Detroit Pistons v Toronto Raptors

With Andrea Bargnani set to be out of the picture come July 10, the next move Masai Ujiri makes will likely be the move that gives us an indication one way or the other whether the Raptors will be looking to go “Diggin’ For Wiggins” next season or will be looking to take a step forward.

If the Detroit Pistons have their way, they’d reportedly like to take Gay and his maximum salary off of Ujiri’s hands while presenting Toronto with a prime opportunity to tank…

That Joe Dumars and his obsession with mediocrity.

Stuckey and Villanueva will make just over $17 million between the two of them in 2013-14, and replacing Gay’s $19,317,326 player option in 2014-15 with two guys who will be off the books at that time after already trading Bargnani could create over $25 million in cap space for the Raptors next summer.

If the Raptors were to accept this offer, the team would be in prime position to land a high lottery pick in what is shaping up to be the best Draft class in a decade, would have more than maximum salary cap space in a summer where some franchise changing talent is available via free agency, and you’d have to assume that at the very least, they’d also still have a building block of a centre (Jonas Valanciunas) already in place.

As painful as the on-court product would become during the 2013-14 season, a trade of this nature could put the Raptors in position to take a gigantic, power-shifting step forward next summer.

Having said all of that, we’re not even sure that Ujiri wants to tank the season. And even if he does, knowing Masai’s reputation for being patient, selective and generally diligent when piecing together a trade, you’d have to assume that he can squeeze more out of a Rudy deal than this, whether by getting more from the Pistons themselves or from another potential trade partner.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if Gay believes he can get more than $20 million total, guaranteed, on a new contract after 2013-14 (which is actually pretty likely), there is the possibility that he opts out anyway, thereby creating the same cap space that this deal would create.

Anyway, buckle up, as for lack of a better term, shit’s about to get real…



My guess is that the resistance isn’t so much about a refusal to take a strategic step back (that’s my fancy way of explaining tanking), but that as I wrote above, Ujiri surely feels he can find a better haul than this for Gay.

Comments (125)

  1. wait but if the pick is top 8 protected…we woudln’t necessarily have to tank am i right? we can still be capable of making the playoffs and still be assured of our top 8 pick right Joseph?

    • Not sure which pick you’re referencing. Raps have their 2014 first rounder. There’s no protection on it because it belongs to themselves. Are you talking about another pick?

      • Can we just give you the advanced fan blog so we don’t have to listen to some of these other amateur questions and opinions. It really takes away from the credibility of some of the threads.

      • I think he is referring to the pistons pick but its already been traded away…

  2. Everyone but jv and derozan should be on the block

    • Valanciunas should be the only untouchable (or at least the closest thing to untouchable) on the current roster. After that, it’ should be Amir.

      • 100000 times yes. Amir because of his contract and underrated play. Jonas because he’s young, cheap, full of potential. And also promising big men are just really rare.

        I say get rid of Gay, whatever it takes. I like DD a lot, but with his contract, ship him out too.

    • Agreed, derozan and jv really should not be on the block

    • Dd untouchable?? Are you out of your fucking mind?? Talk about obsession with mediocrity.

    • Get off the crack

  3. Don’t see how this would be tanking, the only team Gay made better last season was the one he left. Raps were a 500 team with Bargs out, and that’s about what I expect from them next season. With or without the irrelevant Rudy Gay.

    My first instinct is just to take that deal and dump his awful contract, but I agree that we could probably get more for him. Would piss me off to trade him for what is obviously less than we gave up as well.

    • If we get a first round pick in return for Gay than thats more than we gave up for him. We gave up Ed Davis who will get a serious raise a year from now and a second round pick.

      Jose is an expiring just like Stuckey and Charlie.

      But obviously we need Knight or a 1st from Det.

      • How is Davis going to get a serious raise if he never sees the court? lol

        • D. Arthur was just traded making Ed the primary backup 4 and Kosta the primary C. As a restricted free agent he will get a raise. If Taj Gibson makes 8 so will ED.

  4. The 8th seed chasers will not be pleased with this.

    Not sure how Ujiri can pass on this if it’s true as it basically prevents him from wasting an extra season on tearing this team down. As you pointed out, he can start the rebuild next summer with the draft and the new found cap space this trade would facilitate instead of waiting until 2015 to get out from under this Gay deal.

    I don’t know about you guys but the fact that something like this is even being reported by two very credible reporters tells me what Ujiri’s plan is. Everything burns.

    I can only assume a Lowry trade would follow.

    • It’s basically Amir and jv stay everyone else goes right?

