The Jays take on the Red Sox in yet another untelevised bout of weekday afternoon baseball-ish, and apparently Jerry Howarth said on the radio earlier today that Ryan Goins and Moises Sierra “are the building blocks of the future” and that “Goins is going to be a plus no matter what he hits.”


Also: Mike McCoy!

And I Thought Wednesday Was Rock Bottom…

Though it was only Ervin Santana that the Jays missed out on this week, it really wasn’t only about Ervin Santana. Wednesday’s acquisition by the Atlanta Braves of the mid-rotation innings eater that the Jays’ own staff is fucking screaming for (figuratively, I mean, although maybe even literally too) was about as low as it was going to get for a while, I thought. Then yesterday, I saw this. It’s a year old, and apparently I was shown it at the time and was all FFF, dickholes! World Series here we come! WHOOOOOOOO!, but actually taking it seriously was new to me, and… holy fuck, talk about a gut punch.

According to the New York Daily news, well… this:

Here’s a snapshot of how high the Mets are on d’Arnaud: Alderson said that he tried to get two specific players from an unnamed team for Dickey, but the team balked. But when Alderson acquired d’Arnaud, the team called back and offered the same two players for d’Arnaud alone. Alderson said no, even though the Mets would’ve kept the other players acquired from Toronto.

If you’re unclear, what they’re basically saying is that they value Travis d’Arnaud alone more than they did R.A. Dickey, which leads us to the question, then, why the fuck is Noah Syndergaard a Met???

Reading it so rigidly is slightly misleading, of course, because you need to account for positional scarcity, needs of the roster, goals for the upcoming season, the timing of when these offers were made, things of that nature. And who knows if it’s even accurate — Alderson could just be pumping his own tires or d’Arnaud’s here. But seriously! They asked for two players for Dickey that they wouldn’t give up for d’Arnaud. Meaning, they could have had those two players they’d have taken for Dickey, plus Syndergaard, but they valued d’Arnaud so astonishingly highly that they wouldn’t do it. As in: higher alone than the two players they felt were enough to give up Dickey for. Yet the Jays gave them him plus another prospect of equal or higher value.

Wrapped your mind around it yet?

We’re always hearing about the Jays and their due diligence, but that can only go so far, especially when they’re competing with other clubs to make the best offer in a trade. It’s certainly plausible that Anthopoulos didn’t know that the Mets had asked the team about these two players. It’s also plausible that he got schooled by the old man. Ugh.


Jeff Blair spoke about Brandon Morrow on the radio today — audio here — because he noticed Morrow’s name missing from clubhouse charts listing where pitchers are scheduled to be over the coming days. His first instinct was to believe he was hurt, he says, but that isn’t the case. He explains that “it appears now as if there has been an alteration in the Blue Jays rotation heading into the season, and effectively it looks as though Brandon Morrow is the fifth starter. It looks as if Drew Hutchison has a shot at getting the second game in Tampa Bay.”

“This much is pretty apparent after talking to people around the Blue Jays for the last three days: Brandon Morrow is on a pretty short leash here. I think he knows that. I think he realizes that there are a lot of eyes on him this spring.”

It’s true that Morrow’s spring hasn’t been great, and that last year was a total write off, and that tough love is very probably the way to go with him for a somewhat exasperated organization who desperately need him at this point? Sure. But he last pitched in the big leagues in May, so I think it’s somewhat forgivable that he hasn’t been entirely sharp as yet. But yeah, he’s kinda got to get his shit together.

And now the lineups…

Toronto Blue Jays

DH Jose Reyes (S)
LF Melky Cabrera (S)
RF Jose Bautista (R)
CF Colby Rasmus (L)
C Dioner Navarro (S)
1B Dan Johnson (L)
SS Ryan Goins (L)
2B Chris Getz (L)
3B Munenori Kawasaki (L)

RHP Drew Hutchison

Boston Red Sox

CF Jackie Bradley Jr. (L)
3B Jonathan Herrera (S)
DH Mike Carp (L)
1B Mike Napoli (R)
LF Jonny Gomes (R)
RF Corey Brown (L)
C Ryan Lavarnway (R)
SS Brock Holt (L)
2B Mike McCoy (R)

RHP Clay Buccholz

Comments (333)

  1. I thought the Jays were so confident in Morrow, one of the reasons they didn’t pursue pitching as intently. Although I guess that could just be posturing.

  2. Sigh, what can we do, free agency is essentially over with AA upgraded one hole in the lineup with not apprarent relief in sight.

    Let’s look forward to the same old projected .500 ball shall we.

    • It’s still early.

      • I love that people hate so much when they’re told it’s still early at times when it is, in fact, still early. Goddamn morons.

        • Nice point

        • Ok pal. How about you just clean off your glasses and take a real look. We have 3 pitchers. THREE , and a pantload of good relief. And or amazing line up barely hits.
          It’s early ??? It was early last November, it was early in February. It’s not early. Nothing short of a miracle or a trade ??? saves this mess from a 7 win April. By then it’s over.
          Also someone needs to tell JB that it’s early OR is he crying to the umps already just to get ready for ctying in th regular season. AA fuck off value boy, you nad Beaston need to be shown the door.
          It’s early, FUCK OFF

          • yea! you mutha fuckas acting like its spring training! wake up!

          • Not sure how it isn’t early since the season hasn’t started, the team is projected to be over 500 and close to playoffs and nothing really negative has transpired so far.

            Morrow starting the fifth game of the season instead of the second doesn’t change that. Hutchinson looks poised to be a servicable starter. Some guys in competition for the last spot have struggled (Happ, Redmond, Rogers, Drabek). Stroman seems poised to develop in AAA and be ready to contribute this season if necessary. Romero has shown signs of returning to form which could be a huge boost – no idea why some completely write him off the guy is still young, was a recent all star and doesn’t seem to have any physical issues. Cabrera who was a question mark has looked good and healthy. Navarro has looked decent defensively and Kratz has looked outstanding defensively. Nothing has happened this spring training that should change pre spring projections which by fangraphs are:

            Sox 88-74
            Tigers 88-74
            Indians 80-82

            Angels 85-77
            As 85-77
            Rays 84-78
            Yanks 83-79
            Mariners 83-79
            JAYS 82-80

            That puts the Jays 3 games back of the wildcard. Considering the season over before it starts in quite simply ridiculous in this case

        • It’s not early you shit stains, this is over. Just pack it up and let’s end this charade…

          • when sportsnet is putting out articles about Romero possibly being the answer, you know the rotation is in trouble.

            • And why is that KevDog? How are you so sure there is little hope that Romero return to his all star form from 3 years ago? IS he old – no he is in prime years. Does he have concerning physical issues – doesn’t seem so. Does he look like an unconfident mess – no. There is no reason to have such strong doubt about him.

              • except for ya know.. the way hes pitched over the last 2 years.

                • And players have never made comebacks before? He was clearly completely messed the past two years. This year it seems he has significantly got over whatever mental demons and potential physical issues he was having. No reason to write him off.

                  • I don’t think Romero can come back, but we wouldn’t have far to look if we wanted to find an example of a player pulling a Romero and then coming back to form: Ubaldo Jimenez.

                    • Let’s add another guy who was completely lost for a year and half or so, then came back to have a pretty okay career: Doc Halladay.

                      Sure he was a little younger than Romero and had less years in the bigs when he turned in his 4-7, 10.64 masterpiece, but just goes to show that a guy can have some success, turn in a shit stinker, then come back after time in the minors to revamp his pitching.

        • jays are a complete waste of time! Won’t buy a single ticket, listen or watch any of their games for the first time in 30 years :) But instead will spend my time going to other teams parks to watch real baseball teams in a real baseball park.. I suggest the same for all bj followers they don’t deserve a dime of your time or money! LA, Detroit. Chicago, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Boston, and NY I look forward to watching some great baseball.. All the best bj fans with watching mediocracy and listening to Wilner tell you how good this team really is until the all star break when they’re dead last once again..

