason he hasn’t signed is because he first wanted a 100 mil deal remember?
      I’m pretty sure there were lots of team in at 3 years.

  35. Because I’m a smug asshole I’m just going to leave this here so I can gloat about how smart I am later. (That’s what we do, right?)

    ‏@IMWills: Santana will now go to Altanta #jays
    2:29 PM – 9 Mar 2014

  36. With all the free pizza offers being thrown around by local establishments its really hard to imagine Santana signing anywhere else. Who turns down pizza?

  37. I for one remember a few years ago, Santana owning the Jays at the Skydome. I like him, and i think playing with Edwin, and Joses may start some good chemistry. Even if he goes say 10-10 on the season, that would be ok.

    I really would like to see this rotation to start the season.


    and when Morrow gets his annual injury you still have Happ, Redmond, Rogers, Drabek, Romero.

    thats some nice depth if you ask me.

    • Most of what you said is pretty spot on.
      But you would mind listing Morrow’s past “annual injuries” for us? I’m just curious.

    • Happ is a basket case right now.

      Redmond is out of options.

      Drabek and Romero have both looked meh so far.

      Rogers might be the only viable option for depth.

      Give me some Stroman please.

      No question, the Jays need Santana more than the Orioles.

      Seeing AA play his hand perfectly this offseason but not pulling the trigger has been frustrating. Akin to seeing a nut hand slow played only to be beat by a one-outer on the river. Now you have the Braves interested given the probable losses to their rotation pieces in Medlen and possibly Beachy.

      If Santana signs elsewhere, rotation will likely be Dickey, Morrow, Buerhle, Hutchinson and Rogers. Happ will likely go on the DL and if Redmond makes the 25 man roster, he’s heading for the pen.

      The Jays have like 17 games vs. AL East rivals in April. They need a good month. AA will probably have an 8 man bullpen to both stash out of option guys l(ie. Cecil, Santos, McGowan, Jeffress and Redmond) and to try to keep the team’s head above water from the pitching side of things

      Having a boost from a guy like Santana would be great. But fuck, waiting this long might very well backfire badly.

  38. When are we all going to come to the realization that AA is not fit for the job?

    AA had his opportunity to take a step forward for this franchise rolled his dice and crapped out!! As things sit now was are a last place team in the AL East both on paper and what will turn out to be the field.

    Besides the inability to shore up the rotation as well as 2nd base AA’s recent lack of accomplishments is staggering:

    1. Unable to sign not 1 but 2 first round draft picks 2011 & 2013. Lest we forget he also used the 2010 pick on Deck McGuire who was thought to be somewhat secure albeit with little to no upside which has proven to be the case . Regardless of the compensation picks this set the jays back in development time of players they could potentially use/used or parlayed them into almost ready trade assets.

    2. The R.A Dickey trade was a joke from day 1, even if he was to win a Cy Young this year(which we know he won’t),!! How does any GM trade 2 top 25 prospects in all of baseball for a 38 year old novelty pitcher? Are you fucking kidding me? Even if D’Arnaud or NS where to fizzle out those are still the type of ranked assets that you use to acquire star level players in or approaching their prime. The trade stamped AA as someone who will drastically overpay which will continue to hamper him in future deals, just look at the Cubs asking price for The Shark.

    3. 5 count them 5 prospects for the honor to have JA Happ under contract. Again even if none of these guys were to ever pan out it was still 5 prospects from what was then perceived to be a strong minor system. There are always GM’s out there eager to secure players from strong systems that they believe are flying under the radar. Have to say I am with the Griff on that one.

    Although we clearly lost the Florida trade as well it was nice to at least see the franchise take a big swing.

    The bottom line is AA has got to go. It’s blatantly obvious he is in too deep with an under-qualified eye for talent…. just a yes man puppet who reached the height of his profession because of his passport and ability to kiss ass in particular that of the anal rim jobs to Beeston. Although we should appreciate all that Beeston has done for baseball in Toronto the game has now passed him by.

