griffbag

Hey! It… uh… it’s a Griff Bag!

That is, our traditional, caustic, foul-mouthed hijacking of Richard Griffin’s latest mail bag over at the Toronto Star. Because… um… why not?

If there’s a question you’d like me to answer, submit it to Griffin here, and maybe he’ll select it for a future mail bag. Fingers crossed!

Q-Professor Griff Stoet,
Do you believe the Jays are in rebuild mode if they are not in contention at the all-star break?

I don’t mean completely, but position players like Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, Adam Lind, Colby Rasmus, Melky Cabrera and Brett Lawrie could all be dealt for younger guys and prospects close to MLB ready.

Even with Jose Reyes’ contract he has value to teams right now. Dealing some of these guys smartly, in line with our prospects already coming up, could put the Blue Jays in a good spot for 2015-16.

Trust me, it’s depressing for me to write this, but not as depressing as this off season has been.

It’s actually almost an exciting idea for me now.

Diego from Toronto.

You… don’t mean completely??? How the fuck does trading all of those guys not amount to a not-complete rebuild? Brett Lawrie won’t be a free agent until after 2017. Bautista, Dickey, Lind, and Encarnacion have below-market deals with options that can keep them here until after 2016. I mean, I understand that it might be an idea to move a bunch of players at the deadline this July if the club is out of it, but the kind of complete overhaul you’re talking about just isn’t necessarily realistic.

Those guys can still be tremendous building blocks — along with Jose Reyes, who is signed through 2017 at minimum — of a very, very good club, even as they age.

That doesn’t mean that the Jays have to keep them, but it certainly doesn’t mean they need to deal them or can’t make them part of the next phase that this club enters, either.

More realistic trade possibilities? Well… Rasmus and Cabrera are set to be free agents at the end of this season, but even dealing them would be complicated — Melky still has major questions to be answered about how healthy he is post-tumour, and how good his is post-PEDs, while Colby, if he plays well enough to maintain trade value and isn’t re-signed, will likely warrant a qualifying offer next winter, meaning that whatever the Jays get for him has to be at least as valuable as the draft pick they’d lose out on getting if he moves elsewhere. And if Melky keeps playing as well as he has this spring, the qualifying offer could certainly be a consideration for him, too.

In other words, as tempting as fans find it to fantasize about how the club might blow this all apart, it’s just not quite so simple. Plus, it’s not like it’s the core guys aren’t holding up their end of the bargain — it’s not like the core “doesn’t work,” it’s that the club hasn’t been able to build the right group of players around them. And this year, as thin as the roster looks on the surface and as hard as it is to feel confident in the health of guys like Brandon Morrow and Dustin McGowan, upon whom so many of the team’s early-season hopes rest, it’s not like it’s impossible that it works really, really well, either.

Regardless, while there might be some potential moves to made to better setup the club for the future, the full scale cathartic rebuild being hoped for by negative suckholes who don’t even like baseball and just want an instant gratification World Series probably isn’t in the cards. Nor should it be.

 

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten:

Could you please remind of those in the boat that contained the boatload of upper-level prospects that were traded to get J.A. Happ, Reyes, Mark Buehrle and R.A. Dickey?

How have they fared in the years since?

Bill Cooper
Kingston

Uh… really?

OK, here goes:

For R.A. Dickey: This is the one that really hurts. Noah Syndergaard took a step forward last year, dominated double-A, and just looks like a real fuckin’ Texas horse in the making, with a big fastball and improving off-speed stuff. He still hasn’t done anything at the big league level, but at this point he’s easily better regarded than Aaron Sanchez, which ought to say a lot to Jays fans frothing at the mouth for Sanchez to be the ill-advised white knight designated to ride in and save the club’s season. And then there’s Travis d’Arnaud, who reportedly didn’t have a great spring, and who has had trouble staying on the field, but who could be a tremendous catcher if it all clicks. Tough, tough losses, both of them, especially considering the deficiencies the Jays tried and failed to fix over the winter. Since their big league impact has as yet been zero, for a win-now team they’d not be the worst losses, except the Jays, through inaction, tried very hard this winter to abdicate their position as a win-now team, making the deal now seem kind of dumb as fuck. (Though it wasn’t before, and don’t let any clown ever tell you otherwise).

