drrosenrosen

Whoa. Some interesting news from the rock solid Twitter feed from ol’ Dr. Rosen Rosen…

Well that’s… something. Russell, a shortstop, was Keith Law’s number three overall prospect heading into the season, and number seven for Baseball Prospectus. The Jays certainly couldn’t have offered the Cubs something like that, and the idea of possibly trading for both pitchers? Shit, that’s a good one. And, I mean, as much as the Jays are currently being fucking infuriatingly stymied by the likes of Tommy Milone (and later this weekend, Brad Mills), it’s not like those guys should be immovable in Oakland’s rotation, and it’s not like they couldn’t then turn around and flip them for other pieces, if they so chose.

And for the Jays? Well, potentially a couple of arms they would have had a lot of interest in may be off the market, but likely at a price they wouldn’t or couldn’t match, which makes it tough to get too upset, really. The Jays can only do what they’re able to do, and as has been a thread in this conversation all along, there were always going to be teams with more prospect capital and the potential to push them around in any sort of auction. The A’s might be about to get a whole lot better, but at least it’s not the Orioles or Yankees. And a suitor for pitching may now be off the market, with a couple of extra arms now possibly being added to the available pool, as well.

Y’know, if this is really a thing. And it really is for both of them. Which it totally might not be.

Once we find out either way, the question becomes: what do the Jays do from here? Right now it doesn’t seem like pitching is their biggest issue anyway. With Brett Lawrie out, they desperately need a right-handed infield bat. Juan Francisco, Adam Lind, and Munenori Kawasaki all need platoon partners, and right now the only close-to-viable one on the roster is Steve Tolleson, with Erik Kratz likely soon to join him. An infielder who doesn’t need a caddy would be OK too! That’s probably priority number one, but obviously pitching isn’t going to be an issue that goes away either — the club is awfully thin behind a very untested and very potentially volatile front five. I’m not sure they were ever going to be able to get the regular infielder they need and the ace they want anyway, at least while still preserving at least some of their prospect pipeline. Despite all the chatter we’ve heard about the Jays and Cubs, a deal like this might not impact as much of what Anthopoulos was hoping to do as has been believed.

I don’t know. It doesn’t help that these guys may possibly be off the table, but it doesn’t exactly hurt to see some dominoes start to fall, either, and the market for pitching starting to be set. We may not find out that we like what it’s been set at, but at least things should be able to start to happen from there. If, y’know, there’s even a there there.

Rosenthal, though. He’s not usually off-base. We could be getting ahead of ourselves a bit here, though. Jon Heyman now tweets some words on the subject worth parsing:

So… either or? Only Russell if it’s Samardzija? Hmm…

I guess we’ll see as this develops. Or, y’know, in the morning, most likely.

Update

And the deal is done! Holy shit…

Kenny Ken Ken adds that Samardzija was scheduled to pitch tomorrow, so… fuck sakes, he could actually, theoretically, maybe even start in place of Brad Mills against the Jays on Sunday. What a world!

Keith Law has the particulars:

Jesus. Welp. Trading season is officially on, I guess.

Comments (114)

  1. It would be hilarious if they start during this series

  2. Hope shit starts jumping off soon. Getting bored of ACTUALLY WATCHING GAMES.

  3. Kenny reporting both of them going is a done deal, possibly more teams involved.

  4. I can pretty much guarantee you that the current roster of the Jays is gonna be pretty much the same at the end of the year.
    AA will be dumpster-diving, because he is loath to trade Sanchez and Stroman – both are arguably the most sought-after Jays – and surprisingly enough, no one is trading a Price or Shields for our shittier players.
    Sorry – I can’t see AA pulling the pin on those two young players for a starter or bat.

  5. looks like it is a done deal as per Kenny Ken

  6. Rosenthal says deal is done:

    Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 5m

    DEAL IS DONE: #Cubs send Samardzija and Hammel to #Athletics for Addison Russell, per sources. May be other players and team(s) involved.

    Good, now the Jays can focus on getting an infielder!

