dailyduce2-595

I tell ya, I haven’t seen this many ants since Cincy in ’84.

It is, of course, an off-day for the Jays, with a trip to Chicago and a reunion with Edwin Encarnacion upcoming. That means a roster move, too — and could spell the end of Juan Francisco. But so then you make Danny Valencia your starting third baseman against right-handers? I don’t know about that. Maybe? Francisco has been so awful lately (and brings so little with the glove) that it’s almost the better move, but don’t be shocked if the fact that Anthony Gose has options left makes him the odd man out either. We probably won’t hear about that until tomorrow, or later tonight at the earliest. In the meantime, here are some links…

“When the Jays needed a huge performance from starting pitcher R.A. Dickey, he allowed a two-run, two-out home to DH Kendrys Morales,” writes Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star. “Dickey overall did not pitch poorly, but once again, as has been the case with all of the Jays starters, he did not pitch well enough to win.” I mean, those lines are maybe not the essence of the article as a whole, but come the fuck on.

Griff did, however, have some nice words to say about the great travelling crowd of fans that once again greeted the Jays at Safeco Field.

Meanwhile, at Sportsnet, Arden Zwelling wraps up a big series that sure looks like a blow to the Jays’ playoff chances. While the Tao of Stieb tries to remind us of what Faith No More roadies looked like. And also that “even when things were good for this franchise, they were nerve-wracking and tense and often profoundly disappointing,” and that more delight and agony are sure to be in store over the next two months (assuming the Jays ever actually score a fucking run again).

Oh, but be sure to pause the autoplay video at the top of that Tao piece before you start reading, otherwise you’ll see one “getting poured out” for the Jays season (which is apparently over?) by Six Seixeiro… because he is a garbage clown. Hey, and speaking of Sid, him and I are just two of the guests who’ll be appearing at the next edition of Pitch Talks, which will be taking place a week from today — Thursday, August 21st —  along with Stacey May Fowles, Jenn Smith, Erin Valois, Shi Davidi, and Jeremy Taggart. Get your tickets here – use the promo code DJF for $5 off! Cool-ass poster here.

Hey, and two days earlier, come watch the Jays take on the Brewers at 8:10 PM over at Opera Bob’s! It’s an old fashioned DJF Drink-Up! (That’s Tuesday, August 19th, for those of you counting — and Opera Bob’s is at Dundas and Ossington here in Toronto, for those who haven’t been).

Anywho… hey, here’s a team whose playoff chances I don’t mind worrying about nearly as much as I do the Jays’: the Detroit Tigers. Michael Bauman of Grantland writes that it’s time for Tigers fans to worry. For Jays fans, though, the piece is worth noting because of how it illustrates just how quickly the Tigers’ fortunes turned around (*COUGH*) and how damaging it may have been that they over-extended themselves at the trade deadline and with big contracts, only now to find themselves in a position where they must fight to be in a play-in game (*COUGH, COUGH*)

Elsewhere at Grantland, Ben Lindbergh gives us The Managerial Meddling Index, in which he measures the in-game activity of managers, and finds — unsurprisingly, given all the platoons he’s had to run — that John Gibbons has meddled more than any manager in the majors so far this year.

FanGROFs Alert: I linked it in yesterday’s Game Threat, but definitely do check out Drew’s appearance on the FanGraphs podcast from this week — especially as he and Carson Cistulli spend a good deal of time talking about the DJF and Getting Blanked podcasts (the former of which, I should make clear, will definitely rise again — it just might be a little while) — and his latest FanGROFs piece, in which he looks at the importance of “the good miss.”

Elsewhere at FanGraphs, Dave Cameron looks at the Baltimore Orioles, and the idea of accepting random variance.

A couple pieces from over at the Toronto Sun, as Bob Elliott looks at prospect Mitch Nay, and also interviews Munenori Kawasaki.

I’ve been pushing this lately in the Game Threat, so I might as well do it here too: since Facebook changed its algorithms with respect to sharing, it’s really become a much more powerful social media tool, and so it’s probably in your best interest to just go right ahead and like DJF on Facebook. That way you can get everything that’s posted here injected straight into your feed-veins. Do it.

Lastly, Kendall Graveman continues to be something of a groundball machine, and at Blue Jays Plus we can see in one handy GIF all eleven groundball outs he induced last night for the Buffalo Bisons. Impressive stuff. I wrote about Graveman last week, in case you missed it, trying to make sense of his success, his rapid ascent, and his status as a “real” prospect.

