santosnavarro

Well here’s something that probably should turn into a regular feature, and maybe is finally starting to: a collection of thoughts on what went on over the weekend that aren’t really about the weekend — especially when they don’t show up until Wednesday! …

About Last Night 

Dustin McGowan may have saved his job in the rotation last night, only to have the bullpen make a fairly convincing case for why he should lose it and return to their midst. That’s maybe unfair (and probably not the way it’s going to shake out anyway), given how strongly McGowan finished and how few hits he gave up — even if his outing was hardly perfect, despite the nifty line — but the roster construction on this club continues to be an absolute mess, and as much as I think it’s understandable to be trying to keep nice depth pieces around for the stretch run, there isn’t going to be a stretch run if the club keeps bleeding away games like they did last night.

Now, obviously when a bullpen blows up, the reasons behind it are complicated. It’s partly John Gibbons — though I fully understand him wanting to get McGowan out of there when he did, trying to preserve a positive outcome for his struggling starter, and wanting to get Santos (who I still have all the time in the world for, FYI) in when he did, etc. — it’s partly the pitchers themselves, and it’s partly dumb luck. But having an eight-man bullpen in which fully half of the relievers — Rogers, Redmond, Happ, and Jenkins — are unusable outside of garbage time is flat out absurd.

An eight-man ’pen in it’s own right is bad enough — though somewhat close to understandable here, given the starters’ problems getting deep into games — but the Jays have reached the point where whatever value they’re hoping to get out of the arms they’re saving from waiver limbo is being pretty heavily offset by not having a Wagner instead of a Jenkins, a McGowan instead of a Rogers, and a Janssen (or, until he comes back, a whoever) instead of a Happ. I wouldn’t even necessarily say it’s that dumb that they’ve tried to get away with it for so long, but it sure will become mighty fucking dumb mighty fucking quickly if they let it continue.

Let them go. Alex. Shit, there are a number of guys (in addition to Marcus Stroman, obviously) doing pretty decently in Buffalo’s rotation right now, and they’re not a whole lot less sexy as late-season depth pieces than the guys currently wasting away on the active roster — and maybe not even worse at all.

None of this is to say that some of the blowups of late would have been avoided with better management of the bodies back there — sometimes these things just happen — but I’m still sure that the cost-benefit in terms of the marginal value of clinging to certain out-of-options guys for dear life has, pretty clearly, started to turn sour. Maybe I’m being the overly emotional knee-jerk type of fuck-o fan that I often lament around here, but for fuck sakes, let’s see a real bullpen and a real bench, please, and if we have to deal with the consequences of not having Esmil fucking Rogers and Moises fucking Sierra later on in the year, at least we won’t have pissed away as much marginal value in the meantime, right?

Anthopoulos Speaks!

Alex Anthopoulos was a guest on Buster Olney’s Baseball Tonight Podcast late last week, and while he didn’t offer us anything that we didn’t already know, he sure was good at stating the obvious about his club when asked about what needs improving.

To wit:

For us right now, we like our four spots in the rotation. The fifth spot, we’ve got McGowan in there right now. J.A. Happ is obviously a guy that could step in and be a starter for us, as well. Second base, defensively it’s outstanding from Ryan Goins, but from an offensive standpoint we certainly could upgrade there. And then apart from that we feel like we’re a pretty good club. The bullpen has been a strength. We’ve had really a rough week here in the ‘pen, but overall it’s been a strength for us, and getting Janssen back — probably in about a week — will certainly help. But for us I’d say one more starter, second baseman that would maybe add a little more offence are probably the two things that would jump out.

Hey, so you mean the things that have been blindingly obvious for at least eight months???

Ugh. And… I mean… obviously it’s more complicated than just whining about it makes it sound, but jeez.

And I’m sure you need not be reminded that Chris Getz started at second base last night for the Jays, with Dustin McGowan getting the start on the mound, pitching with an insulin pump in order to combat the fatigue he’s felt set in around the 60-pitch mark in his previous starts so far. Ugh.

Payroll Parameters?

Interesting stuff being allegedly whispered in the direction of Toronto Sports Media this week about what went on over the winter with the Jays:

Many Rogers insiders are telling me that at least in the inner circle and at company functions those close to the action are admitting that the Blue Jays weren’t given access to the incremental funds they would have liked due to tough times the parent company is enduring.

A couple of folks are telling me that Paul Beeston himself is admitting the same thing.

Seems like a thing that totally happened, but actually my favourite part of the post comes before that bit. “There was lots of speculation over the winter that the driver for the crickets out of Blue Jays land was a tightening of the purse strings at HQ,” we’re told. “However, many of the same ‘it’s early’ voices from last season tried to quash that story.”

What an incredible attempt at a slight! How dare those “it’s early” people attempt to invalidate my asinine histrionics by pointing out how incredibly long a season is and how much is possible still even at the most negative ebb! (Y’know, like a club sitting at 13-24 crawling back by mid-June to over .500 and finding themselves even with a club that eventually made the playoffs! In other words: the club absolutely demonstrating that the over-the top pessimism of April and May was too early, and yet apparently anybody having said so was some slag to be mocked for his pissing on the negativity parade.)

But yes, I certainly looked at the original report with a heftily skeptical eye — as one absolutely should with unsubstantiated whispers like these, especially exceptionally vague ones (especially ones that come from yours truly, I should add!) — and came up with all kinds of reasons why it would make zero sense for Rogers to pull back from their investment in the Jays. And, of course, it did make zero sense. Yet they did it anyway.

As I said of TSM at the time, “there have been instances where the writer there actually did seem to have something resembling inside information from within the city’s sports media towers– enough that I can’t dismiss what he says entirely out of hand.” But as for that particular whisper, I concluded: “Slashed payroll? I’ll believe it when I see it.”

Well, I saw it. I believe it.

Being Frank About Francisco

Interesting comment from Mike Wilner on a recent edition of JaysTalk, as he says he thinks that, when Adam Lind went down, Juan Francisco might have got the call ahead of Dan Johnson — who, you’ll remember, performed so well this spring — because the club wants to keep Johnson around for the stretch run. Francisco, on the other hand, is a fairly redundant piece with fellow righty-masher Lind around, especially given that in his career he’s produced an OBP of .303 over 803 plate appearances in the majors, and just a .317 OBP over more than 2,600 in the minors. People sure love the power — and it does help make him about a league average hitter in terms of wOBA and wRC+ — but man… there has been a lot of talk connecting his name with guys like Bautista and Encarnacion that I’ve seen, and to me that’s not only nuts, but it denigrates the astounding transformations those two guys made. Plus, it misses the fact that they showed that they each had the kind of keen eye needed to take walks at an above average rate before they got here. Francisco? Not so much. Would love to see it be a thing, but let’s not go nuts.

