If you go all the way back to the summer, the two names that have continued to pop up in trade rumours involving the Raptors are Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol. Gay was rumoured to be coveted by the Raptors before Draft night, was once again linked to the team in minor rumours and suggestions in the early parts of this season, and then eventually was acquired by Toronto after rumours became full fledged reports earlier this week. In other words, when it came to Rudy Gay and Toronto, where there was smoke, there was fire.

As RaptorBlog readers are well aware by now, Gasol’s name became a talking point in Raptors-related trade rumours at the beginning of this season, especially when the Lakers hired Mike D’Antoni, who seems to have a need for a floor stretching big man to play his style of offence. Of course, the Raptors have a floor stretching big man who just happens to be near ready to return from injury, while Gasol and D’Antoni appear to be at odds with each other.

Whether the Lakers actually want any part of Andrea “Enigma Of All Enigmas” Bargnani is certainly worth a discussion on its own, but it appears as though the smoke has begun to fill the room again with respect to Gasol to Toronto rumours.

In his most recent Weekend Dime column for ESPN, Marc Stein writes that “the not-for-public-consumption message that continues to emanate from Canada is that Toronto remains intent on pursuing Gasol even after trading for Gay.” In addition, after Bryan Colangelo stated at Gay’s introductory press conference that the Raptors would be willing to spend into the luxury tax for the right transaction, Stein writes that according to a source close to the situation, “Gasol is a guy who fits those parameters, depending on the rest of potential trade principals besides Bargnani.”

At 32, Gasol isn’t what he used to be, but as I’ve mentioned several times this season, I still believe Pau can be a force in the post and that he’s both underused and under-appreciated by the Lakers and their fans. Not to mention, his massive salary isn’t much of a burden when you consider that he’ll be a $19 million-plus expiring contract next season.

So, while some might see this as another short-sighted Colangelo move, it would actually be a low-risk acquisition that could free up cap space in the future while improving the immediate fortunes of a club that just added an exciting wing player in Gay to the fold. For example – and I’m just throwing this out there since up until last night few people thought Gay and DeRozan could coexist – if the Raptors included Bargnani and DeMar DeRozan in a potential deal for Gasol, their salary commitments for next season wouldn’t change much, but they’d actually become much more financially flexible beyond 2013-14.

The real question would have to be what would it take for the Raptors to acquire Gasol, and that’s where my concerns lie. If Toronto has a legitimate chance to land the potential Hall-of-Famer without surrendering either of Jonas Valanciunas or Terrence Ross (I’m pretty confident that JV is off-limits, as he should be, and there were reports that Colangelo wouldn’t make Ross available in the Gay trade, so that’s encouraging), then I’m certainly intrigued. If they can land him without including either of their prized rookies or any of the trio of Lowry/Gay/Amir, and they rid themselves of Bargnani in the process, then I’m all for it.

Of course, this all depends on whether the Lakers are actually willing to part with Gasol, who’s been a Laker for five years now, and whether a package built around Bargnani and DeRozan would even be near worth it for L.A.

I doubt that it would be, but if it is, where do I sign?

Comments (100)

  1. Horrible trade…before I was all for trading Bargs but now that Gay is here as the Franchise player I wouldnt mind keeping Bargs and seeing what he can do coming off the bench to provide a scoring punch….but never to be a starter, but if theres a good trade out there for Bargs im all for it but i dont want to package 23 year old Derozan for 32 year old Gasol

    • wouldn’t mind seeing this trade. everyone seems to overestimate dd n assume he’d mesh well with rudy after the clippers game. fact is, he will never own up to his 10M/yr contract. i get that gasol is old and isnt the player he once used to be, but he’d still easily be in the discussion of being the best center in the east among chandler/noah/lopez this season and next year if he landed in TO. after that, toronto is free to use his 18M elsewhere. ross will be a fine sg and is a slight downgrade from dd at the 2 but comes about $8M cheaper for the next couple of years… which the $8M can be used to fill other holes. right now, toronto is strapped financially for the next few years with a severely imbalanced mediocre roster. by trading for gasol, definitely improves this team on the court and financially.

  2. I’m not sure if Gasol would be such a great fit for this team; can’t really say for sure but I think trading JC has made this teams offence pick up the pace a little; not saying Pau is slow but he is aging so…

  3. why would u want to trade derozan?

    • It’s not that I think trading DD is a must, but I value Ross more and would trade DD in the right move, and a move I feel upgrades roster in short term Plus adds future cap relief qualifies as one of those moves.

      • Ross has had one inconsistent rookie year (well half a year) shooting the ball. He has great potential but how long do you have to wait for his development and will his play have Rudy gay and possibly lowry leave Toronto? Risky move to trade derivable and make Ross the starting sg

  4. I’d hate to give up Derozan and Bargs for Pau. Best case Ontario, they trade Bargs and maybe a second rounder plus cash and or future considerations.

    Let’s get a deal made!

    • LMAO love the trailer park boys reference

      I see Colangelo is trying to get two birds stoned at once

    • Maybe you are unaware, but the salaries going both directions need to match within 125% + $100,000. Raps are taking on 6.4 million too much in your proposal

  5. Derozan and Bargani for Gasol?? are you high?? I wouldnt trade DD straight up for Gasol. Right now Bargnani’s stock is at all time low. The Raptors shouldnt try to trade to him, as in any deal he’s included we will need to give up a priced possession just for teams to take him. That’s why it’s not a good idea to trade him. Keep Bargnani, play the year out,. it’s not like we are going anywhere this year as it is. Then hopefully Andrea shows some signs of improvement and a team might want to take a chance on him in the offseason.