For Reyes and Buehrle: First off, Josh Johnson was part of that trade too, and as much as Jays fans want to revise how they think of the deal to count Johnson as “nothing,” the club certainly traded for the chance that he might have been as good as he was in 2012, and that chance certainly had value, even if it turns out to have been a very, very incorrect thing to have used prospect capital on. Even still, they didn’t give up a tonne. Sure, Jake Marisnick has had a good spring, and Henderson Alvarez had a nifty 2013 (and a no hitter), though he kept balls in the yard at an unsustainably low rate. Meanwhile, Adeiny Hechavarria was one of the worst regulars in baseball last season — turns out, no matter how badly Alex Anthopoulos wants to think otherwise, that all the other tools in the world can’t make a terrible hitter a serviceable big leaguer — and Justin Nicolino and Anthony Descalfani continue to remain warm bodies and probably not a whole lot more, though most think Nicolino is an eventual big leaguer thanks to his outstanding command. He could even be better than that, I hear, if he finds a weapon of a pitch he can use to get more swing-and-miss, but… uh… so could I.

As for the Happ deal, I refer you to what I wrote last month about the woes of the prospects moved in that deal: Asher Wojciechowski is tenth on Baseball America’s list of the top Astros prospects, twelfth for Minor League Ball, and doesn’t make the the top tens from KLaw and Baseball Prospectus, or the top fifteen at FanGraphs. Dave Rollins has had some success as a pro, but only scrapes into the honourable mention at Minor League Ball — not even necessarily in the top 20. Joe Musgrove, the supposed hidden gem of the deal, turns 22 next month and has yet to play above rookie ball. Carlos Perez and Kevin Comer aren’t found on any of the lists either — though, like all of these guys, are not yet non-prospects, since it’s important to remember what a sickeningly loaded system Houston has built. Still, though!

In other words, pretending that it’s somehow the worst deal ever made by Alex Anthopoulos is kinda dumb. He’s done way worse. Shit, on an ideal Jays Opening Day roster there’d probably be four players he dumbly guaranteed multi-year money to sitting in the damn minor leagues! (Romero, Happ, Thole, Izturis).

 

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,
I’ve been following the spring training games from afar, and particularly those by Miami. Seems to me that Henderson Alvarez, Jake Marisnick and Adeiny Hechavarria look like they have the potential to be a solid core for the team in the future. And not a distant future, either. Now, I love watching Jose Reyes play, and teamed with Brett Lawrie, the left side of our infield looks like it will be awesome for years to come, but I can’t help but think that we gave up too much.That’s a lot of solid talent. And wouldn’t Henderson Alvarez look good in the Jays’ fifth starter spot about now?

B.W., Vancouver

Uh… really?

Alvarez’s no-hitter was cool and I don’t wish him ill, but would I take him in my rotation over Drew Hutchison and a supposedly-healthy Dustin McGowan? Maybe. He’d be in the conversation. Maybe I’m horribly biased, but though he had great peripherals last year, and was a 1.9 WAR pitcher by both Baseball Reference and FanGraphs, I’m just not sold on him. Again, his HR/FB rate was absurdly low last year, and he still issues too many walks and too few strikeouts. I mean… he’s alright, but would I write in to a national baseball writer’s mail bag to piss and moan about it? Hardly.

Those guys seem like they have good futures, though. Maybe. It’s just… they’re guys. If Marisnick figures it out — especially if Gose doesn’t — it might kinda hurt, but even still, I’ll take a couple years of Buehrle and a number of years of Reyes for that. For sure. Even if it, apparently, has brought the club up against it’s ownership-imposed dumb-as-fuck greedhead payroll limit. Even if!

 

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten
Looking at the pitching that got sent to the minors it struck me that the Jays are getting a little fixated on options. Kyle Drabek and Sean Nolin (one is not good enough and one isn’t anywhere near ready) made sense. I know you don’t like to lose a player, but in this instance why not send Jeremy Jeffress down and keep either Chad Jenkins or Neil Wagner up? They are both better, though different pitchers. If somebody grabs Jeffress so what, he is hardly irreplaceable and the season is not likely to hang on his absence at the plate. Maybe start the season with the best players for a change.

