mayberry

This came down the wire last night, but it seems worth taking a look at a day later: the Jays made a trade with the Philadelphia Phillies, picking up John Mayberry Jr. in exchange for minor league outfielder Gustavo Pierre.

Not really sure what the Phillies are thinking here, which seems par for the course, seeing as, y’know, they’re the Phillies.

Pierre (pronounced, I’ve been led by a Dunedin Jays broadcast to believe, Pee-er-aye) is a third baseman who will turn 23 in December and was promoted to Double-A New Hampshire for the first time at the end of this season. He’s been in the organization so long that, as an 18-year-old in 2010, he played for Auburn, but he spent big chunks of three seasons at Lansing, and the last year-and-a-half at Dunedin. Part of that is because he struggles so much at the plate. In 2013 he walked just four times in 439 plate appearances — improving to 13 walks this season, in 437 PA! — and the highest OBP he’s produced in five stints at three levels since the beginning of 2012 is .302. This year at Dunedin he slashed a depressing .263/.285/.390.

That doesn’t mean that he’s entirely worthless, though. Phillies blog Crashburn Alley, in their write-up on the deal, notes that Zach Mortimer of Baseball Prospectus wrote last year that Pierre has “a plus-plus arm but was forced to move off of shortstop because of inadequate defensive actions,” and that he “offers good bat speed and average power potential, but he may never realize his talent because of a deficiency in plate discipline.”

He could get better, in other words, but it’s a long shot. And giving him up for a potentially useful piece in Mayberry? That works.

It does, apparently, for Philadelphia, too, as Crashburn Alley explains that “the Phillies likely would have non-tendered Mayberry in the off-season rather than go into a second year of arbitration with him, so getting something is better than getting nothing.”

Mayberry, who is currently injured, makes $1.5875-million this season, and will get a bit of a raise next year, but will still command less than the $5-million per year the Tigers are paying Rajai Davis, whose role Mayberry will essentially take over — minus the stolen bases. He’s certainly a useful piece, though, for a Jays club still (somehow) searching for a proper platoon partner for Adam Lind, posting a 155 wRC+ against left-handed pitching this season, and sporting a 130 mark for his career in the split across 475 plate appearances. He can play all three outfield positions, though he’s not above average at any, but — at least according to the advanced metrics — he’s passable enough to make him potential competition for Kevin Pillar next spring, one supposes. That is, if Pillar is even around still — Mayberry’s presence on the roster certainly makes a sell-high move involving Pillar a possibility.

So… another platoon guy. But one that makes a little bit more sense, at least, than a Nolan Reimold — who was claimed by the Diamondbacks late last week — in that he actually has a pronounced platoon split. So… certainly more useful to the Jays than to

Hey, and Dan Norris is up!

Comments (145)

  1. Sold.

  2. Another guy who could play the OF next year essentially means that Rasmus isn’t back right?
    Wouldn’t be opposed to the jays re signing Melky and going with gose/pillar as cf pllatoon and Lind/Mayberry as dh platoon

  3. ” Mayberry’s presence on the roster certainly makes a sell-high move involving Pillar a possibility.”

    I take it you think Pillar has hit his ceiling?
    If so,you’re out of your fucking mind.

    • Lmao radar
      He can’t take a walk

    • That’s a little extreme, considering he hasn’t done a hell of a lot in the majors to prove he has more.

      I’d say he’s a lot closer to his ceiling than his floor, so it would be a sell-high move.

      • Agreed. He’s the kinda guy you look at and think, if he could only learn to take a walk he’d be great. But when he’s quickly closing in on his 26th birthday without ever really showing that discipline ya gotta figure it’s not gonna happen.