    If Andrea isn’t dependent to be our franchise player or even be a key guy, and have a role coming off the bench I think he would actually flourish. So wait the year our and see how it goes. If we make a dumb trade like you mentioned including Derozan in a package for a 32 washup Gasol then this franchise is actually cursed.

    • You really started a trend here with the whole “are you high” thing. I think you’re overrating demar

      • Demar is a hard working ball player I would rather keep him then a declining gasol.

        They have no chance to win anything this season so keep building by adding young good talent instead of trading youth for age like the old time leafs.

    • Andrea showing improvement? I think you are high…

  6. Probably Ross/DD plus bargs for gasol plus Blake right?

  7. I really disagree that Gasol, is worth Derozan and Bargnani. I say give this team time now and see how it gels before changing it again

  8. this is not a fair trade for raptors derozon is way to much for the trade they should just give lakers bargnani for gasol. Demar Derozon is the next raptors future all star guy and i think they should keep Derozon and give away Bargnani.

  9. You’re nuts!
    I was watching a Laker game a week ago and a player made Gasol spin around with his dribbling.By the time Gasol turned around,the player was 5 or 6 steps ahead of him.He is slow as a turtle and you want to trade a young emerging player like Derozan for that?
    This guy thinks he Brian Burke.

    • Gasol hasn’t been used properly all season. You do remember him drawing double-teams from usa team in gold medal game right?

      • Hey moron,

        Of course you’re going to double a player that is obviously the biggest threat to you offensively. If team USA was playing an eighth grade team with a grown ass Aaron Gray they’re going to double him. I don’t know who wrote this article but if they’re a paid analyst of any kind, that’s a pretty low bar The Score.

        • MEOW, If I was confident in your basketball knowledge, I’d love to have a reasoned debate with you, but since I’m not, I’ll simply state that the silver medal winning Spanish team had Marc Gasol, Jose Calderon, Serge Ibaka and other serviceable players like Fernandez, Rodriguez, Navarro, Llull and Claver, and yet the American team, stocked with some of the world’s best defenders, WERE FORCED to double-team Pau Gasol and dared some of Spain’s other stars to beat them.

          Oh…and despite all of that, Pau finished the gold medal game with 24 points on 9-of-17 shooting to go along with eight rebounds, seven assists and a steal in 33 minutes.

          Sincerely, “Moron”

          Thanks for coming out though MEOW

  10. Gasol is well past it. Don’t trade for him with any package. Let the team absorb Gay first and then see where it stands. There are some talented bigs in Toronto and they should not be underestimated. Among the bigs there is rebounding, defense, shooting, speed and strength–rotate them to keep them fresh and use their individual strengths. And I would keep Bargnani–at his best he can go outside and shoot the lights out, at his worst just sit him down and use someone else. Isn’t that what coaches are for??

  11. Must be high, everyother trade rumor site never brings up Derozen. A trade that would be Bargnani, Fields or Anderson, Klieza for Gasol would be better for everyone.

    • “Better for everyone” ??? You think the Lakers would trade Gasol for two bad long term contracts in Bargs and Fields? And I’M the high one?

      I’d obviously rather trade fields and other bit players than trade DeRozan, but I’d have to be high to believe that the Lakers would accept that

      • Bargs and Fields are both players that Dantoni would see potential in, and has a bit of history with already. I think from the Lakers standpoint there wouldn’t be much of a difference in Fields and Derozan, so if your Raptors why not just opt for trading Fields, he isn’t part of the culture here yet. They are both equally overpaid and would play the same type of role in LA. Both young still. I think Joseph you’re overvaluing Pau a bit too much. If he continues to struggle and/or be injured up to the trade deadline there’s not many other teams who would have anything else to offer the Lakers…. I don’t think a Bargnani/Fields/Kleiza package is that unreasonable

        • FOR THE RECORD, if the Raptors could acquire Gasol by trading just Bargnani and Fields, I’d make that deal in a heartbeat and then laugh myself to sleep over how insanely ridiculous the Lakers are for even considering it, let alone taking it.

          Again, obviously I’d rather trade Fields or Kleiza than an improving DeRozan, but I don’t think either of those is realistic. I assume that the Raps would have to part with one of DeRozan/Ross, and I’d rather keep Terrence.

