On today’s NBA Playoff Fix, Skeets and Tas return from the cottage to try and wrap their heads around that insane #THUNDERMAVS Game 4. Seriously. Did that really happen? How in the world did that happen? Who’s to blame for that happening? Am I still in the hot tub? Who’s drink is this? Can I have that? Cool. All that, plus Jason Terry’s “self-righteousness,” Joakim Noah’s $50K fine, and Dirk’s destiny.

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Comments (29)

  1. According to the NBA, “Kobe’s fine included included discipline for verbal abuse of a game official.”

    Maybe it’s just a justification from the league, but if you take it at face value, the precedent is now 50K for slurs and 50K for verbally berating a ref, I guess meaning if Kobe had called the ref some term that wasn’t culturally or racially offensive, he would have still been fined 50K. We’ll see if they continue the precedent.

  2. you guys felt more depressed in this video than KD at yesterday’s press coverage

  3. also for the fine issue,
    by making it proportional to salary it doesn’t make it any less impactful, it just makes it fair for all players. 100k $ doesn t represent the same to kobe than some players who makes the absolute minimum of 473,604$. by fining based on a precentage of salary, you institute a system where everyone is impacted the same for any violation

  4. proportional fines…like speeding tickets in finland – they take into account how much money you make, and fine you based on that!

  5. Actually you don’t jay, if you lose 2% of your income if your getting the minimum, this still hits you harder then losing 2% if your a max guy when you still got way too much to spend.
    Think taxes….

  6. I’m with Michi — % fines are the same pitch as Steve Forbes’ flat tax: great for the super-rich and shitty for anyone else.

    As for Russ: it’s not that he isn’t making shots, which is unfortunate but understandable, it’s all the stupid decisions he makes, on both offense and defense. I didn’t notice it that much in the playoffs until this series, when we get to contrast his decision-making with Kidd’s, and realize that his b-ball IQ is horrendous.

  7. Terry is an idiot, big ass forehead. Noah situation different, bitch ass fan provoked him. Kobe was just throwing a tantrum. Stop being drunk Skeets. We survived the rapture! -_-

  8. Dreamed that I was watching TBJ and that there was no quote or whoa-boy. Thank god that was just a dream. Dirk had 40 on 20 though.

  9. Yeah, I’m good with the difference in fines. First, I’m sure the fan was a provoking idiot. Second, refs need players’ respect to function, and fines for disrespect put them on solid ground and let them do their job.

  10. Oriental is a dated term and rarely, if ever, used anymore.

  11. You guys mention how Westbrook is really struggling shooting the ball outside, while not saying anything about Durant. If you’re going to call out a player for something like that, at least make sure you do it for both guys.

    Outside of 15 feet in this series (via hoopdata):

    Kevin Durant – 11/44 = 25%
    Russell Westbrook – 8/27 = 30%

    Everyone is picking on Westbrook while giving Durant a pass. If we’re talking about bad jump shots, we’re talking about both these guys. Durant is far more of an issue because he’s taking 60% more of these crappy shots.

  12. Definitely, T-Car. After Harden went out last night, Durant was 0-for-6 and 5 of those shots were from 3-point land.

  13. You miss the point on the fine. It isn’t that fans are subhuman, it’s that refs are almost godlike. You get fined for saying almost anything about a ref, doesn’t have to be profane or politically incorrect.

  14. Skeets saying “atrocious” = happy me

  15. Come on guys! There’s nothing wrong with taking into account the circumstances of some wrongdoing when establishing a punishment. It’s obviously worse to use an off limits word to an official who doesn’t do anything to insult you personally than to use it on someone who goes out of his way to provoke you and tell you what type of woman your mom is (if you don’t believe this, imagine similar situations in a pickup game: who’s more of an asshole; the guy who calls his teammate a f*ing f*ot for not passing him the ball or the guy who calls someone on the other team the same thing for viciously insulting him? You can’t tell me the second guy did just as wrong as the first; he has an understandable reason for doing something bad, the first one doesn’t).

    Plus, the “human being” critique is misguided. Calling someone a f*ot gets punished not because it’s offensive to the insultee, but because it’s offensive in general. Noah could have insulted a chair in the stands and hopefully still would have been fined. If it had only been 50.000, that wouldn’t mean the chair was regarded only half as human as a referee by the NBA.

  16. Kobe got fined more because the ref wasn’t talking trash to Kobe. Like you guys said, “no one knows what the fan said to Joakim.” They both deserve a fine, but I understand the difference in fines…

  17. Hoping that boat accident wasn’t as bad as you made it sound like.

  18. This fine thing is a tough issue. I keep flip flopping. I hear what people are saying about the fact that the referee didn’t insult Kobe, but the fan insulted Noah.

    But, I might argue that it’s actually more important for the players to treat the fans with respect than it is the officials. It’s too bad that fans act like such assholes. But, without them being there and feeling safe, we don’t have a league.

    I’m not trying to compare what Noah said to the brawl at the palace, but that’s how it starts. Players just need to block that shit out.

  19. Alright, for the 1st time you guys are really annoying me: who cares what kind of slur is used to insult someone?

    Go and read the comments on Kerby’s post about the Noah story.
    One of them basically says “how is faggot any wronger than son of a bitch”?
    ‘cuz there also might be some s.o.b. out there that takes offense, you know.

    In the end, an insult is an insult, what kind it is doesn’t really matter, depending on context.

