Because I hate unanswered headlines, the simple answer is “yes.” Yes it could.

TSN’s Bob McKenzie was discussing possible end-games for the PK Subban/Marc Bergevin contract stand-off tonight during the first period of the Leafs/Penguins game, when he said he figured “trade” to be the most likely outcome of the situation. And with desperate teams panicking about their defense in the early going – Detroit, in particular, comes to mind – who knows what the Habs could get in return. And hey, while I’m mindlessly bandying about teams, Philly could use a little help on the back-end too. Anyway, that’s where we’re at – insiders thinking the PK Subban situation could end poorly.

Woosh.

Yeah, that too.

Comments (55)

  1. Problem w/ a Flyers trade is who the hell does MTL take that Philly is willing to give up? We already know that Schenn and Couturier are untouchables, so who would MTL want that Philly would actually give up? Philly would have been better off not making the JVR trade and then using him as the centerpiece for a run at Subban.

    • No player is untouchable. Maybe Schenn and Couturier are untouchable normally, but here they’d be getting traded for another untouchable.

      • Yeah.. would go for Couturier and a draft pick for PK, maybe even a little bit more if Philly are willing to do so..

        • Yeah, because Subban is anywhere near the caliber Couturier is. Hmm… who would I rather have… a 6’3″ forward with a great two way game or a shit disturbing little bitch?

          • Couturier had 27 pts in 77 games. The goalies behind him at 5v5 gave him a ~.940. I don’t think Couturier turned Bryzgalov into Thomas, sorry.

            He doesn’t have a great two-way game. I think he will, but not yet.

            Subban has a great two way game right now. There are, at most, 4 D better than Subban and younger than him, too (Doughty, Pietrangelo, OEL, Hedman).

          • You sound like a Flyers fan in every way

        • Did you just say that PK for Couturier+? I think you have the plus in the wrong spot

    • If either or even both Schenns are untouchable in a trade that could net PK Subban, Holmgren should get his head examined.

    • As a Habs fan, only player I’d want from the Flyers is Claude Giroux, which doesn’t seem very likely.

    • You beat me to that thought on JVR Greg…and Luke Schenn hasn’t done anything yet to allay the fear we Flyer fans voiced the minute we found out about the trade.

  2. Marc Bergevin’s looking more and more like a bad GM but if he trades Subban he’s the New Rejean Houle. There’s no way you get value back in a trade.

    • ?? Why?? It all depends on what he gets back! IF he gets a first pick plus an established or up and coming young sniper he would look fine in trading PK. We all love PK and would rather see him at our blue line than trade him off, but there also comes a time when you have to evaluate a player’s big head vs the rest of the team. And if Subban thinks he’s Doughty he needs to go away. Imagine if Bergevin gives him the 6M$ a year for 5 to 7 years and PK doesn’t deliver!! He’ll look even worse, he’ll look like Gauthier! I prefer trading him while he’s hot commodity for another team than sign him in a over inflated contract. Biggest numbers I would be willing to see and say that Bergevin still did good would be the 3.5 to 4M$ a year for a 5 to 6 yr terms.. Over that.. Too bad PK, but you ain’t no Doughty yet!

    • Are you serious ? If he does, it proves me that he’s an awesome GM. That he’s got a plan, a vision, that he does not do his job only to please the fans, and that he does not accept to be bullied by someone who still hasn’t prove all that much, and has ridiculous demands.

      Is PK a good young player ? Sure he is. But he comes with a ego-maniac personality that, personally, I think isn’t a good fit for the Habs right now. As talented as he is, I would trade him in a minute if I can get the return I expect for him.

    • Actually, by not crumbling to Subban’s demands, he looks like an incredibly GOOD GM who won’t take shit from players. He knows if he gives Subban the big money right off an entry level deal (and he only has about 1.5 seasons under his belt, which technically doesn’t equate to 3 years), he knows that it sets a precedent for other young players. Trying to keep availability in the cap is Bergevin’s aim. And by stalling out Subban, who will eventually come to a deal and NOT be traded, he is putting up a tough front. Good on Bergevin.

    • I am quite astonished at the PK debate and how it is divided along linguistic lines; all francophones I’ve spoken to hate PK and all anglophones are adamant supporters of his. Unfortuantely, this is now a no-win situation for PK (if you can forget about the money part) because in the end, he will never survive with Michel Therrien as coach. Those who watched Therrien last year on RDS anti-chambre, can attest to the fact that Therrien never had anything good to say about PK and this year is no exception. It’s time to move on PK; who will be a mega hit anywhere you go and the future looks bright for you, much much brighter than in Montreal. Step up Mr. Molson????