  12. I have seen this trade suggested before. I think if they can some how make it work by trading Klieza and maybe someone else like Fields then I’m all for the trade. As it stands now LK is probably not the most sought after player at all and Fields contract doesn’t really make sense for the Lakers considering you will expect them to go all in on trying to sign Dwight Howard. I understood the idea behind trading Calderon and Bargs. I am still reserving judgement on the Rudy Gay trade because I think it wasn’t the worst trade that management could have made. I think that because of the Rudy Gay trade several things have changed:
    -We now have two top 10-15 players on this roster at the 1 and 3 spot. Demar Derozan now has a wing player who can draw double teams away from him allowing him to have the opportunity to score with out the pressure of being “The Guy.”
    -I think team defense has improved and we now have a reason for KL to resign.
    -Rudy Gay seems to be vocal and wants to be a leader so he may be able to have an influence on Bargs.
    -We are possibly one of the most athletic teams at the wing spots in the east.
    We haven’t shown floor spacing problems mainly because Kyle can hit the three and Rudy can draw double teams.
    What does this mean for Bargs? Well it will reduce the amount Bargnani will be relied on to score by a lot. If we need someone to space the floor Bargnani may be that guy. I want to emphasize MAY. The guy has had a ton of time to do some soul searching on the bench as well as I am sure there have been many conversations had. I think that trading Bargnani at this point for Gasol doesn’t help our potential floor spacing issues and with Gasol’s knees it doesn’t help our athleticism. Bargnani’s trade value is currently at an all time low. If he can actually return to the “Il Mago” form that he was we may be able to not only make the play offs but also not get swept in 4 games. The idea that I’m getting at is to have Bargs play his way into a trade similar to what we saw with Ed Davis. I want to see him finish out the year and have him possibly traded or amnestied in summer depending on how well he performs over the rest of the season.

    We just signed Demar to a contract extension. It really doesn’t make very much sense including Demar in a trade given his improvements this year. It also wouldn’t look very good to other players because contract extensions signify commitment to between a player and a team. I understand that this deal could create significant future cap space but it doesn’t make sense at this point for the players that you mentioned. I also think that for any major deals to go down this year Demar may have to be a part of them and I don’t know how I feel about that.

    Perhaps obtaining Derrick Willam’s is a possibility?

    …Sorry for the rant. This is not my best post but I am in the middle of working on stuff.

  13. Your high if you want to trade dd

    • I think you mean you’re, not your. Don’t think I’d be able to pick up on that if I was high though :) Thanks for reading

  14. Interesting. NO WAY the raps trade derozan and bargs in the same package for gasol. A) Because BC committed to him and signed him to a massive extension. B) Because the lakers would never take back that much long term salary. I think the raps best offer would be bargs, kleiza, and ross. I would do that. Im ok with trading ross as im not as high on him as others. Would the lakers do that? Maybe, tough to say.

  15. Did you watch the game last night? DeMar and Rudy on the wing together are lethal…. and Ross is great, but the very least a year away from being truly NBA ready. Why would you bring in a guy for the short run and get rid of a major piece that will allow you to win in the short run? Bring in Gasol, yes. Do not give up DeMar to get him.

  16. Bargnani, Pietrus, and cash considerations for Gasol, Chris Duhon & a late rounder. Pietrus is then flipped to another team or bought out by the Lakers.

  17. I would trade Bargnani for Gasol, but would never include Demar, however I think that Bargnani and Fields for Gasol plus fillers would be ideal for the Raptors, but just leave out Demar, the only player who really loves playing in Toronto, you have to be really dumb trading him!!

  18. Trading for gasol would really hamstring the raps on the books right?

    • As I mentioned, if the Raptors traded Bargnani and DeRozan for Gasol, their cap situation would be virtually identical next season, but would actually be $21 million CHEAPER in 2014-15, when Bargs and DeMar are set to make a combined $21 million while Gasol’s contract will already be through.

  19. I would give up Fields and bargnani for gasol but I do think the trade wouldn’t be too bad although I would have to see how bargnani plays off the bench and what other options there are. If we can get a guy like Derrick Williams or Jeff Green I would trade bargnani for them. Although Gasol can play center and amir at pf (I wouldn’t give amir up) that would be a big punch for the bigs down low also let’s not forget Jonas which can learn a LOT from pau, then you got lowry along side demar and Rudy which I think is a great starting lineup. I would absolutely disagree with giving up demar he looks pretty damn good beside Rudy and we give up a hard working young man who seems to keep getting better and could learn alongside Rudy. And if we do land pau don’t bring up the cap space issue, Toronto is a big market team with mlse willing to pay tax if this team gets to the playoffs and I’m sure they will with that type of talent. As for what free agents Toronto won’t be able to sign, that’s not a problem because we landed the star we need in Rudy and no one really wants to come to Toronto via free agency the only way is by trade and we are doing that.

  20. Does anyone know – if Kleiza is traded, does his amnesty clause get traded with him?…or does it void (if traded) …it is only a use for the Raptors!?

  21. What do you think the chances of Amare Stoudemaire being traded are? Because we know BC and him have history and if we have to trade DeRozan I would rather get a young Amare over an aging Pau. Plus I think other than Amare’s defensive deficiencies we are getting a great player. Amare’s contract is huge but BC seems intent on going into the luxury tax next year. The deal I was thinking of was something along the lines of:

    Toronto: Shumpert and Stoudemaire
    New York: Bargnani, DeRozan and Kleiza/Fields

    To me it seems reasonable and it balance’s out or roster really well.

    Lowry – Shumpert – Lucas
    Ross – Anderson
    Gay – Fields – Pietrus
    Stoudemaire – Johnson – Acy
    Valanciunas – Gray

    • as much as i would love this deal, the knicks are not going to give up shumpert.

    • Pau is better than Amare and will be an expiring contract worth just over $19 million next season. Part of the reason I’m up for acquiring Gasol (for the right price) is because it would give the Raptors plenty of flexibility after the 2013-14 season, especially if they find takers for Bargnani/DeRozan and amnesty Kleiza.

      Also, you referenced Amare as “young” compared to an aging Gasol, but even Gasol’s tendinitis-afflicted knees are still fresher than Amare’s broken down knees. Lastly, Amare will be owed roughly $45 million between the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons.