    • Have to agree with Radar, Pillar is worth more to the jays on the roster than trading him (they are short on mlb ready of next year even if Cabrera comes back) and it is not clear he is near his ceiling

      The Guerrero comparison doesn’t hold water and I haven’t looked up any stats to back anything up but seems entirely reasonable that he doesn’t walk much at AAA simply because he makes great contact on the pitches he swings at. It’s not like he is striking out all the time swinging at pitches out of the zone and he is hitting well

      Why is there not the possibility that with time in mlb he will develop the ability to walk when he isn’t qble to put the ball in play hard on as high of a percentage of the strikes he swings at? If that turns out to be the case it would be selling low on him trading him now.

      • @ Nick

        To add,IMHO.
        The guy has never been highly touted,at any level since high school.he’s older because he’s had to fight his way along the way, just to prove himself.
        He got to play baseball at a JC when his high scholl coach called in a favour from the JC.
        Then set records there.
        Drafted late because of a low ceiling and labeled maybe a fringe player in the MLB,at best.
        Then he began his pro career and hit at each level.
        Always hitting over .300 except when he hit the majors.
        Getting sent down seemed to only motivate him. To get noticed, hitting XBH’s,stealing a lot of bases,sometimes playing CF over Gose.Hitting gets noticed maybe he figured walks don’t.
        Regardless,he was the Bison’s MVP.That’s the Most Valuable Player of Toronto’s AAA affiliate.
        For a guy who everybody, at every level. has counted out,he seems to have defied the odds EVERY time.
        This may be his ceiling or he may be a AAAA player or he may flame out but I wouldn’t bet on it.The scouts maybe right but he’s been proving the experts wrong, and they have been wrong at every step of the way.

        • So a bunch of meaningless bullshit then? OK.

          • Could be Stoeten.
            But do you know for sure?
            Of course you don’t.

            Your track record in prognostication isn’t exactly perfect.Just sayin’ , in a meaningless bullshit sort of way.

            Each time his ceiling gas been set,he has surpassed it.
            Maybe he stalls at the MLB level and everybody will be right.Maybe not.
            You think he’s reached his zenith, I say there MAY be more value ahead.
            Who’a thunk we’d be talking about a Pillar/Gose platoon for 2015, at the beginning of 2014?
            That’s a quick rise in value.
            Pull your head out of your ass and look around.

            • Raking in AAA doesnt mean much, if you recall, we also had a once highly touted prospect who raked in AAA, but we traded for a reliever.

              Pillar isnt even highly regarded, his ceiling is well thought to be of a 4th OF. His success at AAA can also be explained by a large BABIP in AAA.

              While he has been hitting ok in his callup, let’s not lose our marbles if we lose him on a decent trade. I highly doubt he’s gonna turn some super outfielder in his career.

              • a lot of talk about ceiling and pedigree when the best player on the jays was a journeyman utility guy until he was 28

            • “I say there MAY be more value.”

              No, you said, “I take it you think Pillar has hit his ceiling? If so,you’re out of your fucking mind.”

              Clown.

              If you’re going to write comments like this, as though you think I might actually be willing to take shit from you, maybe pick a less fucking dumb battle.

              But love you pretending a team MVP in AAA means anything — remember when David Cooper won the PCL batting title! — and regurgitating the talk about him hitting everywhere, as though a guy out of college and a year and a half older than the league average in Bluefield and Lansing means a whole lot. He’ll be 26 next year, so talking about the “fast rise” isn’t the same as if he was actual prospect aged, and suggesting that the fact that we’re talking about him as a potential CF platoon guy (because they have absolutely nothing else) means he has built some kind of crazy value quickly is insane.

              He still struggles badly with plate discipline, and so far those struggles have showed up very clearly when facing MLB pitching. Doesn’t mean he can’t get better, which is exactly why I didn’t say anything of the sort. I called him a possible “sell high” candidate. He’s coming off a very loud AAA season.

              But you can still think there’s a chance he gets better while figuring it’s prudent to trade him based on the very real other side of that chance coming to fruition. So, unsurprisingly, you’re way off on everything here. Hey, but at least you picked a dumb thing that MUST BE THOUGHT and then half-heartedly put up an intellectually bankrupt argument for it while simultaneously trying to slink back away from it. You probably even actually wonder why I’d take such exception to your garbage, too! Adorable!

