chart (19)

Welp. At least they didn’t waste another solid pitching performance.

This is a frustrating team to watch right now, there is no doubt about it, and the reason why is quite simple: the Jays are not hitting enough.

It’s been bad. But that doesn’t mean that some true identity of this team has been revealed over the last miserable few weeks, though I know that a lot of negative types are being overrun by their emotions and allowing themselves to think such ridiculous things — which, of course, leads to more and more absurd ideas as fans fall deeper and deeper into blind, unchecked negativity: getting concerned about Jose Reyes laughing, overstating the importance of an undeniably atrocious throw home from Colby Rasmus, working it out in their mind to somehow find a way to blame John Gibbons for all this.

The reality is, over the last 30 days the club has been functioning with one truly dangerous hitter, who is now on the DL — Edwin Encarnacion (156 wRC+ in that span). Adam Lind and Jose Bautista have both been playing hurt, and it shows (110 and 106 respectively), and Melky Cabrera has been about what you’d expect (102, powered by a .284/.342/.394 line). Kawasaki, too, at 91 wRC+ with a .348 on-base.

Literally everybody else has been below league average at the plate.

Jose Reyes, now struggling in the field as well, and understandably drawing the ire of the fans, has hit to an 84 wRC+ over that span. Colby Rasmus is at 87. Dioner Navarro, 73. Steve Tolleson, 68. Juan Francisco, 55.

It’s been ugly, but the thing is — the perspective that we really ought to maintain, hard as it may be at the moment — is that’s not who Jose Reyes is. That’s not who a healthy Jose Bautista is. That’s not who a healthy Adam Lind is (at least not against right-handed pitching).

That may not be who Colby Rasmus is (though we’ve certainly seen him be that as well, unfortunately), but on the other hand, given their track records and the favourable platoon matchups they were seeing before injuries started taking their toll elsewhere, I think Francisco and Tolleson can be better than that, too. Probably.

It’s an awful collective slump with the bats, compounded by injuries that are keeping Lawrie and Encarnacion out and exposing the flaws in guys who shouldn’t be asked to see as much big league pitching as they have of late. But as a group, we know they can be better. Even without Encarnacion and Lind, it’s not difficult to imagine them being better.

Of course, the fact that they can be much better doesn’t mean that they will. And if what the track record shows are their real selves do show up, it doesn’t mean that will happen in time for them to stem the tide and stop this tailspin from destroying such a promising season. What’s happening now is what it is. Which also means that it’s not something magical, beyond what we can see, in the hearts of the players or those coaching, managing, or running the organization, in the sporting spirit of this city, or whatever other bullshit gets invented to try to flesh out these fairly simple facts into big narratives that speak to what must be done.

The All-Star break should help. Adding a bat via the trade market should help. Eventually getting Lawrie and Encarnacion back should help. Again, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it will help — at least not enough to turn this around and, from a still-solid position in the standings, launch an attack on the second half that gets the club right back to where we expected them to be when we saw through May and early June what they’re capable of at their best — but you absolutely cannot say that it can’t.

If that seems like a message that’s rather tepid in its positivity, well… that’s because it is. Woof. Fuck you, west coast!

Shit, it’s even got ol’ Gibbers down:


Comments (231)

  1. Oy, in Korean, means cucumber! Go Jays

  2. If there is a positive out there we will find it

    meanwhile, the half assed post game graph post has morphed into a legitimate post it seems, with actual insight

  3. wow, glad gibons doesnt see this turning around any time soon. funny how everyone on the fan590 thinks the jays still have a chance. we will be in third or fourth place by the all star break. AA needs to be fired. he missed the window of opportunity to get players in to help while they were ahead.

    • Don’t be dumb.

      • it might just be his natural state?

      • Well what solutions do you have, your highness?

        • There are no solutions because there is no problem?
          This is just a Poisson distribution of shit and all will be better once everyone is healthy. Or not. Stay the course, don’t lose your shit worrying that a great run has been undone by a horrible slide, shit happens and everyone who disagrees is a hysterical moron with no understanding of baseball.

          • So what the hell are you going to do about? Even if AA fired Gibbons and made a deal for Mike Trout and David Price, it’s not like that would’ve been some kind of magic elixer to stop the sucking and reverse a quad strain. Bar none, per capita, this town has more reactionary hockey fans watching baseball than anywhere else in the league. It’s a five game losing streak in the middle of a 162 game season. Baseball is hard. Get some perspective.

            • so much this. enjoy the fucking fact that you have a MLB team in Toronto.. i mean, is another win streak likely to happen at some point? probably.

              Watching Single A in Vancouver

            • Ahh, I see. Only opinions that count are those that you agree with. Anything else is pessimistic, reactionary drivel from Leaf fans.
              Except that the pessimists have been consistent in the criticism of this team for years. Boom or bust, no depth, no D, no speed…losing team.
              And the results seem to bear that out. But we’re the idiots?
              I’d like to see Stoeten step away from the post he is guarding (baseball is hard..fuck off.) and try to be objective about the state of the team and who should be held responsible for it’s performance rather than state that no one is to blame, there is no way to affect pro athletes an their performances, strategy and tactics are bullshit etc etc
              I still have hope mind you, I’m not a complete downer but I can’t pretend to not notice the glaring holes in this squad.
              Doing nothing isn’t really doing anything, or am I wrong?

              • Thicker than thick. This is exactly how Ford got elected.

                • You probably voted for him but I sure didn’t.
                  It’s ok Wayne, you can be smarter than the rest of us while being wrong; it doesn’t bother me.

    • The real culprit is Rogers. They won’t spend another dime on the Jays. McCarthy was placed on waivers 2 months ago, as reported by Stoten, and no one made a move to pick him up. E

      Unless the team turns things around, AA will be disbanding this team in the offseason

  4. barry davis asked gibbons. When asked if he sees light at the end of the tunnel right now, John Gibbons’ reply: “No”

    not even the manager has faith

    • Go back to leaving comments on the Blue Jays on their fb page.
      As a bonus, feel free to copy and paste this one on the house:

      “Good job Jays…..4th place he we come…Gibbons needs to go…season over….team sux…”

  5. reyes is hurt but playing and not very well. Bautista is hurt and not playing well. lind is hurt but playing and not very well. cant expect Laurie and edwin to come back and play at their full potential for a few weeks after they are back. navaro cant run. we dont steal bases. santos is horrible. izturis gone for the season. worst bench in baseball. rasmus isnt having a good year. hes still half injured.

    jays have issues. major issues

    • Fuck! No one wants to hear it! Bury your face in your pillow and cry there to muffle the sound. It’s July, the Jays have been playing terribly for a month and they’re still 3 games over .500 and in 2nd.