On a brighter note I like the look of Dioner Navarro behind the plate—I know the story is he is not to be going to last a full season. Is that thought down to wear and tear or has lack of opportunity of recent time not given him chance to show he can?

Thanks
Frank Taker, Prescott

Let’s be clear: I hate the eight-man bullpen thing the Jays are far too willing to do, even though it’s slightly more palatable given where starters Dustin McGowan and Brandon Morrow will be at when the club breaks camp. So… in a way I agree that risking losing Jeffress — who is currently behind Janssen, Delabar, Santos, Rogers, and maybe even Redmond on the right-handed reliever depth chart — but… it’s kinda hard to piss and moan about one guy getting some useless spot where he’s not going to get used near enough instead of some other guy getting some useless spot where he’s not going to get used near enough.

Jenkins and Wagner have options. It sucks for them, but… we’re talking about the thirteenth pitcher on the staff here. If keeping a guy in the organization is at stake, that’s fine. It’s not really a real roster spot. Certainly not worth worrying about — and certainly not on the behalf of Chad Jenkins and Neil Wagner. Either would slot in fine as the fourth-or-fifth right-hander in a too-big bullpen, I guess, but… I just can’t imagine giving a fuck.

As for Navarro, I’m actually optimistic, too. And I base that, of course, on absolutely nothing (which, to be clear, is actually more than this club got from its useless fucking shitty fucking insufferably arrogant and clueless catchers last year). HEYO!

 

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,
After listening to the interviews with Alex Anthopoulos in the wake of Ervin Santana’s decision to take his talents to Atlanta, where Alex said an awful lot in saying nothing at all, my first thought was that I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of his office when he found out that he failed to get Santana. My second thought turned to Jose Bautista. Do you think that, going forward, the negotiations that appeared to end sourly between Anthopoulous and Jay Alou will have an effect on the relationship between the GM and Bautista, given that Jose is Alou’s most notable client?

Thanks,
Alex H, Toronto

Bautista’s under contract. He’s paid well. He’s not a free agent for three years, when he’ll be heading into his age 36 season.

If it’s in the financial interest of both sides at some point to extend the deal, they’ll extend the deal. That’s how it works. The other stuff is pretty hopelessly irrelevant, even though… yeah, you might hear about it, given that it’s an easy narrative to poke at.

Meh.

 

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten:
Brendan Kennedy’s Thursday essay implied a wee bit of indifference on Dustin McGowan’s part about staying with the Jays (“Being out of options isn’t a bad thing,” he said, “if things don’t work out here, maybe there’s another team they will work out with”) and some indifference on the Jays’ part about retaining Esmil Rogers (Kennedy concludes that Rogers will “more likely end up on long relief or lost on waivers”).

I realize that McGowan is probably being more philosophical than anything at this point after everything he’s gone through. But it got me to thinking. Is there a team out there that might trade, say, a proven 3, 4, or 5 starter for two major-league-ready bullpen arms who can double as long relievers/spot starters? Maybe include a prospect in the deal? Our bullpen is deep and it’s a shame to let either of them go for nothing. But then again maybe teams don’t want to trade for out-of-options players when they can potentially get them on waivers? A Rogers/McGowan package, though, might be different.

Matthew McKean, Ottawa

Obviously things have changed since this question was posed, but to answer it: no. At least, not the kind of “proven 3″ or even the four you’re talking about. We’ve surely learned by now how much pitching depth is required to even come close to being competitive in the big leagues, so a team would have to have a lot of it to be willing to make that kind of deal, not to mention some kind of weirdly dumb reluctance to simply making a starter, who they think could give them 200 innings if there were room, into a reliever. If you’re talking about a five — the kind of Todd Redmond or J.A. Happ that every team possesses — then sure, someone would trade that for legitimate front-end bullpen pieces, but why would they do so with something more valuable? Bizarre trades happen, for sure, but the Jays almost turned Sergio Santos into Brett Anderson this winter, and while there’s a lot to like about what he has been able to do when healthy, that’s a great reliever for a starter who is, at best, a Morrow/McGowan level question mark in terms of health. Continuing to add pieces to make a quantity-over-quality deal that might satisfy the computer in whatever video game you play just isn’t very realistic. It happens, sure, but that Anthopoulos hasn’t fallen ass-backwards into such a bargain as yet is hardly some kind of knock.