    • Raps have tried for the past decade to skip the true rebuild with instant gratification trades (JO, Gay, Lowry) and signings (Kapono, Fields, Hedu ext.) instead of building through the draft (Hafa over Iggy and Graham over Granger still sting but incompetence is no excuse). Can’t we learn anything from our past mistakes and finally rebuild through the draft and start in the year where Wiggins is the STUD.

      Yes in doing this we will not make the 8 seed but who wants to lose in 4 games to the heat anyways. Let the rebuild begin with a 25% chance of winning the lotto!!!!!

      BC is a false prophet… Let us all bow down to the Messiah!

      • I want to lose in 4 games to the Heat. A chance to see Lebron in the playoffs in Canada?? Fuck yeah!!

    • I don’t think trading Lowry is really necessary, even if we choose the “Tank for Wiggins” route. Obviously, if Ujiri sees a trade that is heavily our favour, I wont be upset if we lose him. But Lowry isn’t good enough yet to get in the way of us tanking and he’s a promising young PG that would benefit greatly from a year of this being “his” team to control on the court. I’d like to see us focus on building some chemistry between Lowry and Amir/Valanciunus next year. If we do that, and we get rid of DD and/or Rudy, I’m confident our team will be bad enough to get a high pick and we wont completely waste the season from a development standpoint. If we get rid of Lowry, Val will have a much harder time developing his pick and roll game.

      • I loved Lowry in Memphis, H-Town, and his first week in Toronto. Since then the constant distractions surrounding him are not what this team needs. Im much rather keep DD than Lowry.

        You do raise a very very valid point about the pick and roll with Jonas however Lowry is a free agent after the 2013/2014 year and he is far to injury prone to be worth an extension that he would sign. Also if we trade Gay (Lowry’s best friend) im not sure how happy the guy would be.

    • I agree with your point of trading Lowry… personally, not a fan of his. He makes some really poor decisions, especially at critical times of the game. He probably thinks of himself a little too highly (ie: a game-changer), but he’s not. Lowry to me, is a great back-up PG but not a starter. Not in T.O, not anywhere.

  5. Pistons are going to have to throw in multiple draft picks and at least 1 first rder for the massiah to seriously consider this. Otherwise, it defitely has some appeal on its own. However, i would definitely wait a bit because pistons will likely get more desperate if/when they miss out on jsmoove and iggy. I think they are the most likely trading partner for gay though since i dont see any other teams wanting him at that price.

  6. Would there be picks involved in this deal if it were to go down? Hoarding some future picks may not be a bad idea, especially because there will be nothing from this deal on the roster past this coming season (besides whoever is picked up with the available cap space).

  7. To be honest, a tank is not what this team needs right now. This franchise needs some life in it, if it’s a 6th seed in the East, whatever, so be it. The fanbase has sat around too long with Colangelo’s promises of “maybe next year.”

    If Ujiri can rob the Knick’s blind twice in a row, then I’m sure he can find a suitable deal for Rudy that doesn’t involve sending Toronto to the gutter again.

    That being said, while Rudy has one of the worst contracts in the NBA, I’d still like to see what this team could do next season.

  8. I rather just get some 1st round picks than getting Stuckey and Charlie V..but i think having Rudy Gay in the team really helped DD last season..and i think that partnership will grow this season and about Andrew Wiggins, he will be a phenomenal franchise player to any teams that picked him but tanking is not the way to go

  9. @JosephCasciaro: So many teams are going to be tanking next season that at least one tanking team will probably make the playoffs. ALL of the LOLs…

    • By the way there are only 6 teams that will win the title next year anyways

      • Lets see there is philly, boston, orlando, potentially the hawks, bobcats bucks, potentially even portland… thats 7 teams already most in our conference and some in our own division. like honestly why not just keep the team together and if you really wanna tank legit sit most of the starters out. Go in the back room and tell some people to start faking injuries for this ridiculousness

  10. Eastern conference team list in Power rankings 1. Heat 2. Pacers 3.nets 4,bulls 5.knicks 6 -15 who the hell knows

    • Me thinks we got a retard on our hands, okc? spurs? and how about golden state?

      • Pword – Why don’t you go to Vegas and put money on OKC or the Spurs for Eastern Conference champions? Or just take a minute to re-read Derp’s post before making such a fool of yourself.

    • Knicks with Bargs should lower their power ranking to barely making the playoffs…..

  11. An all-out tank would be worth it for 2014, but I’m going to die a little on the inside if I have to watch the likes of CV and Stuckey in Raptors jerseys for a full season.