      I’ve been enjoying this season, and would like to keep enjoying this season, thank you very much, without having to listen to somebody’s idiot children weeping when things don’t go their way.

      • Pollyanna dopes like you are annoying. The poster is bang on. Realistic fans don’t drink Kool-aid.

        • Realistic fans? Realistic fan of what, exactly? Winning? Or baseball? Because I consider myself a fan of the latter, with the former being a nice bonus. It has been an enjoyable season, and I find my enjoyment of the game is much greater if I don’t dwell on all the negatives of not winning 162 games a season.

          So, it’s “drinking the Kool Aid” to want to enjoy a baseball season without being surrounded by negativity, then, yes, consider me drunk.

          The points were somewhat valid, fine, but it was an unnecessary, masturbatory post. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

      • I am with you on this. There is so much damn whining. I cant imagine having to be these babies parents. Why do they even watch? If it causes them so much anguish, then it is probably not worth it.

    • Who the fuck is Laurie? She sounds hot.

  6. This fucking sucks.

    Doesn’t help that the Orioles are lucky fucks that are 100% healthy right now.

  7. OK, new “aim low” goal. Try to stay at or above .500 at the ASB.

    Right now that means going at least 1-4 the rest of the way.

    One game, that’s all I’m asking.

    Who’s with me?

  8. The Angels were the opponent when the Jays started their 20-4 run in May, winning the final game of a four-game series after the Angels won the first three games.

    Hopefully the same kind of omen unfolds and this series will be the springboard to another out-of-the-blue run for the Jays.

    Yeah, I’m reaching, but hey gotta keep the faith, right? Instead of being a font of negativity….

  9. Lets wipe our butt with their toilet paper and call this thing a wash

  10. Bunch of excuses, this post. We are talking about a 9 game swing in the standings in a little more than a month. They are a pathetic bunch of fucking losers.

    Fact it this IS the true identity of this collective embarrassment management calls a baseball team. Another season, another collapse, another humiliation.

    • You don’t know much about baseball, do you?

    • Take your shit to

    • It’s baseball, dude. Swings happen. For example, which San Francisco Giants team do you think is the real one – the one that was 37-20 on June 1, or the one that is 12-20 since? It’s a 162-game season. Ups happen. Downs happen. Injuries happen. Health happens. Players get hot and players get cold. Some health, good luck and a bit of help from AA and this ship is righted again, and I’m sure you’ll be right there hopping aboard the bandwagon once more.

      • I agree but I would feel better if they had one or two of these games pulled out of the fire with some smart (lucky?) tactical moves from either AA or Gibbons.
        I know they say a good manager is only worth a handful of games, I think we could’ve used one over the past month.

    • Poor widdle bubsy is upset. Mean old baseball team.

      • I don’t know. I guess you’re all right, nothing can be done; what’s the use in trying. In the universe where “right moves” mean losing, I guess it’s just destiny.

  11. Yea they’re scuffling but the team wasn’t gonna play like they did in may all year. There was gonna be some bad play for sure. I’m kinda glad they’re getting it out of the way all at once because I would rather see them shit the bed now and still hopefully be within 3 or 4 games of a playoff spot and then play good ball the rest of the year and make the playoffs rather then have this happen in sept and blow their chances then. Just wether the storm now until everyone’s healthy and bam run to the playoffs

    • my concern is that players don’t usually get more healthy as the season progresses, especially when they continue to play while hurt.

  12. I agree with most of this post but my biggest concern is that this may well be exactly who Reyes is now. The sample size is large enough. A below average defender and a league average bat.

  13. For what it’s worth, I used the streak analyzer on Baseball Reference to look at the ’92 Jays. Their worst 30 game stretch came from games 85-117, 13-17. The 2014 Jays’ current 30-game streak is 10-20, stretching back to June 6th; this is also their worst of the season.

    So that got me thinking: since the goal of every season is to win the world series, what are the worst stretches by the world series winners, going back to 1998? Arbitrary endpoint because I did this manually instead of writing a Python script to scrape the site.

    1998 Yankees, 1999 Yankees: 15-15
    2000 Yankees: 12-18
    2001 D’backs: 12-18
    2002 Angels: 16-14
    2003 Marlins: 11-19
    2004 Red Sox: 12-18
    2005 White Sox: 13-17
    2006 Cardinals: 11-19
    2007 Red Sox: 14-16
    2008 Phillies: 12-18
    2009 Yankees: 14-16
    2010 Giants: 13-17
    2011 Cardinals: 12-18
    2012 Giants: 14-16
    2013 Red Sox: 15-15

    There are no world series winners in the last fifteen years with a stretch as bad as the Jays have had now. That’s probably because championship-calibre teams don’t play this poorly for this long. So, realistically, I’d forget about going all in and trading the farm for help. So far, Stroman’s been great, looking like a real major-league pitcher. Sanchez and Norris are probably on the way. Morrow will be back with a robot hand (this is a lie). Bautista and Lind will heal up.

    Realistically, this is the nadir of the Jays’ season, though that doesn’t make it any easier to watch.

    • Oops, I lied. 2002 Angels were 15-15.

    • Nadir? They should be so lucky.

      • For what it’s worth, they have to bottom out way worse and hit 6-24 before they match the futility of the 2013 Astros. The Jays, hard as it is to see, are not a bad team. They’re not a AAA team. They’ve got reasonable starting pitching, a below-average bullpen, and the bats are stone-cold. A healthy Encarnacion and Lawrie in the line-up will help immensely, and I think they’ll go on a good tear after the all-star break, once people have had a chance to rest up.

        But the Mastroianni/Glenn experience is badly exposing their lack of depth. Gose might not ever hit over .240 with low power, but defensively he’s very strong, and I’d bet that he makes the throw to the plate last night.

        • save the Gose woulda/coulda/shoulda horse shit. If they wanted the guy that could make a throw to the plate, get caught stealing, fail to lay down bunts strikeout alot he wouldn’t be in triple A. In the meantime enjoy the guy that missed the throw to the plate, hits dingers, and strikes out alot.

    • The Jays also have a streak of 23-7 this year, and only three of the last 16 World Series winners have had a better streak. Two others have matched it. Eleven of the last 16 World Series winners won it all while never playing as well for as long a stretch as the Jays did in June.