 

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Comments (87)

  1. Another pre-5am post? I like this.

  2. The guy in that last question meant well, but you see that all the time – why can’t my team trade 7 nickels for a quarter? Isn’t that a good deal for the other team? No, it’s not, in baseball a quarter is worth more than 5 or 7 times a nickel.

    • Not to mention, is there really such thing as a “proven” #5? Or #4 for that matter?

      Seems to me you’re in that spot because you HAVENT proven anything, other then that you’re proven to be average at best.

    • In my day, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you’d say.

      • The important thing was I had an onion on my belt – which was the style at the time.

        • They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.

      • My story begins in nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say “dickety” because the Kaiser had stolen our word “twenty”.

    • That’s not even 7 nickels for a quarter though. That’s like a nickel and a dime for a quarter. People really have no clue when they imagine these trades.

  3. Regarding the 8 man bullpen; I don’t like it, but IF they are going to insist on having it, I’d much rather have Jeffries filling it than one of the younger optionable arms. If injuries become an issue in the pen, I want to be able to call up one of these younger guys, and have them be fresh from pitching regularly in the minors, than to suddenly throw them into higher leverage situations after having pitched an inning a week for the previous 2 months.

  4. The Mariners cut Randy Wolf in a very dickish way yesterday, as I’m sure you’ve heard. He would play for dirt cheap and might be a good alternative to McGowan at 5. Think AA would go for it? He had a decent spring and looked like he was destined for Seattle’s rotation before their dysfunctional front office reared its ugly little head…

  5. Is it just me or was that kind of a decent mailbag?
    Some of the specifics were mildly retarded, and the revisionist history of the Mathis trade is kind of annoying, but for the most part it seemed like their inquiries were based on decent ideas.
    - AA’s fascinations with keeping all his fringe players
    - Should the Jays do a mini rebuild if out of it in July
    - Is there anyway to move the excess bullpen/a prospect for a starter

    It’s been far worse, I guess is what I’m saying.

    • Stoets nailed it with the tradeable pieces, although it sure seemed like Bautista’s name was floating around at the start of the off-season and wouldn’t shock me if he did either ask for a trade or was sacrificed for some youth moving forward along with Melky and Colby.

    • I mostly agree, but I love how that first question basically says “I don’t think they should do a complete rebuild, they should just trade everyone who has any kind of value.” That’s kind of the definition of a “complete rebuild”.

      • Trade Bautista, but maybe we should keep Ryan Goins.

      • I don’t know. I read it as those people are suggestions for ttrades, not that they should tease everyone of them. I think, (I hope) what that guy meant was that all would bring back decent value…. Or he’s retarded, I dunno.

  6. I think the Jays live in fear of being short on arms in the days following a long extra inning game, hence the 8-man bullpen.

  7. Have to disagree about Batista. Judging on my read if him and his personality (which is admittedly a crap shoot, but watching a guys body language and hearing them speak and following their twitter for several years, you can put a few pieces together, even without actually knowing them) I think he really wants to win and he’s starting to get frustrated with management.

    I absolutely think its possible he asks for a trade if they shit the bed thus year. Maybe even say its likely.

  8. Why on Earth would you want to trade away Brett Lawrie in a rebuild, anyway? He’s only fucking 24 and already projects to be one of the better third basemen in baseball.

  9. As always, the superior answers are here.

    Just one thing Stoten, it always seems that you’re able to find issues with jays prospects only when they’ve left the club. When I made similar comments about many of AA’s high picks that still belong to Toronto (not ranked highly by the experts, slow progression, yet to have appeared above high/low A), I was bashed pretty hard. I’m not willing to call those trades losses for the same reasons you don’t, but that kind of logic forces us to accept that as of now (sure, the future can hold anything) AA has not proven to be the best at drafting, or perhaps developing players.