    Time to clean house I say we get Lieweke overseeing the baseball operations for Rogers rest assured he would make sure we treated ourselves like a top flight organization considering we are one of the top 4 or 5 media markets.

    • Nonsense.

    • There are plenty of reasons to knock AA. You just happened to pick 3 really bad ones:

      “Unable to sign not 1 but 2 first round draft picks 2011 & 2013″ Ok sure it sucks. But it’s not like he just forgot to do it. There were obviously legit reasons that it didn’t happen. And it’s not as if it’s unprecedented or something.

      “Deck McGuire” So… all other GMs have a perfect record of drafting stars in the first round?

      The R.A. Dickey trade was expensive, but given the other moves that had been made and the prevailing attitude at the time that the Jays were one top pitcher away from serious contention, it made sense. Couple that with the fact that neither of the big prospects given up has actually done anything of significance at the major league level yet, and Dickey has only had one season so far with the Jays, and it’s clear you’re jumping to conclusions WAY too early.

      “prospects” for Happ? What exactly did we lose here? Let’s compare the contributions of Happ vs the contributions of those players the Jays gave up shall we?

      “lost the Florida trade” – you’re gonna have to explain that one too. How did we “clearly” lose that trade?

      Like I said, if you want to knock AA, you can find reasons. But the ones you found kinda stink.

    • Honestly you sound like an idiot, but even if I was sick of AA, I would let this year play out and see how it goes. If it looks like we have to rebuild, I would be happy with AA staying on board for a year or 2 to at least help with building up prospects, which he seems very good at.

    • You don’t make sense Liga.
      Many holes in your argument.

    • 1) you can’t just ignore the compensation picks as part of the evaluation. Sure you lost a year of developement time, but both players that we failed to sign were high school players not college ones. 2011′s pick turned into stroman who is our #2 prospect and a top 100 mlb prospect and pretty much ready to contribute at the major league level. We don’t know what our 2013 pick will turn into, but if it becomes similar to the pirate’s 2013 draft (they also failed to sign a first round pick the year before), they got some pretty well regarded players pretty much right after another, we can easily do the same.

      2)dickey was a push to go to the playoffs, an overpay to push us over the edge. Very much like the Kent for Cone trade back in the good old days. Obviously it didn’t work out, but you can’t fault him for trying.
      BTW Syndergaard was not a top 25 prospect back then, he is now, but you can’t lump that in as hindsight. And the trade hasn’t stamped AA at all, that’s the cubs decision to put that rediculous price on Shark, not because of overpays by AA. Overpays happen all the time in trades, AA isnt the only GM who’s done it and he won’t be the last.

      3) Yeah 5 prospects, but not one of them cracks houston’s top 15. All of them were lottery picks. And don’t forget we dumped cordero’s salary and got back lyon as well.

    • “we clearly lost the Florida trade as well”

      I know dude, having Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle on our team really fucking sucks.

      • The players the Marlins got are really excelling too. Hech put up a -2.1 WAR, Alvarez put up a no-no but only pitched 100 innings and had a 1.9 WAR. Mathis had a -0.3 WAR, Marisnick a 0.1 WAR in 40 games, Nicolino and DeScalfini both looked good in A+ but slid down quite a bit when moved to AA. So that’s a -2.3 WAR overall from the MLB players they got from us (and kept).

        Jays OTOH received a 2.5 WAR in 93 Games from Reyes, a 2.1 WAR from Buehrle, a 0.1 from Boni, and then of course the shit -1.5 WAR from JJ (Sidenote to Padres: He’s fucking done). Leaving 3.2 WAR from what the Jays got. Thankfully we had no long term commitment to JJ, and easily punted Boni.