Lastly, Thank Fuck This Thing I Wrote After Saturday’s Loss Isn’t What We’re Still Talking About…

Seriously, what a foul atmosphere we were dealing with following the Jays’ fourth straight loss back on the weekend — worse, even, than where we’re at following last night’s disaster. So… here’s something I wrote then, and while I could almost certainly save it for when we inevitably run into this kind of painful nonsense again (maybe after a loss tonight?), let’s just have at it now…

Here we are again, just like every single other year — be it at 10-21 in 2013, or 27-14 in 2009 — with Jays fans (not all of them, mind you, but enough of them to drown out the many silent voices of the sane) headed for the deep end, yelling and screaming and spraying piss in all directions in a manic, flailing, attention-screaming leap into utter incoherence brought on by their apparent failure to have learned the lessons of all the other baseball seasons they’ve supposedly watched. Granted, being Jays fans, for most of their lives the creeping feeling of impending doom at every apparent wrong turn made by the club has more-or-less been right — a fact you’ll be reminded of frequently by these jackaninnies, presumably barely able to keep the drool from spilling from their bottom lips as they tell you about twenty years with no playoffs, as though the failings of the Gord Ash and J.P. Ricciardi eras have anything to do with anything right now. The thing is, nobody on the sane side of the door to the fucking padded room is trying to tell anybody that there’s nothing to be concerned about with this club, or nothing that doesn’t need to be rectified damn quickly if they want to keep their heads above water, or that “it’s early … and they’re still going to be great.” Yet I get fuckwits calling me an apologist, a Kool-Aid drinker, a “Wilner,” because I refuse to validate their overly-emotional piss-poor knee-jerk reactions.

It’s annoying. Though, yes, I suppose it comes with the territory. And yes, addressing these crackpots not only gets old real fast, but also makes their voices seem even louder than I think they really are. It’s just… every single year. Every. Single. Year. And how difficult is it to grasp that grand pronouncements today about how awful and desperate the team is — meaningless regurgitated negativity-posing-as-cleverness garbage like “20 years of this,” or “can’t lose a game like that” — are as impossibly dumb as ones from a week ago — a damn week ago! — about how good things were looking after a road trip in which the club, by all rights, should have gone 7-2?

I’m no Pollyanna. I wrote in March about this season likely being yet another “grim ritual march to mid-season irrelevance,” for fuck sakes, and if we’re being honest, that probably still is what we’re going to eventually end up staring at, given the construction of the roster. There was always the possibility of things working out really well, though, too, and absolutely nothing about that outlook has changed. The Jays were 10-21 last May 31st, and even though they fell off the map in the second half, they did claw their way back to 38-36 and just three games back of the second Wild Card spot, tied with a Cleveland club that made the playoffs. If they can do that, then what in the holy fuck is anybody going on about with the downpour of negativity?

Maybe, as usual, I’m overstating it. But… yeah, there are problems. Yeah, you’re allowed to be pissed off when the Jays lose. Yeah, the team may not be on their way to the World Series. But most of us knew that all along and are happy just to enjoy the ride and see where it takes us. Especially since I’m pretty sure there’s a word for the type of fan who spends most of his energy racing to be the first to plant his flag in the pretend-notion that he knows the season is doomed: it’s called being a fucking shithead.

Comments (177)

  1. “there has been a lot of talk connecting his name with guys like Bautista and Encarnacion that I’ve seen, and to me that’s not only nuts, but it denigrates the astounding transformations those two guys made.”

    beautiful.

    • I think best case scenario for Fat Juan is an Adam Lind type player. Little bit more power, less patience, 1B/DH type. Which the Jays have no room for right now once Lind comes back.

    • I’ve personally made the comparison between Francisco and Encarnacion, and I don’t think it’s unfair. Both were highly touted young third basemen in the Reds system who had a ton of power to go along with some serious flaws that held them back, and both were acquired by the Jays at 26 after their team gave up on them.

      I think it’s fair to say “Juan Francisco reminds me of pre-superstar Encarnacion.” It doesn’t mean I think he’s going to turn into the Encarnacion we see today. I just think they’ve had very similar paths leading up to being acquired by the Jays.

      • It’s pretty unfair.

        • How? It’s not placing any expectations on him.

          • Because it implies the “flaws” are in some way equal.

            • I don’t think I’m making any implications there.

              “Both were highly touted young third basemen in the Reds system who had a ton of power… and both were acquired by the Jays at 26 after their team gave up on them.”

              Is that better? Specific flaws aside, those are a few things that make them comparable. I’m not saying they’re the same or identical, I’m not saying anything about the statistics they’ve compiled to this point, and I’m certainly not making any predictions, or even suggestions, about Francisco’s future development. I’m saying there are a few similarities between them and the career path they’ve followed up until being acquired by the Jays. That’s it.

          • Well to start, EE had wOBA of .358, .349 and .352 in the 3 seasons before the reds gave up on him, mostly for defensive reasons, not offensive.

            Encarnacion played himself in to a trade with his glove or rather his arm, not his bat. In fact EE regressed when he came here before breaking out.

            • The Reds also gave up on Francisco mostly because of the glove. Keep in mind that it was Lyle Overbay who beat him out for a job this year.

              EE, Cinci: .262/.345/.449
              JF, career: .243/.301/.434

              The difference is 20 points of BA and a not insignificant number of walks, so yes, it’s a stretch, and no one should be expecting it.

      • Edwin never had the same struggles with K’s and because he’s not a lefty, never had platoon issues to the massive degree that Francisco has.

      • Pat Tabler says he’s like Edwin, so it must be true. Plus “he’s a baseball player – he comes to the field ready to play”. Gold.

      • They’re also hispanic. Let’s not ignore that the best way to compare athletes is by finding players of the same ethnicity and working from there to find similar skills/drawbacks.

  2. Well said.

    AA needs to wake the fuck up. A team that wants to contend should not be worrying about losing marginal big leaguers. Hard to say whether or not these moves have cost the Jays a game or two, but sure would have been nice to go Wagner after Cecil instead of Santos last night.

    • If you’re worried about your ability to get more players, maybe that makes you hold on tighter to what you’ve got?

  3. The Jays are a good team with warts. Just like a bunch of other teams in this league. And, if AA gets over his fear of losing out-of-options players, we’ll be even better. Even if we lose a couple of those guys, it’s not like they can’t be replaced with others that are in the same situation. And, if we do lose say an Esmil Rogers or Todd Redmond, why can’t we think that a someone else can’t replace them – a Drabek, for example?

  4. I wonder if any of this is the Jays keeping players around for mid-season in the event they blow up the team. If they’re considering trading half the team in July, somebody is gonna have to fill those positions. This team has so much fat that obviously needs to be trimmed. Anyone can see it, and it makes me wonder.

    • So much fat? Not really, though.

      • Sort of though…Sierra, Francisco (once Lind comes back), 4 long relievers, a guy in the rotation who really should be another long reliever…there’s a lot of unnecessary pieces and other pieces that would look better in different roles. Why aren’t they in those roles and why are these players all still here?

        • What???

          Sierra, yes. Francisco is an injury fill-in. You need at least one of those long relievers. And whoever you’re talking about in the rotation: no.

          • They have four long relievers!! I have no idea why Happ and Rogers are on the team anymore. They’re not entirely useless, but there’s better options in the minors. That’s 2 players. Jenkins is 3. I would keep Redmond as the long reliever.

            McGowan should be in the bullpen, that’s who I was referring to in the rotation. I like McGowan as much as anyone, but there’s a huge problem that it’s a miracle when he reaches 6 innings. Isolated, maybe it’s not a big deal for a 5th starter, but when every pitcher in this rotation has the same problem, you should start looking to fix it by replacing the guy least likely to improve in that area.

            Sierra’s 4. If they keep Francisco when Lind returns, that’s 5. Then there’s the circus at 2nd base, and the back-up catcher who is only here because of Dickey. He’s looked good so far dribbling ground balls through the infield, but it’ll catch up to him. Again, not a big deal when it’s your back-up catcher, but it’s a 1/3 of your bench that right now looks completely useless. We’ve been ranting about 2nd base for months, and yet I wouldn’t pinch hit Getz for a single guy on the bench.