    • That second unit would struggle to score on a regular basis i think

  22. Amir is way more productive then Pau. I’d rather Amir get those minutes ,and develop furthermore . Just try to get any draft pick you can for Primo and test the market for DD and see what his worth is.

    • I’m not suggesting taking minutes away from Amir at all. Most teams have a three-to-four man bigs rotation, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a three-man rotation of Amir, Pau and a developing JV.

      Also, no one is giving up a draft pick for Bargnani.

  23. Isn’t Anderson’s a high-value contract, in that he’s so underpaid given what he’s shown this season? I’m just wondering aloud whether that would be enough entice the Lakers into taking Bargs (who they conceivably want), Kleiza (who they don’t but, but who gets the salaries closer to a match), with Anderson as a cheap sweetener. I for one would hate to see DD go without giving him some time to run with Rudy, they were flying last night!

    • The laker s would love to get Anderson

    • They looked great last night, and I’m not saying the Raptors should trade DeRozan immediately. Stein reported that the Raps still covet Gasol, everyone knows the Raps would love to trade Bargnani, and I merely said if the opportunity to make the suggested deal came up, I, personally, would make it. I believe it would make the team better in the short term, and there’s no denying it frees up financial flexibility in the long term.

  24. Joseph, everything you said was right until you mentioned demar. Joseph, everything you said was right until you mentioned demar. I actually don’t want pau, but if it means cutting Bargnani and Landry Fields (maybe raps agree to pay some of his salary to make it work). That makes more sense, however, Lakers probably don’t want a 16-30’s expensive crappy duo. Demar has too much value, and yes potential, to be included in This deal. Why? Yes demar is athletic, he has this raw skill set with ‘natural deficiencies.’ Like Shooting, handles, passing, rebounding. However, Demar has gone from: no jumper with a few dunks, to a decent mid range, to now a dependable jumper (tops for a SG), demar couldn’t rebound, he made bad decisions to drive, he couldn’t hit free throws, he couldn’t make any threes. I hated his contract extension but I and many others have seen this ‘evolution of demar’ as you weekly put it. The guy came back bigger, he posts up, draws more fouls, make good Ft %, he pulls out on low % rushes, hes capable of 20-5-5 nights without too much infrequency, all the 3’s he makes are timely and the % has increased. He probably is not capable of All-stardom, but yesterdays game showed me he isn’t ready to hand over the keys, shots or the team to Gay with out a fight (in a good way, they looked good together). Demar is not untradeable, I really would let him go but Pau for Bargs and Demar is a joke. I didn’t even agree with Caleron and Bargs for Pau. Sorry Joseph, your a good blogger but this pissed me off.

    • I completely agree with this. I was thinking maybe Demar for Millsap as an alternative.

      • If the Raptors could acquire and then re-sign Millsap while only giving up DeRozan, that’s a fantastic, franchise-changing move for the Raptors. I’d obviously rather Millsap long term than Gasol. Only reason I’m talking Gasol is because I was addressing the latest Stein report.

        But believe me, we are DEFINITELY on the same page with Millsap.

  25. Joseph, great article!

    I, as a hardcore lakers and Raptor’s fan. Would love this trade as a Raptor but hate it as a Laker.

    I’ll break it down for anyone reading this.

    As a raptor fan, why would I love this?
    This gives us a shot at an eastern conference without question. Pau Gasol is a walking 18 and 11, 3-4 assists. 1-2 blocks and best of all, a great speaker and voice. He’s encouraging and he’s got fundamentals. Yes, he’s slower but him an athletic team with discipline? He WOUDLNT BE A LIABILITY by any means. He doesn’t fit the Lakers system under coach Mike D. He’d thrive here. Giving up Bargnani and DeMar won’t be missed. We’d have a better shooter and ball handler in T Ross to start and btw: he plays much better defense than DeMar.

    I’ve been watching Kobe Bryant since he was a teenager (I lived in California from 90-99). Terrence Ross is a 17-18 year old Kobe Bryant with a better 3 point shot and weaker cross over. Go and compare tape. This kid, if given the RIGHT individuals to work with during the offseason can become elite but that all begins with our coaching staff, hope they don’t turn him into a shooter.

    As a laker why would I hate it?

    Simple: Lakers get out rebounded an have a stretch power forward in Earl Clark/Jamison. Bargnani is a weaker rebounder than them. Also, DeMar would be excellent off the bench but he would need to be aggressive and have a tighter handle to dribble and create off the bounce (which he hasn’t been trained to do).

    However, as a Laker fan. I’d rather have Bargnani + Ross and Klieza/Pietrus for Pau Gasol. We’ll give you guys Duhon or Morris since Raptors lack a true back up point guard.

    I’m sure Raptors can understand, you guys won’t be able to develope Terrence Ross into his potential anyway so give him up and compete for an eastern championship for the next 2 seasons until Pau’s contract comes off the books and you guys throw $ at a free agent who will see a successful Toronto Franchise and would LIKE to sign.

    • Joseph, great article!

      I, as a hardcore lakers and Raptor’s fan. Would love this trade as a Raptor fan but hate it as a Laker fan.

      I’ll break it down for anyone reading this.