  7. Holy shit. Damn Oakland, you fuckin scary.

  8. keithlaw @keithlaw
    ·
    2m

    Cubs/A’s deal official. Samardzija and Hammel for Russell, McKinney, Straily, PTBNL. Analysis to follow on ESPN Insider.

  9. In that ballpark, their rotation is going to be filthy this year, but next year with their TJ guys coming back. Fuck me gently.

  10. Wow! Do they need 2 starters? It would be fairly Beane-esqe to flip Hammel.

    How good are the prospects going to Chicago?

  11. So…for 2 starters – 1 quite good & one above average, the Cubs got 1 mega prospect & some…other stuff?

  12. That’s quite a haul for the cubs

  13. I’ve got to think this opens the floodgates and if the Jays are going to make a move we’ll see it over the next week.

  14. Beyond Russell, the A’s system is a bit lacking. Great get to acquire Russell but I dunno. I guess everything else is gravy?

  15. I think the Jays need another starter in the event that Stroman and Hutch get worn down, but I actually feel their greater need might be a right handed infield bat at this point. Who would have thought that a couple months ago.

  16. That uh, that seems like a pretty damn fair deal.

  17. Give Oakland credit, they are going all out to do whatever it takes to win. The future is now and flags fly forever.

  18. Thats a crazy ass, straight out of fantasy baseball trade …

  19. Billy McKinny Dan Straily and addison russel

  20. So Brandon McCarthy then? I like him

  21. Just about every prospect list pegs Addison Russell
    as a monster in the making. Huge price to pay.

    Sanchez plus Stroman might have topped the A’s offer
    but AA was not going there and its doubtful the Jays
    could make a competitive offer without including
    both of those guys.
    At that price, I’m good with AA taking a pass.

  22. Interesting for the cubs, they get a great prospect but at one of 2 positions they really don’t need help.

    Good on the A’s though to get both, it’s both and impressive

    • Yes, with Castro, Alcantara, Diaz etc., the Cubs were already way overstocked at SS. Hope AA is in on it when the other shoe drops. I see another trade coming here sooner rather than later with the Cubs trading a middle infielder for???? Bryant or Diaz to the jays for ???

    • They could flip him or re-package him in another deal. or trade Castro. You never know plenty of options out there

  23. we traded d’arneau and syndgaard for a #1 or #2 in dickey and got a #3; thank god for buerhle and now stroman.

    • d’Arnaud is on the path of becoming a bust prospect and Syndergaard isn’t too hot right now either (granted in the PCL I think). Prospects are so volatile that it’s not really worth freaking out about trading them until you see them in the big leagues and actually accomplishing something.

      • He’s playing better since his recall from a shirt confidence-building demotion in Vegas. Better, at least.

        Either way, kind of silly to make such a conclusion based on his first 250 mlb at bats.

        • “He” being d’arnaud. Could say something similar for Syn too — in that its way too early to know who will be what.

          • It’ll be interesting to see if D’Arnaud gets to accomplish anything given his injury history; the reason – it’s rumoured – the Jays traded him away.

    • So far, give the edge to the jays on the dickey trade. D’arnaud has done nothing in the majors, and s’gard can’t seem to stay healthy.

      That said, if Samardjzia and Hammels cost 3 top prospects, then the price (in terms of prospects) paid for Dickey was market value. Proven MLB pitching is highly valued.

    • #3? That’s generous.

  24. Never thought much of Dan Straily. Kinda pedestrian.

  25. Why do the A’s do these trades? 0 chance shark resigns there. Wouldnt be surprised if they trade him next season.

    • Because Billy Beane saw his chance and is going for it.

      Fucking Billy Beane, man.

      • And they’ve got Parker and Griffin coming back next year, so if Samardzija walks after next year, they’re not depleted in the rotation.

        Plus if these two come back and pitch well, then they’ve got plenty of trade ammo in next year’s trading deadline to fill a need.

        Billy Beane’s really in the catbird seat now.

    • I had considered that latter part – the A’s may have a big surplus of starters next year, so they should get to recoup some prospect value by trading away one or two starters in the winter.

    • Because the A’s right now, unlike the Jays, are the clear #1 team in baseball and probable World Series favourites. Not to mention the A’s have made the playoffs the last two seasons and have gone out in the divisional round the first time, so they’d like to ensure they make it a bit further this time.