        Although we didn’t get what we necessarily wanted from that trade. It’s a real fucking stretch to say that the Marlins won. It’s obvious Hech is not Major League talent, Mathis is well Mathis, and Nicolino and DeScalf might make it to the Majors years from know but neither are likely to be aces. JJ and Boni are gone with no more cost to us (Sidenote to Padres: He’s going to cost you alot. Waste 10 Mil dudes. He’s fucking done.). Meaning the trade essentially breaks down to Alvarez for Reyes and Buehrle. I’ll make that trade. I’ll make that trade over and over.

        • Sorry that’s a -0.4 WAR for the Marlins. Copy and pasted the wrong number,

          • Why do you ignore the best player, in terms of WAR and value in the deal?

            Escobar provided 3.9 WAR – more than any Jay acquired in the deal and at a fraction of the cost.

            If given the chance to do the deal over again, most intelligent followers would prefer Escobar alone over Reyes and Buehrle, let alone when you consider the other prospects involved in that deal (too quick to say you can ignore Marisnick, Nicolino, and DeScalfini, who are among the top prospects in the Marlins system)

            The trade has been beat to death. It was a trade made that prioritized the marketing implications of Yunel’s eye black. From a baseball standpoint, it was questionable at best at the time of the trade. Now, it’s hard to make a credible claim it wasn’t terrible.

            It’s simplistic, but this year in two alternate universes …

            With the trade, the Jays have:
            - Reyes (16) and Buehrle (18)

            Without, they could have (assuming what wounds like paying well above market rates for Santana):
            - Escobar (5), Jimenez (12), Santana (assuming 16 or less), Alvarez (.5), Hech as backup IF (.5 – I think he’s pre-arb now), Marisnick, Nicolino, and DeScalfini.

            That group has a better rotation, deeper farm system, a similar SS and more payroll flexibility for the next few years.

            • Becauee they didn’t keep Escobar, they punted him for a 0 WAR player. I would have included him if they kept him. But we’re talking about which team came out ahead in the trade at this point in time, not hypothetically if Florida had been better by retaining him. Way I look at it if the Jays let Esco walk as a FA for nothing to the Rays.

              • Why do the Jays care about how the other team used their assets in evaluating whether or not the Jays lost the deal?

                The Jays clearly would have been better off had they not made the deal, therefore, they lost the trade.

                Whether the Marlins won or lost the Derek Dietrich trade should not have an impact at all on who did better in the Jays / Marlins trade.

    • you could pretty much write a negative report on every GM in baseball, maybe outside of Freidman.

      Looking at just the negatives, and not including the positives is like doing an analysis on Edwin Encarnacion and just discussing the few times he struck out. He’s obviously made some mistakes, some that you didn’t even mention, but he’s also had a lot of wins and most important was proactive in attempting to build a winner.

      In my opinion it has to be ownership who cut him down this offseason, he’s too smart to stand pat, he’s a scout at heart, he knows what he has at the back end of that rotation.

      • If he has the budget to make an offer to Santana, then the idea that ownership has limited him sounds inconsistent with the publicly available knowledge.

        At the end of the day, like every other GM, AA will get judged not on his moves, but on his overall W-L record. So far, that’s not looking too good, but there is still time.

  39. The longer this goes on,the less sense it makes to me.

    • I still want it to happen. But if Atlanta swoops in (Medlen’s situation is looking pretty bad right now) then I’ll have some fun watching Hutch do what he can do, plus something like McGowan for as long as he can last (might has well use up whatever he has left in that arm until he explodes and actually get some value for the $$ – yes I know this makes me a dehumanizing asshole. I don’t really wish him harm, but well… you know) – and then see how Stroman or someone else can do whenever they get the call.

  40. Can we just sign Santana already? Jesus fuck.

  41. Over at the Fangraphs chat I asked the question “At this point who do you think will sign Santana”

    Jeff Sullivan said Toronto which makes me feel a little better.

    At the same time, the same was said about jiminez like a month and a half ago so….