            There’s a lot of fat on this team. About 20% of it. Think about it, 20% of this team could be improved IN HOUSE and they choose not to. There’s a better catcher in the minors, a better back-up outfield, better bullpen options, etc.

            Then there’s options on the free agent market that could help, but they’re not coming either.

            It adds up to a very ugly picture, and makes me think these players are being stocked because someone is going to have to fill the positions if half the team is traded.

            • Good lord, this is exactly why I don’t like jumping on board these sorts of trains. Your McGowan and Francisco stuff remains nuts. Your Thole and second base stuff is nuts. Your yelling about the better minor league options is nuts. Your theorizing about half the team being traded (as though they wouldn’t get warm bodies back if they even did) is nuts.

              It’s just not nearly as big a deal as you’re making it.

              And better minor league options than Happ and Rogers for long relief? No. But yes, I’d be all for having more short relievers who can be used in higher leverage situations.

              • First of all, I’m not yelling.

                I don’t see how it’s nuts with McGowan, the guy himself came out and said he’s wearing down after 60 pitches, like what more do you need to hear? I think he could greatly solidify the bullpen as both a power arm in a late/close game, and as a guy who can give you 2-3 innings when necessary and when Redmond isn’t available.

                I expect them to ditch Francisco, but if they keep him, I would be concerned that this is their line of thinking. I’m not panicking that they’re trading half the team, I’m trying to reason why some of these players are here.

                I think the better minor league options is true. I would prefer Gose over Sierra. Sierra offers 0 skills you look for in a bench player. No defensive ability, no baserunning skills, no platoon advantage, nothing. I would prefer Kratz over Thole, both defensively and offensively. So did everyone else before Thole hit a few groundball singles to start the season. Wagner should be up here.

                These little things seem like nothing, but they’re adding up. Every game. We lost a game a few days ago because we had no bench options. We’re losing games left and right because the pitching is a mess. How is trying to discuss ways this team needs to fix itself either yelling or panicking? Frustrating though, sure.

                • 1) McGowan just went 92 pitches last night and was fine. So you’re just ignoring that so you don’t have to change the conclusion you’ve already come to?

                  2) So you’re going to kill them on a Francisco move that’s only happened in your head?

                  3) Wagner should be here, yes. Kratz and Thole are pretty interchangeable, and Thole has been fine. You can try to diminish that all you want, but it’s unavoidable. Plus: he catches Dickey. This isn’t an issue. Gose: They’re not ready to make Gose a bench player just yet, and that’s fair. We know why Sierra is here, and it’s mostly to platoon with Lind — which is something Gose can’t do. They aimed for Steve Pearce, which tells you they’re about done with Sierra. They added Getz, who can steal some bases, as a possible pinch runner. No, it’s not ideal, but there’s way less fat than you’re suggesting.

                  4) Yes, the little things can add up. Let’s not go nuts.

                  • Even at 92 pitches, he only got through 6 innings. It’s not just on the starting pitching end though. The bullpen has had it rough so far and I think he should be in there to stabilize it and help out. Honestly, I’d flip Happ and McGowan because at least McGowan can be used in any important situation.

                    The bullpen in a week should be Janssen, Santos, Delabar, Loup, Cecil, McGowan and Redmond with Wagner ready to go at any time. Then you’ve got Redmond as the long reliever, McGowan capable of doing either 2-3 innings when possible or playing guys away late in a game for 1 inning. Loup can also do a couple innings here and there, or get 1 out when necessary. It’s a balanced, stable, flexible bullpen. Right now the bullpen makes no sense at all. It’s chaos. That’s how I would fix the team.

                    Thole’s been fine in the games he catches Dickey, but he doesn’t offer anything from the bench. Normally a back-up catcher shouldn’t have to, but with a 3-man bench, he’s got to offer something. You can even keep him on the team if you go back to a 7 man bullpen, but Kratz should be here/ Kratz could at least pinch hit vs. Lefties. That would make Sierra unnecessary, and allow Gose to bring some speed and defense off the bench.

                    • *blowing guys away late in the game

                    • He got into the seventh and in different circumstances could have completed that inning too. Be serious.

                      No, Thole doesn’t have to offer more than what he offers.

                      Again: relax. It’s not as big a deal as you’re making it.

                    • SOMEBODY has to offer something off the bench. Do you understand how a bench should work? They’re not just there for giving a starter a day off once a week and to sit and cheer every day in between.

                    • No, they don’t. Ideally they would, but do you understand what “has to” means? Of course they don’t. It’s not ideal, but don’t act like it’s a disaster. Relax.

                  • Wait didn’t you just question McGowan’s spot in the rotation yourself??

                    “Dustin McGowan may have saved his job in the rotation last night, only to have the bullpen make a fairly convincing case for why he should lose it and return to their midst”

                    “…by not having a Wagner instead of a Jenkins, a McGowan instead of a Rogers, and a Janssen (or, until he comes back, a whoever) instead of a Happ.”

                    • I was responding to the comment that it takes a miracle for him to get past the fifth inning.

                    • Your problem is you look at every position in a vacuum and not how they relate to the team they’re actually playing for.

                    • False.

                    • and to be fair, i said it’s a miracle when he completes 6 innings, not “to get past the 5th inning”. Bit of a difference to make me sound dumber.

                    • Both are equally dumb given last night. I can change it if you like.

                    • What?! My comment is based on last night. That he pitches 6 solid innings and it’s a huge celebration.

                      And it’s not false, if you think the current bench and bullpen is not a huge issue then you’re missing something in your understanding. It’s not dumb to have a strong opinion just because you’ve mastered straddling the fence in every argument.

                • Thole has been having good at bats every time up to this point. Obviously the numbers won’t continue this way, but he hasn’t just had “a few groundball singles.” He’s working the count and hitting the ball well (highest line drive rate on the team). The samples are too small to draw any kind of conclusion, but how can you possibly look at what he’s done so far this season and say “Better call up Kratz because Thole’s not a good enough backup catcher”?

                  • Because Kratz can offer what Thole + Sierra offer combined. That lets you bring up Gose to bring some other important skills from the bench.

                    Better yet, go back to a 4 man bench and have Thole, Gose, and Kratz all here. But if you insist on having a 3 man bench you need to combine as many of these skills into as little players as possible.

                    • Thanks for the advice

                      Sincerly,

                      The Arm Chair GM

                    • Career wRC+ vs. LHP:
                      Sierra – 94
                      Kratz – 64

                      So… maybe Kratz doesn’t provide what Sierra is supposed to be here to provide? The samples are small, but it obviously not as simple as just making stuff up.

                      I like Kratz and I think he could provide value, but while Thole is hitting well and has a specific role on this team, there’s no need to make a change right now.

                    • I wonder what the maximum number of marginal wins is between the best bench and the worst over the course of a season. 2 WAR? 3? Between three or four players, that’s a fair amount. Of course, that amount of success over the course of a season really isn’t enough to propel the Jays into the playoff picture if other things don’t change.