    • In order to improve their chances of winning over the next season and a half. It seems pretty obvious why they made the trade. Not all trades are made so you can keep the player forever.

  26. Omg wtf lol

  27. This basically leaves the top two starters on the market as Price (unlikely to be traded in the division, you would think) and Ian Kennedy (a Boras client, which the Jays have stayed clear of under AA/Beeston).

    There’s down-market options like Burnett, McCarthy, and Masterson, though, you do wonder – are any of them sure bets to come in and be better than what the Jays already have? At little cost, sure, you take that chance, but if their teams are demanding real prospect returns, you wonder if the Jays might be better off staying the course with their rotation.

  28. I think Beane heard Stoeten talking about Chavez and Mills. But it’s not like you can hand the A’s the trophy yet. We’ll see how these guys do in the AL

  29. It’s us and the orioles to the end, and I hate to say but our rotation isn’t going to be upgraded by price, Hamels or anyone similar. We will need to bash our way to the playoffs which is fine, but I’m so fucking tired of watching the noodle bats of Kawasaki, tolleson and these AAA scrubs.

    Please Bautista get healthy and play RF, lawrie get back ASAP !!!

  30. Is it just me or is this package comparable somewhat to Sanchez Norris and Pompey? You’ve got the top prospect and the outfielder, only difference is between Norris and Straily really since they’re at different points of their careers.

    What would any of you have said if it was the Sanchez Norris Pompey package for both guys?

  31. And the A’s cement themselves as the World Series favourite.

    Good trade

  32. There really was no finer destination for Samardzija and his Kentucky waterfall than the ugly confines of Oco Colliseum. That’s just kismet.

  33. Some news bits from down on the farm:

    Look out for up and coming 35 year old career minor leaguer Cory Aldridge who homered in his first game as a Bison and is hitting well this year (he has actually but I’m not serious). Also, Delabar struggles and takes the loss although with 0 walks.

    NH has game postponed for second day in a row, which sucks because I want to see Pompey improve on his 1 for 21 start there.

    Knuckleballer Viola throws 6 innings of one run ball in first start for Dunedin. 4 walks 0 K’s

    Alford hitting .467 in 3 games for Lansing since being promoted after struggling in Bluefield for 9 games

    Finally hate to end on bad news but Smoral gives up 5 runs in 4 innings for Bluefield. 2 walks 5 K’s

    Also, Sanchez starts tomorrow for Buffalo

  34. Nice work on the minor league info AJ

    • Thanks. MiLB First Pitch is a hell of an app.

      It’s nice to be able to check out the minor league games, especially when the major league ones aren’t going so well.

  35. So the Athletics just acquired the Shark and Hammel so AA could get an up close look at them tomorrow in Oakland before sending ALL the prospects to Billy Beane for the pair.

    RIGHT!?!

  36. The more I think about this trade, the happier I am with it. Sure, two potential rotation upgrades are off the table, but it also takes two rotation upgrade options away from our AL East competitors. The Orioles don’t have a single SP with an fWAR over 1, and the Yankees probably won’t get Sabathia or Pineida back this year. The Jays rotation has been solid, and we have servicable reinforcements available if injury strikes.

    Tampa isn’t likely to trade Price to either Baltimore or the Yankees unless it’s a huge overpay, and since the A’s took two of the best options away, that means that other teams needing a SP (like Atlanta, St. Louis, possibly the Angels even though they don’t have the prospect capital for it) will have fewer options to choose from, and can outbid the O’s and Yanks for the remaining options.

    Now, AA can focus all his scouting and negotiating resources (which are still finite, no matter how many balls in the air he seems to have at any given time) on getting the RHH infielder that we more desperately need, and bolster the rotation with whatever rental is cheap and available in late July if we need it. With the division within our grasp and the scent of a couple of playoff gate returns and an off-season ticket sales boosts, Rogers finally opens the wallet and lets AA add salary.

    I’m calling it now: Martin Prado, and either McCarthy or Burnett, whoever requires less prospect capital to acquire. 2nd or 3rd week of July.