      • The Francophones are brainwashed by RDS … if you listen to that network you will hate PK too.. its ridiculous the non-sense that comes out of that network.

    • You must be joking, right? Marc Bergevin looks more and more like a bad GM … from what are your basis?! The guy hasn’t done anything bad yet, only good things and neutral, or smart things at a long-time level.

      • Bergevin brought a 3rd and 4th line.(Best 4th line in the league) Something the habs have been missing for years. He brought toughness and grit… i know a lot of the pepsi’s cringe at that thought and would rather see figure skaters than hockey players. I think IF philly were willing to give up Courturier for subban that it should be done in a heart beat! Subban is good yes, but you saw what happened to Cam after his stunt. There is no I in team. Subban is putting himself ahead of the teaim.

  3. Roke

    Bergevin is a bad GM ?
    I guess you’re right, he’s been a GM for more than 7 months and he has only 1 win.

    How about giving the guy some time to prove if he’s good or bad ?

    For now he is only unwilling to sign a talented player, that may not have the “intangibles”, for whatever that player is asking in terms of money and duration.

    • Martin:

      1) He hired Michel Therrien, at best a mediocre head coach.

      2) He paid super-premium dollars for a 10-11 minute/game 4th-line winger whose minute are easily replaced by guys making $1 million or less.

      3) He signed Francis Bouillon (whom Therrien is using as a #2 defenseman) even though the team already had 3 bottom-pairing defensemen in Tomas Kaberle, Raphael Diaz, and Yannick Weber plus Frederic St. Denis looked okay in his callup last season.

      4) He failed to fill the gaping top-6 left-wing hole in the lineup with anybody in the summer.

      5) He’s keeping the Hamilton Bulldogs in his portfolio of things he manages, where he’s hired an inexperienced head coach who has completely mangled the forward usage. The Bulldogs also inexplicably decided to use one of their veteran slots on Zach Stortini who has been a liability at the AHL level.

      6)He failed to sign the team’s most valuable and most important player who makes his teammates on the ice better. Consider, for example, that the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole Vache Sacrée line scored at twice the rate last season with Subban on the ice than they did without Subban.

      7) Pretty much all the above moves emphasize character/toughness/truculence over ability. If character was what won hockey games character 4th-liners would be the ones getting the cap-circumventing contracts rather than guys with skill.

      • I just want to comment on the first point there about the head coach hire.

        He really didn’t have many options here, there aren’t a lot of top class bilingual head coaches out there that are available, or likely willing to coach in Montreal, and we all saw how hiring a non-French speaking coach turned out..

        Montreal fans always make me laugh, you know the old saying “cutting off your nose to spite your face”, that’s the first thing that comes to mind when I think of them. Don’t get me wrong I believe they are the most passionate fans in the game, they just don’t express it in a way that’s in the hockey clubs best interest..

        • They’re french… Let me tell you a joke. God and Satan see a man counting 1,2,3 as he rows a boat and Satan says let’s see what happens when i remove half his brain. The man continues 1,2,3 so Satan says okay let’s see what happens when i remove all his brain, “un, deux, trois”

      • How can Therrien be a mediocre coach?? Yes he ain’t no Babcock but he’s proved that he was able to develop players in Pittsburg! Forget about Crosby and Malkin, those are just work horses that will excel with a monkey as a head coach, look at the other he brought up and gave them confidence, Letang was picke 65th in 2005, had good abilities but never was thought of as a first defenseman. He credits Therrien for bringing him to the NHL and giving him the confidence to become a better player. This was reported from many players. The year he got fired the Pens were ravaged by injuries taking the best players off the ice.. Only 3 players were able to play all 82 games, while Bylsma turned things around when he got behind the bench, there was also the thing about getting the best defensive players back around that time. I still think that if Therrien would’ve been behind that bench he would’ve gotten his ring. You also have to remember that the 2006–07 season, he coached the Penguins to one of the most successful single-season improvements in NHL history.. And that says alot about a coach! He got to the finals against the Red wings, which were a better team at that point, and also got taken out by the Sens the year the Sens went to the finals.. So getting taken out by the best teams shows that he is more than “mediocre”, the Pens had to get more experience to go for the cup, and the year they did without him, they had the knowledge of what it took to get there.