  12. no way Gay is traded after being brought to toronto as the new ‘franchise player’. I’ve said it a thousand times, this team just needs new bench players… Steve Novak was a good start, always exciting to watch a 3 point threat on the floor, think back Dell Curry / Jason Kapono days… looks build up that bench… leave the starting 5 alone.

    and why does everyone hate DD? The guy lives and breathes Toronto despite being from the west coast. he wants to bring this team to the playoffs so badly, he is the type of player every fan should love…

    • DD just doesn’t have the right skillset to be a dominant player in the NBA. He’s not quite quick enough to guarantee penetration when he has the ball, and he doesn’t have a good enough jump shot to make teams pay for playing off him. And he’s not a good enough defender to justify that (although I think he’s pretty good in his own right).

      Now, there’s no reason why that second one has to be the way it is – VC developed a three-pointer two years into his career – but DD has made no sign that he wants to improve that aspect of his game.

      • I dont understand if people on this blog actually watch raptor games. DD was the FOURTH best scoring SG in the NBA last season. And got to the line 5.2 times per game. How can you say he’s not quick enough? Yea, maybe when compared to Kobe / James Harden, but DD is a 2nd option… He also is money on his mid-rangers.. The only thing missing from his game is his 3 pointer which he is working on. FYI, LBJ didn’t start making his until the last few years…

        • @DB–

          You’re wasting your time man. Most of the ppl on this blog expect everything out of a guy making only $10 mil a year. Yes he has his flaws but he’s a good player, and gets hated on way too much on here. We love to hate on the players that don’t wanna be here, and don’t appreciate when a guy like DD (who knew pretty much nothing about T.O & Canada when he was drafted) embraces the city, fans and displays a genuine desire to get this team where we all want it to be. I’m not saying that should make people turn a blind eye to his flaws, but the amount of ridiculous garbage written about Derozan on here makes me sick..and there’s been a lot of it.

          • Agree with you 100%. Derozan’s only getting better, year-by-year and his contract is reasonable. He’s basically putting up Rudy Gay-like numbers without such an inflated contract. I like the current combination of Gay-Derozan, and even Gay’s admitted that Demar’s one of the (if not the best) two-guards he’s ever run with. That’s a big compliment. Like you, I don’t understand people hating on DD, he’s a solid SG who’s only going to get better and at his price he’s a steal! Granted two seasons ago, he was REALLY forcing his 3-point game and unfortunately it was going for him but that only means there’s room for his game to grow and continue to improve.

            I hope Ujiri keeps them together along with VC and Amir. T.Ross’ potential is huge, but we’ll have to wait it out to see what he pans out to be. The rest can be moved as far as I’m concerned. #notanking

          • I want to win man.

            I could care less if Demar loves it here and is trying to improve his game.

            Has it led to wins? Is he the type of player that affects wiinning? Imho he does not, so move on. Build around young players that influence the game and get you wins, not guys who drop 16-18 hollow points a game and you are still a lottery team.

            In the NBA today you build around youngsters and move forward (paying them and then complimenting with veterans) once your core of talent is truly good enough to win.

            BC tricked way too many fans into thinking every draft pick he made was now part of the core and nucleus of a winning team going forward when in reality they only had 1 winning season under his tenure.

        • I agree with you Duke and MN.

          He’s been improving every year and he’s only, what, 23/24?

          Why not keep a young guy who is improving, who will be an asset and loves the city and team.

          I don’t understand why people let contracts depict the value and talent of someone. In my opinion, every NBA player is overpaid. That and I would like to meet the person who would turn down a contract because it might be a little too high for them.

    • Sigh. DD might be a great guy and all but he is a MEDIOCRE basketball player. You say he has improved every year? Thats BS. Just saw his minutes and ppg increase with more shots.The guy doesnt contibute to winning in any other way other than scoring. Most of his scoring does come from mid range jump shots and good defenders eat him up. Like guys, enough of sucking off dd. He was coddled (like primo) by this franchise and he just isnt that good.

      • Mediocre???? Man, I can’t wait for the new season. Gay / DD are going to make you eat your words. DD had the best defensive player covering him before Gay… was still putting up numbers, now he doesn’t have to deal with that… Lance Stepheson / Tony Allen / Hinrich / Belinelli, etc…. those guys are mediocre… how you can even say DD is mediocre is beyond words.