      • Of course it’s early, we havent played a single game and we could pull an orioles but I’m not exactly inspired.

  3. ouch

  4. I read that article the other day too, for some reason. It made me puke in my mouth a little bit, but then I swallowed it. It was gross, but not as gross as reading that gargle. Fuck me. How disappointing.

    Then to hear the Morrow stuff, like he is now our 5 starter? WTF is going on? Does management just react daily to spring training results? Like……scaarrrrryyyy.

  5. Of course, it should be noted that Morrow being the “5th Starter” means he will be the pitcher for the Jays’ home opener.

  6. Hahah… Jesus Christ. So Happ is hurt, Morrow looks weird, Stroman doesn’t look ready, and Drabek doesn’t look sharp.

    You know… NONE of those are terribly surprising. KIND of why signing guys like Santana and/or Jiminez might have been a decent idea … even if it meant overpaying a bit.

    So, if Morrow needs time away, the rotation is Dickey, Hutchinson, Buerhle … and what?

    Haha. Ahhh. So, what was the point of last offseason?? Why did you trade Darnaud and Syndergard? What is this team trying to do, exactly? Total idiocy.

    • It’s March 14th. They don’t come to camp in mid-season form.

      Which isn’t to say mid-season form for this club will be any good, but a little leeway maybe, please.

      • Idiotic comment for sure. Your sentiments that it is still early still stands. But fuck can a team which may actually need to throw Redmond and Rogers out as the 5th starter for a combined 30 starts really think they can make the playoffs?

      • It’s definitely early but if Morrow doesn’t bounce back after coming into camp with added muscle and apparently looking impressive…physically at least….then the team dropped the ball all that much more by not signing Santana or jiminez…or both. We could still be decent but it may also be another long season…


      • I did get banned a while back. For a joke or something, don’t even remember, but I certainly meant no offense to anyone. Eventually got unbanned. But .. it was very unpleasant and not cool at all.

        I hope this team surprises everyone. Not impossible; it’s a funny game.

    • I think the comment about the trades is valid. What has this whole plan from 2009-2014 been for? It seemed like the goal was to accumulate prospects and then trade them for MLB ready talent in order to go for it. It looked to be in full swing last off-season but how can we just sit idle this offseason given last year’s results? We’ve traded a top 5 farm system for this current team and now the guys we traded away are starting to creep up to MLB status and what we’re left with is this current team.

      Yes it’s just March but, boy is that disappointing.


  8. I really think the offence could be great, and the bullpen is strong. But if Morrow isn’t ‘good Morrow’ … how low is the floor for this team? Could be atrocious.

  9. Regarding the Dickey trade, I read it differently yesterday, but I now see your point. However it would be very easy for the reporter to misunderstand/misquote one or two words in that paragraph and thus giving it a very different meaning. Who knows, let’s hope.

    Regarding Morrow, could also be that the Jays were not entirely comfortable giving the home opener start and all it’s intensity & scrutiny to the young Hutch or the 5th. Specially if that 5th ends up being (gah!) Romero.

    • maybe the positioning of Morrow i9n the 5 spot has to do with Dickeys knuckleball placed coming after his heater fastball?

  10. Oh, I forgot how much I hate John Farrell. Great use of the picture to remind me.

  11. Happy 52nd birthday to Wilner.

  12. Fifth game out of the box is the home opener.
    They’re giving that to Morrow rather than to ?
    Would not read too much into it.

    • Blair mentioned this, and it wasn’t the reason, he said.

      Also, it damn well shouldn’t be the reason. If it’s Esmil Rogers’ day, it’s Esmil Rogers’ day. Fuck this bullshit about treating the opener differently on the field. You’d think they would have learned their lesson from the debacle that was Arencibia catching Dickey just so his precious ego could be in the Opening Day lineup.

      • I think it may also be possible that they took a hard look and they want Dickey to always follow the hardest thrower on the staff.

        And if Hutch goes #2, that puts Dickey between their two “most reliable” harder throwers. Might help Hutch a tiny bit as well.

        I don’t believe much in the knuckleball hangover, but perhaps the Jays do.

        • The Mets had numbers that showed that the guy following Dickey in the rotation had better numbers than the rest of the rotation, so there’s some credence to the “Dickey hangover”.

          • Clarification: There was a mix of pitchers that went after Dickey in the rotation for the Mets over that time and they had better performances in their turn after Dickey than they did when they were slotted elsewhere in the rotation or when they led off in a new series after Dickey started the final game of a series.

      • Setting up the rotation as lewis suggests
        makes good baseball sense.

        On the other point, 48 000 plus did not
        pay premium dollars to see Esmil Friggin’ Rogers pitch.
        Beeston knows it, AA knows it and Gibbers knows it.

        For every team in MLB, the season opener
        and the home opener are “Show Time.”

        The stat head bloggers may scream and shout
        about how that makes no baseball sense, but don’t
        count on it changing any time soon.

      • Fuck Stoeten I am starting to love and hate you more every day! Have your guys call my guys and we will do lunch. We will suck back beers and talk about Radar…yes?

      • You must not have been there the year Tallet started the home opener :(

    • There was another pretty good pitcher who started in the 5 hole last year, primarily because his team didn’t want to rush him. It worked out quite well for Max Scherzer
      last year. Don’t slit your wrists just yet…

  13. It’s go time.

  14. If there are doubts about AA’s ability to (a) assess the market (see: Santana, Ervin) or (b) the value of his own assets (see: d’Arnaud, Travis, Gomes, Yan, Syndergaard, Noah, Napoli, Mike, etc.), then you have to wonder why we even have an AA.

    • Because he’s done a lot of good stuff as well, stuff that you’ve conveniently failed to mention.

      • Can you please pass on a refresher to the things he has done well?

        • - extending Bautista
          - extending Encarnacion
          - more value from Morrow than could possibly have been gained from Brandon League
          - trading a pile of used diapers fo Colby Rasmus
          - convincing someone to take on Vernon Wells’ contract

          there’s more but it’s dinner time, can’t waste it arguing, sorry

          • Also, how about getting Lawrie for Marcum, Delabar for Thames (DFA’d), Gose for Wallace (DFA’d), Happ for nobody you’ve heard of. I get that some of those aren’t major assets but they all have done more that what AA gave away.

    • Because no one else wants the jays job right now?
      It’s an honest question

    • how did he not value some of those pieces? Just because he traded them for win now parts, doesn’t value them..

      Did the red sox not ‘value’ hanley ramirez? or did they pay the price for the players they wanted to acquire.

  15. Holy shit, Hutch.

  16. Hutch is cordially invited to keep this the fuck up.

  17. Who need santana, we got hutch!

    the thought of not needing to include syndergard in the dickey trade makes me sick

  18. This clearly has something to do with Brandon Morrow’s diabetes.

  19. Drew Hutchison is my based god

  20. Or maybe it means Team X was offering shit to the Mets for Dickey, and didn’t think highly of him?

  21. AA getting schooled by an older, more experienced GM? Say it isn’t so? The way I read it, from the fingers of Elliott and Griffin, he’s still the boy genius, and his Canadianism will forever protect him from negative opinions. This is the worst type of nepotism possible.

    When he took over after 2009 season, Blue Jays were coming off 75 win season
    organization ranked 16th heading into 2010 season, according to ESPN

    It’s now 2014, with Blue Jays coming off 74 win season. Organization ranks 24th heading into 2014 season, according to ESPN.

    Pretty sure that’s a lack of forward progress, right whispering Bob and Griff the Swift?

    • Curious.
      Could you find out what ESPN ranked Boston at, before the 2013 season?
      Just askin.