    • Come on man. You have to be pretty willfully blind to not see the way in which Stoeten tempers his comments about prospects – both internal and external to the organization. Its a natural tendency to try to find warts on a guy once they’ve traded him to another club, but Stoeten has explicitly stated that on multiple occasions. He’s also been fairly blunt about the ceiling of lesser prospects – especially those who the fan base elevates because of first impressions (Arencibia, Alvarez, Sierra, Lawrie etc. etc. etc.).

    • I don’t think that’s a fair analysis of the prospects who are still with the club, either. Of all the current Jays prospects, Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez are the closest to being major league ready. Sanchez was part of AA’s first draft as GM, and I don’t think anyone would argue that he’s been slow to progress. That’s just how player progression and development works when your draft focuses almost exclusively on high school prospects.

      Think about it this way: the Jays generally allow players to play at one level each year with a taste of a higher level at the end of the season unless they prove they’re clearly too good for that level (the way Pillar has the last couple years). The progression should look something like this:

      Year 1 – Rookie/Low-A
      Year 2 – Lansing
      Year 3 – Dunedin
      Year 4 – New Hampshire
      Year 5 – Buffalo

      That would put a high-school draftee in Buffalo at 22-23 years old. There’s nothing at all wrong with that developmental path, and most of the Jays better prospects are right in line. Sure, it would be nice to see someone break out and force their hand once in a while, but that doesn’t happen very often with any team.

  10. To be fair to the first guy, he said IF they are out of it by the all star break. I hope that isn’t the case, but if it is, here’s the problem with our core: great as they are, we just had an off-season that ultimately achieved nothing. So if we are out of it this year, why would we expect a different off-season next year? No big money is going off the books. We’ll be in the same position, but a year older.

    I remain hopeful. I even think our rotation could be great (if healthy). But if we have health and just aren’t good enough, I think we really are in a purgatory of some sort with guys like Reyes, Buehrle, even Bautista.

    • I think I agree. The core is strong — it’s the roster periphery that’s atrocious — but if this core hasn’t been able to overcome the team’s deficiencies after a season and a half, it would take a call from ownership saying “we’ll give you the money in November to complete this damn thing” for me to lean against blowing it up. Another mediocre season with another stagnant offseason would do nothing but delay the inevitable collapse. In today’s landscape, if you’re not able to win 90 it’s probably better to be a 70 win team than an 80 win team. I’d hang onto Lawrie and probably even Edwin barring a massive offer, but the age and salaries of Dickey, Buehrle, Reyes, and Bautista would have me sending out flyers in July.

      Lets just hope the team starts hot and plays well, and shit, maybe we could even be buyers at the deadline.

    • Agree. IF they are out of it by July it could be time to do the full blow up. If the core hasn’t succeeded in a year and a half why continue the medicority? Could get a boat load of talent back trading Jose’s, Rasmus, Cabrera, EE, Lind, Jansen, Santos Dickey, Morrow, Buehrle.

      Maybe you could go for a mini rebuild and just try to move Jansenn, Cabrera but that would only make sense if they are willing to commit to the win now mode and supplement the team in the offseason with FA signings (which they werent this year).

      I just hope they dont either a) overpay for MLB talent at the deadline just to make a futile run at playoffs or b) stand pat with current roster if it ends up not being able to win and having the core talent depreciate then never get anyhting back for it

      • “…. it could be time to do the full blow up. ”

        Makes you wonder where they’d be today if there hadn’t been such a huge shit laid last year. I’m not an owner/management apologist, but I have sympathy for their position. They have no idea what they’ve got a year after their big splurge.

    • I do agree, but last year it was the core that was hurt. Lawrie, Bautista and Reyes all missed significant time. Colby missed some games too from taking balls to the eye instead of the chin.

      Health will be integral, but it’s the core and staff that has to stay healthy. Same could be said for 29 other teams, though.

  11. I dream of watching Tanaka get crushed in the homer dome and Dusty goes 6+ for the Win.

    oh how sweet that would/will be.

    come on Baseball, i have missed you so.