      1998 Yankees: 26-4
      1999 Yankees: 21-9
      2000 Yankees: 21-9
      2001 D’backs: 22-8
      2002 Angels: 23-7
      2003 Marlins: 21-9
      2004 Red Sox: 24-6
      2005 White Sox: 23-7
      2006 Cardinals: 21-9
      2007 Red Sox: 22-8
      2008 Phillies: 21-9
      2009 Yankees: 24-6
      2010 Giants: 22-8
      2011 Cardinals: 21-9
      2012 Giants: 21-9
      2013 Red Sox: 22-8

      I think the takeaway from this is that baseball is weird, and a lot of weird things are going to happen over the course of a long season. The Jays have had one stretch this year where they played as well as any championship calibre team, and they’ve had another where they’ve played worse than any recent champion. Realistically, they’re somewhere in between (which probably puts them in the “playoff contender” category), and I don’t think we should be leaning more towards the “this team sucks” category just because the struggles have come more recently.

      • That’s a good point. But I think the naysaying is kind of reasonable, because the losing streak is what’s happening now – it’s the current state of the team. Yes, they went 23-7, and that’s a fantastic mark. But that also required all the hitters to be both healthy and hot, which is not currently the case. It’s great news that Edwin might be back in a couple of weeks, but Lawrie’s still got the broken finger. And while even he wasn’t great, he was clearly an upgrade over Tolleson/Francisco (especially considering his defensive upside).

        The Jays need another good run to get into first place and finish the season there. They’re not going to get that from the team as it’s fielded today. I think they might get a game or two over five hundred for a particular month, but that’s not enough to do much more than play second- or third-place baseball. Realistically, people need to get healthy, and then hot, for the Jays to make the playoffs.

        Here’s hoping!

        • I agree, for the most part. But I don’t think they need to go on that run right now. For now, they need to tread water and not fall too far behind for when Lawrie and Edwin get back. Right now, unfortunately, they’re not treading water… they’re drowning. Even with the roster as constructed, I think they can play around .500 for a couple weeks, which I think would be good enough to set a healthy team up for a run at the division.

          • The stats about winning and losing streaks are fine but they are all meaningless to the context in which the Jays find themselves now. If you lose 20 in a row it doesn’t matter if the rest of the division stinks worse.

            • If by “the context in which the Jays find themselves now” you mean “2nd place in the AL East and 3 games out of first with 71 games left to play” then I’m OK with how things stand right now.

    • Cool to look at, but there are streaks of 11-19 and 12-18 on that list. We’re talking a difference of one and two wins. Is that really a significant enough difference to warrant giving up on the season all together? I would say no, it definitely is not.

  14. Guys were mired in a horrible slump and have key players hurt. Shit like this happens but our key players that will be back by the end of the month. Once this team gets healthy again I can see another run to the top. It’s plain to see this team is dogshit when our main guys are missing as our AAA depth is non existent.
    Let’s hope that AA can pull off a buy low player that takes off with a change of scenery as it looking like the cheap fucks at Rodgers aren’t budging on the cap.
    The first half gave us a cushion that we haven’t had a chance to enjoy for quite some time. We are still in position to win this fucker with a strong second half.
    Let’s rock this boat into October.

    • Pray they can stay 5 games back. Anything more it is over

      • Yeah, remember when Baltimore was 6 back? Totally fucked them. They’ll never get a sniff of first place.

        • The problem is that it requires a big swoon on the part of the first-place team, like the Jays are experiencing now, to make up any ground. Remember when we were rolling and the Sox rattled off like, 8 in a row, but only picked up a game or two?

  15. “But that doesn’t mean that some true identity of this team has been revealed over the last miserable few weeks”

    If there is anything that the past 9 months of Blue Jays baseball has shown us, this is exactly the true identity of this team. I have no idea how this team can play 2 good months of baseball in 9 (going on 10) and anybody can possibly believe there’s something better here.

  16. I’m trying to be positive. I really am. But last year was the most singularly depressing season I’ve had as a Jays fan, and I really don’t want this year to somehow beat it.

    It’s just…fuck. Weaver bows out early, leaving the Angels to scramble…and the Jays STILL can’t score more than 2 runs?

    How soon until the bars open?

  17. The only saving grace is that the AL East is so weak this year, but if the Jays don’t stop being dogshit, it will be for naught. The season isn’t over yet, but it sure as hell will be if they don’t at least play .500ish ball until EE/Lawrie come back.

    This month will be the true test of AA. If he keeps sitting on his hands or just continues to dumpster dive, it will be harder and harder to argue against the naysaying crowd.

    • I get the impression that AA wants to do something, badly. This is more damning of Rogers, to be honest. The players proactively passing the hat to try to get Santana was deeply embarrassing. When the team is in first place for the longest stretch since the world series years, it deserves better than an ownership who places the kind of restrictions on the team that could very well see the Jays out of the playoffs, again. And when the team has not made the playoffs once since said ownership took over, not once, not even a one-game wild-card playoff, I think that shows you just how committed Rogers is to this team.

      The last couple of decades make the Jays feel like the AL Pirates, except the Pirates actually made the playoffs recently. If Rogers doesn’t feel like making an effort to create a great ball club, they should sell the team (maybe to David Thomson, MLSE, whatever), and move on.

      • There’s also the possibility that there are moves AA can make right now and that he has even been approved by ownership but that he doesn’t see the value in the trade. Maybe he COULD make a move for Chase Headley right now, but he’s not willing to part with the type of prospect the Padres are asking for in return for a major question mark. These are the kinds of things we just don’t hear about.

        I want to see moves made, but, more importantly, I want to see the RIGHT moves made. I don’t want to see a GM who goes out an makes a desperation, win-now move. If the Diamondbacks are demanding Norris or Sanchez for Hill or Prado, I want to see AA stand pat.

        I’m extremely skeptical of Rogers, but we also heard that they were nearing the payroll limit before the Marlins trade happened, so I’m probably just as skeptical of the media reporting on them.

        • That’s just it though – SHOULD they have a spending limit? I mean, sure, in the grand of scheme of things, ownership may not want them to be a luxury tax team like LA or New York, but with contracts being what they are these days, they should be prepared, as the owners of an MLB team, to spend $150-$189 million (the luxury tax threshold). These are ridiculously wealthy owners, probably the wealthiest ownership group in baseball. I commend them, really, for making the trades they made to get up to the $136 million they’re spending now. But, those moves were made as Year 1 of a 3-year window of competitiveness. AA wasn’t touting Year 1 as “the World Series year”, or even as the “post-season year”. He said it was Year 1 of a 3-year window, meaning that ownership should have committed to doing what Alex needed each year of those 3 years.