      AA, the guy who picked up a player in the rule 5 draft.Traded the player for Intn’l bonus money, then used that spending allowance to sign an International free agent?
      Just askin.

      So the Mets asked another team for 2 players for Dickey.No indication whether that team needed pitching ( or Dickey) nor how desperate they were for catching,or who the two players coming back were.All of this happening in Dickey’s walk year.
      Just askin.

  22. 23 pitches, 23 strikes. Hutch is locked in today. Nice to see.

    • No. All pitches are strikes on Gameday during the spring.

    • This needs to be stated in pretty much every spring game threat: the pitch counts you see on Gameday are not accurate and appear as the minimum a pitcher could have thrown given the results. Strikeouts come up as three pitches, walks as four and any ball in play as one. He’s thrown more than 23 pitches, and they haven’t all been strikes.

  23. is it possible you could put up a ‘spoiler your day’ alert before posts like this?

  24. Has Buchholz really only thrown 13 pitches in 3 innings?

    • He’s faced 13 batters, and struck out three of them. If he did that on 13 pitches, he’s magical.

  25. Granted it’s a soft lineup but I’m curious how different Klaws perspective on Hutch would be had this been the game he watched.

    Ahh fuckit, Go Jays.

  26. ya’ll just jinxed it, hutch gives up a single run

  27. That’s interesting about Morrow. I wonder if it’s got anything to do with the comments from the kids on the Canadian baseball team about Morrows fastball or lack there of. The comments were in the Elliot piece the day after the game.

  28. Great start by Hutch, again. Can I get excited yet?

    Also, what the fuck is this Morrow shit? The fifth starter? “On a short leash”? Nuts.

  29. http://grantland.com/features/boston-red-sox-moneyball-but-with-money-2014-preview/

    if the Jays offseason doesn’t depress you enough this article will. Reading it makes me feel the Jays are not only poor but dumb also.

    • If there is any team the Jays should be trying to emulate, its the red sox.

      Not because of their WS last year, or their particular good buys last off season which helped produce it….but because they’ve built both a strong farm system and put dollars into the ML roster via free agency and such. Different than the A’s, Pirates, Rays, and more payroll resources than the Cards (in theory).

  30. I don’t give a crap where Morrow starts. I just want him to do it 25+ times.

  31. UGH….can we go back to 2012 and start over?

  32. Is it really so horrible that some team out there might value d’Arnaud more than Dickey? Might it not be a case of horses for courses? Any team not in win-now mode, perhaps with a lack of depth of catcher, is clearly going to take the #1 catching prospect in the game over a 38 year old pitcher, no matter how good he may be.

    • You missed the point.
      The point was that maybe we ONLY had to give up D’Arnaud, instead of him and Syndergaard.

      … Unless syndergaard was the price of two 3rd string catchers…

      • Hmm, that makes sense. Fuck.

      • Or if AA (known for his due diligence) would have been cognizant of the value of D’Arnaud he could have flipped him to that team for the Mets desired prospects and held on to Noah.

        At the end of the day he was schooled by a qualified GM for a 38 year old novelty pitcher. Regardless of weather or not D’Arnaud or Noah ever pan out their MLB top 15 and 40 prospect rankings respectively at the time should have meant that if they were traded it was for a younger, potential star player who still had the bulk of their MLB career ahead of them.

        • Wow, that deal looks even worse now. At the time, I was under the impression the Jays were acquiring the reigning NL Cy Young winner who had accumulated 13 bWAR over the previous three seasons and was an indisputable top of the rotation talent. Turns out they were just getting a 38-year-old novelty pitcher. At least I can finally see the light!

        • What the hell is a “novelty pitcher” supposed to be anyway? If more of our Jays pitchers could “novelty” their way to 15 WAR over 4 seasons and a Cy Young award, that’d be swell.

        • just want to remind people that syndergaard and d’arnaud haven’t proven a thing yet. D’arnaud has a .414 OPS in Spring Training so far and had a .548 OPS last year. Snydergaard has a 5.19 ERA this spring and may never succeed as a starter. I’m way too lazy to check advanced spring stats and realize these are small sample sizes, but let’s not anoint these guys as Gods just yet. I don’t like the trade, but at this point, its too early to declare a winner.

      • I know that’s what Stoeten is saying, and he could be right, but there are a lot of assumptions involved in that statement. I don’t think this is necessarily a situation (to be fair, Stoeten says this too) where because A=B and B=C then A=C. Different needs are involved (maybe this other team needed a catcher in their pipeline but didn’t want pitching), the optics are involved (why would we think that D’arnaud alone would have gotten the reigning Cy Young winner with years of control left?) etc. Also, the human element of looking at different deals at different times under different lights. I mean, as an analogy, all the time you’ll see a house listed at a certain price, which is then reduced, and then multiple bids bring the selling price over the initial high ask.
        Of all the things I’ve read about the Jays this week that made me want to barf, this one is low on the list. You’re happy with having Dickey or you’re not — and if you’re not that’s fair — but there are too many assumptions involved in this theory for me to get too depressed by it.

        • Also TDA and Noah only went in the deal if Dickey signed an extension. Maybe a possible extension was never offered to the first team.

          I get the point, but it’s not completely an apples to apples situation.

  33. I have chosen not to do drugs but that choice seems futile at this point. Go Jays!

  34. Is keeping Morrow in Buffalo even an option at this point? Can Morrow be sent down for some kind of conditioning and replaced with Rogers/Redmond/? for early April?

    • Why would we want do that? Have their been reports/rumours that he won’t be ready by opening day?

    • I imagine they could dl him since he finished 2013 on the DL.

    • Wow lets calm down here. Morrow is starting the 5th game of the season instead of the second so we speculate he needs to go to AAA for a conditioning stint! Wow. All this means is they want to him to get some more work in to fine tune before his first start. The sky is not falling.

  35. I can’t help but think Syndergaard is going to make me sick for the next decade.

    • I wonder if d’Arnaud plus Sanchez would have gotten the deal done, or if the Mets specifically asked for Syndergaard.

      Aaron might have the better stuff (?), but the majors are littered with flamethrowers who never amounted to much because they couldn’t throw strikes.

      Whereas Syndergaard has been stellar all throughout the minors.

      • If I recall correctly, at the time Sanchez was thought to be the best of the 3. There was concern that Syndergaard wouldn’t be able to develop his secondary stuff enough to be a starter and would end up as a back of the bullpen guy.

  36. I like that Morrow is on a short leash .. because you know the Jays have who to replace him with should he falter????

    • Tomo Okha!!!!

    • Yeah, I’m not sure what kind of threat “shorter leash” is supposed to mean. “If you pitch poorly, we are going to sit you down and replace you with someone who is probably not as good as you, so there.”

      • It means ‘We lied” and are full of BS

      • My guess is that the short leash comment has less to do with this season and more to do with the 10 million dollar team option at the end of the season.

        As in, Brandon Morrow has all the potential in the world, but he’ll be 30 at the end of the year and the team is probably finished writing him cheques based on that potential. As much as I love him, 2014 is probably “put up or shut up” time for B-Mo.

        • And by “less to do with this season”, I meant the spot in the rotation he’s labeled in and/or the possibility of a demotion or whatever people said above.

          As long as he’s healthy I expect the team to keep running him out there, and they’ll judge his future on the results.

        • 10 million dollars to work out, sit in a dug out and be on the DL for 3/4 of a season…. I’d say Brandon Morrow has the best job in the world.

        • Or the short leash comment is completely unsubstantiated and pure nonsensical speculation based on Morrow being pushed to be the fifth starter. Not like baseball analysis from Elliot shouldn’t be taken with a massive pile of grains of salt.