  12. “Plus, it’s not like it’s the core guys aren’t holding up their end of the bargain — it’s not like the core “doesn’t work,” it’s that the club hasn’t been able to build the right group of players around them”

    True, and that one reason why they have serious trade value. Everything about them that says the jays should keep them (successful players, team friendly contracts, age in lawries case) are also reasons why teams will pay a lot to get them.

    if the jays are out of it come mid season, they should seriously consider extracting maximum value for a couple of the guys if the return is near major league ready or in fact, major league ready talent.

    • I dont know if the statement is true. The core didnt win last year and if they are out by mid season they wont have won this year either. Its easy to blame the lack of support, in either case the team isnt winning with the core. Agree with sacrifice that they have big trade value – if the good team on paper doesnt win for whatever reason seems like a good idea to get maximum talent back in hopefully overpays from bubble teams at the deadline or next offseason once teams are out / cant afford on FA market guys. How long do you go on with the team not winning and the players losing trade value?

  13. nice read but Santos cant qualify as a great reliever. He hasn’t proven any durability to be great. Great talent perhaps. As for the Dickey trade, what made it bad then and worst now is a) his age b) buying high after an outlier season. the Marlins trade was great at the time and is still good now.

    • If the Jays get a couple seasons out of Dickey that are on par with his 2010-2011, where he put up 3.6 bWAR each year, then the deal probably won’t look that bad. He doesn’t have to win the Cy Young to make it palatable, he just has to be very good, which he was for three years prior to the trade.

      Of course, the success of any future-for-present type trade is probably predicated primarily on the success of the team, so Dickey contributing to a playoff appearance would likely make it worthwhile.

  14. Seeing Alvarez’s name here made me think—would I rather have him in this rotation? Probably not, and considering that he was pitching for us 2 years ago, that says something.

    • 2.6% HR/FB just screams unsustainable. Especially in the ALE.

      • Or maybe it screams “this pitcher does remarkably well at not giving up home runs on fly balls”. Surely it would go up at Rogers center but dont think you can just dismiss that great result on statistical anomaly and need to consider there could be a reason related to how he pitched that explains it at least partially.

        • No, it doesn’t.

          He could have been doing something to help it, but not to suppress it to an unheard of rate. This isn’t HR/BF, it’s HR/FB.

        • Looking back as far as HR/FB rates go (2002), the best career rate belongs to Matt Harvey at 6.0%. I somehow doubt that Henderson Alvarez has found a way to keep his rate at somewhere under half those of the best pitchers in the game.

  15. “Bautista’s under contract. He’s paid well. He’s not a free agent for three years, when he’ll be heading into his age 36 season.
    If it’s in the financial interest of both sides at some point to extend the deal, they’ll extend the deal. That’s how it works. The other stuff is pretty hopelessly irrelevant, even though… yeah, you might hear about it, given that it’s an easy narrative to poke at.”

    I’m sure Steve Simmons will dig his troll claws into this at some point to get the Idiot Brigade into a lather.

  16. The last question in the mailbag brought up the idea that McGowan isn’t loyal to the Jays in some way – it’s worth noting that in John Lott’s recent article, McGowan said that the Jays are probably the only organization in baseball that would have stuck with him for so long and he was grateful for that.

  17. I’m glad to see after how things played out last year, AA isn’t afraid to be bold and give the 5 spot to mcgowan.

  18. my first sick day in years, its 9am and i’m already bored as shit.

    I need some good jays news

  19. Bobby Abreu looks to get his release from the Phils. I know he’s older than dirt but dude can still get on base and hit for more pop than Sierra. Discuss!

    • i doubt Abreu (who has ISO’d an abysmal .112 and .100 over the last 2 years) will hit for more pop than Sierra. He can get on base fine, but unfortunately he’s a left-handed bat and therefore has no place on a team that already employs Lind, Rasmus, Goins and Thole.

      • I generally agree… He has looked in better form this spring and actually has wacky reverse splits (SSS and all). But still older than dirt. He is the kind of guy that could have been a difference maker for the team 4-6 seasons ago…

    • we need the RH bat

    • He’s so slow that he’s usually got pigeon shit all over his shoulders.

  20. Not that it matters but I give the AA Worst Trade Ever Award to Frankie Francisco for Mike Napoli. I know we had “2″ catchers at the time and not many would have predicted the resurgence he had… but he had all but already shifted to playing first base. That would have been a game changing lineup improvement.