  37. “And down goes Ali” for those that remember.

    • Much worse day. March 8, 1971. Who cares about losing those two pitchers compared to that. I was in university and that was the day of when the universe would be righted, when Ali would take back his crown that he’d been robbed of. But of course it didn’t happen.

  38. I could see AA getting an infielder by the ASB, the rental pitcher could happen in August when more teams decide their out of the race.

  39. Let’s get Franklin already.

  40. That’s brutal ! Well guess we win the hard way and hopefully get a little help in the way of a added bat and there are other pitchers out there

  41. I am happy that no one from the al east got hammels or the shark. The jays best chances of making the playoffs are to win the division. It’s likely that the wild card spots will be from the the al central or west. Another advantage for the jays is that the A’s could run away with the al west & make seattle & the angels weaker.

    The jays are now in second place in the al east & 1 game back of the wild card spot.

  42. Cubs lack pitching prospects and will surely be flipping infielders for a pitcher down the road….

    Wonder if Cubs would swap Arismendy Alcantara for Daniel Norris?

    Alcantara is ready for the big leagues and will be an upgrade over anything we have put out at 2nd. Plus we will have him cheap for a few years…

  43. Hopefully AA doesn’t do nothing in July or August in terms of not improving the team like in the offseason as that would be very disappointing.
    As well, to see the shit they put out at 2nd base until lawrie is back

    • The usual AA hate from the ‘humour is gone’/'pitching coach’/'THTfan’ troll. Predictable and stupid as ever. Fuck off.

      • In all fairness, it is possible that AA stands pat if the demands are too high for a shit market. Oakland established the price for pitching. Who knows what the price will be for position players?

      • They just t don’t get the fact of how hard it is to first find a trade partner, than the horse trading starts. Something will click but we have to have patience or you will pay way over market value for the player you want.
        AA isn’t a fool and if he see’s an opening he’s not afraid to jump in as he’s already proven.

        • I find it astonishing that more people than you would think actually believe all a GM has to do is just ask.

    • Needs more negatives…

  44. So, double kick in the junk!!! Jays fail to pick up Smardzija and then get to face him on his first start with his new team!! Well, lets hope they can make him look like crap and get back in the win column!

  45. Good for the A’s, Jays need bats and another reliever.

  46. This is how theo epstein feels:

    “I had a bunch of poop backed up in my butt from eating at a buffet last night. But i sat down on the toilet and concentrated and now i feel beter.”

  47. I don’t know why anyone thinks this is a bad thing. Sure there may be some disappointment we didn’t pull off this trade but the A’s gave up a hell of a prospect for 2 pitchers one for 1 year the other for 2

    Most importantly this keeps shark and hammels out of the AL east. Baltimore and yanks were both looking at them, yanks probably don’t have the prospects for price or shields, Baltimore does but they are high end as well.

    If we can upgrade at 2b and possibly a bench piece to compliment lind our pitching is sufficient enough, especially if morrow can make his way back

    • But, the point must be made that the A’s weren’t looking to sign either of them once their contracts are up. I wouldn’t be surprised – given the rotation they have already – if the A’s flipped one of them for a piece (or pieces) before the deadline. And don’t think they won’t be entertaining offers on Samardzija at the end of this season.

  48. I couldn’t care less about Samardzija. For what the Cubs demanded, no fucking way.

    • I’m with you on that one.

    • I’d rather have Price anyway. Who knows what the Shark would do in the AL, let alone in the SkyDome. Price at least pitches in the AL East and has had an unbelievable career thus far in all the sandbox stadiums it contains.

      • Of course … Price’s postseason stats are nothing to write home about. He has risk there and folks tend to overlook that.

        • Yah and it’s a huge amount of data of him in the playoffs so you should take that super seriously as well.

          What about dickey, morrow, hutch and stromans playoff stats? All have era’s under 1

        • Four starts. Not really a great sample size to draw from. If he has 1-2 great starts his numbers look pretty damn excellent.

          • I’m aware of the SSS, but that’s all one has to go on a lot of the time in the postseason, though.