  37. My take on the dickey trade and the article was that AA did misread the market for TDA. But more importantly he and his hordes misread the ability of JPA to actually be the everyday catcher. That was likely the largest mistake of AA’s career……well I’m still hoping that Syndergaard won’t be more than a reliever…..fuck just kick me

    • .194/.227/.365 still makes me laugh.

      • Just another in a 20 year history of kicks in the gut. I used to be able to say that at least the Jays stood a better chance of making the playoffs than the Leafs. Now I don’t even have leaf fans to ridicule……..

    • That is what stings for me – not the overpay for Dickey but the complete mishandling on the catcher position – the most important position other than pitcher. How they put all their eggs in the JPA basket when he had obvious flaws offensively and was clearly below average defensively when it was a big position of strength with D’Arnaud and Gomes near MLB ready and Jiminez in the wings is mind boggling. Huge debacle. The trading from a position of strength concept in cases like this baffles me. Teams win by being strong in areas, staying strong and supplementing other areas to servicability other ways . Once things were more certain and if there were 3 bonifide MLB capable catchers then maybe trade one of them.

    • I’d agree on JPA. I have no understanding of what went on there. He got rid of *every other credible catcher*. The fuck?

      I’ve been thinking for a little while that AA is not a ninja but the worse case scenario. Which is someone who thinks he’s a ninja and succeeds on his first ninja assignment. From then on he thinks he’s SuperNinja. But he isn’t. And he’s vulnerable to exploitation by more experienced ninjas with sharper weapons.

  38. Guys, it’s still early…..

  39. So Stoeten said fucvking constantly to follow him on the Twitter so I am starting a campaign for him to follow my sorry ass.

    Reasons 1 through 10 are explained in the following.


    Sorry the women is on the phone

  40. Maybe someone can referesh my memory,

    but wasn’t this trade shortly after d’arnaud’s potentially career threatening knee injury? We really weren’t sure what he would be when he started playing again. Certainly would have hurt his trade value at the time, which is probably why Syndergard had to be thrown in.

    If so, I’m going to give AA the benefit of the doubt on this.

    • You’re absolutely right. Big tough catchers don’t last long at their position today, someone made of glass will soon be plying his trade at 1st base.

  41. I think the context missing here is the unspecified third team. The point of the quote was that is was THAT team who valued D’Arnaud more than Dickey, not the Mets or the Jays. If the third team was the Astros, then no shit they wouldn’t give up two prospects for Dickey. Of course, the price looked awfully high at the time, and nothing that’s happened since has done much to change that perception.

  42. I wouldn’t read too much into what the Mets do.

  43. AA got rid of the biggest albatross contract for the jays. He traded Thames for delabar. I know everyone hates happ but Brett Wallace was released this week. The cost for a veteran starting pitcher especially a cy young winner is two top prospects. The cubs want Sanchez and stroman for samardzija. How many of us want thst trade?

    • Nobody in hteir right mind would do that, Shark is not a top tier starter and more mid rotation. Sanchez straight up would be a good trade for the Jays given their window of contention.

  44. Hutch sounds like he could be something legit this year.

  45. What are McGowan’s chances of making this team?

    • As a starter? Probably not good.

      He is, however, out of options so I could see the Jays stashing him in the Pen as the 8th reliever (because you know their going to carry eight relievers) and hanging on to him just in case whoever the #5 starter is crashes and burns in the early going.

    • He is a lock to make the team for good reason. Good bull pen piece and it isnt crazy to think he could eventually return to rotation and do well

  46. We eye roll when how arty mentions Sierra is the future and goins is plus and then we take for fact some yarn the New York post is spinning? Wouldn’t get to bent out of shape about it. Darnaud hasn’t proven shit

  47. I like Siddall. Miss Jack’s crankiness but Siddall and Jerry interact well together.

    • Agreed. Both he and Jerry pulled no punches today. I was actually surprised at how bleak Jerry views the pitching situation. Reading between the lines they are in trouble, big trouble. They just don’t have the arms to throw 1500 innings.
      Starting to think AA is just a messenger for the suits. A true baseball man would have done SOMETHING ??? NO ??? The entire off season and he gets : Navarro, Kratz, Getz and NO PITCHING. At any level. No minor league deals ? Our system is that solid ? Clearly AA is stuck with a Cadillac that needs a transmission. Looks great…. but. I hope to god he makes a deal or we are out of this before May 1

      • I don’t wish to incur Stoeten’s wrath, but my hopes are very low.
        We will have a new front office next season.

      • There was really no excuse not to add at least one of Santana or Jiminez.

        Even if you had to overpay, the point of the team is supposed to be to win in 2014. Not have every contract be of amazing value to the front office.

        • These are ESSENTIAL items if you think you want to really compete. 2B, SP, meaningful bench. It is total horse shit that they say they are trying to compete. Yes they added some nice pieces when they did the moves last year but how the fuck do they just stop ??
          AA better be working the phones. I am ready to see a lineup piece sacrificed for a inning eater if we have to. We are fucked. Just fucked. Imagine just one significant injury to the pitchers ? Hello Aaron Laffey

  48. Re: “..why the fuck is Noah Syndergaard a Met???”

    If all things are true it’s because the Jays valued the assets at x, the Met at y, and this other team at z.

    This isn’t the stock market where you can crunch a companies balance sheet and find the true valuation, these are baseball players, there are so many variables that will effect their performance.

    That said, d’Arnaud is a young kid, playing/learning a tough position, in a very unkind media market. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Alderson stretching the truth to protect his player/advertise is player. In a way, it’s kind of his job to do so.

    • I agree.

      However, I also don’t think very highly of D’Arnaud and think he will likely end up in a back up catcher role after a few seasons of mediocrity.

      • There’s a couple of Mets games on this wknd and I want to have another look but I havent noticed him any other time They’ve been on the tube.

        • @ Smasher…no kidding. Remember the hype around JPA? You’d have thought the guy was the reincarnation of Johnny Bench.

  49. Of course it’s spring … etc. etc. … BUT … nice outing by Hutchison.

  50. It never made any sense why the Jays needed to include D’Arnaud AND Syndergaard. Using hindsight, that’s an incredibly better package than the Jays got for Halladay.

    • Hindsight being the key word here.

      • Yes, all things equal the jays got more for Halladay than Mets got for Dickey. Drabek was a little more valuable than Snydergaard at trade time, young Darnaud plus Wallace were more valuable than older Darnaud is now.

    • The jays were forced to trade halladay, to a team that would be able to resign him.

      And the jays turned halladay (and one sandwich round pick + scraps) into dickey, gose, and drabek so i am not too concerned….

      • You mean Halladay and Syndergaard for Dickey, Gose and Drabek. Big difference when you look at it that way. ;)

  51. FWIW:
    I suspect the team in question is Texas as they were rumored to be in on Dickey but not ridiculously so , and they desperateky needed a catcher last year after letting Napoli walk and soto was unsigned at the time so they were desperate for an up and coming catcher. They eventually signed Pierzynski and now they are fuckin around with JPA.
    That being said, I am not pissd about it that much anymore. I am pissed about the lack of visual improvement in this club especially the pitching.
    I’ve watched Morrow this spring and he has been horrid. I hope it is becausehe is working on something, because unless he pitches more like he can with consistency and less like Romero, it could be a steady procession of substandard pitchers all year.
    I know the Blue jays like to say players will regress to the mean etc. However, theyalways forget to mention that also goes for a couple of guys who may go the other way as they overachieved last year, like maybe Janssen, who I think they s/h have traded last year at his peak and now hehas a sore shoulder again. He too is a FA at the end of this year so another Q mark appears.
    I really feel for AA, somewhat, for as things stand now his do nothing strategy better work out, for if it doesn’t Morrow won’t be the only one on a short leash I am afraid

    • I wouldn’t put too much stock into Morrow’s spring performances. He’s barely pitched competitively for the past year and a half. He was pitching great even at the end of 2012, so it seems unlikely he’d suddenly turn into Romero mk 2.

