eebautistasunset

So Gose goes so Francisco can sit on the bench while Valencia plays against a right-hander?

Actually, I can deal with that. It means that keeping Francisco is a matter of asset management more than actually wanting to play. Keeping him to see what they’ve got next year or if he can be moved in a deal, in exchange for two weeks without Gose? Ahhh, fine. Fine.

Anywho, at 40 games out it’s still early. Too early, at least, to say the Jays are fucked — and if you’re someone whose sphincter tightens any time someone tells you it’s still early, might I suggest to you that you’re a fucking garbage clown — and too early for there to be “must win” games.

That said, the Jays had better fucking win this game.

Scuttlebutt

EDWIN IS BACK!!!!!!!!!

Next game(s): Tomorrow, 7:10 PM ET @ Chicago (AL); Sunday, 2:10 PM ET @ Chicago (AL)

For those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with theScore app.

And now, the lineups… 

Toronto Blue Jays

SS Jose Reyes (S)
LF Melky Cabrera (S)
RF Jose Bautista (R)
DH Edwin Encarnacion (R)
1B Adam Lind (L)
DH Dioner Navarro (S)
CF Colby Rasmus (L)
3B Danny Valencia (R)
2B Munenori Kawasaki (L)

RHP Marcus Stroman

Chicago White Sox

LF Alejandro de Aza (L)
SS Alexei Ramirez (R)
1B Jose Abreu (R)
DH Adam Dunn (L)
RF Dayan Viciedo (R)
3B Conor Gillaspie (L)
C Tyler Flowers (R)
CF Jordan Danks (L)
2B Gordon Beckham (R)

RHP Hector Noesi

Comments (350)

  1. Yep, I will never get completely off the boat. I still feel they have a good core, and certainly a blow up is not in order here. I do think it is time to start putting ducks in a row for years beyond this one however. If Rogers ever does increase payroll, to even say 150m, coupled with some of the things I mentioned they can free up a lot of cash to better addres their issues. Right now, I have kinf of evolved into November mode debating signing and possibletrades. I guess come October, I’llm be cheering for the A’s although I do think they are fucked despite their pitching ads. They simply have little offence against against real good pitching after trading Cespedes and having Lowrie out.
    I think the LAA will win the west, and Oakland will be in the one game playoff in Oct

  2. Tampa Bay had an opening day payroll of $76.8m (Cots)
    Blue Jays had an opening day payroll of $137.2m

    The Tampa Bay model has been to draft pitchers with upside
    and move them when their reach the final year of arbitration.
    And, they have not been afraid to just let players walk.
    Price was a very high draft choice; most of the others were not.

    If the Blue Jays could build a young, cost controlled starting rotation
    along the lines of the Tampa Bay team, a budget of $140m should be
    more than enough to allow them to compete.

    We can see that this is probably AA’s plan.
    Stroman and Hutch have arrived.
    By 2016 Sanchez and Norris may have rotation spots
    while Hoffman is a college guy who could be there by ’16 or ’17.

    They may not all work out, but the early returns are encouraging.
    Plus, there are others like Nolan who may make the grade if
    some of the others crap out.

    They may soon be back to selling the sizzle,
    but it could be interesting.

    • Having a120 million dollar payroll is more than enough when it’s done organically in that you pay a la carte for each player you want and don’t take on shitty contracts just to make trades happen .

      Instead the jays are in a situation where they’re spending 40 million per year just for the honor of getting 120 games a year of Jose Reyes.

      That is not effective use of payroll in an environment where ability to pay is capped

      The jays have no need to be like Tampa bay and trade off players as their contracts near expiration . Not with their payroll

      They just need to not do stupid things like take on really really shitty contracts.

      And for those of you think Buehrles contact isn’t shitty , ask yourself if you could move it right now without including monetary or talent assets

      • thought you said you weren’t coming back deep sea diver?

        • That’s not me. I’ll still lurk once in a while. Haven’t posted since I said I wasn’t going too (except for this one) and I will continue not too.

          This isn’t a place for enjoyable discussion and debate. It’s a pit of sycophants who must tow the party line or else

          • It’s obvious it wasn’t you because it was coherent and had legitimate points which could be debated

      • King Felix is 28. He got $175m over 7 years
        Verlander is 31. He got $ 180m over 7 years
        Price is 28. He will get as much or more after next year.
        Lester is 30. Probably will be in the same range.

        How many of those contracts will work out?
        While there might not be a “need” to trade a guy as
        he approaches free agency, it makes good financial
        sense to trade him assets and move along to the
        next guy in the assembly line.

  3. “might I suggest to you that you’re a fucking garbage clown”…rinse, repeat

    The beard is hiding a team with many many holes that can’t keep up in yet another down year in the AL East, but how dare insinuate anything outside of a Blue Jay Care Bear stare!

    Stoets, you played sports in a league where everyone gets a nice trophy no matter how bad right? Bc this over-the-top ignorance is the opposite of how even you started here. Guess that access and proximity to the team does impact one’s view.