          And, if they aren’t going to bother anymore – if they won’t spend to help the front office – then say so. This ownership group is silent and it drives me crazy. Don’t let your GM twist in the wind and get criticized by fans if moves aren’t being made because of ownership. If indeed Rogers has snapped the wallet shut for the foreseeable future, then fucking own up to it and say so. If you want to start the fire-sale, go ahead and do it – just stop screwing the fans around with “maybe they will, maybe they won’t”.

          • Right now, AA looks like a green rookie who got lucky on a couple of moves but doesn’t have the ability to put together a contender.
            Sure, he’s said some shit that made fans feel really good about the future but then nothing has happened since to confirm that it was anything but talk. The Miami trade was a big move, added a ton of salary but that’s about all it did.
            This is his 12th round, the team is in dive mode and needs help big time. AA needs to prove that he is more than an astute system gamer with one great trade (Wells) to his name or he’s done at the end of the year.
            Maybe Rogers has already lost faith and banned him from trading prospects. Maybe the best he can do is grab dfa’s and quad a’s and hope for luck.
            You have an aging team that is breaking down at the halfway point of the season, no bench, no depth, no young bats with promise…just two sluggers and some solid young arms. It could be argued that AA has done nothing in 2+ years other than rearrange the deck chairs.

  18. Dinner looks beat up and tired. I’m high on him overall, but let’s remember that he hasn’t been an everyday guy in a while. If this team is to do well having Navarro “fresh” would help.

    Bring up Kratz.

    RH DH
    PH for Lind
    PH for Thole
    Rest up Dinner and get him strong.

    • I think Thole should be sent down. Whats with your #3 or #4 starter needing a personal catcher anyways? Also, Reyes could use a game off by the looks of it.

  19. I suggested earlier that this team ‘felt’ like a sub.500 team and was called stupid, making things up and in need of an emotional crutch. But over the 9 months this team has been together they have played only 2 months of above .500 ball. That is a pattern of failure. The question is why. I think it’s more than lack of depth. There are other factors that may be at play. In any group these factors affect performance. It’s not magical. It’s science – social science – Group Dynamics an adjunct to Group Behaviour Theory. Here’s a brief intro from Weinberg and Gould’s Foundations of Sport and Exercise Psychology.
    Baseball is not totally totally individual.

    • I would love to see a Social Science study that examines what has caused the Red Sox to go from good to shit to good to shit over the last few years.

    • No. The only ‘science’ allowed in baseball has to be approved by Bill James. Take your ‘knowledge’ and shove it up your bum, you are a moron.
      Seriously though, I think most of us understand that this team is way better when completely healthy. The concern is, why are they so terrible when they aren’t?
      It’s not for lack of leadership or team cohesiveness.
      It’s because outside of JB and E5, they have no consistent bats. They have no ability to manufacture runs because they have no speed or contact hitters and the defense is shit.
      Unless the wonder twins are raking, this is a horrible lineup that will lose 7 of 10, 19 times out of 20.

    • @phoenix – I’m not as sure as you seem to be that a pattern of failure put a tumour on Melky’s spine, or entrapped a radial nerve in Brandon Morrow’s arm, or snapped a ligament in Reye’s ankle, or blew out Josh Johnson’s arm, or fucked up Bautista’s hip, or forced Lawrie to miss the first month of the season. So, I think it’s safe to write off the first six months of this team being together as a horrible combination of bad luck and worst-case scenarios, and maybe focus on this year.

      • Two out of three months below five hundred this year.
        Don’t get me wrong I have been a Jays fan since opening day at the Ex and am hoping, longing for them to break out. But that has not been their pattern. It’s not negative to suggest other factors such as team dynamics, which can be influenced by ownership and management as well, might an alternate explanation.

      • At some point, even if true; consistent bad luck means you fire the GM and get a new talisman.
        Fact is, depth is the best charm to ward off the evil spirits. AA has to be responsible for something doesn’t he? I mean, he is the GM.

        • We traded a big chunk of that depth to get Reyes, Dickey, et al, though.

          It was a roll of the dice, and a roll of the dice pretty much every Jays fan (and a lot of baseball people) were all in on. It hasn’t worked.

          I’m not sure firing AA is the answer, though. He’s shown he can draft well, and generate prospects that others value. After emptying the cupboard, there’s a lot of very good talent at the lower levels.

          I know this for sure…teams that don’t have consistency at the management levels are never the ones that contend. Hell, as a hockey city we should understand the damage of flip flopping at the top. It feels good to the fanbase to lop off a head for a frustrating season, but it’s not like it’s some magic cure. Most of the time it’s the opposite.

        • ya he’s responsible to assembling a team capable of making playoffs, something no BJ GM has done in a long while

  20. So if AA makes no moves what will you djf folk do?

    • What will DJF folk do? Nothing….because what can the Jays do in regards to a trade. They only have a bag of balls to offer to get value back. Sorry fans, this is the team.

      • If they are willing to take on salary they can get some decent pieces I think. It remains to be seen if Rogers will approve a trade in which we take on salary. I fear that they won’t and this is our team. But as Stoeten would surely say, I have no actual clue about what rogers wants to do and I should fuck off and eat shit because I’m an idiot.

    • I’ll still enjoy big league baseball, that’s what I’ll do.

      I want the Jays to do better than they are, sure, and I’m truly disappointed by this month, but it’s not like I’m gonna spend my time whining or posting reactionary shit.

  21. I wonder if AA would ever consider getting a different catcher and sending Thole to AAA to trading him away. Kottaras was already mentioned and would be a big improvement as backup to Navarro. Seems like the team is hamstrung having to carry Thole on the roster just to catch a knuckleball.

    • Great point! This whole thing with Dickey is handcuffing the team in a way. He demands to have a personal catcher and he has 6-8 record and the personal catcher fucks up your lineup. No wonder Gibbons needs a beer

      • Why does the 6-8 record matter?

        • you want your top 3 starter to have a loosing record? That does not matter?

          • I think the point is that the record says nothing about the pitcher or the catcher.

            • I look at the whole personal catcher thing with what Greg Maddux did for the Braves. He put up amazing numbers and gave his ball team a chance to win. You can get away with the personal catcher scenario with a guy like Maddux on the mound. I see Dickey as a guy who will give you a 50/50 chance to win. Dickey is a good athlete and he gives you innings, but I need a little bit more on shutting down another teams offense.

          • You know who was a shitty pitcher in 2010? Felix Hernandez. Dude had 13 wins and 12 losses!!!!! I certainly have no confidence in Hernandez because I’m a fucking twat who cannot understand that a pitcher has no control over his team’s run production, which means wins and losses aren’t indicative of his abilities.