      As a raptor fan, why would I love this?
      This gives us a shot at an eastern conference championship without question. Pau Gasol is a walking 18 and 11, 3-4 assists. 1-2 blocks and best of all, he’s a great speaker and voice in the locker room. He’s encouraging of others and he’s got fundamentals, plus he’s fimiliar with winning and grinding out games. Oh, he’s also fimiliar with Rudy Gay.

      Yes, he’s slower but him on an athletic team and quicker players that not only have discipline, but have respect for others? He WOUDLNT BE A LIABILITY by any means. He doesn’t fit the Lakers system under coach Mike D that’s why he’s been forgotten. He’d thrive here. Giving up Bargnani and DeMar won’t be missed. We’d have a better shooter and ball handler in T Ross to start and create better floor space oh and btw: he plays much better defense than DeMar.

      I’ve been watching Kobe Bryant since he was a teenager (I lived in California from 90-99). Terrence Ross is a 17-18 year old Kobe Bryant with a better 3 point shot but weaker cross over. Go and compare them both on tape. This kid, if given the RIGHT individuals to work with during the offseason can become an elite player but that all begins with our coaching staff, hope they don’t turn him into just a shooter off of screens.

      As a laker why would I hate it?

      Simple: Lakers get out rebounded already with D12 playing 38 minutes at Center and already have a stretch power forward in Earl Clark/Jamison. Bargnani is a weaker rebounder than them so that defeats the purpose. Also, DeMar would be excellent off the bench but he would need to be much more aggressive offensively since Lakers lack a productive bench in terms of scoring and would need a tighter handle to dribble and create off the bounce (which he hasn’t been trained to do) since Steve Blake isn’t Lowry or Calderon at setting up wings for shots.

      However, as a Laker fan. I’d rather have Bargnani + Ross and Klieza/Pietrus for Pau Gasol. We’ll give you guys Duhon or Morris since Raptors lack a true back up point guard.

      I’m sure Raptors can understand, you guys won’t be able to develope Terrence Ross into his potential anyway so give him up and compete for an eastern championship for the next 2 seasons until Pau’s contract comes off the books and you guys throw $ at a free agent who will see a successful Toronto Franchise and would LIKE to sign.

    • Thanks for the feedback.

      As for your counter-offer, my response would be: “Sorry, we’re not prepared to part with Terrence Ross at this time. Not for Pau Gasol anyway. Are you sure we can’t interest you in DeRozan?”

  26. ……………… Y do u get paid for this crap?

  27. Joseph Casciaro, do you even know how to write articles?? I cant believe that you would trade an aging Gasol for a quality wingman like Derozan and Bargnani. Wait until Bargnani plays better before you write an article like this. Disgusting…

    • Sorry man, I googled “how to write articles” before I wrote this and really thought I had a good handle on things. Sorry for “disgusting” you.

      In all seriousness though, with respect to your arguments about an aging Gasol, I wouldn’t trade for him if he had many years left on his deal or if i had to give up one of Ross/valanciunas. Heck, as I said, I wouldn’t give up either of Amir/Lowry/Gay for him either. It’s not a personal knock on DeRozan. I love some of the developments in his game this season, but I still believe there is some duplication there with Gay in the fold (Rudy just does most things better) and that Ross will be the better two-guard in the future, so I see DeMar as expendable. In addition, I see Pau as an immediate upgrade in talent over bargnani and a player whose contract will deliver valuable cap flexibility next (2014) summer.

  28. hahaha bargs and derozen for gasol, colangelo isnt that stupid did you not hear what rudy gay said after the game?…’demar is the best 2 guard ive ever played with’, why the fuck are we gonna package in a 23 year old 2 guard not even in his prime yet for an aging 18 mill a year power forward??…now that gay is on our team its makes demar even more valuable becomes teams wont focus in on him and double team him, having gay in the lineup is only going to benefit demar….ive said it before and ill say it again colangelo just signed demar to a 4 yr ext its going to take more than and aging over paid power forward for him to deal his 2009 1st rnd pick.

  29. Nobody’s trading anything that isn’t a poison pill for Bargnani. He needs to be amnestied, as I’m sure an increasingly desperate Colangelo is aware of.

    • Hey man, if Bargs comes back from injury and still looks useless, therefore rendering him untradeable, I would LOVE to see the team amnesty him. No argument from me there.

      But at the same time, if they could actually trade him for a piece in Gasol that I still believe has value without trading any of the other players I mentioned, then I would pull the trigger and use the amnesty on Kleiza this summer.

  30. You Joseph C. have something against derozen… Derozen is improving every year, and I really believe he can become a star with this team, u said derozen and Rudy wouldn’t connect well, the clippers proved that otherwise.

    The score: why do u have this guy writing your articles ? Where is cabbie, sid and tim ?

    • I have nothing against DeMar. As I’ve stated many times, I would love to see him blossom into a star here because I find his commitment to the city and work ethic refreshing. But if I was in charge of player personnel moves, I wouldn’t let my personal feelings for players get in the way of making decisions/moves that I felt could benefit the team.

      As for how great he and Rudy looked together against the Clippers, it was awesome to watch and I hope it continues, but I’m not going to change my mind on certain things because of ONE game.

      By the way, it’s spelled DeRozan, not DeRozen. I usually don’t stoop to correcting commenters’ spelling/grammar, but if you’re going to claim I have something personal against a player, I figure I should ensure you know how to spell said player’s name.