  4. If Joey wants out, (likely after the decision of Melky wanting to be back or not too – I don’t doubt Bautista was a driving force in him coming to Toronto 2 years back), may as well get what you can for EE and Reyes too.

    It’s pretty clear that those guys are pretty tight and took a lot of pride in setting the record last year for most Domincans starting a game in MLB history. If half of them move onto greener pastures because of the lack pf perception of which direction the ownership is pushing this team, its not inconceivable to think that the others still other contract, will not be all to pleased/motivated.

    If they can retain Melky (and I think they have to make some other moves to actually prove (not just say like they have this past offseason) they’re improving the team, then Bautista comes back for sure, and you’ll get the most from EE in a contract year etc.

    However, with the rug pulled out from under the team at the trade deadline, with promises unkept by AA/Beeston/ownership, looked at the team pysche since then…9-3 post all star break, 10 games under .500 since, so I think they’re on strike 2 with keeping Melky…

    • Eh aa is an average gm though I’m tired of his double speak
      Jays need a new gm who will actually do things to improve the team

      • And is he suppose to pay for these acquisitions out of his own pocket.Maybe we can start having 50-50 draws at Rodgers to help them raise money.

      • I don’t think the problem is AA. AA charted a course based on expectations set out by Nadir Mohammed. He had the rug pulled out from under him by Laurence and had to change tack mid-strategy. I suspect he could do a decent job one way or te other if he knew what he could expect in terms of overarching budget and philosophy from above.

        I don’t get the sense that AA relishes being a lying fuck like Isaiah Thomas does. I think he manages the message the best he can under the circumstances.

        • Nailed it GSMC.
          Interesting to follow the money.
          Raise the budget to 140 with a promise of a top up as needed.
          Team shits the bed for various reasons.
          AA states his goals for the offseason.
          Does nothing,everybody wonders why.
          hat is passed to try and get Santanna.
          Elliot and Stark get told that AA says he can’t take on extra payroll in a trade.
          Sid ( clown #2) calls Elliot and Stark liars.
          Attendance jumps,TV ratings soar during 19 inning game ( 3.5 mil? wow).
          Now Elliot reports that AA has been given 10 Mil if he needs it.
          Rogers shills can now look smug, sayin “I told you so”.

          Some stabilty would be nice.

          • Guy Laurence assumed the mantle officially in December 2013. It should surprise no one that AA’s marching orders changed from end of season 2013 and when Laurence took over. He identified the gaps the team needed to fill and was likely told to address it from within the system or without adding any new money.

            What happened this year – promises of money to make moves if the team was in contention – is why frustrates me. Don’t make the promise if there is no intention to keep it. Key players now feel betrayed by Rogers or AA or both. Nothing saps motivation more than working for a shitty boss that lies to you. Stoeten may disagree with me on this last point, but the players aren’t robots.

    • @Dave.

      If the Dominicans decide they want out of Toronto this will be devastating to the Jays.

  5. 39 games left
    For the jays to have a chance for the 2nd WC they need to go 23-16 at minimum (86 wins)
    Not impossible but jays need to have a hot streak like after the all star break so they can enter the last 3 weeks with 75 wins or so

  6. I think there’s too many people jumping to defend AA. It’s not his GM skills that people are questioning it’s his ability and commitment to get things done to win. AA has gone on record MULTIPLE times to say that he’s never asked Rogers for money without getting it. He’s claimed that trades and signings just haven’t made sense for him to pull the trigger. If he’s lying and Rogers has pulled the carpet from under him, then why is he protecting their image? If he’s a puppet with zero grit/balls then why is everybody jumping to defend him? He should be held accountable in the end for his own actions and words…how else are we to judge him? If he’s simply carrying out a plan like a puppet for his Rogers bosses then what use is he, really, to the team? I’m not arguing that he needs to be replaced, but I am questioning why everybody jumps to defend a guy who by his own admission has never asked ownership for money.

    • If Rogers/Laurence has made it clear he is not to add to the payroll, what’s the point in asking?

      I’m not an AA apologist, but he’s not working in a vacuum. I’m pretty sure he’s committed to winning, but there are a lot of other moving parts that have to fit together to make the plan work.

      • Agree. Plus do you really think in your wildest dreams whoever replaces him (if he’s replaced) will be MORE forthcoming? Not only is he doing exactly what 99% of all GMs do, the statement* is constructed precisely for people with half a brain to figure out.

        • The Jays need to go on a serious run to save themselves and AA but it looks like a dollar short and a day late to me.
          They should’ve signed Cano.

        • The point isn’t whether or not he’s being truthful in his comments regarding Rogers or whether or not fans have half a brain to decipher his statements as lies. The point is that as a GM, even with his hands tied, there are ways of creating a successful, playoff bound team that do not include signing free agents or taking on high salaried players. See Friedman, Andrew and Epstein, Theo. You work with what you have instead of going for it and hoping your parent company shows up with money. Even if AA was working with promises of money that were then withdrawn, it’s on him to find a way to cope with that. Trade Bautista, Encarnacion, Janssen, others who can bring back high end prospects or major leaguers with more control for a longer run. I think AA is shrugging his shoulders and playing cold shoulder with Rogers. I don’t know about you, Sagan, but half my brain tells me I shouldn’t be supporting a team/business that doesn’t do a good enough job to win. Then again, I’m an invested fan dolling out 7k on season’s tickets. So forgive me for calling out AA apologists.