                      Putting the blame for April on the shoulders of Esmil Roger, Josh Thole, Jeremy Jeffress, and even Ryan Goins misses the point. Do you want to blame someone for where Toronto is right now? How about Brett Lawrie? How about Colby Rasmus? How about Edwin Encarnacion, who going into tonight’s game has a wRC+ of 100 so far (which, while league average, is well below what he should be expected to produce). Dickey’s been worse than needed, and McGowan has failed thus far to be anything more than a promising unfulfilled 5th starter.

                      This team isn’t leading the AL East right now not because of highly conspicuous meltdowns by the bullpen, it’s because Melky and Bautista are the only players who, to date, have played particularly well. When you can’t offset a normal, reasonable slow start by a number of regular starters with hot bats and great outings from a starter or two, you’re not going to do well. Making the 25th best player on the team better will not make the team as a whole much better.

                • Please use a consistent fucking handle.

                  • Damn… how did that wind up here? Mobile devices…

                  • Winfield, this is exactly what I mean by looking at each position in a vacuum. You’re talking about winning ACTUAL games on the field, things that happen in reality. Not adding up WARs. You’re building a TEAM, not stocking WAR. Your bullpen and bench are especially the 2 places where you should be looking to see how the abilities of these players compliment your starting rotation and your everyday players. Not just saying, “the difference between this bench player and that bench player is probably like 0.5 WAR, so that’s clearly not the issue with this team.” Holy fuck are none of you actually watching these games? You really want to say Edwin is the reason they are 2 games below .500 because he’s sitting with a league average bat so far? It’s getting to the point where people spouting off sabermetrics are dumber than people rambling about pitcher wins

                    • Pastlives, whatever you think people spouting sabermetrics are thinking, it’s not it. Not to mention the fact that you’ve completely lost the plot on the meaning of the bench and bullpen stuff. Relax. Get off your phony little high horse. We all agree that these things are not ideal — only one person is pretending they’re a bigger issue than they really are, and he’s doing so to elevate himself on some kind of bullshit notion he has that he thinks more about winning than other people. Not true, it’s just that you’re looking at things far too narrowly here — ironic, since you’re the one shitting on people for supposedly thinking in a vacuum. Thing is, most of us are understanding that there are legitimate reasons why they’ve been going with certain out-of-options guys, and too many relievers, and that those reasons make sense in the big picture — though, as I said in the piece, less sense by the day. You, on the other hand, are completely ignoring that, and then pretending it’s everyone else who is being ignorant. Figure it the fuck out before you go and try to insult people, please, because if you’re going to be a shit, at least have the common courtesy to not be wrong about everything you’re saying.

                    • Clearly your knowledge and opinion warrant the creation of a new Jays blog. Have any names in mind?

                    • I truly believe these are big issues. I didn’t even care that much when I started my point, but It’s mind boggling to me that nobody seems to think it’s worse than “less than ideal” that they’re playing with literally zero bench, and half a bullpen in important situations, and the consequences of this have been showing themselves almost every game.

  5. It kinda ties in with the real bench thing, but I’d love to see a decent platoon bat for Francisco (Sierra is not the guy as has been discussed here) so that he can be used properly. He’s perfectly capable against RHP but starting him against lefties is a joke.

  6. Nuts over Francisco? You should have heard the Royals broadcast go nuts about him during each of his ABs… about how great he was last year against the Royals and how they couldn’t believe he got sent down last year… blah blah blaaaah.

  7. With regards to McGowan’s performance last night, I wouldn’t even considered those runs as earned runs. The first one scored on a pitch on the dirt that was ruled a wild pitch, but really it was Navarro being lazy in trying to back hand the ball rather than block it, it was easily blockable. then the other run scored when Navarro threw it centerfield trying to throw to second on a steal. I like Navarro, but not the next night for him and McGowan’s performance should actually be regarded as even better statistically.

    • 3rd runner who scored was on a somewhat catchable ball for Rasmus after it looked like Pete Walker told Mcgowin to just throw fastballs down the middle.

      the Pitch chart is hilarious for that last Alex Gordon at bat 3-0 trying to nibble. Pete comes out to have a chat and then three straight fastballs right “down the dick.”

      • I forgot about that run for Dusty, I was wondering why the stats said he 2 ER’s when one was obviously a error for Navarro

    • And Bautista saved him a run throwing out Aoki at third, for example. It cuts both ways.

  8. Rogers is on tough times? Do they need me to subscribe to Cable VIP to resign Colby?

  9. Stoeten I’m in 100% agreement with you about the construction of this roster.

    The 8 man pen is absurd on the best days, but at least somewhat excusable given the struggles of the starters but to have an 8 man pen in which only 4 pitchers can be used in a winning or tied scenario is fucking bonkers. As you noted – there are arms that are available in Buffalo that can help. Add to this the question – if exposed to waivers would any team actually claim Rogers?

    The fact that Neil Wagner was unavailable last night hurt. The fact that the same 4 pitchers have to pitch in every tight situation is doing damage. They are only 3 games back of the Yankees who have their own problems – but the longer this team goes with 1/2 of its bullpen dedicated to mopping up blow out losses the more of these types of losses we might see.

  10. Mediocrity killed the cat.

    What the funk happened to middles relief. Last night at it was our strength, this year it’s the Bad News Bears. I’m just waiting for Gibby to start drinking in the dugout.

  11. Jumping Jesus Christ on a pogo stick people. Get a grip. Tons of reason for optimism here.
    Melky performing better than could be expected. Who really knew after his injury year if he had become an all star or if it was the roids. He looks like the real deal.
    Lawrie turning into the player we dreamed he could be.
    Jose B having a monster year.
    EE starting to turn it on.
    Reyes is healthy.
    Starting pitching looks to be turning a corner (albeit with some bumps on the road still occurring)
    ÀAA pitching looking great.
    About the only horrible issue is the pen, and statistically speaking, they can’t be this bad.
    Let the season progress and see if they can get it going. Remember last year the Rays and I believe the Cards didn’t look so hot out of the gate either…

    • Agree.

      • I think there’s a difference between being upset about the direction of the team and the actual product on the field.

        I agree that, if everything goes the right way, this team could make a run for the playoffs. I get that losses like that happen, that a ton of complex factors go into a collapse like that. The Jays even made it interesting in the 9th, which as a spectator, that’s kind of all you can ask for.

        The frustration comes from how terrible the trades last year look in light of the decision to cut payroll. By reducing the odds of making the playoffs this year or next, the Jays have drastically changed the cost-benefit of those trades. And the worst part of it is that it isn’t AA or Beeston; it’s (allegedly) ownership. If AA gets replaced, the key issue – myopic and unpredictable financial decisions – is still there. That leaves very little to hope on.

        I can enjoy the season and keep perspective on wins and losses while still be damn frustrated.

        • Bang on.

        • No doubt purse strings were tied when JJ was a miserable failure, coupled with all the injuries from early 2013 (no one really knew how good the roster could be) and Rogers Corp instituted a “wait and see” attitude. I don’t think the decision was because of bleeding ca$h since the company made massive investments in TFC and Sportsnet NHL coverage. If I was writing the cheques I would point to far more successful teams with far less annual salary (Rays, A’s) and tell AA he has to work with max $100M/yr. Surely, a good GM can field a competitive team for that.

          • This argument always drives me nuts. The Jay’s payroll rank league wide is irrelevant because they will never qualify for the playoffs amongst the NL teams. So eliminate 15 teams right there. Out of the 15 AL teams, 5 of which will make the playoffs (although 2 will be exposed to the one-and-done WC game) the Jays payroll ranks 5th which is good for 3rd in their own division. So based on payroll alone, they’re doing just enough to be above average spenders and borderline contenders.