  13. Stuckey would be a perfect point guard for Toronto. He learned from detroits vet team and stepped up when billups left. looks like a nice young line up for a year

  14. i think if some way t.o can get detriots 1st rnd pick aswell id do it and pull the trigger . i dont wanna wat two yrs for the team to shape up . doing this now is pushin the fast forward button . there are alot of bg name free agents next yr . can always go sign a better SF for less then gays contract in the off season . trade him and let ross begin to blossom . bring charlie home hahah !

    • Chuck just last night you bashed this exact trade I posted on the most recent Bargnani article. Now after a good night sleep you’re on board?? What has changed in 12 hours?

  15. even if the deal is done i still think the team is competitive . no grown men come into the traning camp and say lets tank th yr . with barny gone now and his agent (BC) the team will play tough d . stucky cant hurt the pg position and charlie might feel at home . idk im just saying i still see quality and talent on the floor . im hoping t.o can maybe envolve klieza into the trade and send him off aswelll . time will tell

    • You clearly didn’t watch any pistons games last year…..there’s a reason they have one of the worst attendances in the league

  16. this teams a joke

  17. If your going tank tank properly. Just a straight salary dump for rudy gay makes no sense considering he is still a pretty productive player. I don’t care what people say. I am not against getting value contracts or assets in return (draft picks) but those they aren’t even really adding any draft picks and I have no interest in seeing CV back here or rodney stuckey. We may as well just wait for gay to look for more money next year in free agency and opt out if we are just looking for cap relief. I would ask for monroe back cause JV+ Monroe in the front court would be unreal. or Drummond or something. We dont need any more stiffs. We could have kept Bargs if that was the case. If this trade goes down at least as it has currently been represented by the media I will at least temporarily watch another team this up coming season.

    I think there are better trades to make than that. Look at what houston did they stock piled draft picks and then used that to make a run at assets like Harden. (technically with our pick). Now they have a chance to get dwight and if they do they would be unreal.

    Build a system get into the play offs don’t try to out tank the other 9 teams trying to tank right now. If its such a deep draft we should get draft picks or just let Masai do his thing and pick up another kenneth faried type guy. This is a move BC would have made.

    To behonest if we get the 5th seed, which is possible, in the playoffs we can possibly make it out ofthe 1st round or at the very least prove to the fans that we are actually competitive and take who ever we face to 6-7 games. If we take the pacers we can take em, we did this past year. The nets are old so forget them and lopez cant rebound like JV can so we can beat em with everyone healthy. Knicks have no one on defence cept melo and chandler but I think we can beat the Knicks.

    • “To behonest if we get the 5th seed, which is possible, in the playoffs we can possibly make it out ofthe 1st round or at the very least prove to the fans that we are actually competitive and take who ever we face to 6-7 games. ”

      The goal of this team has to be to win a championship, not to MAYBE win a first round series if everything in the world breaks right.

      Anyway, they’re unlikely to beat Miami, Chicago, the Knicks, or the Nets in the playoffs, and if you didn’t think that Indiana looked like a completely different team come playoff time I don’t know what you were watching. That team is made for the playoffs.

      • We have good enough wing players to give most of the teams in the NBA trouble. They had 30 games to mesh together. My point is if you are going to tank, then tank properly. Don’t half @ss it if Masai can get 3 picks for andrea i’m pretty sure he can get a much better trade for rudy. Trade for the suns 1st rounder or something better than this offer cause this is just disgusting

        • “We have good enough wing players to give most of the teams in the NBA trouble. ”

          All that gets you is a 4-1 playoff loss, unfortunately. We don’t have enough good players to beat the best teams on anything approaching a consistent basis – and that’s with a better home crowd than 2/3rds of the league.

          • @Stephen you still haven’t explained what exactly isn’t half efforted about this trade. Ryan.W just tweeted that Masai said no to the low ball offer anyways so this is a mute point. I am not against trading Rudy. I am against trading him for nothing. Opening up cap space doesn’t really help us much because if we cant attract free agents by winning and we lose out on wiggins or any of the other 4 players who are decent in the draft then where does that leave us. Cap space doesn’t do much if you are unable to use it correctly. Additionally, your all for this “tanking” and dumping assets and yet your HAPPY getting nothing in return. Fine trade away DD and Rudy and everyone but JV but get Draft picks in return.

  18. do not take this trade there is only a 25 percent chance u get to draft wiggins anyways. that’s not high enough odds for me. I would rather they keep gay and try and make the playoffs. wiggins could be a bust anyways with the raps luck that’s how it would turn out. I at least with gay the raps would make the playoffs and they could maybe pull some upsets. I would not be surprised if they took down the heat in 6 games.

    • “I would not be surprised if they took down the heat in 6 games.”