      With that said, I agree about trading Janssen. They should have cashed in on his “proven closer” prestige, especially with the surplus of bullpen arms that has already claimed Wagner as a casualty.

  52. Wow. Goins and Sierra building blocks for the future!!!!! Are the Jays building a straw hut? I seriously doubt that statement has any relevance to the organizational thought process.

  53. Just wondering here – it IS POSSIBLE to acquire other players as the season goes on, correct? I’ve heard of teams actually waiting to assess their on-field talent before deciding to acquire or shed players.
    Hell, I’ve even heard of a seasonal frenzy called the “MLB trading deadline” – this is where teams exchange players in what is called “trades”, no?
    So, basically – the team you having on March-Fucking-14th is occasionally not the same team you end up with, correct.
    Such strange customs you people have – I suggest decaff for most of you.

    • I’m not that mad anymore, I don’t think the team fucked up too bad now that I’ve slept on it a few nights. I can believe Santana strongly preferred NLE to ALE. Even if they offered $16mil, Santana would have good reason to take less to play in Atlanta. His numbers will look better in 2014, which will sway more than $2mil in his favor when it’s time to re-up.

      I bet they legitimately tried for the other pitchers too. It’s just really hard to get good FAs on a team that’s been out of the dance for two+ decades. But I think that fact is what’s behind the fan mentality of this club too.

      I read Royals Review sometimes, their digs at ownership/management are even more scathing than Stoeten’s are to this team. They’ve been out of the dance even longer than us, and stand a worse chance of getting back than we do.

      I don’t think we’ve gone full Royals, like we did in years past. There’s enough good players on the team to make the season watchable too. So long as that remains the case, I’ll continue following the team without getting too mad.

      • Santana was never signing a pillow one-year contract with an AL East team. Makes no sense whatsoever, especially with his questionable track record. It was only a matter of time before some team playing in a nice pitcher-friendly ballpark has a starter go down in ST.

    • It’s also POSSIBLE that an AL EAST team loses the race in the first month of the season. SERIOUSLY…

    • I always think, for contenders, the deadline is to fill holes that develop during the season not to fill holes that exist before the season starts. The Jays could use improvement in the rotation and 2B so no need to wait to improve until 2/3 of the season if over if it could be done before the season when you are a bubble contender where every win counts.

  54. The stand pat plan has already failed. Zero chance the staff as assembled can compete for 162 games. A solid 5 is looking more and more remote.

  55. Looks like Oakland has some pitching problems of their own.
    Parker is off to see Dr. Death on Monday and that is never good.
    Griffin has an elbow problem and figures to open the season on the DL.

    If the Blue Jays pitchers can stay healthy and if Hutch can be
    anything like the guy he’s appearing to be (two VERY big IF’s)
    the light at the end of the tunnel might not be a freight train.

  56. If the Braves had known they have another top SP facing TJ, do you think they would have been in on Santana or let him go to the Jays.

  57. It’s just time for AA to be shown the fucking door. Get somebody with a noggin for trading in for the fire sale. Last thing this clown needs to be in charge of is one more awful trade. This jackass went from “Future, Future, FUTURE!” to “Now, now, NOW!” with seemingly no plan whatsoever. If Mets insisted on Syndergaard he should have just called another team and gotten another team’s #1 for TA as a possibility and then gone back to the Mets with that!” Mets made him a total bitchboy.

    • Actually, piecing off the team for prospects is about the last area I would have total confidence in him excelling.

      It’s how he spent prospects, not acquired them that has to be in question at this point.

    • Lil Owens. I think you and Gord below are the ones bitching. A little late to be complaining about the Dickey trade, isn’t it?

  58. Jays option Neil Wagner. Imagine a team that went with their best roster instead of protecting out of options RP scrubs.
    Or y’know…a team that PLANNED a roster based on the fact that they have twelve RP options, ten of whom can’t be optioned.

    • They really should have traded someone. Wagner’s too good to be rotting away in the minors.

      • Meh… he’s pretty replaceable. Rogers, Jeffress, McGowan are all pretty similar.

        He’s alright, but it’s not like you can trade Wagner or any of the guys above for anything good. Minors is the best option.

    • Jeffries looked really good towards the end of last year too. He I think is a serious sleeper to do well this year. Wagner in AAA for depth in case of injury is great.

  59. I’m sure they would love to make a trade for their out of option pitchers but nobody is beating their door down.

  60. I’ve been one of the biggest doomsday sayers with AA’s inability to obtain any impact starters who would at least push the Redmond/Rogers/Happ/Drabek ugliness into the bullpen or AAA (love Hutchison as #5). But after the Santana fiasco and opening day only weeks away, I’m going to start drinking the kool-aid and hope for a freakishly strong start. Not a 1984 Tigers 35-5 start, but enough to give us some breathing room.

    Then, I’ll take another sip and hope we trade for a Shields type and not have to give up stroman or Sanchez.

    I mean, if Bautista, Reyes, lawrie, melky can stay healthy I think we have the best offence next to Baltimore and we win those 7-6 or 6-5 games.

    Who’s with me?!?!

    • Sweet lord yes !!

    • They have a way better offense than Baltimore with everyone healthy, AINEC.


      That’s a scary lineup. It’s not at all far-fetched to get 4+ WAR from five of these guys. They don’t need stellar pitching to win, just good pitching. Either blow ‘em away early, or keep the games close until the bullpen takes over. It’s gonna be fun.

      • I had to look up what AINEC meant, I’m getting old. Not RADAR old, but old nonetheless.

        • I think if you admit you had to look it up and aren’t embarrassed by it, then it’s a sign of 2nd tier old age, not quite RADAR old age, but still.

          Btw IMHO, (see what I did there?) you should at the very least (ATVL?) get points for knowing it was internet slang.

          • I’m Radar old..I think but I can’t remember what I was typing…fuck I don’t know..was I typing?

            • RADAR old?????
              You say that, like it’s a bad thing.
              In fact , I remember when,when , when.
              Actually I forgot what I was going to say.
              Nevermind,time for a nap.

            • Maybe it’s the hangover …or…

              you’re still under

              DURESS !

      • Sorry, but they DON’T have a better offense than Baltimore; not even close. They’ve got two good power bats in Bautista and EE, but after that a lot of guys who can barely hit .260. Lind can’t hit lefties, Rasmus and Lawrie need to lift their BA by 20 points, and the rest is all a crap shoot. Oh, but there’s always Pillar, who has never seen .200 and the clown Kawasaki, who can’t hit a beach ball with a canoe paddle. I hate the Orioles, but they’ve amassed quite a good lineup, especially if Davis has another season like 2012. Baltimore will torch AA’s pitching staff. The Jays are a total train wreck.

    • Baltimore isn’t likely to get anything offensively from 2B (Weeks/Flaherty), RF (the ghost of Nick Markakis) or LF (Lough, Reimold???). Even Weiters is no guarantee for above average offense at C.

      Infield defense will probably be top notch (Machado, Hardy, Flaherty/Weeks is one of the best), outfield defense is probably below average (I’ve heard David Lough is a good LF, but Jones and Markakis drag them down).

      Starting pitching is decent but unspectacular and has solid depth. bullpen looks iffy, I wouldn’t want Tommy Hunter as my closer for one.

      Wildcards are Gausman, Schoop, probably not Bundy.

      • Wonderful. A stranglehold on 4th.

        • I wouldn’t call it a stranglehold, but just so I dont indulge too much in your negative suckhole-ism, the Yankees hardly have a stranglehold on one of the three spots above them.