            And let’s just stop with all the Rays comparisons. They milked a no longer existent CBA to get lucky with a generation of star draft picks. Now that those players are leaving their system, the decline is starting and they will have an increasingly difficult time competing.

            • This. It isn’t just that making comparisons across divisions is foolish, it’s that asking AA to build a contender this year with a flat budget is pulling the rug out from under him. Part of what the Jays gave up in the Marlins trade is taking on some huge contracts. No way AA agrees to that if he knows that budget parameters coming crashing down in 2014.

              Think of it this way: Kate Upton is coming to your house for dinner. She’s going to sleep with you if you make the best dinner ever. You’ve got $500. You probably start buying up premium steaks, caviar, maybe some lobster, right? You might only spend $400, expecting that you’ll need money later to purchase any last minute ingredients and some nice wine. You get home, you start cooking.

              Suddenly, Kate calls and lets you know that she won’t come to dinner unless you keep the cost under $300. You’re kind of screwed now, right? I mean, sure, it’d be easy to make an awesome meal for $300, but you’ve already got a $200 steak on the grill. How are you supposed to make a great meal for $300 when you’ve already made plans expecting $500? That’s AA – he’s got a ton of premium steaks on the grill and no money for wine. It’s not that he can’t cook/build a team. He just got sandbagged.

        • Agree with you 100% and yes it is disappointing…right now. I just think these 9th inning runs they’ve been
          getting portend to great things coming later in the season. imagine when the bullpen gets its act together and only blows the occasional save, then the bats are capable of coming back. this lineup is giving me the same kind of confidence as the WAMCO lineup did way back when….when the games were never over until the last out.

          • When I say disappointing I mean disappointed when they lose. Who isn’t. But its one thing to be disappointed and another to act as though the season is already lost. Love how anthopolous is a genius one season ago and now he’s a clown who has to be run out of town. Running a franchise isn’t like playing EA MLB people. Sometimes you have to hold onto assets because you hope a trade will open up down the road, or because some other GM has interest but isn’t biting right now. Lets just wait and see, cause I don’t think this team will stay as is for much longer before something is done to address the couple or more black spots on the roster. And who knows maybe the worst roster spots end up getting better on their own. People can learn and improve. Its not a crazy concept.

    • I think that this is the fifth game now since the Minnesota debacle where the Jays pen has blown up. And it’s not the same people blowing up, be it the combination of Delabar – Santos in Minnesota, to Cecil, to Redmond, to Jenkins, to Loup – every one of the bullpen has contributed to a loss (save Rogers and Happ, for the moment).

      And it’s frustrating as hell, to see the Jays put up 51 runs in the last 9 games (5.67 runs/game) and see them go 3-6 as a result.

      Certainly, even with Rasmus/Lawrie in the lineup (improving), the lineup is actually pretty freaking formidable, especially given the surprise pop of Navarro and Francisco (both for now), with only 2B being the sore spot (consistently) in the lineup.

      I think Gibby has got to let the pitchers solve their own problems and get out of their own jams. One thing that I didn’t like about Gibby the first time around was that he didn’t let pitchers stay in the game long enough, and that he manages the bullpen very conservatively. I’m not sure if Gibbons’ strategy is getting into the pitcher’s heads and destroying their confidence, and certaintly, Dickey’s leadership (or lack thereof) might be playing part of it, but what the f*** do I know — grasping for straws. Hell, last year in the summer, we had the best bullpen in baseball, and now, it’s kind of Hentgen’s clusterf*** at this point.

      Let McGowan go 100 pitches. Let them all get out of early inning jams, and demote both Happ and Jenkins back to AAA and leave Redmond and Rogers (for now) as the long term relievers, leaving Loup, Cecil, Delabar, Santos, and Wagner (until Janssen) comes back to back-end games. Rest the bullpen a bit.

      With one day off in the next 30 so days, the Jays are in for a long haul of games with very little time for rest. April was nice and relaxing for them, and now it’s time for them to get serious.

      And I agree that the roster is shit right now, with the wrong people being at the MLB level because of waivers.

      • Please don’t get into the confidence/”in their heads” nonsense.

        For every time Gibbons gets killed for not leaving a pitcher in long enough, he gets killed for leaving one in too long.

        • I kindly disagree with your analysis of Gibbons. I can’t think of times when Gibbons have pulled someone too late, and to be frank, it’s the radio announcers and TV announcers who have put that bug in my head, that Gibbons pulls people too early. On the other hand, you had Cito who would leave pitchers in far too long.

          I know that it’s been the right strategic move to pull the pitchers when Gibbons has, and for the most part, I agree with the moves strategically (backfired as they have) that he has done. Cecil/Loup / Delabar / Santos is the correct way to finish games, and Gibbons has the latitude to switch around depending on the batting order.

          But that has blown up lately, too much so, I think to be called coincidence. So when this happens you have to look at reasons besides the numbers to link the coincidence to things that may be happening that we don’t see. Of course, that always leads people to easily be able to tell you to screw off because you have no proof.

          Well of course i don’t. But it doesn’t mean that you do, and certainly, you as much as anyone is guilty of speculation.

    • lets all listen to Joe Cool and just enjoy the game of baseball please.

  12. the line from AA about “best guys come north” is pretty faint right now .. I mean these guys in the back of the pen are retreads at best, the type of players that can always be had. Sure it would be nice to find some hidden treasure once in a while but to hang onto them at ANY cost seems irresponsible at this point.

    put the best team on the field and lets see what we got .. .if that means they lose to shitty pitchers and Moises Sierra who cares .. .Keith Law and others have never thought of Sierra as more than a 4th OF type .. is this worth holding onto at the expense of someone that may actually help vs develop in sporadic big league appearances?

    enough is enough and this is not based on last nights game or even most recent blunders but AA has been running out 8 man staffs for too many days over the past calendar year ..

    • Yeah, but who cares what they say? They never tell the truth, so we shouldn’t have expected that to be anything anyway.

      But yes, it’s got to the point where it’s hurting them more than you can expect it to help them.

  13. Melky: What kind of contract is he playing himself into and could it be the Jays who he would be accepting such contract?

    • With everything that is apparently happening with ownership, would you want to sign with the Jays if you had any alternative?

  14. Pretty crappy “photoshop” (I did it in Paint) but worth a chuckle.

    http://tinypic.com/r/sdyzvp/8

  15. I’m ready to bite the bullet and acknowledge that this is a small-market team, or at least the resources the Jays get are going to resemble that going forward. It’s not fair, such is life.

    Every projection I’ve seen has the Jays as a .500 team or thereabouts. From what we’ve seen so far, that doesn’t appear off-base. I hope the Jays have something internal that says something better than that because .500 isn’t good enough to stand pat. Not when your core is aging, and not when most of best farm pieces are high-risk, high-reward guys in low A, years away from the big club. If the resources aren’t going to be available for this team to compete right now, let’s blow this thing up. There’s some great pieces to trade and a real shot at building a contender with payroll parameters that Rogers can live with.

    Frankly, if I had my way the I’m hoping we can look to 2018 as the year this team becomes a lean, legitimate, small-market(esque) beast. Some of those top guys in Lansing should have a year or two with the big club under their belt with Stroman and Sanchez leading the way in the rotation. Reyes will be off the books. There’ll be grass at the RC (grass!) and all the free agents that come with it (apparently).