      Yes, because they’ve had so much success against Miami in the past three years.

      • Stephen: “Anyway, they’re unlikely to beat Miami, Chicago, the Knicks…”

        Raps can beat the Knicks. Any one can beat the Knicks. The Knicks can beat the Knicks without another team on the court #punchingglass #laceratedhands lol

  19. Is Terrence Ross untouchable?

    • Depending on the route they’re going to take, I think they’ll probably trade 1 or 2 of Gay, DeMar, and Ross. None of them are untouchable – who gets traded would be determined by the quality of the deals on the table. (At least that’s my take on it.)

    • He shouldn’t be. H

      e’s on a rookie deal which is good and he is a decent 3pt shooter. If as a GM you projected him to be a good defender I would keep him, but if not, use him as a trade asset.

      He’s a 2 guard with no handles.

  20. I’m fine with the trade in principle, but a LOT of things have to go right for this to work. They need to get a high lottery pick (given Boston and others even more aggressive tanking strategy, that’s far from guaranteed), and cap space doesn’t make much of a difference if there’s no one who wants to play here – which, unfortunately, is going to be the case for a lot of American-born players.

    (It’s funny, they showed the clips of Steve Francis during the draft and I remember being baffled at how he was so scared to play for Vancouver. Now I at least understand that level of ignorance.)

  21. Holy crap man, I haven’t spent much time reading the comments on here before, but this is actually a haven for the sad and stupid. With the exception of a few, I question whether most of you are in touch with reality, or have even watched a basketball game.

  22. ‘Tank for Wiggins’ has been written a lot on here. Do you morons actually understand that, even if this team does decide to tank (which I think would be stupid), the chances of getting Wiggins is small anyway? We’d have to finish at the bottom of the entire league, which is no guarantee especially seeing what other teams are trying to do this year. Then we’d have to win the #1 pick, which is a fuckin lottery. Then we’d have to hope that Wiggins or Parker or whoever else we draft, is gonna transition into an NBA superstar. You guys make it sound so simple but it’s far from that. So many things need to fall in place and go right for that whole tank scenario to work out. And what happens if it fails? We’re stuck at the bottom again and we just sign a superstar in free agency that wants to play for a shitty team? LOL give your heads a shake.

    • Take a bow you win the comments section today… These are my thoughts exactly. It surprises me how many people (and the blog author no less) are using this tanking for Wiggins ‘logic’ when talking about this offseason.

      Should we trade Rudy Gay for picks AND young assets that would make this team better, now and in the future? Sure, if the right deal comes along do it. But should we trade him for nothing with the sole purpose of being a shittier team next year? C’monnnnn man, shit is just dumb…

    • Well said Duke.

    • I agree with you …. tanking gives us no promise of drafting Wiggins … even trading Gay for cap space is risky given star players are reluctant to sign with bad teams.

      As a fan it would suck to watch another poor season hoping that we get a high pick.

    • I agree.

      I also think the risk of purposely tanking is too high. If it doesn’t pan out, then it’s just more seasons bumbling in the bottom.

      Ujiri also just came from a team that he more or less built without a legitimate superstar and as you all know, had success.

      • ESPN referenced a projection that the 2014 draft is so loaded, it contains 8 potential all-stars. We’re not talking about the 2006 draft here, we’re talking about 2003-calibre. You could land the 6th or 7th pick and still get a player with a higher ceiling than anyone on this roster. That would be the reason for tanking this season.

    • Who said anything about tanking for Wiggins?

      This is called rebuilding. Getting rid of bloated contracts of players who don’t provde value (wins) for the money they are getting paid is rebuilding.

      Supplanting these bloated deals with players (young players on rookie deals) you get to develop from the start of their careers and fiscally control over the next 7 years is the ideal way to construct your team properly.

      Paying Gay 19 mil a season and now calling him a franchsise guy, doesn’t make it so.

      Paying Demar 10million and being grateful he likes the city also doesn’t make you a winner.

    • Chances of winning, or getting close to winning a title without a star player? Slim to none.

      Chances of landing a star player outside of the draft? Even more slim.

  23. Don’t we already have a stud to build a team around? (JV) I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again…..We need a big to play behind JV not named Aaron Gray, we need a competent backup point guard, and we need to trade one of either Gay or Derozan. Tanking at this point seems like a waste.

    • As much as I liked everything Jonas showed in his rookie season, how certain are we that he is going to be a franchise player a few years down the line? From what I saw last season, I don’t know if he’ll ever be that type of player you build a franchise around. I’m not saying he was bad or anything close to that, I just didn’t see enough from him to conclude that he’s the “one” we should be building around.