  31. This comment thread is creepy. Joseph, I’m pretty sure you’re getting trolled by one guy with 16 aliases.

    • LOL…I wouldn’t be surprised.

      I don’t find it creepy though. I have no problem with people taking a different stance. I just think this comment thread is further proof that Pau Gasol is severely UNDER-appreciated.

  32. I got a better trade look at this Andrea Bargnani and Acy or fields for glen davis

  33. Mr. Casciaro I just don’t understand this potential deal. To me it just doesn’t make sense for BC to sign DD and then just trade him away for Pau. The biggest argument I have noticed from you (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that it gives us cap flexibility after Pau’s contract runs out, which is great and all but BC hasn’t exactly given me the confidence when it comes to having money to spend. He tries, I’ll give him that, but he constantly overpays for talent trying to find lightning in a bottle.

    I just don’t see how this deal would help us in either the short or long term. But hey, what do I know, I’m also probably the only guy who reads your articles that actually wants to keep Bargnani.

    • The cap flexibility is a big part of the argument for me, and I totally hear where you’re coming from with respect to Colangelo’s reckless spending, but I’d still rather have that flexibility if I can do it WHILE improving the team in the short term.

      And that’s the other part of the argument. I wouldn’t be in favour of this move strictly for salary cap reasons. I legitimately believe Pau is a more valuable player than DeRozan right now and that he’s been severely misused in L.A. so far this season.

      So the way I see it, Raps get better for next 1.5 years (Lowry, Ross, Gay at the 1-to-3 positions, and a bigs rotation of Gasol/Amir/JV) while also getting MUCH more financially flexible in the future.

      • I do agree that Gasol is being misused in LA, and I would really enjoy seeing him in a Raptor jersey before the end of the year. But, I just don’t want it to come at the expense of DeRozen. However, he really is our only decent trading piece at this point. So if BC does somehow manage to pry Gasol away from LA, I would expect DD to be included.

        Do you know if there is anyone out there that the raps are looking to trade for?

        • Pau’s name is only one in Raps-related rumours post-Rudy trade, but given how active Colangelo is reported to be and given that deadline is less than three weeks away, I’m sure at least one other name will come up between now and then. Should be interesting to watch BC’s next move…

  34. Hi Joseph,

    Good article. I agree that targeting Gasol is good move for short term goals of winning and long term goals of finical flexibility after next year. I think that Gasol is not being properly used in LA, and would benefit significantly in Toronto as their centre, because he will have much more plays set up for him, specifically in the post. Right now he is only taking 11 field-goal attempts, and of those most of them are out of his comfort zone.

    This is the perfect time to trade for him, because there is so much wrong with the Lakers right now, that they dont realize that its not Pau Gasol who should go, but Mike D’Antoni. I think people forget that Gasol averaged 17 and 10 last year, and that it was only until LA got Gasol that the Lakers got their back-to-back championships. What team wouldn’t want an unselfish veteren centre with multiple championship experience, and amazing post skills?!

    Although, right now a trade of DeRozan + Bargnani + contract fillers for Gasol is too much, as his value is so low, it would be stupid to not take advantage of that. I agree with you that Ross can be better than DeRozan, and would fit much better with Gay, but trading DeRozan when Ross is not ready and inconsistent will hinder the Raptors Playoff hopes. Currently no playoff team has a rookie starter, and this tells you that experience wins you ball games. Ross is not ready plain and simple, and its wise to keep DeRozan at least 1-2 more season, to allow Ross to mature and expand his game. An example is Ed Davis. He did not play big minutes until this season, and it helped him, as it made Davis more hungry, and more motivated to become good enough to start. I think this will be the same case with Ross, and eventually he will replace DeRozan.

    Now, realistically a trade package including Bargnani + conract fillers like Kleiza, fields, Anderson for Gasol, can only happen if Bargnani comes back from injury and rains three-pointers like its his job, which it is, but so far this season he has not shown it consistently. I believe Bargnani is playing against miami on Sunday, so if and only if he rains dem threes for the next 8 games till the trade deadline, will the Lakers even consider a trade for Bargnani + contract fillers. So, heres to hoping Bargnani shoots more threes… Haha I never thought that would be even possible…

    • With respect to your argument that Ross should be given more time to develop before DeMar is traded, one thing I should have included in the post is that I’d be fine with this deal going down in the off-season. That way Gasol has one year left on his deal and will probably play his heart out, Casey will get full off-season and camp to prep for new lineup with Gasol, and more than anything, Ross will have a full season and another summer of work/development under his belt to start filling DeMar’s void.

      Would you be more willing to make this deal in the off-season, assuming it was actually a possibility?

      • Yes including DeRozan in this trade makes more sense if it was in the offeason, as you pointed Ross will have a year and summer under his belt going into next season.

        However, I see Gasol’s trade value increasing significantly by the offseason. He will be on a massive $20 million expiring contract, and with the new punitive luxury tax system kicking in, there will be much more teams offering better deals than what the lakers are receiving now.

        Also I factor in the “trade deadline” factor. There’s something about the pressure of the expiring time that forces GMs to make major decision and take risks they would not do so in the offseason. So if there were a best time to get Gasol, it would be now especially, since his value is low.

        I also want to point out that I think the Raptors can get Gasol now, without including Ross or DeRozan. Colangelo has shown he is good at 3 team trades. Thats a possibility.

        • A three-team deal might be the key, and you’re definitely right about the deadline pressure, especially for a team like the Lakers who might feel they HAVE to make a deal.