          • @John
            You are forgiven.
            AA has a budget of 137 mm to work with and that’s not counting his
            annual draft and scouting. That puts him in the top 10 organizations at least.
            He has no need to lie. The “Statement” we’re talking about is typical
            managerial BS, and they all do it. I think that he probably wishes he had a little
            more $$ for more flexibility,but you very rarely see any GM badmouth or
            give a cold shoulder to his ownership. Balls or not, grit or not,
            that’s just bad for everyone concerned, particularly AA.

            AA has promised from the very start that he would rebuild the farm and
            create a core of young controllable players. He has had 5 good drafts
            and the results are only now coming to the Major League.
            Once the Daniel Norris’s Aaron Sanchez’s and Marcus Stroman’s et al
            are circulating, he’ll be able, like the Tampa Rays, to better concentrate
            on the Major League product. He’ll be able to make transactions like the ones
            the Rays made for James Shields and David Price and still stay well within
            the budget. But this past deadline (and for that matter offseason), he was faced
            with trading people like Norris Sanchez Stroman and Pompey, just so the Jays
            could compete in 2014. That wasn’t his original intention, and he said no, even
            though a pitcher like Jeff Samardzija would’ve been a huge plus for his team.
            Trading EE and Bautista and Janssen wouldn’t solve anything and most likely
            would set the team back a few more years in development. They’d get some great prospects for them, but it would create holes which would be very difficult to fill.
            AA is at the stage in the Jays rebuild where Pat Gillick was back in the late 80′s. His kids were doing well, but not well enough to produce on a regular basis and he didn’t want to trade or rush them. Thus he was given the name “Stand” Pat Gillick.

    • Seems he’s also in the dark on many GM discussions. Quite possible no GM wants to do a deal with him because they way he operates.

  7. Just a reminder about your streaky/hot/cold 2014 Toronto Blue Jays – they have proven this season that they are capable of playing very, very good and going on extending winning streaks, winning multiple series in a row etc. Anything is possible.

    Signed,

    The 2007 Colorado Rockies (who were 62-58, 6.0 GB in the NLW & 3.0 GB in the NLWC on Aug 16, 2007)

  8. Happy Drabekkah everyone!

  9. skip stromans start talk on the fan
    Pure madness

  10. Then I guess they should also skio Buerhles as he got routed by Detroit and Baltimore, they should skip Hutch’s cause he stank in Seattle, and Happ got mauled bySeattle so better skip that too. I guess Brad Mills will have to take 3 for the team. Dothese bobos not know that it happens from time to time? I mean Verlandrr himself gave up 5 in the 1st inning to Pittsburg and stank

  11. and fuk, where is Liam Hendriks to absorb a good pounding? oh fuk he may pitch in the playoffs-what a scary hought that would be huh?

  12. All i know is this : When it comes time to draft a 3rd baseman in 25 team fantasy league, Chase ‘bag of trash’ Headley doesnt get picked and is stuck on the waiver wire all year.

  13. So last night on dumb fuck talk wilner starts waxing about how everytine this year the jays have had a down spell they’ve followed it up with a hot streak

    To this I say , WIlner, this is exactly the type of flawed logic that you’d be crapping on if it didn’t fit your agenda

    You would call it recency bias and state that the fact it’s happened a couple times this year no bearing on how likely it will be to happen again

    You would liken in to a statistical blip

    Noise

    Not predictive of the future

    BUT…. Since it furthers your agenda, you are all in on selling this shit

    • You’re jealous because he makes more cash than you do in a a year

    • You’re not wrong. The idea that we can be totally sure what this team will do in August or September is absurd.

      Truth is, we don’t know whether the Jays will lose on out, win on out, or play .500 ball on out. They’re close enough to the race, however, that they still matter, significantly. And that’s important.

    • @Roba

      I heard that as well. It’s possible that the Jays could go on a hot streak. At the very least wih all the AL east competition in September they can make up ground quickly.

      • I think what the Supreme Allied Commander is getting at is that Wilner is taking the Jays “streakiness” to predict that they will again get hot and go on a tear. Further that because Wilner’s job/agenda is to never say a bad thing about them (after all he gets paid to do that), that in any other circumstance he would call the streakiness not predictive of anything. It was a shot at Wilner, not the idea that the Jays are predictable (or not for that matter).

  14. My parents are asking me for advice about a Rogers package they were just offered and I am really trying hard to talk them out of it. Of course, without mentioning my Blue Jays related reasons because that would be ridiculous to them.

  15. Ugh, Francisco needs to be cut loose – experiment over. “keeping Francisco is a matter of asset management” – Stoten, why always siding with crap options moves? Really, Francisco needs to go because he doesn’t factor into anything the Jays need right now (i.e. another freak’n platoon , high strike-out, can’t hit breaking balls situation).

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