      • He’ll be 10 times better than Chris Bosh and no one had a problem building around him.

        • Plenty of people had problems building around Chris Bosh, including Colangelo. “Is Chris Bosh really a #1 guy?” was pretty much THE blogging narrative during his tenure in Raptorland – where were you?

          Jonas is absolutely NOT a championship-calibre #1 player.

          • I don’t know how you can say that, but time will tell. He looked pretty good matching up against guys like Hibbert and Chandler in his rookie year. He also had better rookie numbers than Noah and Chandler. I don’t know what’s not to love about the guy at this point.

          • How do you know? Other than foul trouble (which is a given when you’re a rookie), I’ve seen nothing but positive. The biggest problem with Bosh & Bargnani, and building around them, is that they’re soft n fake-big men that can’t rebound or play very good help D. Also inconsistent scorers.

            JV is a 20 yr old rookie who wasn’t afraid to throw his slim frame around with the biggest, toughest guys in the NBA. He played some of the best other Cs in the league TOUGH. If it wasn`t for Casey and Colangelo giving his minutes away to f`n Aaron Gray, he would have put up even better numbers. His offensive game is polished for a rookie big man, he`s naturally slim with long arms (fuckin 7`4 wingspan) and he`s got wide shoulders which is a good recipe to become a beast if he bulks up.

            Why wouldn`t he be a potential star piece…

          • Hibbert, Chandler, and Noah? These guys are key pieces, but not #1 players on championship teams (which somebody said JV could be). I would absolutely put his ceiling at the Hibbert/Chandler/Noah level, but nobody ever said “We’re going to build a championship team around Tyson Chandler!” Guys like that are added to star players like Nowitzki, Carmelo, and Derrick Rose – not the other way around. This is the argument for tanking for 2014.

          • @SR

            Funny how 2 out of the 3 guys you said are the type of players to build around, haven’t even made it to the Finals. I’m not gonna really count D-Rose cause he’s young and been injured (plus I’d take him over any of the current Raptors) but if a championship is the goal, your examples prove that nothing is guaranteed. Yet you wanna tank on the very small hope that you can get one of those players, which will mean a bad team for years, with no real hope of attracting any FA’s any time soon.

            Also you named shooters. What about guys like David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol? I’m not saying JV is gonna be as good, but we won’t know til we see what he has. The potential is there, and it’s not a sure-thing just like tanking and praying. Tje only problem with tanking is that there’s much more to lose if it turns into a disaster.

          • Chandler & Noah are bad comparisons. JV has a more polished o-game than both of those players even now. TC gets a huge chunk of his points off alley-oops, and Noah’s game at the offensive end was ugly and pretty brutal up until the last 1-2 years.

          • You’re so knowledgeable yet you make claims you can’t support with facts or evidence. You talk big, but that’s easy to do behind a computer screen. You just sound like an immature, condescending prick who’s probably pushed around in his ‘real life’ and has to take it out on ppl here. Loser

        • 10 times better than Chris Bosh? LOL. You mean 8 time all-star Chris Bosh?


          It’s true. There have been some outlandish comments on this board today.

          • @Duke – JV has the potential to be as good as Tim Duncan or David Robinson? You mean Tim “The Greatest PF of All-time” Duncan and David “I took the Spurs from 21-61 to 56-26 as an NBA rookie” Robinson? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

            I like JV quite a bit, but this level of optimism is out of line. This team is not ready to go ahead and build a championship team around Jonas Valanciunas. MUCH more talent is needed.

          • @SR

            Easy buddy, I said the potential is there to be great, not that he’s gonna be as good as one or either of those guys. I was referencing the similar playing styles. Traditional post players. If you can’t see the potential for JV to be great then you obviously don’t know much about basketball. There’s a reason why pretty much everyone (including people in the NBA) would agree he’s untouchable. But you apparently know better than everyone else, right? It’s easy to just say someone isn’t good enough, but you haven’t brought up ONE single point to your claim. Unlike you, I’ve backed up my reasons so I don’t need to keep arguing with someone so ignorant.

          • I certainly know more than you, which admittedly is a bit of a hollow victory. Still, I’ll take it.

            Sure you aren’t really comparing Val to Robinson and Duncan, you’re just, well, comparing them side-by-side in the same paragraph and saying things like “the potential is there.” You’re right – that’s not a comparison at all. I know you really just meant they’re bigs with similar playing styles…whoops, slipping into a comparison there. My bad.