            • King Felix also had the peripheral stats of a #1, which is why he won the Cy Young that year. Dickey has pitched more like a #4/5 this year. It’s fair to say that on this team, Buerhle, Hutch, and Stroman have pitched better, and an argument could be made for Happ as well.

              • I don’t think anyone’s really arguing that, though. We’re just saying it’s dumb to say “He’s 6-8!” as if it’s some kind of failing of his. His ERA is 4.10, which is better than Wei-Yin Chen (8-3) and Homer Bailey (8-5). If Dickey were 8-3 right now with the rest of his numbers staying the same, that wouldn’t make him a better pitcher.

                • I say it would. Wins mean something. Do one thing different in a game and instead of being down 3-0 in the 2nd inning, you’re up 1-0 in the 3rd. Do that consistently and you’re 8-3 instead of 6-8 and the peripherals don’t change at all but you are most definitely a better pitcher in the context of the actual game (rather than in the isolated pitching performance context).
                  That’s not to say that W’s are completely in a pitchers control but still, I do think they do have value in describing what a pitcher is.
                  In any sport, when something happens is just as important as what happens; most statistics won’t tell you when something happened.

                  • But that absolutely does change the peripherals. That’s the point. If he allows fewer hits/runs/walks, his numbers improve and it improves the team’s chances of winning.

                • @Philbert, if Dickey were 8-3, we would be in first place still. Is that not what we want from this team. Win a division? Win a World Series? Sorry to sound old school, but I don’t bother with the small stats.

                  • Everything you said there is 100% accurate. But the discussion wasn’t about whether I do or don’t want Dickey to pitch better/have more wins. I would love it if he had a better record, but if all his other numbers stayed the same except for the win-loss record, that wouldn’t make him a better pitcher, it would just mean he had better defense/more run support/more fortunate run distribution/etc.

            • Ya but, baseball is a zero sum competition? Someone wins and someone loses. Sure a pitcher can’t control his teams run production directly but can’t he…I dunno, pitch better? Keep his team in it until they put something up, not give up a 3spot every single fucking game? Take some pressure off the bats so it isn’t do or die every single at bat…maybe step up, bear down and just fucking do it?
              Wins do matter, they might not be the best indicator of a pitcher’s talent but they do tell you something about a guy, most of the time (moreso starters than relievers).

              • I remember once David Cone saying he did not care about ERA, strike outs, etc…..he only cared that he giving his team a chance to win. Tell guys like Jack Morris or Dave Stewart that wins are not important. If you ever pitched at a high level, you have to understand pitching can be just as powerful and a great offensive lineup. Pitchers have the ball in their hands and can control a great batting line up. That is my whole point with Dickey and Thole. What does Thole give to this team?

                • David Cone can say whatever he wants. And what he said sounds about right… a pitcher’s job is to put his team in the best possible position to win the game. A win-loss record doesn’t tell you how well he did that.

                  • You mean 194-126 career record David Cone?
                    Ya, I’d say he knows something about pitching. We can agree on that.

                    • 194-126 record is not HOF, but Cone was 5 time World Series champ and pitched in some big games.

                    • We should probably ask CC Sabathia instead. He has a better record.

                    • By your logic, we should ask Jason Fasor. He’s really good at blowing games but apparently that doesn’t matter coz baseball is hard, wins mean nothing.
                      A pitcher can give up a 3 run blast in the 7th inning when his team is up 6-0 and win or, he can give up that blast in the 2nd inning and lose 3-1.
                      His peripherals don’t change but he gets the L instead of the W. You can play dumb all you want but you know I’m right.

              • What do wins tell you about Rick Porcello (11-5) and Yovani Gallardo (5-5), who have nearly identical ERAs and peripherals?

              • yeah, dickey needs to like, try harder. bear down.

              • I think pitcher’s need to have heart when it really counts. They need to put their nose to the grindstone when the game’s on the line so they can win one for the team. I also think that Jack Morris should have entered the HOF on the first ballot because he won a lot of games.

            • Dickey also has a 4.90 RA9
              0.9 B-WAR
              0.6 F-WAR

              There isn’t much dressing up Dickey’s performance this year; he’s been bad.

              Players performing at a worse than league average rate shouldn’t be getting personal catchers.

    • I certainly hope the only reason Thole is on the roster is not to burp Dickey. Does anyone believe that if Kratz was catching The Dick instead of Thole that he’d really be more or less than what he’s been? Nothing against Thole, mind you, but the Jays aren’t deep enough to carry a personal catcher for a guy who isn’t putting up elite numbers.

      • it’s more about having a guy who can literally ‘catch’ dickey’s knuckler. there isn’t some magical relationship between the two, it’s just that the others have (seemingly) had issues catching dickey (i have to assume it’s been tried, and felt to not be worth the passed balls).

        • I dunno…just because Arencibia couldn’t doesn’t mean that another catcher wouldn’t be able to (JP sucked at a lot of things). You’d think an athletic catcher (I’m thinking Kratz more than Navarro) would be able to adjust.

        • @Yertu, if that is the case, Dickey had better be dominating the league to have a personal catcher. Thole handcuffs this team

    • Didn’t the Red Sox win two titles (2004, 2007) while carrying a shittier knuckleballer (Wakefield) while carrying an equally shitty personal catcher? (Mirabelli) very different teams of course, but kinda makes that argument seem dumb.

  22. Make of this what you will, but Greg Brady of the Fan (@bradyfan590) tweets:

    “Media friend from Chicago tells me Blue Jays “knocking harder” on door to acquire Sox 2B Gordon Beckham. Have had a long-time interest in him.”

    • Id like to see it. Yeah he’s not the greatest but is a legitimate mlb starter. I’d like to see a pickup like that maybe Headley as well and a solid rh 4th of that can play center along with a couple rental bullpen guys. Solid if not spectacular rentals could shore up the team and give it the depth it has needed all year and a better chance to make playoffs. Said it before the year and think it now, don’t want to see the farm traded for a mediocre chance to make the playoffs. If the jays were six games up like a month ago then wouldn’t mind seeing a Sanchez Norris and Pompey for price and zobrist type deal. As is now it isn’t worth the gamble to bankrupt the farm and if there is cash would rather see an extension for Cabrera and Jansenn and hope the farm can help within window of contention the next couple years

  23. I REALLY hope that AA can find a trade partner in the next two weeks, we need something to keep us afloat until we get Lawrie and Edwin back.

    Don’t let all the good erode away.