    Who knows if it’ll happen, I’ll keep dreaming anyway. It would mean NOT calling up Stroman now* and saying goodbye to some of our favourite players. It would mean a LOT more losing but personally I’d rather lose 90 games now and win 100 in four years than play .500 ball year in, year out. The Astros are getting it right, no reason the Jays can’t as well.

    *For all the talk we’ve put up with about “assets” and “value” over the past several months, if we hand Stroman an extra year of arbitration to prop up this .500 club, so help me god.

    • Good lord.

      • Sure this is ridiculous but it’s a version that I’m sure a lot of fans would prefer we could go back to. It’s crazy at this point to argue you wouldn’t want a do-over on the Dickey trade and the Marlins trade is starting to look that way as well. Reyes has been the Reyes we thought we were getting for about a month so far and I’m not sure he’s ever getting back to where he was. Not to mention the shackles the contracts have put on this team. We WERE a team with one of, if not the top system in all of baseball and two superstar mashers signed to reasonable deals. Now we have a middle of the road system with a payroll that seems maxed out and very little flexibility.

        • Why is this so ridiculous? The team is mediocre and without significant upgrades it is not likely to make the playoffs (although I personally have faith). So blowing it up while there are substantial assets to trade makes all the sense in the world failing the needed significant upgrade the doesn’t look likely

          Go back to??? The jays haven’t blown anything up since winning the ws and have been consistently mediocre the whole time. Either go for it now or go for it later or else risk being mediocre for a few more years and letting star players walk away without a return like in the past (minus Halliday) and another decade of missing the playoffs

      • Blow it UP! Rogers Centre fire sale, all things must go. Except for Lawrie.

    • My god

  16. so, do we have another week to go with 4 long relievers in the pen? ugh!!

    • we’ve lost more games late with our pen then from lack of pinch hitting.

      8 relievers for a bit longer wont hurt

      • I’m ok with 8 RPs. what i’m saying is I want impact RPs (guys that can keep it close/hold a close lead), not 4 innings eaters.

  17. I know small sample sizes always blow reliever performances out of proportion. Santos has only thrown a total of 154 innings as a major league pitcher (less than one season for a starter). In that time, his numbers would be a 3.50 ERA, 1.24 WHIP with 11 K/9. i.e. Strasburg territory. But having said that, this guy has a serious problem with fastball command right now that they need to get corrected. 9 walks in 9 innings this year is not cool.

  18. Do any of these militant pessimists actually enjoy baseball? Did any of these people watch for year after year when the jays actually did suck? I just got cable TV this baseball season after not having it for a few years and I am overjoyed with the quality of entertainment that the jays are providing. It’s fun to see extremely talented players performaing at a high level which can be said about almost every single position player even the ones that started slowly. The pitching has been inconsistent but each starter has shown flashes of brilliance and at least we have the hope that each of them can make a CY Young quality start on any given day which could not be said for the parade of mediocrity that we have seen in the past. The bullpen has had a few really rough outings but its the same guys that were All Stars last year and its not as though their talent simply dried up and disappeared. We are in April and have not dug ourselves into any kind of hole. They have proven that they can compete with the best teams in the league and they have just as good a chance as anyone in the division right now. Life is good. Sure they can smooth out some of the edges but lets get some perspective here Blue Jays Fans. We are fans by the way and that should include actually liking the tearm.

  19. “…the Blue Jays weren’t given access to the incremental funds they would have liked due to tough times the parent company is enduring.”

    Anyone else want to go drop a deuce on that statue outside the stadium after reading that?

    • yeah, what the fucking bullshit was that??? has anyone fucking looked at Rogers annual reports recently? their profit and dividends have been growing absurdly fast. what a fucking load of bullshit that comment was.

    • Rogers playing poor when they have like $4 billion pre-tax profit or whatever. fuck that.

    • I actually snapped a nice shot of that statue with a giannt runny bird turd dripping down its face last Friday before the Red Pox game.

    • The fine executive at Rogers expect all divisions of Rogers, including MEDIA to perform well and execute year after year. The Wireless division operates separately from the cable division which operates separately from the Media division. They expect all divisions to grow, and the “lean times” probably refers to the downswing in profit within Media.

      Never mind the $28 million that each team got in extra TV revenue this year.

  20. The fact of the matter is that this is a team with some very nice parts, but also has some very big concerns. It’s not quite at the level it needs to be to compete for a playoff spot and fans should have realistic expectations.

    Who’s to blame for the issues of this team? Well there are a lot of people in ownership and the organization that you could point fingers at, but I don’t think it’s too late. However if they don’t make changes soon, it very quickly will be too late.

    • Obviously there are holes, but the biggest culprits in the recent blowup losses have been their star relievers: Loup, Cecil, Delabar and Santos. If those four had performed reasonably close to expectations over the last week and half, the team would be somewhere around 16-10 or 15-11 and we would all be excited about how competitive the team has been.

      I don’t think this team is anywhere remotely close to a situation where you can say “If they don’t make changes soon…”

  21. I think a lot of frustration comes from the way the games are being won and lost. The Jays have yet to have a come from behind win in the same fashion they are blowing some of these leads. The Twins, Orioles x2, Indians, Royals and you could even throw in the Red Sox game from Saturday. High win probabilities all only to lose in the end. It’s easy to say it will all balance out in the end (which it SHOULD) but that’s not necessarily true and certainly doesn’t make them easier to stomach.

    • I agree, its the disasterfuck inning that leads to all the angst from fans.

      For me, if the starting pitching was worse, i’d be more inclined to agree with the depressing predictions for the season.

      Its been the bullpen, and sure they may be overworked but that will even out and they will go back to being a strength. Janssen back and dumping Rogers and Redmond might help as well.

      The top of the lineup has been really good so far, once reyes, rasmus and EE get going (maybe even Lawrie?), this team is going to be an offensive force.

      • Overworked my ass.

        We’re four weeks into the season, and the Jays have had 4 days off already. They played 7 – 6 – 6 -6 and have had Mondays off, essentially, and have had long outings from both Buerhle and Dickey. It’s still April. The season is still young. Aaron Loup has thrown all of 11 innings, and he’s pitched the most of the back 4.

        The Jays play 33 games (from yesterday to June 1) in 34 days with only 6 games against AL East. They have a series with Oakland too, but that’s really as hard as it gets. I’d like to see the Jays get some momemtum and finish May 20-10. I think it’s really doable with the competition they’re facing, if their bullpen is up to it.

    • I disagree. I think a lot of the frustration from fans is because the team has had the same, obvious holes for years and yet hasn’t been able to come close to addressing it.

  22. Did anyone notice how Getz hauled ass down the line on every ground ball? When Lind is back I wonder if the Jays could trade Francisco which would be free considering he was signed for nothing. Jays need a vet bench player instead of Sierra. Still only 12-14. Sky hasn’t fallen yet. Jays have been competitive.

    • considering Francisco was signed for nothing what makes you think he has any trade value?

      • You have to keep in mind the time of year that Fransico was cut, many teams had their rosters set to begin the year, and likely had to cut guys on their own 40 man.

        A good couple months by Fransico and he could be attractive to some teams.

        That said, way to early to dream on that kinda stuff.