Comments (234)

  1. random variance? what a joke. What difference does it make why you think they’re winning. The fact is they’re winning and that’s all that matters except for the fangraph geeks who have to explain why their models never work.

    • maybe read the article before spouting your garbage.

      They actualy explain that the orioles having this ridiculous run at the standing is within the model. Just well beyond the bell curve. So an outlier of a season it still is.

      EXPLAINED.

      • The presence or absence of a normal curve in a large sample has zero bearing on whether the outliers have a causal factor. Coin flips follow a normal curve, but so does human height, which isn’t exactly random on the individual level. While you are correct that you can’t infer incorrectness of underlying assumptions due to the presence of outliers, you also cannot infer that because the outliers follow a normal distribution, that said outliers are due to random variation.

        • Coin flips assuredly do not “follow a normal curve.” If you flip a coin a positive number of times, it is impossible, not merely extremely unlikely, for the coin to come up heads a negative number of times. You get a binomial distribution instead. (Yes, you can approximate that with a normal curve and yes, it fits well if you do lots of flips, but that’s a very different thing.)

    • ‘NEVER’ they’re probably working for about 28 teams right now. I bet the models had Houston as the worst team.
      I guess you should try considering the concept of ‘outliers’

    • I can’t bring myself to read Griffens article.

      What an asinine statement that Dickey didn’t pitch good enough to win. A perfect game wasn’t good enough to win jackass

      • Amen, brother. That statement is just plain factually wrong. Was he on autotype when that leaked off his keyboard? That said, the “who’s to blame” crowd ought to enjoy knee-jerk reacting to and repeating it (and, most importantly, linking to/tweeting TO Star articles).

        • There is a weird Anti-Dickey sentiment coming out of Griffin during the game via Twitter. I suspect someone doesn’t give interviews as readily as someone else would like.

          It’s clear the loss can be pinned on the offense. They left a village on base. Another pitcher giving up 2 runs in the first and shutting it down the rest of the start would just be called unlucky. But Dickey has to throw a perfect game every time or people shit on him.

    • Agree with the article that winning a lot of 1 run games is not a repeatable skill and the fact that they’ve managed to do it a lot lately has no bearing on them being able to.continue to do it.

      The shitty thing for us tho is that they HAVE done it a lot up to this point, and their record reflects that. And while it’s fair to expect reversion to the mean, even if that happens now, it’s probably too late to significantly affect the standings.

      What we really need is not only mean reversion but random variance to the downside within the std deviance.

      A nice, solid 8 game losing streak would hit the spot.

      • All by one run! THAT’LL team them to be an outlier!

      • Winning or losing a game by one run is not a random variable. If that is conceded it is virtually the same as saying winning or losing period is a random variable

        • You probably remember 2012 when the orioles made the playoffs and how we were all talking about their improbable run of winning in 1 run ballgames. The fact is the orioles have a really good defence and a better than average bullpen. This leads to more wins in close games. Don’t expect them to suddenly drop of a cliff due to “regression”

    • Why so angry, big guy? Eh? Who hurt you?

    • “What difference does it make why you think they’re winning?” You seem sharp enough to know the answer to this yourself. Maybe cut the antagonistic bullshit and contribute some substance.

      • you mean like you shithead? It’s called a rhetorical questions but that’s above your peabrain level. oh wait banned me again fat pig? how do I keep posting then?

        • I looked at your comment history and noticed that you’re human garbage, so fuck you, suggestion rescinded.

          And apologies to acutal intelligent people for calling you sharp, especially if this is your attempt at an answer. Sure, you intended it as a rhetorical question because it’s easier to be an asshole that way, but it has a very real answer that you’re attempting to sidestep: baseball fans want to know why baseball teams win baseball games. You can be a little pisspants all you want about the conclusions people interested in sabermetrics come to, but your sad little dismissive blathering doesn’t make asking those questions invalid. Maybe if you weren’t such a pile of shit people would care what you thought, too. Ever considered it? No? Transparent jealous rage it is then, I guess.

          Not sure who you’re trying to make look like an idiot with the fat stuff, by the way, but if it’s me, I hate to tell you, but you’re yet again failing at life on that front, too.

          Alright then? See you the next time I ban you for being a worthless shitstain.

          Thanks,
          S.

          • I’d be happy to play nice if you’d do the same, but every time I see “awaiting moderation” I have to treat you like a child. I can debate the issues but you refuse to, instead banning people. try it sometime.

            • Fuck you you would. Besides, you’re not banned for whatever sad troll ideas you pretend you’ve tried to engage anybody in, you’re banned because you’re human fucking garbage. Adios.