  24. This is why AA needs to be fired. For 5 years we’ve seen constant waiver wire pickups, guys dfa’d after 1 game, roster shuffling back and forth to AAA. He actually said “we didn’t talk about defense” in regards to bonifacio. We had 3 catchers leaving no one on the bench. No backup cf. He cuts muni in spring and now he’s the starting 2b batting 2nd and the best hitter on the team? Remember the jojo reyes experiment? Or Omar visquel? or JPA?

    His roster moves have been a complete embarassment. He really has no idea how to build a ML team so he guesses and hope someone sticks. He has no bench and no depth at AAA so when players get injured this is what happens.

    • The season can still be salvaged and the Jays can still make the playoffs, which is the goal for this team. If they keep sliding and they don’t make the playoffs, then they have no choice but to fire the guy.

    • I would love it if you can find the AA quote where he said, we didn’t talk about defense. I remember him saying we didn’t place enough emphasis on defense (something along that lines). To suggest they don’t talk about defense is asinine. But hey, prove me wrong and I’ll apologize.

      • Thank you! I’ve heard so many times here that “AA didn’t care about defense!” but all he ever said was that they didn’t care ENOUGH about defense. There’s a huge difference there.

        • No there is no huge difference. You’re just playing semantics. You can stick anybody at any position and say his defense is good enough. It doesn’t mean that it is. What do you expect AA to say, “he’s a shit defender”? He will always say that player can play acceptable defense because he actually believes it, but it doesn’t make it true and his roster moves have proven this.

      • I’m pretty sure he said it but your quote is just as damning isn’t it? and yes they put very little focus on defense. izturis, visquel, francisco, cory patterson, bonfiacio, JPA. See a pattern here?

        Remember the fiasco of edwin at 3rd?

        One minute boni’s defense doesn’t matter because his hitting is so great, next year goins hitting doesn’t matter because his defense is so great. Which one is it?

        • OK. But seriously. Pretty simple not to make shit up to suit your argument. Also, sometimes trades work, sometimes they don’t. Lost in all this pandering of fire AA is a pretty big omission: Hutchison and Stroman. Pretty sure if they were on other teams everyone would be bitching about why AA didn’t draft them. The guy is getting major league talent on the roster. Maybe he jumped the gun on the rebuild, but I would have done the same in his position. Give this ORG a chance instead of bitching and moaning, because before you know it we’ll be stuck with a new JPR version 2.0.

          • Listen shit head I didn’t make it up. I remember him saying it on an interview. I can’t go through all his audio to find it to make your little head happy. speaking of making shit up. Hutch was drafted by JPR so get your facts straight.

            And for every stroman he passed on sale and wacha.

            • You’re definitely making shit up. I found a quote where he says “From a defensive standpoint, maybe it’s something we didn’t weight enough in the offseason.” That’s pretty different from “We didn’t care about defense.”

              As far as the draft goes, the one move I really hated was when AA took Aaron Sanchez when the more highly touted Peter Tago was still on the board, or when he went way off the board for Noah Syndergaard when he could have had a first-round talent in Seth Blair. He really botched that 2010 draft.

              • once again shit head where did I write “we didn’t care about defense”

                continue making shit up just to be a troll. not wasting any more time on you

                • Well for starters, I’m a different shit head than the first shit head you called a shit head, but that’s OK, shit head.

                  Here’s an exact quote from you: “He actually said “we didn’t talk about defense” in regards to bonifacio.”

                  He didn’t “actually say” that. You’re free to call it semantics all you want, but you’ll still be wrong.

                  • and philbert how do you know he didn’t say that??? other than you making it up of course

                    • Dude (chick pea)…it’s impossible to prove a negative. You would have to bring up everything he did say…to prove what he didn’t say…and you still couldn’t prove he didn’t say it. Get it?

                    • I’m making up the fact that he didn’t say it? So, to you, it’s my responsibility to comb through every quote that has ever been attribute to AA in order to prove that that one simple phrase isn’t among them, instead of it being on you to find the quote you’re attributing to him?

            • Last comment I’ll make. Learn what a troll is. I just responded to your comments. I didn’t bait you on by calling you a shithead…which i guess makes you more of a troll. But whatever, I’m not going to wallow in the muck.
              As far as saying Hutchison was drafted by AA, guess I made a mistake. See? Admitting you’re wrong isn’t so hard after all, is it? You should try it some time. But thanks for the few minutes of entertainment of watching you squirm to be right after everyone calls you out on your fallacious argument.

              • yes you had to admit you made a mistake because you had no choice since I easily proved you wrong.

                The fact is AA thought boni could play defense and he DIDN’T. CASE CLOSED. He was wrong and he has noone to blame other than himself.

                It doesn’t take a rocket scientest to figure out that a utility player who’s played his entire career on grass would have problems on turf does it? Not only did he do it once he did it twice now with reyes. He already admitted the grass/turf issue as something he didn’t consider. So yeah it should be obvious that he doesn’t focus on defense.

                • But see, we were clearly discussing one thing, then you changed your point once it was clear you were wrong. You attributed a quote to AA that he pretty clearly never said. That’s been the discussion all along. Now suddenly we’re talking about Bonifacio?

                • You spelled “scientist” wrong.

        • Let’s discuss all the players you just brought up to prove your point:

          Izturis – Last year was the first year since 2006 that he played poorly defensively, and he looked great to start this season.
          Vizquel – Not on the team anymore.
          Francisco – Has played reasonably well at third.
          Patterson – Had a long history as a good defensive player, not on the team anymore.
          Bonifacio – Not on the team anymore.
          JPA – Not on the team anymore.
          Edwin – Doesn’t play that position anymore.

          So, to answer your question, yes, I do see a pattern. Two, actually. One is that defense is extremely difficult to judge, and sometimes players with a positive track record have bad seasons. The second is that AA didn’t value defense highly enough in the past and has made adjustments to try to accommodate for that while finding a balance between offense/defense.

          • How many people got excited about JPA when he first came up? How many people loathed Encarnacion before 2012? Please fuck off with your crystal ball, chick pea. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    • So, this team (and organization), which just spent over a month in first place, is worse than the team he inherited?

      • can any of you stat guys put it out there on how many combined months has this team been in first place in the past five years of AA being in charge? Just saying and this is not a dig at AA…Shit happens

        • I would guess that this year is the first time, unless there was maybe a time in early April one year or something. It’s kind of unfair to judge the team based on AA’s entire tenure though, considering they were rebuilding until the Marlins trade happened.

          But yeah, it’s been a dismal 9 months, with the exception of May/June this year.