  23. Great night for McGowen pumping insulin into his body to give us a gutsy performance. Team leader has a hell of a night. Team scores 7 runs 7. That should beat the royals any night. Bull pen gives up 8 fucking runs in 2 innings?? Five players try to buy the team a pitcher who is doing pretty well in Atlanta. Steven Drew is available and I bet he can play second base. AA has been grabbing spare parts like their gold for 2 years and hanging on to them no matter what. Waiting for Sierra to turn into Mickey fucking Mantle and cutting Wagner’s salary by 25K after the performance he gave last year. And you say there’s a rumour Rogers has cut off financial support “DUH”. If we’re a little frustrated imagine how the players feel when they know they are so close!

    • The players should feel that they need to do better and win not make excuses that they aren’t winning because the ownership has only committed the tenth highest payroll in the league to the team.

    • One word: Tampa.

  24. Any guesses on what Navarro is saying to Santos in the picture above?

  25. i had a look at Esmil Rogers’ career numbers last night. the brief synopsis is that he has few if any redeeming qualities.

    i thought maybe his shit numbers were heavily influenced by his failed attempts at starting, but with a 5.49 ERA out of the bullpen (backed up by a more respectable, but still uninspiring 4.15 FIP) that’s just not true.

    he’s produced middling K/BB rates and decent GB numbers over his career, but other than the GBs there’s nothing to mitigate the inescapable fact that he just gets pounded, and he always has.

    you might say his .339 career BABIP is a product of bad defense or Coors Field, but not when it’s backed up by a healthy 22.2% career LD rate. combined with his below average SwStr%, it paints the picture of a guy who’s repertoire opponents have few issues making contact on, and consistently barrel it up when they do.

    His persistent trouble with HR’s again highlights the issue of hard contact, and have astoundingly gotten worse since he’s left Colorado. Lefties have torched him to the tune of a .376 wOBA (think CarGo, Joe Mauer or Chase Utley), and righties have managed a still respectable .344 wOBA (think Jason Heyward).

    He absolutely is not a starting pitcher, and his HR issues, lack of whiffs, and lack of success against hitters of either handedness preclude him from a high leverage role in the bullpen. And yet this is one of the guys we’re hanging onto over a higher quality options like Neil Wagner, who could fill the exact same multi-inning role with the only caveat being that he can’t start in a pinch, although why that’s an issue for a team that also employs JA Happ and has the prospect of Stroman on the horizon, i can’t figure.

    • I like Wagner, he’s done well but he does throw too many pitches:
      19.6 pitches/inning avg – 170 pitches over 8 2/3 IP).
      Loup is 15.46 pitch/inning avg (170 over 11 IP).
      Delabar is 16.97 pitches/inning avg (181 over 10.2 IP).
      Cecil is 16.55 pitches/inning avg (171 over 10 1/3 IP).

      • bullpen guys using a lot of pitches isn’t as much of an issue, although i guess it might be a sign of poor command or lack of a swing and miss pitch.

        was lots of pitches a trend for Wagner last year, or is it new and likely SSS noise?

    • but “hes got some nasty stuff..”
      -Buck and Tabby

      • for buck and tabby, nasty stuff = throws hard

        you’d think if he did have good stuff it would manifest itself somewhere in his game. i just see decent velocity with unremarkable movement, a slider lacking good bite that hangs more often than not, and a fringey change-up.

        and chuck in fringe-average command too. all the elements of a AAAA pitcher.

  26. always frustrating that baseball teams with professional players need to shift guys around because some guys just cant hit left handed pitching – i mean really – not at all?
    the Blue Jays really dont have the luxury of carrying guys that have such specific roles
    and i agree time to take an outsiders perspective and cut bait on these guys who are out of options that we keep hanging on to – lets move forward

  27. What happened to Hentgan? Think he had some personal reason for leaving the team. Don’t think it was a coincidence how the pen did so well last year under him and is going to shit this year. Jays seem to need a better pitching coach, outside of his moustache not sure walker has much to offer and his track record is not good plain and simple

    Position player, roster construction, eight man pen, Rogers not allowing more payroll blah blah blah, the core problem is the underwhelming performance of the pitching highlighted by recent bullpen implosions where the team has given up leads on occasions when the starters held up their end. Bring in Hentgan or someone else the pitchers are not producing under walker

  28. the only reason why there is such doom and gloom is because we know alex won’t do anything to fix it. the solutions are obvious and so easy yet we have a gm who won’t give away any player who’s making money. We have 4 long men who can’t be used in any leverage situation? You can release rogers and send jenkins back down and then call up wagner and put stroman in the bullpen to start. 2 POWER arms now in the pen. What a difference that would make! So in the mean time we lose game after game until there is gnashing of teeth then finally alex does a jefress and releases these shitballers, only then we’ll be 10 games under. thanks alex.

  29. Still love the team. Still frustrated by the team. Would love to see some of the clutter cleaned up, with respect to all the fringe startes/long relievers. Season is not over. We could still win. Probably not, but we’ll watch, cheer, drink and yell Fuck at the tv a few times.

  30. Dinner is saying to santos that he wishes the texas trade went through.

  31. “given the construction of the roster” sums it up nicely. Knowing that going into the season should have provided some perspective on reasonable expectations. Unfortunately moaners and complainers are going to do what they do, day after day, no matter how old it gets.

  32. People who are surprised that the bullpen has blown some leads need to be reminded that regression is a thing.

    • But not usually a thing that happens to multiple guys all at the same time, though, right?

      Actually, think this is mostly a fluke and things will get better. The weirdness is the timing and the number of guys that are getting killed in these wipeout innings.

      • It’s absolutely a fluke. The timing of the big extra-base hits has been crazy — bases-clearing doubles, grand slams… it just can’t last.

  33. Never get out of the boat.

  34. When I say disappointing I mean disappointed when they lose. Who isn’t. But its one thing to be disappointed and another to act as though the season is already lost. Love how anthopolous is a genius one season ago and now he’s a clown who has to be run out of town. Running a franchise isn’t like playing EA MLB people. Sometimes you have to hold onto assets because you hope a trade will open up down the road, or because some other GM has interest but isn’t biting right now. Lets just wait and see, cause I don’t think this team will stay as is for much longer before something is done to address the couple or more black spots on the roster. And who knows maybe the worst roster spots end up getting better on their own. People can learn and improve. Its not a crazy concept.

  35. Sorry for the double post.

  36. If im AA (since we all are in todays post) im after Jeff Smardjzia and Nick Franklin.

    Other than Sanchez, Stroman, DJ Davis, Jiminez and maybe a couple others, any other prospect id be willing to talk about. If there is interest on Rogers, Redmond, Kratz, Happ, Francisco, maybe even Colby Rasmus (not sure he wants to resign anyways) they could be chips aswell. With those 2 id feel real good about the lineup.

    C – Navarro
    1B – Lind/Encarnacion
    2B – Franklin
    SS – Reyes
    3B – Lawrie
    LF – Cabrera
    CF – Rasmus/Gose
    RF – Bautista
    BN – DIaz/Goins/Kawasaki
    BN – Sierra/Gose
    BN – Thole
    BN – Francisco

    SP – Dickey
    SP – Buehrle
    SP – Smardjzia
    SP – Morrow
    SP – Hutchison

    RP – McGowan
    RP – Cecil
    RP – Delabar
    RP – Wagner
    RP – Santos
    RP – Jannsen
    RP – Loup

    • That’s the way all fan-made trade proposals seem to go.

      “I would totally be willing to trade any prospect in the system except the ones the other team would want!”