              • But you can’t actually ban me remember? You’ve already tried for 5 years and I’m still here. Your foolish banning is just an annoyance until I change my username until you figure it out that it’s me again. What are you going to do ban me from opera bob’s too?

                • An annoyance… in your pursuit of… wasting your time being a piece of shit in the comments section of a baseball blog you yourself say is irrelevant? For FIVE YEARS.

                  One, somebody’s obviously lying about how important he thinks this space is. Two, ever thought about what that fucking pathetic record of admitted wasted time says about you? Because please man, fucking try. It’s saaaaaaaaad.

                  • I’m serious. Get a better hobby. Get laid. Get help if you need it. But shit, don’t keep doing this — not for my sake, for yours.

                  • Haha. You seriously are a fucking idiot.

                    So if someone posts here for 5 years they’re a loser? This is your fucking blog you tool. The only reason they pay you is because people like me come here to discuss baseball. If any other business had a customer for 5 years, they would appreciate them, not try to belitle them.

                    And get laid? Seriously? This coming from a disgustingly overweight pig that looks like he needs to wash his shirt once in a while?

                    I normally like to keep Internet relatively anonymous, but look me.up on Facebook. My name is [Redacted]. Go thru the pics even.

                    One of us is a 29 y/o athlete, who takes care of his body, former infantry soldier in the 2nd Battalion Royal Canadian Regiment and is now a deep sea diver. The other is a fat, piece of shit hipster who disrespects his customers just as much as he does his body. One of us is attractive to membwrs of the opposite sex and the other would likely repulse them.

                    Now tell me, between the two of us, which one of us do you think needs to get laid more?

                    I won’t be posting here again,.

                    • No, Rob. Someone is a loser if they have spent the last five years coming here, being a troll, getting banned, finding a way to get around the ban, and then doing it all over again. You misunderstood what was being discussed, which is so hilariously you, buddy.

                      We all need to wash our shirts once in a while, Rob. And believe it or not, I do pretty OK — with that and the other stuff.

                      I’ve removed your name from your comment, as I’m sure when you calm down you’ll appreciate the courtesy.

                      Wasn’t talking to you at all in the comment you’re responding to here, but… Hooookay. Thanks for trying. Just to be clear, though, I have nothing at all against my customers/readers. I just think that if someone is going to posture like an asshole who knows what he’s talking about, he should probably know what he’s talking about. It’s not difficult to leave open the possibility that one may be wrong — and it’s helpful when one so often is.

                      l8r, g8r.

                    • @RobAsshat: If what you wrote about yourself gets you through the day, all the more power to you.

                    • Ahhhh. So seeing on mobile device that the fucking comments are all out of sequence. That was not meant at you, Rob. Check the web for the proper sequence.

                    • lol. Wow.

                      I think somebody takes internet blogs a bit too seriously…

                  • I never said this place was important. I said I come here for the comedy of it all. You are the one that someone obsesses over every comment and feels the need to ban people in some vain attempt to show your saddam hussein power. In case you forgot, this is a COMMENT section and you are supposed to comment on baseball. For some reason you feel that my comments are so important that you must obsess over them. why is that? who is the one wasting time again reading every comment, scouring ip addresses?

                    • Yeah… well… it’s my job. But actually I never wanted it to be this way, either — the blog had zero comment moderation for years, and I preferred it that way. Wanted it to be a total free-for-all. Then some shitheads started ruining it for everybody else, making the comment section unusable, sitting there for hours, many times, copy-pasting the same comments over and over and over and over so that anybody else’s conversation became lost in the morass. So I had to find a way to get them (or him) out of the sandbox, and when there became one, that became the rule: nobody whose objective is to ruin it for everybody else allowed to play. Eventually that expanded to people over-the-top talking shit at me — because fuck them, my sandbox my rules (and also that was an aspect of the original troll(s) too) — and so here we are.

                      It’s not about you. It’s about shitheads making shit shitty. People alert me when trolls show up. Usually I can see from the latest 20 or 30 posts if there’s some shit going on, and it’s not difficult to find the offending dickhead and ban him. Certainly not about pouring over comments or IPs. That means sometimes you don’t get banned for a couple of days. Congratulations! But I’ll find it eventually and take care of it. No big deal. No nuisance in my life.

                      And it’s not about ideas, either. Our friend RobA here has said some of the most aggressively wrong shit I’ve ever seen on here and it didn’t get him banned. A comment like the one above might, but sounds like he’s had his fill of me pointing to his ridiculousness anyway.