              • Now you’re comparing the PCL batting title to hitting in the IL.Jeez you can’t be fucking serious.Get a grip
                Having good minor league numbers means you should “sell high” but we know that Major league numbers make a player more valuable in trade talks
                I take it to mean”Selling high” says that he won’t be more valuable in the future.
                And you preach the gospel of Small Sample Size?
                Give the guy some rope but you have already determined this best it will get.
                And based it on what?His walk stat line?That’s it?
                Your evaluation needs some work.
                Now,who’s the clown?

                • No, dipshit, I’m comparing the uselessness of holding up a PCL batting title to the uselessness of holding up an IL team MVP.

                  His walk rate is a major issue, yes. His A-ball numbers are unimpressive because he was old for the level. Double- and Triple-A have been good, apart from the walk rate, but then he’s looked awful against better competition — partly because the plate discipline issue that shows itself up in low minor league walk rates has so far showed up in high MLB strikeout rates as well. It’s not impossible that he can get better, but everything written about him is that he’s a fourth outfielder type, his draft position speaks to what the industry thinks of his skill set, his lack of appearances on top prospect lists speaks to what the industry thinks of him.

                  Doesn’t mean that can’t all be wrong but… well… as for the “selling high” stuff, I already explained that and you either didn’t bother to read it or you’re just too obtuse to get it. Either way, as nice an attempt at a mic drop that you’ve tried to make at the end there, it’s blindingly obvious who the clown is.

  4. Nothing wrong with this move. Nothing to lose. As for next year’s OF situation, so much depends on Melky, if they can keep him, hooray, and let the CF battle begin. I view Mayberry as a DH partner for Lind, period. If they lose Melky, they *must* get a MLB OF that isn’t Pillar, Gose or Mayberry etc.

  5. Platoon future waiver backfill. Won’t provide any value.

  6. I can handle this Mayberry trade.

  7. meh

  8. Assuming they acquire a starting infielder and re- sign Melky, do they keep him and Valencia?

  9. Every time I see “if melky returns” I cringe, since it’s highly unlikely the Jays will pay him the $15Mx4-5 years he’ll likely get.

    Or maybe Buerhle and Reyes will offer to defer salary again…

  10. the fuck do you mean he’s taking over Rajai’s role? lol so dumb.

    and he’s “Rajai minus the stolen bases”? that’s like saying someone is “Jose Bautista minus the home runs” or “Anthony Gose minus the defence”

    • Jose Bautista minus the home runs is still an on-base machine and Anthony Gose without the defence is still fast as fuck.
      Rajai Davis without the stolen bases is still a guy who mashes lefties and can play all three outfield positions in a pinch

    • “First, you gotta shriek like a woman and keep sobbing until he turns away in disgust. That’s when it’s time to kick some back!”

    • He’s a backup outfielder who can platoon at DH with Lind because he hits LHP so well. That’s Davis minus the stolen bases. Not rocket surgery here.

  11. IMO realistic
    Jays offseason plan should be this
    1. resign Melky, though offer no more than 4/60
    2. Get a 2nd baseman after trading Burehle.
    3. sign one mid tier (#3) pitcher and have the rotation dickey, new guy, stroman, Happ, Sanchez/Norris/nolin
    4. Pick up Happ’s option and or trade him if you package him for a 2nd baseman
    5. Fix the bullpen

    • Where is Hutch? If he’s traded, who do we get back?

    • 1 melky is gone, we are not going to outbid 29 teams
      2 beurlie is untradable
      3 we have lots of mid tier starters already, young and old
      4 pick up happ for sure, but he won’t fetch much in a trade
      5 fix the bullpen, bingo, can’t win without one these days but not easy to fix will need to get creative

      • Don’t be dumb.