        Even the best Greatzky years Oilers were taken out in the Playoffs before they got their first cup! They had to learn to pay the price every minute out there. Took them more than 2 or 3 tries before they did it.. just like the Pens.

        Remember that the Habs team on the ice is far from being their first choice picks!.. Kaberle is far from being a great defenseman, that’s a Gauthier move they have to deal with.. Getting rid of Gomez was a first step, getting Prust in Mtl was a great choice, signing Bouillon is to give the team some grit that is needed for the younger players to see and learn from, Playing Galchenyuk was a great choice, benching Eller may wake him up or send him elsewhere since we’re fine at the center position for now ect ect.. Remember that in the end this team will not win the cup, but they’ll fight to try to get there, and the coaches are good picks, the trainers and people surrounding the players are great choices .. Hamilton.. come on!!.. Mostly kids with limited experience right now, every one knew they would look bad this year.. Where were you when it was posted everywhere??

        Bergevin and Therrien are exactly what Mtl needs right now. Two guys who want to get the best out of the players they have on-hand, and it’ll show after 3 or 4 more games..

        Also I laugh at people who always say “Oh he didn’t get this or that player!” like the GM is the only thing that got in the way.. Signing a top 6 left wing in MTL is not all Bergevin’s fault.. He might’ve sent some offers out there yet no player took it since they’ll pay more taxes ect. Look at Brière.. Gainey offered him almost 1M$ more a year and he signed in Philly because he knew that MTL Amount would actually need to be 2 or 3M$ to even compensate for the earning in Philly!

        PS, being from Gatineau, I know some of his relatives, and they all said that he wouldn’t sign with MTL because of the pressure and everything else MTL comes with.. Same for Brassard, St-Louis and Lecavalier who would’ve never had removed his no-trade for MTL.. They know that if they miss one year, they’ll get creamed by our idiot media (Gagnon, Réjean Tremblay, and the rest of them)… Why want that? WIth Bergevin and Therrien, players might be interested in coming back since they are very protective of their players. Give them a chance before you judge them!

        • Maybe Therrien is good at developing players, but that 08 Pens team made the Finals thanks to the best season of Fleury’s career and dominance from Crosby and Malkin. The 09-current team can hold its own even without its top scorers thanks to its possession dominance, but the Therrien Pens were all about out-skilling the other team in the offensive zone.

    • Yep! Perfect analysis of the situation. Pk needs to prove himself over at least 3 full seasons before he hits bigger numbers in terms of salary.. And that what makes Bergevin a good GM up to this point. Standing tall against PK’s manager is proving that even if you’re popular with the fans, the over compensation days are over in MTL! Play good and we’ll pay you.. But prove it! And PK can do great but he can also do bad on the defensive side so..

  4. It’s just noise. There is no scenario where trading Subban will make the team better. Not going to happen

  5. #FreeTheSubban
    That’s mine…

  6. LOL….trade Subban…..lotta jokers out there with too much time on their hands…..this is NEGOTIATING at its finest…..leak/plant stories and use the media and fans to their advantage

  7. “It doesn’t matter how many times I step on the ice at the Bell Centre, I have the same feeling every time: my head’s ready to explode, I want to kill somebody cutting across the blue line and I want to score the goal and celebrate. And I’ll do it by any means possible to win a hockey game. That’s how I feel playing there. I’m not sure I’d have that feeling anywhere else.”

    “I want to be a big part of them. It’s my bloodline. That’s all I knew growing up. My dad was the biggest Habs fan. And I think that’s something you don’t let go.”

    – Defenceman P.K. Subban

  8. So, what does Ellen think of all this?

  9. He’s not going anywheres.

    You’re not trading a defencemen with that kind of talent, especially when defence is the most covident thing in the NHL today.

    If you want to compare pk to a jake gardiner. It’s not even fucking close! Pk by a country mile and gardiner is untouchable.

  10. Don’t think the Red Wings have the assets. The only players they have of similar or greater value now are much older, worse, pending UFAs or a combination thereof. Their younger players are either inferior or smallish question marks, which can’t be flipped for a guy like PK Subban.

    If Subban were to be traded, Philadelphia’s the team with the need AND the assets to acquire him.