                      I’ve banned people who intentionally post dumb shit just to bait people — and have probably unintentionally banned people who are earnest and not malicious and just kinda dumb, unfortunately — but that’s not the aim. The commenters themselves will police the ideas. I police the intent, I guess. Do I overstep my bounds sometimes? Sure. Undoubtedly. And I wish I didn’t. I try my best, though, to keep the good and excise the bad. It’s better than doing too little or doing nothing — though I’d much prefer to do nothing.

                      We’ll switch to a better commments system soon (no, really!) and hopefully it will help. I’ll crowdsource some ideas on all that, too.

                    • You banned me once but that’s ok. I didn’t deserve it and I forgive you.

          • do you actually think I care what you or the other 5 people on this irrelevant blog think? I just come here for fun, to mock the stupidity of people who think they’re smart. Sometimes I try to education the cavedwellers like you but it never works. I can actually explain why the fangraphs article is a complete joke but then you’d delete it right?

            • Dave from Goodmans, right?

              Either way, would you fucking listen to yourself! Not really trying hard to disprove my suggestion that you’re a piece of shit, eh?

            • Maybe you should education yourself sometimes

          • ok banned/unbanned hard to keep track

            “baseball fans want to know why baseball teams win baseball games.”

            except the fangraphs article did nothing to explain that other than say just dumb luck.
            His normal distrubtion explanation is invalid because there is no fixed probablity to winning. He also can’t compare 1 team to the next because teams are not static from 1 year to the next. Players change. This year the orioles lost jim johnson. The only constant is the name “orioles”. Sometimes teams have good years and they overshoot what you’d expect. There no need to minimize what the orioles have done by calling it noise.

            Dave cameron blanketly assumes that his model is 100% correct and that anything that doesn’t fit is random variance. Any statistician will tell you that models don’t account for 100% of the data. That’s why you see polls say “only accurate 95% of the time”. Sometimes models are wrong and can’t explain some data points. The 2009 financial crisis fed chairman greenspan said his models were wrong even though he had 100 years of data.

            Saying the orioles are winning by random noise is basically saying all teams are the same and play the exact same way with the same talent level. They win a lot of close games because they have a strong pitching staff, solid bullpen, play elite defense, and maybe showalter plays for 1 run because he knows his bullpen can hold that lead, while gibbons has to play for the big inning.

            Sooner or later the orioles will lose those close games but it’s not because of random variance, it’s because players change, players regress, injuries happen. It’s complete ignorance for someone to write an article dismissing what the orioles have done by pigeon holing them into a model that can’t explain every situation.

            • Solid points, though I’d have to go back to read Cameron’s post again (or do more than just skim it, at least) before I can agree with the stuff about him blanketly assuming his model is 100% correct and some of these other things. Regardless, his kind of work needs this kind of pushback, for sure, and you definitely do make a lot of sense here.

              Still banned, tho.

            • Take that nerds!
              Good response afdg.

            • Wow, I’ve developed quite the cult following on this blog.

        • I’d miss ya, afdg, if you were gone. Such wit, such elegance. Shame, really: ’tis wasted on us.

          • This is a fake afdg.

            • what a cacophony of shitslinging that was

              back to you bob

              • Group hug? Anybody? No?

                • I’m always up for a group tug.

                  • This is the only place I read comments, and I mean anywhere, because Stoeten gets rid of the idiots and most of the people who red this blog are pretty smart. Seriously, try another sports site, or ANY article, and just attempting to read the comments lowers your IQ. It’s like brain Drano. I don’t comment very often, but I appreciate the ones who do, and that only works if Stoeten (or whoever) bans the trolls and everyone else nails the morons. My two cents.

            • It is my respectful submission that I was also improperly banned. Long live the Garfoose.

  2. I was not aware of the promo code! Damn it!

  3. The inclusion of Sid really flies in the face of the credibility of Pitch Talks…..

    • “Star” power, I’m guessing.

      Altho I like Sid. A baseball expert he is not, however.

      • I’d lump Grange into a similar category, not a full on baseball guy but he was great at the last Pitch. Variety works.

        • I honestly don’t mind listening/watching Tim and Sid. At least find them entertaining, and sometimes they have some alright guests. Plus, they talk a wide range of sports.

    • Sid “jumped the shark” awhile ago.