  25. Dont tell me injuries are the root problem of all this. Lame excuse and tons of teams are dealing with injuries. If you feel well enough to be in the lineup, you have to perform. Every year injuries are used as an excuse for this team, its pathetic. Take a guy like lind for example. He has chronic back problems and has always been a streaky hitter like this. I cant wait till they get rid of him this offseason.

    • Soo…. if you can’t perform 100%, you need to sit? So you’d rather they run Gose or Pillar out there instead of letting Bautista – who even when injured is hitting at above league average – go out there at 80%?

      This isn’t a Vernon Wells situation, where his pride is dragging the team down. The issue is that the injured players are still the best option. Is that unfortunate? Yes. Would it have been nice to get more depth going into the season? Absolutely. But until there’s a predictable payroll commitment, this is the team you get. So instead of whining about streaky Lind, cheer for your damn team and try to do something productive about ownership.

    • Adam Lind is tied with Ryan Braun, Carlos Gomez and Hunter Pence as the 27th best hitters in Major League Baseball since the start of 2013.

      Can’t WAIT until he’s gone!

  26. I think that a lot of people here don’t have the constitution to be baseball fans.

    • If people didn’t get like this when they were losing then nobody would get excited when they win. At that point the Jays would have a much bigger problem on their hands.

      That’s what sports is about, feeling the highs and the lows about something completely insignificant. Such as men swinging sticks at balls.

      People complaining about a fans right to complain are comical. Apathy is the worst thing for a team because at that point nobody cares.

      • That’s a ridiculous argument. How are passion and stupidity synonymous?

        • Once you start with the premise that caring about a man hitting a ball over a fence is intelligent, how can anything that comes after be stupid?

          It’s nausaiting reading all the high horse comments about how intelligent it is not to care about a losing streak.

          I happen to be one that doesn’t get high or low but I don’t think I’m in a good position to comment on the intelligence of a person due to an opinion on baseball. The notion is pretty messed up.

          • You’ve discredited reason in an attempt to empower an argument about intellect. That’s rich. Last I checked nobody was placing baseball above a discussion about Heidegger’s theory of being and time. Then again, if someone were to be so bold I certainly wouldn’t be turning up my nose at the idea. Get a grip, Shostakovich.

            • The point was to let people enjoy it in their own way as all it is is an escape.

              People use professional sports to vent their frustrations to celebrate when there is no actual reason to. And yes, to make comments about stuff very few of us have any insight to.

              Some are prone to praise a GM for doing something without knowing what the other options were (such as the FLA trade) and some critize for the same reasons. Some think Reyes is slumping some think middle infielders in their 30s often decline steeply.

              In the end it’s however you want to see it. From either perspective it’s not really a comment on intelligence or whether or not someone should be watching baseball.

              That’s what the sports fan is and why there is never going to be a unifying way to view the exact same events. This fuels arguments and makes for some entertainment. What it doesn’t do is matter. But yes, point taken, if someone wants to use sports to feel smarter than someone that is their right too.

            • Now I understand why you’re such a sanctimonious prat. You listen to russian classical music and read physics books. Probably couldn’t run a mile in 20minutes or hit a ball off a tee though.
              Explains why you have such a generous grasp on athletics.

      • I’m not complaining. People can do what they like.

        However getting too high of too low on a season that is 6 months long that is ultimately a game of failure has got to be exhausting.

        This team is in the mix. Sure it’s a bad slumpy streak, but that’s baseball.

        • Yep. I’m as passionate as anyone, and I shout stupid things at my TV and sometimes after a west coast game I go to bed pissed off. But I think most people can still take a second to use logic and think things through before saying “Reyes sucks!” and “Fire Gibbons!” and claiming that the season is over.

  27. It has been an oddly frustrating year despite the fact that they’re legitimately in a playoff race.

    When they lose, you immediately get pissed at AA for not upgrading the roster. When they win, you also get pissed because you think dammit this is their window,they need to make moves to gear up for the playoffs.

    Nobody wants Kawasaki hitting with the season on the line in September.

  28. keep waiting AA you will definitely hold on to the prospects now. in a few more weeks we will be able to add more.

    Now is the time to trade buehrle

    • We should trade all of your bad players because they are on a losing streak and can’t play baseball. We should get Mike Trout and David Price because they know how to win. The Blue Jays should fire John Gibbons and get Borje Salming to be the couch because he knows how to do defence.

  29. Don’t forget that we don’t want to further deplete our already depleted farm system. Sooo it’s going to be a long summer.

  30. Listing a few of the positives

    Jays have been seeing a LOT more pitches this year and that bodes well for the future. I mean more than Yankees and Red Sox and Orioles who are said to be patient teams. They are one of the MORE patient teams at this point. Seitzerization is working and will probably get better.

    Starting pitching is WAY better than expected.

    They have been losing winable games which is way better than losing games they had no chance to win like in many of the past seasons. They’re still not far “off” so a turnaround looks more possible and probable.

    The games are mostly exciting which is good for fans and SHOULD sustain us through this very rough patch.

    There are too many commenters in here that think that jumping off the boat in a storm is the best and proper strategy OR like buy a new crew, or trade for one when a lot of fantasy trades just cannot be made by pushing a button.

  31. Cole Calhoun looks like he’s baked as a cake all the time. For that reason alone, I hope he plays well enough to win a bench spot.

  32. Anyone see what’s on the waiver wire today?

  33. Anyone remember when the Rays made the playoffs after being 11.5 back at the end of July 2011?

    No, probably not. Baseball, folks.

    • And who hit a huge home run on the final day? Dan fucking Johnson, who currently plays for the Buffalo Bison.

    • Was that the year with the incredible final day of the season, where the Rays made the playoffs in extra innings and the Red Sox were eliminated?

      Because that September was beautiful, even if the Jays didn’t factor in.

      • The single most incredible single day of baseball I’ve ever seen. I can’t imagine baseball ever being crazier than that. Had the TV and dialed up and was in disbelief.

        Ever read Bill Simmons’ diary of that day? One of my favourite baseball articles ever.

        “8:25 — Batting for the Yankees in the top of the 11th: Rudi Stein, Miguel Aguilar and Timmy Lupus.”

        • Bill Simmons writes articles? Could have fooled me the last few years.

          • There was a great dig at him by a reader in his mailbag:

            “You might want to change your job description in your news feed. It says you’re a columnist.”

    • Yeah for sure, logically speaking they could still come back and steal the division with a hot August/Sept.

      That does not change the fact that the current product is spirit crushing disappointment of the highest order.

  34. Fyre Gobbons and Fyre AAA. This team sucks and we should of signed Robby Cano.

    • You’re right, they also should’ve traded for Fielder and Kershaw.