        • It’s a little pessimistic but hardly dumb

          • That would maybe be the case if he weren’t talking in absolutes on the first two points. He is, though. So it’s dumb.

            • Why wasn’t Melky extended then? You save a lot of money extending FA’s rather than signing them on the free market, and the Jays can get QO compensation if he does leave. I don’t agree that Buehrle is untradeable but I don’t think it’s an insane opinion, the guy is 35 and owed 15M next year. Of course, untradeable always comes with the built in caveat of ‘unless you eat money’

    • Buehrle is a mid tier starter who nobody is going to trade for if there is somebody cheaper available via free agency like you propose the jays sign.

      Otherwise think that is a solid plan.

      Bullpen may be fixed by simply using young guys there for cheap (if you can swallow service time in pen)

      Buehrle Dickey Hutch Stroman Happ
      Sanchez Cecil Loup McGowan Redmond Jenkins Nolin Norris Dalabar Drabek

      Hentgan back as bullpen coach would help

      Get a 2B via trade of lower minors pitching

  12. It’s a possibility that Mayberry could the left fielder in 2015. I’m sceptical that Melky gets re-signed.

  13. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/top-prospect-norris-gets-september-call-up/

    Good video on Norris midway down the article, maybe its been around a while.

  14. Typical shitty Blue Jays trade. Nothing to see here folks.

    • /wrong buzzer sound
      Try again next time troll with a better effort

      • Pointless trade, doesn’t help the Jays go 20-6 this month which is what is required to make the wild card.

        • Actually, sure it could. The move kind of makes more sense for right now than it does for next year. Because really, they better be shooting higher in the off season than John Mayberry.

        • There isn’t a single trade out there that would turn the Jays into a 20-6 team — you could trade Pillar, Kawasaki, Santos and Happ for Trout, Tulowitzki, Price and Lester, but these guys still have to go out there and do it while also meshing with the current team to have a chance at 20-6. The guys already on the team at the moment have had their 20-6 stretch earlier in the season.

          A long way of saying “don’t be ridiculous in saying ‘pointless trade, doesn’t help the Jays go 20-6′, brak brak brak”.

          • Ha.

            Pointless trade = anything that doesn’t turn team into .800 ball club.

            Call Pat Gillick. Tell him he sucks.

    • Hey all, feel free to notify me on Twitter when dipshits like Batsbird here crop up and I will gladly get rid of them.

      • i’m kinda scared of him — he’s beyond nuts.

        you’ve seen T2, right? gotta drag that cocksucker to a slurry pond or a slag mill and sink him but good or he pops up again.

  15. I wonder if the Phillies are going to convert Pierre into a pitcher, seeing as he can’t hit or field.

  16. If he has a plus plus arm, maybe he could be converted into a closer.

  17. Is it wrong to want a guy like Buehrle to be around when the young guns come up? Like for longer than a month?

    • Nope. But I think one of Dickey or Buerhle will probably be gone next year.

      • Agreed

      • Dickey makes 12.5 next year and you have a decent idea of what you’re going to get. why would the Jays trade him?

        • Because they need to make room in the rotation for Aaron Sanchez. Either Dickey or Buerhle should be traded because that money could be better spent filling other holes. DIckey is (probably) the more attractive one in a trade for exactly the reasons you outline above. Regardless, one of them should be traded. Starting pitching is their surplus.

          • your logic is sound except i have yet to see a team, at least in recent years, that has actually had a surplus of pitching. at some point in the year, there are going to be injuries.

      • Won’t be Dickey because he’s affordable, healthy, eats 180-220 IP/yr, and can be very good at times. I don’t like Buehrle’s contract, but same reason Marlins moved him. Both provide young arms leadership. I think both stay – gone are Janssen and Morrow. Happ will return given unproven rotation with Hutch, Stro and Sanchez (Chez??)