  4. Kendall…GRAVEMAAAAAAAAAAN!

  5. Look back at Griff’s tweets last night. He decided it was all RA’s fault before even the HR. 2 earned runs on the road? Sign me up x 81

  6. Dickey now getting unjustly trashed not only by blow hard fans but also by respected main stream media? He has been a solid contributor to the team yet seems to be the one blamed even when the team doesn’t score. Griffen has really gone off the rails this year with some of his articles IMO

    • Gotta get those clicks man.

      But seriously, if you aren’t happy with a sub-4 ERA from Dickey who’s on a reasonable contract your expectations were WAY out of line.

  7. Sometimes when i listen to Sid Seixeiro i want to shove my head up his ass just to see why he likes it in there so much.

    tl;dr Sid is a fool

  8. Seixiero is a “garbage clown”? How perfectly, tersely, true! If he makes above the minimum wage, it’s a fucking scandal.

    • I worked, tangentially, at least, with Sid a long time. He’s good people. I don’t agree with a lot of his baseball opinions, but he’s not exactly trying to be agreed with, either.

      • I find Sid entertaining, but isn’t what you describe actually the worst kind of garbage clown? The type that actually knows they are spewing shit, but does it anyway just to play a role or get a reaction?
        I mean, him and Wilner could have been Abbott and Costello on the radio today, what they were doing was so scripted. Playing roles like a sitcom couple. More Sid than Mike, but still….
        If he has been put on the Pitch panel just to be that foil, it really is a waste of time.

  9. All you can drink PBR tallboys on me next time if you call Sid Sixerio a “fuckin garbage clown” at Pitch Talks, on-air, to his face

  10. Faith No More were awesome.

    And 2 new songs were performed recently in London – new album perhaps?

    rollingstone.com/music/videos/faith-no-more-debut-two-new-songs-at-british-summer-time-festival-20140705

    (The songs sounds like crap in these live versions – hopefully studio versions are forthcoming)

  11. LLWS under way today…

    Wish I was that good, damnit.

  12. So does the new commish mean anything for the Jays?

    • I dunno maybe Beeston works for him next hear

    • I guess the Jays were opposed initially then one of 8 teams flipped their vote and the other 7 conceded and followed suit.

      “As Bob Nightengale of USA Today wrote yesterday, Manfred supporters will point to his status as head of labor negotiations and the 19 years of peace between MLB and the MLBPA. He also helped to implement baseball’s current drug testing system and headed last year’s Biogenesis investigation. His detractors, Nightengale notes, will point to the fact that baseball is the only sport without a salary cap. They also credit the drug testing agreement to the MLBPA for changing its stance and criticize Manfred for allowing all but $2 billion of the Dodgers’ $8.35 billion TV deal to be protected from revenue sharing.” -MLBTR

      Meh, I haven’t a clue

      • I belive Manfred is supposed to be “small market friendly” while the other guy was the choice of the big market teams.

        Manfred is the proletariat. the other guy is the Bourgeois.

        • Something hilariously wrong written by RobA. Colour me shocked!

          • That’s kind of the problem a lot of people have with you.

            I got the names mixed up, WERNER is the small market team choice and MANFRED the big market team choice.

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/08/12/mlb-commissioner-chaos-bud-selig-owners-meetings/13982501/

            Hardly “hilariously wrong” more like a pretty reasonable mistake, especially considering I prefaced my comment with “I believe”.

            And yet, you and your ridiculous band of fools couldn’t wait to jump all over it. Why could you not just correct it, if you knew better?

            you just seem like a bitter old man, rubbing your hands together with glee bathed in the dull glow of your computer screen at the thought of pointing out how “ridiculously wrong” I was.

            this coming from the same clown that said as recently as 2 days ago that it was “moronic” to wish AA had made the Francisco/Headley trade.

            Seriously, you bring nothing to the table.

            • Werner was the choice of the Jays, Red Sox and Angels. Small market teams? No, meaning the vote breakdown is far too complex for the laughable parallel you tried to draw, which is precisely why I laughed at it.

              Again: completely moronic to wish that the Jays had made the Headley-Francisco trade at the time. Completely. Keep doubling down on this stupidity, though, if you must. And keep pretending I couldn’t look at your comment history and find thirty or forty of the dumbest statements imaginable about this team (and that, in all honesty, is being generous).

              Or how about this: maybe just think for a fucking second before you write something dumb as you posture like an expert. It’s OK if you can’t come up with the perfect way to shoehorn the new MLB commissioner and his opponent in the vote into some nonsense proletariate/bourgeoise dynamic. Nobody is marking off points in their book for shit like this. Nobody cares. It is counterproductive to discussion when people have to stop and walk you back through why whatever nonsense point of view you just spouted as though it was the gospel is hilariously wrongheaded. So just quit it!