    • see that’s because both made logical sense at the time.
      However the Jays FO doesn’t seem to be applying logical sense right now. Or at least not any that we can understand given the facts we have

      • What facts do you have? Tell us what they are and how you obtained these facts. Everyone else here has some rumours that they are pretending are facts.

    • The Santana rumors just make the lack of a Jimenez signing more confusing.

      The team clearly identifies the need, thus the Santana interest.

      The money is clearly there in the budget – they’re offering Santana more AAV than Jimenez signed for and the 2015 Jays have few existing salary commitments.

      And the length of the Jimenez contract was only 4 years, so that doesn’t seem like something to scare the team off.

      • Heard a whisper that Ubaldo failed a physical (maybe just a medical issue?). Not sure how much I believe it, though, because it wasn’t a first-hand source, but someone relaying to me something from someone who did hear it straight from one (supposedly). Pretty far down the chain. The person who told me I definitely trust, though.

        • Would the Orioles have signed him if he had medical issues, given how finicky they are on the subject (eg: Balfour)? I think they are simply hesitant to make any kind of long term commitment to a guy of this caliber (Jimeinez, Santana). Brunt alluded to this a few weeks ago saying they would have no problem paying big dollars on a one year deal and the Santana offer jives with that.

          • teams doctors differ greatly, you can fail a physical with one team and pass with another.

            IE Brett Anderson.

            I think of everything that happens this offseason, anderson having a good year could sting the most.

            • I’d love to know what goes on in the evaluation of the health of Jays pitchers.

              Santana and Jimenez have been two of the most dependable starting pitchers in baseball over the last ~5 years in terms of durability. The Jays on the other hand have had injuries by the handful each of the last few years.

              Yet, somehow the Jays seem to have questions about committing to these two long-term due to health.

              Now, I know there is much more than just past innings numbers, but still, this just seems like an odd spot for the Jays to be in where they can’t afford the risk of taking on these guys that consistently make 30+ starts with 180+ innings.

              • There have been lots of expressions of concern about Santana’s health. He’s been described as elbow surgery waiting to happen. Have you missed that or are you trolling?

                • Are you just selectively reading?

                  “Now, I know there is much more than just past innings numbers, but still, this just seems like an odd spot for the Jays to be in where they can’t afford the risk of taking on these guys that consistently make 30+ starts with 180+ innings.”

                  Furthermore, I was not talking about just one pitcher … this is apparently three pitchers now who have found homes elsewhere where it’s been suggested the Jays passed due to injury concerns. Again, I find it curious that the team with the most injury-riddled staff is the one being most cautious about acquiring players.

  42. The the thing I hope is that if the Jays do sign him, they sign him soon so Santana can get some work in…..sounds like he is building arm strength but it would be nice if he was facing live batters….considering opening day is arriving sooner and sooner

  43. It’s precisely because they are NOT in the AL East that the Twins and Braves are probably offering him their 10-11 million AAV deals. If it can be established that for pitchers there is a marketedly higher price to be in the AL East, it makes a heck of alot more sense to go after position players for your money. We could have gotten real talent for 2B, 1B, and C and just try to outgun the opposition. Otherwise we are filling up salary space with mediocre pitchers if we do it through Free Agency. Use FA to get position players and then trade them for pitching later when the pitchers don’t have a choice.

  44. What is the max to pay for Santana? He might be thinking now if the jays offered 14m maybe I wait for 16m. If they offer 16m maybe i ask for 18m. AA has to draw the line with a potential number three starter. If he repeats last years 9-10 record with a sub 4 era is that worth 16m? Could we get that same star line from the five guys already in camp?

    • Last year, Santana had an fWAR of 3.0 and a bWAR of 2.9. At about $7.5 MM per WAR, any price short of $20 MM is a good deal for Santana.

      And not that ERA means much of anything, but Santana was 9th in the AL in ERA last year. So, while your statement implies that his ERA wasn’t overly significant, that’s pretty darned good.

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