    • Dickey and Buehrle are a great compliment to the young pitching. Have six man rotation, young guys in pen and or in minors for part of the year. You can’t have too much pitching

  18. I love how people are poo pooing this trade when it costs nothing and gives us a very solid bat against lhp which has been out biggest downfall offensively this year

    • It’s a good trade. He could help us win games this month, and may be helpful next year also.

    • The trade is fine in a vacuum. It cost us literally nothing and we got back a decent major league player. You make that trade 10 times out of 10. I’m big on incremental improvements….make enough of them and you have a big improvement.

      I think what makes some of us queasy though is anything that has even the slight possibility of not having Melky back.

      Obviously, this trade doesn’t signify that in any way…….but it’s always a little unsettling when Rogers is given an opportunity to save money to the detriment of the team.

  19. I really don’t think Rogers is to look to cut payroll. Small increase is more likely. If Melky wants to be back here, we will be. When is the last time the Blue Jays lost a player they wanted back to free agency? Honestly, I can’t remember it ever happening. After the strike?

    • Carlos Delgado comes to mind. They let him walk because they couldn’t afford his salary accounting for something like 35% of the payroll.

      • Sort of. Was that Rogers or Ricciardi, though?

        • I don’t think you can separate the henchman from the overlord.

          • Kind of you do, I think. Basically, I think they set a budget and it’s up to the GM how they want to allocate those funds. So he could have brought back Delgado, he just thought he could spend that money better elsewhere. Or so I think, anyways.

            • And personally, I think letting Delgado go was probably his biggest mistake as GM. (That and gutting the scouting department.)

            • I’m pretty sure when they set budgets at head office they have a pretty good idea of the implications of whatever constraints they impose on GM. To suggest otherwise is naive.

              • Delgado’s next contract was a serious hair cut from his previous deal witb the Jays. They totally cpuld have resigned him if Ricciardi wanted him back. He just wanted to spend that money differently, I think. You know, two or three decent players instead of one elite one and scrap heap. But I don’t know. I wasn’t there or anything.

                • Exactly my point… Budgetary constraints imposed from on high. JPR had the illusion of choice. That’s about it.

                  I’m done flogging this dead horse.

                  • Ricciardi promised Rogers that he could win on the cheap. That’s largely what made him so attractive to ownership.

                    • Absolutely. It was a totally different scenario then though. They’d just bought the Jays. They didn’t have exclusive TV rights, and they didn’t own the stadium. They didn’t generate as much revenue for Rogers as they do now. Regardless, I’m tired of this horse too because it’s not at all the point I was trying to make. The point I’m actually trying to make is that, even if Rogers doesn’t increase payroll at all, they could still re-sign Melky if they want to. I mean, declining the option on Morrow for next year would probably create enough room to do so. (Although I do think they’ll move one of Dickey or Buerhle also.)

      • They didn’t want Delgado back — they lowballed him because spending was not their M.O.

        Also, to whoever says they should have dealt him, he told them he wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause.

        http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2004/07/17/546823.html

  20. Wagner DFA’d today

  21. You guys need a Lefty masher?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkm1i2o6Ri8

  22. It’s not a significant move. It’s a move that makes sense.

    Feel free to make a big deal of your personal opinion of what else it should be…

  23. Dalton Pompey got called up by the jays according to Wilner.

    AA might be showcasing him,Pillar & Gose for possible trade in the offseason.

    • Ugh. Showcasing. As if teams don’t have scouts.

      • I could see a trade of one of pillar/gose, nolin and a good prospect for starlin Castro.
        Cubs need pitching prospects, jays need a 2nd baseman

        • IF by good prospect you mean Sanchez or Noris….otherwise, that’s a bad deal for the cubs.

          • I think it’s a showcase for the fans. They’re letting us (and maybe upper management) see some of these kids they’ve been talking about. Giving us some hope in the form of talented youth.

    • Graveman too

      • Nolin?