            • Yeah, you bring nothing to the table. EXCEPT FOR THE FUCKING TABLE.

        • If he’s small market wouldn’t he push for a salary cap?

        • Stahp

      • The fucking owners want a salary cap for the players

        They want more revenue sharing money from the dodgers to be split amongst the teams.

        Yet they want capitalism for themselves.

        Socialism for YOU , capitalism for US

    • I just want the next commissioner to speed up the fucking games. Games taking 3+ hours should be an anomaly more than a norm.

      Every game should be more like the Buehrle/Janssen show.

  13. I’m in the send down Juan Francisco camp. I don’t think he’s really anything, and he’s just been so bad, I’d rather have Valencia starting everyday.

    I think keeping Gose brings more value to the team, than hoping Francisco gets hot again.

    Here’s some Big Juan arbitrary end points:

    Since the AS break .177/.239/.263
    Since June 3 .181/.238/.374

    • Valencia in his career vs Righties has hit .227/.267/.352

      • He has a tendency to swing at pitches that bounce 5 feet in front of the plate vs righties.

        Fact is we don’t have a good option at third unless we put EE back there , lind at first everyday, and trade for a DH.

    • If “send down”=”cut,” then fair enough.

      I wouldn’t lose my shit if it’s Francisco, but I’d be okay with Gose. It’s only two weeks till rosters expand anyway.

      • Yes cut. I’d be fine with losing him.

        It’s true about the two weeks, but only 40 games left. You’re trying to make the playoffs, not a time for marginal asset management.

        • Actually pretty much everyone felt the same about “E5″.
          Then he went and worked with Robbie Cano’s coach in the offseason
          (Mercedes?) and low and behold became a decent hitter.
          Before they DFA the kid, it could be useful to give him a try with the same guy or maybe someone else. According to everyone, all he needs to do is hit the curveball.

          • Edwin was more of a polished hitter than Juan is now.

            Even if they keep him around, do they have room for him next year? Assuming you have Lind/EE/Valencia at 1B/DH, and Lawrie at third. Unless you want to move Lawrie to second and play Juan everyday at third?

    • As Lawrie showed, a return from the disabled list can be short.

      Given that we are just over 2 weeks from expanded rosters, it has to be Gose that gets demoted as unfair as it may be.

      Francisco is insurance until the end of the season in case someone else gets injured or re-injured even though he likely deserves to be the one who goes.

    • Can you even send Juan down, or does he need to be DFA’d?

  14. Reading through the comments and what a shit storm. Jay’s are still the focus here right?

  15. Also, for those of you that have Shaw, check out TSN on your guide… it’s Monday Night Football! I checked the calendar several times and be fucked if it isn’t Thursday in my world. Oh yeah, Go Jays

  16. can someone explain to me where this Francisco for Headley madness started?

    it can’t possibly be true

    • Something something, sports media + popular media + sports analyst , something something

    • RobA has argued LOUD (average 15 lines per comment) and LONG (30 – 50 times) over the past 3 weeks as if he KNOWS there was a trade Francisco for Headley turned down by the Jays, which PROVES that AA (who he thinks is a poor GM) is stupid and incompetent for not making. What none of us knows is what else may or may not have been included in that prospective trade …. sooooo ????

      • MLBTR was saying Frisco + 2 “non-big time” prospects, and SD was willing to eat all of his remaining salary

        • That was reported on a few sites around the deadline. Makes sense, as Solarte and Francisco are relatively comparable.

  17. This is why I this is the first site I come to each day, beauties like this:

    “by Six Seixeiro… because he is a garbage clown. Hey, and speaking of Sid, him and I are just two of the guests who’ll be appearing at the next edition of Pitch Talks”

    Please, please, please call him a garbage clown while on stage.

    I kid, I kid. I do find Sid funny….sometimes.

    • I dont mind Sid but I do find that he comes off as trying too hard to be a loud “I’ve had enough of ____ or listen this is my opinion on this” kind of radio personality . . . trying to think of a better way of putting it, not quite a Don Cherry, but similar in matter of factness attitude or making people aware he’s pissed off about something

      He seems like a nice enough guy in general though and I understand his brand is built on a certain snarky, pop-culture infused, template

      • I actually find Sid great to listen to, even if I disagree with a lot of his opinions (cutting parmesan cheese? Come on Sid…). That said, I have felt a few times that his rigged figure skating rant got too much play and he can come across like he’s trying to recreate it sometimes with certain rants that dont feel natural.