          About the three-team deal possibility, if Colangelo can rid the Raptors of Bargnani and acquire Gasol without giving up either of Ross/DeRozan and without giving up JV and all of the others I mentioned (Lowry/Gay/Amir), I’ll personally start a petition to get him his extension.

          • I think right now, its more of a possibility, but still quite difficult. Things sometimes just dont go as plans, and it would not be surprising for Colangelo to include Ross in the deal if it would get the deal done.

            However i still feel strong about keeping DeRozan, Ross and the others you mentioned at least till the offseason so we can evaluate how well they fit and play together over the next 35 games

  35. I really hate the idea of trading DeMar, especially for a 32 year-old PF who isn’t necessarily better than Amir. Granted, I probably value DDR more than most “educated” Raptor fans, but I think DeMar’s shot selection, assists, FG% and turnover rate are all going to improve now that Rudy’s here, simply because he won’t be double teamed nearly as much and he won’t be relied on to score as much.
    If I’m the Raptors I’m keeping the phone lines open for Bargnani offers while letting him come off the BENCH. If he sh*ts the bed in the next few weeks, take whatever we can get for him. If he plays within his skillset and provides efficient offence, keep him around for the season and trade him in the summer when his value is higher than now.

    Obviously it depends on what we get in return, but I am not opposed to packaging Ross with Andrea, as opposed to DeMar for mainly one reason: by trading for Rudy, the clear message is that we want to win NOW. Regardless of who is the better player in 4 years, right NOW DeMar is the better player.

    If you look at our starting five Lowry, Gay and Amir are all in the beginnings of their prime. DDR is 2 years away. Only Jonas is not there.

    If making a trade, I’m looking for a package of a 4/5 and a PG, both in their mid-late 20s. The team to trade to would have to have quality prime players while currently undergoing a youth movement, so they would like to receive young assets and they know their players in their prime aren’t part of the long-term future.

    I haven’t checked salaries or given much thought to a “who” we can get, but something like Reddick + Big Baby for Bargs + Ross + Fields (ok, no way the salaries would work in this example) would be the type of trade I’d want to make.

    We get players capable of playing the 1, 4 and 5 who are both in their primes and make this team better immediately. Orlando gets a prized young asset with tremendous upside, a still-young SF who can still improve and has many years left in his body.

    • A few years ago Boston traded away all of their long-term assets, except Rondo, for accomplished veterans. They didn’t go 50/50 on win-now/youth-movement. They went all in.

      The Nets just did the same thing.

      I’m not say BC did the right thing to trade for Gay, but the fact is he did, so there’s no going back. He wants to win-now, so get some more players that can help us win now. Going 50/50 on win-now/youth is the worst thing we can do. The obvious exceptions is if we can somehow manage to keep our starting 5, AND Ross, AND trade Bargs for a useful veteran.

    • I wouldn’t feel comfortable trading Ross in a deal where the players I’m getting back are Redick and Big Baby. Nothing against those guys, but I think Ross has WAY more value than that.

      In terms of comparing Ross and DeRozan, I agree that DeMar is obviously the better NBA player right now because of the experience, but I also think you’re under-estimating how much better of a pure basketball player Ross is and how ahead of DeRozan’s rookie self Ross is in terms of bball fundamentals. With that in mind, I can see Ross eclipsing DeRozan a lot sooner than others see it happening.

      • I didn’t use that specific trade example as a legitimate idea when it comes to who we get back, but merely to provide a example of the win-now philosophy we should be trading for IF we make a trade.

        There is no way of knowing for sure who will be better down the line between Ross and DD. I haven’t seen the flashes in Ross of an ability to drive to the rim like DD showed in his rookie year. Ross has also never had to deal with double teams. DD when not double-teamed is way further than Ross when not double-teamed.

        Al Jefferson and Varajao are on the market right now. I value Jonas over Ross, and in order to get a big talent, we’d have to be willing to part with one of the two. Btw, I’m all for trading for a 4/5, having them start beside Amir and having Jonas come off the bench. I wish we still had our 1st round pick to trade.

        • I agree with you that there will be a win-now philosophy behind any trades the Raptors will do till the deadline.

          As for Varajao, he’s out for the season due to injury so rule him out, and Jefferson is a free-agent in the summer so theres a risk of losing good assets for nothing.

          I think the raptors should go after Gasol the most, and see what deal they can get done. If the deal includes Ross or DeRozan, you have to consider if they would be better off just trading Bargnani for an expiring contract plus a draft pick.

      • I should also clarify, I am not opposed to getting Gasol. Having him start beside Amir with Jonas coming off the bench would be lethal. But giving up DeMar is way too much.

        A starting five of Lowry, Demar, Rudy, Pau and Amir is easily top 15 in the league.

  36. Keep up the good work man. I know I for one appreciate it.

    • Thanks RK, I appreciate that. I have no problem with people disagreeing with a post or taking a different stance than me, but a select few of the commenters in this post weren’t able to have a good old fashioned basketball debate without getting personal, which speaks more towards those few than the general/regular commenters on RaptorBlog, who are usually very reasonable while still passionate.

      It’s all good though. The number of comments we’ve been getting in general on posts over the last little while has been a great indication of the passion that exists among Raptors fans.