      • Absolutely. This team doesn’t have enough grit either. We should find either a scrappy guy like David Eckstein or a respected veteran like a Frank Thomas or an Omar Vizquel. If our fucking egghead GM could get his head out of his spreadsheets and pay attention to leadership and chemistry and sign more guys like that we’d make the playoffs every time.

        • Wait! Had AA realized that Fielder would be out with a neck injury, then he’d have traded for him and the team would be in first. Worst GM in MLB!

        • Maybe he should? The results his spreadsheets generate aren’t looking great. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if it is broke; deny that it is broken and call anyone who suggests otherwise a moron.

  35. But Rogers vetoed the deal because they’re cheap fucks and don’t give a shit about winning.

  36. Guys guys guy…stop attacking each other…things start going south and the posters start eating their own.

    The team isn’t hitting …really hasn’t been consistently since second game of St. Louis series. I get that …but let’s not use that as a reason to cannibalize each other

    All it takes is one game to turn it around

    The break is coming at a perfect time

    I’m not worried unless you can convince me they are serious about giving mastrioni regular run for the rest of the year and leave Kratz down in AAA…which you can’t

  37. This organization has a horrific record at developing position players. I don’t see how this can be denied. It has really hamstrung us in terms of depth and results in Glen and mastrioni types getting important innings

    The last position player we developed that was of any consequence was Aaron fucking hill, although one could argue that Yan Gomes is now one such player and we traded him for fucking ismael rogers because , hell, yo can never have enough shitty pitching

    Don’t give me that shit about lawrie being one because he was acquired for home grown marcum .

    Shouldn’t be this hard to produce a major league average position player. Not talking about a superstar here .

    • The A’s don’t have any position players on the roster that have developed in their system. Don’t give me shit about Donaldson either because he was traded for home grown Rich Harden.

      The Jays draft pitcher heavy, not a bad strategy. Pitchers provide a tonne of value which can be used to acquire position players a la Reyes.

    • The track record is bad, yes, but the organization changed considerably between Ricciardi and AA, as did the drafting philosophy. AA’s first draft was in 2010 and was focussed largely on high-end high school players, and mostly pitchers. Those guys from the first draft are now 21 or 22. 80% of the players AA has drafted and developed are even younger than that, and you don’t see a lot of big league regulars at that age. Add in the fact that they’ve focussed so heavily on pitching and, yes, there aren’t a lot of position player prospects in the high minors.

      So you’re right in one sense, but acting like it’s some obvious massive failure of development the way too many people do is missing too much of the story to be taken seriously.

      And frankly, it’s sort of a self-perpetuating thing a bit, too. They do seem to do better with pitchers, so maybe they’re more inclined to draft pitchers, too. They should be, shouldn’t they? While working to do better on the position player front at the same time, obviously.

    • Counterpoint: The article is written by Bowden, who’s generally full of shit.

      • Did you mean “generally” or “usually”? Nonetheless, everybody has to be right sometime.

        Honestly, I think if David Price gets traded within the division, it will be to Baltimore. But I now wonder if Tampa thinks they could overtake Baltimore in the second half?

        • I enjoy how people point to Tampa as some team that could get hot and make a run of things. Why Tampa now? Because they’re playing well at this moment? They had a run of 10-20 from mid-May to Mid-June. Lots of injuries. Sound Familiar?

          • *slow clap*

            • yeesss

              Xtly why in reverse no matter what they did for 1 month they have gone to the norm everyone else who does not acknowledge this full of sheeeeet!!!!
              Why cause Cletus is going to start to hit lefties ? same with Lind? even better Lind’s back will hold up and he’ll play 150… morrow will start 30+ Gose will figure it out… If anything our starters are slightly over achieving but does look promising .. And the MOST obvious is our Putz gm getting …
              1. 2nd bm
              2. 4th outfielder exp bats R
              3. bench depth 3 months now

              without using the waiver wire

              I won’t discuss getting a starter

              wish they win despite the light at the end of the tunnel being a train of ineptitude of ROGERS management

            • 162 games is the full sample not a month makes the season…

              Xtly why in reverse no matter what they did for May was awesome but they have regressed to the norm everyone else who does not acknowledge this is in denial or is a sportsnet wank..

              Why cause Cletus is going to start to hit lefties, same with Lind? even better Lind’s back will hold up and he’ll play 150… morrow will start 30+ Gose will figure it out… If anything our starters are slightly over achieving but does look promising .. And the MOST obvious is our Putz gm getting …
              1. 2nd bm
              2. 4th outfielder exp bats R
              3. bench depth 3 months now

              WITHOUT using the waiver wire

              I won’t discuss getting a starter

              wish they win despite the light at the end of the tunnel being a train of ineptitude of ROGERS management

          • I generally agree with you, but f I had to play devil’s advocate it would be because both the players and management of the Tampa Bay Rays generally have a healthy track record of said accomplishments.

            • But, of course, that’s nonsense.

            • In my experience…whenever someone says they are going to play devil’s advocate, get ready, because they are about to be an asshole.

            • Good call. Since 2008 Madden,Friedman and Company have had a record of going to the playoffs and on one occasion actually made it to a world series. Unfortunately this hasn’t happened in TO since 93. That is a long time. They are the only team in the AL East who hasn’t made it to the playoffs in that 21 year span. Fans are frustrated beyond belief and would like to finally get a playoff berth of any type. Especially now that the 2nd wild card widens the chances for making the playoffs.

              • The fact that it hasn’t happened here before doesn’t mean anything with respect to this year, though. This is a different club than those other 21.

          • @allisauce I don’t think it’s an unreasonable suggestion that if Tampa *thinks* they could make a run for the postseason that they wouldn’t trade Price.

            I wasn’t saying I necessarily thought they would, but if their management *thinks* they have a shot Price might not go anywhere.

  38. Hoped for LIneup from Bluebird Banter for tonight’s game

    Jose Reyes SS
    Darin Mastroianni DH
    Jose Bautista 1B
    Melky Cabrera LF
    Nolan Reimold RF
    Colby Rasmus CF
    Steve Tolleson 2B
    Juan Francisco 3B
    Josh Thole C

    That is seriously sad.

  39. Could be worse. We could be Brazil supporters.

    • I just saw Stoeten tweet “WWHAAAAT?” and immediately went to MLBTR. The first story is that Brad Glenn was outrighted to AAA. I sat in confusion for a couple minutes.
      That is how disconnected I am from the World Cup. And that is also how unmotivated I am to work.

  40. I read that Roberto Osuna was throwing 95-97 in his Bullpens this week.
    Throws his first game since surgery tonight.

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