  11. Someone sign him soon he is on my fantasy team

  12. Ken Holland. Get it done. Or offer sheet him. (yeah I know Jimmy D says those aren’t allowed.) Do something!

  13. I think the oilers should be in the mix. When you look at the oilers roster I see 7 top 6 forwards and maybe only 2 that wouldn’t be in the mix. Those 2 being Nugent Hopkins and Eberle. Throw in a dman not named Justin Schultz and possible a 2ncd or 3rd round draft pick they become a very realistic destination. Or i’m delusional and possibly been playing too much gm mode in nhl 13.

  14. First let me qualify my comments coming by letting you all know that I DO NOT know as much about hockey and the players as the rest of you. What I do know is what makes sense to me so if the following comments seem totally out there to you then be educational in your response, not critical.

    First I love Subban and his personality, I believe he is good for the team and the game in general. What I don’t love is the greed that he is showing in asking for a long term, high paying contract. If we pay too much to Subban then we don’t have the cap space to sign other high caliber players when the time comes. Plus really, I am still having nightmares from the Gomez contract who was a proven player.

    • You have to figure he gets more than Bogosian, Carlson, or Hedman, because he’s better. Not as much as Doughty. You’re in the $5-7mill range.

    • I think even if Subban’s demands weren’t for such a contract, there’d still be an impasse.

      Maybe he hasn’t done anything to demonstrate he deserves Drew Daughty’s contract, but he’s also shouldn’t be making what Matt Niskanen makes in his new contract, which is what the Canadians are said to be offering.

  15. I’m a huge habs fan and a big believer in Subban but i have to applaud Bergevin here. Not only is Subban asking for too much, he’s also putting himself in front of the team. Our franchise player (Price) and our best foward (Pacioretty) both took bridge contracts and have since signed big contracts. Subban wants to skip that “step”. He has to learn to be part of the team, which is what Kulikov and Del Zotto did for their teams.

    As for trade talk, i could see Subban, Eller and Weber traded to San Jose for Couture and Vlassic… Maybe a few draft picks would have to trade hands here and there. With a name like “Couture” and “Marc-Edouard” the french media would build Bergevin a statue.

    • San Jose does not need a defenseman. Especially one that thinks he’s way better than he’s actually shown to be. MEV is progressing beautifully and I wouldn’t trade him straight up for Subban and his giant head. And you think you would get Couture too? Laughable.

      • I don’t think any team would refuse Subban on their team, if they did they are’nt looking for success. San Jose does have Boyle, Burns, Vlassic and a good crop for the future, but defence in the west is really really important. So i don’t know why you think the Sharks would’nt want Subban.

        As for the trade, Subban is way (i mean way) better than Vlassic, that’s common knowledge. However, Couture is a hot commodity, that is why Eller and Weber are needed to make up for the gain of Couture. I think its a fairly good trade on both ends and Montreal and San jose have been trading partners in the past.

        But keep in mind that i don’t want nor believe that Subban will be traded. It’s just in case that if there were no other choice, i believe that the only situation where both teams could win

        • Vlasic is really underrated. He’s San Jose’s best defenseman at 5on5. (There’s scoring chance data from a Sharks blog to support this.) I’d say Subban is a little better but Vlasic is on a nice contract, too–a little over $4 million for five years (he’s on the final year of his current ~$3 million deal).

  16. Roke

    All your points are easy to rebut. It’s definitely a case of premature evaluation.

    1) Therrien is an average coach, not a genius, not mediocre. I don’t agree with the fact that the Canadiens coach has to speak french, but once the owner makes that decision, it narrows your field.

    2) Tough guys who can play and actually help you, including killiing penalties, are rare and worth a lot. Yes 2.5 M$ for Prust is a lot of money, but Montreal always has to overpay to compensate for the highest taxes in North America.

    3) Kaberle, Diaz, Weber, St-Denis don’t bring the physical play that is needed, too many look-a-likes. Bouillon brings it, that’s why we needed a player like him. Of course I would love a better player. Let me know if Kronwall becomes available.

    4) A second-line LW ? They are giving Bourque a chance. He scored 27 goals twice in this league, has a reasonable cap hit. He didn’t played well last year, and doesn’t bring it everynight, but let’s see if he adapted to Mtl and can deliver. Who would you have signed anyway ? And where would you find the money to sign anybody with all the contracts that Bergevin inherited ?

    5) The Bulldogs point was already rebutted by somebody else

    6) Where did you find those numbers ? I like PK, but I’m surprised by such a high impact on that line.