          The Yankees will probably have an incredibly weak infield on both sides of the ball, with Brian McCann as the only guy who’s a relatively safe bet for above average production. The outfield will probably be quite good and I suppose Soriano is average-ish at DH. The rotation at first glance looks very strong, and it will probably be fine this season, but Sabathia appears to be done as an above average starter and Nova is a good regression candidate (i defy him to replicate 0.58 HR/9 at Yankee Stadium). Bullpen is meh after Robertson.

  61. Toronto Raptors 2014. That is all.

  62. here’s an outside the box thought… apparently things are not lovey-dovey between the Phillies and Jimmy Rollins at the present time, and the situation is further complicated by the fact that Rollins has an $11mill vesting option in his contract for next year. Would a trade for an out-of-favour Jimmy Rollins be crazy talk?

    Still brings speed and solid defense, even if his power has slipped substantially. He shouldn’t cost much given his age, contract status and relationship with the phillies. He’s also durable as hell.

    Another crazy thought has slipped into my head – JA Happ’s seemingly bullshit injury status. Do you think he was being held out of games in preparation for a trade had the Jays signed Santana? Like if he had a small tweak and the team wanted to absolutely ensure no further injury…. might be a whole other layer of frustration for AA if he had something in the works that was contingent on Santana. I believe Gibby said something to the effect of them making plans that were scuttled by Santana as well.

    That’s all my crazy thoughts for now…

    • Rollins has played exactly one game at second base in his entire career. Even if the Jays traded for him this exact moment, I don’t see him being able to learn the position in just two more weeks of Spring Training and then being able to handle the Rogers Centre turf.

      That said, Ruben Amaro is maybe the dumbest GM in baseball. Maybe AA can say “sure, we’ll take Rollins off your hands for a couple of out-of-options relievers and even pay most of his salary to boot…just as long as you throw Jesse Biddle and Ethan Martin into the deal too.”

    • he sucked last year, but would obviously still be better than goins.

      only prob is who plays SS for the phils then?

      • Not our problem who would play SS for the Phils.

        But if it helps, give them Goins or Kawasaki as both are originally SS.

      • Freddy Galvis. Hes pretty bad, but since when have the phillies been A1 talent evaluators? Plus he’s way cheaper than Rollins, which is probably the larger point.

  63. Mikr McDade is back in yhe fold. Small move but I re ally like it

  64. Hey everyone, remember when Josh Johnson struck out 23, walked 3 and only gave up 12 hits in 20 innings last spring?

    Maybe we don’t anoint Hutch the new roy halladay just yet. or ever

    • So does that logic then work in reverse? Like if he did bad, that would be good?

      Maybe him and President Obama both eat eggs for breakfast. So I guess Hutch is going to let the NSA snoop on our data too.


      • Read your response again and then tell me who’s the fucking idiot.

        Spring training stats are meaningless . But if you want to pretend that hutch is an ace after 10 fucking innings, then by all means

  65. Agreed, idiot.

    When he isn’t kissing Stoetens ass he’s usually making dumb comments.
    I like how Stoeten called him out on his bullshit a few posts ago and then he was all hurt.

  66. A blanket apology to anyone I may have offended do my drunken rants as of late. Please note she is making me do this and I am under duress.

    Sorry, I meant under her dress.

  67. Ladies and gentlemen, the season is saved: Brad Glenn and Chad Jenkins. WOOOHOOO!

  68. And slowly, Jays ‘Fans’ are drifting away. Shit you not.

  69. at least the staff isn’t facing two tommy john surgeries that we know of. at least that’s something. actually, the braves’ staff is probably still as good on paper. hopefully, dickey & buherle get off to good starts this year. maybe all of this negtaivity will cause the team to come together.

  70. Geez, just got reminded about this from MLBTR. In 2009 the Cardinals drafted: Shelby Miller, Matt Carpenter, Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal and Joe Kelley. Miller was the only pick they had in the first round. That organization sure can scout and develop talent. Now if AA could just take notes….

  71. Ummm…who cares if the Met’s value D’Arnaud highly? unless he can show he can stay on the field, he isn’t anything to cry over. He’s what? 26? And he isn’t a major league player yet. Stop the manic-progressive crying over everything!

  72. Actually it’s not so bad. What’s the worst that can happen? We finish last again. That’s what all the pundits are saying and that’s where I think we all think we’re headed. It’s not like last year’s nasty surprise. This year the only surprises are gonna be nice ones. We’re expecting the crap. So we won’t be blindsided.

  73. Gibbons basically hinted early this spring that the home opener wasn’t going to be a young’in, no? Couple that with not wanting to waste the Dickey hangover spot to a soft-tosser like Buerhle and I think this Morrow news is not actually news.

    Not that I agree with it, I think you should be giving your best pitchers the opportunity to throw in the most games possible, so Morrow should be #2. But I get it. It’s a weird game. You’re out of your normal routine with the 30 minute delay for the pre-game festivities and stuff. I can see the justification for not wanting to throw a Hutchison, Stroman or Romero into something like that. I don’t agree with it, but I can see why they want it that way.

    If anything, this might be a bad sign for Happ’s chances to break camp north. You’d think he’d have enough VETERAN PRESENTS to not be percieved by the powers to be as a guy that would shit his pants under the weirdness of the home opener.

  74. The game today isn’t showing up in SN’s guide, all I see is curling. Like watching paint dry watching that shit.

    • Not even on MLB.tv

      On the Jays’ web site it shows that it’s supposed to be on SNET. When was the last game televised, for fuckssakes?

    • Supposed to be televised but I think they changed their programming because I saw a commercial for sportsnet’s next game and it was Wednesday I believe. Nothing mentioned about today.
      Curling, raptors and the marlies games on each of the sportsnet channels.

  75. For fawks sake i was looking forward to a couple of bevy’s and watching the game

  76. Mike Wilner ‏@Wilnerness590 ·2 hrs
    No TV today, and no radio in Toronto because of #RTZ. Find us through the http://mlb.com audio package – it’s free

  77. Drabek,Nolin and Jenkins optioned to Buffalo.No suprise.

    • Nolan’s is a sad case of organizational mismanagement.
      Drafted in 2010 there was no reason to put him
      on the 40 man roster last year.

      Instead, the rush a clearly not ready kid
      to the bigs to pitch 1.1 innings. Brilliant.
      Then they burn his first option; and now his second.

      He should be starting this year in AA with all of his options remaining.
      Instead, he’s looking at being out of options next year
      and will have to make the MLB team or clear waivers.

      For no apparent reason the Blue Jays lose risking an asset
      and the kid is put in a position where he may have to go
      on the DFA carousel when he should be safely protected
      in the organization that drafted him.

      Mind numbing dumb.

      • Don’t disagree.
        It doesn’t make much sense at all and looks like somebody fell asleep at the switch.
        I got nothin’.

        • Dudes, far be it from me to even try to understand that (#**@ing) rule, but from what I see here:


          Nolin was in his 3rd year of pro baseball and at some point last year had to go on the 40 man or the Jays would’ve lost him in the rule 5 draft in Dec 2013. (drafted and signed June 2010, started at Blufield in 2010)

          • Actually in 2013 he was in his 4th year of pro ball and they would have had to place him on the 40 man that year or lose him in the 4th rule 5 draft since his signing. (given that he was 19 when he signed)

            • Thanks for the leg work and the dose of sanity Karl.

            • They would have had to have placed him on the 40 man at the end of the year, right, given that the Rule 5 is in December?

              I think the OP is still correct in that there was no need to add him last season. They should be burning his first option now, not his second.

              • @ Allisauce
                Yeah I guess. I mean as far as I understand the rule (which is not at all). If he had gone on the 40 man in Dec like for example, McGuire, he’d start his 1st option year in 2014. But one headline I read said that they brought him up to replace Happ.