            I like Val, but I stick with the only thing I’ve been claiming here – he’s not a #1 guy on a championship team, which has been ridiculously asserted by previous comments as an argument against tanking (there are many reasons not to tank, there’s no need to make stuff up). He’s a nice building block who’s going to need higher calibre teammates than this roster currently contains for this team to be significant – hence the enthusiasm for tanking for a GREAT 2014 draft.

  24. We should trade Demar. I love the guy, but isn’t Terrence Ross better and younger? He’s more explosive at the rim, and he can shoot three. We could get a nice piece in return for DD.

    • Uhh not quite yet he isn’t. DeRozan seems to have some chemistry with Gay I wouldn’t trade him just yet. As for tanking, I believe they put in this thing called a lottery to void those plans, we could finish 5-77 and still not get Wiggins.

    • T Ross can shoot the 3 but he isn’t better. He can’t pull up and shoot, plays terrible team defense, and has can’t penetrate. He also was the only rookie who might have got worse as the season got along. JV and Acy all improved a ton from the start…can u say the same about Ross?

      Yes he’s a great athlete….but the league is full of those. DD is a better basketball player by far at this point.

      • I think playing time has a lot to do with that. There were too many stretches last season where Ross rarely played and lacked confidence. Demar was handed the starting job as soon as he got here. If that was the case with Ross, just imagine the type of player he would be going into next year.

    • Im not crazy about either player, tho be honest. Not much upside there.

  25. It really is simple. If your a fan who is okay with mediocrity and finishing in 8th place then your against this trade. If your a fan who wants to see this team become a contender down the road? Then this trade is a necessity to shed cap space and start what Colangelo never had the balls to do, A TOTAL REBUILD. Do I agree that the raps can get more out of this trade? Yes. Is Rudy Gay a good player? Yes. but this team needs to be stripped down and built back up.

    • What if they tank and don’t end up getting a franchise player? Then you just gave up a shitload of talent that you spent years acquiring.

      • Exactly. The average fan just doesn’t understand that it’s not that simple. There’s so much chance and dumb luck that needs to go your way, it’s a huge risk. Especially considering the fact that this team is a good backup pg and veteran big man away from possibly becoming a 5-6 seed next year. And for the record, I think we’d have a pretty damn good chance against the Knicks and Pacers in a playoff series. Add that to the fact that Brooklyn is built to win in the next year or 2 (and then they’ll be in a complete rebuild), D-Rose is a huge question mark, and the Raps chances don’t look that bad considering all the young talent we have.

        • Do you realize that this roster just missed the playoffs in a conference that only required a .500 record to make the first round?

          I like this team as a fan, but don’t be complete homers about this roster’s ceiling. It’s not very high.

          “What if we tank and don’t land Wiggins?” What if we don’t tank and spend the next 5 seasons accomplishing the same thing that this franchise has always accomplished sans-Vince Carter? A 75% chance of missing the playoffs, with the remaining 25% equating a hasty first-round exit.

          How many decades of mediocrity do you guys need before you realize that the only basketball success this city has ever experienced was during the few years it actually had a legitimate franchise player, whom it acquired through the draft?

          • Yes, and I’ve also noticed the fact we had one of the better starting 5′s in the league. Our bench was pretty brutal and inconsistent. We were 26th (I think) in 3pt shooting last year, we just picked up Novak which is a plus and he’ll create more room for our wings. I think with a couple good pickups this offseason, we could be right up there in the top 5-6 of the East. Playoffs attract more FA’s and this team is young. I don’t think tanking is the right decision now. I wanna see how Jonas develops with the guys around him and think he’s our piece to build around.

  26. I’m not a big Rudy Gay fan, but I’ll admit I was eager to see what he and DD can do in a full season.

    If they both work on their 3′s, they are tough to guard.

    Then, add in a legitimate 3pt shooter in Novak that teams must respect defensively and two bigs in Amir and JV who you can always count on to work on the glass… I’ll admit I’m excited to see how that would pan out.

    (I know that’s not a real line-up, just saying)

  27. I can’t see JV turning into a superstar, but if he can solidify the position averaging a double double I’d be happy with that. As far as DD goes, great person, actually wants to be here, but his 3 point shooting is non existent. Not a big enoug reason to trade him alone. I believe Terrence Ross’s development will happen faster then DD. But if Casey struggles with giving the right players minutes it’s going to be hard for him to grow

  28. Let me make this clear: The ONLY and I mean ONLY untouchable player on this roster is JV. Fuck dd. Fuck ross. Theyre mediocre basketball players with no all star upside. I like lowry and gay but if were tanking, see ya.