    • Sid hung up on me once. He was saying dumb shit (as usual) about the Jays, so I brought the heat and ended up calling him a braying donkey.

    • I will try to make it out to Pitch Talks as I am volunteering to be the one to call Sid a garbage clown.

  18. RobA is the same as oriolestroll?

    • Don’t think so.
      As RobA mentioned it himself, he’s commented for years without incident. Then he and Stoeten disagreed a bit. And it went off from there on both sides.Stoeten’s Angels ( yes, I’m gonna trademark that) took up the cause,it became personal and the rest is history.
      RobA has made some good points. Stoeten’s made some good counterpoints.
      Now the original debate has long passed and evolved into a pissing contest.
      If they just resolved in the normal way by measuring dicks, all would be peaceful in DJF land and we could move on and dicuss the Jays current laments.
      Ummm,maybe it’d be more peaceful just to let them continue on and not discuss the Jays.

      • The Francisco discussion with RobA was unbelievably frustrating, but I don’t think it ever got personal between the two of us, even though we seemed to discuss it on every second post.

  19. Ah the good ole days of non-moderated DJF.Funniest shit I ever read.Best baseball conversations and debates
    Totally raw and uncensored.Gutteral and fucked up.
    But even I knew it was time to move on with the 30 pages of “delving into this nonsense”.
    The price of popularity.
    And just for old time sake,

    WARNINGThose easily offended stop reading now
    Fuck,motherfucker,cocksucker,cock,cunt.asshole,dickhead.
    Long live Drunk Jays Fans.( DJF)

  20. My facebook “friends” list was loaded with unemployed relatives who were driving me to drink even more than my usual excessive amount. I disabled my account last Sept. and it’s been great.
    I’ll have to stay out of the DJF loop I guess, because I’ll never go back to facebook.

  21. I’m thinking about attending my first Pitch Talks. I’ve never been to that event centre before either. Are there food and beverages available? If so, what sort?

  22. We have waited 21 years – What’s another year to wait?

  23. From RotoWorld:

    “Encarnacion had three hits — including a grand slam — over 12 at-bats during his rehab assignment. It’s worth noting that Triple-A Buffalo manager Gary Allenson said Thursday that Encarnacion was still “maybe not” 100 percent recovered from his quad injury, but the Jays apparently are willing to take a chance in order to get his bat back in the lineup.”

    Why am I suddenly so twitchy?

  24. @BVHJays: Anthopoulos made it sound like he’s still looking to deal prospects for big league help.

    • I will not be surprised at all if this happens.

      • I also wonder if there’s even a 1% chance they are making an offer to Castillo.

        • depends on what he’s asking

        • You can bet that after he signs with the Red Sux – it will come out that the Blue Jays’ bid was just under what it took. Its amazing that they always seem to bid just under what it takes

          • you can say that about alot of teams you know.

            • These are the players I really want the Jays to go in on…all it costs is money. No players are given up. Money that Rogers has accumulated by not having to compete in their field for decades. SPEND!

              Although I really should have let go by this point, I still find myself wondering how the Jays would look these days if ownership had ponied up for Yu Darvish. I think he would have earned that money back in eyeballs, tickets sold and merch easy.

              Of course, the international free agent rules need to change, because this process is crazy. That said, the amateur draft is mangled too. So many unintended consequences.

              • Yeah Darvish would have been dope. A whole lot of could have would have really.

              • I don’t really know what the scouting report is on this guy in terms of ceiling. But it seems the value is there in terms of speed, power and positional flexibility. Although they used that last phrase with Bonifacio in the past too.

                Just because the Red Sox are going hard doesn’t mean they’ll get him. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him end up in Seattle.

                But then again, maybe Phoenix freezes over and the FO feels like this is a good “baseball decision” with the right “value” that “makes the team better”.

  25. Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    Please happen

    Sanchez for Harper amirite
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=24432

  26. Sounds like Norris probably up in September. After everyone writing off system, Toronto now suddenly has wealth of talented young arms who are in majors now or right on the cusp. Hutchinson, Stroman, Sanchez and Norris now. Osuna, Tirado and maybe Castro a little later. Drabek maybe re-inventing himself. This is the reason that they don’t do deals for sketchy rental players at the deadline.

    • Pitcher and more pitchers, save for Pompey. Jays have to manage these arms right and turn them into long-term SS, 2B, 1B, and OF assets. I love the latest draft, but realize there’s lots of work and pitfalls to avoid in the next couple years.

  27. And I forgot Hoffman.

    • and Nolin.