                But now I’m thinking well, that gives them -what?- a 7th year to examine what they havent been able to figure out in 6? It could’ve been they were hoping at the time, where none of their starters were going so well , that if they burned his 1st option in 2013 and he turned out ok, that they’d have another viable starter and would’ve have to worry about Germano or Ortiz or Laffey.

                Btw I’m wondering now what is Nolin’s problem that he can’t pitch in the Majors. He’s a big kid with decent numbers. It just seems like he gets shelled every time he gets a shot. His splits seem to show he’s not good with runners on, so it might be a simple question of tweaking his stretch delivery. I hope they can figure it out. I think he could be pretty good.

                • ” I’m wondering now what is Nolin’s problem that he can’t pitch in the Majors”

                  I’m not sure we know that he can’t? I mean, it’s only 1.1 Innings, and he only has 17.1 in AAA. He’s 24, so no need to be too concerned yet.

                  Maybe they’re just waiting for him to run out of options so it forces their hand in keeping him up.

                  Seems like the team’s MO recently, right? :)

                  • I was more interested in why in the 2 starts (maybe 1 1/2 is more accurate since his 2nd was against ST batters) he’s made in the “bigs” has he been so horrific?

  78. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Draebek pitch himself back up to the bigs this year. Though could be wishful thinking on my part.

    • Crash Davis: You be cocky and arrogant, even when you’re getting beat. That’s the secret. You gotta play this game with fear and arrogance.

      Kyle Drabek: Right. Fear and ignorance.

      Crash Davis: [exasperated] No. You hayseed. It’s arrogance not ‘ignorance.’

    • I’d be very surprised.

      • Drabek’s career seems to be over. He’s 26 and yet to show that he can get AAA players out.

        Were he not acquired in a Halladay trade, no one would talk about him anymore.

  79. How embarrassing
    Only 8 mil spent

  80. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/2013-14-free-agent-spending-by-team-to-date.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    So the list of free agency spending is out.
    Did a little math. The Yankees spent more money in free agency this winter than the bottom 17 teams on the list put together.

    • Otoh there are very few teams that can spend 503 MM in the off season on top of last years 29 MM luxury tax…. if any.

  81. Wow just seen the chart on FA spending per team. The Jays have the distinction of be the penultimate team in free agent signings.
    Only the Pirates beat us by 1 mil. no wonder AA was pissing and moaning about over paying for Dioner.

  82. So Iglesias may be hurt for much of the season, leading to rumours the Tigers turn around and sign Drew. There’s yet another team instantly reacting to a hole in their lineup while the Jays have sat on their hands all winter.

    • No Yancey, you called it correctly the first time.
      It’s a rumour.
      You’re the one who is instantly reacting.
      Stay tuned.

    • Poor Yancey. The Jays didn’t give Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez $50 million. Poor, poor Yancey.

      • I read this morning that the tigers don’t plan on speaking to drew and filing the need from within their organization.

      • Passing on Ervin and Ubaldo is fine, individually. Doing nothing to upgrade the rotation all winter is unacceptable.

        • Isn’t getting a healthy Morrow and Hutchinson back (who were gone for most of last season) sort of an “upgrade” that didn’t cost you a thing?
          Yeah..it’s not as sexy as a primo free agent – but seriously, I’ll take a healthy Morrow or Hutch over a 15M dollars Santana.

          • but why not take them all? It is not either/or here.

            • Santana wanted to go the NL East for one year. Atlanta needed someone. JL missed the news cycle and woke up in whiny mood.

              • Wait, what was whiny about that comment? I was just pointing out that the two weren’t in any way mutually exclusive (as his comment seemed to suggest).

          • You say you will take a healthy Hutch and Morrow. well who says the baseball gods are even offering that? You cant bank on it.

            And Im sure the 15 million dollars Rogers didnt spend on Santana will somehow find its way into a check addressed to you.

            • And you’re banking on…what, exactly with Santana?
              He’s just another crapshoot you’re banking on – just like the crapshoot that is banking on some kind of healthy season from Morrow and Hutch (and ANY other starting pitcher, truth be told)
              Except Santana’s crapshoot doesn’t cost 15M dollars (that could have been used to upgrade second base!)

              • Why on earth is Hutchison considered some sort of big injury risk anyway? He had a very promising rookie season cut short by a freak injury.

                Should the Mets not “bank on” Harvey because he had TJ surgery too?

    • I think you mean: the jays sat on their holes the whole winter

    • Well Yancey sure looks like a fool. After claiming that the Tigers would immediately sign Drew to fill their need, not only are the Tigers not going to speak to Drew, but according to Fangraphs he isn’t worth it to them.

  83. On MLBTR looks like Anderson is really impressing and is behind his injuries. Could be ST propaganda. It is going to be hard this season if all the players that were attainable put together good years. Lets hope we do good enough to not play the “what if” game.

  84. I’m having trouble reconciling and recognizing the endgame to all of this.
    I got ideas and speculation but just not sure the direction it’s all headed.

    • It’s heading down the same road it always has. The road of half measures and ambiguity.

      • That’s the easy way out to explain it.
        Not accurate either.
        Even Stoeten’s changed his tune.

        • I dunno. It seems the more things change the more they’re the same. This team looks like one of the teams my namesake put together.

      • Gord we miss you. If I’m not mistaken you could at least draft. The guy who came after you was a disaster.

  85. Hey Sanchez gets out of jam with a 97 mph fast ball after 5 curves.
    I see a light at the end of the tunnel and for once it’s not a freight train.

  86. Oh my he just gets out of another inning with no runs…..I’m sold

  87. even i can smell a pessimistic moron fart … and above here were a whole twaddle of ‘em

  88. Just 14 days till opening day!

  89. It’s definitely within reason to be frustrated with the Jays, and Rogers, for not ponying up to land a pitcher. They played the market, got the bargain they were waiting for, and cheaped out. But what is most disappointing is their recent draft record, and inability to develop solid-to-good MLB players. The Jays have been awful at developing pitchers for at least 5-years now (likely 10+) and the only players they have drafted, in memory, that has posted 3+ fWAR is Aaron Hill and Adam Lind, and they both quickly became unplayabale for some mysterious reason. One being a very good player for another team with the Jays having nothing to do for it.

    I have no idea what the heck is going on in the farm, but something badly needs to change to help the development of these players to better achieve ceilings.

    • I disagree. I think recent draft record has been fine. They were often lauded for the moves they made during the draft, and before last offseason had built up the farm from one of the worst to one of the best (per industry consensus).
      The issue is with the fact that they traded away a lot of their best ‘stock’ last offseason – which we would have no problem with if there was a new flag or two flying from the roof of the dome – and maybe there is a problem with the player development side of things (John Farrell seemed to think so. And the lack of ML caliber players coming up through the system suggests that something may be wrong), but that’s not the same thing as being bad a drafting.

      • That is to say, I disagree with the first part of your post, not the second.

        • Yeah, I definitely worded that poorly. I like what the Jays have done at the draft. But it’s like the farm is shit creek and the prospects don’t even get a boat, much less a paddle.

    • Do you have any idea what the expected development time is for pitchers, particularly for a team that primarily drafts high school pitchers? If you want to look at the last 5 years, you’re basically complaining that the 2009 draft didn’t work out, since that’s the only one that’s had a chance of having a player contribute in the majors by now. Every draft since then has produced some extremely high-end prospects who are still 21 or younger.

      • True, but unfortunately most of that high-end talent has left the system in order for the MLB team to actually be not terrible. It doesn’t seem like the best way to run a baseball organization.

        • Of course, but I was responding to the poster’s issue with the Jays draft record, which over the last few years, which can be labelled as, at worst, TBD over AA’s tenure.

      • 2009 was a long time ago. 5 years is about right for highschool arms to be helping the big club – less for college picks. Name me one pitcher the Jays have drafted in the last 10-years that has posted 3 fWAR for the Jays in a single season. I can only find two – Gustavo Chacin of all people – and that was in 2005, and McGowan in 2007 who oddly enough hasn’t pitched a full season since.