    • Texas Rangers send Mark Teixeira to the Atlanta Braves for Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, Beau Jones and Jarrod Saltalamacchia

    • Seattle Mariners send Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek to the Boston Red Sox for Heathcliff Slocumb

    • And the way it actually should be looked at is AA dumped 100 million dollars of a talent depleted Vernon Wells for Frank Francisco.

    • Gomes, he’s undervalued, and he was still awesome…26, they dropped the ball not identifying how good he was behind the plate. great framer, guns down baserunners pissed away huge value there.

  21. (1) If Jays aren’t contending by the break, have to give serious consideration to trading guys like Bautista, Buehrle, etc.
    (2) Love how so many guys think our bullpen “depth” is something other teams would trade useful guys for. It ain’t. Maybe you could flip Janssen (the “proven closer”) for a few prospects, but another GM would have to be nuts to give a solid starter for a couple of fungible bullpen pieces.
    (3) Agree with Stoet that Snydergaard is the one that likely got away. Guys we gave away to the Marlins might be OK, but nothing special – although both trades look more curious/questionable if we’re not trying to win now. Happ deal has essentially been garbage for garbage. If we’re going to criticize a trade, how about the return for Doc? Hasn’t exactly been much and isn’t looking like that will change.

    • d’Arnaud still looks legit.

      • Agree he’s very good behind the plate. The bat is Arencibia bad but he’s got walks and it’ll probably come around. Geez we’re getting lots of Mets this year during ST.

    • If this team is out of it by the deadline, I’d look to trade Rasmus, Melky, Bautista, Reyes, Buehrle, Morrow, Dickey, and pretty much all the big bullpen pieces we have right now.

      Only two I would look to keep would be Lawrie and Edwin, though I’d be tempted to move Edwin too. You could get a mountain of prospects and look to build around something that lines up with the likes of Hutchison, Stroman, Sanchez and Lawrie.

      And I say this without the least bit of bitterness or anger. Obviously I’d like them to contend, but if it doesn’t happen, it’s exciting to thing what these players can be turned into.

      • *think

      • Nah, would keep Reyes unless he is having a year that really inflates his value. Other teams are not so stupid as to sense the risk. He is worth more to the Jays than he’ll yield in trade at present. As Stoets says, too, Bautista and Edwin are on generally team-friendly deals, too.

  22. I am taking the OVER on the Vegas line for the Jays this year, it’s 79.5
    I am going to drop $2000 on them and use the winnings to buy me and the ladyfriend a cheap week in Cuba come December. Fuck it.

    I am willing to go on record on this wager (post pics on my webpage) and take my lumps if need be, but I think this team has all the parts to win 90 games. I mean, come on, they are the SAME FUCKING TEAM PREDICTED TO WIN THE 2013 WORLD SERIES, minus JJ and JPA (good fucking riddance). Am I drunk as fuck here or does this seem like a sure thing?

  23. I thought the question about what happened with Santana would have more effects on Alou rather than it would with AA. If I was Jose and my agent pulled that crap (backing out of a deal after it was agreed) then I’d be tempted to fire that agent for using my team like that. I’m sure Alou had some explaining to do when it was learned that Santana fled to Atlanta the way that he did.

    If Alou and Santana backed out of a done deal to go to Atlanta, which is what AA suggested, I bet you (Andrew) a loone that Joey Bats kicks Alou to the curb within the next two seasons and picks up a new agent. I’m sure he’s pissed about that. I know I would be.

    • It’s not a huge thing, but that $14.1 MM seemed like an insult to me. I got the sense that either Alou or Sanatana got the Braves to up their bid by 100K to conveniently claim that they went with the “higher” bid.
      Sleazy.

  24. AJ got 6Ks in 5 IPs today: no runs.

    Hutch had no runs in 5.1 IPs but gave up 1H & 3BB. I’ll take that.

  25. Yet to look into it but Henderson’s recent success could simply be weaker lineups and a bigger park… he was a filthy man when he was on (as we all know) and loved watching him pitch on a good day but the low HR/FB is likely just due to his surroundings… if he has developed his off speed stuff he could have a great run and I wish him the best…

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