      • new prospectingAgree one hundred percent. And this is why I choose to view this regime with optimism instead of negativity. Sure the 2 big trades didn’t work out as well as they could have, but at the time I was extremely sold. As to why I believe in the organization after the trades, one only has to look at how some of the former blue Jays prospects are turning out and realize that if they have the same kind of success with the new prospects, the future is going to be alright for quite a while.

    • Keep doing that for another year.

    • Sweet black bean tacos!

      One more growth spurt, and he’ll reach the big leagues at roughly the same size as Karl Malone.

    • I’m waiting for the pics of him racing cars through the streets of San Juan and drinking it up in an after hours club.

      All because he peeled 10 years off the birth certificate he submitted to the LLWS.

      Probably around the same time we find out Reyes is actually 45.

  28. Anybody got a TV tone?

  29. In related news that is related to nothing.
    Pillar extends his hitting streak to 21 games.

    • It’s related to “the Jays need hitting” and could at least toy with the idea that he might be able to hit a round ball with a round bat better than some that are continuing to flail away at this season.

      • Sept 1st

      • Stoeten seems concerned about his abilty to take a walk.
        It’s a crazy thought,but maybe he sees his BA as a quicker way to get noticed and back to the show.
        He may be thinking, walks are good but if they need a RH hitter, look no further.
        Don’t know what he’s thinking,of course but It wouldn’t surprise me.

        • I THINK that you might be giving even major league calibre players a bit too much credit in their ability to simply say “I should hit more” and then hit more.
          Baseball is just really hard.

          • Sorry IMW, I should clarify.
            In his zest to prove himself he may be hitting pitches outside the zone that he would normally take for balls an increase his walk total.
            I am just speculating and have absolutely no proof.
            Guesswork on my part.
            It seems that if he’s making that much contact then he has a decent eye thus he should be able to recognize balls off the plate.
            Dunno.

            FWIW. He’s also been stealing bases at a pretty good clip.

  30. Sarah, I wanna lick your ass.

  31. In non related news but something I’m curious about.

    Will Stoeten be signing autographs at Pitch Talks?
    If so, any idea what he’ll be charging for each one?
    Anything above $10 for pics and $15 for signing a 8 X 10 glossy is price gouging.
    IMHO.

  32. Um, conversation killer?
    It just got weird in here…

    • Happens from time to time.
      Gotta do something to kill time waiting for the announcement of who gets sent down or DFA’d.

  33. Had to screenshot some hilarious comments in this thread.

    RobA is a real treat, and he will be missed….

    Ok he won’t be missed but i laughed at some of his comments. The IMMA ARMY DUDE AND AN ATHELETE one will go down in KyleZ’s brain archives as an instant classic.

  34. “One of them is attractive to members of the opposite sex and the other would likely repulse them.”

    And with that, I think RobA has taken the analysis of the merits of Headley vs. Francisco a step too far…

    • Stoeten, if I can arrange it, can DJF host a screening of this film after an upcoming Opera Bob’s night?

  35. To trolls such as fake abdg,

    You are right that this a public forum and you are entitled to have crazy views. Nevertheless, it is certainly a manifestation of poor character and immaturity that you insist on undermining others’ (i.e., the majority’s) attempt at having a cuss-filled, rational dialogue. Ask yourself why you think you ought to pursue your infantile attempts at having fun by trying to stop others from engaging in the dialogue (or deliberately undermining the dialogue) they are trying to have. I don’t know any flourishing individual that insists on having fun by stopping others’ from having fun. it is usually symptomatic of psychological issues (e.g., insecurity as demonstrated by bullies in school, behavior showing a complete insensitivity to the cares and concerns of others as demonstrated by psychopaths and some autistic individuals).

  36. Gose down.

    i guess whatever. EE’s back lets not worry too much about bench positions.

    Only thing that scares me is that EE is a bit of a slow starter, we really dont have time for him to slump.

    Rasmus gettingt hot for 40 games would be nice as well.

    • Lets hope this entire team gets hot and pulls a May. I’m not asking for much, just a .700 winning percentage is all.

    • EE crushed in Buffalo, no reason to think he’s lost timing in Bigs. Also possible he’s been hitting balls for a while just couldn’t run because of his quad (or whatever).

  37. Stroman vs Noesi, then Buehrle vs Danks, Hutch vs Carroll.

    Noesi: 4.67 era this season, but 3.10 era in last 3 starts
    Danks: 9.22 ERA in five starts since July 20
    Carroll: coming off his worst start of the season; 4.81 on the season, but 6.00 era last 3 games.

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