        The Jays have been great at drafting IMO, but their record of developing solid players is absolutely atrocious.

        • Romero, I guess. Regardless, I’m less interested in what happened 10 years ago than I am in what’s gone on under current management.

          The idea that 5 years is “plenty of time” is a bit short-sighted, too. For reference, the Red Sox have 5 players drafted since 2009 who have made the majors, all at below replacement level to this point. In the much lauded Red Sox prospect pipeline, 9 of their top 20 prospects would have been eligible for the 2009 draft. I doubt there are any complaints about the development of Jackie Bradley Jr., Allen Webster, Matt Barnes, et. al., even though they haven’t made an impact yet despite having “plenty of time”.

    • It’s a good point about player development. When you can’t bring through your own guys properly, you end up having to empty the farm just to have relevant major-league calibre talent on the team.

      Missing out on high-risk FAs doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that the organization doesn’t seem to be that well-run on the whole. On the one hand, you have teams like the Rays and A’s who have literally half the Jays payroll and still manage to make the playoffs year after year… then you have the Jays and Angels who have spent a shitload of money recently but can’t seem to put it together. Makes me wonder about a lot of things.

      For one, I’m skeptical that the horrific rash of injuries over the past couple years can be entirely attributed to bad luck.

      • Yeah me too. There should be alarm bells going off to every other team in the Majors when a team like the Rays can reduce their TJ surgeries to 4 since 1999.*
        Btw I suspect the Jays may beonto something with their Weighted ball programme. But according to Zaun, every player (not just pitchers) in the Rays org performs specific exercises once a week which strenghthen their arms against UCL damage.

        *The latest stats now show 1 out of every 3 pitchers has TJ surgery

  90. It makes me sick to say it but Farrell was right about the farm. The kids always seem to be rushed to the majors with very little preparation and shaky fundamentals. Especially the pitchers. This really has to change for the team to improve. The quality if the draft picks isn’t really in question. What happens afterwards definitely is.

    • I’m curious to know which pitchers you think were rushed. Here are the pitchers drafted in the last 5 years who have made the majors with the Jays:

      - Chad Jenkins – small sample, but he’s been better in the majors than he was in the minors.
      - Aaron Loup – very good reliever, important piece of the bullpen
      - Drew Hutchison – legitimate concerns about the injury, but was that impacted at all by getting called up early? He’s been successful so far, and he’ll likely be an important part of the team in 2014.
      - Sam Dyson – 24 years old reliever when he was called up. Not a lot of experience in the minors, but I find it hard to complain about that.
      - Sean Nolin – the one start hints that he was rushed, but it was still only one start. He had worked his way up through the system and was 23 years old. It’s hard to see that as egregious mismanagement.

      That’s it. That doesn’t seem like a particularly bad record of “rushing” prospects since AA took over. In the meantime, we’ve heard just as many complaints that the Jays baby their young starters too much. It can’t be both… can it?

      • If I recall correctly, Drabek made an unusually fast trip through the system.

        • He pitched half a season at AA while with the Phillies, then made 27 more starts at AA in the Jays system before making his debut. I may be wrong, but wasn’t that essentially the highest level he was going to reach with the Jays since they were hesitant to expose their top pitching prospects to the PCL? To me, 31 starts at AA seems like a reasonable callup time for a highly-touted 22-year-old pitching prospect.

    • AA’s drafting strategy differs fundamentally than JPR’s.
      AA is drafting high-ceiling high school players – players that are 17-19 years old. Those guys will take a minimum of 5 years, on the average, to even make it to the big league.
      JPR’s strategy was to take college players that had either gone undrafted, or had re-entered the draft after playing university ball. He wanted to sign them to an affordable dollar amount, as they had no options – and in the hopes that they would be MLB-ready in a shorter time.
      Seems to me that the college players that were available in the draft were the best of the leftovers. Sure, you might get them through the minors to the Big Leagues quicker…but you’re probably looking at lower-ceiling guys to begin with. With AA’s strategy – you are looking at better players taking longer.
      What would you rather have?

  91. Any chance AA is sitting on all of these relievers with the hope some team is not happy going into the season with their current bullpen and is willing to swap a 2B or #5 SP?

    The Angels come to mind.

    • I assume the plan has been to trade some of them, but I think even aiming for even a mediocre 2B or fifth starter is a bit much without adding something more to a package. I think the chances of pulling off another League-for-Morrow type trade are pretty slim.

      • If Santos or Janssen were a part of the package, you might get something better than a Goins.

        Also, didn’t I hear Blanton is looking better? Anything for innings!

  92. Brandon Morrow got roughed up last week by a bunch of 16 year olds from Canada. I’m a little disappointed to learn he’s starting opening day against the yankees. I can already see him getting pulled in the first or second inning. Considering there is not much hope this year you would think the team could at least try for a good result for the only sellout of 2014.

    • If I was Brandon Morrow and I was pitching against a “bunch of 16 year olds” I’d probably use that as a great time to work on some shit and not worry one lick about results.

      I do like your ability to see the future though, can you tell me next week’s lotto numbers?

    • You understand that spring training is not about winning, right?
      Pitchers go out there and might throw 15 curveballs in a row, just to get the feel right. Or throw nothing but fastballs inside – just to get the groove.
      Hitters might swing at nothing but breaking balls…or try to push everything between first and second.
      The fact that Morrow got hit means nothing without context.

    • From what I heard, Morrow spent the outing throwing nothing but fastballs and splitters. So, again…not really the whole story, is it?

  93. Then why have the Jays taken Morrow out the rotation for the week and are now calling him the fifth starter directly following that bad outing. Sure, you might get a few mulligans for “working on stuff”, but he’s clearly been sent out of camp to a lower pressure situation and failed miserably. The Jays actions after this clearly denote their displeasure with his performance, whether Morrow pretends it doesn’t matter or not.

    • They are pushing him back to the 5th game so that they don’t have ja happ or ricky romero on the mound for the home opener, because apparently that game means something more.

      and also they said they wanted to give him a little bit extra time.. I don’t see how Morrow would have any shorter of a leash compared to happ, rogers, romero, hutchinson, redmond, etc .

  94. Brunt mentioned that Morrow is on a tight leash, which means his starts actually do count this spring. They want to know he’ll be healthy and produce. All the pitchers have been stretched out quite a bit earlier than usual to try and see who is going north with the team.

    The point is, it all counts. Sure, it doesn’t count in terms of wins and losses, but performances and options are playing a major role at this camp than previous ones.

  95. “Chirp! Chirp! Chirp!”
    - Crickets

  96. If Drew doesn’t sign until after the draft, does Boston still recieve a suplimental round draft pick?

    • No, they get nothing.

      • Well, that would be an enjoyable way to screw Boston. Goins for the first half of the year then sign Drew once compensation is gone.

        • We would NOT be in the running if he made it to June. The draft pick comp is the only thing keeping us in the conversation, rightly or unrightly so.

  97. Adam Lind: “This is Jose Bautista’s team. He has the personality. He has the knowledge. You can ask him anything about a pitcher. You can ask him anything about any subject. He takes pride in knowing what is going on in the league and with his team. Sometimes veteran players can be intimidating. Troy Glaus was intimidating, so was Roy Halladay a little. Not Jose. Jose will talk to anyone about anything you want. I saw him earlier this spring going out of his way to talk to a class-A catcher.”


    • I find it rather impossible to get a read on Lind. He seems like quiet guy but then on some topics he’s weirdly outspoken. It’s good to hear a complete vote of confidence from within the clubhouse, if for no other reason than to combat all the moronic talk of clubhouse cliques and Bautista losing the respect of the clubhouse by arguing with the umps. Nails indeed.

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