    I mean, even the word “nigger” (yeah, no N-word, here, it’s just a word) in french (“nègre”) applies to two things: a racial slur, or, when in context, a man who writes someone else’s book instead of him. And in spanish, “negro” means black as a color, and as a color of skin.

    In the end, french-speaking people just end up refering to black people as “black (in english, instead of “noir”, which means black in french but somehow got offensive), because, for some reason, it sounds more respectful to them.

    To go even further, the word “secretary” has become to be known as demaeaning to women in that position. But it’s not the word that is demeaning, it’s the position. I mean: no one thinks “secretary of state” is demeaning, so then what?

    The important thing here is context: did Noah or Kobe think of the guy they insulted as a gay man? Prolly not. “Faggot” is just a great word to say (see: South Park “The F word”), like “son of a bitch”.

    In french, the main word for saying someone is stupid is “con”. It litterally means “vagina”, but no one ever uses this word to call someone a vagina, they call’em stupid is all….

    So, please guys, don’t go too PR on us… Please.

  20. So yeah, either you fine every single insult, even “dumb”, or don’t… Just don’t try to pretend it’s because it offends people…

    I mean, dumb people get offended too…

  21. sorry for the multi.post there, but nice “Dumb and Dumber” reference there (“Samson? Samsonite? I can’t remember…” or sumthin like that)

  22. @ Breyzh:

    I don’t know, of course, but I assume you’re neither black nor gay.

  23. Who is offended by the word secretary? Noah should have called that fan a secretary and really taught him a lesson

  24. There was a time not so long ago when this was the funniest thing anyone had ever heard:

    Thankfully, things are so much better now.

  25. you’re right finzent

    but I am sometimes stupid, and I don’t take offense when people call each other stupid… I’m french and swiss, and I sometimes take offense when people make fun of those countries. I wouldn’t be offended by someone calling Tony Parker a “frog” tho, and Sefolosha was nicknamed “the swiss-army knife” which doesn’t make any sense excpet that he’s swiss… There’s prejudice everywhere, so let’s relativize all that, all rght?

    Of course “the N-word” is different in america because of its history, but “faggot” is very different from it: it was first used to talk about wood (in fact, in french “fagot” means “pile of wood”), then old people, then women, then gay men… I mean, it’s a slur, how much meaning can it actually have besides what people attach to it?
    In the end, it’s about freedom of speech… You can’t say “freedom but”, not only because that sounds silly, but because it doesn’t make sense… You’re either free on all topics or on none.

    Of course there would be a difference if the guy said “let’s hang all those f***”, but that’s not what he said. I’m pretty sure Noah has nothing against gay men. His dad is one of the chillest bros in the world, so I’d think he’d thought him better.

    Plus erasing the name doesn’t erase the hate. It will just find another way to get through. In french, there had been so many words considered as offensive to arabs (some of them it makes sense, some it doesn’t) it’s getting ridiculous: “raton” (little rat), “melon” (…), “bronzé” (tan), rebeu (bara -> arab backwards), beur (bar, raba backwards, yeah, doesn’t make sense), … They have all become offensive, even ‘tho “beur” and “rebeu” are kind of self-applied names in the first place. Hell, even “arab” has become offensive, somehow, when referring to a french person of arab descent.
    There will always be racist slurs and gay slurs, banning them won’t ban the hate, ‘tho.

    context people, context


    nice one, but “secretary” isn’t a job anymore, because it was taught to be offending to women.

  26. In the UK faggot = cigarette.

    I agree with Breyzh in principle. Words are only there to convey ideas, it’s not about the “meaning” per se but the intent. I can’t say for sure but I would err on the fact that neither Kobe nor Noah ‘intended’ to insult the gay community by using the word, rather they were using it to needle back at those that had faulted them, be they refs or fans.

    That doesn’t make the use of the word “right”, but let’s not go overboard with political correctness either.

  27. Remember a few years back when the Raptors were in the playoffs… that’s not the whole question.

    2007 vs. the Nets and fans were urged to wear Red; the media and ‘fans’ slammed the franchise and Canada for this dumb move ’cause the entire crowd ended up wearing the same colour as the visiting team’s uniforms. Fast forward to Monday nights OKC/Mavs game and lo’ and behold the entire “Oklahoma City Arena” is dressed in perfect Mavs blue.

  28. Breyzh,
    I don’t see what the etymology of the word has to do with it. What matters is the current use of the word. I don’t see what translations of ‘negro’ (not ‘nigger’, by the way) into French or Spanish has to do with it. What matters is what someone says, not translations of what they say. I don’t see what freedom of speech has to do with it. Freedom of speech is the freedom to express our beliefs without interference from government. It’s not the freedom of people in private institutions to say whatever they want. Chuck E. Cheese isn’t infringing on its employees’ rights when it imposes penalties for shouting “fuck, shit, tits!” during an 8 year-old’s birthday party.

    I think the intent here is pretty simple, and you don’t need to get into any of these complicated topics. When you angrily call someone ‘faggot’, you’re using a word that standardly means gay (whether or not you had that in mind), and you’re using it to derogate the person. This suggests the speaker thinks calling someone gay is an insult (whether the person thinks this or not). If the league has decided they’re opposed to the association between gay and bad that this suggests, they’re entirely within their rights to prohibit it. What matters from the league’s point of view, and what should matter, is the effects these statements have, not whether the speaker is really homophobic. The policy leads to players apologizing, and clarifying that they’re not homophobic, and I’m glad kids watching are hearing that about their role models.

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