    • lol to getting Franklin and Shark and not giving up any of our top prospects.

      Hey Seattle, send us that top prospect 2B you have and we’ll send you Jesse Litsch and Sierra.

      what world do you fucking live in

      • with Cano on 2B you would think that some pitching help or AAA depth would be enough to get Franklin out of Seattle. Nolin? Jenkins? Maguire? Rogers?

        • If we had a hot young RF prospect being blocked by Bautista, would you like it if AA traded him for AAAA pitching help and AAA depth?

    • “I know a way we can get Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. and we won’t have to give up that much.

    • This isn’t OOTP, you can’t turn on “commissioner mode” in real life

    • At least you got how the bullpen should be right. The fact is they have to make the best out of what they have.

      Eventually they may actually have their best players on the 25 man roster.

  37. what a joke of a bullpen performance that was

  38. so no roster moves yet?

  39. The best was bringing in Redmond against the Orioles after Morrow pretty much walked the bases loaded.

    Yeah…….

  40. Absolutely nailed it with the bullpen stuff, Stoeten.

  41. Gotta say the offense has been killing it so far. Best Jays lineup I’ve seen in years. If the bullpen can get its shit together I could see them going on a 20-5 run or something like that.

  42. Looks the the Jays get a tough young starter for the Royals tonight in Ventura… throws gas with some wicked breaking pitches. Hopefully Hutch is on his game tonight.

    Sure wouldve been interesting to see Ventura and his fastball square off with Buehrle haha

  43. I am pretty much one of those “fucking shithead” fans, Stoeten. But me and my therapist, we’re working on a sunnier, more Hello Kitty kind of me. It’s not only making for a kinder, gentler fan (and visitor to this forum), but I have also developed more patience with this team (as well as a penchant for shiny, plastic tchotchkes).

    And so, while I still think the Gibbon is mildly retarded, I tend to now see that AA’s inaction this past winter was not so much that as his being clapped in a fiscal straightjacket by those soulless, myopic corporate cocksuckers over at Rogers.

    Furthermore, in spite of last night’s game ultimately being little more than an exercise in having your balls lovingly cupped and then hit with a fucking hammer – repeatedly – I actually am optimistic about this team’s fortunes this season. 

    Janssen will soon come back, and Stroman will get promoted. I actually think he will do fairly well. McGowan (or maybe Morrow) will find himself in the ‘pen again whether he likes it or not and will be very effective in middle relief. One or two of the unholy quartet of Rogers/Redmond/Happ/Jenkins will then be put out of his, and our, misery. Then Lind comes back, Spasmus starts hitting, nobody gets injured and presto! Pennant time. And, also, Japanese sock monkeys will fly out of my butt. But hey, what the fuck. Could happen.

  44. My take on things:

    1. McGowan pitched well enough last night. However. his inability to miss bats is a concern. The Royals lineup isn’t known for its ability to bit for power. For me, Dusty got some outs that were as much a product of warning track power hitters merely flying out as opposed to a display of pitching prowess.

    If Dusty is able to start throwing that fucking change more consistently, then he might be onto something. The velocity and movement on his.4 and 2 seamers are still good enough to miss barrels for now. But man he needs to refine his change and work on burying his slider.

    2. I’ve said it before. Rogers are tightening their belts everywhere. Big change in the culture has taken place. Divisions, including baseball operations, are more accountable to the bean counters. It fucking sucks to see ownership press the pause button just when the core roster is entering the apex period of its window of opportunity to win. It’s like refusing to put roofing on a hot new house cause you know, shingles are just too fucking expensive. If you can’t afford roofing, don’t build it in the first place.

    3. The best teams lose nearly 40% of their games and do so in a variety of ways. Seeing another BP clusterfuck is irritating as fuck. But it happens. The Red Sox had stretches where their BP sucked ass. Yet they found a way to win. There are some good arms in the BP. Just need to get the boys lined up better. But that is hard to do with your rotation failing to get deep into games 9 times out of 10.

    4. Please keep Dusty in the rotation for now. Then if that fails,, hold your nose and get Happ a start or two before calling up Stroman.

  45. Shrug. I like Rogers’s stuff and I don’t think Sierra’s really been given a chance to succeed yet. I think they’re both development projects at this point, though I really have to wonder what they’re doing with Sierra.

    Francisco looks like a worse version of Adam Dunn to me; crazy high HR/FB and K% without much else going on. (Except, y’know, he doesn’t walk, which is pretty big and pretty shitty. And the more pronounced platoon split—holy fuck.) They might be seeing what they have in him and whether they can fix his shit, but I’d expect them to cut bait pretty quick if they find out that it’s not much and they can’t.

    (Fun fact: Ryan Goins has more career HR against left-handers than Juan Francisco does. Since that’s basically all Francisco does, you should probably bat Ryan Goins instead of Juan Francisco if you’re facing a LHP.)

    Whether it’s a good idea to have half a dozen development projects on the 25-man at the same time is a pretty important question, and I think you nailed it.

  46. Well the Jays may suck but not as bad as last year and at least they are entertaining to watch and let’s be realistic the Jays will never be able to compete in this division because the Yankees and Red Sox will never have to rebuild because they can buy all the players they want year in and year out

  47. Maybe if the Jays switched divisions they could compete but it will never happen

  48. Also the jays would be much better off if they could draft and develope players like the rays

  49. Pretty much all of the Jays first round picks within the last 20 years or so have turned out to be complete busts what does that say about this organization their only good draft choice in that time was Halladay just pathetic

    • Let’s examine this.

      Roy Halladay was their pick in 1995. You’re entitled to your own opinion, of course, but I thought he turned out okay.
      They picked Billy Koch in 1996. Wouldn’t call him a bust either.
      They picked Vernon Wells in 1997. Not a bust.
      McGowan was picked in 2000 and he’s still around. Not a bust.
      Aaron Hill was picked in 2003 and he’s still doing pretty well in Arizona. Not a bust either.
      Ricky Romero was pretty good for a couple years, until he got the yips or whatever the fuck it was. Not a bust.
      Brett Cecil is Brett Cecil.
      James Paxton seems to be doing pretty well for himself in Seattle.
      Sanchez and Snygen are still top prospects. Too early to say whether they’re busts. Same goes for a bunch of their other recent first-rounders.

  50. Nice job by Getz. We need a comeback win. I hate wanting to change the channel as soon as we lose the lead. It will soon be summer and there will be nothing else on.

  51. I don’t like seeing this Blog being so negative I grew up reading the Toronto Star Sports and particularly Griffin and I don’t remember him being the guy yelling “Grab your pitchforks!” back then but I guess he was. He just has a lot more negative followers now that seem to just repeat his every word. I have seen him lead the charge to get Ricciardi fired as well as others, and he seems to be well into his campaign to get AA fired as well. This is bothersome to me as I feel that we don’t always have to have a revolving door with GM’s and there is a lot of very good that Alex has done. He is not without fault ,but he is learning his craft and I feel he will definitely be one of the good ones in a few years He seems to feel that because of the way the team has underperformed he only has a limited amount of bullets left in the gun, so he is waiting for that perfect shot. He is hesitating.and hopefully a deal he can live with falls into his lap at the deadline but regardless , Alex is smart enough and hard working enough to learn from his mistakes. I have read some comments on some American sites after their team loses and you don’t see their fans asking for heads to roll. They remain critically positive and move on.

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