  29. No way in hell Ujiri takes this shite trade. He’ll counter with either a demand for draft picks or for someone like Brandon Knight who’s on a rookie contract. Rudy’s overpaid but he’s still a serious asset. People on this board make too much of his contract. There’s no way Ujiri lets him go just for expiring contracts, a backup PG, and a few more balls in the Wiggins lottery. He’ll want actual assets in return.

  30. Chris Broussard is tweeting that the Raptors are not interested in moving Gay….

    • Looks like Ujiri likes the talent on his team and maybe he thinks that tanking is not all that smart after all. Who’s the “homer” now? lol

      • WOW! here we come 7th placeeeeeeee, hold on to your hats everyone its gonna be a fun 40-42 year. At the end of the day success is measured by championships and this team will not win anything. Rudy Gay is a great player but he’s not gonna win us anything. Eduacated fan or average fan everyone can admit that.


      • Sly – Your the “homer” lol. Any time you need a reminder, just read your own comments.

  31. Our starting 5 is pretty damb good. Am I the only one who wants to see Rudy Gay for an entire season? He’s a star player. Jv is going to be a star. Fuck the draft.

    • will it win a title? simple question.

      • Will tanking this year win us a title in 2…4…6…8..even 10 years? Simple question.

        • it could, now answer my question educated raptors fan

        • I say either way we go, it will be extremely hard to win a title. That being said, I’d rather keep the team we have and build off that. Win some ball games, make the playoffs. As a fan, is that too much to ask for at this point? You guys are all dreaming if you think tanking will bring us a championship. How many other teams are thinking the same thing?

          • this tanking argument is the stupidest thing in the world. JV will be a double-double monster next year, DD / Gay are going to run circles around people. KL / AJ will be aggressive… you’re not a championship team until you win a championship… that argument is silly. I do believe that the raps are two good bench players away from being a contender.

  32. If we got three picks for Andrea Bargnani, surely we can get something more than Villanueva and Stuckey for Gay.

  33. 101 comments on this topic – now that’s some good toilet reading material!

    • LOL

      Trade Rudy yes, but he’s more than just a large contract. He’s a 10mil/yr talent getting paid 20. We should at least get something back of equal value to his contract, aka draft picks from a shit team.

  34. Pass on the offer, unless some serious 1st rounders are included. Let’s first see how this starting 5, especially Gay and Lowry, do together with a real training camp under their belt. Tanking is no guarantee. Too many bad teams right now, can try to tank on purpose and end up with the 7th or 8th pick even. Tanking is a terrible idea.

  35. For all the comments talking about only going after Wiggins, and that we only have a 25% chance of getting him, so it’s not worth it…

    Might want to get up to date on the 2014 draft. There’s A LOT more players than just Wiggins that are worth tanking for….

    • Agreed, Wiggins is just the crown jewel.

      Jabari Parker, Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Andrew Harrison, James Young or even Glenn Robinson III would be great additions to the team.

      The reality is, the Wiggins point is the only thing the “strive for mediocrity” morons have to make their misguided anti-tanking stance when the team will still benefit from merely drafting in the Top 10. Kind of ironic that the people who want a quick fix are the ones propping up this quick fix/Wiggins straw man and knocking it down as if any one who wants to tank believes that Wiggins will immediately solve all our problems when it would just be a great first step.

      • There’s actually a very good chance of drafting better talent than this team currently employs, and getting that talent on a rookie-scale contract rather than paying for the most expensive non-all-star in the entire NBA. I’d be anti-tanking most years, but this is a GREAT draft and the Raptors are at a natural crossroads. It’s a great time to tear-down and rebuild.

        • yeah, too bad all of those guys except Toronto’s own Wiggins would likely bolt after 4 years and be on a totally different team by the time they are difference-makers. Tanking is a horrible idea. The team we have right now, with some vets added for the bench, is probably an Eastern Conference playoff team. We’ve barely sniffed playoffs in the franchise’s entire existence. I’ll take playoffs over a 4 year rent a player who bolts at 23 years old, thank you very much.

          • Would they bolt like all those high profile 2003 picks bolted small/lower profile markets? You know, the way Lebron bolted Cleveland, Carmello bolted Denver, and Bosh bolted Toronto? Oh, wait a minute, those guys all re-signed and gave their drafting teams a solid 7 years to work with them. But aside from, you know – facts, you’ve got a great point! Keep it up!

  36. Where did all these clowns come from all of a sudden?
    Go back to your shanties

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