        • Wondering about AJ Jimenez for a third catcher

          On the 40 man on the Jays website, there are 42 names, with Pompey not on there and Morrow coming off the 60 day DL. So Hynes, Rasmussen, Matt Hague, Francisco, and Mastroianni might be on the chopping block. Need 4 spots if my math is right.

          • Could also move Lawrie to the 60 day DL perhaps? And I dont think they would DFA Rasmus, would they?

          • Hague, humes, mastro and Rasmussen are locks to be DFA’d. Was Delabar DFA’d or sent down? Him not coming up is telling

  24. Pompey is a speed demon. Doesn’t hurt to have fast guys available to run off the bench.

    • Besides at third base, Gibby is going to have a lot of tools at his disposal. Looking forward to seeing all these guys.

  25. Full list
    @ShiDavidi: Per industry sources, #BlueJays full Sept call-up list: Norris, Nolin, Graveman, Morrow, Pompey, Gose, Goins, Johnson, Kottaras

    No drabek and kottaras over jiminez is surprising but I guess they had a handshake deal in his contract for a call up in sept

  26. Holy shit!
    No Delabar
    Does that mean he’s gone next year?

  27. Jays have to make some room for some of those guys though I’m pretty sure.

    Gillespie and Mastro probably get released.

  28. Gustavo Pierre got a mention in Fangraphs once. Last season.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daily-notes-reck-leaders-so-far-this-season/

    In this article, Carson Cistulli makes up a stat for hilarity purposes, which he calls RECK, short for Reckless Power. Basically, you score high points on RECK for a high SLG % combined with a low walk rate.

    It is notable that the MLB leader at the time the article was posted was fan favourite JP Arencibia, who at the time was still with us.

    He also posted a leaderboard for minor leaguers. The leader there? Gustavo Pierre.

    So if you’re looking for a comp for Mr. Pierre, it’s basically JP Arencibia, except if Arencibia played 3rd base with the potential for elite defense.

    Plus the caveat that Mr. Pierre was posting Arencibia-like numbers at single-A.

  29. Norris.Pompey,Graveman,Gose,Goins,Nolin,Kottaras, called up.
    Morrow and Dan Johnson activated off disabled list.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/pompey-tweets-hes-been-called-up-by-jays/

  30. Trade is 136 games too late

    (136 and counting for the ninth starting position player at 2B, 3B with Lawrie at second or OF with Lawrie at second and Bautista at third)

  31. […] All the creams are very expensive too. In January i found Ultimate Herpes Protocol and decided to try it, i thought that it has 60 day money back guarantee and there is nothing to lose. I bought it and read it from the beginning …All the creams are very expensive too. In January i found Ultimate Herpes Protocol and decided to tr… […]

  32. I strongly agree. All the creams are VERY expensive.

  33. I also strongly agree that the Mayberry move is probably something for nothing, so woohoo.

  34. Mayberry is atypical of the players Anthopoulos likes. Poor hitting outfielders with decent speed are a dime a dozen. The guys 30. Jays would be better served by gambling on the minor leaguer. Mayberry is a 5th outfielder at best and not a very good one.

  35. Bautista minus the home runs never gets walked.
    Gose minus the defence is useless.
    Rajai is a Tiger. He doesnt play here any more.

  36. Bautista walks because of a superior eye and plate discipline. Over his career he’s swung at a 22.2 per cent of pitches he’s seen out of the strike zone, pretty impressive for a power hitter. Everyone’s favourite patient power hitter Joey Votto has an O-Swing % of 24.2.
    Gose is walking the line of being useless as is.
    Of course Rajai Davis is on a different team. Hence the reason the Jays need to replace him.

  37. right, cuz the only hitters that walk a lot are the big homer hitters.

    and your card was just great. In case you can’t tell, I’m being sarcastic

  38. So you, like, aren’t even pretending to read. Well played.

    [Edit: this was meant to be in reply to Earl].

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