    7) Don’t you think that the Canadiens needed more toughness to play and compete with Bos, NYR, Phi ? Buf and Ott have been moving into that direction too. After the games against Bos in the winter of 2011, it was obvious to everyone except Jacques Martin and Pierre Gauthier that the Canadiens needed to do something. A highly-paid skilled player isn’t scoring with a broken neck.

    Your arguments are so weak you could have said “PK is my favorite player, he isn’t signed so Bergevin is a bad GM”. Let’s give him some time. For now, comparing Bergevin to Réjean Houle isn’t fair, with Réjean Houle being a canditate for the John Ferguson Jr award, as worst GM of all time. Houle got Roy, Turgeon, Koivu, Recchi and Damphousse when he took the team, and turn that into a below average team for the next 15 years.

  17. You Habs fans are really drinking the kool aid on Subban. He is pricing himself at twice what either he is worth or the market would dictate. He is a nice top 4 D but hardly a cornerstone. The guy is a pylon against other teams top lines. Habs are doing right thing here and not one fan will burn down anything if they trade him.

    • The stats do not back you up in the slightest. It makes it even funnier that you come in with the bluster you did.

      By what measure is PK Subban not a top pairing defenseman? He played the 14th most minutes in the NHL last season. He was the on the top powrplay unit and the top penalty kill unit and ended the season +9 on the last place team in the Eastern Conference.

      In what way possible could you interpret that he is a “pylon” against other team’s top lines?

    • Stupid comment. Watch a few games before opening your mouth. Subban is a top 2 defenseman on almost any team, with the talent to become a #1. But he isn’t there yet and should accept a bridge contract.

  18. Trading Subban makes no sense from the Habs’ perspective. Even if you bring back a dynamic forward – who plays defense for the team while they wait for Tinordi and Beaulieu? You just spent the better part of 2 seasons getting PK ready to lead the team. Now you’re going to punt on the next 2 or 3 while that wave of young players to show up? Not likely.

    If you move Subban, you just have to turn around and find someone to replace him. You plug one hole and create another. The entire delay is a result of the difficulty in pegging the specific value for PK in the long and short term. Is he the $2.5M of the Del Zotto’s of the world or is he closer to the $6+M of Drew Doughty. Once Montreal and Meehan can get close the deal will be made. You don’t trade 23 year old defenseman who play 25 minutes per night, and end up +9 on a last place team.

  19. Trade him to Edm and start a dynasty. Ryan Whitney + MPS + draft pick? Who knows. I don’t know how much he’s worth but neither do any of the commenters here.

    • I am a habs fan… but i would like to see subban in Edmonton… I dont beleive that MTL is going anywhere any time soon … and if they cant sign PK their young star D player something is wrong… the media in mtl is stupid and year after year they contribute to the best young prospect leaving the team….
      But the oilers are really a few yrs away. Subban would fit right in with these young guys in edmonton they all LOVE the game (unlike the old farts in mtl) they would be the most exciting team with Subban pushing the puck and NHopkins -hall eberle..yakupov finishing the job….
      Who is in goal for edmonton? They need to go pick up a guy like HALAK from st-louis trade for subban…. and I will call my cable company ASAP to get all edmonton games… I rather see a guy like PK happy on a team where he can push the puck…. MTL coach terrien was on a media panel last year who was publicly hating on subban just because he “smiles” too much…. go figure…

      • I have to agree with you. PK is going to be an amazing D-Man, but i’m not sure it is going to be with the Habs. They have a tendency here to bully kids around and make them hate the city. (S.Kostityn, Grabowski, Ryder, Ribeiro,) thats just to name a few within the last few years.

        By this rate, PK will soon leave as well and i would be happy if it means he will land in a team where he can do his thing. Montreal has’nt be fair to the kid and its sad to see potential die in the NHL.

  20. Who watched the Game last night Oilers vs Kings??? I didnt plan to watch it but happy I did… Did you see the celebration after the Oilers Goals?? Yakupov and Gagne Goal? Well this is what I mean when I say that’s where PK should be… these guys are playing and celebrating every goal like its a Stanley cup final game…. and its a sincere display of their love of the game!!! Now when PK celebrate a goal in MTL the media tries to look for negative … they dont want him to play his game dont want him to talk or smile in the locker room…bunch of old bitter players there…. and with therrien a ex RDS media PK hater for coach…i dont know….

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