  49. I’m a pro at baseball on my Nintendo Wii. The Jays should give me a contract and trade Bautista for Aaron Hill. I’m still pissed that Anthopoulos traded him. He was the heart and soul of this franchise. Bautista is an injury-prone scrub. Gose is better than he will ever be. Also, can we please fire Gibbons? The man openly said he got thrown out of a game to have a beer. I think that’s why the team is awful and he should go to rehab.

    • It was tough for me as a lefty facing that bitch who throws like Loup at 102 mph, but I could probably hit .250 off her, maybe I can DH tonight

      • You have more bat control if you just use one hand. Makes that bitch much easier to hit off of. I don’t understand why the Jays batters don’t try this.

  50. As a converted reliever, Shark has yet to prove he can last a full season. His first year as a starter he only pitched 170 innings. Last year, his first and only year throwing 200 innings, the wheels completely fell off mid-season, ERA over 4.00 in June and over 5.00 for each of July, Aug and Sep. This year, his June ERA is over 5.00 so is history going to repeat? I don’t know, but I do know it’s a big risk you don’t want to have with an “ace”. You bring this guy to be a stud in Sep-Oct, but he hasn’t proven he can stay effective that long.

    I’m firmly in the camp the Jays should mortgage the future for the present because the roster is built to win now (top 5 hitters on the wrong side of 30, Buehrle and Dickey pushing 40), but I’m actually happy they didn’t get Shark because it means we’re still in play for a true ace. Price is the bigger fish. As others have mentioned, he’s proven he can handle the AL East (if anything Hammel has proven he can’t) and a proven workhorse. He’s a guy we should sell the farm for.

  51. If the Jays got Prado that would be so awesome. He’s exactly the kind of player this team needs. Can play 2b or 3b but his ability to play all over the field allows the Jays to rotate their steady stream of above avg hitters in the DH role rather than find spots for them to play on the field where they are defensively weak.

    When Lawrie is back, Prado could play 2b. Otherwise, let him play 3b and let Tolleson/Kawasaki platoon at 2b until red bull is back.

    Facing a lefty, they could put Prado in LF and let Melky DH, provides a better hitting option than having a Mastro/Gose/Pillar in LF and more reliable than risking a Tolleson/Lind/Francisco as the DH instead.

    EE should never be in the OF

    Although it looks like the Jays have no offense, the bigger problem IMO is the piss poor defense. The Jays entered May as one of the better defensive clubs in baseball but with Lawrie out and Bautista out there’s been a lot more errors made and plays not made which arent reflected in the stats. Adding Prado would boost the defense while also maintaining the improved avg/OBP this current club has. They don’t need another slugger. they are still first in HR’s and thats with injuries to guys like Bau and Rasmus not even taken into account.

  52. Jays need to stand pat. Outside of a lucky9 game stretch they’re a sub .500 team. Would be incredibly silly to lose controllable prospects to take us from 80 to 82 wins, and even a 2 win improvement is probably at the high end of what players we could afford would deliver.

    In the unlikely event they’re still in it by August there could be some deals to be made then, probably on much more flexible terms.

    • I agree. Also if they shit the bed over the next two weeks move Burhle. He is having a great season and is signed for a reasonable (sic) 18mill. Honestly, sandwiched between two strong starters he could be lights out for a team down the stretch.

  53. Way to pull that trade trigger, Alex…wow…we have a new Stand Pat

  54. I don’t see Anthopoulos making a splashy trade to really improve the team. Teams want Sanchez and he’s the prospect Alex chose to keep when he traded Syndergaard. The Jays don’t really have much in the way of OF prospects so Pompey may be considered nearly untouchable. While d’Arnaud and Syndergaard may not amount to anything, they had tonnes of value prior to the Dickey trade. Because he got burned, he may be paralyzingly cautious in future possible trades.

    Sounds pretty stupid, but it’s not a secret Anthopoulos is quite reluctant to give up youth. Let’s hope I’m wrong.

    • You’re 1/2 right. AA won’t make a splashy move not because he’s gun shy, but because Rogers won’t open the chequebook.

  55. I dislike the thought of the Jays having to face Samardzija when they face the A’s in the ALCS this October.

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