  37. BTW I’m excited for the next raptor blog radio

  38. I wouldn’t make this move. There just aren’t a lot of young, quality SGs with stats comparable to Demar. He is a much more valuable asset than most Raps fans perceive. Don’t get me wrong, I would trade him in a heartbeat IF the Raps received better talent back, but sadly, with Pau’s decline it’s a push, and Demar potentially can improve. Furthermore:

    1/ Ross will not be ready to start with one season of experience. Seriously, for all he does well on defense check how inefficient he is on the other side of the court at Synergy. Give him 2 seasons…wow Ross has potential if he’s not rushed.

    2/ LA would be making the trade from a place of weakness YET we would be giving up the most long term talent.

    Thanks to Quincy being serviceable, and the playoffs a non-guarantee, there’s no rush to trade Bargs. The Raps can take their time, see if AB can raise his stock, and avoid trading a solid asset like Demar to move him. At worst we amnesty Bargs. With Gay, DD, Lowry, etc, hopefully now the Raps appear attractive to younger, athletic free agents.

    Right now we need a starting 5 (Until JV matures), maybe a starting 4 (what are your thoughts on Amir?), and a backup 1. Trading Demar for an aging 4/5 without an immediate replacement actually sets the team back, adding to the team’s needs in my opinion. As far as the Raps cap issues? It’s not my money, and MLSE is in the national (Canada) TV content business. That makes the metrics a lot different than other “small market” teams.

    Pau’s lack of speed on a young team that features three bigs who have speed (JV, Acy, Amir) seems a bit counterproductive. If Colin Cowherd would trade Gasol for Demar –and said so months ago– no way I do a trade that a goof like Cowherd giggled with glee at, because he made it clear who would win that trade. The Lakers are soo rich they would do that trade and sit Barg on the bench besides Sacre for the next 3 years content that they got their man in Demar.

  39. A lot of people seem to be overvaluing DeRozan. I like his work ethic, but this is the same situation as Bargnani. DeRozan is a good (not great) scorer who really isn’t good at any other aspect of the game. He’s not a good enough scorer to be a first or second option, and he’s not a good enough defender to be a role player. Plus, he’s going to be overpaid starting next year. I don’t think the Lakers would take Bargnani and DeRozan for Gasol, quite frankly. Not with their rather cumbersome salaries.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Colangelo was holding onto Ross in order to package him with Bargnani. Ross was never Bargnani’s “guy”, just like Ed Davis. I think Colangelo is willing to mortgage the future to get Gasol, which I think would be a huge mistake.

  40. Sounds like you’ve got the Leafs’ talk radio call-in crowd in here:
    “We need an elite player, but can’t afford to give up any young talent. Therefore, we should trade the following three scrubs for the best player in the league… 3 for 1! The other team would surely take that deal any day!”

    The Calderon trade taught two lessons: 1) That personal likeability doesn’t get in the way of the business of making the team better; and 2) That you have to give up high value to get high value. So no one, not even DeRozan, can be called untouchable.

    (Note: Lesson #2 not applicable to the Blue Jays)

  41. To 90% of the people commenting here, what are you smoking? Derozan is not as good as Gasol. If we could get Gasol for Derozan, Bargnani and Kleiza that is a steal. Gasol is still a great big man who dominated at the olympics, and averaged 17/10/3/1.5 last season.
    Due to Kobe, Ross and especially Derozan aren’t that useful to the Lakers. To get Gasol we would need to give up Amir and/or Lowry.
    The Lakers would maybe do Bargnani, Derozan and Amir for Gasol and Sacre.
    Or maybe Lowry, Bargnani for Gasol and Blake.
    Not saying I would do these for sure (especially Lowry) but this is what LA would want.

  42. Joseph Casciaro is the rob babcock of writers. Why would you give up a DeRozan in any deal especially for pau this guys disappears when he team needed him the most in the playoffs and you want a guy like that on our team. Ross is in his first year and your already giving him the starting role just because he can shoot and do some stuff better DeRozan is a better player at this point. Pau is 32 and does not fit what we want going forward as a team he doesn’t bring anything different to our team and would not improve in any way. If he was so good and was able to be a difference to a team he would be doing so on the Lakers

  43. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d2gvhry

    What I think is a fairly realistic 4-way trade (although those are hard to pull off):

    P. Gasol
    J. Taylor (or fill-in another cheap wing player)

    To LAL:
    J. Smith
    L. Fields

    To ATL:
    D. DeRozan
    D. Diop

    To CHA:
    A. Bargnani

  44. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cq93a87

    Raps get gasol, Atlanta gets bargnani and kleiza, la gets smith and fields.
    I seriously think this is a win for everybody. Raps get gasol without losing any of the core players. Atlanta was going to lose smith at the end of the season since he’s not going to resign so this way they get a proven scorer with bargnani (kleiza can be substituted with Anderson since his trade value is higher right now) Lakers get a replacement for pau in josh smith who will be happy to will sign in La and fields for depth.

    So Toronto gets their interior presence, lakers get some youth and players that fit dantonis system and atlanta doesn’t lose josh smith for nothing. Am I right or terribly wrong here?

    • Well if Smith agrees to sign an extension with Toronto then the trade doesn’t make sense because why not just trade for Smith. If he doesn’t then maybe but Atlanta could get more value out of j smoove

  45. Bargnani will return and be HUGELY productive. We will be right in the playoff hunt with him as the 6th man. Raps badly need a big man who can score.

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